Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

The broadest possible category for KISS discussion. Everything to do with KISS and its members, past and present. Posts offering bootleg, pirate, or illegal items, or links to those items, will be deleted. Please refer to the Terms Of Service (TOS) for this site for maximum board experience. Should any post contain material that violates your copyright, please follow the instructions on the DMCA takedown notice page.
User avatar
LordThurisaz
Nearly as many posts as KISS compilations!
Nearly as many posts as KISS compilations!
Posts: 18800
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2007 3:37 pm
Location: Leader of the Misery Brigade

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Post by LordThurisaz » Mon Sep 02, 2019 12:59 pm

TheSphinx wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 5:00 pm
Is it a coincidence they went with the Egyptian theme and had Slaughter open for them? Think about it.
Maybe they were trying to subliminally use Vinnie and the great success he had to help them.


It is funny that on many nights Slaughter was selling close to what KISS were in merch. Those former VVI guys sure put alot of butts in seats on that tour. That's for sure.
The only possible "conspiracy theory" here, Alex Jones, is that they might be mocking Vinnie for his financial and band issues with The Street Giveth...

EggFlip
Trained by Tommy!
Trained by Tommy!
Posts: 657
Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2014 4:11 pm

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Post by EggFlip » Mon Sep 02, 2019 2:01 pm

No doubt a better album. Paul singing invasion would be interesting.
Roberts voice as good as it was was not radio friendly and I fell the vvi songs would have done better radio wise with kiss.

As for hits tour both winger and slaughter were getting mote MTV play than kiss but hide your heart and forever were doing well. The kind of people buying hide your heart and forever were not kiss fans in general they were flighty top 40 fans. I was shocked at how many people didn't know many of the old kiss tunes played live on that tour. I think it has similarities to dynasty other than the new audience was a bit older.

EggFlip
Trained by Tommy!
Trained by Tommy!
Posts: 657
Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2014 4:11 pm

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Post by EggFlip » Mon Sep 02, 2019 2:03 pm

Coincidentally kip winger and I guess the keyboard player from winger were on tour with Vinnie and two slaughter members on Alice Cooper's constrictor tour so guessing they all knew each other pretty well.

User avatar
Rip Rokken
Super Elite KISS Fan
Super Elite KISS Fan
Posts: 1363
Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2019 1:38 pm

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Post by Rip Rokken » Mon Sep 02, 2019 2:05 pm

EggFlip wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 2:03 pm
Coincidentally kip winger and I guess the keyboard player from winger were on tour with Vinnie and two slaughter members on Alice Cooper's constrictor tour so guessing they all knew each other pretty well.
KB player for Winger = Paul Taylor. Excellent, multitalented musician.

User avatar
Frehley's Vomit
Nearly as many posts as KISS compilations!
Nearly as many posts as KISS compilations!
Posts: 11626
Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2006 11:08 pm

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Post by Frehley's Vomit » Tue Sep 03, 2019 6:36 am

TheSphinx wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 5:00 pm
Is it a coincidence they went with the Egyptian theme and had Slaughter open for them? Think about it.
Maybe they were trying to subliminally use Vinnie and the great success he had to help them.
:lol:

User avatar
TheSphinx
Banned
Banned
Posts: 6181
Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2012 6:17 pm

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Post by TheSphinx » Sat Sep 14, 2019 11:39 am

If only those songs Vinnie was working with had not turned out so well.... who knows what would have happened.

I still love Gene and Paul lying out of their butts and acting like Vinnie was fired after the end of the LICK IT UP tour.

Funny how Gene was calling Vinnie almost everyday while Vinnie was in the studio. Even Hirsch pointed that fact out. Gene is begging Vinnie to come back. And of course with Gene having movie projects etc on tap and no songs at all ready for the next album..... it was fitting.

It's funny how Gene never gets asked that in interviews etc.

User avatar
Doose
Super Elite KISS Fan
Super Elite KISS Fan
Posts: 1373
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2018 7:15 pm
Location: San Francisco, CA

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Post by Doose » Sat Sep 14, 2019 11:42 am

Vinnie Vincent put out HIS version of "Animalize" - it was the first VVI album. He had full control.

Was it a best-selling album?

I guess we can put an end to any notion that it would have been one of KISS' best selling albums too then.

User avatar
TheSphinx
Banned
Banned
Posts: 6181
Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2012 6:17 pm

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Post by TheSphinx » Sat Sep 14, 2019 11:49 am

Doose wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 11:42 am
I guess we can put an end to any notion that it would have been one of KISS' best selling albums too then.

