Eric Carr relationship with Paul Stanley

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Eric Carr relationship with Paul Stanley

Post by southwest91 »

Leaving aside the whole tragic thing of Eric's sudden illness and status on kiss during these days, what eventually lead Paul Stanley to dislike that much Eric? Eric given everyone's word was very friendly humble and never had issues with anyone, even vinie who was a difficult person had a great friendship with him. Peter liked him, ace same too, gene was like his older brother, Bruce was his buddy even wrote material outside of kiss, but Stanley is the only one who seems to not like him, but why?
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Re: Eric Carr relationship with Paul Stanley

Post by battra »

Eric was Paul's employee.

There's nothing saying Paul has to like him.

What makes you think he ever did?
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Re: Eric Carr relationship with Paul Stanley

Post by adamsebas »

I think it was because Eric was insecure and very goofy. You could always see Paul cringe in interviews when Eric was talking. Also, I think Paul always only thought of Eric as an adequate drummer and not a great great drummer.
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Re: Eric Carr relationship with Paul Stanley

Post by Kissoff »

adamsebas wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 3:46 pm I think it was because Eric was insecure and very goofy. You could always see Paul cringe in interviews when Eric was talking. Also, I think Paul always only thought of Eric as an adequate drummer and not a great great drummer.
And....
Didn't Eric at some point have a drinking problem. I thought I read or heard that somewhere.
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Re: Eric Carr relationship with Paul Stanley

Post by Doose »

Eric C. definitely didn't have the same esteem and respect that Eric S. has in Paul's eyes.
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Re: Eric Carr relationship with Paul Stanley

Post by SomethingSeemLahr »

Paul was envious of The Spoiler II®
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Re: Eric Carr relationship with Paul Stanley

Post by Grand Classic »

I think it sort of became a situation of be careful what you wish for - you just might get it.

Eric rightfully felt held back in KISS and didn't have the personality to just be a yes man. He wanted to be a real contributing member to the band. Eric should have had a song per album like they immediately gave to Tommy.

I am sure dealing with Paul and Gene can be incredibly frustrating and not as joyous as you had hoped becoming a member of KISS. Having your salary reduced probably didn't help either.

So Eric in his own way expressed his unhappiness and frustration and Paul took issue with that. I totally understand Eric's position. He was absolutely in the right, but probably needed to express that in a better way.
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Re: Eric Carr relationship with Paul Stanley

Post by 70skid »

Paul likes yes men. Eric ceased to be one and so…..
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Re: Eric Carr relationship with Paul Stanley

Post by JupiterJones »

If Paul sees weakness he pounces.
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Re: Eric Carr relationship with Paul Stanley

Post by Ozone1978 »

I think Paul didn't like how much the fans loved Eric Carr in the band. Paul's very fragile ego could not handle it.
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Re: Eric Carr relationship with Paul Stanley

Post by B5Erik »

I talked to Eric in January, 1990, and he was clearly not happy with the KISS organization, and the impression I got is that it was more Paul than Gene that he was frustrated with. Eric was an incredibly nice guy, blew off his girlfriend to talk to me for about 10 minutes. No ego at all - just another fan who got a big time gig. You could tell that the position of being KISS' drummer meant a lot to him, too.
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Re: Eric Carr relationship with Paul Stanley

Post by simmons & stanley »

Paul likes only himself really..maybe.I mean,who does he REALLY get along with ?
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Re: Eric Carr relationship with Paul Stanley

Post by Bruce »

I don't know what caused the rift. I don't think there was a single, smoking gun. But look at this clip from around the very time Stanley and Carr were supposedly at odds. Maybe it was an olive branch, of sorts? Whatever teamed them up suggests, to me, some mixed emotions, there. Even with Paul's bromance with Singer going on, it never meant that he hated Carr, ever. He liked him enough to, at least, throw him a bone -- as evidenced, here ...

