Lick It Up Cover Conspiracy - Proof?

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Re: Lick It Up Cover Conspiracy - Proof

Post by sicksickphil »

kisswah wrote:
Strutter67 wrote:And on FB they showed other photos proving Vinnie was at the photo shoot. Conspiracy debunked. Vinnie was probably wearing Gene's shirt. Yes Vinnie was wearing a wig and supposedly Mark wore the same wig a year later, lol
I would love to see more photos of the shoot.
l_468ca9717ec04a31974d6f0e5b437957%20%281%29.jpg
how long is VV's left arm ?
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Re: Lick It Up Cover Conspiracy - Proof?

Post by PitViper »

Tarantulabelt wrote:
PitViper wrote:
Tarantulabelt wrote:Guys, you're forgetting the most obvious case of, "Mannequin on a KISS cover".
Look at ACE. See that pole behind him? HE WASN'T THERE. Probably too busy playing cards.
I've never heard that. Are you serious about the Ace and DTK photo shoot?


No, I'm just messin'!

Haha, good, cause I thought I was missin' out on something!
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Re: Lick It Up Cover Conspiracy - Proof?

Post by Fickdich »

Around 2002 I found Bernard Vidal's homepage by accident. Vidal is the photographer who did the UNMASKED promo pics as well as the LIU and Animalize pics among others. I wrote him an email and asked him if there are any outtakes from those sessions that he could show me and he wrote me back and said that there are tons of pics but they are either not in his posession anymore or just doesn't know where they are. He was very friendly and told little stories from those sessions, e.g. that the UNMASKED promo photos with Ace (those with the roboter) were being taken in a shopping mall in NYC in the middle of the night, that Mark wore the same wig for the Animalize shoot as Vinnie did for LIU, etc. With not one single word he mentioned that Vinnie wasn't present for the LIU photo session.
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Re: Lick It Up Cover Conspiracy - Proof?

Post by Red Walrus »

I can't believe it. I think his left arm looks weird among other things from a bad cut and paste (literally) job.
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Re: Lick It Up Cover Conspiracy - Proof?

Post by C »

looks weird for the oversized shirt
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Re: Lick It Up Cover Conspiracy - Proof?

Post by Pieter Kriss »

There is something kinda weird about posing around a mannequin... was that actually done?
It is hard to believe... and that also doesn't look like a human body... who the hell knows.
It's strange that no other photos from this session are floating around. I'd at least expect to see a contact sheet with other shots from this session.
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Re: Lick It Up Cover Conspiracy - Proof?

Post by PeterChrissmas »

Pieter Kriss wrote:There is something kinda weird about posing around a mannequin... was that actually done?
It is hard to believe... and that also doesn't look like a human body... who the hell knows.
It's strange that no other photos from this session are floating around. I'd at least expect to see a contact sheet with other shots from this session.

At the very least... why are they pasting the same image of Vinnie on every single shot?
This coupled with the bizarre cropping of his arm suggests he may have not been there.
Kiss Expo guy says Eric Carr said he wasn't ... Neither has any reason to lie about it.

Dennis Woloch apparently denied this on FB... Who knows. Just saying "Not True" after 33 years.... who knows? Would he remember? I have no idea.

fun stuff.
My new theory... Vinnie was the only member to show up to the session in full makeup and costume. He was there for the photo shoot but needed to be airbrushed out for consistency.
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Re: Lick It Up Cover Conspiracy - Proof?

Post by C »

How come the 60K belt was there without him, nah....he was there for sure
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Re: Lick It Up Cover Conspiracy - Proof?

Post by PUNCHLINE »

Mannequin? id say not.

Cut and paste face etc from another shot? yep.
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Re: Lick It Up Cover Conspiracy - Proof?

Post by C »

Plus it's the oversized Gene shirt (it's oversized even for Gene) that makes him look that his arm is not there
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Re: Lick It Up Cover Conspiracy - Proof?

Post by Julien »

18190.jpg
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Re: Lick It Up Cover Conspiracy - Proof?

Post by 120 Decibels Jr. »

BOO RADLEY ....jpg













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Re: Lick It Up Cover Conspiracy - Proof?

Post by Phyllis Simmons »

I'm not sure of the mannequin theory myself; but some of the outtakes do support the theory..

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Re: Lick It Up Cover Conspiracy - Proof

Post by Man of a Thousand Aces »

C wrote:Here :
I bet that Gene still has that shirt with his Skull necklace and zippered LIU pants (that he used until 1987) around his collection.

