Really interesting question I haven’t heard before. Loved your post — very informative. Yes, LICK IT UP was a very strong album. I haven’t listened to ANIMALIZE in years.TheSphinx wrote: ↑Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:14 amIt would have been huge! "Animalize" basically shipped platinum due to the strength of "Lick It Up". Of course there was the 90 day window in place at the time. And it was certified Platinum on Dec 3, 1984 & released Sept 1, 1984.Red_Walrus wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:55 amI got a few questions.What would Animalize looked like if VV stayed. What songs off VV Invasion would have made it.I think it would have been huge. Pauls songs were great and he had the hit with "HOF" but if VV could have bolstered up Genes songs and also included some of his own it would have been killer. Anyone have a playlist of what could have been?
"Lick It Up" was already past 1M in sales before "Animalize" came out. It's sad to be past 2M in sales.Lick It Up is far more beloved. It ranks in most Top 10 best Kiss albums of all time. Usually ranks as the best or 2nd best Kiss album from 1980-Forward (with it switching places with COTN) which is basically another Vinnie album.
Had Vinnie been around for that album and tour it is what they would have needed for them to be back on top.
I think without a doubt, they would have dropped most of the "classic songs" and they would have been playing mainly material from COTN, LICK IT UP and the new album. They wouldn't have had to rely on the past. Metal-N-Roll would have been here to stay.6 songs from "Lick It Up" were played during at least 44 of the shows on that tour. "All Hells Breaking Loose" 54. Exciter 44. Lick It Up, Young and Wasted, Gimme More, Fits Like a Glove all over 90 times.Also 4 songs from COTN were part of the regular set list: I Love It Loud, Creatures, War Machine, I Still Love You.They could have easily kept those 10 songs for the set list of Animalize and added 4-5 more from Animalize and just done "Rock & Roll Alnight" and maybe 1 other "classic Kiss" song. They could have also switched out "A Million To One" for "I Still Love You" and it would have gone over huge.
Animalize was a mediocre album with only one really strong song. Heavens On Fire. And HOF is still no "Lick It Up". Everyone knows Lick It Up. You look at how many times Kiss has been on late night, American Idol, you name it and usually "Lick It Up" is one of the songs they play.
And why did Asylum fail to ship platinum? Because Animalize wasn't very strong. Most albums are sold initially based on the one before it. There can be other factors but . .That's why reason Vinnie Vincent Invasion sold so well. Why it was the fastest selling album in the history of Chrysalis. And it only had one single/video to prmote it. Yet, by the time of "All Systems Go" release it was right around 500,000.
And the strength of "Invasion" of course led to far more publicity, bigger ad bugets etc. That's why "All Systems Go" was already at 500,000 units with 2 1/2 months. Of course, All Systems Go probably could have done 2-3X platinum had it not been for alot of the ineptitude at Chrysalis. If the album had come out when it was originally supposed to, Vinnie Vincent Invasion would have had the opening slot on the Aerosmith Permanent Vacation tour.
Also, Chrysalis management was so incompetent back then they thought it was too expensive to put out two different versions of the same album. They could have easily released a "Full Shredd" version of "All Systems Go" and a more radio friendly version. Which would have sold incredibly well and most Kiss/Vinnie fans would have picked up both versions. They could have kept Vinnie happy and also had more mainstream success. But not doing that. Getting Dana & Mark to go behind Vinnie's back and remix more "radio friendly" versions was not the thing to do.
And people go well, Vinnie didn't "officially" get RIAA awards. Or they bring up nonsense like where it placed highest on Billboard like that meant anything. Like Billboard figures were based on reality. All you've got to do is look at Smashes, Trashes & Hits to see how short it was on the charts etc but yet. And of course whether you had a video or a new single, tour all played a factor.People bring up Slaughter and their success.
Of course SITY was basically the third VVI release. Same record company. You name it. Mark & Dana from VVI. They had the entire Vinnie Vincent fan club list etc. All those street teamers were basically VVI fans. Why do you think Up All Night was on Dial MTV from Day 1 and stayed there. Slaughter had already been offered the opening tour slot on the "Hot In The Shade" tour before their album was even released. Why do you think Kiss did that?
Both VVI albums are said to be around 1M copies each. Which wouldn't be surprising with Stick It To Ya being close to 3M. Of course we will hear but soundscan doesn't have it doing such and such. People act like soundscan of today was the same as it was back in the early 90's when it didn't count sames from some of the largest places. Soundscan didn't count record club sales at all. And of course, alot of people got those Vinnie albums on CD during that time period.
Look how bad Asylum did. You didn't see it ship platinum. They spent more money on videos trying to push that album. That one got 3 and it still didn't sell well. And because Asylum did so poorly it went to the "two year plan" on Crazy Nights. The one thing that did help KISS during the time was they began to play up the nostalgia again. The makeup times were back thanks to eXposed being released prior to CN coming out. Crazy Nights can't be looked upon as any success at all. The tour was hemorrhaging money they couldn't even afford to keep paying a keyboard player to stay on tour with them. And they had to pay Ted Nugent decent bucks to help fill some seats.
So what came next? An album that is basically demos. One that had sold so poorly, Chrysalis did a survey during the HITS tour trying to figure out why people weren't buying KISS albums. Yes, "Forever" as a $1.50 cassingle sold well but it didn't move albums.
What was KISS left with? Going back to Vinnie. Revenge is around 1M in sales. Even if you go by the soundscan figures (which missed a ton of sales on its initial release and doesnt' account for record club sales), Revenge is still the best KISS selling album from 1989 forward. It's timing of course was hurt by grunge. The delay of the Revenge tour also hurt it subtantially. Using Faster Pussycat and some of the other opening acts on that tour certainly didn't help things. And there was no Slaughter or Winger to help put a ton of butts in the seats like KISS had on the HITS tour.
Revenge could have been substantially better if they had used more Vinnie songs on it. But at least Vinnie got KISS BACK on track just like he did with COTN. KISS' direction prior to Vinnie was not good (as evidenced by the early COTN sessions which wound up on "Killers"). And Bruce Kulick got set down because his playing wasn't up to snuff.
If anyone is honest, they will admit the 3 best KISS albums from 1977-on are COTN, LICK IT UP and REVENGE.
KISS is lucky the reunion happened because "Carnival Of Grunge" would have put them to playing 1,000 seaters
Whatever you want to say about Vinnie and his output since All Systems Go, the fact is undeniable that he was by far the 3rd most important songwriter to KISS (Behind Gene and Paul). That Metal-N-Roll put KISS back on top after KISS had buried themselves 3 feet under.
Maybe Vinnie can't save himself, but he sure saved KISS.
It's a shame Paul's ego was too huge and they were too cheap to pay Vinnie accordingly. They really cost themselves a ton of money they could have had from 1984 up to at least the mid 90's. They'd probably still own their publishing and wouldn't have had to sell that off just to keep afloat.
Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?
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Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?
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Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?
Vinnie didn't save KISS, he may have helped keep their heads above water for a short period though. KISS has never been overly successful without Ace and Peter, with the exception of the 2019 Lip-sync tour. Everything else was on the fringe at best.
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Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?
Vinnie was successful in KISS because of Gene and Paul.
Vinnie was successful in the Invasion because of Dana and Mark.
Gene and Paul, and Mark and Dana, have gone on to greater success without Vinnie. And they continue to.
Even Blas Elias played with the Blue Man Group for 17 years, and is now playing with Trans-Siberian Orchestra.
Meanwhile, Vinnie is playing to 15 fans in a darkened rehearsal studio under a veil of paranoia and secrecy.
Who saved who?
Vinnie was successful in the Invasion because of Dana and Mark.
Gene and Paul, and Mark and Dana, have gone on to greater success without Vinnie. And they continue to.
Even Blas Elias played with the Blue Man Group for 17 years, and is now playing with Trans-Siberian Orchestra.
Meanwhile, Vinnie is playing to 15 fans in a darkened rehearsal studio under a veil of paranoia and secrecy.
Who saved who?
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Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?
The Sphinx is in the hizzouse!!!
The absolute chap!
You’ve been missed. So good to read your input.
Stay awesome
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Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?
"Animalize" is one that I thought was 'good enough' when it came-out; although, not one I ever listen to anymore. I believe its more likely it would have been a better album (more enjoyable overall) had Vinnie been on it, but not that I'm a super huge fan of the guy to begin with.
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Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?
Animalize with Vinnie would have been the Destroyer, Rock n Roll Over and Love Gun of the 80's. It makes me pissed at Vinnie that he was a dork and got greedy. Creatures of the Night, Lick It Up and Animalize with Vinnie would have been epic.
Albums go together and have for the 1-3, 6,7,8, and could have been with 12,13,14. This was also a mistake from Gene and Paul not keeping Vinnie on board longer. It was also the right time in Metal / Hard Rock / Hair Metal in 1985, for Kiss to make a further push to the top.
Albums go together and have for the 1-3, 6,7,8, and could have been with 12,13,14. This was also a mistake from Gene and Paul not keeping Vinnie on board longer. It was also the right time in Metal / Hard Rock / Hair Metal in 1985, for Kiss to make a further push to the top.
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Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?
Back on the Streets with Paul singing - without a doubt a major radio hit that never was.
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Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?
It would have been huge.
The stage was set by the Lick it Up comeback .....
If Animalize would've capitalized on that with Vinnie in tow the boyz would've been unstoppable setting the standard for the new era of Kiss big time. They would not have been fololowers but trend setters garnering a whole new legion of younger fans and catipulted themselves back up into the ranks with the big acts of the day (Priest, Leppard, Maiden etc.)
Instead, the one note success that Animalize was with Heaven's on Fire and the revolving door of guitarists delegated Kiss to the ranks of the almost but not quite there. Too bad.
In a 1996 interview Vinnie Vincent was quoted as saying that he had the following tunes demoed and ready to go for what turned out to be the Animalize record.
Boyz Are Gonna Rock, Shoot U Full of Love, Back on the Streets, Twisted, Animal
I Wanna Be Your Victim & Do You Wanna Make Love
Assuming that is true and that they would've all made the album what tunes do you think Gene would've sang and what tunes you you think Paul would've sang?
Running order (of course I could and probably will change my mind on this part on a daily basis...)
SIDE 1:
I've Had Enough (Into the Fire) (Paul vocals)
Heaven's On Fire (Paul vocals)
Twisted (Gene vocals)
Shoot U Full of Love(Paul vocals)
Lonely Is The Hunter (Gene vocals)
Under The Gun (Paul vocals)
SIDE 2:
Boyz Are Gonna Rock (Paul vocals)
Do You Wanna Make Love (Paul vocals)
Animal (Gene vocals)
Back On The Streets (Paul vocals)
Thrills In The Night (Paul vocals)
I Wanna Be Your Victim (Gene vocals)
The stage was set by the Lick it Up comeback .....
If Animalize would've capitalized on that with Vinnie in tow the boyz would've been unstoppable setting the standard for the new era of Kiss big time. They would not have been fololowers but trend setters garnering a whole new legion of younger fans and catipulted themselves back up into the ranks with the big acts of the day (Priest, Leppard, Maiden etc.)
Instead, the one note success that Animalize was with Heaven's on Fire and the revolving door of guitarists delegated Kiss to the ranks of the almost but not quite there. Too bad.
In a 1996 interview Vinnie Vincent was quoted as saying that he had the following tunes demoed and ready to go for what turned out to be the Animalize record.
Boyz Are Gonna Rock, Shoot U Full of Love, Back on the Streets, Twisted, Animal
I Wanna Be Your Victim & Do You Wanna Make Love
Assuming that is true and that they would've all made the album what tunes do you think Gene would've sang and what tunes you you think Paul would've sang?
Running order (of course I could and probably will change my mind on this part on a daily basis...)
SIDE 1:
I've Had Enough (Into the Fire) (Paul vocals)
Heaven's On Fire (Paul vocals)
Twisted (Gene vocals)
Shoot U Full of Love(Paul vocals)
Lonely Is The Hunter (Gene vocals)
Under The Gun (Paul vocals)
SIDE 2:
Boyz Are Gonna Rock (Paul vocals)
Do You Wanna Make Love (Paul vocals)
Animal (Gene vocals)
Back On The Streets (Paul vocals)
Thrills In The Night (Paul vocals)
I Wanna Be Your Victim (Gene vocals)
Last edited by strangeways747 on Wed Aug 21, 2019 5:20 pm, edited 8 times in total.
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Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?
I think it would have been awesome and yeah I imagine it would have been one of their best selling albums, although even without Vinnie Animalize ended up being their best selling studio album of the 80ies.Red_Walrus wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:55 am I got a few questions.
What would Animalize looked like if VV stayed. What songs off VV Invasion would have made it.
I think it would have been huge. Pauls songs were great and he had the hit with "HOF" but if VV could have bolstered up Genes songs and also included some of his own it would have been killer. Anyone have a playlist of what could have been?
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Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?
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Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?
Substitute not a kiss sounding tune. Thrills in the night better for the album. Back on the streets was recorded for creatures but I still don't think the lyrics are what kiss were looking for for animalize. Animal yes I think would have worked and maybe twisted. Invasion may have worked on animalize and I wanna be your victim . Would it have been better, yes!!
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Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?
