Question about chords

The broadest possible category for KISS discussion. Everything to do with KISS and its members, past and present. Posts offering bootleg, pirate, or illegal items, or links to those items, will be deleted. Please refer to the Terms Of Service (TOS) for this site for maximum board experience. Should any post contain material that violates your copyright, please follow the instructions on the DMCA takedown notice page.
User avatar
stutterer
Spends too much time FAQ'ing off!
Spends too much time FAQ'ing off!
Posts: 3469
Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2015 4:28 pm

Question about chords

Post by stutterer »

Anybody knows how this guitar trick that Ace uses in almost all of his songs is correctly called? The one where root note of the power chord is moved down one fret then back again.
It's the first thing that is played on Insane, on One Plus One, it's the second/third chord in Cold Gin, etc.
Thanks.

User avatar
ZachAttack
Spends too much time FAQ'ing off!
Spends too much time FAQ'ing off!
Posts: 2620
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2014 9:09 am
Location: Branvold's Head

Re: Question about chords

Post by ZachAttack »

It's an old technique used back in the early days of rock and roll by people like Chuck Berry. I don't think there is a name for it, it's just sliding

User avatar
stutterer
Spends too much time FAQ'ing off!
Spends too much time FAQ'ing off!
Posts: 3469
Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2015 4:28 pm

Re: Question about chords

Post by stutterer »

Damn. 2020s fast approaching, one'd think they'd name it something by now!

User avatar
missingdiver
Spends too much time FAQ'ing off!
Spends too much time FAQ'ing off!
Posts: 4751
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2007 1:40 pm
Location: 10 East 23rd Street

Re: Question about chords

Post by missingdiver »

Im sire there is a name for it....ive just never been one of them book learning types of guitarists lol

Lower third/octave slide bar chord thingy maybe?

User avatar
Bruce
Qualified to wear Ace's makeup!
Qualified to wear Ace's makeup!
Posts: 5968
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:01 pm

Re: Question about chords

Post by Bruce »

It's an inverted power chord.

farmertom311
Full KISS Army Member
Full KISS Army Member
Posts: 280
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2019 6:20 am

Re: Question about chords

Post by farmertom311 »

3
2
4

I call that chord above the KISS chord. You can move it up and down the neck anywhere and it’s in like 90% of KISS songs. Has nothing to do with the OPs post just something I find interesting lol.

User avatar
stutterer
Spends too much time FAQ'ing off!
Spends too much time FAQ'ing off!
Posts: 3469
Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2015 4:28 pm

Re: Question about chords

Post by stutterer »

farmertom311 wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 7:53 pm
3
2
4

I call that chord above the KISS chord. You can move it up and down the neck anywhere and it’s in like 90% of KISS songs. Has nothing to do with the OPs post just something I find interesting lol.
As in A chord, yes, the shape is featured in Talk to Me and Gimme A Feeling for example.
0-0
2-3
2-2
2-4
0-0
0-0

User avatar
Rockandrolloverman
Qualified to wear Ace's makeup!
Qualified to wear Ace's makeup!
Posts: 8737
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2007 7:11 pm

Re: Question about chords

Post by Rockandrolloverman »

Music theory -wise, it’s adding a (major) 7th. So you could accurately refer to it as a major seventh chord, although it lacks a third note

User avatar
stutterer
Spends too much time FAQ'ing off!
Spends too much time FAQ'ing off!
Posts: 3469
Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2015 4:28 pm

Re: Question about chords

Post by stutterer »

Bruce wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 7:47 pm
It's an inverted power chord.
No, a inverted power chord is exactly what the name implies, the second note of the power chord is lower than the root note.

