New EOTR Boxscore

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Re: New EOTR Boxscore

Post by Vandelay Industries » Wed Dec 04, 2019 8:58 am

Good for G&P if they're pocketing more on this tour than any other (as far as we know, anyway). If the narrative was that from the start, and was clearly stated as such without any poli-speak involved, then I'm pretty sure we'd all be in agreement. Instead, we keep getting cherry-picked data without any context, so of course people are gonna have something to say about it. My favorite cherry-picking is whenever I see random Farewell tour data cited as some sort of dig, while failing to mention the tour was popular enough for the band to jam nearly 120 US shows into their itinerary in less than 7 months :lol:

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Re: New EOTR Boxscore

Post by TheSpoiler » Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:17 am

Crown Royal wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 8:00 am
Thayerscomet wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 4:33 pm
IMG_20191202_173113_968.jpgAt the end of tbe day the most successful tours are based on grossed dollar amount.Thats the standard pollstar and the industry goes by who had the biggest grossing tour.Its all about the $$$$$
Yes, Pollstar measures success by gross profit. That is one way to measure success.

But for the 345,899th time, this argument was never about gross profit at first. It was about the popularity and the success of a tour BASED ON THE AMOUNT OF PEOPLE WHO ATTENDED THE SHOWS

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Re: New EOTR Boxscore

Post by Crown Royal » Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:18 am

TheSpoiler wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:17 am
Crown Royal wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 8:00 am
Thayerscomet wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 4:33 pm
IMG_20191202_173113_968.jpgAt the end of tbe day the most successful tours are based on grossed dollar amount.Thats the standard pollstar and the industry goes by who had the biggest grossing tour.Its all about the $$$$$
Yes, Pollstar measures success by gross profit. That is one way to measure success.

But for the 345,899th time, this argument was never about gross profit at first. It was about the popularity and the success of a tour BASED ON THE AMOUNT OF PEOPLE WHO ATTENDED THE SHOWS
Thank you for quoting me 8)

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Re: New EOTR Boxscore

Post by TheSpoiler » Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:19 am

Crown Royal wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 8:37 am
TheSpoiler wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 8:31 am


It's not a compliment and you're not important enough, Frownie. ;)
You follow me around. You've given me a nickname.

It's very important to you, and I occupy the penthouse suite in your head. 8)
Well, not quite. You're just the loudest whiner. :lol:

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Re: New EOTR Boxscore

Post by TheSpoiler » Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:20 am

Crown Royal wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:18 am
TheSpoiler wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:17 am
Crown Royal wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 8:00 am
Thayerscomet wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 4:33 pm
IMG_20191202_173113_968.jpgAt the end of tbe day the most successful tours are based on grossed dollar amount.Thats the standard pollstar and the industry goes by who had the biggest grossing tour.Its all about the $$$$$
Yes, Pollstar measures success by gross profit. That is one way to measure success.

But for the 345,899th time, this argument was never about gross profit at first. It was about the popularity and the success of a tour BASED ON THE AMOUNT OF PEOPLE WHO ATTENDED THE SHOWS
Thank you for quoting me 8)
Even my phone thinks you're a cock. :lol:

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Re: New EOTR Boxscore

Post by Crown Royal » Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:21 am

TheSpoiler wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:20 am
Crown Royal wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:18 am
TheSpoiler wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:17 am
Crown Royal wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 8:00 am
Thayerscomet wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 4:33 pm
IMG_20191202_173113_968.jpgAt the end of tbe day the most successful tours are based on grossed dollar amount.Thats the standard pollstar and the industry goes by who had the biggest grossing tour.Its all about the $$$$$
Yes, Pollstar measures success by gross profit. That is one way to measure success.

But for the 345,899th time, this argument was never about gross profit at first. It was about the popularity and the success of a tour BASED ON THE AMOUNT OF PEOPLE WHO ATTENDED THE SHOWS
Thank you for quoting me 8)
Even my phone thinks you're a cock. :lol:


Your anger is entertaining :lol:

But you should really learn to move on.

