Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

[nibbler1982]

I have no idea what you are talking about. The only thing I edited in that post was Invasion was the fastest selling DEBUT album. I put in debut.


Look how bad Asylum did. You didn't see it ship platinum. They spent more money on videos trying to push that album. That one got 3 and it still didn't sell well. And because Asylum did so poorly it went to the "two year plan" on Crazy Nights. The one thing that did help KISS during the time was they began to play up the nostalgia again. The makeup times were back thanks to eXposed being released prior to CN coming out. Crazy Nights can't be looked upon as any success at all. The tour was hemorrhaging money they couldn't even afford to keep paying a keyboard player to stay on tour with them. And they had to pay Ted Nugent decent bucks to help fill some seats.

So what came next? An album that is basically demos. One that had sold so poorly, Chrysalis did a survey during the HITS tour trying to figure out why people weren't buying KISS albums. Yes, "Forever" as a $1.50 cassingle sold well but it didn't move albums.


Other people have quoted it and you can see its the same in their quotes of my post. So what are you lying about?

I've also mocked people for using Billboard's top charting #'s and length as if it proves anything when ST&H was their biggest seller but you wouldn't know that from its chart history. It's sales shouldn't have come as any big surprise. Kiss was pushing the makeup past (since Exposed). It was a new Greatest Hits cd. Cd's had been taking off. It was a great time for people to get a Greatest Hits collection of KISS with old and newer songs like I Love It Loud, Lick It Up.

How long did it take Ace to get a record deal? If Eddie Trunk hadn't given him one would he have ever gotten one?
Ace was relying on Vinnie just like KISS. I mean Ace was playing "Back On The Streets". Then Ace had to rely on a Paul Stanley song. Pretty pathetic of him to record "Hide Your Heart". Ace's most known single from his comeback "Into The Night". One more song Ace didn't write just like his hit NY Groove. Then one of his singles was "Do Ya". A hit songwriting machine he was.

YOOOOOOOOOOOOOO MY BROTHER SPHINXIE!!!!!!!!

Where the hell you been my man?!?!?!?

Brah...it’s soooo good to see your name pop up on the boards. I couldn’t believe my eyes. I sincerely and genuinely hope all is well with you and yours. It’s so good to have you back.

Our donnybrooks are what legends are made of. The nice thing is the threads never got locked. Don’t get me wrong...those were some dogfights and we did sling a little mud here and there but we always kept a level of civility to it. Good times. Good times.

There’s a new guy on here who shall remain nameless that does remind me of you. He’s got your tenacity for sure...but none of your intelligence and style. He always has me thinking about the good ol’ days.

I tip my hat to the return of a most worthy opponent.

(Now back to our regularly scheduled program)

I don't swing that way but glad my tenacity reminds you of your Broke Back Mountain days with Sphinxy. Lol.

Who was talking about you and what does Broke Back Mountain have to do with this conversation?

Nibbs comments to Sphinxy - Brah...it’s soooo good to see your name pop up on the boards. I couldn’t believe my eyes.

Nibbs commenting about me. "There’s a new guy on here who shall remain nameless that does remind me of you. He’s got your tenacity for sure."

Nibbs continued about me - "He always has me thinking about the good ol’ days."

I'm flattered that you're always thinking about me. I am the new guy and the only one that has gone back and forth as much as we have over tickets sold vs gross receipts.

Geez...I hate to bust your bubble but the comment wasn’t about you.

Then who was the NEW guy? Tell us.

What don’t you understand about “who shall remain nameless”?

You made that rule so you can break it. Do you have a contract that states that you can't say who you're talking about?

I understand you were talking about me. You just didn't think I would call you out. Now you have a Oh, shit moment.

What's that line in an Elvis song...... Don't you know I'm caught in a trap, I can't walk out...

Of course I can break it. Although I made it for a reason and I choose not to.

I was talking to an old friend and welcoming him back.

No more. No less.

[PterCriss]

YOOOOOOOOOOOOOO MY BROTHER SPHINXIE!!!!!!!!

Where the hell you been my man?!?!?!?

Brah...it’s soooo good to see your name pop up on the boards. I couldn’t believe my eyes. I sincerely and genuinely hope all is well with you and yours. It’s so good to have you back.

Our donnybrooks are what legends are made of. The nice thing is the threads never got locked. Don’t get me wrong...those were some dogfights and we did sling a little mud here and there but we always kept a level of civility to it. Good times. Good times.

There’s a new guy on here who shall remain nameless that does remind me of you. He’s got your tenacity for sure...but none of your intelligence and style. He always has me thinking about the good ol’ days.

I tip my hat to the return of a most worthy opponent.

(Now back to our regularly scheduled program)

I don't swing that way but glad my tenacity reminds you of your Broke Back Mountain days with Sphinxy. Lol.

Who was talking about you and what does Broke Back Mountain have to do with this conversation?

Nibbs comments to Sphinxy - Brah...it’s soooo good to see your name pop up on the boards. I couldn’t believe my eyes.

Nibbs commenting about me. "There’s a new guy on here who shall remain nameless that does remind me of you. He’s got your tenacity for sure."

Nibbs continued about me - "He always has me thinking about the good ol’ days."

