Fan Reaction to Destroyer

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Fan Reaction to Destroyer

Post by southernkiss » Sat May 23, 2020 5:38 pm

What do ya'll think turned off so many fans to Destroyer? Did the fans who disliked Destroyer come back around after RARO?

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Re: Fan Reaction to Destroyer

Post by Much Too Soon » Sat May 23, 2020 6:00 pm

I was 16 at the time. I was wondering why this album was not hitting. I loved it. My friends all loved it. I can’t hear anything that was a turn off. Solid playing and singing throughout. I still don’t get the angst. It’s a GREAT album and the songs live readily merged with songs played live from the previous 3 albums. The Destroyer tour was epic.
Last edited by Much Too Soon on Sat May 23, 2020 9:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Fan Reaction to Destroyer

Post by caligari » Sat May 23, 2020 6:03 pm

It was the orchestration & choirs.
Everything that was on the record that was
not GUITAR, BASS and DRUMS.

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Re: Fan Reaction to Destroyer

Post by jkiss » Sat May 23, 2020 6:18 pm

Fans that were former Alice Cooper ones were aware of Bob Ezrin's methods & just didn't like him having anything to do with KISS. They usually blamed him for the break-up of the AC original group. And also didn't like Bob turning KISS music into something much more comparable to what one would typically find on an Alice Cooper record. Plus, objections to what they believed to be other session musicians on the record.

I actually didn't care too much about what those fans thought; as that was too complex at the time to consider. And as I was still relatively a new fan at the time & still quite young n' naive. I did certainly hear about their objections to "Destroyer" & Bob's involvement. I enjoyed it for what it was or what I believed it all to be in that moment. Plus, glad I did or wouldn't have had any fun with it all & I had a lot of fun (probably more than should ever be allowed).

8)
Last edited by jkiss on Sun May 24, 2020 3:57 am, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: Fan Reaction to Destroyer

Post by Wichita77 » Sat May 23, 2020 6:19 pm

I was thrilled with Destroyer. I immediately accepted it as an evolution... the next step for the band who could now afford a producer like Ezrin to take it to the next level. I was a huge fan of Welcome to My Nightmare, so I was thrilled to see those two forces teaming up. I didn't see the falling off of the fan base some people talk about in my part of the world. More people came on board.

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Re: Fan Reaction to Destroyer

Post by Wet Willie » Sat May 23, 2020 6:21 pm

I didn't realise anybody hated Bob Ezrin or Destroyer until I came here...!!

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Re: Fan Reaction to Destroyer

Post by Tallbear13 » Sat May 23, 2020 9:06 pm

Yea Destroyer hate is real

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Re: Fan Reaction to Destroyer

Post by Elderguy » Sat May 23, 2020 9:43 pm

Tallbear13 wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 9:06 pm
Yea Destroyer hate is real
It really isn’t.

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Re: Fan Reaction to Destroyer

Post by steve » Sat May 23, 2020 9:51 pm

I was disappointed at first, because whoever sold it to my much younger self at Bank St Records in Adelaide put a Village People tape in the case by mistake. We were not amused.

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Re: Fan Reaction to Destroyer

Post by badmachineogm » Sat May 23, 2020 10:45 pm

As with everything KISS related, it’s important not to get caught up in revisionist thinking. The album, itself, the music, at the time - yes, I was there - was greeted more by confusion than revulsion, including Beth.

Destroyer marked the band’s transition from slightly dangerous, slightly sexy rock and roll “ghouls” to “super heroes.” Its cover announces that change most significantly. Anyone who jumped off the KISS bandwagon at that time likely did so because it quickly became overcrowded with kids, which KISS cultivated with even greater force in the months and years to come.

Rock’n’Roll Over and Love Gun followed in such rapid sequence that anyone feeling pissy or abandoned by Destroyer’s excesses and ambition quickly recovered. As has been expressed by many, including myself, on these pages: 1) whatever exodus was occurring was consequent to the b(r)and’s sudden erosion of “cool” and (2) was made up for in spades by the millions of new fans who came on board.

Today, Destroyer is the band’s ultimate irony: the record that sounds like none other in its catalogue, yet is most and best represented in the band’s live performances.