Although Vinnie's solo album was the fastest selling debut in the history of Chrysalis Records (up to that point) and was around 500K in sales when ASG came out (which is impressive considering only 1 video.... because George Sewitt lied to the label).... that has nothing to do with how great it would have done as a KISS album.

The momentum was on KISS' side. That would have been the knockout punch they needed. Three strong, great albums in a row.

There was a reason GENE was calling Vinnie daily trying to get him to come back. Gene at least was smart enough to know how bad they needed Vinnie. Hell, it was Gene who was smart enough to get Vinnie back for Revenge after they had 4 mediocre albums in a row.

Only 1 song from Animalize was even played at least 1/2 of the tour dates on the Asylum tour. ONLY 1 SONG. That shows you how little they thought of "Animalize".

Animalize could have easily been a triple or quadruple platinum album with the songs & direction Vinnie would have brought with it.

User avatar
Doose
Super Elite KISS Fan
Super Elite KISS Fan
Posts: 1373
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2018 7:15 pm
Location: San Francisco, CA

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Post by Doose » Sat Sep 14, 2019 11:51 am

But the bottom line is: Vinnie never had a best-selling album (even when he put out the songs he wanted, and how he wanted), he's never had a hit song, and he's never made a living as a songwriter. I don't think he even owns his own publishing these days.

User avatar
Tito
2,000 Man, baby!
2,000 Man, baby!
Posts: 2495
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2018 7:36 am
Location: Shady side of town.

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Post by Tito » Sat Sep 14, 2019 12:16 pm

TheSphinx wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 11:49 am
There was a reason GENE was calling Vinnie daily trying to get him to come back.
Man, this shit's too funny. :lol: I bet all the magazines were talking about Gene calling Vinnie daily too.

User avatar
TheSphinx
Banned
Banned
Posts: 6181
Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2012 6:17 pm

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Post by TheSphinx » Sat Sep 14, 2019 12:18 pm

Tito wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 12:16 pm
TheSphinx wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 11:49 am
There was a reason GENE was calling Vinnie daily trying to get him to come back.
Man, this shit's too funny. :lol: I bet all the magazines were talking about Gene calling Vinnie daily too.
No, but Hirsch Gardner certainly confirmed it for all the unbelievers

User avatar
LordThurisaz
Nearly as many posts as KISS compilations!
Nearly as many posts as KISS compilations!
Posts: 18800
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2007 3:37 pm
Location: Leader of the Misery Brigade

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Post by LordThurisaz » Sat Sep 14, 2019 12:45 pm

Tito wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 12:16 pm
TheSphinx wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 11:49 am
There was a reason GENE was calling Vinnie daily trying to get him to come back.
Man, this shit's too funny. :lol: I bet all the magazines were talking about Gene calling Vinnie daily too.
Yup. "Vinnie, can you please come back? Our last album was full of filler... can we get more of that, please?" Give me a break. :lol:

User avatar
TheSphinx
Banned
Banned
Posts: 6181
Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2012 6:17 pm

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Post by TheSphinx » Tue Sep 17, 2019 7:00 am

LordThurisaz wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 12:45 pm
Tito wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 12:16 pm
TheSphinx wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 11:49 am
There was a reason GENE was calling Vinnie daily trying to get him to come back.
Man, this shit's too funny. :lol: I bet all the magazines were talking about Gene calling Vinnie daily too.
Yup. "Vinnie, can you please come back? Our last album was full of filler... can we get more of that, please?" Give me a break. :lol:

Filler? If they were allegedly filler then why were so many released as videos and played live?


You can bet if they had used Vinnie's songs for Animalize... KISS wouldn't have only been doing 1 SINGLE SONG from Animalize on the next tour. Only one stinking song off Animalize was played at least 45% of the Asylum tour dates. Animalize was FULL OF FILLER.

Asylum was even worse filler.

User avatar
gabbagabba
Trained by Tommy!
Trained by Tommy!
Posts: 690
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2011 7:33 am

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Post by gabbagabba » Tue Sep 17, 2019 7:11 am

TheSphinx wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 11:49 am

Animalize could have easily been a triple or quadruple platinum album with the songs & direction Vinnie would have brought with it.
Yes, that's for sure.
I loved Vinnie's work with the Beatles "White Album" and don't foget Vinnie's songs on "Nevermind" by Nirvana.
It's a shame that Vinnie did so many great things for others (just think about Queen's "Bohemian Rapsody") and then NO solo career after 1989.

acevog75
Super Elite KISS Fan
Super Elite KISS Fan
Posts: 1807
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 3:23 pm

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Post by acevog75 » Tue Sep 17, 2019 7:50 am

If the songs turned out like they did on VVI, no way.....If they went through the process that Vinnie’s ideas went through on Lick It Up, then it had the potential to be a good selling album. As it stands, it sold as well as a KISS album would sell in the 80’s regardless. I highly doubt they had any chance of doing Bon Jovi or Def Leppard numbers. Not with those songs or whatever would have become of the songs that Vinnie was planning on bringing to them for Animalize.

