Who was more influential Kiss or The Ramones

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Who was more influential Kiss or The Ramones

Kiss
120
65%
Ramones
64
35%
 
Total votes: 184

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Who was more influential Kiss or The Ramones

Post by DaveinSpain »

Pretty straight forward question. Clearly Kiss were the biggest band in the world for a few years. I'm not debating who was bigger. Obviously Kiss sold millions more albums. But The Ramones are credited with starting a whole new genre of music. Yes The Ramones played 3 chords and wrote minimal lyrics. I also feel Kiss wrote basic 1970's arena rock songs. Great songs that I love, but they didn't reinvent the wheel musically. I'm not arguing who was better everyone has their own taste. I'm strictly speaking about influencing new generations of bands. I think The Ramones were more influential.
Without them who knows how punk music would come to be. Kiss definitely was the bigger band and maybe the biggest of the mid to late 70's, but The Ramones created a style of music that has gone on to create some of the biggest bands of today. People everywhere still wear their shirts. I don't see too many Kiss shirts out there today. People still start bands citing The Ramones as major influences. Ya don't hear too many people saying that about Kiss today.
I think The Ramones never got the credit they deserved in life as they do in death or post breakup. They are my 2 favorite bands and I love them pretty equally. I will say regardless of the outcome of the poll The Ramones definitely made the better movie of the 70's.
Last edited by DaveinSpain on Sat Sep 18, 2021 1:48 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Who was more influential Kiss or The Ramones

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Ramones
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Re: Who was more influential Kiss or The Ramones

Post by Grand Classic »

DaveinSpain wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 1:11 pm Pretty straight forward question. Clearly Kiss were the biggest band in the world for a few years. I'm not debating who was bigger. Obviously Kiss sold millions more albums. But The Ramones are credited with starting a whole new genre of music. Yes The Ramones played 3 chords and wrote minimal lyrics. I also feel Kiss wrote basic 1970's arena rock songs. Great songs that I love, but they didn't reinvent the wheel either musically. I'm not arguing who was better everyone has their own taste. I'm strictly speaking about influencing new generations of bands. I think The Ramones were more influential.
Without them who knows how punk music would come to be. Kiss definitely was the bigger band and maybe the biggest of the mid to late 70's, but The Ramones created a style of music that has gone on to create some of the biggest bands of today. People everywhere still wear their shirts. I don't see too many Kiss shirts out there today. I think The Ramones never got the credit they deserved in life as they do in death or post breakup. They are my 2 favorite bands and I love them pretty equally. I will say regardless of the outcome of the poll The Ramones definitely made the better movie of the 70's.
Were KISS really the biggest band in the world though? Or was it hype and Bogart/Aucoin marketing? They sure as shit weren't selling more records than a slew of bands.

I am not saying that KISS weren't a phenomenon, but the numbers don't actually add up in terms of actually being the biggest band in the world.
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Re: Who was more influential Kiss or The Ramones

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Grand Classic wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 1:19 pm
DaveinSpain wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 1:11 pm Pretty straight forward question. Clearly Kiss were the biggest band in the world for a few years. I'm not debating who was bigger. Obviously Kiss sold millions more albums. But The Ramones are credited with starting a whole new genre of music. Yes The Ramones played 3 chords and wrote minimal lyrics. I also feel Kiss wrote basic 1970's arena rock songs. Great songs that I love, but they didn't reinvent the wheel either musically. I'm not arguing who was better everyone has their own taste. I'm strictly speaking about influencing new generations of bands. I think The Ramones were more influential.
Without them who knows how punk music would come to be. Kiss definitely was the bigger band and maybe the biggest of the mid to late 70's, but The Ramones created a style of music that has gone on to create some of the biggest bands of today. People everywhere still wear their shirts. I don't see too many Kiss shirts out there today. I think The Ramones never got the credit they deserved in life as they do in death or post breakup. They are my 2 favorite bands and I love them pretty equally. I will say regardless of the outcome of the poll The Ramones definitely made the better movie of the 70's.
Were KISS really the biggest band in the world though? Or was it hype and Bogart/Aucoin marketing? They sure as shit weren't selling more records than a slew of bands.