Animaiize went platinum on the strength of lick it up,???.. Haha no, that would make sense if lick it up had done as well as animalize. Animalize did well on the strength of heavens on fire MTV and radio. It was totally down to one song. I was around and kiss were not getting fans because of lick it up in fact still at the time you wore a lick it up shirt and you got crushed by motley crue, priest, maiden fans at school. You may as well have worn a Barry manilow shirt and have had the same reaction.
TheSphinx wrote: ↑Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:18 amThunderous_Lay wrote: ↑Fri Aug 16, 2019 3:48 am... yeahhh, I'm sorry but I stopped reading there.Where's Drago? wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2019 3:57 pmMomentum.
Animalize already sold more than any other KISS album since Dynasty. But it was shit.
Animalize may be flawed but next to Lick It Up, it's a f*ckin' masterpiece. It's almost as if the band got its testicles reattached after Lick It Up's pussified sound.
Also, both Animalize and Asylum went platinum in North America, while Cusano literally went nowhere, and to make matters worse, Slaughter's debut actually went multi-platinum.
It feels as if, I dunno... Cusano drags everything and everyone around him.
This is what you call #FakeNews.
Animalize shipped platinum based on the strength of Lick It Up.
Asylum has never been certified platinum. It was a huge failure. And brought about the "2 year plan". I would imagine it is now past 1M in sales.
And yes, Slaughter sold well, but that was basically the 3rd VVI album for them. Why do you think it did so well? Why do you think they were offered the opening tour slot on the HITS tour before their album had even come out.
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Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?
A newspaper clipping was posted on here within the last year or so, and it stated that KISS was having trouble, still, selling tickets on the "Vinnie Saves KISS" tour. I love the Vinnie Vincent revisionist history around here; it's comical. It's about as made up as the stories in a Greek Mythology class.EggFlip wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2019 12:14 am Animaiize went platinum on the strength of lick it up,???.. Haha no, that would make sense if lick it up had done as well as animalize. Animalize did well on the strength of heavens on fire MTV and radio. It was totally down to one song. I was around and kiss were not getting fans because of lick it up in fact still at the time you wore a lick it up shirt and you got crushed by motley crue, priest, maiden fans at school. You may as well have worn a Barry manilow shirt and have had the same reaction.
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Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?
Vinnie's guitar playing was already sounding dated by the time Animalize came out, and he was a terrible fit for the band live. All of the fans I knew at the time hated his playing and said he ruined the LIU tour. If you listen to any recordings from that tour now, Vinnie's playing sounds absolutely ridiculous.
Overall I prefer Animalize to Lick It Up. Under The Gun, Thrills In The Night and Heaven's on Fire are way stronger than anything off LIU, and with Bruce onboard they had a much more tasteful and appropriate guitarist for the tour.
The Vinnie era is just a blip in Kisstory that a lot of us would rather forget.
Overall I prefer Animalize to Lick It Up. Under The Gun, Thrills In The Night and Heaven's on Fire are way stronger than anything off LIU, and with Bruce onboard they had a much more tasteful and appropriate guitarist for the tour.
The Vinnie era is just a blip in Kisstory that a lot of us would rather forget.
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Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?
Paul Stanley certainly pretends it never happened.
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Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?
Welcome back!TheSphinx wrote: ↑Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:14 amIt would have been huge! "Animalize" basically shipped platinum due to the strength of "Lick It Up". Of course there was the 90 day window in place at the time. And it was certified Platinum on Dec 3, 1984 & released Sept 1, 1984.Red_Walrus wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:55 amI got a few questions.What would Animalize looked like if VV stayed. What songs off VV Invasion would have made it.I think it would have been huge. Pauls songs were great and he had the hit with "HOF" but if VV could have bolstered up Genes songs and also included some of his own it would have been killer. Anyone have a playlist of what could have been?
"Lick It Up" was already past 1M in sales before "Animalize" came out. It's sad to be past 2M in sales.Lick It Up is far more beloved. It ranks in most Top 10 best Kiss albums of all time. Usually ranks as the best or 2nd best Kiss album from 1980-Forward (with it switching places with COTN) which is basically another Vinnie album.
Had Vinnie been around for that album and tour it is what they would have needed for them to be back on top.
I think without a doubt, they would have dropped most of the "classic songs" and they would have been playing mainly material from COTN, LICK IT UP and the new album. They wouldn't have had to rely on the past. Metal-N-Roll would have been here to stay.6 songs from "Lick It Up" were played during at least 44 of the shows on that tour. "All Hells Breaking Loose" 54. Exciter 44. Lick It Up, Young and Wasted, Gimme More, Fits Like a Glove all over 90 times.Also 4 songs from COTN were part of the regular set list: I Love It Loud, Creatures, War Machine, I Still Love You.They could have easily kept those 10 songs for the set list of Animalize and added 4-5 more from Animalize and just done "Rock & Roll Alnight" and maybe 1 other "classic Kiss" song. They could have also switched out "A Million To One" for "I Still Love You" and it would have gone over huge.
Animalize was a mediocre album with only one really strong song. Heavens On Fire. And HOF is still no "Lick It Up". Everyone knows Lick It Up. You look at how many times Kiss has been on late night, American Idol, you name it and usually "Lick It Up" is one of the songs they play.
And why did Asylum fail to ship platinum? Because Animalize wasn't very strong. Most albums are sold initially based on the one before it. There can be other factors but . .That's why reason Vinnie Vincent Invasion sold so well. Why it was the fastest selling album in the history of Chrysalis. And it only had one single/video to prmote it. Yet, by the time of "All Systems Go" release it was right around 500,000.
And the strength of "Invasion" of course led to far more publicity, bigger ad bugets etc. That's why "All Systems Go" was already at 500,000 units with 2 1/2 months. Of course, All Systems Go probably could have done 2-3X platinum had it not been for alot of the ineptitude at Chrysalis. If the album had come out when it was originally supposed to, Vinnie Vincent Invasion would have had the opening slot on the Aerosmith Permanent Vacation tour.
Also, Chrysalis management was so incompetent back then they thought it was too expensive to put out two different versions of the same album. They could have easily released a "Full Shredd" version of "All Systems Go" and a more radio friendly version. Which would have sold incredibly well and most Kiss/Vinnie fans would have picked up both versions. They could have kept Vinnie happy and also had more mainstream success. But not doing that. Getting Dana & Mark to go behind Vinnie's back and remix more "radio friendly" versions was not the thing to do.
And people go well, Vinnie didn't "officially" get RIAA awards. Or they bring up nonsense like where it placed highest on Billboard like that meant anything. Like Billboard figures were based on reality. All you've got to do is look at Smashes, Trashes & Hits to see how short it was on the charts etc but yet. And of course whether you had a video or a new single, tour all played a factor.People bring up Slaughter and their success.