Eric Carr and Paul Stanley as MTV Afternoon Hosts circa 1989

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Re: Eric Carr relationship with Paul Stanley

Post by adamsebas »

Eric is very goofy
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Re: Eric Carr relationship with Paul Stanley

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adamsebas wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 3:46 pm I think it was because Eric was insecure and very goofy. You could always see Paul cringe in interviews when Eric was talking. Also, I think Paul always only thought of Eric as an adequate drummer and not a great great drummer.
I think that might be it. Eric C came across a lot of the time as an overenthusiastic, goofy puppy dog which jarred with Paul's wish to portray himself as an intellectual aesthete. Going by his first book, Paul always looked down on him...the episode with the Porsche is a classic example.

When you're trying to reinvent yourself as a sophisticate, the last thing you want is a guy in the band who totally reminds you of yourself a decade earlier.
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Re: Eric Carr relationship with Paul Stanley

Post by Chaim Wigz »

Bruce wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 8:49 pm I don't know what caused the rift. I don't think there was a single, smoking gun. But look at this clip from around the very time Stanley and Carr were supposedly at odds. Maybe it was an olive branch, of sorts? Whatever teamed them up suggests, to me, some mixed emotions, there. Even with Paul's bromance with Singer going on, it never meant that he hated Carr, ever. He liked him enough to, at least, throw him a bone -- as evidenced, here ...

Eric Carr and Paul Stanley as MTV Afternoon Hosts circa 1989

Nice video, thank you for sharing. I certainly don’t see anything overly goofy about Eric in this, he just comes across as a thoroughly fun, likeable and sincere guy. Nothing fake about him at all.
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Re: Eric Carr relationship with Paul Stanley

Post by Potato Salad »

Paul hated Eric Carr for no reason. It's sad.
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Re: Eric Carr relationship with Paul Stanley

Post by Under The Rose »

Potato Salad wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 1:24 am Paul hated Eric Carr for no reason. It's sad.
Pretty ridiculous to say he hated him. What’s the evidence?
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Re: Eric Carr relationship with Paul Stanley

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Under The Rose wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 3:31 am
Potato Salad wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 1:24 am Paul hated Eric Carr for no reason. It's sad.
Pretty ridiculous to say he hated him. What’s the evidence?
Paul's book, for one. He takes needless shots at Eric many times in the book.
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Re: Eric Carr relationship with Paul Stanley

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Potato Salad wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 4:24 am
Under The Rose wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 3:31 am
Potato Salad wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 1:24 am Paul hated Eric Carr for no reason. It's sad.
Pretty ridiculous to say he hated him. What’s the evidence?
Paul's book, for one. He takes needless shots at Eric many times in the book.
Hardly worthy of the term “hate”.
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Re: Eric Carr relationship with Paul Stanley

Post by Chaim Wigz »

Potato Salad wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 4:24 am
Under The Rose wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 3:31 am
Potato Salad wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 1:24 am Paul hated Eric Carr for no reason. It's sad.
Pretty ridiculous to say he hated him. What’s the evidence?
Paul's book, for one. He takes needless shots at Eric many times in the book.
Imagine having the conscience (or lack of one) to write and publish needless jabs at a deceased former band mate or mates (hello also, Mark St John). Gee, what a swell guy ol’ stink face is.
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Re: Eric Carr relationship with Paul Stanley

Post by Coventry1973 »

With Carrie Stevens being cut out of the documentary you know there's things she says that puts Paul in a very negative light as to the situation with Eric. Now someone said that all because Eric is in KISS doesn't mean that Paul has to like him. REALLY?? I don't get that at all but maybe that's just me. It's not a football or baseball team where it's put together by owners and you might dislike someone for whatever reason but they're on your team. This is their band... 4 guys and also the one who Paul, Gene and Ace hand picked to be on the team. Also 12 years in the band and you couldn't give him some slack, even if he was aloof? Eric was sincere, and it was probably the attitude of Paul that started making Eric start to be extremely insecure.
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Re: Eric Carr relationship with Paul Stanley