User avatar
J-Lefty
Super Elite KISS Fan
Super Elite KISS Fan
Posts: 1823
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 6:36 am
Location: New Jersey

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Post by J-Lefty » Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:10 am

Animalize would have done better if it was produced by Michael J Jackson

User avatar
LordThurisaz
Nearly as many posts as KISS compilations!
Nearly as many posts as KISS compilations!
Posts: 18800
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2007 3:37 pm
Location: Leader of the Misery Brigade

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Post by LordThurisaz » Tue Sep 17, 2019 9:32 am

A band... playing new songs off an album... live? It's almost as if they are trying to push the album sales or something. Weird, that.

Doesn't prove they aren't filler.

acevog75
Super Elite KISS Fan
Super Elite KISS Fan
Posts: 1807
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 3:23 pm

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Post by acevog75 » Tue Sep 17, 2019 9:45 am

J-Lefty wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:10 am
Animalize would have done better if it was produced by Michael J Jackson
Perhaps, but he would have to tell Gene to write new songs or work a little harder on the ones he brought. As far as production goes, I think the basic tracks and vocals are perfectly fine as far as sound and performance goes. I think the solos were a little strange sounding and not very memorable, but maybe that was a style choice on Paul’s part to keep up with the shredders. It sounds like a lot of the solos were doubled, but it’s almost as if one of the tracks was racing to keep up with the other track. Almost like the way Tony Iommi would double his solos, but they were never quite the same with each other. It worked for him because he wasn’t trying to crank out a million notes. Maybe as a producer MJJ would have taken a different approach to make them more tuneful? I think Bruce shredded on Asylum but it was tasteful and tuneful for the most part. But I think if MJJ was a producer in the way that Eddie Kramer was for KISS, which was more of an engineer and not a song arranger, than I believe it would’ve had no bearing on sales at all.

User avatar
TheSphinx
Banned
Banned
Posts: 6181
Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2012 6:17 pm

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Post by TheSphinx » Tue Sep 17, 2019 9:53 am

J-Lefty wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:10 am
Animalize would have done better if it was produced by Michael J Jackson
Maybe. But he did produce the album "Killers" and you could have easily called those 4 new tracks that were supposed to be used on COTN.. "FILLERS".

acevog75
Super Elite KISS Fan
Super Elite KISS Fan
Posts: 1807
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 3:23 pm

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Post by acevog75 » Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:04 am

TheSphinx wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 9:53 am
J-Lefty wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:10 am
Animalize would have done better if it was produced by Michael J Jackson
Maybe. But he did produce the album "Killers" and you could have easily called those 4 new tracks that were supposed to be used on COTN.. "FILLERS".
Nowhere To Run is solid. I think the rest range from ok to some of the worst they’ve ever done up to that point. Down On Your Knees is just a terrible song. KISS at their most generic up to that point. That said, at least they were trying to get back on track, they had to start somewhere I guess. The fact that DOYK made it onto that compilation KISS40 shows how clueless the record company could be at times. Terrible choice

User avatar
Tito
2,000 Man, baby!
2,000 Man, baby!
Posts: 2495
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2018 7:36 am
Location: Shady side of town.

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Post by Tito » Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:24 am

I love "Partners In Crime", always have.

User avatar
UltraCynic
Super Elite KISS Fan
Super Elite KISS Fan
Posts: 1318
Joined: Fri May 03, 2013 8:48 am
Location: Necropolis
Contact:

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Post by UltraCynic » Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:33 pm

I could not BELIEVE how average the songs on Killers were, which made the jump in quality on COTN even more noticeable.

The only thing of note on those 4 songs was Bob Kulick’s lead guitar work. Salute!