I'm flattered that you're always thinking about me. I am the new guy and the only one that has gone back and forth as much as we have over tickets sold vs gross receipts.

Geez...I hate to bust your bubble but the comment wasn’t about you.

Then who was the NEW guy? Tell us.

What don’t you understand about “who shall remain nameless”?

You made that rule so you can break it. Do you have a contract that states that you can't say who you're talking about?

I understand you were talking about me. You just didn't think I would call you out. Now you have a Oh, shit moment.

What's that line in an Elvis song...... Don't you know I'm caught in a trap, I can't walk out...

Of course I can break it. Although I made it for a reason and I choose not to.

I was talking to an old friend and welcoming him back.

No more. No less.

You just proved my point that you were talking about me.

Yes you talked to Sphinx and mentioned me. Why is it so hard to admit?

What's that line in an Elvis song...... Don't you know I'm caught in a trap, I can't walk out...

[PterCriss]

Now let's get back on track....

Nibbs did you even make a comment about the Original Thread? You know the one about Vinnie and Animalize?

I for one think Vinnie with Gene and Paul would have rounded out Animalize to be a better album then what was delivered.

[nibbler1982]

Now let's get back on track....

Nibbs did you even make a comment about the Original Thread? You know the one about Vinnie and Animalize?

I for one think Vinnie with Gene and Paul would have rounded out Animalize to be a better album then what was delivered.

Yes, I think Vinnie was great in KISS and for KISS.

[nibbler1982]

I don't swing that way but glad my tenacity reminds you of your Broke Back Mountain days with Sphinxy. Lol.

Who was talking about you and what does Broke Back Mountain have to do with this conversation?

Nibbs comments to Sphinxy - Brah...it’s soooo good to see your name pop up on the boards. I couldn’t believe my eyes.

Nibbs commenting about me. "There’s a new guy on here who shall remain nameless that does remind me of you. He’s got your tenacity for sure."

Nibbs continued about me - "He always has me thinking about the good ol’ days."

I'm flattered that you're always thinking about me. I am the new guy and the only one that has gone back and forth as much as we have over tickets sold vs gross receipts.

Geez...I hate to bust your bubble but the comment wasn’t about you.

Then who was the NEW guy? Tell us.

What don’t you understand about “who shall remain nameless”?

You made that rule so you can break it. Do you have a contract that states that you can't say who you're talking about?

I understand you were talking about me. You just didn't think I would call you out. Now you have a Oh, shit moment.

What's that line in an Elvis song...... Don't you know I'm caught in a trap, I can't walk out...

Of course I can break it. Although I made it for a reason and I choose not to.

I was talking to an old friend and welcoming him back.

No more. No less.

You just proved my point that you were talking about me.

Yes you talked to Sphinx and mentioned me. Why is it so hard to admit?

What's that line in an Elvis song...... Don't you know I'm caught in a trap, I can't walk out...

I proved nothing of the sort.

I said I wasn’t talking about you and you just refuse to accept it.

With that type of behavior you constantly end up with egg on your face.

To each their own.

[EggFlip]

The guitar tech pulled the plug on them half way through their set on vv's request. Vv also stopped la guns selling t shirts . Tracii was interviewed about it in 1988.

Totally wrong. All systems go was a massive flop. It sold nothing like what you say.

Vinnie kicked La guns off their tour as la guns were selling three times the shorts vvi were . Ended in a big fight at Harpo's in Detroit that Traci went to press about .

They attacked Vinnie's guitar tech.

[EggFlip]

No doubt anaimalze would have been better with Vinnie or at least the writing part. Less or no fillers for sure.

[Thunderous_Lay]

Totally wrong. All systems go was a massive flop. It sold nothing like what you say.

... that Chrysalis dropped Cusano and "gave" his contract to Slaughter and Strum, instead, is all the evidence one needs to establish both VVI records were flops through and through.

Everything else is just a figment of that guy's imagination.

[TheSphinx]

Vinnie was successful in KISS because of Gene and Paul.
Vinnie was successful in the Invasion because of Dana and Mark.

Gene and Paul, and Mark and Dana, have gone on to greater success without Vinnie. And they continue to.
Even Blas Elias played with the Blue Man Group for 17 years, and is now playing with Trans-Siberian Orchestra.

Meanwhile, Vinnie is playing to 15 fans in a darkened rehearsal studio under a veil of paranoia and secrecy.

Who saved who?

Oh man, those are major zingaroos! And I couldn't agree more with all of them!

Vinnie didn't save jack squat. Kiss taking off the makeup saved them. Vinnie was along for the ride. "Animalize" had a great lead single in "Heaven's on Fire" and a great video for it, and it was a perfect "Kiss in 1984" album. Bye bye Vinnie, you were not needed. When he has no one's talents to leech off of, yup, he's playing a closet or a phone booth. I mean, not playing, "appearing" and serving cheap-ass salads.

Vinnie isn't even fit to tie Tommy Thayer's Ace boots.

The infamous Vinnie Saved KISS post shot down all your nonsense. Taking off the makeup didn't save them.

I also guess that's why "Lick It Up" is the 8th most played KISS song his Kisstory 1,495. What's HOF at? Only 857.