Post by Kiss-Army-Sergeant »

I've said it before and will say it again. These are grown men, for pete's sake. Why they continue to take juvenile shots at one another, instead of letting bygones be bygones is just getting tiresome. And Paul seems to be the biggest offender of the bunch--when was the last time he admitted to having a fault or taking blame for something that went wrong?
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Re: Eric Carr relationship with Paul Stanley

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Bruce wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 8:49 pm I don't know what caused the rift. I don't think there was a single, smoking gun. But look at this clip from around the very time Stanley and Carr were supposedly at odds. Maybe it was an olive branch, of sorts? Whatever teamed them up suggests, to me, some mixed emotions, there. Even with Paul's bromance with Singer going on, it never meant that he hated Carr, ever. He liked him enough to, at least, throw him a bone -- as evidenced, here ...

Eric Carr and Paul Stanley as MTV Afternoon Hosts circa 1989

Thanks for posting that, never seen it before. Made me smile from start to finish.

To me it's two guys doing a one-man job but the two of them seem to be having a good enough time together.
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Re: Eric Carr relationship with Paul Stanley

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Kiss-Army-Sergeant wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 12:59 pmThese are grown men, for pete's sake.
Not based on Twitter feeds it’s not :D
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Re: Eric Carr relationship with Paul Stanley

Post by ZachAttack »

This was answered by Gary Corbett.

For the Monsters of Rock 88 shows, the set had to be trimmed down so they removed the drum solo. After Monsters Of Rock they continued on the regular tour but still never brought the drum solo back, supposedly because of Paul. He didn't think they needed it and liked how the set was without it. This really pissed Eric off and is what started the rift. The story seems to check out, look at the setlists on that tour - drum solos up until MOR shows, then no solos for the remainder of the tour.

Also he was upset that Paul didn't use him for his solo tour and we've all heard the story where he saw Singer and said "that's who is gonna end up replacing me"
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Re: Eric Carr relationship with Paul Stanley

Post by TheKISSProject7312 »

Bruce wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 8:49 pm
Man, Paulie did a great job there. Very smooth.
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Re: Eric Carr relationship with Paul Stanley

Post by B5Erik »

ZachAttack wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 2:26 pm This was answered by Gary Corbett.

For the Monsters of Rock 88 shows, the set had to be trimmed down so they removed the drum solo. After Monsters Of Rock they continued on the regular tour but still never brought the drum solo back, supposedly because of Paul. He didn't think they needed it and liked how the set was without it. This really pissed Eric off and is what started the rift. The story seems to check out, look at the setlists on that tour - drum solos up until MOR shows, then no solos for the remainder of the tour.

Also he was upset that Paul didn't use him for his solo tour and we've all heard the story where he saw Singer and said "that's who is gonna end up replacing me"
Eric getting a song on HITS was also an issue. Paul rejected Eyes of Love (stupidly) and tentatively approved Little Caesar - then changed his mind and wanted to relegate the song as a single B-Side. Gene supported Eric getting the song on the album and Paul relented, but that fight to get the song on the album just made their rift worse. Then Paul cutting Eric's solo from the first half of the HITS tour made things worse from there. (Eric expected to get his solo spot back, and he eventually did.)

Yeah, Paul really didn't treat Eric well.
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Re: Eric Carr relationship with Paul Stanley

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Potato Salad wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 4:24 am
Under The Rose wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 3:31 am
Potato Salad wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 1:24 am Paul hated Eric Carr for no reason. It's sad.
Pretty ridiculous to say he hated him. What’s the evidence?
Paul's book, for one. He takes needless shots at Eric many times in the book.
Paul does that to everybody. Even Gene. Him and Gene have been at odds for YEARS. He's only calling him a "brother" now for PR purposes.
Eric didn't kiss ass and Paul didn't like it. Paul's a little diva.
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Re: Eric Carr relationship with Paul Stanley

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B5Erik wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 3:04 pm
ZachAttack wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 2:26 pm This was answered by Gary Corbett.

