Gene Didn’t Write “Rock And Roll Hell”?

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Gene Didn’t Write “Rock And Roll Hell”?

Post by Doose » Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:00 pm

Jim Vallance: "Believe me ... after 25 years, sometimes you don't remember all the details. I've read the interviews where Gene says he sent us a riff [for War Machine], but I don't remember it happening that way. Plus, I keep EVERYTHING, and I don't have a tape from Gene in my collection. I'm not saying my memory is right, and Gene's is wrong. I'm just telling you what I remember. But here's an interesting clue. Checking my files, I see that Gene only claimed a 10% share of 'Rock And Roll Hell' (for the single verse of lyrics he contributed). On 'War Machine' he claimed a full one-third share, the same share that Bryan and I received (one-third each). That tells me that Gene believed — and perhaps Bryan and I believed — that Gene's contribution to 'War Machine' was more significant than I remember!"

Jim Vallance: "... Was it a mistake to work with KISS? I don't think it was a mistake. Bryan and I were young, we wanted to be successful song writers, and we got a call from KISS, one of the biggest bands in the world. Of course you're not going to say 'no thanks.' I was slightly disappointed that we had to share credit with Gene on 'Rock And Roll Hell', but it was also a good lesson for us. Gene's a smart guy. I respect his intelligence."

https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/songw ... r-machine/

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Re: Gene Didn’t Write “Rock And Roll Hell”?

Post by Forty Deuce » Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:11 pm

This is the original version written by Vallance.


Or click here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scM85IIFwUw

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Re: Gene Didn’t Write “Rock And Roll Hell”?

Post by spaceace1977 » Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:34 pm

Of course he didn't.

Total scumbag move.

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Re: Gene Didn’t Write “Rock And Roll Hell”?

Post by Tail of a hurricane » Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:46 pm

I’ve had the original for years, but Kiss’ version is miles better, and despite Gene changing some parts, he makes it his song.

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Re: Gene Didn’t Write “Rock And Roll Hell”?

Post by Doose » Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:52 pm

If that was what Vallance presented, Gene definitely contributed more than 10%. Other than the chorus being similar, it’s a totally different song and feel.

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Re: Gene Didn’t Write “Rock And Roll Hell”?

Post by Forty Deuce » Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:57 pm

Doose wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:52 pm
If that was what Vallance presented, Gene definitely contributed more than 10%. Other than the chorus being similar, it’s a totally different song and feel.
I believe Vallance wrote a new version of the song for KISS with the updated lyrics/music. Gene ultimately liked the chorus and the BTO song wasn't a hit or even a song by the original band, so no one was going to really make a connection with KISS and a Canadian band. Randy Bachman is not on the album with RRH. So Vallance started from scratch keeping the chorus.

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Re: Gene Didn’t Write “Rock And Roll Hell”?

Post by Doose » Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:39 am

Forty Deuce wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:57 pm
Doose wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:52 pm
If that was what Vallance presented, Gene definitely contributed more than 10%. Other than the chorus being similar, it’s a totally different song and feel.
I believe Vallance wrote a new version of the song for KISS with the updated lyrics/music. Gene ultimately liked the chorus and the BTO song wasn't a hit or even a song by the original band, so no one was going to really make a connection with KISS and a Canadian band. Randy Bachman is not on the album with RRH. So Vallance started from scratch keeping the chorus.
That makes total sense then.

I also find it interesting that Gene and Paul had no problem sharing song writing credits/ownership with complete unknowns, but not with Vinnie. He must have really rubbed them the wrong way.

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Re: Gene Didn’t Write “Rock And Roll Hell”?

Post by Den Dennis » Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:54 am

I read an interview where Jim Vallance said Gene called him and said he loved the song, but it needed another verse. Jim said no it's fine as it is. Gene said again it needs another verse. Basically just to get in on the royalties!

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Re: Gene Didn’t Write “Rock And Roll Hell”?

Post by VanRockCity » Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:24 am

spaceace1977 wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:34 pm
Of course he didn't.

Total scumbag move.
No doubt.

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Re: Gene Didn’t Write “Rock And Roll Hell”?

Post by banks » Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:25 am

In Behind The Mask Gene says himself that he didn't contribute shit to this song ("It may have been a bridge") and that Jim's and Bryan's names should have been before his in the credits.

