Vinnie Vincent vs Eddie Van Halen

[TheSpoiler]

It's an interesting one, Eddie was an icon and an innovator and a much more important musician than VV.

But in a listening pleasure shoot out, I'll choose Creatures of the Night and Lick It Up over Women and Children First and Fair Warning.

That said, it doesn't have to be a battle, like em all if you want to. The question is as valid as the Simmons vs Pastorius thread. Pastorius is clearly a better player, but I'm a fan of Gene Simmons.

[KISS#1]

I prefer Vinnie Vincent since I've only listened to a few Van Halen songs.

[doombies]

yeah. faster to the point where it’s way too sloppy and not melodic. faster is not always better

You have a MSJ avatar. He was a shredder.

no shit.

[Lofton23rdSt]

That's all you got?

Vinnie fans.

I am not a Vinnie defender.

[Lofton23rdSt]

yeah. faster to the point where it’s way too sloppy and not melodic. faster is not always better

You have a MSJ avatar. He was a shredder.

no shit.

You're a hypocrite.

[Lofton23rdSt]

And Ace Frehley did more than Vinnie did if you multiplied it by what Mark St. John did and Ace had a tenth of the ability of either of them.

He was saying that Vinnie wasn't as good as him, because of he didn't do as much.

[Lofton23rdSt]

It's not a silly poll. I'm not comparing their legacies. You could argue that Vinnie could outplay Eddie.

In the 3.5 albums of recorded music Vinnie has released, he has yet to come close to accomplishing what Eddie Van Halen accomplished on Van Halen.

It's ludicrous to think anything differently.

I said I'm not comparing their legacies.

[Lofton23rdSt]

The folks I see getting into car wrecks because they're driving faster than make are better drivers?

Vinnie's fast playing is basically a car wreck. It's not like can play as fast as Hammett, Mustaine, Vai, St. John, and I could go on and on.

Because when Vinnie plays fast, it sounds like detuned fart. He has no concept of melody or structure. It's just him throwing up notes.

Shredding is a skill. I said I would choose Eddie, but some people may choose Vinnie.

[Lofton23rdSt]

Yeah, no love for the poster to whom you're responding, but in this instance, he's right.

Instead of responding to someone's post, you're responding to their avatars.

That's... not really a mature debate style.

He said that my poll was silly. I did respond in the thread.

[ace_frehley]

This has to be a joke right?

it is a BIG ONE. people who think Vinnie is better than Eddie needs to get their fucking head checked!!

I couldn't agree more

[doombies]

And Ace Frehley did more than Vinnie did if you multiplied it by what Mark St. John did and Ace had a tenth of the ability of either of them.

He was saying that Vinnie wasn't as good as him, because of he didn't do as much.

I didn’t even mention Mark St John when I was comparing Vinnie and Eddie, (something that should’ve never happened), lol you’re the hypocrite

[ace_frehley]

yeah. faster to the point where it’s way too sloppy and not melodic. faster is not always better

You have a MSJ avatar. He was a shredder.

no shit.

You're a hypocrite.

Is your only comeback about people avatars?

[Fartbone]

yeah. faster to the point where it’s way too sloppy and not melodic. faster is not always better

You have a MSJ avatar. He was a shredder.

no shit.

You're a hypocrite.

Coo coo
Coo coo

[battra]

And Ace Frehley did more than Vinnie did if you multiplied it by what Mark St. John did and Ace had a tenth of the ability of either of them.

He was saying that Vinnie wasn't as good as him, because of he didn't do as much.

Then Vinnie isn't as good as Ace because he didn't do as much.

Silly isn't it?

[battra]

It's not a silly poll. I'm not comparing their legacies. You could argue that Vinnie could outplay Eddie.

In the 3.5 albums of recorded music Vinnie has released, he has yet to come close to accomplishing what Eddie Van Halen accomplished on Van Halen.

It's ludicrous to think anything differently.

I said I'm not comparing their legacies.

I didn't compare their legacies either. I'm comparing Vinnies complete recorded output to Eddie's first single album.

[battra]

The folks I see getting into car wrecks because they're driving faster than make are better drivers?

Vinnie's fast playing is basically a car wreck. It's not like can play as fast as Hammett, Mustaine, Vai, St. John, and I could go on and on.

Because when Vinnie plays fast, it sounds like detuned fart. He has no concept of melody or structure. It's just him throwing up notes.

Shredding is a skill. I said I would choose Eddie, but some people may choose Vinnie.

Shredding is a skill.

It's one Vinnie doesn't possess however.

And I love noodly woodly guitarists.

[battra]

Yeah, no love for the poster to whom you're responding, but in this instance, he's right.

Instead of responding to someone's post, you're responding to their avatars.

That's... not really a mature debate style.

He said that my poll was silly. I did respond in the thread.

Your poll is silly.

It's like saying who's better...

Connor McDavid or Terry Ryan?

Both were first round picks, but one of them had a whole career of great moments whereas one was a blip on the radar.

[KLP68]

Who is Vinnie Vincent?