For the Monsters of Rock 88 shows, the set had to be trimmed down so they removed the drum solo. After Monsters Of Rock they continued on the regular tour but still never brought the drum solo back, supposedly because of Paul. He didn't think they needed it and liked how the set was without it. This really pissed Eric off and is what started the rift. The story seems to check out, look at the setlists on that tour - drum solos up until MOR shows, then no solos for the remainder of the tour.

Also he was upset that Paul didn't use him for his solo tour and we've all heard the story where he saw Singer and said "that's who is gonna end up replacing me"
Eric getting a song on HITS was also an issue. Paul rejected Eyes of Love (stupidly) and tentatively approved Little Caesar - then changed his mind and wanted to relegate the song as a single B-Side. Gene supported Eric getting the song on the album and Paul relented, but that fight to get the song on the album just made their rift worse. Then Paul cutting Eric's solo from the first half of the HITS tour made things worse from there. (Eric expected to get his solo spot back, and he eventually did.)

Yeah, Paul really didn't treat Eric well.
I thought the solos being cut on the HITS tour was Larry Mazers doing?
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Re: Eric Carr relationship with Paul Stanley

Post by ozweepay »

According to Paul's book, Eric completely stopped talking to him in the middle of a tour, can't remember which one. Paul had to have a sit down with Eric and say "This has to stop"
We can only speculate the reasons for the silent treatment, but G&P's track record of disregarding side members' opinions and marginalizing their roles in the band might have played a factor.
    I'm not dishing out on G&P. It's their band, it's their way. You have to accept your role, and Eric may have not been all that happy with his stature in the band hierarchy.
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    Re: Eric Carr relationship with Paul Stanley

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    ozweepay wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 5:10 pm According to Paul's book, Eric completely stopped talking to him in the middle of a tour, can't remember which one. Paul had to have a sit down with Eric and say "This has to stop"
    We can only speculate the reasons for the silent treatment, but G&P's track record of disregarding side members' opinions and marginalizing their roles in the band might have played a factor.
      I'm not dishing out on G&P. It's their band, it's their way. You have to accept your role, and Eric may have not been all that happy with his stature in the band hierarchy.
      Gene & Paul have a superlative record of just being swell, decent human beings
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      Re: Eric Carr relationship with Paul Stanley

      Post by Ara78 »

      Heaven's on Fire video: "Baby don't stop, take it to the top!"

      Eric joining Paul for that bit in the video was cool, and looked spontaneous.
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      Re: Eric Carr relationship with Paul Stanley

      Post by ankh »

      Stanley did put up with lot of problems witb peter and ace because of the money,yet he couldn' take criticism or different opinions by somebody who,apparently,wanted to belong to a band,instead of being just an employee.,and i' mot talking money wise.Issues were mainly about musical contributions.Yet Paul it seemed to ike to poke shots at Eric,and not even him being no longer alive,stopped him.Same about other dead people who apparently did wrong from his persona perspective.Some class.
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      Re: Eric Carr relationship with Paul Stanley

      Post by ZachAttack »

      ozweepay wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 5:10 pm According to Paul's book, Eric completely stopped talking to him in the middle of a tour, can't remember which one. Paul had to have a sit down with Eric and say "This has to stop"
      We can only speculate the reasons for the silent treatment, but G&P's track record of disregarding side members' opinions and marginalizing their roles in the band might have played a factor.
        I'm not dishing out on G&P. It's their band, it's their way. You have to accept your role, and Eric may have not been all that happy with his stature in the band hierarchy.
        It was the end of the Crazy Nights tour and the beginning of the HITS tour and it was because his drum solo was cut from the set
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        Re: Eric Carr relationship with Paul Stanley

        Post by spacecat2500 »

        simmons & stanley wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 8:27 pm Paul likes only himself really..maybe.I mean,who does he REALLY get along with ?
        Solomon Burke....Otis Redding....
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        Re: Eric Carr relationship with Paul Stanley