I'm talking about the slide of the root note itself one fret down, so the chord effectively turns into...hey it turns into an iverted major chord! Okay that's more like it. Thanks. Basically G turns into an inverted D major.
Last edited by stutterer on Wed Dec 04, 2019 8:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

farmertom311
Full KISS Army Member
Full KISS Army Member
Posts: 280
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2019 6:20 am

Re: Question about chords

Post by farmertom311 »

stutterer wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 7:59 pm
farmertom311 wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 7:53 pm
3
2
4

I call that chord above the KISS chord. You can move it up and down the neck anywhere and it’s in like 90% of KISS songs. Has nothing to do with the OPs post just something I find interesting lol.
As in A chord, yes, the shape is featured in Talk to Me and Gimme A Feeling for example.
0-0
2-3
2-2
2-4
0-0
0-0

Also shock me at the A position. Oh and lick it up

Then at the 7th fret it’s RARAN

4th fret it’s the chorus to shout it out loud

It’s even in love gun albeit very sparingly

User avatar
stutterer
Spends too much time FAQ'ing off!
Spends too much time FAQ'ing off!
Posts: 3469
Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2015 4:28 pm

Re: Question about chords

Post by stutterer »

farmertom311 wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 8:07 pm
Also shock me at the A position. Oh and lick it up

Then at the 7th fret it’s RARAN

4th fret it’s the chorus to shout it out loud

It’s even in love gun albeit very sparingly
Funny enough my #AceRootSlide and your #KissKhord along with the #ShockMeLowG-bend are all featured in Vinnie's music but it sounds nothing like Kiss or Ace.

User avatar
banks
Qualified to wear Ace's makeup!
Qualified to wear Ace's makeup!
Posts: 9003
Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2009 3:56 am
Location: Finland

Re: Question about chords

Post by banks »

A major chord with the third on the bottom. It's often used as a passing chord, but can still be called a major chord IMO.

For example, if you move the root of the G power chord one fret lower, it's a D/F# chord. It doesn't have the fifth, but chords don't have to have all the notes.

Check out Queen's One Vision, for example. One guitar plays the verse riff this way. Another guitar (I think) plus keyboards play full chords.

User avatar
Mr Slow
Qualified to wear Ace's makeup!
Qualified to wear Ace's makeup!
Posts: 7324
Joined: Thu May 05, 2016 3:48 pm

Re: Question about chords

Post by Mr Slow »

:shock:
This is why I play drums! :lol:

L1
Spends too much time FAQ'ing off!
Spends too much time FAQ'ing off!
Posts: 2523
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2008 9:21 am

Re: Question about chords

Post by L1 »

Mr Slow wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 2:51 am
:shock:
This is why I play drums! :lol:

Haha, me too! I don’t get anything of the above, still I find it fascinating and I want to understand.

User avatar
banks
Qualified to wear Ace's makeup!
Qualified to wear Ace's makeup!
Posts: 9003
Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2009 3:56 am
Location: Finland

Re: Question about chords

Post by banks »

:lol: Haha, a simplified version for you drummers. A chord has several notes, but the root note is not always played as the lowest note.

For example, the C major chord has the notes c, e and g. But the c note doesn't have to be the lowest. If the e note or the g note is played as the lowest note, it's called a chord "inversion". That's what this "Ace chord" is

User avatar
Tito
Spends too much time FAQ'ing off!
Spends too much time FAQ'ing off!
Posts: 4361
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2018 7:36 am
Location: Shady side of town.

Re: Question about chords

Post by Tito »

L1 wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 3:22 am
Mr Slow wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 2:51 am
:shock:
This is why I play drums! :lol:

Haha, me too! I don’t get anything of the above, still I find it fascinating and I want to understand.
:) I'm a guitarist and this kind of talk puts me to sleep. Pretty safe to say the same goes for Ace himself. :wink:

User avatar
banks
Qualified to wear Ace's makeup!
Qualified to wear Ace's makeup!
Posts: 9003
Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2009 3:56 am
Location: Finland

Re: Question about chords

Post by banks »

Tito wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 4:16 am
L1 wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 3:22 am
Mr Slow wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 2:51 am
:shock:
This is why I play drums! :lol:

Haha, me too! I don’t get anything of the above, still I find it fascinating and I want to understand.
:) I'm a guitarist and this kind of talk puts me to sleep. Pretty safe to say the same goes for Ace himself. :wink:
Ace does know what a triad and inversion is.