I am not saying that KISS weren't a phenomenon, but the numbers don't actually add up in terms of actually being the biggest band in the world.
Well I think for 77 & 78 they may have been but I guess that's debatable. I was 1 & 2 years old in 77/78 so I can't really say.
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Re: Who was more influential Kiss or The Ramones

Post by DonnaDixon »

More influential to mediocre and/or irrelevant bands? The Ramones.
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Re: Who was more influential Kiss or The Ramones

Post by DaveinSpain »

DonnaDixon wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 1:33 pm More influential to mediocre and/or irrelevant bands? The Ramones.
I dislike bands like Green Day or The offspring but I certainly wouldn't call them irrelevant. And not to mention the thousands of punk band and then off shoot of hardcore music. None of that would of happened with out The Ramones. Hard rock was around before Kiss. Punk was not around before The Ramones. And again I'm not arguing who was better we all have our musical preferences.
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Re: Who was more influential Kiss or The Ramones

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Ramones. KISS were influential, but they didn't start any scenes of music.
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Re: Who was more influential Kiss or The Ramones

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Kiss covered a Ramones tune, Ramones never covered a Kiss tune, so... Ramones?
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Re: Who was more influential Kiss or The Ramones

Post by DaveinSpain »

I don't hold too much weight in magazine polls but The Ramones debut is always in the top half of most important albums ever. You never see Kiss on those list. Tho I'd say Alive! Certainly influenced the way live albums were made. It seems every rock band started releasing live albums after that. Either way I think this is an interesting debate if you can open your mind to accept that punk is music weather your a fan of it or not.
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Re: Who was more influential Kiss or The Ramones

Post by Anomaly »

1. The Ramones
2. At no point were KISS the biggest band in the world, not even in 77-78 or 96.
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Re: Who was more influential Kiss or The Ramones

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DaveinSpain wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 1:36 pm
DonnaDixon wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 1:33 pm More influential to mediocre and/or irrelevant bands? The Ramones.
I dislike bands like Green Day or The offspring but I certainly wouldn't call them irrelevant. And not to mention the thousands of punk band and then off shoot of hardcore music. None of that would of happened with out The Ramones. Hard rock was around before Kiss. Punk was not around before The Ramones. And again I'm not arguing who was better we all have our musical preferences.
I did not call those two bands irrelevant.
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Re: Who was more influential Kiss or The Ramones

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Dave Marsh LOVES them.
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Re: Who was more influential Kiss or The Ramones

Post by DaveinSpain »

DonnaDixon wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 1:50 pm
DaveinSpain wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 1:36 pm
DonnaDixon wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 1:33 pm More influential to mediocre and/or irrelevant bands? The Ramones.
I dislike bands like Green Day or The offspring but I certainly wouldn't call them irrelevant. And not to mention the thousands of punk band and then off shoot of hardcore music. None of that would of happened with out The Ramones. Hard rock was around before Kiss. Punk was not around before The Ramones. And again I'm not arguing who was better we all have our musical preferences.
I did not call those two bands irrelevant.
No you did not but you said more influential to mediocre or irrelevant bands. I was using 2 examples of very popular bands influenced by The Ramones is all.
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Re: Who was more influential Kiss or The Ramones

Post by Goodwilltowardsall »

Ramones have the tunes.
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Re: Who was more influential Kiss or The Ramones

Post by UglySickJoker »

My two favourite bands! I couldn’t care less who was more influential!
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Re: Who was more influential Kiss or The Ramones

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Both were successful in terms of selling T-shirts to millions of people who couldn't name more than three of their songs, but in this case it has to be Kiss, who were ubiquitous in North America for two or three years and managed to influence both the '80s hair metal and subsequent 90s grunge scenes. In the case of the Ramones, I'm not even sure they influenced the UK punk scene more than marginally.
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Re: Who was more influential Kiss or The Ramones

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UglySickJoker wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 1:55 pm My two favourite bands! I couldn’t care less who was more influential!
I totally agree my 2 favorite bands as well. And I guess I don't really care either. I'm just sitting at home watching TV and the thought popped in my head and I figured hey let me see what others think. Absolutely love both and always will. To me they are the most important bands of my life and helped shape who I am today. I don't have memories of life without Kiss in them. I was turned on by an older cousin when I was like 4. The makeup the live show just blew my little 4 year old mind. I started listening to The Ramones at about 11. Still pretty young and they helped turn me on to more punk and hardcore style music which is mainly my music of choice as I became a teen and young adult.
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Re: Who was more influential Kiss or The Ramones