        Post by B5Erik »

        ZachAttack wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 6:00 am
        ozweepay wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 5:10 pm According to Paul's book, Eric completely stopped talking to him in the middle of a tour, can't remember which one. Paul had to have a sit down with Eric and say "This has to stop"
        We can only speculate the reasons for the silent treatment, but G&P's track record of disregarding side members' opinions and marginalizing their roles in the band might have played a factor.
          I'm not dishing out on G&P. It's their band, it's their way. You have to accept your role, and Eric may have not been all that happy with his stature in the band hierarchy.
          It was the end of the Crazy Nights tour and the beginning of the HITS tour and it was because his drum solo was cut from the set
          And because Paul wanted to keep Little Caesar off of HITS. (Gene intervened and made sure it was on the album.)

          Paul also rejected Eyes Of Love, which was a far superior song to Little Caesar. So cutting Eric's solo spot, and trying to keep Eric's songs off the album just didn't sit well with Eric.

          The sad thing is Eric wrote really good riffs, and sometimes top notch vocal melodies. Paul had a first rate musical contributor in the band, but rarely used him. Paul went outside the band far more than he allowed Eric to contribute. HITS turned out pretty poorly (a very inconsistent album), and Eyes of Love would have made it stronger.

          Eric had good reasons to be upset with Paul. He didn't handle the situation well, but he had cause to be upset.
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          Re: Eric Carr relationship with Paul Stanley

          Post by Sinisha »

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          Re: Eric Carr relationship with Paul Stanley

          Post by AceyAintInCharge »

          battra wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 3:44 pm Eric was Paul's employee.

          There's nothing saying Paul has to like him.

          What makes you think he ever did?
          You offer zero insight. Pointlessly negative post.
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          Re: Eric Carr relationship with Paul Stanley

          Post by AceyAintInCharge »

          TheKISSProject7312 wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 2:53 pm
          Bruce wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 8:49 pm
          Man, Paulie did a great job there. Very smooth.
          Eric always seemed awkward to me when doing stuff like this. Almost like he was never completely comfortable in either his own skin or perhaps the role of KISS's Drummer.
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          Re: Eric Carr relationship with Paul Stanley

          Post by AceyAintInCharge »

          spacecat2500 wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 6:13 am
          simmons & stanley wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 8:27 pm Paul likes only himself really..maybe.I mean,who does he REALLY get along with ?
          Solomon Burke....Otis Redding....
          Jean Beauvior.
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          Re: Eric Carr relationship with Paul Stanley

          Post by battra »

          AceyAintInCharge wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 9:30 am
          battra wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 3:44 pm Eric was Paul's employee.

          There's nothing saying Paul has to like him.

          What makes you think he ever did?
          You offer zero insight. Pointlessly negative post.
          There's literally nothing negative in the post.
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          Re: Eric Carr relationship with Paul Stanley

          Post by DonnaDixon »

          adamsebas wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 3:46 pm I think Paul always only thought of Eric as an adequate drummer and not a great great drummer.
          What gives you that impression?

          And if you're right, I wonder why they hired him?
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          Re: Eric Carr relationship with Paul Stanley

          Post by DonnaDixon »

          Potato Salad wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 4:24 am
          Under The Rose wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 3:31 am
          Potato Salad wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 1:24 am Paul hated Eric Carr for no reason. It's sad.
          Pretty ridiculous to say he hated him. What’s the evidence?
          Paul's book, for one. He takes needless shots at Eric many times in the book.
          I wonder why he decided to do that.
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          Re: Eric Carr relationship with Paul Stanley

          Post by DonnaDixon »

          Kiss-Army-Sergeant wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 12:59 pm I've said it before and will say it again. These are grown men, for pete's sake. Why they continue to take juvenile shots at one another, instead of letting bygones be bygones is just getting tiresome.
          They must think that all of the negativity somehow leads to $$$$.