Of course SITY was basically the third VVI release. Same record company. You name it. Mark & Dana from VVI. They had the entire Vinnie Vincent fan club list etc. All those street teamers were basically VVI fans. Why do you think Up All Night was on Dial MTV from Day 1 and stayed there. Slaughter had already been offered the opening tour slot on the "Hot In The Shade" tour before their album was even released. Why do you think Kiss did that?
Both VVI albums are said to be around 1M copies each. Which wouldn't be surprising with Stick It To Ya being close to 3M. Of course we will hear but soundscan doesn't have it doing such and such. People act like soundscan of today was the same as it was back in the early 90's when it didn't count sames from some of the largest places. Soundscan didn't count record club sales at all. And of course, alot of people got those Vinnie albums on CD during that time period.
Look how bad Asylum did. You didn't see it ship platinum. They spent more money on videos trying to push that album. That one got 3 and it still didn't sell well. And because Asylum did so poorly it went to the "two year plan" on Crazy Nights. The one thing that did help KISS during the time was they began to play up the nostalgia again. The makeup times were back thanks to eXposed being released prior to CN coming out. Crazy Nights can't be looked upon as any success at all. The tour was hemorrhaging money they couldn't even afford to keep paying a keyboard player to stay on tour with them. And they had to pay Ted Nugent decent bucks to help fill some seats.
So what came next? An album that is basically demos. One that had sold so poorly, Chrysalis did a survey during the HITS tour trying to figure out why people weren't buying KISS albums. Yes, "Forever" as a $1.50 cassingle sold well but it didn't move albums.
What was KISS left with? Going back to Vinnie. Revenge is around 1M in sales. Even if you go by the soundscan figures (which missed a ton of sales on its initial release and doesnt' account for record club sales), Revenge is still the best KISS selling album from 1989 forward. It's timing of course was hurt by grunge. The delay of the Revenge tour also hurt it subtantially. Using Faster Pussycat and some of the other opening acts on that tour certainly didn't help things. And there was no Slaughter or Winger to help put a ton of butts in the seats like KISS had on the HITS tour.
Revenge could have been substantially better if they had used more Vinnie songs on it. But at least Vinnie got KISS BACK on track just like he did with COTN. KISS' direction prior to Vinnie was not good (as evidenced by the early COTN sessions which wound up on "Killers"). And Bruce Kulick got set down because his playing wasn't up to snuff.
If anyone is honest, they will admit the 3 best KISS albums from 1977-on are COTN, LICK IT UP and REVENGE.
KISS is lucky the reunion happened because "Carnival Of Grunge" would have put them to playing 1,000 seaters
Whatever you want to say about Vinnie and his output since All Systems Go, the fact is undeniable that he was by far the 3rd most important songwriter to KISS (Behind Gene and Paul). That Metal-N-Roll put KISS back on top after KISS had buried themselves 3 feet under.
Maybe Vinnie can't save himself, but he sure saved KISS.
It's a shame Paul's ego was too huge and they were too cheap to pay Vinnie accordingly. They really cost themselves a ton of money they could have had from 1984 up to at least the mid 90's. They'd probably still own their publishing and wouldn't have had to sell that off just to keep afloat.
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Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?
I've never taken "Vinnie saved KISS" to mean anything but CREATIVELY. They might have struggled to sell tickets but COTN and LIU were certainly several steps in the right direction after the preceding couple of albums.LordThurisaz wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2019 12:46 am I love the Vinnie Vincent revisionist history around here; it's comical. It's about as made up as the stories in a Greek Mythology class.
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Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?
Paul and/or other writing partners would have got the band back on course without Vinnie. I don't believe any of the hype about Vinnie saving Kiss, even creatively. He was just lucky enough to be around when they were saving their own asses. It was Paul's drive and vision that pulled Kiss through the early 80s, Vinnie was just a passenger.Tito wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:18 amI've never taken "Vinnie saved KISS" to mean anything but CREATIVELY. They might have struggled to sell tickets but COTN and LIU were certainly several steps in the right direction after the preceding couple of albums.LordThurisaz wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2019 12:46 am I love the Vinnie Vincent revisionist history around here; it's comical. It's about as made up as the stories in a Greek Mythology class.
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Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?
There is a very personal stamp to his style of writing riffs and melodies, that I for one happen to love. Wouldn't have been the same without him.Stanley! You look so cute wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:29 amPaul and/or other writing partners would have got the band back on course without Vinnie. I don't believe any of the hype about Vinnie saving Kiss, even creatively. He was just lucky enough to be around when they were saving their own asses. It was Paul's drive and vision that pulled Kiss through the early 80s, Vinnie was just a passenger.Tito wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:18 amI've never taken "Vinnie saved KISS" to mean anything but CREATIVELY. They might have struggled to sell tickets but COTN and LIU were certainly several steps in the right direction after the preceding couple of albums.LordThurisaz wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2019 12:46 am I love the Vinnie Vincent revisionist history around here; it's comical. It's about as made up as the stories in a Greek Mythology class.
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Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?
I couldn’t believe the drop in quality from LIU to Animalize.
Dave Dickson’s review in Kerrang! said Animalize wasn’t good enough/bang average and it was literally the only time I ever agreed with him.
A sprinkling of VV would have maintained the standard set on the previous 2 albums.
Dave Dickson’s review in Kerrang! said Animalize wasn’t good enough/bang average and it was literally the only time I ever agreed with him.
A sprinkling of VV would have maintained the standard set on the previous 2 albums.
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Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?
Animalize made me stop being a fan for years. When I bought the album I was heavily disappointed. Didn't even wanna go see the tour and lost interest for years. When Asylum was released I knew KISS had taken a wrong turn even more. I gained a little new interest after the release of Crazy Nights but it took until Revenge before the fire started burning again.
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Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?
Same here. Loved the Carr/Vincent lineup almost as much as the originals. When that fell apart, I was pretty much done.
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Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?
That lineup gave them raw power, menacing dark vibes, here we are ready to kill, they became aggressive again, no one can stop them attitudeWiped Out 78 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2019 6:30 amSame here. Loved the Carr/Vincent lineup almost as much as the originals. When that fell apart, I was pretty much done.
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Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?
Yep, although I never really cared for Eric Carr as a drummer or as a singer. But I do remember VV's guitarsolo in Brussels 1983 from the LIU tour. It was mayhem, as if WW III had just begun. Over the top, very aggressive. I loved it! Though at the same time I was disappointed that unmasked KISS had become just a regular rock band and I was more of an originals fan. Still am.C wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2019 6:35 amThat lineup gave them raw power, menacing dark vibes, here we are ready to kill, they became aggressive again, no one can stop them attitudeWiped Out 78 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2019 6:30 amSame here. Loved the Carr/Vincent lineup almost as much as the originals. When that fell apart, I was pretty much done.
Except for the Revenge and COS era, I never cared for Bruce Kulicks interpretation of Kiss songs either. So that mid 80's era was a waste of time in KISS land imho.