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Re: Gene Didn’t Write “Rock And Roll Hell”?

Post by martial » Fri Mar 27, 2020 8:36 am

Anyway awesome Kissified version 🤟

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Re: Gene Didn’t Write “Rock And Roll Hell”?

Post by shandi777 » Fri Mar 27, 2020 8:52 am

Jim and Bryan agreed to the terms...nothing scummy to see here.

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Re: Gene Didn’t Write “Rock And Roll Hell”?

Post by Bandit1974 » Fri Mar 27, 2020 8:53 am

banks wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:25 am
In Behind The Mask Gene says himself that he didn't contribute shit to this song ("It may have been a bridge") and that Jim's and Bryan's names should have been before his in the credits.
It sounds like the song *should* have ended at the synthesized part of "...think he's a little like me and you."

1:48
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPHgqCh ... dex=5&t=0s

He's on the edge, he can feel it in his heart
This time the pressure's really on
He's gonna fight it, might even steal a guitar
This time tomorrow he'll be gone
There ain't nobody gonna tell him what to do
Think he's a little like me and you



I think the part Gene contributed was the very last section of lyrics. They almost looked like they tacked on:

He's on the run, won't stand for second place,
but his turn may never come
He's not a victim, you can see it in his face
But he can't see what he's become
Well, he wants it bad, but he wants no charity
He seems to think it's his destiny

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Re: Gene Didn’t Write “Rock And Roll Hell”?

Post by VanRockCity » Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:02 am

shandi777 wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 8:52 am
Jim and Bryan agreed to the terms...nothing scummy to see here.
Pure, unethical sleaze move from Gene Simmons, which is pretty obvious to anyone. Of course in your mind Kiss are gods who can do no wrong, right? Of course there was justice served in that the Vallance/Adams combo became the songwriters Gene Simmons could only dream of.

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Re: Gene Didn’t Write “Rock And Roll Hell”?

Post by atowntommy » Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:05 am

VanRockCity wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:24 am
spaceace1977 wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:34 pm
Of course he didn't.

Total scumbag move.
No doubt.
So was it a "scumbag move" when Ace re-wrote a bit of Megaforce to create Calling to You?

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Re: Gene Didn’t Write “Rock And Roll Hell”?

Post by Tito » Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:16 am

atowntommy wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:05 am
VanRockCity wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:24 am
spaceace1977 wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:34 pm
Of course he didn't.

Total scumbag move.
No doubt.
So was it a "scumbag move" when Ace re-wrote a bit of Megaforce to create Calling to You?
Well at least one of the original writers Tod Howarth was part of that process. Unlike Gene and Paul adding their names to "God Gave Rock'n'Roll To You". That one always baffled me. Claiming co-writing credits for slight rearranging of a song that's already been recorded. The mind boggles. Compare to Jimi Hendrix's "All Along The Watchtower" or The Byrds' "Mr. Tambourine Man", both completely original music with the Dylan lyrics (and melody, kind of). Neither Hendrix or Roger McGuinn had the gall to claim co-writing credit. No such problem with the KISS guys. :lol:

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Re: Gene Didn’t Write “Rock And Roll Hell”?

Post by Bandit1974 » Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:27 am

Tito wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:16 am
Unlike Gene and Paul adding their names to "God Gave Rock'n'Roll To You". That one always baffled me. Claiming co-writing credits for slight rearranging of a song that's already been recorded. The mind boggles. Compare to Jimi Hendrix's "All Along The Watchtower" or The Byrds' "Mr. Tambourine Man", both completely original music with the Dylan lyrics (and melody, kind of). Neither Hendrix or Roger McGuinn had the gall to claim co-writing credit. No such problem with the KISS guys. :lol:

The chorus is the same, but the lyrics to Argent's "God Gave Rock and Roll To You" and KISS' "God Gave Rock and Roll To You II" are totally different.

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Re: Gene Didn’t Write “Rock And Roll Hell”?

Post by Forty Deuce » Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:46 am

Didn't Paul say in his book while complaining about Gene not being active in KISS in the 80's - that he would show up with a bunch of songs that Paul wasn't entirely sure that Gene had actually written vs. a similar type situation with Adams and Vallance.