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Re: Fan Reaction to Destroyer

Post by KISS_BLOOD » Sat May 23, 2020 11:34 pm

The fans from the beginning felt Kiss abandoned their Raw heavier sound and thought Destroyer was too Polished and not what Kiss started out as with the first three albums and Alive.
Though many many fans such as myself thought it was still heavy enough and really loved it.Loved the new costumes and played the album over and over. Nothing beat the 70s era of KISS.

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Re: Fan Reaction to Destroyer

Post by Kloetenburger » Sun May 24, 2020 12:13 am

Easily their best 70‘s album.

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Re: Fan Reaction to Destroyer

Post by jannep17 » Sun May 24, 2020 2:24 am

Back then, it was difficult to assess the fan reaction. You checked what your friends thought, read a few reviews in the papers. But that was it. Today, you Google and get a hundred fan reviews etc.

I don't recall any negative reaction to Destroyer. They were still very much on their way up, career wise.

But I'm sure some diehards sat in their apartments and grumbled over Beth and Great Expectations.

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Re: Fan Reaction to Destroyer

Post by BC Witch » Sun May 24, 2020 6:18 am

When I got into KISS in 1980 word was that Destroyer was the album you had to check out. The fact it had orchestration and narrative was super cool. It took the good bits of prog/art rock and attached them to bombastic rock and roll. In many ways it's the perfect rock album. Cheap Trick's Dream Police was also considered a 'must listen' album and I believe at the time that was released it was treated with suspicion too.

In terms of the KISS timeline, I've recently gone back and listened to the vinyl albums in order of release and it really is a natural musical progression from the first three studio albums. Sonically though, it couldn't have been more different from it's predecessor ALIVE! and I think that's really where the schism comes in.

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Re: Fan Reaction to Destroyer

Post by Hi I'm Witz » Sun May 24, 2020 6:35 am

There were 2 very important factors that contributed to my extremely high opinion of Destroyer. ..

1. I was an extremely young and impressionable 6 year old, completely devoid of cynicism and narrow-mindedness when I first heard Destroyer.

2. It was the very first KISS album I had ever heard and had no point of reference to compare it to other KISS albums.

Destroyer, in humble opinion, is KISS' greatest studio achievement. It's my favorite KISS studio album. The impact it had on me was instant and profound. It "lit the match" that evolved into the roaring forest fire of fandom that grew within me. Destroyer to me is untouchable. It's the crown jewel of the KISS album catalogue.

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Re: Fan Reaction to Destroyer

Post by destroyerrnro » Sun May 24, 2020 7:18 am

I'm glad I missed most of that. I purchased the album the day it was released. My friends and I all loved the album then and now. The only time I can remember any dislike for the album was an interview Paul gave about RNRO where he states the new album would have no strings. To me though, it's the definitive Kiss album.

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Re: Fan Reaction to Destroyer

Post by mot$$33 » Sun May 24, 2020 7:42 am

southernkiss wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 5:38 pm
What do ya'll think turned off so many fans to Destroyer? Did the fans who disliked Destroyer come back around after RARO?
It was great to me. But, at that time, I was a little kid with no knowledge of Ezrin or the ins and outs of the Cooper camp. It was my first Kiss album and they were “super heroes”.

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Re: Fan Reaction to Destroyer

Post by acevog75 » Sun May 24, 2020 7:44 am

jkiss wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 6:18 pm
Fans that were former Alice Cooper ones were aware of Bob Ezrin's methods & just didn't like him having anything to do with KISS. They usually blamed him for the break-up of the AC original group. And also didn't like Bob turning KISS music into something much more comparable to what one would typically find on an Alice Cooper record. Plus, objections to what they believed to be other session musicians on the record.

I actually didn't care too much about what those fans thought; as that was too complex at the time to consider. And as I was still relatively a new fan at the time & still quite young n' naive. I did certainly hear about their objections to "Destroyer" & Bob's involvement. I enjoyed it for what it was or what I believed it all to be in that moment. Plus, glad I did or wouldn't have had any fun with it all & I had a lot of fun (probably more than should ever be allowed).