User avatar
stutterer
Spends too much time FAQ'ing off!
Spends too much time FAQ'ing off!
Posts: 3469
Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2015 4:28 pm

Re: Question about chords

Post by stutterer »

Thanks for the input guys.

User avatar
Going Blind
Super Elite KISS Fan
Super Elite KISS Fan
Posts: 1309
Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2012 10:21 pm

Re: Question about chords

Post by Going Blind »

I remember an article that refereed to Ace's technique as "Tripiling". However the same article kinda implied that its some sort of cheap trick to make you seem like a better guitar player than you really are. Now, I am not condemning, I am not a guitarist, much less a musician. Any guitar players here care to weigh in? To me if it sounds good, that's all that really matters, but what do I know?

User avatar
Wiped Out 78
Spends too much time FAQ'ing off!
Spends too much time FAQ'ing off!
Posts: 4457
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 7:40 am

Re: Question about chords

Post by Wiped Out 78 »

Going Blind wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 6:59 am
I remember an article that refereed to Ace's technique as "Tripiling". However the same article kinda implied that its some sort of cheap trick to make you seem like a better guitar player than you really are. Now, I am not condemning, I am not a guitarist, much less a musician. Any guitar players here care to weigh in? To me if it sounds good, that's all that really matters, but what do I know?
It's not a trick. It's a chordal technique used by a zillion rock guitarists:

Queen - One Vision
38 Special - Hold On Loosely
AC/DC - What Do You Do For Money (verse)

Those are just off the top of my head.

BlackAce
Banned
Banned
Posts: 1263
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2019 6:08 pm

Re: Question about chords

Post by BlackAce »

banks wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 5:24 am
Tito wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 4:16 am
L1 wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 3:22 am
Mr Slow wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 2:51 am
:shock:
This is why I play drums! :lol:

Haha, me too! I don’t get anything of the above, still I find it fascinating and I want to understand.
:) I'm a guitarist and this kind of talk puts me to sleep. Pretty safe to say the same goes for Ace himself. :wink:
Ace does know what a triad and inversion is.
Ace doesn't know what day it is

User avatar
vaspaceman
Trained by Tommy!
Trained by Tommy!
Posts: 543
Joined: Thu Dec 07, 2006 2:17 pm

Re: Question about chords

Post by vaspaceman »

Wiped Out 78 wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 7:18 am
Going Blind wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 6:59 am
I remember an article that refereed to Ace's technique as "Tripiling". However the same article kinda implied that its some sort of cheap trick to make you seem like a better guitar player than you really are. Now, I am not condemning, I am not a guitarist, much less a musician. Any guitar players here care to weigh in? To me if it sounds good, that's all that really matters, but what do I know?
It's not a trick. It's a chordal technique used by a zillion rock guitarists:

Queen - One Vision
38 Special - Hold On Loosely
AC/DC - What Do You Do For Money (verse)

Those are just off the top of my head.

All great examples! Hold on Loosely is probably my favorite out of that group. Also the last part of the intro riff to Hells Bells before it repeats. (AC/DC)

User avatar
banks
Qualified to wear Ace's makeup!
Qualified to wear Ace's makeup!
Posts: 9003
Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2009 3:56 am
Location: Finland

Re: Question about chords

Post by banks »

Kiss knew about chords even back in '73. Look at the Cold Gin riff. It's basically A, G, D, G, D, G, A. (The D is the "Ace chord"). The G chord in Ace's riff lacks the 3rd and Paul plays it. Ace's D chord lacks the 5th and Paul plays it. Paul's guitar part intentionally adds the "missing" notes to make those chords full triads between the two guitars. Not that Paul was necessarily thinking of "3rds" and "5ths", but he knew which notes were "missing".

This is VERY basic stuff and I don't even consider it "theory" yet. IMO it's about knowing the basics of an instrument and playing music. Now, whatever all those things are CALLED is often beside the point, but knowing it tends to make communication go faster. That's why Ezrin put the guys "to school". 8)

So the most simple answer to the original question: It's a major chord with one note missing. :mrgreen:

User avatar
stutterer
Spends too much time FAQ'ing off!
Spends too much time FAQ'ing off!
Posts: 3469
Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2015 4:28 pm

Re: Question about chords

Post by stutterer »

banks wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 5:52 am
Now, whatever all those things are CALLED is often beside the point, but knowing it tends to make communication go faster.
That's exactly why I was asking, to tell people what to play in a matter of several digits per chord. I knew both parts to Cold Gin but didn't put two and two together so to speak. Thanks for the insight, this is valuable to me.