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Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?
Gotta admit, few things in the world were as menacing-looking as KISS, circa late-1983...
Just look at Gene; isn't he channeling unfiltered, unchecked menace ?
Better yet, just look at Cusano: scary vibes right there...
Seriously ?
Just look at Gene; isn't he channeling unfiltered, unchecked menace ?
Better yet, just look at Cusano: scary vibes right there...
Seriously ?
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Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?
In reply to the sphinx staying chrysalis were incompetent well they certainly were not incompetent in selling millions of slaughter albums with the same team.
highvoltage1969 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:18 amWelcome back!TheSphinx wrote: ↑Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:14 amIt would have been huge! "Animalize" basically shipped platinum due to the strength of "Lick It Up". Of course there was the 90 day window in place at the time. And it was certified Platinum on Dec 3, 1984 & released Sept 1, 1984.Red_Walrus wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:55 amI got a few questions.What would Animalize looked like if VV stayed. What songs off VV Invasion would have made it.I think it would have been huge. Pauls songs were great and he had the hit with "HOF" but if VV could have bolstered up Genes songs and also included some of his own it would have been killer. Anyone have a playlist of what could have been?
"Lick It Up" was already past 1M in sales before "Animalize" came out. It's sad to be past 2M in sales.Lick It Up is far more beloved. It ranks in most Top 10 best Kiss albums of all time. Usually ranks as the best or 2nd best Kiss album from 1980-Forward (with it switching places with COTN) which is basically another Vinnie album.
Had Vinnie been around for that album and tour it is what they would have needed for them to be back on top.
I think without a doubt, they would have dropped most of the "classic songs" and they would have been playing mainly material from COTN, LICK IT UP and the new album. They wouldn't have had to rely on the past. Metal-N-Roll would have been here to stay.6 songs from "Lick It Up" were played during at least 44 of the shows on that tour. "All Hells Breaking Loose" 54. Exciter 44. Lick It Up, Young and Wasted, Gimme More, Fits Like a Glove all over 90 times.Also 4 songs from COTN were part of the regular set list: I Love It Loud, Creatures, War Machine, I Still Love You.They could have easily kept those 10 songs for the set list of Animalize and added 4-5 more from Animalize and just done "Rock & Roll Alnight" and maybe 1 other "classic Kiss" song. They could have also switched out "A Million To One" for "I Still Love You" and it would have gone over huge.
Animalize was a mediocre album with only one really strong song. Heavens On Fire. And HOF is still no "Lick It Up". Everyone knows Lick It Up. You look at how many times Kiss has been on late night, American Idol, you name it and usually "Lick It Up" is one of the songs they play.
And why did Asylum fail to ship platinum? Because Animalize wasn't very strong. Most albums are sold initially based on the one before it. There can be other factors but . .That's why reason Vinnie Vincent Invasion sold so well. Why it was the fastest selling album in the history of Chrysalis. And it only had one single/video to prmote it. Yet, by the time of "All Systems Go" release it was right around 500,000.
And the strength of "Invasion" of course led to far more publicity, bigger ad bugets etc. That's why "All Systems Go" was already at 500,000 units with 2 1/2 months. Of course, All Systems Go probably could have done 2-3X platinum had it not been for alot of the ineptitude at Chrysalis. If the album had come out when it was originally supposed to, Vinnie Vincent Invasion would have had the opening slot on the Aerosmith Permanent Vacation tour.
Also, Chrysalis management was so incompetent back then they thought it was too expensive to put out two different versions of the same album. They could have easily released a "Full Shredd" version of "All Systems Go" and a more radio friendly version. Which would have sold incredibly well and most Kiss/Vinnie fans would have picked up both versions. They could have kept Vinnie happy and also had more mainstream success. But not doing that. Getting Dana & Mark to go behind Vinnie's back and remix more "radio friendly" versions was not the thing to do.
And people go well, Vinnie didn't "officially" get RIAA awards. Or they bring up nonsense like where it placed highest on Billboard like that meant anything. Like Billboard figures were based on reality. All you've got to do is look at Smashes, Trashes & Hits to see how short it was on the charts etc but yet. And of course whether you had a video or a new single, tour all played a factor.People bring up Slaughter and their success.
Of course SITY was basically the third VVI release. Same record company. You name it. Mark & Dana from VVI. They had the entire Vinnie Vincent fan club list etc. All those street teamers were basically VVI fans. Why do you think Up All Night was on Dial MTV from Day 1 and stayed there. Slaughter had already been offered the opening tour slot on the "Hot In The Shade" tour before their album was even released. Why do you think Kiss did that?
Both VVI albums are said to be around 1M copies each. Which wouldn't be surprising with Stick It To Ya being close to 3M. Of course we will hear but soundscan doesn't have it doing such and such. People act like soundscan of today was the same as it was back in the early 90's when it didn't count sames from some of the largest places. Soundscan didn't count record club sales at all. And of course, alot of people got those Vinnie albums on CD during that time period.
Look how bad Asylum did. You didn't see it ship platinum. They spent more money on videos trying to push that album. That one got 3 and it still didn't sell well. And because Asylum did so poorly it went to the "two year plan" on Crazy Nights. The one thing that did help KISS during the time was they began to play up the nostalgia again. The makeup times were back thanks to eXposed being released prior to CN coming out. Crazy Nights can't be looked upon as any success at all. The tour was hemorrhaging money they couldn't even afford to keep paying a keyboard player to stay on tour with them. And they had to pay Ted Nugent decent bucks to help fill some seats.
So what came next? An album that is basically demos. One that had sold so poorly, Chrysalis did a survey during the HITS tour trying to figure out why people weren't buying KISS albums. Yes, "Forever" as a $1.50 cassingle sold well but it didn't move albums.
What was KISS left with? Going back to Vinnie. Revenge is around 1M in sales. Even if you go by the soundscan figures (which missed a ton of sales on its initial release and doesnt' account for record club sales), Revenge is still the best KISS selling album from 1989 forward. It's timing of course was hurt by grunge. The delay of the Revenge tour also hurt it subtantially. Using Faster Pussycat and some of the other opening acts on that tour certainly didn't help things. And there was no Slaughter or Winger to help put a ton of butts in the seats like KISS had on the HITS tour.
Revenge could have been substantially better if they had used more Vinnie songs on it. But at least Vinnie got KISS BACK on track just like he did with COTN. KISS' direction prior to Vinnie was not good (as evidenced by the early COTN sessions which wound up on "Killers"). And Bruce Kulick got set down because his playing wasn't up to snuff.
If anyone is honest, they will admit the 3 best KISS albums from 1977-on are COTN, LICK IT UP and REVENGE.