8)
Regarding the part about session musicians.....Was anyone talking about that at the time? I thought that was something that was brought to light much later on in their career.

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Re: Fan Reaction to Destroyer

Post by Wiped Out 78 » Sun May 24, 2020 7:47 am

Got into KISS in the summer of '76, so my first two albums were Alive! and Destroyer.

I guess I didn't know any '74-era KISS fans, because I don't remember any backlash.* Until the internet existed, I always assumed KISS fans loved Destroyer.



*Aside from my 17 year-old brother, who no longer wanted to be a fan of any band his 11 year-old brother was into. :lol:

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Re: Fan Reaction to Destroyer

Post by ace_frehley » Sun May 24, 2020 8:40 am

I didnt know that people hated Destroyer that much :shock: ....It has to be my number 1 favorite album from KISS.

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Re: Fan Reaction to Destroyer

Post by jannep17 » Sun May 24, 2020 8:56 am

acevog75 wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 7:44 am
jkiss wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 6:18 pm
Fans that were former Alice Cooper ones were aware of Bob Ezrin's methods & just didn't like him having anything to do with KISS. They usually blamed him for the break-up of the AC original group. And also didn't like Bob turning KISS music into something much more comparable to what one would typically find on an Alice Cooper record. Plus, objections to what they believed to be other session musicians on the record.

I actually didn't care too much about what those fans thought; as that was too complex at the time to consider. And as I was still relatively a new fan at the time & still quite young n' naive. I did certainly hear about their objections to "Destroyer" & Bob's involvement. I enjoyed it for what it was or what I believed it all to be in that moment. Plus, glad I did or wouldn't have had any fun with it all & I had a lot of fun (probably more than should ever be allowed).

8)
Regarding the part about session musicians.....Was anyone talking about that at the time? I thought that was something that was brought to light much later on in their career.
I don't think the Dick Wagner thing was out there until Ace had left. Possibly not until the 90's.

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Re: Fan Reaction to Destroyer

Post by KrazySwede » Sun May 24, 2020 9:04 am

Nothing to compare it against back then - heard it from my big brothers room.... Thought it was great, a few years later I was a fan.....

Even after having heard all the other records I'll say 'Destroyer' holds up very well. Never understood that purist-mentality, if new ways of doing something takes you (in this case KISS) forward then do so. You don't always know best yourself anyway....

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Re: Fan Reaction to Destroyer

Post by Eddie Van Hazel » Sun May 24, 2020 9:24 am

The negative criticism that we read about "Destroyer" in the 21st century
wasn't even a thought (or talked about) in 1976.

The fans that I knew were just excited that a new KISS album was available.

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Re: Fan Reaction to Destroyer

Post by ashorama » Sun May 24, 2020 9:41 am

BC Witch wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 6:18 am
When I got into KISS in 1980 word was that Destroyer was the album you had to check out. The fact it had orchestration and narrative was super cool. It took the good bits of prog/art rock and attached them to bombastic rock and roll. In many ways it's the perfect rock album. Cheap Trick's Dream Police was also considered a 'must listen' album and I believe at the time that was released it was treated with suspicion too.

In terms of the KISS timeline, I've recently gone back and listened to the vinyl albums in order of release and it really is a natural musical progression from the first three studio albums. Sonically though, it couldn't have been more different from it's predecessor ALIVE! and I think that's really where the schism comes in.
For me, Destoyer was the first album that *sounded* like what I thought an A-level band should sound like. The songs were good. The production was complex. The cover was, for me, excellent and always felt the back cover was a missed opportunity for such a visual band. "Great Expectations" was kind of a novelty song for me. I chuckled at the sexual innuendos.

Yes, Dream Police was met with equal--suspicion is a good word for it. Too slick, too polished, and like Kiss' fans with Alive!, CT fans wanted a rawer At Budokan product.

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Re: Fan Reaction to Destroyer

Post by B5Erik » Sun May 24, 2020 9:47 am

I've read articles and bits in books going back to the 70's that their core fanbase was unhappy with Destroyer because of the orchestral ballads, and because even the rockers were overproduced.