Heaven's on Fire
Banned
Banned
Posts: 73
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2019 12:27 am

Re: Question about chords

Post by Heaven's on Fire »

It possibly could also be considered an inverted pedal point (or sometimes called a pedal tone). Basically the high D note stays static while the bass note moves between the G and F#.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedal_point#Types

But considering it an inversion of the D major chord is probably the most accurate description.

User avatar
stutterer
Spends too much time FAQ'ing off!
Spends too much time FAQ'ing off!
Posts: 3469
Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2015 4:28 pm

Re: Question about chords

Post by stutterer »

Heaven's on Fire wrote:
Sat Dec 21, 2019 2:23 pm
It possibly could also be considered an inverted pedal point (or sometimes called a pedal tone). Basically the high D note stays static while the bass note moves between the G and F#.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedal_point#Types

But considering it an inversion of the D major chord is probably the most accurate description.
Thanks. I didn't know the term, but this pedal point stuff is basically the style of 80s bass playing in Kiss and elsewhere, where the player just picks one low note over the entirety of everything that isn't a chorus.

User avatar
atowntommy
Trained by Tommy!
Trained by Tommy!
Posts: 859
Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2014 8:23 am
Location: Kentucky

Re: Question about chords

Post by atowntommy »

farmertom311 wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 7:53 pm
3
2
4

I call that chord above the KISS chord. You can move it up and down the neck anywhere and it’s in like 90% of KISS songs. Has nothing to do with the OPs post just something I find interesting lol.
That's a D chord of the first inversion. EVH is a fan of that voicing as was Rhodes. And everyone else, now that I think about it.


anyway, to the OP, It's a b6 (Flat 6th) . It's an inversion of the maj 3rd, so it basically implies a major chord.

Eddie Van Hazel
Qualified to wear Ace's makeup!
Qualified to wear Ace's makeup!
Posts: 6765
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2015 4:30 pm

Re: Question about chords

Post by Eddie Van Hazel »

George Lynch uses these chords a lot too.

User avatar
Randell Stevens
Trained by Tommy!
Trained by Tommy!
Posts: 869
Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2014 2:07 pm
Location: Dunlap, TN

Re: Question about chords

Post by Randell Stevens »

farmertom311 wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 8:07 pm
stutterer wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 7:59 pm
farmertom311 wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 7:53 pm
3
2
4

I call that chord above the KISS chord. You can move it up and down the neck anywhere and it’s in like 90% of KISS songs. Has nothing to do with the OPs post just something I find interesting lol.
As in A chord, yes, the shape is featured in Talk to Me and Gimme A Feeling for example.
0-0
2-3
2-2
2-4
0-0
0-0

Also shock me at the A position. Oh and lick it up

Then at the 7th fret it’s RARAN

4th fret it’s the chorus to shout it out loud

It’s even in love gun albeit very sparingly
And Black Diamond....

And Do You Love Me....

And I'm sure many more...

Then you also have the go-to for Mr. Stanley, used in Mr. Speed, Take Me, etc. Example 3rd and 4th strings both in 2nd fret and second string in 4th fret. I don't know the name of it either...in tabs it looks like this...

22 22
22 22
4. 4.

Etc. If you know Ace and Paul's go-to you can pretty much figure out anything from the classics catalog huh?