KISS is lucky the reunion happened because "Carnival Of Grunge" would have put them to playing 1,000 seaters
Whatever you want to say about Vinnie and his output since All Systems Go, the fact is undeniable that he was by far the 3rd most important songwriter to KISS (Behind Gene and Paul). That Metal-N-Roll put KISS back on top after KISS had buried themselves 3 feet under.
Maybe Vinnie can't save himself, but he sure saved KISS.
It's a shame Paul's ego was too huge and they were too cheap to pay Vinnie accordingly. They really cost themselves a ton of money they could have had from 1984 up to at least the mid 90's. They'd probably still own their publishing and wouldn't have had to sell that off just to keep afloat.
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Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?
The term fastest selling album in the history of chrysalis means nothing. What time span. It could have been one guy bought it the second it hit the shops. That would also mean it's the fastest selling album in the history of chrysalis. It's a record company spin term they used to sell the album just like vv said he didn't have mark slaughters phone number or he would have hired him over robert and just like he said he ran his pink Jackson under the tour bus when jn fact he just had it resprayed
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Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?
I highly doubt his dreck sold faster than Billy Idol.EggFlip wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:07 am The term fastest selling album in the history of chrysalis means nothing. What time span. It could have been one guy bought it the second it hit the shops. That would also mean it's the fastest selling album in the history of chrysalis. It's a record company spin term they used to sell the album just like vv said he didn't have mark slaughters phone number or he would have hired him over robert and just like he said he ran his pink Jackson under the tour bus when jn fact he just had it resprayed
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Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?
This. LIU is overrated to the third power.Stanley! You look so cute wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:12 am Vinnie's guitar playing was already sounding dated by the time Animalize came out, and he was a terrible fit for the band live. All of the fans I knew at the time hated his playing and said he ruined the LIU tour. If you listen to any recordings from that tour now, Vinnie's playing sounds absolutely ridiculous.
Overall I prefer Animalize to Lick It Up. Under The Gun, Thrills In The Night and Heaven's on Fire are way stronger than anything off LIU, and with Bruce onboard they had a much more tasteful and appropriate guitarist for the tour.
The Vinnie era is just a blip in Kisstory that a lot of us would rather forget.
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Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?
I don't know if Chrysalis were incompetent, but Mark Slaughter did an interview with DecibelGeek, where he stated that Chrysalis really stepped up their promotion game for the first Slaughter album. Far beyond what they had done for VVI.
That being said, VVI was always destined to implode eventually. Once they became the "Vinnie Vincent Invasion Featuring Mark Slaughter", the writing was on the wall.
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Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?
I went back and edited it. I had left off "debut". Invasion was the fastest selling debut in the history of Chrysalis. It had to do with the first month of sales. I think they were already on their 3rd pressing. The initial pressing was 50K. That was gone before the first week was out.
And there was a problem at the plant and there was a delay I believe right around October.
And his "All Systems Go" album even sold faster. All Systems Go shipped 250,000 units. Within a month, many stores were already on their 3rd order.
And by the time "featuring Mark Slaughter" appeared ... it was already pretty much over with Vinnie/ Chrysalis.
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Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?
Actually - every Kiss fan knows Crazy Nights followed Asylum not HITS like you so easy revised and inserted. We also know Vinnie lost his mind and went AWOL. So your timeline and comments should end when Vinnie went crazy.TheSphinx wrote: ↑Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:14 amRed_Walrus wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:55 amI got a few questions.What would Animalize looked like if VV stayed. What songs off VV Invasion would have made it.I think it would have been huge. Pauls songs were great and he had the hit with "HOF" but if VV could have bolstered up Genes songs and also included some of his own it would have been killer. Anyone have a playlist of what could have been?
So what came next? An album that is basically demos. One that had sold so poorly, Chrysalis did a survey during the HITS tour trying to figure out why people weren't buying KISS albums. Yes, "Forever" as a $1.50 cassingle sold well but it didn't move albums.
Also you might want to include talking about Smashed Thrashes and Hits and how it sold 2 million pr 2.5 million and has Let's Put the X in Sex as a single. I don't think anyone has figured out how that album sold so much and it had nothing to do with Vinnie. By the time 1987 rolled around Vinnie was an after thought in Kiss. If anyone talked about anyone coming back it was always - when is Ace coming back, not Vinnie.
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Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?
I have no idea what you are talking about. The only thing I edited in that post was Invasion was the fastest selling DEBUT album. I put in debut.PterCriss wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:09 pmActually - every Kiss fan knows Crazy Nights followed Asylum not HITS like you so easy revised and inserted. We also know Vinnie lost his mind and went AWOL. So your timeline and comments should end when Vinnie went crazy.TheSphinx wrote: ↑Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:14 amRed_Walrus wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:55 amI got a few questions.What would Animalize looked like if VV stayed. What songs off VV Invasion would have made it.I think it would have been huge. Pauls songs were great and he had the hit with "HOF" but if VV could have bolstered up Genes songs and also included some of his own it would have been killer. Anyone have a playlist of what could have been?
So what came next? An album that is basically demos. One that had sold so poorly, Chrysalis did a survey during the HITS tour trying to figure out why people weren't buying KISS albums. Yes, "Forever" as a $1.50 cassingle sold well but it didn't move albums.
Also you might want to include talking about Smashed Thrashes and Hits and how it sold 2 million pr 2.5 million and has Let's Put the X in Sex as a single. I don't think anyone has figured out how that album sold so much and it had nothing to do with Vinnie. By the time 1987 rolled around Vinnie was an after thought in Kiss. If anyone talked about anyone coming back it was always - when is Ace coming back, not Vinnie.
Look how bad Asylum did. You didn't see it ship platinum. They spent more money on videos trying to push that album. That one got 3 and it still didn't sell well. And because Asylum did so poorly it went to the "two year plan" on Crazy Nights. The one thing that did help KISS during the time was they began to play up the nostalgia again. The makeup times were back thanks to eXposed being released prior to CN coming out. Crazy Nights can't be looked upon as any success at all. The tour was hemorrhaging money they couldn't even afford to keep paying a keyboard player to stay on tour with them. And they had to pay Ted Nugent decent bucks to help fill some seats.
So what came next? An album that is basically demos. One that had sold so poorly, Chrysalis did a survey during the HITS tour trying to figure out why people weren't buying KISS albums. Yes, "Forever" as a $1.50 cassingle sold well but it didn't move albums.
Other people have quoted it and you can see its the same in their quotes of my post. So what are you lying about?
I've also mocked people for using Billboard's top charting #'s and length as if it proves anything when ST&H was their biggest seller but you wouldn't know that from its chart history. It's sales shouldn't have come as any big surprise. Kiss was pushing the makeup past (since Exposed). It was a new Greatest Hits cd. Cd's had been taking off. It was a great time for people to get a Greatest Hits collection of KISS with old and newer songs like I Love It Loud, Lick It Up.