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Re: Fan Reaction to Destroyer

Post by KissCannibal » Sun May 24, 2020 9:55 am

I imagine it's because of Great Expectations,Beth, Sweet Pain(sounds like a solo album song) and the ones that do rock, are over produced. Destroyer is over rated and literally destroyed the chemistry of the band.

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Re: Fan Reaction to Destroyer

Post by GACatmandu » Sun May 24, 2020 9:56 am

I don't know what turned off KISS fans at the time Destroyer came out, but I can tell you why in my opinion Destroyer is one of the worst in the KISS catalog. Destroyer is way overproduced and on top of that guy Bob what's his face did a shitty job with the production in the first place he took a bunch of songs that sound great in a live setting and took the balls and cut them clean off the charging bull. Also, I have always heard that Destroyer is supposed to be some kind of concept album, is the concept still lost in Bob's coke-snorting nose or what, because I for one have never found a concept anywhere near Destroyer. I'll tell you what while it's not perfect Music From The Elder is a much better album than Destroyer could ever hope to be, and is Bob's best work with KISS by far, but the concept even on The Elder is still somewhat difficult in many respects. But Destroyer is an album that downright sucks. The songs from individually can be and normally are great live, but on that mess of an album they are a bunch of turds in a toilet bowl floating and needing to be flushed.

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Re: Fan Reaction to Destroyer

Post by BC Witch » Sun May 24, 2020 10:37 am

ashorama wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 9:41 am
BC Witch wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 6:18 am
When I got into KISS in 1980 word was that Destroyer was the album you had to check out. The fact it had orchestration and narrative was super cool. It took the good bits of prog/art rock and attached them to bombastic rock and roll. In many ways it's the perfect rock album. Cheap Trick's Dream Police was also considered a 'must listen' album and I believe at the time that was released it was treated with suspicion too.

In terms of the KISS timeline, I've recently gone back and listened to the vinyl albums in order of release and it really is a natural musical progression from the first three studio albums. Sonically though, it couldn't have been more different from it's predecessor ALIVE! and I think that's really where the schism comes in.
For me, Destoyer was the first album that *sounded* like what I thought an A-level band should sound like. The songs were good. The production was complex. The cover was, for me, excellent and always felt the back cover was a missed opportunity for such a visual band. "Great Expectations" was kind of a novelty song for me. I chuckled at the sexual innuendos.

Yes, Dream Police was met with equal--suspicion is a good word for it. Too slick, too polished, and like Kiss' fans with Alive!, CT fans wanted a rawer At Budokan product.
Oh yeah! I'd forgotten that Budokan became a hit whilst they were recording Dream Police. Wow, it was basically the same thing for both bands; 'here's our masterpiece! Oh, you want THAT instead?'

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Re: Fan Reaction to Destroyer

Post by B5Erik » Sun May 24, 2020 10:47 am

GACatmandu wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 9:56 am
I don't know what turned off KISS fans at the time Destroyer came out, but I can tell you why in my opinion Destroyer is one of the worst in the KISS catalog. Destroyer is way overproduced and on top of that guy Bob what's his face did a shitty job with the production in the first place he took a bunch of songs that sound great in a live setting and took the balls and cut them clean off the charging bull. Also, I have always heard that Destroyer is supposed to be some kind of concept album, is the concept still lost in Bob's coke-snorting nose or what, because I for one have never found a concept anywhere near Destroyer. I'll tell you what while it's not perfect Music From The Elder is a much better album than Destroyer could ever hope to be, and is Bob's best work with KISS by far, but the concept even on The Elder is still somewhat difficult in many respects. But Destroyer is an album that downright sucks. The songs from individually can be and normally are great live, but on that mess of an album they are a bunch of turds in a toilet bowl floating and needing to be flushed.
That view is a bit more extreme than mind, but I agree with many of your points.

Destroyer WAS overproduced, the musical/band chemistry was GONE, the orchestral ballads were out of place - Bob Ezrin took them a step too far in each of those areas.

I don't think it's a bad album, but definitely overrated and not nearly as good as it could have been.