Of course "I Love It Loud" is #7 on the most played live KISS songs of all time. Who wrote that?


And while Animalize shipped platinum how well did Asylum do?

[TheSphinx]

I know I checked out being a fan in the 80’s but why would Chrysalis have done a survey of why KISS albums weren’t selling? If I recall they never were on that label????

I had Chrysalis on the brain.

Even though I screwed up, you'd think everyone would know since its common knowledge about the survey Polygram did during the HITS tour. People were tired of all the ballads. They wanted a return to the hard rock KISS. They wanted more strong Gene songs.

And who did KISS have to bring back to get them that sound? hmmmm

And who wasn't cutting it on guitar ?

[Lofton23rdSt]

The guitar tech pulled the plug on them half way through their set on vv's request. Vv also stopped la guns selling t shirts . Tracii was interviewed about it in 1988.

Totally wrong. All systems go was a massive flop. It sold nothing like what you say.

Vinnie kicked La guns off their tour as la guns were selling three times the shorts vvi were . Ended in a big fight at Harpo's in Detroit that Traci went to press about .

They attacked Vinnie's guitar tech.

Bill Temple said in the podcast interview that they thought it was a co-headlining tour and kept moving their drumset back.

[TheSphinx]

Vinnie isn't even fit to tie Tommy Thayer's Ace boots.

Remind me of all the hit songs and gold/ platinum albums Tommy is responsible for.

He doesn't have any.

Eric didn't have any (either one).

Bruce didn't have any (and don't try and claim Jungle from Carnival of Shelved like it was some radio hit). It wouldn't have gotten any airplay at all if KISS hadn't of had the #1 tour of the year before it came out.

Peter-Beth one song in top 20 kiss most played live

Ace - one song just ahead of I Love It Loud in most played live. Cold Gin has played 48 X's more than I love It Loud but it did come out 9 years earlier so...

Vinnie has 2 of the most played KISS songs live of all time in the top 8.

Next to Gene and Paul -Vinnie is da man

[Heartofchrome]

I got a few questions.What would Animalize looked like if VV stayed. What songs off VV Invasion would have made it.I think it would have been huge. Pauls songs were great and he had the hit with "HOF" but if VV could have bolstered up Genes songs and also included some of his own it would have been killer. Anyone have a playlist of what could have been?

So what came next? An album that is basically demos. One that had sold so poorly, Chrysalis did a survey during the HITS tour trying to figure out why people weren't buying KISS albums. Yes, "Forever" as a $1.50 cassingle sold well but it didn't move albums.

Actually - every Kiss fan knows Crazy Nights followed Asylum not HITS like you so easy revised and inserted. We also know Vinnie lost his mind and went AWOL. So your timeline and comments should end when Vinnie went crazy.

Also you might want to include talking about Smashed Thrashes and Hits and how it sold 2 million pr 2.5 million and has Let's Put the X in Sex as a single. I don't think anyone has figured out how that album sold so much and it had nothing to do with Vinnie. By the time 1987 rolled around Vinnie was an after thought in Kiss. If anyone talked about anyone coming back it was always - when is Ace coming back, not Vinnie.

It sure had nothing to do with X In Sex or Rock Hard as both songs never charted (yeah i kmow X hit 97) either
Had nothing to do with Crazy Nights HITS Revenge or AIII
What sold that comp? KISS on MTV unplugged as it was the most recent comp at the time

[Heartofchrome]

There were 10 thousand record stores in the states In 1988 all getting at least one copy on tape , cd and vinyl so already 30 thousand copies before one sale will have been shipped aprox

Those 30 thousand copies were not considered sales and could make it to the cut out bin thanks to Kiss' solo albums debacle.

RIAA did not change the shipping rule until later, inrecall up until the early 2000s they had it set up like you just had to ship a million to get a platinum award said nothing about sales.

[Heartofchrome]

Vinnie isn't even fit to tie Tommy Thayer's Ace boots.

Remind me of all the hit songs and gold/ platinum albums Tommy is responsible for.

He doesn't have any.

Eric didn't have any (either one).

Bruce didn't have any (and don't try and claim Jungle from Carnival of Shelved like it was some radio hit). It wouldn't have gotten any airplay at all if KISS hadn't of had the #1 tour of the year before it came out.

Peter-Beth one song in top 20 kiss most played live

Ace - one song just ahead of I Love It Loud in most played live. Cold Gin has played 48 X's more than I love It Loud but it did come out 9 years earlier so...

Vinnie has 2 of the most played KISS songs live of all time in the top 8.

Next to Gene and Paul -Vinnie is da man

Well ok as both Eric and Bruce was in the band at the time of the albums in question

COTN (granted took til 94)
Lick It Up
Animalize
Asylum
Crazy Night
Smashs
Hot
Revenge

Seems like a good run of Plat and Gold albums

Youu can't give Vinnie cred for that then knock out the other band members as without Eric we would not have had that drum fill on COTN with out Bruce that solo on Tears never happened.

Back then Videos and airplay sold records if the video sucks chances of the song getting airplay was slim no airplay no sales.

Maybe just maybe had the vids for the Asylum era been better the album might have sold more.