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Re: New EOTR Boxscore

Post by TheSpoiler » Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:50 am

Crown Royal wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:21 am
TheSpoiler wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:20 am
Crown Royal wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:18 am
TheSpoiler wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:17 am
Crown Royal wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 8:00 am
Thayerscomet wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 4:33 pm
IMG_20191202_173113_968.jpgAt the end of tbe day the most successful tours are based on grossed dollar amount.Thats the standard pollstar and the industry goes by who had the biggest grossing tour.Its all about the $$$$$
Yes, Pollstar measures success by gross profit. That is one way to measure success.

But for the 345,899th time, this argument was never about gross profit at first. It was about the popularity and the success of a tour BASED ON THE AMOUNT OF PEOPLE WHO ATTENDED THE SHOWS
Thank you for quoting me 8)
Even my phone thinks you're a cock. :lol:


Your anger is entertaining :lol:

But you should really learn to move on.
You like to think you make people angry, which is strange. An interesting arrogance since you seem to be able to back nothing up. You're more like a dog humping someone's leg.

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Re: New EOTR Boxscore

Post by Crown Royal » Wed Dec 04, 2019 10:21 am

TheSpoiler wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:50 am


You like to think you make people angry, which is strange. An interesting arrogance since you seem to be able to back nothing up. You're more like a dog humping someone's leg.
Son (I'm patting you on the head now), you really need to move on. This multi-day-Forever 12er hissy-fit you've been having lately is not becoming at all.

I'll be a dog humping a leg, whatever you need me to be while I occupy the penthouse apartment in your head ...but it's really time to move on.

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Re: New EOTR Boxscore

Post by TheSpoiler » Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:27 am

Crown Royal wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 10:21 am
TheSpoiler wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:50 am


You like to think you make people angry, which is strange. An interesting arrogance since you seem to be able to back nothing up. You're more like a dog humping someone's leg.
Son (I'm patting you on the head now), you really need to move on. This multi-day-Forever 12er hissy-fit you've been having lately is not becoming at all.

I'll be a dog humping a leg, whatever you need me to be while I occupy the penthouse apartment in your head ...but it's really time to move on.
That's all well-practised Trolling 101 material, Brother Gloom - but please be assured I am not following you around. It's just difficult to avoid stepping in the misery you enjoy dumping all around the board while you hump peoples legs for attention. :lol:

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Re: New EOTR Boxscore

Post by Admin » Wed Dec 04, 2019 12:21 pm

And the last one from leg 3...

Aug. 14 - Prudential Center, Newark, NJ
Reported audience: 11,135 **SOLD-OUT
Reported gross: $1,195,968
Avg. price-per-ticket: $107.41

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Re: New EOTR Boxscore

Post by Mr Slow » Wed Dec 04, 2019 12:51 pm

Admin wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 12:21 pm
And the last one from leg 3...

Aug. 14 - Prudential Center, Newark, NJ
Reported audience: 11,135 **SOLD-OUT
Reported gross: $1,195,968
Avg. price-per-ticket: $107.41
I’ve been trying to find the running tally. It was around 70 shows so far. I know yourself or maybe Nibbs shared it a little while ago. Do you have that available by any chance? Thanks in advance. 8)

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Re: New EOTR Boxscore

Post by Mr Slow » Wed Dec 04, 2019 1:04 pm

Vandelay Industries wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 7:31 am
Mr Slow wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:13 pm
Vandelay Industries wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 5:49 pm
Concert ticket inflation has exceeded the standard inflation rate, as Anomaly (and others before him, often) pointed out already. It was already double the standard rate by 2016....with dynamic pricing being the current gouging method, it wouldn't be surprising at all if it's since tripled.
But doesn’t that make the 12,000 people seeing KISS in 2019 (versus less than 14,000 in 1996) even more impressive? Even with a full scale reunion (first time together in 17 years), a return to the makeup and classic KISS show (first time in 14 years) and a much cheaper ticket (according to you about one third the price), the original band could only pull a couple thousand more than only 2 originals members, playing the same tired setlist and show and now featuring 2 imposters 20 years later. Wow KISS in 2019 really are killin’ it! 8)
The thing is, no one is denying that the EOTR is successful, so I don't know why the defenders keep claiming otherwise.