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Re: Gene Didn’t Write “Rock And Roll Hell”?

Post by atowntommy » Fri Mar 27, 2020 10:10 am

Tito wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:16 am
atowntommy wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:05 am
VanRockCity wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:24 am
spaceace1977 wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:34 pm
Of course he didn't.

Total scumbag move.
No doubt.
So was it a "scumbag move" when Ace re-wrote a bit of Megaforce to create Calling to You?
Well at least one of the original writers Tod Howarth was part of that process. Unlike Gene and Paul adding their names to "God Gave Rock'n'Roll To You". That one always baffled me. Claiming co-writing credits for slight rearranging of a song that's already been recorded. The mind boggles. Compare to Jimi Hendrix's "All Along The Watchtower" or The Byrds' "Mr. Tambourine Man", both completely original music with the Dylan lyrics (and melody, kind of). Neither Hendrix or Roger McGuinn had the gall to claim co-writing credit. No such problem with the KISS guys. :lol:
If that's your point of view, here are some more scumbags for your list: Elvis Presley, Mike Lievber & Jerry Stoller, Madonna and Avril Lavigne. There's a very old saying in the music business, "Change a word, take a third." Meaning the artist comes in makes some small changes and takes a share of the songwriting and publishing royalties. After all, for an unproven songwriter, it's better to get half of.a song's income than 100% of nothing.

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Re: Gene Didn’t Write “Rock And Roll Hell”?

Post by Starbandit74 » Fri Mar 27, 2020 10:20 am

VanRockCity wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:02 am
shandi777 wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 8:52 am
Jim and Bryan agreed to the terms...nothing scummy to see here.
Pure, unethical sleaze move from Gene Simmons, which is pretty obvious to anyone. Of course in your mind Kiss are gods who can do no wrong, right? Of course there was justice served in that the Vallance/Adams combo became the songwriters Gene Simmons could only dream of.
How is this any different from any song that lists Peter Criss as a co-write?

Peter did this to Stan Penridge routinely, among others.

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Re: Gene Didn’t Write “Rock And Roll Hell”?

Post by Tito » Fri Mar 27, 2020 10:21 am

Bandit1974 wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:27 am
Tito wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:16 am
Unlike Gene and Paul adding their names to "God Gave Rock'n'Roll To You". That one always baffled me. Claiming co-writing credits for slight rearranging of a song that's already been recorded. The mind boggles. Compare to Jimi Hendrix's "All Along The Watchtower" or The Byrds' "Mr. Tambourine Man", both completely original music with the Dylan lyrics (and melody, kind of). Neither Hendrix or Roger McGuinn had the gall to claim co-writing credit. No such problem with the KISS guys. :lol:

The chorus is the same, but the lyrics to Argent's "God Gave Rock and Roll To You" and KISS' "God Gave Rock and Roll To You II" are totally different.
I am aware of that. I gave examples of where a lot more than that was changed in a cover version with no writing credit claimed.

If you take an existing song and change a lyric, you didn't write the song as far as I'm concerned.

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Re: Gene Didn’t Write “Rock And Roll Hell”?

Post by gene therapist » Fri Mar 27, 2020 10:34 am

Doose wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:52 pm
If that was what Vallance presented, Gene definitely contributed more than 10%. Other than the chorus being similar, it’s a totally different song and feel.
It was a question of writing credits. That does not necessarily relate to the "feel" of the song per se. Production, arrangement and artistic interpretation can have a huge effect.

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Re: Gene Didn’t Write “Rock And Roll Hell”?

Post by elleneff » Fri Mar 27, 2020 11:56 am

We as fans can get annoyed by their rather brutal landgrab of songs their really didnt have a hand in writing.
But thats Kiss.
The Getty Images of rock.

Buy them in , hook or by crook. Slap their name and rights over them and boom. Publishing.

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Re: Gene Didn’t Write “Rock And Roll Hell”?

Post by spaceace1977 » Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:26 pm

Forty Deuce wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:11 pm
This is the original version written by Vallance.


Or click here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scM85IIFwUw
Just wanted to this say this is absolutely awful.

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Re: Gene Didn’t Write “Rock And Roll Hell”?