Image
I seem to recall hearing that around the time of the Animalize Tour that someone had stolen Gene's Elder boots (which he was wearing on that tour) as well as some of his jewelry, including the skull necklace. That would why he was suddenly wearing painted leg-guards and sneakers onstage.
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Re: Lick It Up Cover Conspiracy - Proof

Post by C »

Man of a Thousand Aces wrote:
C wrote:Here :
I bet that Gene still has that shirt with his Skull necklace and zippered LIU pants (that he used until 1987) around his collection.

Image
I seem to recall hearing that around the time of the Animalize Tour that someone had stolen Gene's Elder boots (which he was wearing on that tour) as well as some of his jewelry, including the skull necklace. That would why he was suddenly wearing painted leg-guards and sneakers onstage.
Wow that's interesting. I'm pretty sure that he had two different skull necklaces but the boot covers were not lost, he auctioned those
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Re: Lick It Up Cover Conspiracy - Proof

Post by kinetic74 »

Strutter67 wrote:And on FB they showed other photos proving Vinnie was at the photo shoot. Conspiracy debunked. Vinnie was probably wearing Gene's shirt. Yes Vinnie was wearing a wig and supposedly Mark wore the same wig a year later, lol
Not necessarily. That shot supposedly "Debunking" it looks slightly fake as well. As though Vinnie was reshot later and dropped in. Eric and Gene are wearing different clothes so could be on a different day.
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Re: Lick It Up Cover Conspiracy - Proof

Post by kinetic74 »

shandi777 wrote:
C wrote:
Pieter Kriss wrote:
It doesn't exist. All the images from said photo session have the same Vinnie face stuck on a mannequin.
The animation at the top of this thread does a stellar job of demonstrating this.

Image
Case closed for me.
Lots of people are saying there are "hundreds" of shots from the shoot. I count two or three. Vinnie looks the same in the two in the traditional pose. Then there's that one where some are wearing different clothes. (so only two variations of Vinnie's head - hardly the proof he was on the shoot) Are we sure they are even shot on the same day? As i mentioned above Gene and Eric are in different clothes. Where are the other "outtakes" from this shoot.

If they could drop him into the main shot, they could drop him into this other shot.
Last edited by kinetic74 on Sun Feb 07, 2016 5:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Lick It Up Cover Conspiracy - Proof?

Post by C »

i believe those picture were auctioned but cannot remember when or where, ebay maybe
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Re: Lick It Up Cover Conspiracy - Proof?

Post by goinblind »

Admin wrote:
18190.jpg
They absolutely made the right choice in terms of which photo to go with on the cover. The cover photo is much more aggressive, sexier, cooler.

As far as Vinnie, it's so funny how with every incident discussed here, there are only two possible options: When discussing his guitar auction it was either he was selling a guitar known within the small subset of pics that people were familiar with, or it was a fake! Yet there was an easily found photo from the era of the guitar that was being auctioned.

In this case, the cover and outtakes are either all different heads, or it means he wasn't there. Yet it's pretty easy to say that all the known photos that are floating around (there's like 3 shown in this thread) were already altered with the favored head shot of Vinnie.

It's within the realm of possibility that he wasn't there, but it's the far less likely scenario, and definitely not anything that can be stated as certain at this point.
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Re: Lick It Up Cover Conspiracy - Proof?

Post by caligari »

goinblind wrote:
Admin wrote:
18190.jpg
They absolutely made the right choice in terms of which photo to go with on the cover. The cover photo is much more aggressive, sexier, cooler.

As far as Vinnie, it's so funny how with every incident discussed here, there are only two possible options: When discussing his guitar auction it was either he was selling a guitar known within the small subset of pics that people were familiar with, or it was a fake! Yet there was an easily found photo from the era of the guitar that was being auctioned.

In this case, the cover and outtakes are either all different heads, or it means he wasn't there. Yet it's pretty easy to say that all the known photos that are floating around (there's like 3 shown in this thread) were already altered with the favored head shot of Vinnie.

It's within the realm of possibility that he wasn't there, but it's the far less likely scenario, and definitely not anything that can be stated as certain at this point.
Agreed. Why all the same Vinnie head? Because Vinnie made a stupid duck face in almost every photo. Just like all the "sick to my stomach" faces he probably thought looked sexy that he made in the LIU & AHBL videos.
If we can believe all the face chopping of DYNASTY and the limb swapping of ANIMALIZE why is this so far fetched?
Genes "tongue face" that made the cover is a obvious paste in on another body. And like some one else mentioned, let's not get started on Gene's unrealistic flipper length hands.
Eric Carr LOVED to joke, and was not overly fond of Vinnie. It was probably a deadpan/straight faced lie/joke, that once Peter Arquette took the bait, Eric amused himself by not immediately fessing up. He probably meant too tell him the truth, but the conversation moved forward and he never got around to it or he simply forgot.
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Re: Lick It Up Cover Conspiracy - Proof?