          Either that or they're all just loathesome a-holes.
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          Re: Eric Carr relationship with Paul Stanley

          Post by ChiptTooth67 »

          :roll:
          simmons & stanley wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 8:27 pm Paul likes only himself really..maybe.I mean,who does he REALLY get along with ?
          He loves Paul Stanley, but I don’t think he’s a fan of Stanley Eisen.
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          Re: Eric Carr relationship with Paul Stanley

          Post by ozweepay »

          DonnaDixon wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 5:11 pm
          adamsebas wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 3:46 pm I think Paul always only thought of Eric as an adequate drummer and not a great great drummer.
          What gives you that impression?

          And if you're right, I wonder why they hired him?
          From Paul's book:
          One guy who auditioned was a little stove repairman from Brooklyn named Paul Caravello. He was tiny, with a huge head of hair and no airs or attitude. The first thing he did was ask for our autographs. At first, I wasn’t blown away by his playing, but everybody else in the room, including Vini Poncia and Bill Aucoin, thought he was great. We brought the guy back for a second time, and he turned out to have a good voice, with the same raspy quality Peter had. He was also a quick learner.
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          Phyllis Simmons
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          Re: Eric Carr relationship with Paul Stanley

          Post by Phyllis Simmons »

          Chaim Wigz wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 1:20 am
          Bruce wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 8:49 pm I don't know what caused the rift. I don't think there was a single, smoking gun. But look at this clip from around the very time Stanley and Carr were supposedly at odds. Maybe it was an olive branch, of sorts? Whatever teamed them up suggests, to me, some mixed emotions, there. Even with Paul's bromance with Singer going on, it never meant that he hated Carr, ever. He liked him enough to, at least, throw him a bone -- as evidenced, here ...

          Eric Carr and Paul Stanley as MTV Afternoon Hosts circa 1989

          Nice video, thank you for sharing. I certainly don’t see anything overly goofy about Eric in this, he just comes across as a thoroughly fun, likeable and sincere guy. Nothing fake about him at all.
          Exactly, I thought they were both pretty good here. I hadn't seen this before. Some of the "metal dudes" hosting from back then is pretty embarrassing, but this was very good..

          It seems the first few years Eric was in the band; he was friends with Paul and they would hang out a bit. Last few years seems it was purely just a business relationship.. I mean they could get on to a point - like in this video clip, etc..

          I could be wrong, but I still believe had he lived, (i.e. not gotten sick), Gene would have batted for Eric, at least for a while, and he stays in KISS at least for a couple more years. It wouldn't have looked good - dumping Eric at that point. It's possible Paul gets convinced of that, and Eric stays around at least for a couple more years post '91.
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          Doose
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          Re: Eric Carr relationship with Paul Stanley

          Post by Doose »

          In hindsight, maybe KISS SHOULD have brought in a name drummer like Carmine Appice to replace Peter, or Punky Meadows to replace Ace, to help balance the shift in power and ego. Maybe if they had a name person who took a percentage, had a voice and had a say, it would have made for a stronger band.
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          TwistedTaste
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          Re: Eric Carr relationship with Paul Stanlley

          Post by TwistedTaste »

          Doose wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 12:33 am In hindsight, maybe KISS SHOULD have brought in a name drummer like Carmine Appice to replace Peter, or Punky Meadows to replace Ace, to help balance the shift in power and ego. Maybe if they had a name person who took a percentage, had a voice and had a say, it would have made for a stronger band.
          You are correct of course, 100% - but Paul never would have allowed this to happen.

          Once the originals left Paul began his solo band masquerading as Kiss crap. He would never answer to - or listen to - anyone’s opinion ever again (including Gene).

          This actually began around the time of Dynasty when he stuck IWMFLY on there despite the other guys wishes.

          Kiss died in 79

          Resurrected in 96 for a short time until Ace & Peter couldn’t stand his & Gene’s BS anymore.