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Re: Fan Reaction to Destroyer

Post by Hi I'm Witz » Sun May 24, 2020 1:35 pm

I have to laugh because my two favorite KISS studio albums from the 70's are Destroyer and Dynasty. These are the two 70's albums that are considered the biggest departures from the typical KISS formula.
While I enjoy the other studio albums to one degree or another, I feel like all the songs that are on those other 70's studio albums sound so much better on Alive and Alive 2, I just much prefer to listen to those versions. Where as with Destroyer and Dynasty, I LOVE the way the songs sound on the studio albums! Don't get me wrong, I do enjoy the Destroyer songs on Alive 2, but they have a totally different vibe/feel than the studio versions. Different enough that I enjoy listening to both versions.

I absolutely adore Destroyer and I think Ezrin did a fantastic job in the producer's chair. I also believe that other than maybe Alive!, Destroyer is by far the most important album in the KISS catalog in terms of their sustained, long term success.

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Re: Fan Reaction to Destroyer

Post by acevog75 » Sun May 24, 2020 2:54 pm

jannep17 wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 8:56 am
acevog75 wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 7:44 am
jkiss wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 6:18 pm
Fans that were former Alice Cooper ones were aware of Bob Ezrin's methods & just didn't like him having anything to do with KISS. They usually blamed him for the break-up of the AC original group. And also didn't like Bob turning KISS music into something much more comparable to what one would typically find on an Alice Cooper record. Plus, objections to what they believed to be other session musicians on the record.

I actually didn't care too much about what those fans thought; as that was too complex at the time to consider. And as I was still relatively a new fan at the time & still quite young n' naive. I did certainly hear about their objections to "Destroyer" & Bob's involvement. I enjoyed it for what it was or what I believed it all to be in that moment. Plus, glad I did or wouldn't have had any fun with it all & I had a lot of fun (probably more than should ever be allowed).

8)
Regarding the part about session musicians.....Was anyone talking about that at the time? I thought that was something that was brought to light much later on in their career.
I don't think the Dick Wagner thing was out there until Ace had left. Possibly not until the 90's.
Ok. I wasn’t sure. If not, then the arguement about ghost players wouldn’t have come up at the time of release.

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Re: Fan Reaction to Destroyer

Post by B5Erik » Sun May 24, 2020 3:43 pm

acevog75 wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 2:54 pm
jannep17 wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 8:56 am
acevog75 wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 7:44 am
jkiss wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 6:18 pm
Fans that were former Alice Cooper ones were aware of Bob Ezrin's methods & just didn't like him having anything to do with KISS. They usually blamed him for the break-up of the AC original group. And also didn't like Bob turning KISS music into something much more comparable to what one would typically find on an Alice Cooper record. Plus, objections to what they believed to be other session musicians on the record.

I actually didn't care too much about what those fans thought; as that was too complex at the time to consider. And as I was still relatively a new fan at the time & still quite young n' naive. I did certainly hear about their objections to "Destroyer" & Bob's involvement. I enjoyed it for what it was or what I believed it all to be in that moment. Plus, glad I did or wouldn't have had any fun with it all & I had a lot of fun (probably more than should ever be allowed).

8)
Regarding the part about session musicians.....Was anyone talking about that at the time? I thought that was something that was brought to light much later on in their career.
I don't think the Dick Wagner thing was out there until Ace had left. Possibly not until the 90's.
Ok. I wasn’t sure. If not, then the arguement about ghost players wouldn’t have come up at the time of release.
It didn't.

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Re: Fan Reaction to Destroyer

Post by southernkiss » Sun May 24, 2020 6:24 pm

I personally love Destroyer. I got it for Christmas when I was in fifth grade. I like the production.

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Re: Fan Reaction to Destroyer

Post by southernkiss » Sun May 24, 2020 6:25 pm

destroyerrnro wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 7:18 am
I purchased the album the day it was released.
Had you preordered it?

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Re: Fan Reaction to Destroyer

Post by Eddie Van Hazel » Sun May 24, 2020 6:31 pm

The first time I ever read about Ace discussing the Wagner/"Sweet Pain" solo
was in one of the "Rock Soldiers" fan club interviews. This was in 1987 or '88.

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Re: Fan Reaction to Destroyer

Post by kenn.ace » Sun May 24, 2020 6:35 pm

Loved all of it except Great Expectations.