Post by BeachJediSC »

I'm trying to figure WHY it's such a horrible thing, or even qualifies as a "conspiracy," for a band to use all kinds of tricks to make what they think is a cool visual image of them on an album cover? Are cutting, pasting, comping, wearing wigs, or swapping clothes ILLEGAL? It's a visual image on a rock'n'roll album cover, not the damn U.S. Constitution or the Magna Carta. I say to ANY band who wants to alter, chop, distort, airbrush, or rearrange ANYTHING on an album cover: GO FOR IT! It's just a flippin album cover. As for ANY band member not being present at a photo shoot, SO WHAT? Is that against the law? How is that some unearthed or shocking wisdom? Next is someone gonna tell us that pro wrestling is fake? :roll:
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Re: Lick It Up Cover Conspiracy - Proof?

Post by BeachJediSC »

...wait, the response prior to mine was about 4 days old. Am I guilty of committing that strangely-and-creepily-worded crime called "necrobumping?" It has REALLY gotten odd in terms of what qualifies as "good, bad, acceptable, or unacceptable" in the world of KISS and also in the bubble of KISSFAQ.com. "No extreme altering of images from a photo shoot, watch it with the wigs, and good lord, use EXTREME caution when considering what qualifies a post as being too old to respond to."
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Re: Lick It Up Cover Conspiracy - Proof

Post by kisswah »

kinetic74 wrote:
shandi777 wrote:
C wrote:
Pieter Kriss wrote:
It doesn't exist. All the images from said photo session have the same Vinnie face stuck on a mannequin.
The animation at the top of this thread does a stellar job of demonstrating this.

Image
Case closed for me.
Lots of people are saying there are "hundreds" of shots from the shoot. I count two or three. Vinnie looks the same in the two in the traditional pose. Then there's that one where some are wearing different clothes. (so only two variations of Vinnie's head - hardly the proof he was on the shoot) Are we sure they are even shot on the same day? As i mentioned above Gene and Eric are in different clothes. Where are the other "outtakes" from this shoot.

If they could drop him into the main shot, they could drop him into this other shot.
There are 4 shots. Each picture shows editing (Paul's arm in the b/w) and all the color ones feature the same Vinnie head.

If somebody has another one, please upload!
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Re: Lick It Up Cover Conspiracy - Proof?

Post by abusername »

Here's the only other photo I haven't seen posted yet. Notice Paul's wearing a different jacket.
IMG_20160208_0001++.jpg
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Re: Lick It Up Cover Conspiracy - Proof?

Post by C »

abusername wrote:Here's the only other photo I haven't seen posted yet. Notice Paul's wearing a different jacket.
IMG_20160208_0001++.jpg
Cool, Vinnie's face is different there, so he was there, it's slightly tilted to his right.
Notice how Paul's watch face change from white to black on the others.
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Re: Lick It Up Cover Conspiracy - Proof?

Post by kisswah »

abusername wrote:Here's the only other photo I haven't seen posted yet. Notice Paul's wearing a different jacket.
IMG_20160208_0001++.jpg
Thanks! Looks like the same Vinnie face again. Look at the hair/black line going down from his eyebrow on the right. Identical. Pretty weird to have him there always with the same expression ...
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Re: Lick It Up Cover Conspiracy - Proof?

Post by Diss »

In the Behind the Mask book, Woloch says about the LIU cover, "It's the only album cover I worked on where I wasn't there for the actual photo shoot. I guess they didn't think they needed any help."

So who knows?
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Re: Lick It Up Cover Conspiracy - Proof?

Post by OHKISSFAN »

Simple:
If you want to find out about the shoot - just ask Vinnie!
:lol:
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Re: Lick It Up Cover Conspiracy - Proof?

Post by C »

Sadly he won't pop his head from wherever is hiding :(
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Re: Lick It Up Cover Conspiracy - Proof?

Post by AceTattoo »

So y'all are sayin'. They brought a mannequin in to impersonate Vin?!!?? How early did these shenanigans start with G&P?!!! I hate that fuckin' mannequin!!!
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Re: Lick It Up Cover Conspiracy - Proof?

Post by goinblind »

AceTattoo wrote:So y'all are sayin'. They brought a mannequin in to impersonate Vin?!!?? How early did these shenanigans start with G&P?!!! I hate that fuckin' mannequin!!!
A mannequin saved KISS!!!
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Re: Lick It Up Cover Conspiracy - Proof?