User avatar
gabbagabba
Trained by Tommy!
Trained by Tommy!
Posts: 690
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2011 7:33 am

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Post by gabbagabba » Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:43 pm

I really love "I'm a Legend Tonight" and "Nowhere to Run", two great songs.
They certainly weren't fillers.

ville77
Welcome To The Show!
Welcome To The Show!
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2007 3:07 am

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Post by ville77 » Wed Sep 18, 2019 7:01 am

I would be interested to know that what songs Gene and Paul had written for Animalize when Vinnie Vincent left the band (or got fired..).

Most of the Gene songs on Animalize were pretty much fillers, like "Lonely is the hunter". That song is basically a one riff song.
Were Gene and Paul "forced" to record those Gene songs because they cound't use the songs Vinnie wrote for Kiss?
Maybe they were running out of time and the record had to be ready??

User avatar
ObiWanFrehley
Trained by Tommy!
Trained by Tommy!
Posts: 599
Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2009 12:07 pm

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Post by ObiWanFrehley » Wed Sep 18, 2019 7:20 am

TheSphinx wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 5:41 pm
I was certainly joking about the HITS tour. It is a hilarious coincidence.

But it is true Slaughter was selling the merch I mentioned.
Slaughter was big with the chicks back then, I am sure that Slaughter helped bring in some people for the KISS shows. The single Forever is what made the HITS tour possible, I don't think KISS was even going to tour for that album initially, but scoring a hit made it possible. The Rise to It video generated some buzz too for obvious reasons. KISS playing the vintage stuff brought in a few more people who had grown weary of the absence of classic KISS songs from the previous tours.

The HITS shows I attended (2 shows) were some of the best KISS shows I have been to.

User avatar
TheSphinx
Banned
Banned
Posts: 6181
Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2012 6:17 pm

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Post by TheSphinx » Wed Sep 18, 2019 7:50 am

UltraCynic wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:33 pm
I could not BELIEVE how average the songs on Killers were, which made the jump in quality on COTN even more noticeable.

The only thing of note on those 4 songs was Bob Kulick’s lead guitar work. Salute!
Amen! It was NIGHT AND DAY DIFFERENCE.... that and the tone/feeling of the album. What was the ONE THING that was different between the recording of Killers tracks and COTN tracks? hmmmmm Let me see....

User avatar
Doose
Super Elite KISS Fan
Super Elite KISS Fan
Posts: 1373
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2018 7:15 pm
Location: San Francisco, CA

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Post by Doose » Wed Sep 18, 2019 9:30 am

I guess Animalize would have sold MILLIONS with Vinnie's compositions.

Just like the two VVI albums did?

User avatar
LordThurisaz
Nearly as many posts as KISS compilations!
Nearly as many posts as KISS compilations!
Posts: 18800
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2007 3:37 pm
Location: Leader of the Misery Brigade

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Post by LordThurisaz » Wed Sep 18, 2019 9:50 am

Doose wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 9:30 am
I guess Animalize would have sold MILLIONS with Vinnie's compositions.

Just like the two VVI albums did?
They were YUUUUGE...

User avatar
TheSphinx
Banned
Banned
Posts: 6181
Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2012 6:17 pm

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Post by TheSphinx » Thu Sep 19, 2019 7:38 am

Doose wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 9:30 am
I guess Animalize would have sold MILLIONS with Vinnie's compositions.
Yes, easily 3-4M. Kiss had the great momentum going for them. But the fact that Animalize didn't deliver much more than one song... meant that momentum fell big time.

Anomaly
Nearly as many posts as KISS compilations!
Nearly as many posts as KISS compilations!
Posts: 22718
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2009 9:51 pm

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Post by Anomaly » Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:12 am

Jesus Christ. :lol:

User avatar
PterCriss
Spends too much time FAQ'ing off!
Spends too much time FAQ'ing off!
Posts: 2571
Joined: Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:31 pm

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Post by PterCriss » Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:38 am

the King.

User avatar
TheSphinx
Banned
Banned
Posts: 6181
Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2012 6:17 pm

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Post by TheSphinx » Sat Sep 21, 2019 11:28 am

ville77 wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 7:01 am
I would be interested to know that what songs Gene and Paul had written for Animalize when Vinnie Vincent left the band (or got fired..).

Most of the Gene songs on Animalize were pretty much fillers, like "Lonely is the hunter". That song is basically a one riff song.
Were Gene and Paul "forced" to record those Gene songs because they cound't use the songs Vinnie wrote for Kiss?
Maybe they were running out of time and the record had to be ready??

Vinnie wasn't officially "gone" till around June 17th, 1984.

Did anyone ever ask Paul how they came up with the name Animalize? I do wonder how Kiss would have sounded singing "Animal".

Post Reply