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Re: Fan Reaction to Destroyer

Post by Wichita77 » Sun May 24, 2020 6:51 pm

badmachineogm wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 10:45 pm
As with everything KISS related, it’s important not to get caught up in revisionist thinking. The album, itself, the music, at the time - yes, I was there - was greeted more by confusion than revulsion, including Beth.

Destroyer marked the band’s transition from slightly dangerous, slightly sexy rock and roll “ghouls” to “super heroes.” Its cover announces that change most significantly. Anyone who jumped off the KISS bandwagon at that time likely did so because it quickly became overcrowded with kids, which KISS cultivated with even greater force in the months and years to come.

Rock’n’Roll Over and Love Gun followed in such rapid sequence that anyone feeling pissy or abandoned by Destroyer’s excesses and ambition quickly recovered. As has been expressed by many, including myself, on these pages: 1) whatever exodus was occurring was consequent to the b(r)and’s sudden erosion of “cool” and (2) was made up for in spades by the millions of new fans who came on board.

Today, Destroyer is the band’s ultimate irony: the record that sounds like none other in its catalogue, yet is most and best represented in the band’s live performances.
You are on to something about the revisionist thinking. In the days before the internet, we all pretty much made up our own minds about stuff. Everyone I knew loved Destroyer. The invasion of kids didn't happen until 1979. The two shows I saw in 77 were insane. Teens, young people, guys and girls, pot and spectacle.

I didn't notice any of the revulsion people talk about now. I'm sure there were people who reacted negatively to Destroyer, but I didn't notice it in Wichita.

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Re: Fan Reaction to Destroyer

Post by Wichita77 » Sun May 24, 2020 6:53 pm

Hi I'm Witz wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 1:35 pm
I have to laugh because my two favorite KISS studio albums from the 70's are Destroyer and Dynasty. These are the two 70's albums that are considered the biggest departures from the typical KISS formula.
While I enjoy the other studio albums to one degree or another, I feel like all the songs that are on those other 70's studio albums sound so much better on Alive and Alive 2, I just much prefer to listen to those versions. Where as with Destroyer and Dynasty, I LOVE the way the songs sound on the studio albums! Don't get me wrong, I do enjoy the Destroyer songs on Alive 2, but they have a totally different vibe/feel than the studio versions. Different enough that I enjoy listening to both versions.

I absolutely adore Destroyer and I think Ezrin did a fantastic job in the producer's chair. I also believe that other than maybe Alive!, Destroyer is by far the most important album in the KISS catalog in terms of their sustained, long term success.
I agree completely with everything you said about Destroyer. Time agrees with you too.

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Re: Fan Reaction to Destroyer

Post by Planet Caravan » Sun May 24, 2020 7:06 pm

GACatmandu wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 9:56 am
Also, I have always heard that Destroyer is supposed to be some kind of concept album, is the concept still lost in Bob's coke-snorting nose or what, because I for one have never found a concept anywhere near Destroyer. I'll tell you what while it's not perfect Music From The Elder is a much better album than Destroyer could ever hope to be, and is Bob's best work with KISS by far, but the concept even on The Elder is still somewhat difficult in many respects. But Destroyer is an album that downright sucks. The songs from individually can be and normally are great live, but on that mess of an album they are a bunch of turds in a toilet bowl floating and needing to be flushed.
Destroyer is not meant to be a concept album. No Kiss member has ever said its a concept album. At best there is a loose theme of the relationship between the band and their fans, and the day to day lives of the band & their fans. Many of the songs are a snapshot of this. I don't think it was intended, but the album ended up that way.

The song themes can easily be summarised below

DRC - fan dies on the way to a kiss concert
KOTNTW - Teenage angst of a fan and wanting for something more in life
GOT - perhaps the first "in character" kiss song
Great Expectations - a fan fantasizes about the members of kiss
Flaming Youth - a teenage kiss fan rebellion song
Sweet Pain - a risque song of S&M sex between a kiss member and a groupie
SIOL - another teenage kiss fan rebellion song. Gene and Paul's lyrics are egging them on
Beth - the strain that being in a successful band puts on a relationship
DYLM - when you're a rockstar, does a girl really love you for who you are?