User avatar
Randell Stevens
Trained by Tommy!
Trained by Tommy!
Posts: 869
Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2014 2:07 pm
Location: Dunlap, TN

Re: Question about chords

Post by Randell Stevens »

It doesn't look like that when I type it lol...

jbromusic
Trained by Tommy!
Trained by Tommy!
Posts: 878
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:08 am
Location: your front yard

Re: Question about chords

Post by jbromusic »

Banks is 100% correct. It’s a first inversion major triad with no 5th. It’s a great way to get to the IV chord in a progression very quickly just by moving 1 note. Sometimes full triads don’t sound so good through a distorted amp and this is a great way to simplify the chord and get it to cut through the mix.
Last edited by jbromusic on Sun Dec 22, 2019 1:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Tommyr
Qualified to wear Ace's makeup!
Qualified to wear Ace's makeup!
Posts: 7855
Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2006 4:48 am
Location: NY

Re: Question about chords

Post by Tommyr »

This thread needs visuals. I think Justin guitar shows it on his How to play Rock & Roll all Nite lesson on his web site. IS this the chord you guys are talking about? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GaIulg3Q8M

User avatar
jannep17
Qualified to wear Ace's makeup!
Qualified to wear Ace's makeup!
Posts: 8770
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 1:07 pm

Re: Question about chords

Post by jannep17 »

BlackAce wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 8:33 am
banks wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 5:24 am
Tito wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 4:16 am
L1 wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 3:22 am
Mr Slow wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 2:51 am
:shock:
This is why I play drums! :lol:

Haha, me too! I don’t get anything of the above, still I find it fascinating and I want to understand.
:) I'm a guitarist and this kind of talk puts me to sleep. Pretty safe to say the same goes for Ace himself. :wink:
Ace does know what a triad and inversion is.
Ace doesn't know what day it is
Wait a minute, wasn't he the guy with the highest IQ in the band?

User avatar
ashorama
2,000 Man, baby!
2,000 Man, baby!
Posts: 2193
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 6:45 pm

Re: Question about chords

Post by ashorama »

stutterer wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 7:59 pm
farmertom311 wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 7:53 pm
3
2
4

I call that chord above the KISS chord. You can move it up and down the neck anywhere and it’s in like 90% of KISS songs. Has nothing to do with the OPs post just something I find interesting lol.
As in A chord, yes, the shape is featured in Talk to Me and Gimme A Feeling for example.
0-0
2-3
2-2
2-4
0-0
0-0
"Talk to Me" is playing in an Open G slide tuning a la Keith Richards.

farmertom311
Full KISS Army Member
Full KISS Army Member
Posts: 280
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2019 6:20 am

Re: Question about chords

Post by farmertom311 »

Tommyr wrote:
Sun Dec 22, 2019 5:19 am
This thread needs visuals. I think Justin guitar shows it on his How to play Rock & Roll all Nite lesson on his web site. IS this the chord you guys are talking about? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GaIulg3Q8M
Yes that opening riff is. But I don’t think he’s playing the rest of it right. Never have cared for that guy as teacher.

User avatar
Red_Walrus
Super Elite KISS Fan
Super Elite KISS Fan
Posts: 1368
Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2016 9:50 am
Location: "I live five days to your one"

Re: Question about chords

Post by Red_Walrus »

I always think of it as the Keith Richards move

Slurpee
Banned
Banned
Posts: 171
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2019 7:39 am

Re: Question about chords

Post by Slurpee »

I feel like everyone's over-thinking it. The third chord in Cold Gin is just a simple Augmented 5th.

jbromusic
Trained by Tommy!
Trained by Tommy!
Posts: 878
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:08 am
Location: your front yard

Re: Question about chords

Post by jbromusic »

Slurpee wrote:
Sun Dec 22, 2019 7:43 am
I feel like everyone's over-thinking it. The third chord in Cold Gin is just a simple Augmented 5th.
The interval is an augmented 5th but that only gives you half of the picture. That doesn't tell you how the chord functions in a chord progression. If you know the song is in the key of A and you know that the chord is D/F# (with no 5th), you understand that it is the IV chord.
Last edited by jbromusic on Sun Dec 22, 2019 1:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Nowpagetwo
Ready to sing Beth!
Ready to sing Beth!
Posts: 476
Joined: Tue Sep 02, 2014 2:53 pm

Re: Question about chords

Post by Nowpagetwo »

Well at least this not a thread about " shredding ". Thank God...