Post by gene therapist »

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Re: Lick It Up Cover Conspiracy - Proof?

Post by Sam »

So where is the mannequin now? Was it sold at one of the auctions? Was it stolen out of the warehouse? Is it collecting dust next to Sam T. Serpent and the Destroyer cats? Would anyone be stupid enough to buy a fake one if I put it on Ebay?
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Re: Lick It Up Cover Conspiracy - Proof?

Post by kisswah »

I have the mannequin somewhere in my basement.
It is next to the Gene video bloodspitting on the first Lick It Up show ...
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Re: Lick It Up Cover Conspiracy - Proof

Post by Forevertj »

PeterChrissmas wrote:Wearing that shirt was a real bad move for Gene... It looks like someone threw a blouse into the Gorilla Pit at the Zoo...



VV.jpg



:mrgreen: Great comment.
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Re: Lick It Up Cover Conspiracy - Proof

Post by Stanley76 »

C wrote:Yes that's the one!
it has white buttons but you cannot see them well on the last pictures but even Gene looks like a mannequin with that oversized shirt


Image
Image


Bruce Kulick told me once that he wore Paul´s clothes on the Asylum tour.
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Re: Lick It Up Cover Conspiracy - Proof?

Post by C »

For sure, Gene wore Paul's 78 solo & 82 COTN belt on the Animalize & Asylum tours as well.
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Re: Lick It Up Cover Conspiracy - Proof?

Post by johnkissfan1974 »

I swear Peter was a mannaquin in most of kiss' 77 photo shoots. Aside for the "fists" pose on the cubes poster (and doll box) he always had the same boring face/standing pose.
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Re: Lick It Up Cover Conspiracy - Proof?

Post by johnkissfan1974 »

Was it ever discussed why vinnie wore a wig? It helped alot IMO - his original hairstyle looked like a mangy mess and the wig did wonders.
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Re: Lick It Up Cover Conspiracy - Proof

Post by KrazySwede »

C wrote:That was Gene's 1983 pink/purple shirt.
Image
Gene looks very much like Paul Dean in that photo.....
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Re: Lick It Up Cover Conspiracy - Proof

Post by C »

KrazySwede wrote:
C wrote:That was Gene's 1983 pink/purple shirt.
Image
Gene looks very much like Paul Dean in that photo.....
Same wigmaker :D
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Re: Lick It Up Cover Conspiracy - Proof?

Post by CHRIS ARMY »

I think with Gene and Paul's shit-talking about Vinnie over the years, they would have said something about it if he wasn't there.
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Re: Lick It Up Cover Conspiracy - Proof?

Post by C »

Dennis Woloch debunked it, He was There, Vincent was there, the "black stand" visible on some outtakes it's part of Vinnie's belt hanging.
http://www.kissfaq.com/forum11/viewtopic.php?t=112959" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Lick It Up Cover Conspiracy - Proof?

Post by poserboy71 »

How difficult is it to believe that Vinnie was there but they cut and pasted some photos together (using Vinnie's face on a few different pics) to get something they like ?
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Re: Lick It Up Cover Conspiracy - Proof?

Post by Grizzly Adams »

Just found this photo.
Vinnie's head looks like it is set at a strange angle compared to the body.
More mannequin proof?
Image

https://tonedeaf.thebrag.com/on-this-da ... irst-time/
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Re: Lick It Up Cover Conspiracy - Proof?

Post by Grizzly Adams »

Grizzly Adams wrote: Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:34 pm Just found this photo.
Vinnie's head looks like it is set at a strange angle compared to the body.
More mannequin proof?
Image

https://tonedeaf.thebrag.com/on-this-da ... irst-time/
Not to mention the prehistoric Photoshop job on Paul Stanley's left arm in this photo.
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Re: Lick It Up Cover Conspiracy - Proof?

Post by caligari »

In his book Paul said Vinnie wore the wig because his real hair was so wispy he looked like
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Re: Lick It Up Cover Conspiracy - Proof?

Post by BlairC42 »

Even Gene's body and coat are in the same posture could Gene had to be photoshopped in picture 1 & 2?

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Re: Lick It Up Cover Conspiracy - Proof?

Post by TheSphinx »

This is ridiculous. And I remember Vinnie selling alternate cover pics from that same photo session back in 1997 or so.
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Re: Lick It Up Cover Conspiracy - Proof

Post by jannep17 »

Tommyr wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2016 8:31 am
kissjrj wrote:In that pic of Mark St. John in the studio, he looks like a Bay City Roller.

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LOL! Nice!
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