In comparison. The Elder is a complete mess. Points for trying but its a failure. Unlike Destroyer, The Elder IS meant to be a concept album and it fails. There aren't even enough songs to tell the story, which is unintelligible. Its an unfinished album that was vomited out prematurely.

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Re: Fan Reaction to Destroyer

Post by jkiss » Sun May 24, 2020 7:52 pm

acevog75 wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 7:44 am
jkiss wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 6:18 pm
Fans that were former Alice Cooper ones were aware of Bob Ezrin's methods & just didn't like him having anything to do with KISS. They usually blamed him for the break-up of the AC original group. And also didn't like Bob turning KISS music into something much more comparable to what one would typically find on an Alice Cooper record. Plus, objections to what they believed to be other session musicians on the record.

I actually didn't care too much about what those fans thought; as that was too complex at the time to consider. And as I was still relatively a new fan at the time & still quite young n' naive. I did certainly hear about their objections to "Destroyer" & Bob's involvement. I enjoyed it for what it was or what I believed it all to be in that moment. Plus, glad I did or wouldn't have had any fun with it all & I had a lot of fun (probably more than should ever be allowed).

8)
Regarding the part about session musicians.....Was anyone talking about that at the time? I thought that was something that was brought to light much later on in their career.
Yes, including session musicians. They alleged Alice Cooper's 'new group' were session musicians on the album. It was something that was argued about among a segment of fans. I listened in for some of it & this book found here was partly the source of what caused controversy in regard to Bob (in general).

One of them let me borrow it for a few days to 'fast track' me about Bob ...he also wanted me to come over to his parents house & listen to records with him in the basement. I didn't go, but I would of if I was into him & I wasn't. I actually didn't like those guys all that much; as there were definitely fans (or former) I didn't care to be around for extended periods.

I went to a big school, big mall or basically to say there was big everything. It was very easy to gauge fan or general reaction to KISS & they had caught kids & teenagers attention (mine, too). KISS was simply just going to get bigger; as far as I was concerned. They had a hit waiting in the wings on the album, even I knew that of "Beth". And by the summer/Spirit of '76 tour ...no stopping them.

Two 'perfect' years in my life, during the '70's ...1976 & 1977. And there was no other time better that I've experienced to be a fan of KISS ...it was 'their' time. It seemed nearly everyone was excited about KISS to some degree or to say there was a real buzz. Also, the first time I met both Ace & Peter & 'unmasked' (the first of several, during the '70's).

:idea:

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Re: Fan Reaction to Destroyer

Post by destroyerrnro » Mon May 25, 2020 1:48 pm

southernkiss wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 6:25 pm
destroyerrnro wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 7:18 am
I purchased the album the day it was released.
Had you preordered it?
No sir, just walked into the old Tower Records in West Covina and asked the clerk for it. Great memories from a great time at a great store. 😊

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Re: Fan Reaction to Destroyer

Post by southernkiss » Mon May 25, 2020 1:51 pm

destroyerrnro wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 1:48 pm
southernkiss wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 6:25 pm
destroyerrnro wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 7:18 am
I purchased the album the day it was released.
Had you preordered it?
No sir, just walked into the old Tower Records in West Covina and asked the clerk for it. Great memories from a great time at a great store. 😊
That sounds cool. I am not sure if it was Destroyer or RARO that had the distinction of being the first KISS album to go gold from preorders. Does anyone know which one it was?

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Re: Fan Reaction to Destroyer

Post by Demian1977 » Mon May 25, 2020 3:17 pm

Destroyer was the album that introduced me to KISS in 1986. After hearing the intro DRC/KOTNW I was hooked for life. The comic book hero style artwork on the album cover just ignited the imagination..keeping in mind I was in a small town pre-internet..