Post by kenn.ace » Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:39 pm

Starbandit74 wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 10:20 am
VanRockCity wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:02 am
shandi777 wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 8:52 am
Jim and Bryan agreed to the terms...nothing scummy to see here.
Pure, unethical sleaze move from Gene Simmons, which is pretty obvious to anyone. Of course in your mind Kiss are gods who can do no wrong, right? Of course there was justice served in that the Vallance/Adams combo became the songwriters Gene Simmons could only dream of.
How is this any different from any song that lists Peter Criss as a co-write?

Peter did this to Stan Penridge routinely, among others.
I am just curious as to what other songs by Stan I would know other than the ones that ended up on KISS or Peter Criss albums. If Peter did not have his name on them and sing them would they have ever seen the light of day for Stan to get any publishing on? I am just wondering as I don't know if it is really comparable to the Bryan Adams and Jim Vallance situation.

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Re: Gene Didn’t Write “Rock And Roll Hell”?

Post by stutterer » Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:14 pm

Somehow I was under the impression that 90% of Creatures of the Night album is not written by Gene and Paul.

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Re: Gene Didn’t Write “Rock And Roll Hell”?

Post by kenn.ace » Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:17 pm

Tito wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 10:21 am
Bandit1974 wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:27 am
Tito wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:16 am
Unlike Gene and Paul adding their names to "God Gave Rock'n'Roll To You". That one always baffled me. Claiming co-writing credits for slight rearranging of a song that's already been recorded. The mind boggles. Compare to Jimi Hendrix's "All Along The Watchtower" or The Byrds' "Mr. Tambourine Man", both completely original music with the Dylan lyrics (and melody, kind of). Neither Hendrix or Roger McGuinn had the gall to claim co-writing credit. No such problem with the KISS guys. :lol:

The chorus is the same, but the lyrics to Argent's "God Gave Rock and Roll To You" and KISS' "God Gave Rock and Roll To You II" are totally different.
I am aware of that. I gave examples of where a lot more than that was changed in a cover version with no writing credit claimed.

If you take an existing song and change a lyric, you didn't write the song as far as I'm concerned.
Surfin' U.S.A. changed all the words, but it is credited to Chuck Berry.

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Re: Gene Didn’t Write “Rock And Roll Hell”?

Post by Forty Deuce » Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:27 pm

spaceace1977 wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:26 pm
Forty Deuce wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:11 pm
This is the original version written by Vallance.


Or click here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scM85IIFwUw
Just wanted to this say this is absolutely awful.
The chorus is good as in the KISS song, but yes.

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Re: Gene Didn’t Write “Rock And Roll Hell”?

Post by Tito » Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:45 pm

kenn.ace wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:17 pm
Tito wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 10:21 am
Bandit1974 wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:27 am
Tito wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:16 am
Unlike Gene and Paul adding their names to "God Gave Rock'n'Roll To You". That one always baffled me. Claiming co-writing credits for slight rearranging of a song that's already been recorded. The mind boggles. Compare to Jimi Hendrix's "All Along The Watchtower" or The Byrds' "Mr. Tambourine Man", both completely original music with the Dylan lyrics (and melody, kind of). Neither Hendrix or Roger McGuinn had the gall to claim co-writing credit. No such problem with the KISS guys. :lol:

The chorus is the same, but the lyrics to Argent's "God Gave Rock and Roll To You" and KISS' "God Gave Rock and Roll To You II" are totally different.
I am aware of that. I gave examples of where a lot more than that was changed in a cover version with no writing credit claimed.

If you take an existing song and change a lyric, you didn't write the song as far as I'm concerned.
Surfin' U.S.A. changed all the words, but it is credited to Chuck Berry.
Exactly, that's another one.

I wonder if Paul would be cool with me changing a few lines from "Love Gun", recording that and giving myself a co-writing credit.

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Re: Gene Didn’t Write “Rock And Roll Hell”?