[LordThurisaz]

The infamous Vinnie Saved KISS post shot down all your nonsense. Taking off the makeup didn't save them.

I also guess that's why "Lick It Up" is the 8th most played KISS song his Kisstory 1,495. What's HOF at? Only 857.

Of course "I Love It Loud" is #7 on the most played live KISS songs of all time. Who wrote that?


And while Animalize shipped platinum how well did Asylum do?

Yeah, sure. Taking off the music didn't save them. Nah, it was all some crazy nut job who can't even work as a songwriter, which is supposedly his main strong suit.

[kissthat]

As usual , Sphinxie's fan fiction has VV with a bigger career than actual facts do.

Let's see, when they wanted to boost sales of Creatures AFTER Animalize went Platinum, did they add VV to the cover or did they remove they make up from the cover?





Back to the op, people keep making the assumption that there would have also been the Desmond Child songs if VV had signed his contract ?

[LordThurisaz]

As usual , Sphinxie's fan fiction has VV with a bigger career than actual facts do.

Let's see, when they wanted to boost sales of Creatures AFTER Animalize went Platinum, did they add VV to the cover or did they remove they make up from the cover?





Back to the op, people keep making the assumption that there would have also been the Desmond Child songs if VV had signed his contract ?

The Desmond Child songs would've still happened because, well golly gee, lookie there: He's had a bigger career as a songwriter than Vinnie. Compared to his peers, ie other songwriters of the 80s and other shred guitarists, Vinnie comes up more than a bit short. Hence why his albums barely sold.

[kissthat]

As usual , Sphinxie's fan fiction has VV with a bigger career than actual facts do.

Let's see, when they wanted to boost sales of Creatures AFTER Animalize went Platinum, did they add VV to the cover or did they remove they make up from the cover?





Back to the op, people keep making the assumption that there would have also been the Desmond Child songs if VV had signed his contract ?

The Desmond Child songs would've still happened because, well golly gee, lookie there: He's had a bigger career as a songwriter than Vinnie. Compared to his peers, ie other songwriters of the 80s and other shred guitarists, Vinnie comes up more than a bit short. Hence why his albums barely sold.

I wasn't even questioning who was the biggest songwriter. Desmond bt a mile. Just wondering "when" Paul decided to write with him again,before or after VV getting gone.

[Shandi Man]

I'm not much of a Vinnie Vincent Invasion fan, I don't have those albums and don't have much interest in Vinnie outside of Kiss BUT I do like LIU alot which Vinnie was a big part of.

For me personally Animalize is by far the worst Kiss album ever released. Worse than PC ,SB and Monster. It would have greatly benefited from Vinnie's input IMO but whether that would have been enough to salvage it is another story.

[PterCriss]

There were 10 thousand record stores in the states In 1988 all getting at least one copy on tape , cd and vinyl so already 30 thousand copies before one sale will have been shipped aprox

Those 30 thousand copies were not considered sales and could make it to the cut out bin thanks to Kiss' solo albums debacle.

RIAA did not change the shipping rule until later, inrecall up until the early 2000s they had it set up like you just had to ship a million to get a platinum award said nothing about sales.

I thought the shipping a million credit was taken away because of the solo albums? They shipped 4 million but no platinum awards.

[PterCriss]

I got a few questions.What would Animalize looked like if VV stayed. What songs off VV Invasion would have made it.I think it would have been huge. Pauls songs were great and he had the hit with "HOF" but if VV could have bolstered up Genes songs and also included some of his own it would have been killer. Anyone have a playlist of what could have been?

So what came next? An album that is basically demos. One that had sold so poorly, Chrysalis did a survey during the HITS tour trying to figure out why people weren't buying KISS albums. Yes, "Forever" as a $1.50 cassingle sold well but it didn't move albums.

Actually - every Kiss fan knows Crazy Nights followed Asylum not HITS like you so easy revised and inserted. We also know Vinnie lost his mind and went AWOL. So your timeline and comments should end when Vinnie went crazy.

Also you might want to include talking about Smashed Thrashes and Hits and how it sold 2 million pr 2.5 million and has Let's Put the X in Sex as a single. I don't think anyone has figured out how that album sold so much and it had nothing to do with Vinnie. By the time 1987 rolled around Vinnie was an after thought in Kiss. If anyone talked about anyone coming back it was always - when is Ace coming back, not Vinnie.

It sure had nothing to do with X In Sex or Rock Hard as both songs never charted (yeah i kmow X hit 97) either
Had nothing to do with Crazy Nights HITS Revenge or AIII
What sold that comp? KISS on MTV unplugged as it was the most recent comp at the time

No Smashed Thrashes and Hits sold it's numbers before MTV Unplugged? Was that a guess by you?

You couldn't find Smashed Thrashes and Hits when MTV Unplugged came out and Smashed Thrashes and Hits wasn't the comp you would be looking for.

[Heartofchrome]

There were 10 thousand record stores in the states In 1988 all getting at least one copy on tape , cd and vinyl so already 30 thousand copies before one sale will have been shipped aprox

Those 30 thousand copies were not considered sales and could make it to the cut out bin thanks to Kiss' solo albums debacle.