This isn't an either/or or black/white discussion, or it shouldn't be anyway. But like I've said before, using the same criteria when comparing different eras is just deception. You do realize that for that $100 average ticket price, most people entered the venue paying less than that, and many even paid less than they would've for an AW ticket? But thanks to a small percentage of overzealous ticket buyers for each date, they drive the average up to $100 by paying obnoxious amounts of money for their own tickets.

The X factor here (besides inflation, obviously) is dynamic pricing. It was no secret that people were opening their wallets for AW tickets after many of those shows quickly sold out....if those same people had the chance to pay that same amount, but it counted as an "official" purchase as opposed to a secondary purchase, you think those gate numbers would've remain unchanged? Hell, the AW gates might've matched the EOTR gates without inflation adjustment.

Different rules in different eras.
That’s fair. But to my mind there’s no other way to measure the success aside from money made or tickets sold. If you compare money made, well there is no comparison. EOTR wins comfortably. If you compare tickets sold then on the surface the AW tour wins narrowly but as I said earlier, it had a lot more going for it because it was a return to the legendary version of the band, which we hadn’t seen in almost 2 decades. The EOTR tour is just more of the same from the past 15 years, give or take.

With the price of concert tickets apparently tripling over the past several years and KISS’ only real draw card (according to many of you guys) is that it’s the last tour, the EOTR shouldn’t even be close to AW.

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Re: New EOTR Boxscore

Post by Crown Royal » Wed Dec 04, 2019 1:08 pm

Mr Slow wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 1:04 pm


That’s fair. But to my mind there’s no other way to measure the success aside from money made or tickets sold. If you compare money made, well there is no comparison. EOTR wins comfortably. If you compare tickets sold then on the surface the AW tour wins narrowly but as I said earlier, it had a lot more going for it because it was a return to the legendary version of the band, which we hadn’t seen in almost 2 decades.

This is correct. And information any KISS fan would know going into EOTR.

Yet Nibbsy was willing to die on the hill of EOTR THE BIGGEST EVER IN BOTH CATEGORIES

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Re: New EOTR Boxscore

Post by Wichita77 » Wed Dec 04, 2019 1:11 pm

I just couldn't be happier for the boys. Who would have predicted in 1970s that they'd be touring arenas in their 70s? (Gene anyway and Paul close behind.)

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Re: New EOTR Boxscore

Post by Crown Royal » Wed Dec 04, 2019 1:13 pm

Mr Slow wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 1:04 pm


With the price of concert tickets apparently tripling over the past several years and KISS’ only real draw card (according to many of you guys) is that it’s the last tour, the EOTR shouldn’t even be close to AW.
Why?

Two marketing strategies are like Willy Wonka's golden ticket for bands: Reunion and Farewell. Both draw off the same thing: nostalgia: hey, it's good to see you again and hey, it's sad to see you go.

If anything, farewell shows pull at the heart (thus purse) strings even more, because you will never see them again (supposedly). With the reunion, yeah, it was the original four back in makeup, and that was huge, but KISS had been a touring entity in one capacity or another years leading up to that.

KISS is back! YES! for how long? who knows.

KISS is retiring, never to be seen again.

Farewell marketing schemes are just as powerful as reunion schemes, in fact probably more so.

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Re: New EOTR Boxscore

Post by Mr Slow » Wed Dec 04, 2019 2:18 pm

Crown Royal wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 1:08 pm
Mr Slow wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 1:04 pm


That’s fair. But to my mind there’s no other way to measure the success aside from money made or tickets sold. If you compare money made, well there is no comparison. EOTR wins comfortably. If you compare tickets sold then on the surface the AW tour wins narrowly but as I said earlier, it had a lot more going for it because it was a return to the legendary version of the band, which we hadn’t seen in almost 2 decades.

This is correct. And information any KISS fan would know going into EOTR.

Yet Nibbsy was willing to die on the hill of EOTR THE BIGGEST EVER IN BOTH CATEGORIES
What were you saying about someone following you around and giving you a nickname? Who has gotten into who’s head? :lol:

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Re: New EOTR Boxscore

Post by necronomicon » Wed Dec 04, 2019 2:35 pm

Anomaly wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 1:46 pm
If you're going off of commercial performance, you've got to contextualize it with the changing of the concert industry. Ticket prices alone this year are 3.5x higher than they were in 1996. So, the only way you can compare 1996 to 2019 is by adjusting the box office scores from 1996. Strict dollar-to-dollar comparisons between 1996 and 2019 is ridiculous.