Post by elleneff » Fri Mar 27, 2020 2:23 pm

Tito wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:45 pm
kenn.ace wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:17 pm
Tito wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 10:21 am
Bandit1974 wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:27 am
Tito wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:16 am
Unlike Gene and Paul adding their names to "God Gave Rock'n'Roll To You". That one always baffled me. Claiming co-writing credits for slight rearranging of a song that's already been recorded. The mind boggles. Compare to Jimi Hendrix's "All Along The Watchtower" or The Byrds' "Mr. Tambourine Man", both completely original music with the Dylan lyrics (and melody, kind of). Neither Hendrix or Roger McGuinn had the gall to claim co-writing credit. No such problem with the KISS guys. :lol:

The chorus is the same, but the lyrics to Argent's "God Gave Rock and Roll To You" and KISS' "God Gave Rock and Roll To You II" are totally different.
I am aware of that. I gave examples of where a lot more than that was changed in a cover version with no writing credit claimed.

If you take an existing song and change a lyric, you didn't write the song as far as I'm concerned.
Surfin' U.S.A. changed all the words, but it is credited to Chuck Berry.
Exactly, that's another one.

I wonder if Paul would be cool with me changing a few lines from "Love Gun", recording that and giving myself a co-writing credit.
Why not? and if he contests it, tell him in his own words its a homage, not a steal.
Its what Paul did on Shandi, stealing it lock stock and barrel from Joe Walsh.
Or Dreamin off Alice Cooper.

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Re: Gene Didn’t Write “Rock And Roll Hell”?

Post by Mr. Kiss » Fri Mar 27, 2020 8:05 pm

Tail of a hurricane wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:46 pm
I’ve had the original for years, but Kiss’ version is miles better, and despite Gene changing some parts, he makes it his song.


Agreed. Kiss definitely improved it by making it more sinister. 8)

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Re: Gene Didn’t Write “Rock And Roll Hell”?

Post by shandi777 » Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:01 pm

VanRockCity wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:02 am
shandi777 wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 8:52 am
Jim and Bryan agreed to the terms...nothing scummy to see here.
Pure, unethical sleaze move from Gene Simmons, which is pretty obvious to anyone. Of course in your mind Kiss are gods who can do no wrong, right? Of course there was justice served in that the Vallance/Adams combo became the songwriters Gene Simmons could only dream of.
Wow...hi Jim. :D

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Re: Gene Didn’t Write “Rock And Roll Hell”?

Post by Shandi Man » Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:10 pm

Tito wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 10:21 am
Bandit1974 wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:27 am
Tito wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:16 am
Unlike Gene and Paul adding their names to "God Gave Rock'n'Roll To You". That one always baffled me. Claiming co-writing credits for slight rearranging of a song that's already been recorded. The mind boggles. Compare to Jimi Hendrix's "All Along The Watchtower" or The Byrds' "Mr. Tambourine Man", both completely original music with the Dylan lyrics (and melody, kind of). Neither Hendrix or Roger McGuinn had the gall to claim co-writing credit. No such problem with the KISS guys. :lol:

The chorus is the same, but the lyrics to Argent's "God Gave Rock and Roll To You" and KISS' "God Gave Rock and Roll To You II" are totally different.
I am aware of that. I gave examples of where a lot more than that was changed in a cover version with no writing credit claimed.

If you take an existing song and change a lyric, you didn't write the song as far as I'm concerned.
I agree with this. That is Weird Al Jankovic territory.

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Re: Gene Didn’t Write “Rock And Roll Hell”?

Post by Doose » Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:45 pm

Also found this:

During April 1982 Bryan Adams and Jim Vallance reworked the song giving it a new lyric and a heavier overall feel. They submitted it in July 1982, along with "War Machine," to producer Michael James Jackson for consideration for KISS to record. According to Jim, "About a week later we got a call from Gene Simmons. He said he loved our tracks and KISS were interested in recording them. There was just one problem - 'Rock 'N Roll Hell' needed an extra verse! Adams and I were in the same room, on separate phones. We looked at each other and shook our heads. The song was finished. Why on earth would Gene want us to write another verse? We told Gene how we felt about it. There was a moment of silence on the other end of the line and then Gene spoke, very slowly and firmly: 'You don't understand,' he said. 'The song needs an extra verse. And I'm going to write it.' Suddenly it dawned on us. The song didn't really need an extra verse. Gene was simply trying to tell us, in not-too-subtle terms, that he wouldn't record our song unless his name appeared as a co-writer - and unless he received a portion of the royalties! We'd just been bullied, and the choices were obvious: we could have partial credit on a KISS album that would probably sell 10 million copies, or we could have zero credit on the album - and zero royalties! Regrettably, we gave in to Gene's demands. And while the experience left us with an empty feeling, it also served as an important lesson for the future. We never relinquished credit to anyone again" (Jim Vallance).