RIAA did not change the shipping rule until later, inrecall up until the early 2000s they had it set up like you just had to ship a million to get a platinum award said nothing about sales.

I thought the shipping a million credit was taken away because of the solo albums? They shipped 4 million but no platinum awards.

I could be wrong but i swear up to early 2000s it was shipments

[Heartofchrome]

I got a few questions.What would Animalize looked like if VV stayed. What songs off VV Invasion would have made it.I think it would have been huge. Pauls songs were great and he had the hit with "HOF" but if VV could have bolstered up Genes songs and also included some of his own it would have been killer. Anyone have a playlist of what could have been?

So what came next? An album that is basically demos. One that had sold so poorly, Chrysalis did a survey during the HITS tour trying to figure out why people weren't buying KISS albums. Yes, "Forever" as a $1.50 cassingle sold well but it didn't move albums.

Actually - every Kiss fan knows Crazy Nights followed Asylum not HITS like you so easy revised and inserted. We also know Vinnie lost his mind and went AWOL. So your timeline and comments should end when Vinnie went crazy.

Also you might want to include talking about Smashed Thrashes and Hits and how it sold 2 million pr 2.5 million and has Let's Put the X in Sex as a single. I don't think anyone has figured out how that album sold so much and it had nothing to do with Vinnie. By the time 1987 rolled around Vinnie was an after thought in Kiss. If anyone talked about anyone coming back it was always - when is Ace coming back, not Vinnie.

It sure had nothing to do with X In Sex or Rock Hard as both songs never charted (yeah i kmow X hit 97) either
Had nothing to do with Crazy Nights HITS Revenge or AIII
What sold that comp? KISS on MTV unplugged as it was the most recent comp at the time

No Smashed Thrashes and Hits sold it's numbers before MTV Unplugged? Was that a guess by you?

You couldn't find Smashed Thrashes and Hits when MTV Unplugged came out and Smashed Thrashes and Hits wasn't the comp you would be looking for.

Nope not what i read

Its a horrid collection by any means

[Rip Rokken]

It would have been one of the greatest albums of all time.

[justcoz]

Look who's back , nice to see you pop in Sphinxie.

Thanks. I'm going to pop back out now but I couldn't resist this one.

All Hail The Egyptian Warrior!

AWESOME CAMEO!!!!!!

[Rip Rokken]

I don't swing that way but glad my tenacity reminds you of your Broke Back Mountain days with Sphinxy. Lol.

Who was talking about you and what does Broke Back Mountain have to do with this conversation?

Nibbs comments to Sphinxy - Brah...it’s soooo good to see your name pop up on the boards. I couldn’t believe my eyes.

Nibbs commenting about me. "There’s a new guy on here who shall remain nameless that does remind me of you. He’s got your tenacity for sure."

Nibbs continued about me - "He always has me thinking about the good ol’ days."

I'm flattered that you're always thinking about me. I am the new guy and the only one that has gone back and forth as much as we have over tickets sold vs gross receipts.

Geez...I hate to bust your bubble but the comment wasn’t about you.

Then who was the NEW guy? Tell us.

What don’t you understand about “who shall remain nameless”?

You made that rule so you can break it. Do you have a contract that states that you can't say who you're talking about?

I understand you were talking about me. You just didn't think I would call you out. Now you have a Oh, shit moment.

What's that line in an Elvis song...... Don't you know I'm caught in a trap, I can't walk out...

Of course I can break it. Although I made it for a reason and I choose not to.

I was talking to an old friend and welcoming him back.

No more. No less.

You just proved my point that you were talking about me.

Yes you talked to Sphinx and mentioned me. Why is it so hard to admit?

What's that line in an Elvis song...... Don't you know I'm caught in a trap, I can't walk out...

He was probably talking about me. And good GOD was that a painful read on an iPhone.

[70skid]

It would have been one of the greatest albums of all time.

Ahhh....no.

[PterCriss]

Who was talking about you and what does Broke Back Mountain have to do with this conversation?

Nibbs comments to Sphinxy - Brah...it’s soooo good to see your name pop up on the boards. I couldn’t believe my eyes.

Nibbs commenting about me. "There’s a new guy on here who shall remain nameless that does remind me of you. He’s got your tenacity for sure."

Nibbs continued about me - "He always has me thinking about the good ol’ days."

I'm flattered that you're always thinking about me. I am the new guy and the only one that has gone back and forth as much as we have over tickets sold vs gross receipts.

Geez...I hate to bust your bubble but the comment wasn’t about you.

Then who was the NEW guy? Tell us.

What don’t you understand about “who shall remain nameless”?

You made that rule so you can break it. Do you have a contract that states that you can't say who you're talking about?

I understand you were talking about me. You just didn't think I would call you out. Now you have a Oh, shit moment.

What's that line in an Elvis song...... Don't you know I'm caught in a trap, I can't walk out...

Of course I can break it. Although I made it for a reason and I choose not to.

I was talking to an old friend and welcoming him back.

No more. No less.

You just proved my point that you were talking about me.

Yes you talked to Sphinx and mentioned me. Why is it so hard to admit?

What's that line in an Elvis song...... Don't you know I'm caught in a trap, I can't walk out...