So, let's do a quick comparison with adjusted box scores from 1996 compared to some of the opening dates of EotR.

---------

Vancouver
1996: $1,374,863 || 2019: $1,551,414

Portland
1996: $1,688,459 || 2019: $1,442,984

Tacoma
1996: $2,016,052 || 2019: $1,464,975

Spokane
1996: $1,028,912 || 2019: $634,166

San Diego
1996: $1,293,985 || 2019: $876,677

Sacramento
1996: $1,425,560 || 2019: $1,444,937

Phoenix/Glendale
1996: $1,821,981 || 2019: $1,223,363

Las Vegas
1996: $2,055,655 || 2019: $1,442,534

---------

Not sure how many folks are saying EotR isn't performing well commercially, as clearly it is when compared to the recent commercial performance of this band at the concert box office and in comparison to their contemporaries, but it's clear that Alive/Worldwide was the bigger tour.
The presentation of this data is rife with so many fallacies that it is utterly ridiculous. I’ll just start with the obvious, though:

Do you believe that because health insurance as an aggregate industry is roughly 10x more expensive than it was 30 years ago, that individual health insurance companies have to sell 10x the amount to be doing as well as they were 30 years ago? Of course you don’t. Same goes for any other commodity. It’s like you want to penalize KISS for being able to charge twice as many real dollars as they were 23 years ago and still draw 11k a night.

The fact remains that this band is receiving a higher real guarantee than they were in 1996. That is the only metric that matters when a band evaluates its financial position. How much real money are we being paid every night. And it’s more than ever.

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Re: New EOTR Boxscore

Post by nibbler1982 » Wed Dec 04, 2019 2:52 pm

Crown Royal is a liar. I wish there was something I can do to curtail him from his libelous comments. He goes completely out of his way to chase me around this board like a kid with a schoolgirl crush.

I do appreciate how the educated FAQers see the charade for what it is.

Just to clarify the myriad erroneous comments, here it is once again from the beginning.

Before the first ticket was sold, I did believe EOTR would be KISS’ most successful tour. Not biggest, or most popular, or anything of the like. Those terms are more arbitrary, successful is not. Either way, my prediction was enough to send a bunch of off their bean. It’s driven some quite mad. Go figure.

Anyone can use any method they’d like to gauge success. Personally I take a page from the live music industry itself and do EXACTLY what Billboard and Pollstar does. Use gate receipts and gate receipts only to determine success.

By those parameters (and using Billboard’s methodology and their own words) I do believe EOTR has already outperformed Alive Worldwide.

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Re: New EOTR Boxscore

Post by TheSpoiler » Wed Dec 04, 2019 3:03 pm

Mr Slow wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 2:18 pm
Crown Royal wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 1:08 pm
Mr Slow wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 1:04 pm


That’s fair. But to my mind there’s no other way to measure the success aside from money made or tickets sold. If you compare money made, well there is no comparison. EOTR wins comfortably. If you compare tickets sold then on the surface the AW tour wins narrowly but as I said earlier, it had a lot more going for it because it was a return to the legendary version of the band, which we hadn’t seen in almost 2 decades.

This is correct. And information any KISS fan would know going into EOTR.

Yet Nibbsy was willing to die on the hill of EOTR THE BIGGEST EVER IN BOTH CATEGORIES
What were you saying about someone following you around and giving you a nickname? Who has gotten into who’s head? :lol:
If giving people nicknames is seemingly unassailable proof that they've "gotten into your head", I'm wondering why he calls me TheBoiler? :lol:

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Re: New EOTR Boxscore

Post by TheSpoiler » Wed Dec 04, 2019 3:06 pm

Frown Royal wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 1:13 pm
Farewell marketing schemes are just as powerful as reunion schemes, in fact probably more so.
But not in Kiss' case, back in 2000, right?