Post by Tbond »

Grand Classic wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 1:19 pm
DaveinSpain wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 1:11 pm Pretty straight forward question. Clearly Kiss were the biggest band in the world for a few years. I'm not debating who was bigger. Obviously Kiss sold millions more albums. But The Ramones are credited with starting a whole new genre of music. Yes The Ramones played 3 chords and wrote minimal lyrics. I also feel Kiss wrote basic 1970's arena rock songs. Great songs that I love, but they didn't reinvent the wheel either musically. I'm not arguing who was better everyone has their own taste. I'm strictly speaking about influencing new generations of bands. I think The Ramones were more influential.
Without them who knows how punk music would come to be. Kiss definitely was the bigger band and maybe the biggest of the mid to late 70's, but The Ramones created a style of music that has gone on to create some of the biggest bands of today. People everywhere still wear their shirts. I don't see too many Kiss shirts out there today. I think The Ramones never got the credit they deserved in life as they do in death or post breakup. They are my 2 favorite bands and I love them pretty equally. I will say regardless of the outcome of the poll The Ramones definitely made the better movie of the 70's.
Were KISS really the biggest band in the world though? Or was it hype and Bogart/Aucoin marketing? They sure as shit weren't selling more records than a slew of bands.

I am not saying that KISS weren't a phenomenon, but the numbers don't actually add up in terms of actually being the biggest band in the world.
And The Ramones debut album took 38 years to go GOLD. They have a grand total of 2 gold albums out of 37 albums (studio, live, compilations) - -

People wear their T shirts? You mean mass marketing to hipsters calculates influence?

I get it--platinum albums, gold singles, and filling arenas isn't the end all and the be all of influence, but, in order to influence you have to make SOME sort of penetration into the general sales driven marketplace.

I don't see the Ramones doing that with any meaning. I mean, were these thousands of people the Ramones were allegedly influencing all passing around the same album instead of buying it themselves?

East coast journalist types decided the Ramones started some sort of musical revolution and fed it to the press, until people started accepting it as fact.

Nothing more.
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Re: Who was more influential Kiss or The Ramones

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Glasgow Kiss wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 1:56 pm Both were successful in terms of selling T-shirts to millions of people who couldn't name more than three of their songs, but in this case it has to be Kiss, who were ubiquitous in North America for two or three years and managed to influence both the '80s hair metal and subsequent 90s grunge scenes. In the case of the Ramones, I'm not even sure they influenced the UK punk scene more than marginally.
I'd say The Ramones had a big influence on grunge as well. Not saying Kiss didn't I agree they did too,but The Ramones did as well. Can't argue about the shirts tho. You ain't kidding about that.
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Re: Who was more influential Kiss or The Ramones

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Tbond wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 2:05 pm
Grand Classic wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 1:19 pm
DaveinSpain wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 1:11 pm Pretty straight forward question. Clearly Kiss were the biggest band in the world for a few years. I'm not debating who was bigger. Obviously Kiss sold millions more albums. But The Ramones are credited with starting a whole new genre of music. Yes The Ramones played 3 chords and wrote minimal lyrics. I also feel Kiss wrote basic 1970's arena rock songs. Great songs that I love, but they didn't reinvent the wheel either musically. I'm not arguing who was better everyone has their own taste. I'm strictly speaking about influencing new generations of bands. I think The Ramones were more influential.
Without them who knows how punk music would come to be. Kiss definitely was the bigger band and maybe the biggest of the mid to late 70's, but The Ramones created a style of music that has gone on to create some of the biggest bands of today. People everywhere still wear their shirts. I don't see too many Kiss shirts out there today. I think The Ramones never got the credit they deserved in life as they do in death or post breakup. They are my 2 favorite bands and I love them pretty equally. I will say regardless of the outcome of the poll The Ramones definitely made the better movie of the 70's.
Were KISS really the biggest band in the world though? Or was it hype and Bogart/Aucoin marketing? They sure as shit weren't selling more records than a slew of bands.