How long did it take Ace to get a record deal? If Eddie Trunk hadn't given him one would he have ever gotten one?
Ace was relying on Vinnie just like KISS. I mean Ace was playing "Back On The Streets". Then Ace had to rely on a Paul Stanley song. Pretty pathetic of him to record "Hide Your Heart". Ace's most known single from his comeback "Into The Night". One more song Ace didn't write just like his hit NY Groove. Then one of his singles was "Do Ya". A hit songwriting machine he was.
Last edited by TheSphinx on Thu Aug 22, 2019 8:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?
I know I checked out being a fan in the 80’s but why would Chrysalis have done a survey of why KISS albums weren’t selling? If I recall they never were on that label????TheSphinx wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:53 pmI have no idea what you are talking about. The only thing I edited in that post was Invasion was the fastest selling DEBUT album. I put in debut.PterCriss wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:09 pmActually - every Kiss fan knows Crazy Nights followed Asylum not HITS like you so easy revised and inserted. We also know Vinnie lost his mind and went AWOL. So your timeline and comments should end when Vinnie went crazy.TheSphinx wrote: ↑Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:14 amRed_Walrus wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:55 amI got a few questions.What would Animalize looked like if VV stayed. What songs off VV Invasion would have made it.I think it would have been huge. Pauls songs were great and he had the hit with "HOF" but if VV could have bolstered up Genes songs and also included some of his own it would have been killer. Anyone have a playlist of what could have been?
So what came next? An album that is basically demos. One that had sold so poorly, Chrysalis did a survey during the HITS tour trying to figure out why people weren't buying KISS albums. Yes, "Forever" as a $1.50 cassingle sold well but it didn't move albums.
Also you might want to include talking about Smashed Thrashes and Hits and how it sold 2 million pr 2.5 million and has Let's Put the X in Sex as a single. I don't think anyone has figured out how that album sold so much and it had nothing to do with Vinnie. By the time 1987 rolled around Vinnie was an after thought in Kiss. If anyone talked about anyone coming back it was always - when is Ace coming back, not Vinnie.
Look how bad Asylum did. You didn't see it ship platinum. They spent more money on videos trying to push that album. That one got 3 and it still didn't sell well. And because Asylum did so poorly it went to the "two year plan" on Crazy Nights. The one thing that did help KISS during the time was they began to play up the nostalgia again. The makeup times were back thanks to eXposed being released prior to CN coming out. Crazy Nights can't be looked upon as any success at all. The tour was hemorrhaging money they couldn't even afford to keep paying a keyboard player to stay on tour with them. And they had to pay Ted Nugent decent bucks to help fill some seats.
So what came next? An album that is basically demos. One that had sold so poorly, Chrysalis did a survey during the HITS tour trying to figure out why people weren't buying KISS albums. Yes, "Forever" as a $1.50 cassingle sold well but it didn't move albums.
Other people have quoted it and you can see its the same in their quotes of my post. So what are you lying about?
I've also mocked people for using Billboard's top charting #'s and length as if it proves anything when ST&H was their biggest seller but you wouldn't know that from its chart history. It's sales shouldn't have come as any big surprise. Kiss was pushing the makeup past (since Exposed). It was a new Greatest Hits cd. Cd's had been taking off. It was a great time for people to get a Greatest Hits collection of KISS with old and newer songs like I Love It Loud, Lick It Up.
How long did it take Ace to get a record deal? If Eddie Trunk hadn't given him one would he have ever gotten one?
Ace was relying on Vinnie just like KISS. I mean Ace was playing "Back On The Streets". Then Ace had to rely on a Paul Stanley song. Pretty pathetic of him to record "Hide Your Heart". Ace's most known single from his comeback "Into The Night". One more song Ace didn't write just like his hit NY Groove. Then one of his singles was "Do Ya". A hit songwriting machine he was.
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Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?
YOOOOOOOOOOOOOO MY BROTHER SPHINXIE!!!!!!!!TheSphinx wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:53 pmI have no idea what you are talking about. The only thing I edited in that post was Invasion was the fastest selling DEBUT album. I put in debut.PterCriss wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:09 pmActually - every Kiss fan knows Crazy Nights followed Asylum not HITS like you so easy revised and inserted. We also know Vinnie lost his mind and went AWOL. So your timeline and comments should end when Vinnie went crazy.TheSphinx wrote: ↑Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:14 amRed_Walrus wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:55 amI got a few questions.What would Animalize looked like if VV stayed. What songs off VV Invasion would have made it.I think it would have been huge. Pauls songs were great and he had the hit with "HOF" but if VV could have bolstered up Genes songs and also included some of his own it would have been killer. Anyone have a playlist of what could have been?
So what came next? An album that is basically demos. One that had sold so poorly, Chrysalis did a survey during the HITS tour trying to figure out why people weren't buying KISS albums. Yes, "Forever" as a $1.50 cassingle sold well but it didn't move albums.
Also you might want to include talking about Smashed Thrashes and Hits and how it sold 2 million pr 2.5 million and has Let's Put the X in Sex as a single. I don't think anyone has figured out how that album sold so much and it had nothing to do with Vinnie. By the time 1987 rolled around Vinnie was an after thought in Kiss. If anyone talked about anyone coming back it was always - when is Ace coming back, not Vinnie.
Look how bad Asylum did. You didn't see it ship platinum. They spent more money on videos trying to push that album. That one got 3 and it still didn't sell well. And because Asylum did so poorly it went to the "two year plan" on Crazy Nights. The one thing that did help KISS during the time was they began to play up the nostalgia again. The makeup times were back thanks to eXposed being released prior to CN coming out. Crazy Nights can't be looked upon as any success at all. The tour was hemorrhaging money they couldn't even afford to keep paying a keyboard player to stay on tour with them. And they had to pay Ted Nugent decent bucks to help fill some seats.
So what came next? An album that is basically demos. One that had sold so poorly, Chrysalis did a survey during the HITS tour trying to figure out why people weren't buying KISS albums. Yes, "Forever" as a $1.50 cassingle sold well but it didn't move albums.
Other people have quoted it and you can see its the same in their quotes of my post. So what are you lying about?
I've also mocked people for using Billboard's top charting #'s and length as if it proves anything when ST&H was their biggest seller but you wouldn't know that from its chart history. It's sales shouldn't have come as any big surprise. Kiss was pushing the makeup past (since Exposed). It was a new Greatest Hits cd. Cd's had been taking off. It was a great time for people to get a Greatest Hits collection of KISS with old and newer songs like I Love It Loud, Lick It Up.
How long did it take Ace to get a record deal? If Eddie Trunk hadn't given him one would he have ever gotten one?