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Re: Gene Didn’t Write “Rock And Roll Hell”?

Post by Hellbastard » Fri Mar 27, 2020 10:41 pm

Mr. Kiss wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 8:05 pm
Tail of a hurricane wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:46 pm
I’ve had the original for years, but Kiss’ version is miles better, and despite Gene changing some parts, he makes it his song.


Agreed. Kiss definitely improved it by making it more sinister. 8)
But then again, none of us (I assume) has heard what Adams & Vallance offered to Kiss.

As I understand it, it wasn't the recorded BTO version that Gene did whatever he did to, but a rewrite that Adams & Vallance had already done themselves.

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Re: Gene Didn’t Write “Rock And Roll Hell”?

Post by Lofton23rdSt » Sat Mar 28, 2020 4:29 am

It's one of my favorite Kiss songs, but it's disappointing that Gene doesn't know the lyrics when they've done it acoustically. I think Kiss only played it once on the Creatures Tour.

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Re: Gene Didn’t Write “Rock And Roll Hell”?

Post by Mr. Kiss » Sat Mar 28, 2020 4:14 pm

Hellbastard wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 10:41 pm
Mr. Kiss wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 8:05 pm
Tail of a hurricane wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:46 pm
I’ve had the original for years, but Kiss’ version is miles better, and despite Gene changing some parts, he makes it his song.


Agreed. Kiss definitely improved it by making it more sinister. 8)
But then again, none of us (I assume) has heard what Adams & Vallance offered to Kiss.

As I understand it, it wasn't the recorded BTO version that Gene did whatever he did to, but a rewrite that Adams & Vallance had already done themselves.


True. Point well taken Hellbastard. 8)

I can definitely understand why Adams and Vallance felt Gene was being a prick. His approach was unethical, at the very least. :(

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Re: Gene Didn’t Write “Rock And Roll Hell”?

Post by Mr. Kiss » Sat Mar 28, 2020 4:17 pm

Doose wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:45 pm
Also found this:

During April 1982 Bryan Adams and Jim Vallance reworked the song giving it a new lyric and a heavier overall feel. They submitted it in July 1982, along with "War Machine," to producer Michael James Jackson for consideration for KISS to record. According to Jim, "About a week later we got a call from Gene Simmons. He said he loved our tracks and KISS were interested in recording them. There was just one problem - 'Rock 'N Roll Hell' needed an extra verse! Adams and I were in the same room, on separate phones. We looked at each other and shook our heads. The song was finished. Why on earth would Gene want us to write another verse? We told Gene how we felt about it. There was a moment of silence on the other end of the line and then Gene spoke, very slowly and firmly: 'You don't understand,' he said. 'The song needs an extra verse. And I'm going to write it.' Suddenly it dawned on us. The song didn't really need an extra verse. Gene was simply trying to tell us, in not-too-subtle terms, that he wouldn't record our song unless his name appeared as a co-writer - and unless he received a portion of the royalties! We'd just been bullied, and the choices were obvious: we could have partial credit on a KISS album that would probably sell 10 million copies, or we could have zero credit on the album - and zero royalties! Regrettably, we gave in to Gene's demands. And while the experience left us with an empty feeling, it also served as an important lesson for the future. We never relinquished credit to anyone again" (Jim Vallance).


Hmmm.... interesting. Thanks for sharing it. 8)

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Re: Gene Didn’t Write “Rock And Roll Hell”?

Post by Soylent Gene » Sat Mar 28, 2020 6:40 pm

Please tell me about one person that has had a pleasant experience working with or for Gene and hasn’t lost their fucking shirt. Just one. I’ll wait.

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Re: Gene Didn’t Write “Rock And Roll Hell”?

Post by AkuDrummer » Sun Mar 29, 2020 8:39 am

Soylent Gene wrote:
Sat Mar 28, 2020 6:40 pm
Please tell me about one person that has had a pleasant experience working with or for Gene and hasn’t lost their fucking shirt. Just one. I’ll wait.
Tommy Thayer?

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