I am not saying that KISS weren't a phenomenon, but the numbers don't actually add up in terms of actually being the biggest band in the world.
And The Ramones debut album took 38 years to go GOLD. They have a grand total of 2 gold albums out of 37 albums (studio, live, compilations) - -

People wear their T shirts? You mean mass marketing to hipsters calculates influence?

I get it--platinum albums, gold singles, and filling arenas isn't the end all and the be all of influence, but, in order to influence you have to make SOME sort of penetration into the general sales driven marketplace.

I don't see the Ramones doing that with any meaning. I mean, were these thousands of people the Ramones were allegedly influencing all passing around the same album instead of buying it themselves?

East coast journalist types decided the Ramones started some sort of musical revolution and fed it to the press, until people started accepting it as fact.

Nothing more.
I respect your opinion but I do have say as a huge fan of underground music tape trading is a big deal. It's how we hear of new bands. Going to underground shows in pre internet days there was always a huge tape trading scene. Demos of new bands other bands bring to shows was a pretty common thing. You give them some demos or 7 inches of some of your local scene bands and they trade you for the same for bands from where they are from. Before all this Spotify & band camp stuff.
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Re: Who was more influential Kiss or The Ramones

Post by FIX »

Both huge bands with a huge imprint. I have to believe anyone who would say the Ramones just wanna get another jab in at KISS, or are maybe too cool for school. The influence speaks for itself. Maybe a side by side comparison is in order.

And even though I Love the Ramones and think they are very unique with that drive mixed with those almost crooning vocals, I don't know that I would say they started punk music. I would say it was more of a cumulative effect of The Stooges, MC5, Ramones, etc. They were definitely the best though, IMO and one of the greats in all of Rock and Roll.
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Re: Who was more influential Kiss or The Ramones

Post by Grand Classic »

Tbond wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 2:05 pm
Grand Classic wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 1:19 pm
DaveinSpain wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 1:11 pm Pretty straight forward question. Clearly Kiss were the biggest band in the world for a few years. I'm not debating who was bigger. Obviously Kiss sold millions more albums. But The Ramones are credited with starting a whole new genre of music. Yes The Ramones played 3 chords and wrote minimal lyrics. I also feel Kiss wrote basic 1970's arena rock songs. Great songs that I love, but they didn't reinvent the wheel either musically. I'm not arguing who was better everyone has their own taste. I'm strictly speaking about influencing new generations of bands. I think The Ramones were more influential.
Without them who knows how punk music would come to be. Kiss definitely was the bigger band and maybe the biggest of the mid to late 70's, but The Ramones created a style of music that has gone on to create some of the biggest bands of today. People everywhere still wear their shirts. I don't see too many Kiss shirts out there today. I think The Ramones never got the credit they deserved in life as they do in death or post breakup. They are my 2 favorite bands and I love them pretty equally. I will say regardless of the outcome of the poll The Ramones definitely made the better movie of the 70's.
Were KISS really the biggest band in the world though? Or was it hype and Bogart/Aucoin marketing? They sure as shit weren't selling more records than a slew of bands.

I am not saying that KISS weren't a phenomenon, but the numbers don't actually add up in terms of actually being the biggest band in the world.
And The Ramones debut album took 38 years to go GOLD. They have a grand total of 2 gold albums out of 37 albums (studio, live, compilations) - -

People wear their T shirts? You mean mass marketing to hipsters calculates influence?

I get it--platinum albums, gold singles, and filling arenas isn't the end all and the be all of influence, but, in order to influence you have to make SOME sort of penetration into the general sales driven marketplace.

I don't see the Ramones doing that with any meaning. I mean, were these thousands of people the Ramones were allegedly influencing all passing around the same album instead of buying it themselves?

East coast journalist types decided the Ramones started some sort of musical revolution and fed it to the press, until people started accepting it as fact.

Nothing more.
I was talking about the biggest band in the world notion, which clearly wasn't the case compared to other massive bands of the time. KISS barely sold albums compared to multi-platinum bands in the 70's and 80's for that matter.
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Re: Who was more influential Kiss or The Ramones

Post by rico »

Ramones.