He was probably talking about me. And good GOD was that a painful read on an iPhone.

Yeah because you post like Sphynx and have had word fights with Nibbs.

[PterCriss]

I got a few questions.What would Animalize looked like if VV stayed. What songs off VV Invasion would have made it.I think it would have been huge. Pauls songs were great and he had the hit with "HOF" but if VV could have bolstered up Genes songs and also included some of his own it would have been killer. Anyone have a playlist of what could have been?

So what came next? An album that is basically demos. One that had sold so poorly, Chrysalis did a survey during the HITS tour trying to figure out why people weren't buying KISS albums. Yes, "Forever" as a $1.50 cassingle sold well but it didn't move albums.

Actually - every Kiss fan knows Crazy Nights followed Asylum not HITS like you so easy revised and inserted. We also know Vinnie lost his mind and went AWOL. So your timeline and comments should end when Vinnie went crazy.

Also you might want to include talking about Smashed Thrashes and Hits and how it sold 2 million pr 2.5 million and has Let's Put the X in Sex as a single. I don't think anyone has figured out how that album sold so much and it had nothing to do with Vinnie. By the time 1987 rolled around Vinnie was an after thought in Kiss. If anyone talked about anyone coming back it was always - when is Ace coming back, not Vinnie.

It sure had nothing to do with X In Sex or Rock Hard as both songs never charted (yeah i kmow X hit 97) either
Had nothing to do with Crazy Nights HITS Revenge or AIII
What sold that comp? KISS on MTV unplugged as it was the most recent comp at the time

No Smashed Thrashes and Hits sold it's numbers before MTV Unplugged? Was that a guess by you?

You couldn't find Smashed Thrashes and Hits when MTV Unplugged came out and Smashed Thrashes and Hits wasn't the comp you would be looking for.

Nope not what i read

Its a horrid collection by any means

Please post a link.

[TheSphinx]

I wasn't even questioning who was the biggest songwriter. Desmond bt a mile. Just wondering "when" Paul decided to write with him again,before or after VV getting gone.

I doubt Desmond would have been called on to write for Animalize if Vinnie had stayed. And his contributions wouldn't have been missed.

Lets not act like Desmond Child was great for KISS. He has songwriting credits on more Kiss albums than Vinnie but weren't his contributions more important. NO

Vinnie brought far more to Kiss in the songwriting department than Desmond did.

Desmond had songs on lets Dynasty, Animalize, Asylum, Crazy Nights and Hits.

Vinnie- COTN, LIU & Revenge.

How many songs of Vinnie's appear on ALIVE III? 5

How many Desmond songs on Alive III? 2

Vinnie has two songs in the top 8 of Kiss songs played Live.

Desmond doesn't have any songs in the top 15 of most KISS songs played live.



Would Animalize have suffered without I've Had Enough, Heavens On Fire and Under The Gun? Not really.

What about his gems on Asylum? King Of The Mountain, Who Wants To Be Lonely, Loves A Deadly Weapon, Radar For Love, UH All Night.

Asylum is considered one of the WORST Kiss 80's albums. Only went gold. And its failure resulted in the "2 year plan". So on the album Desmond had the most credits you've got one of the biggest slammed KISS albums.


Crazy Nights: What would Kiss have done without a gem like Bang Bang You? Reason To Live was alright but it wasn't what KISS fans were wanting.


Hot In The Shade. We got Hide Your Heart and the concert staple You Love Me To Hate You.
And we also got the "survey" that people were sick of these Paul wimpy songs and wanted more demon Gene songs.


So while Desmond was having huge success with Bon Jovi, Aerosmith and other bands it wasn't working out the same with KISS. And while I Was Made was a big hit, one could argue that it also helped put KISS in the ground.



But all we have to do is compare Lick It Up (album) with Vinnie VS Desmonds most contributions on a KISS album Asylum. Case closed. Winner Vincent by a mile.

[TheSphinx]

I could be wrong but i swear up to early 2000s it was shipments

It is still based on shipments.

Two huge failures happened in the 70's that made the RIAA change things.

The tremendous failure of Sgt Peppers soundtrack - which resulted in returns of 3 or 4M and the failure of the KISS solo albums.

In the early 80's they made a change and put in the 90 day rule.

Around 1988 or so it was changed to "60 days".

Later it was changed to "30 days".


What's funny is how Garth Brooks did just what KISS did with the solo albums. When Garth did that stupid alter ego Chris Gaines nonsense, Capitol shipped 3M copies of it. It sold horribly. Capitol was doing everything they could...offering incentives etc....so retailers wouldn't return the albums until after the they got past the "return window" for certification. It did work some. Garth got his certification for Gold, Platinum & Double Platinum all on the same day. Enough got returned even with all the incentives etc Capitol was offering, it didn't get Triple Platinum, but they did get to save some face. If they hadn't of done it it probably would have been Shipped Triple Platinum, certified Gold.


Also people keep acting like when an album reaches some sales milestone its automatically certified. Doesn't happen that way.

And how many threads about Kiss albums and them being at wrong sales levels?

Does anyone really think KISS biggest selling album - Destroyer sold the same number of copies as "Stick It To Ya"?