[doombies]

Who is Vinnie Vincent?

a highly androgynous creature

[Lofton23rdSt]

I didn’t even mention Mark St John when I was comparing Vinnie and Eddie, (something that should’ve never happened), lol you’re the hypocrite

But you're talking about Vinnie playing too fast. Gene said Mark played too fast.

[Lofton23rdSt]

And Ace Frehley did more than Vinnie did if you multiplied it by what Mark St. John did and Ace had a tenth of the ability of either of them.

He was saying that Vinnie wasn't as good as him, because of he didn't do as much.

Then Vinnie isn't as good as Ace because he didn't do as much.

Silly isn't it?

He's a Mark St. John superfan. I said that Vinnie did more than Mark did.

[Lofton23rdSt]

I didn't compare their legacies either. I'm comparing Vinnies complete recorded output to Eddie's first single album.

He can still be a better guitar player than him.

[Lofton23rdSt]

Shredding is a skill.

It's one Vinnie doesn't possess however.

And I love noodly woodly guitarists.

Yes he is a shredder. You're sounding stupid.

[Tito]

You know it's real interesting, I didn't have Lofton23rdSt down as a troll before this thread.

[Lofton23rdSt]

Your poll is silly.

It's like saying who's better...

Connor McDavid or Terry Ryan?

Both were first round picks, but one of them had a whole career of great moments whereas one was a blip on the radar.

My poll is silly? You said that Ace's song "Give Me a Feeling" was better than anything Kiss has done since "Love Gun" lol.

He can be a better guitarist and song writer if he didn't have as big of a career.

[Lofton23rdSt]

You know it's real interesting, I didn't have Lofton23rdSt down as a troll before this thread.

I'm not a troll. I'm responding to people who think I'm comparing their legacies or that no one could choose a guitarist who didn't have as much of a career.

[In the Suds]

I'm The One isolated guitar track. 42 years and still jaw-dropping.

[Glasgow Kiss]

The folks I see getting into car wrecks because they're driving faster than make are better drivers?

Vinnie's fast playing is basically a car wreck. It's not like can play as fast as Hammett, Mustaine, Vai, St. John, and I could go on and on.

Because when Vinnie plays fast, it sounds like detuned fart. He has no concept of melody or structure. It's just him throwing up notes.

Shredding is a skill. I said I would choose Eddie, but some people may choose Vinnie.

Since the mid/late 80s it's been a niche "skill" that no-one's really interested in apart from other shredders - you could equate it to being able to thatch a roof - vaguely interesting, but it isn't gonna get you much work and make you rich in 2020.

It's basically the online gaming of the guitar world in as much as you'll spend a lot of time in your basement only interacting with people in THEIR basements...there's a video up of Youtube of some clown playing at 1600bpm. Applying shred standards, does that make him the world's best guitar player? It shouldn't, because it sounds like shit.

Q. How many shred guitar players does it take to change a lightbulb?

A. 100 - one to change the lightbulb, and 99 to leave disparaging comments on the first one's Youtube channel about they could have done it better..

[Lofton23rdSt]

Since the mid/late 80s it's been a niche "skill" that no-one's really interested in apart from other shredders - you could equate it to being able to thatch a roof - vaguely interesting, but it isn't gonna get you much work and make you rich in 2020.

Same with Eddie's style.

[Glasgow Kiss]

Since the mid/late 80s it's been a niche "skill" that no-one's really interested in apart from other shredders - you could equate it to being able to thatch a roof - vaguely interesting, but it isn't gonna get you much work and make you rich in 2020.

Same with Eddie's style.

So clearly not the case I don't know where to begin...let's just say you'd be hard pressed to find any guitar player of the last forty years in the rock idiom that doesn't quote him as an influence and incorporate elements of his vocabulary in their playing.

Look, you created this poll...we're still not sure exactly what question you were asking, whether it was make a choice based on influence, playing skills, popularity or whatever metric you had in mind...well, the votes are pretty much in, and it's a 90%+ landslide.

On a Kiss board - anywhere else it would be 100% to all intents and purposes. In all honesty, even asking the question is unfair on Vinnie - if he was on here (and who's to say he's not lol) I'm sure he'd cite EVH as one of the handful of players that was capable of changing the entire paradigm of his chosen instrument.

[Bruce]

Edward is the vastly superior musician and song writer. I'm a huge fan of Van Hagar, especially, but the album 1984 is just incredible. Vincent, on the other hand, did an amazing job during his tenure in KIϟϟ. The Lick It Up record is a personal favorite of mine, in no small part due to his participation and talent. I like his shredding, for the most part.

[Vandelay Industries]

I didn't compare their legacies either. I'm comparing Vinnies complete recorded output to Eddie's first single album.

He can still be a better guitar player than him.

So if actual recorded output doesn't cut it, then what are we doing, going by word of mouth then? Quick, get someone who attended one of Vinnie's secret parties to weigh in with an unbiased opinion

[Wichita77]

This thread proves two things.

One: That EVH is the clear winner. This poll is on a KISS board too, where people actually know who VV is.

Two: VV has some diehard fans who really take a lot of heat as they strive to prove his greatness.