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Re: New EOTR Boxscore

Post by nibbler1982 » Wed Dec 04, 2019 3:20 pm

TheSpoiler wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 3:06 pm
Frown Royal wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 1:13 pm
Farewell marketing schemes are just as powerful as reunion schemes, in fact probably more so.
But not in Kiss' case, back in 2000, right?
On sheer absence of the “show” aspect missing from KISS’ concerts I do believe the “Reunion” was more of a shot in the ass than this “Farewell”.

Hmmm...that would be interesting. A comparative analysis of KISS in identical venues pre Reunion and post...and pre EOTR and current day.

I like it.

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Re: New EOTR Boxscore

Post by Doose » Wed Dec 04, 2019 4:19 pm

The ONLY reason KISS was the top concert tour of 1996 isn't because they posted such great numbers, it's because everyone else didn't post strong numbers. However, look at the numbers before and after 1996 (and these numbers are NOT adjusted for inflation):

1994/1995 - The Eagles - $142 million
1996/1997 - Michael Jackson - $165 million
1994 - Pink Floyd - $250 million
1994/1995 - The Rolling Stones - $320 million
1993 - Madonna - $70 million (in 39 shows!)

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Re: New EOTR Boxscore

Post by Crown Royal » Wed Dec 04, 2019 5:18 pm

TheSpoiler wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 3:06 pm
Frown Royal wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 1:13 pm
Farewell marketing schemes are just as powerful as reunion schemes, in fact probably more so.
But not in Kiss' case, back in 2000, right?
Can you show me where I said that?

And while you're at it, could you have the maid send up some room service to the penthouse? :lol:

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Re: New EOTR Boxscore

Post by Crown Royal » Wed Dec 04, 2019 5:19 pm

Mr Slow wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 2:18 pm
Crown Royal wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 1:08 pm
Mr Slow wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 1:04 pm


That’s fair. But to my mind there’s no other way to measure the success aside from money made or tickets sold. If you compare money made, well there is no comparison. EOTR wins comfortably. If you compare tickets sold then on the surface the AW tour wins narrowly but as I said earlier, it had a lot more going for it because it was a return to the legendary version of the band, which we hadn’t seen in almost 2 decades.

This is correct. And information any KISS fan would know going into EOTR.

Yet Nibbsy was willing to die on the hill of EOTR THE BIGGEST EVER IN BOTH CATEGORIES
What were you saying about someone following you around and giving you a nickname? Who has gotten into who’s head? :lol:
Your anger is justified, I do not hold it against you.

Your leader said AW ended in January, 1997. KISS says otherwise.

That one had to sting ...ouch!

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Re: New EOTR Boxscore

Post by Mr Slow » Wed Dec 04, 2019 5:33 pm

Crown Royal wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 5:19 pm
Mr Slow wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 2:18 pm
Crown Royal wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 1:08 pm
Mr Slow wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 1:04 pm


That’s fair. But to my mind there’s no other way to measure the success aside from money made or tickets sold. If you compare money made, well there is no comparison. EOTR wins comfortably. If you compare tickets sold then on the surface the AW tour wins narrowly but as I said earlier, it had a lot more going for it because it was a return to the legendary version of the band, which we hadn’t seen in almost 2 decades.

This is correct. And information any KISS fan would know going into EOTR.

Yet Nibbsy was willing to die on the hill of EOTR THE BIGGEST EVER IN BOTH CATEGORIES
What were you saying about someone following you around and giving you a nickname? Who has gotten into who’s head? :lol:
Your anger is justified, I do not hold it against you.

Your leader said AW ended in January, 1997. KISS says otherwise.

That one had to sting ...ouch!
Anger? I put a laughing emoji at the end of my comment! :lol: There’s another one!
Meanwhile, you gave people nicknames at precisely the same time you suggested giving nicknames was a sign of weakness. Care to address that? I’m guessing no.

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Re: New EOTR Boxscore

Post by Admin » Wed Dec 04, 2019 5:34 pm

FFS. Stop shaking your dicks at each other.

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Re: New EOTR Boxscore

Post by Admin » Wed Dec 04, 2019 6:14 pm

BTW, I'm the one who separated out the main '96 AW and '97 "Lost Cities" legs. Going to change that fucking phrasing in the 2020 edition... Lay off Nibs with that crap.

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