Lots and lots of people are influenced by KISS but KISS didn't found or define a movement. The Ramones ARE punk to many and their influence on the genre cannot be overstated. As a result, many bands they have influenced have gone on to be game changers. KIss had a great image and were a really cool band, same for the Ramones, but the Ramones created a sound that has been copied many, many times. Kiss copied others sounds.
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Re: Who was more influential Kiss or The Ramones

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FIX wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 2:18 pm Both huge bands with a huge imprint. I have to believe anyone who would say the Ramones just wanna get another jab in at KISS, or are maybe too cool for school. The influence speaks for itself. Maybe a side by side comparison is in order.

And even though I Love the Ramones and think they are very unique with that drive mixed with those almost crooning vocals, I don't know that I would say they started punk music. I would say it was more of a cumulative effect of The Stooges, MC5, Ramones, etc. They were definitely the best though, IMO and one of the greats in all of Rock and Roll.
I think a side by side comparison is difficult. Clearly Kiss was the more popular band, but comparing them musically I think is impossible. They played 2 totally different styles of rock and roll. I think that argument would just turn into who you like more. I think Ace was a better guitar player then Johnny Ramone, but I think Joey is a much better singer then Paul or Gene. I think the bass player argument is a wash. Gene is great at what he does and Dee Dee was great at what he did, but again 2 totally different styles of music. As far as Peter or Tommy & Marky is a wash as well again 2 different styles of playing. Anyway I'm grateful to have discovered both and having the chance to see both live. They have both changed my life for sure.
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Re: Who was more influential Kiss or The Ramones

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rico wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 2:26 pm Ramones.

Lots and lots of people are influenced by KISS but KISS didn't found or define a movement. The Ramones ARE punk to many and their influence on the genre cannot be overstated. As a result, many bands they have influenced have gone on to be game changers. KIss had a great image and were a really cool band, same for the Ramones, but the Ramones created a sound that has been copied many, many times. Kiss copied others sounds.
This is a huge reason I chose The Ramones. I like your comment and agree 100%.
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Re: Who was more influential Kiss or The Ramones

Post by rico »

DaveinSpain wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 2:36 pm
rico wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 2:26 pm Ramones.

Lots and lots of people are influenced by KISS but KISS didn't found or define a movement. The Ramones ARE punk to many and their influence on the genre cannot be overstated. As a result, many bands they have influenced have gone on to be game changers. KIss had a great image and were a really cool band, same for the Ramones, but the Ramones created a sound that has been copied many, many times. Kiss copied others sounds.
This is a huge reason I chose The Ramones. I like your comment and agree 100%.
Cheers for saying. I love/loved both bands dearly. This is not a jab at KISS an anyway at all. I just think the resonance is more important than the commercial aspect.
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Re: Who was more influential Kiss or The Ramones

Post by JohnBergless »

At first I was like…. WTH kind of poll is this? Of course KISS. Then reading more …. Yes there’s some strong arguments made. But I still say KISS. Joey Ramone has a short tongue; and on Halloween’s in the late 1970’s - you didn’t see kids trick or treating as the Ramones. Montgomery Wards and Sears didn’t sell Ramones pajamas and belt buckles.
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Re: Who was more influential Kiss or The Ramones

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Grand Classic wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 1:19 pm
DaveinSpain wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 1:11 pm Pretty straight forward question. Clearly Kiss were the biggest band in the world for a few years. I'm not debating who was bigger. Obviously Kiss sold millions more albums. But The Ramones are credited with starting a whole new genre of music. Yes The Ramones played 3 chords and wrote minimal lyrics. I also feel Kiss wrote basic 1970's arena rock songs. Great songs that I love, but they didn't reinvent the wheel either musically. I'm not arguing who was better everyone has their own taste. I'm strictly speaking about influencing new generations of bands. I think The Ramones were more influential.
Without them who knows how punk music would come to be. Kiss definitely was the bigger band and maybe the biggest of the mid to late 70's, but The Ramones created a style of music that has gone on to create some of the biggest bands of today. People everywhere still wear their shirts. I don't see too many Kiss shirts out there today. I think The Ramones never got the credit they deserved in life as they do in death or post breakup. They are my 2 favorite bands and I love them pretty equally. I will say regardless of the outcome of the poll The Ramones definitely made the better movie of the 70's.
Were KISS really the biggest band in the world though? Or was it hype and Bogart/Aucoin marketing? They sure as shit weren't selling more records than a slew of bands.