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Re: Fan Reaction to Destroyer

Post by gabbagabba » Mon May 25, 2020 8:58 pm

GACatmandu wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 9:56 am
I don't know what turned off KISS fans at the time Destroyer came out, but I can tell you why in my opinion Destroyer is one of the worst in the KISS catalog. Destroyer is way overproduced and on top of that guy Bob what's his face did a shitty job with the production in the first place he took a bunch of songs that sound great in a live setting and took the balls and cut them clean off the charging bull. Also, I have always heard that Destroyer is supposed to be some kind of concept album, is the concept still lost in Bob's coke-snorting nose or what, because I for one have never found a concept anywhere near Destroyer. I'll tell you what while it's not perfect Music From The Elder is a much better album than Destroyer could ever hope to be, and is Bob's best work with KISS by far, but the concept even on The Elder is still somewhat difficult in many respects. But Destroyer is an album that downright sucks. The songs from individually can be and normally are great live, but on that mess of an album they are a bunch of turds in a toilet bowl floating and needing to be flushed.
I think that songs like "Shout It Out Loud", "Do You Love Me", "God of Thunder" and "King of the Night Time World" sound much better on this album than live.
And if you listen to the demo version of "Detroit" you can easily understand how great Bob was, just like with "Beth".
It's your opinion and it's ok, but I think "Destroyer is a very solid record.

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Re: Fan Reaction to Destroyer

Post by WI KISSfan » Tue May 26, 2020 2:27 pm

Wet Willie wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 6:21 pm
I didn't realise anybody hated Bob Ezrin or Destroyer until I came here...!!
I'd never heard of such a thing either.

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Re: Fan Reaction to Destroyer

Post by Black Ace » Tue May 26, 2020 5:52 pm

I don’t care for Destroyer, because I don’t hear a lot of Ace Frehley on it. I don’t hear his signature sounding solos.

Rock And Roll Over has them in spades.

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Re: Fan Reaction to Destroyer

Post by jkiss » Tue May 26, 2020 6:39 pm

WI KISSfan wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 2:27 pm
Wet Willie wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 6:21 pm
I didn't realise anybody hated Bob Ezrin or Destroyer until I came here...!!
I'd never heard of such a thing either.
Bob claimed to get a wave of 'hate mail' directly from fans. I even once came across an example of the British rock press singling-out & attacking Bob when reviewing the record.

In retrospect, possibly one of the ultimate '70's rock 'what ifs' that actually transpired, "What if Bob 'Alice Cooper' Ezrin produced an album for KISS?" Alice Cooper (the original group) was huge ...paved the way & primed a generation for something bizarre as KISS. And without any doubt Bob was instrumental & key to Alice Cooper's commercial/mainstream success.

Alice Cooper & KISS were closely related in many ways (directly & indirectly), but perhaps difficult for fans (& that weren't around or were far too young) to really know or easily see how exactly so (aside from what has come-up in books, documentaries, etc.) & long-long after the fact.

:idea:

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Re: Fan Reaction to Destroyer

Post by southernkiss » Tue May 26, 2020 7:32 pm

WI KISSfan wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 2:27 pm
Wet Willie wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 6:21 pm
I didn't realise anybody hated Bob Ezrin or Destroyer until I came here...!!
I'd never heard of such a thing either.
I personally love Destroyer. I have ever since I was eleven. Sales wise, it did not really do as well as it did until Beth became a hit. I love Bob's production.

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Re: Fan Reaction to Destroyer

Post by andreww1962 » Wed May 27, 2020 4:36 am

Destroyer marked the end of KISS' mature audience, most were university age at that point. The album just didnt appeal to them, it was too much of a departure for them. I saw the Destroyer tour at Varsity Stadium in Toronto, which is the football stadium for the University of Toronto. Because of this, discount tickets were sold at the school for the show, and I believe they sold less than a hundred of them. Kiss suddenly wasn't cool if you were over 20, and that number would get lower & lower in the following years.

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Re: Fan Reaction to Destroyer

Post by WI KISSfan » Wed May 27, 2020 12:09 pm

southernkiss wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 7:32 pm
WI KISSfan wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 2:27 pm
Wet Willie wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 6:21 pm
I didn't realise anybody hated Bob Ezrin or Destroyer until I came here...!!
I'd never heard of such a thing either.
I personally love Destroyer. I have ever since I was eleven. Sales wise, it did not really do as well as it did until Beth became a hit. I love Bob's production.
One of my favorites too.

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