User avatar
banks
Qualified to wear Ace's makeup!
Qualified to wear Ace's makeup!
Posts: 9003
Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2009 3:56 am
Location: Finland

Re: Question about chords

Post by banks »

jbromusic wrote:
Sun Dec 22, 2019 12:44 pm
Slurpee wrote:
Sun Dec 22, 2019 7:43 am
I feel like everyone's over-thinking it. The third chord in Cold Gin is just a simple Augmented 5th.
The interval is an augmented 5th but that only gives you half of the picture. That doesn't tell you how the chord functions in a chord progression. If you know the song is in the key of A and you know that the chord is D/F# (with no 5th), you understand that it is the IV chord.
THIS. Plus, Paul's part is based on that.

But if we want to follow the path of intervals, it's a minor 6th in this context.

jbromusic
Trained by Tommy!
Trained by Tommy!
Posts: 878
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:08 am
Location: your front yard

Re: Question about chords

Post by jbromusic »

banks wrote:
Sun Dec 22, 2019 11:19 pm
jbromusic wrote:
Sun Dec 22, 2019 12:44 pm
Slurpee wrote:
Sun Dec 22, 2019 7:43 am
I feel like everyone's over-thinking it. The third chord in Cold Gin is just a simple Augmented 5th.
The interval is an augmented 5th but that only gives you half of the picture. That doesn't tell you how the chord functions in a chord progression. If you know the song is in the key of A and you know that the chord is D/F# (with no 5th), you understand that it is the IV chord.
THIS. Plus, Paul's part is based on that.

But if we want to follow the path of intervals, it's a minor 6th in this context.
Once again, you are correct!

Nellcote71
Spends too much time FAQ'ing off!
Spends too much time FAQ'ing off!
Posts: 2606
Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2014 7:26 pm

Re: Question about chords

Post by Nellcote71 »

It’s kinda like a quasi bar chord that you can move up and down the neck while at the same time incorporating open notes that sympathetically resonate

Slurpee
Banned
Banned
Posts: 171
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2019 7:39 am

Re: Question about chords

Post by Slurpee »

jbromusic wrote:
Sun Dec 22, 2019 12:44 pm
Slurpee wrote:
Sun Dec 22, 2019 7:43 am
I feel like everyone's over-thinking it. The third chord in Cold Gin is just a simple Augmented 5th.
The interval is an augmented 5th but that only gives you half of the picture. That doesn't tell you how the chord functions in a chord progression. If you know the song is in the key of A and you know that the chord is D/F# (with no 5th), you understand that it is the IV chord.
You and I know about IV's, and inversions, and triads, and Phrygian Mode, and The Circle of Fifths, etc., but I don't think the OP does. What he specifically asked was NOT "How does music theory explain the following phenomenon?", but rather simply (paraphrasing), "When a guitarist is playing a simple power chord then drops his pointer finger down one fret, what is that called?"

It's simply an Augmented 5th.

User avatar
stutterer
Spends too much time FAQ'ing off!
Spends too much time FAQ'ing off!
Posts: 3469
Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2015 4:28 pm

Re: Question about chords

Post by stutterer »

Slurpee wrote:
Tue Dec 24, 2019 9:57 am
You and I know about IV's, and inversions, and triads, and Phrygian Mode, and The Circle of Fifths, etc., but I don't think the OP does. What he specifically asked was NOT "How does music theory explain the following phenomenon?", but rather simply (paraphrasing), "When a guitarist is playing a simple power chord then drops his pointer finger down one fret, what is that called?"