I am not saying that KISS weren't a phenomenon, but the numbers don't actually add up in terms of actually being the biggest band in the world.
Agreed
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Re: Who was more influential Kiss or The Ramones

Post by DaveinSpain »

rico wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 2:39 pm
DaveinSpain wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 2:36 pm
rico wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 2:26 pm Ramones.

Lots and lots of people are influenced by KISS but KISS didn't found or define a movement. The Ramones ARE punk to many and their influence on the genre cannot be overstated. As a result, many bands they have influenced have gone on to be game changers. KIss had a great image and were a really cool band, same for the Ramones, but the Ramones created a sound that has been copied many, many times. Kiss copied others sounds.
This is a huge reason I chose The Ramones. I like your comment and agree 100%.
Cheers for saying. I love/loved both bands dearly. This is not a jab at KISS an anyway at all. I just think the resonance is more important than the commercial aspect.
Agreed. I didn't create the poll to crap on Kiss which is a popular thing around here. I love Kiss. I just think The Ramones were more influential is all.
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Re: Who was more influential Kiss or The Ramones

Post by DaveinSpain »

JohnBergless wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 2:43 pm At first I was like…. WTH kind of poll is this? Of course KISS. Then reading more …. Yes there’s some strong arguments made. But I still say KISS. Joey Ramone has a short tongue; and on Halloween’s in the late 1970’s - you didn’t see kids trick or treating as the Ramones. Montgomery Wards and Sears didn’t sell Ramones pajamas and belt buckles.
I can't disagree with what you said. But that's merchandising. Kiss was definitely the more popular band by a long mile, I just think The Ramones have influenced more bands over the years and helped create the punk genre that has been going for 40 plus years. Kiss were an incredible hard rock band one of the best in my opinion but hard rock was there before them. And I think The Ramones changed the underground music scene. I don't feel Kiss influenced others as much as The Ramones did or created a style that was unheard of at the time. Either way 2 great bands I love. But hey it's a friendly little debate and I don't think there is a wrong answer. Both bands have left their mark and neither will ever be forgotten.
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Re: Who was more influential Kiss or The Ramones

Post by DaveinSpain »

Being a Kiss forum I'm actually pretty impressed with how close it is as of right now. I live in Spain so it's the middle of the night I guess I'll see in the morning if it stays close.
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Re: Who was more influential Kiss or The Ramones

Post by Legsofsteel »

Glasgow Kiss wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 1:56 pm Both were successful in terms of selling T-shirts to millions of people who couldn't name more than three of their songs, but in this case it has to be Kiss, who were ubiquitous in North America for two or three years and managed to influence both the '80s hair metal and subsequent 90s grunge scenes. In the case of the Ramones, I'm not even sure they influenced the UK punk scene more than marginally.
This.
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Re: Who was more influential Kiss or The Ramones

Post by KISSTRONAUT »

KISS. Otherwise we would have followed Julien over to RamonesFAQ.

I meant to add I do enjoy The Ramones though. Didn’t want you all to think I was a total sheep and didn’t have a little cool inside my nerdy core.
Last edited by KISSTRONAUT on Sat Sep 18, 2021 3:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Who was more influential Kiss or The Ramones

Post by FIX »

DaveinSpain wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 2:30 pm
FIX wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 2:18 pm Both huge bands with a huge imprint. I have to believe anyone who would say the Ramones just wanna get another jab in at KISS, or are maybe too cool for school. The influence speaks for itself. Maybe a side by side comparison is in order.

And even though I Love the Ramones and think they are very unique with that drive mixed with those almost crooning vocals, I don't know that I would say they started punk music. I would say it was more of a cumulative effect of The Stooges, MC5, Ramones, etc. They were definitely the best though, IMO and one of the greats in all of Rock and Roll.
I think a side by side comparison is difficult. Clearly Kiss was the more popular band, but comparing them musically I think is impossible. They played 2 totally different styles of rock and roll. I think that argument would just turn into who you like more. I think Ace was a better guitar player then Johnny Ramone, but I think Joey is a much better singer then Paul or Gene. I think the bass player argument is a wash. Gene is great at what he does and Dee Dee was great at what he did, but again 2 totally different styles of music. As far as Peter or Tommy & Marky is a wash as well again 2 different styles of playing. Anyway I'm grateful to have discovered both and having the chance to see both live. They have both changed my life for sure.
That's fair. I meant more of a side by side comparison of influence, but even that is extremely subjective and easier said than done. We could both name a host of artist who wouldn't have gotten started without KISS and the Ramones. Although I believe KISS to have the broader worldwide influence, each argument is valid.
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Re: Who was more influential Kiss or The Ramones