Lick It Up was said to be at 1M copies in the states before Animalize came out. But how long till it got "certified"?
And Animalize Shipped Platinum. 90 Day Rule was in place so it didn't get certified for 90 days after release. But why does anyone think the record company was shipping so many copies? Because KISS was back.

[Heartofchrome]

I got a few questions.What would Animalize looked like if VV stayed. What songs off VV Invasion would have made it.I think it would have been huge. Pauls songs were great and he had the hit with "HOF" but if VV could have bolstered up Genes songs and also included some of his own it would have been killer. Anyone have a playlist of what could have been?

So what came next? An album that is basically demos. One that had sold so poorly, Chrysalis did a survey during the HITS tour trying to figure out why people weren't buying KISS albums. Yes, "Forever" as a $1.50 cassingle sold well but it didn't move albums.

Actually - every Kiss fan knows Crazy Nights followed Asylum not HITS like you so easy revised and inserted. We also know Vinnie lost his mind and went AWOL. So your timeline and comments should end when Vinnie went crazy.

Also you might want to include talking about Smashed Thrashes and Hits and how it sold 2 million pr 2.5 million and has Let's Put the X in Sex as a single. I don't think anyone has figured out how that album sold so much and it had nothing to do with Vinnie. By the time 1987 rolled around Vinnie was an after thought in Kiss. If anyone talked about anyone coming back it was always - when is Ace coming back, not Vinnie.

It sure had nothing to do with X In Sex or Rock Hard as both songs never charted (yeah i kmow X hit 97) either
Had nothing to do with Crazy Nights HITS Revenge or AIII
What sold that comp? KISS on MTV unplugged as it was the most recent comp at the time

No Smashed Thrashes and Hits sold it's numbers before MTV Unplugged? Was that a guess by you?

You couldn't find Smashed Thrashes and Hits when MTV Unplugged came out and Smashed Thrashes and Hits wasn't the comp you would be looking for.

Nope not what i read

Its a horrid collection by any means

Please post a link.

Dude was so long ago on thos board.actually

[TheSphinx]

As usual , Sphinxie's fan fiction has VV with a bigger career than actual facts do.

Let's see, when they wanted to boost sales of Creatures AFTER Animalize went Platinum, did they add VV to the cover or did they remove they make up from the cover?

That's funny. Do you really think Paul's ego would have allowed that to happen? Paul got tired of hearing "Lick It Up" is the best KISS album ever. Vinnie saved KISS etc. There's no way Paul's ego could have taken that.

Heck, just go back to them not wanting Vinnie to have his own VV Jackson guitar.

But lets take what you said there.... why do you think the HITS ALBUM/ TOUR had the EGYPTIAN THEME? And why do you think they had already contacted Mark/Dana to be their opening act before "Stick It To Ya" was even released. hmmmmm Coincidence??

Also, wasn't 1985 or so when the re-release came out about the same time as Vinnie started having to say "The white faced band" etc.

Poor Paul and his ego.

[Tito]

why do you think the HITS ALBUM/ TOUR had the EGYPTIAN THEME?

What point are you possibly trying to make with that? You do know Paul Stanley came up with the "Egyptian Wizard" character, right?

[LordThurisaz]

why do you think the HITS ALBUM/ TOUR had the EGYPTIAN THEME?

What point are you possibly trying to make with that? You do know Paul Stanley came up with the "Egyptian Wizard" character, right?

Its all a vast satanic illuminati conspiracy, man.

[TheSphinx]

why do you think the HITS ALBUM/ TOUR had the EGYPTIAN THEME?

What point are you possibly trying to make with that? You do know Paul Stanley came up with the "Egyptian Wizard" character, right?

Is it a coincidence they went with the Egyptian theme and had Slaughter open for them? Think about it.
Maybe they were trying to subliminally use Vinnie and the great success he had to help them.


It is funny that on many nights Slaughter was selling close to what KISS were in merch. Those former VVI guys sure put alot of butts in seats on that tour. That's for sure.

[douglasroads]

You’ve crossed the line with your last few posts Sphinx. You are now revealed to be either:
completely off your head, a delusional fanboy with a three roll tin foil hat

or

VV himself. No one else could be that far gone to build this complex level of multi layered lunacy

or

a parody account that has over reached itself

Which is rather a shame as there seemed to be some warmth here for you when you re emerged. Something is very definitely odd / unhealthy in VV world right now.

[TheSphinx]

I was certainly joking about the HITS tour. It is a hilarious coincidence.

But it is true Slaughter was selling the merch I mentioned.

[PterCriss]

I was certainly joking about the HITS tour. It is a hilarious coincidence.

But it is true Slaughter was selling the merch I mentioned.

Haha. You look like Michael Jackson walking that one back. You actually weren't joking you just know everyone would call you out. Kiss had moved and sailed past Crazy Vinnie with the HITS tour. So much so they felt sorry for Vinnie and used him on the Revenge sessions.

[Rip Rokken]

I was certainly joking about the HITS tour. It is a hilarious coincidence.

But it is true Slaughter was selling the merch I mentioned.

They love playing “Pin The Tail on VINNIE VINCENT” around here. It’s another symptom of VVDS. Have you heard of it?