It's simply an Augmented 5th.
Thanks)

User avatar
banks
Qualified to wear Ace's makeup!
Qualified to wear Ace's makeup!
Posts: 9003
Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2009 3:56 am
Location: Finland

Re: Question about chords

Post by banks »

Slurpee wrote:
Tue Dec 24, 2019 9:57 am
jbromusic wrote:
Sun Dec 22, 2019 12:44 pm
Slurpee wrote:
Sun Dec 22, 2019 7:43 am
I feel like everyone's over-thinking it. The third chord in Cold Gin is just a simple Augmented 5th.
The interval is an augmented 5th but that only gives you half of the picture. That doesn't tell you how the chord functions in a chord progression. If you know the song is in the key of A and you know that the chord is D/F# (with no 5th), you understand that it is the IV chord.
You and I know about IV's, and inversions, and triads, and Phrygian Mode, and The Circle of Fifths, etc., but I don't think the OP does. What he specifically asked was NOT "How does music theory explain the following phenomenon?", but rather simply (paraphrasing), "When a guitarist is playing a simple power chord then drops his pointer finger down one fret, what is that called?"

It's simply an Augmented 5th.
In that tonal context it's a minor 6th, if we want to say the interval. Not that it sounds any different with a guitar. For a violin player and a singer they are slightly different.

I don't see why we shouldn't mention which chord it is - or in what way it's more complicated. The E power chord has only two notes, but we call it an E5 chord. When the notes are F sharp and D, IMO it's more simple to say it's a D/F# chord than "it's a minor 6th (or augmented 5th) starting from F sharp" and it also gives a hint what could be played on top of it with other instruments.

Having said all that, I don't actually disagree with you either, because the chord could also be G/F# or Bm/F#. :mrgreen: I mentioned the chord that is perhaps most often used in rock music. And in Cold Gin it is a major chord. Paul's part adds the "missing" note. Cold Gin was mentioned in the original post.

I didn't get the vibe that we were confusing the OP. I don't think it harms anyone to explain it both in terms of intervals and chords. 8)

jbromusic
Trained by Tommy!
Trained by Tommy!
Posts: 878
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:08 am
Location: your front yard

Re: Question about chords

Post by jbromusic »

banks wrote:
Tue Dec 24, 2019 12:29 pm
Slurpee wrote:
Tue Dec 24, 2019 9:57 am
jbromusic wrote:
Sun Dec 22, 2019 12:44 pm
Slurpee wrote:
Sun Dec 22, 2019 7:43 am
I feel like everyone's over-thinking it. The third chord in Cold Gin is just a simple Augmented 5th.
The interval is an augmented 5th but that only gives you half of the picture. That doesn't tell you how the chord functions in a chord progression. If you know the song is in the key of A and you know that the chord is D/F# (with no 5th), you understand that it is the IV chord.
You and I know about IV's, and inversions, and triads, and Phrygian Mode, and The Circle of Fifths, etc., but I don't think the OP does. What he specifically asked was NOT "How does music theory explain the following phenomenon?", but rather simply (paraphrasing), "When a guitarist is playing a simple power chord then drops his pointer finger down one fret, what is that called?"

It's simply an Augmented 5th.
In that tonal context it's a minor 6th, if we want to say the interval. Not that it sounds any different with a guitar. For a violin player and a singer they are slightly different.

I don't see why we shouldn't mention which chord it is - or in what way it's more complicated. The E power chord has only two notes, but we call it an E5 chord. When the notes are F sharp and D, IMO it's more simple to say it's a D/F# chord than "it's a minor 6th (or augmented 5th) starting from F sharp" and it also gives a hint what could be played on top of it with other instruments.

Having said all that, I don't actually disagree with you either, because the chord could also be G/F# or Bm/F#. :mrgreen: I mentioned the chord that is perhaps most often used in rock music. And in Cold Gin it is a major chord. Paul's part adds the "missing" note. Cold Gin was mentioned in the original post.

I didn't get the vibe that we were confusing the OP. I don't think it harms anyone to explain it both in terms of intervals and chords. 8)




"IMO it's more simple to say it's a D/F# chord than "it's a minor 6th (or augmented 5th) starting from F sharp" and it also gives a hint what could be played on top of it with other instruments"


Bingo and it's going to be more beneficial to the OP (if he or she is a guitarist/songwriter) to understand which chord it is and how it functions in a chord progression.