Post by Hellbastard »

Flabbergasted. That anyone. Could think. Kiss had more of an impact. Than the Ramones.
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Re: Who was more influential Kiss or The Ramones

Post by Agerst1574 »

This is a fascinating question. A little background about me. I live in Rego Park and in Boca Raton. I attended Forest Hills High School where the Ramones attended (they were about 7-9years older than me, and everyday I pass Joey's mother old art gallery where they used to rehearse in the basement. I saw the Ramones about 13 times with the first show being with the Runaways and Suicide at the Palladium in 1978.

While I was a Ramones fan, I was also a diehard Kiss fan and the first show I saw them at was at Madison Square Garden in February, 1977. Loved the band through the early part of 1981 and kind of left the fandom until the reunion tour and have seen them on almost every tour since. My next show is in West Palm Beach in October.

Folks forget that Joey Ramone's first band was Sniper who played the Coventry during the same era as Kiss. I don't know how much Joey and Kiss interacted with each other. Kiss often talks about Status Quo as an influence and I believe that Joey was a big fan of Status Quo. Both Kiss and Joey were also aware of the NY Dolls.

Unfortunately I think Kiss gets short shrift on the bands they have influenced given the ridicule the band often gets for it priority over making a buck, not that anything is wrong with that. But I can make an argument that the band is hugely influential and all you have to do is talk to musicians who would make that argument.

The Ramones though have a different influence. They, like the Stooges, encouraged people to pick up instruments who did not know how to play and start bands. They did not have the ability that Kiss had on their instruments but their sound was very unique. I know drummers who have attempted to play Ramones songs and can't get the timing correct because so much of it is unique. Clem Burke performed one night with the band and gave up because he just could not get the tempo down and he is an incredible drummer.

Johnny's guitar playing is much of the same. All downstrokes and really fast.

What they both have in common is that the both bands were ridiculed by many in the 70's. I remember vividly friends asking why I was fans of both bands.

So my argument is that they were both hugely influential but I would vote in favor of the Ramones because of the uniqueness of the sound.
Last edited by Agerst1574 on Sat Sep 18, 2021 3:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Who was more influential Kiss or The Ramones

Post by Black Ace »

Ramones
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Re: Who was more influential Kiss or The Ramones

Post by Black Ace »

FIX wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 2:18 pm And even though I Love the Ramones and think they are very unique with that drive mixed with those almost crooning vocals, I don't know that I would say they started punk music. I would say it was more of a cumulative effect of The Stooges, MC5, Ramones, etc. They were definitely the best though, IMO and one of the greats in all of Rock and Roll.
I wouldn’t say they started Punk. I’d say they were the first band to really define a solidify the genre.
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Re: Who was more influential Kiss or The Ramones

Post by Anomaly »

Agerst1574 wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 3:31 pm I saw the Ramones about 13 times beginning at the beginning of 1978.
You have my envy.
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Re: Who was more influential Kiss or The Ramones

Post by So Cruel »

The Ramones. A lot of kids started garage bands because of them. When a TV talent scout went to see U2 in the late 70’s, they didn’t have any songs of their own so they played him a Ramones song and told him it was theirs. They got the gig.
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Re: Who was more influential Kiss or The Ramones

Post by Mike5477 »

Seriously?? KISS has influenced countless bands/musicians. I would put them in the same class as Led Zeppelin or The Beatles as far as influencing. Millions of people saw KISS and decided to play music. Far more than the Ramones. I'm not knocking the Ramones. I just think that the question is pretty silly.
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Re: Who was more influential Kiss or The Ramones

Post by Anomaly »

Mike5477 wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 4:01 pm I would put them in the same class as Led Zeppelin or The Beatles as far as influencing.
Fucking yikes.
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Re: Who was more influential Kiss or The Ramones

Post by StillAlive »

KISS.