[AllCanadianMan]

I was certainly joking about the HITS tour. It is a hilarious coincidence.

But it is true Slaughter was selling the merch I mentioned.

They love playing “Pin The Tail on VINNIE VINCENT” around here. It’s another symptom of VVDS. Have you heard of it?

Vinnie Vincent Dip Shit????

[Tito]

why do you think the HITS ALBUM/ TOUR had the EGYPTIAN THEME?

What point are you possibly trying to make with that? You do know Paul Stanley came up with the "Egyptian Wizard" character, right?

Is it a coincidence they went with the Egyptian theme and had Slaughter open for them? Think about it.
Maybe they were trying to subliminally use Vinnie and the great success he had to help them.

Suuure. Take it easy, now.

It is funny that on many nights Slaughter was selling close to what KISS were in merch. Those former VVI guys sure put alot of butts in seats on that tour. That's for sure.

Nothing weird about that. People liked the band. It's been shown many times KISS used to have a knack for picking good opening bands. Surely you're not trying to somehow credit VV for this "coincidence" too? Wait, of course you are.

[sneed78]

I was certainly joking about the HITS tour. It is a hilarious coincidence.

But it is true Slaughter was selling the merch I mentioned.

They love playing “Pin The Tail on VINNIE VINCENT” around here. It’s another symptom of VVDS. Have you heard of it?

Cmon Rip, I’m a fan of Vinnie and what he did with Kiss and his solo stuff just as much as the next guy, but you don’t constantly have to comment on every post hoping you won’t lose your good standing with VV himself... these aren’t threads discussing the merits of what Rip Rokken has or hasn’t done after all.

No offense, but I’m fairly sure V still likes you man...

[Rip Rokken]

I was certainly joking about the HITS tour. It is a hilarious coincidence.

But it is true Slaughter was selling the merch I mentioned.

They love playing “Pin The Tail on VINNIE VINCENT” around here. It’s another symptom of VVDS. Have you heard of it?

Cmon Rip, I’m a fan of Vinnie and what he did with Kiss and his solo stuff just as much as the next guy, but you don’t constantly have to comment on every post hoping you won’t lose your good standing with VV himself... these aren’t threads discussing the merits of what Rip Rokken has or hasn’t done after all.

No offense, but I’m fairly sure V still likes you man...

Lol... not trying to impress anyone. People keep dropping my name in these threads. I keep joining in. It’s the circle of thread life.

[redinthesky]

I was certainly joking about the HITS tour. It is a hilarious coincidence.

But it is true Slaughter was selling the merch I mentioned.

They love playing “Pin The Tail on VINNIE VINCENT” around here. It’s another symptom of VVDS. Have you heard of it?

Cmon Rip, I’m a fan of Vinnie and what he did with Kiss and his solo stuff just as much as the next guy, but you don’t constantly have to comment on every post hoping you won’t lose your good standing with VV himself... these aren’t threads discussing the merits of what Rip Rokken has or hasn’t done after all.

No offense, but I’m fairly sure V still likes you man...

Vinnie likes anyone who kisses his talentless ass, like Shit Rotten has been doing here non-stop to great hilarity.

[redfield]

I was certainly joking about the HITS tour. It is a hilarious coincidence.

But it is true Slaughter was selling the merch I mentioned.

They love playing “Pin The Tail on VINNIE VINCENT” around here. It’s another symptom of VVDS. Have you heard of it?

Cmon Rip, I’m a fan of Vinnie and what he did with Kiss and his solo stuff just as much as the next guy, but you don’t constantly have to comment on every post hoping you won’t lose your good standing with VV himself... these aren’t threads discussing the merits of what Rip Rokken has or hasn’t done after all.

No offense, but I’m fairly sure V still likes you man...

Vinnie likes anyone who kisses his talentless ass, like Shit Rotten has been doing here non-stop to great hilarity.

Red, Youre free to sling all kinds of insults towards Vinnie if it makes you feel better but keep in mind, once you go overboard with edgy remarks ala 'talentless' , your entire point will be devaluated as some hyperbolic rant by most sane ppl around here

[douglasroads]

When someone has completely and utterly squandered the undoubted talents they once had then it might be fair to say that they are, presently, talentless?

[Rip Rokken]

Vinnie likes anyone who kisses his talentless ass, like Shit Rotten has been doing here non-stop to great hilarity.

Red, Youre free to sling all kinds of insults towards Vinnie if it makes you feel better but keep in mind, once you go overboard with edgy remarks ala 'talentless' , your entire point will be devaluated as some hyperbolic rant by most sane ppl around here

AGREED. Well stated.

[Rip Rokken]

When someone has completely and utterly squandered the undoubted talents they once had then it might be fair to say that they are, presently, talentless?

Absolutely NOT. First, you present a false dichotomy by leaving out other viable conclusions. Second, your conclusion is based on your personal inferrence that his talent has been “wasted”, which isn’t authoritative by any means.

“Yeah, well... That’s just, like, your opinion, man.”

Just because Vinnie has chosen differently that you prescribe for him, doesn’t mean he’s wasted anything. And having witnessed his abilities recently, I can safely draw the personal conclusion that he is BEYOND talented.