Sphinx will lay out facts, quotes, stats, timelines and theories, while Rip makes his case while trying to have some fun with it, and Loft here sets out to pit VV against the truly iconic EVH.

What's sad here is that VV doesn't come to the rescue of these fans. Rather than upload a clip of him playing, or tearing it up on stage when he played with Four by Fate, he leaves it to his fans to continuously fight his battles with nothing but decades old past "success" to use as ammunition.

Vinnie, if you do read the posts on this board, help your Boyz out.

[battra]

And Ace Frehley did more than Vinnie did if you multiplied it by what Mark St. John did and Ace had a tenth of the ability of either of them.

He was saying that Vinnie wasn't as good as him, because of he didn't do as much.

Then Vinnie isn't as good as Ace because he didn't do as much.

Silly isn't it?

He's a Mark St. John superfan. I said that Vinnie did more than Mark did.

When you have the law, pound the law.

When you have the facts, pound the facts.

When you have nothing, pound the desk.

You gotta be putting a dent in that desk today.

[battra]

I didn't compare their legacies either. I'm comparing Vinnies complete recorded output to Eddie's first single album.

He can still be a better guitar player than him.

The only way that's possible is if Vinnie was purposely playing poorly on all of his albums.

[battra]

Shredding is a skill.

It's one Vinnie doesn't possess however.

And I love noodly woodly guitarists.

Yes he is a shredder. You're sounding stupid.

Yeah, he says he is.

Lots of people say they're something they're not.

Shredding is a term to describe the highest levels of technique. Vinnie doesn't have those. He can vomit out notes quickly, but he doesn't do it well.

[battra]

Your poll is silly.

It's like saying who's better...

Connor McDavid or Terry Ryan?

Both were first round picks, but one of them had a whole career of great moments whereas one was a blip on the radar.

My poll is silly? You said that Ace's song "Give Me a Feeling" was better than anything Kiss has done since "Love Gun" lol.

He can be a better guitarist and song writer if he didn't have as big of a career.

I said it was the better than any song Kiss did since Love Gun? I know I think it's the best Kiss song in years, but since Love Gun? I'm gonna need the receipts on that one.

He could be a better guitarist and songwriter if he chose to mask his ability all this time.

That's the only logical conclusion at this point.

[battra]

I didn't compare their legacies either. I'm comparing Vinnies complete recorded output to Eddie's first single album.

He can still be a better guitar player than him.

So if actual recorded output doesn't cut it, then what are we doing, going by word of mouth then? Quick, get someone who attended one of Vinnie's secret parties to weigh in with an unbiased opinion

You can't judge them based on what they did.

You can only judge them based on what you THINK they COULD do if only Vinnie had a solo project.

He'd have shown us.

[kenn.ace]

Eddie Van Halen

[Lofton23rdSt]

When you have the law, pound the law.

When you have the facts, pound the facts.

When you have nothing, pound the desk.

You gotta be putting a dent in that desk today.

No, you're a troll. He is a MSJ superfan and said Vinnie didn't do anything.

[Lofton23rdSt]

The only way that's possible is if Vinnie was purposely playing poorly on all of his albums.

He had good solos, and they were difficult.

[Lofton23rdSt]

Yeah, he says he is.

Lots of people say they're something they're not.

Shredding is a term to describe the highest levels of technique. Vinnie doesn't have those. He can vomit out notes quickly, but he doesn't do it well.

People who worked with him say he was a talented guitarist. He was called a shredder.

[Lofton23rdSt]

I said it was the better than any song Kiss did since Love Gun? I know I think it's the best Kiss song in years, but since Love Gun? I'm gonna need the receipts on that one.

He could be a better guitarist and songwriter if he chose to mask his ability all this time.

That's the only logical conclusion at this point.

You did say that. It's a poll.

[aceeg]

Stupid thread!

[Vatreni]

I'm The One isolated guitar track. 42 years and still jaw-dropping.

Magic!

[Fartbone]

The only way that's possible is if Vinnie was purposely playing poorly on all of his albums.

He had good solos, and they were difficult.

Lol.

Fucking lol

[Frehley's Vomit]

Yeah, no love for the poster to whom you're responding, but in this instance, he's right.

Instead of responding to someone's post, you're responding to their avatars.

That's... not really a mature debate style.

He said that my poll was silly. I did respond in the thread.

I didn't say it was 'silly' at all. However, along with almost everyone else in the thread, I'm saying it now.

battra is correct. You responded by questioning the legitimacy of my avatar on this forum, rather than my response itself.

[Frehley's Vomit]

When you have the law, pound the law.

When you have the facts, pound the facts.

When you have nothing, pound the desk.

You gotta be putting a dent in that desk today.

No, you're a troll. He is a MSJ superfan and said Vinnie didn't do anything.

How the hell is he a troll?

[Tommyr]

The only way that's possible is if Vinnie was purposely playing poorly on all of his albums.

He had good solos, and they were difficult.

His solos were shit. IMHO. And who cares if they were "difficult"?

[metalfuel]

28 votes for VV so far.

Explain that.