User avatar
banks
Qualified to wear Ace's makeup!
Qualified to wear Ace's makeup!
Posts: 9003
Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2009 3:56 am
Location: Finland

Re: Question about chords

Post by banks »

jbromusic wrote:
Tue Dec 24, 2019 1:42 pm
banks wrote:
Tue Dec 24, 2019 12:29 pm
Slurpee wrote:
Tue Dec 24, 2019 9:57 am
jbromusic wrote:
Sun Dec 22, 2019 12:44 pm
Slurpee wrote:
Sun Dec 22, 2019 7:43 am
I feel like everyone's over-thinking it. The third chord in Cold Gin is just a simple Augmented 5th.
The interval is an augmented 5th but that only gives you half of the picture. That doesn't tell you how the chord functions in a chord progression. If you know the song is in the key of A and you know that the chord is D/F# (with no 5th), you understand that it is the IV chord.
You and I know about IV's, and inversions, and triads, and Phrygian Mode, and The Circle of Fifths, etc., but I don't think the OP does. What he specifically asked was NOT "How does music theory explain the following phenomenon?", but rather simply (paraphrasing), "When a guitarist is playing a simple power chord then drops his pointer finger down one fret, what is that called?"

It's simply an Augmented 5th.
In that tonal context it's a minor 6th, if we want to say the interval. Not that it sounds any different with a guitar. For a violin player and a singer they are slightly different.

I don't see why we shouldn't mention which chord it is - or in what way it's more complicated. The E power chord has only two notes, but we call it an E5 chord. When the notes are F sharp and D, IMO it's more simple to say it's a D/F# chord than "it's a minor 6th (or augmented 5th) starting from F sharp" and it also gives a hint what could be played on top of it with other instruments.

Having said all that, I don't actually disagree with you either, because the chord could also be G/F# or Bm/F#. :mrgreen: I mentioned the chord that is perhaps most often used in rock music. And in Cold Gin it is a major chord. Paul's part adds the "missing" note. Cold Gin was mentioned in the original post.

I didn't get the vibe that we were confusing the OP. I don't think it harms anyone to explain it both in terms of intervals and chords. 8)




"IMO it's more simple to say it's a D/F# chord than "it's a minor 6th (or augmented 5th) starting from F sharp" and it also gives a hint what could be played on top of it with other instruments"


Bingo and it's going to be more beneficial to the OP (if he or she is a guitarist/songwriter) to understand which chord it is and how it functions in a chord progression.
I don't mind the interval explanation, but I think it's a bit silly to argue amongst ourselves which explanation is "the king". Until the OP tells us "you're confusing me, please stop", I'm going to assume that it's all good.

User avatar
LordThurisaz
Nearly as many posts as KISS compilations!
Nearly as many posts as KISS compilations!
Posts: 19308
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2007 3:37 pm
Location: Leader of the Misery Brigade

Re: Question about chords

Post by LordThurisaz »

You mean like in the main verse riff to Rock Soldiers right before the riff turns around?

User avatar
LordThurisaz
Nearly as many posts as KISS compilations!
Nearly as many posts as KISS compilations!
Posts: 19308
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2007 3:37 pm
Location: Leader of the Misery Brigade

Re: Question about chords

Post by LordThurisaz »

Rockandrolloverman wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 8:05 pm
Music theory -wise, it’s adding a (major) 7th. So you could accurately refer to it as a major seventh chord, although it lacks a third note
I kind of disagree that it's a major seventh. Mainly because moving from the 5th fret D (A string) to 4th fret C# changes the root. Instead, I look at it as the fifth becoming a minor sixth. This becomes particularly evident if you do not go back and forth, but instead have palm muted notes inbetween. The bass would also has to change the root note. The stationary A note (7th fret) on the D string changes from being a fifth to a minor sixth.

Also, you can do it the George Lynch way, and keep the root note stationary instead, like in the Dokken tune In My Dreams.

Anyways, here is a riff I wrote in about two minutes to show what I mean.

Image

BlackAce
Banned
Banned
Posts: 1263
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2019 6:08 pm

Re: Question about chords

Post by BlackAce »

I can't believe a finger away on the fretboard has caused this huge debate 😂

Cold Gin, Rip it Out or Hard Times

Literally a thousand Ace riff is on its basis

Post Reply