Growing up, both bands were considered non-serious at various points in my life.
Fodder for jokes.
They're mostly fondly remembered now (through a nostalgic lens).
It's cool to wear both t-shirts.
Not so much back in my day.

R.I.P. Dee Dee Ramone (born Douglas Glenn Colvin; RAMONES); September 18th, 1951 - June 5th, 2002
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Re: Who was more influential Kiss or The Ramones

Post by Grand Classic »

Mike5477 wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 4:01 pm Seriously?? KISS has influenced countless bands/musicians. I would put them in the same class as Led Zeppelin or The Beatles as far as influencing. Millions of people saw KISS and decided to play music. Far more than the Ramones. I'm not knocking the Ramones. I just think that the question is pretty silly.
The notable people in the music industry who KISS influenced or got them to pick up the guitar in the first place more often than not - sound nothing like KISS in their own music compared to other bands that were highly influential to them as well.

In other words, KISS may have got them started as children/teens, but KISS were more of a gateway band to OTHER bands that truly influenced them to play the music they play now where those influences are more noticeable than any influence from KISS.
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Re: Who was more influential Kiss or The Ramones

Post by Red_Walrus »

Kiss
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Re: Who was more influential Kiss or The Ramones

Post by steveh67 »

Mike5477 wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 4:01 pm Seriously?? KISS has influenced countless bands/musicians. I would put them in the same class as Led Zeppelin or The Beatles as far as influencing. Millions of people saw KISS and decided to play music. Far more than the Ramones. I'm not knocking the Ramones. I just think that the question is pretty silly.
Utter tripe. KISS were nowhere near the same level of influence as Zep or Beatles.

Your comment shows why this argument is 'pretty silly' on a KISS forum.

KISS was a cartoon band, sorry if that grates on people. Not being a music snob here either.

I love KISS to death, but I also love music in general and for a long time.
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Re: Who was more influential Kiss or The Ramones

Post by highvoltage1969 »

Grand Classic wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 1:19 pm
DaveinSpain wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 1:11 pm Pretty straight forward question. Clearly Kiss were the biggest band in the world for a few years. I'm not debating who was bigger. Obviously Kiss sold millions more albums. But The Ramones are credited with starting a whole new genre of music. Yes The Ramones played 3 chords and wrote minimal lyrics. I also feel Kiss wrote basic 1970's arena rock songs. Great songs that I love, but they didn't reinvent the wheel either musically. I'm not arguing who was better everyone has their own taste. I'm strictly speaking about influencing new generations of bands. I think The Ramones were more influential.
Without them who knows how punk music would come to be. Kiss definitely was the bigger band and maybe the biggest of the mid to late 70's, but The Ramones created a style of music that has gone on to create some of the biggest bands of today. People everywhere still wear their shirts. I don't see too many Kiss shirts out there today. I think The Ramones never got the credit they deserved in life as they do in death or post breakup. They are my 2 favorite bands and I love them pretty equally. I will say regardless of the outcome of the poll The Ramones definitely made the better movie of the 70's.
Were KISS really the biggest band in the world though? Or was it hype and Bogart/Aucoin marketing? They sure as shit weren't selling more records than a slew of bands.

I am not saying that KISS weren't a phenomenon, but the numbers don't actually add up in terms of actually being the biggest band in the world.
Of course not, RARO and Love Gun didn't even chart in the UK, New Zealand, Norway or the Netherlands.
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Re: Who was more influential Kiss or The Ramones

Post by highvoltage1969 »

Mike5477 wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 4:01 pm Seriously?? KISS has influenced countless bands/musicians. I would put them in the same class as Led Zeppelin or The Beatles as far as influencing. Millions of people saw KISS and decided to play music. Far more than the Ramones. I'm not knocking the Ramones. I just think that the question is pretty silly.
I think you're over estimating their influence.
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Re: Who was more influential Kiss or The Ramones

Post by acefan1975 »

Ramones and its not really that close. I bet the vote on this board goes 55-45 or 60-40 leaning kiss. On a Ramones board it would be 100-0 for the Ramones and on a regular music forum it would be 90-10
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Re: Who was more influential Kiss or The Ramones

Post by gabbagabba »

Both bands, in a different way, influenced so many musicians and artists for so many years.
And a lot of musicians were influenced by both bands.