Ace was relying on Vinnie just like KISS. I mean Ace was playing "Back On The Streets". Then Ace had to rely on a Paul Stanley song. Pretty pathetic of him to record "Hide Your Heart". Ace's most known single from his comeback "Into The Night". One more song Ace didn't write just like his hit NY Groove. Then one of his singles was "Do Ya". A hit songwriting machine he was.
Where the hell you been my man?!?!?!?
Brah...it’s soooo good to see your name pop up on the boards. I couldn’t believe my eyes. I sincerely and genuinely hope all is well with you and yours. It’s so good to have you back.
Our donnybrooks are what legends are made of. The nice thing is the threads never got locked. Don’t get me wrong...those were some dogfights and we did sling a little mud here and there but we always kept a level of civility to it. Good times. Good times.
There’s a new guy on here who shall remain nameless that does remind me of you. He’s got your tenacity for sure...but none of your intelligence and style. He always has me thinking about the good ol’ days.
I tip my hat to the return of a most worthy opponent.
(Now back to our regularly scheduled program)
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Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?
"Look how bad Asylum did. You didn't see it ship platinum. They spent more money on videos trying to push that album. That one got 3 and it still didn't sell well. And because Asylum did so poorly it went to the "two year plan" on Crazy Nights. The one thing that did help KISS during the time was they began to play up the nostalgia again. The makeup times were back thanks to eXposed being released prior to CN coming out. Crazy Nights can't be looked upon as any success at all. The tour was hemorrhaging money they couldn't even afford to keep paying a keyboard player to stay on tour with them. And they had to pay Ted Nugent decent bucks to help fill some seats.TheSphinx wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:53 pmI have no idea what you are talking about. The only thing I edited in that post was Invasion was the fastest selling DEBUT album. I put in debut.PterCriss wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:09 pmActually - every Kiss fan knows Crazy Nights followed Asylum not HITS like you so easy revised and inserted. We also know Vinnie lost his mind and went AWOL. So your timeline and comments should end when Vinnie went crazy.TheSphinx wrote: ↑Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:14 amRed_Walrus wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:55 amI got a few questions.What would Animalize looked like if VV stayed. What songs off VV Invasion would have made it.I think it would have been huge. Pauls songs were great and he had the hit with "HOF" but if VV could have bolstered up Genes songs and also included some of his own it would have been killer. Anyone have a playlist of what could have been?
So what came next? An album that is basically demos. One that had sold so poorly, Chrysalis did a survey during the HITS tour trying to figure out why people weren't buying KISS albums. Yes, "Forever" as a $1.50 cassingle sold well but it didn't move albums.
Also you might want to include talking about Smashed Thrashes and Hits and how it sold 2 million pr 2.5 million and has Let's Put the X in Sex as a single. I don't think anyone has figured out how that album sold so much and it had nothing to do with Vinnie. By the time 1987 rolled around Vinnie was an after thought in Kiss. If anyone talked about anyone coming back it was always - when is Ace coming back, not Vinnie.
Look how bad Asylum did. You didn't see it ship platinum. They spent more money on videos trying to push that album. That one got 3 and it still didn't sell well. And because Asylum did so poorly it went to the "two year plan" on Crazy Nights. The one thing that did help KISS during the time was they began to play up the nostalgia again. The makeup times were back thanks to eXposed being released prior to CN coming out. Crazy Nights can't be looked upon as any success at all. The tour was hemorrhaging money they couldn't even afford to keep paying a keyboard player to stay on tour with them. And they had to pay Ted Nugent decent bucks to help fill some seats.
So what came next? An album that is basically demos. One that had sold so poorly, Chrysalis did a survey during the HITS tour trying to figure out why people weren't buying KISS albums. Yes, "Forever" as a $1.50 cassingle sold well but it didn't move albums.
Other people have quoted it and you can see its the same in their quotes of my post. So what are you lying about?
I've also mocked people for using Billboard's top charting #'s and length as if it proves anything when ST&H was their biggest seller but you wouldn't know that from its chart history. It's sales shouldn't have come as any big surprise. Kiss was pushing the makeup past (since Exposed). It was a new Greatest Hits cd. Cd's had been taking off. It was a great time for people to get a Greatest Hits collection of KISS with old and newer songs like I Love It Loud, Lick It Up.
How long did it take Ace to get a record deal? If Eddie Trunk hadn't given him one would he have ever gotten one?
Ace was relying on Vinnie just like KISS. I mean Ace was playing "Back On The Streets". Then Ace had to rely on a Paul Stanley song. Pretty pathetic of him to record "Hide Your Heart". Ace's most known single from his comeback "Into The Night". One more song Ace didn't write just like his hit NY Groove. Then one of his singles was "Do Ya". A hit songwriting machine he was.
"So what came next? An album that is basically demos. One that had sold so poorly, Chrysalis did a survey during the HITS tour trying to figure out why people weren't buying KISS albums. Yes, "Forever" as a $1.50 cassingle sold well but it didn't move albums."
So what came next? Again you somehow missed Kiss' biggest album in the 1980's in Smashes Thrashes and Hits. Why ignore this album?
So what came next was the 2.5 million selling Smashes Thrashes and Hits. Then came Hot In The Shade which was Kiss best tour since Dynasty (you like how I just skipped Vinnie' tour) ?
And why would Chrysalis do a survey on Kiss albums?
- PterCriss
- Banned
- Posts: 2818
- Joined: Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:31 pm
Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?
I don't swing that way but glad my tenacity reminds you of your Broke Back Mountain days with Sphinxy. Lol.nibbler1982 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:16 pmYOOOOOOOOOOOOOO MY BROTHER SPHINXIE!!!!!!!!TheSphinx wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:53 pmI have no idea what you are talking about. The only thing I edited in that post was Invasion was the fastest selling DEBUT album. I put in debut.PterCriss wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:09 pmActually - every Kiss fan knows Crazy Nights followed Asylum not HITS like you so easy revised and inserted. We also know Vinnie lost his mind and went AWOL. So your timeline and comments should end when Vinnie went crazy.TheSphinx wrote: ↑Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:14 amRed_Walrus wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:55 amI got a few questions.What would Animalize looked like if VV stayed. What songs off VV Invasion would have made it.I think it would have been huge. Pauls songs were great and he had the hit with "HOF" but if VV could have bolstered up Genes songs and also included some of his own it would have been killer. Anyone have a playlist of what could have been?
So what came next? An album that is basically demos. One that had sold so poorly, Chrysalis did a survey during the HITS tour trying to figure out why people weren't buying KISS albums. Yes, "Forever" as a $1.50 cassingle sold well but it didn't move albums.
Also you might want to include talking about Smashed Thrashes and Hits and how it sold 2 million pr 2.5 million and has Let's Put the X in Sex as a single. I don't think anyone has figured out how that album sold so much and it had nothing to do with Vinnie. By the time 1987 rolled around Vinnie was an after thought in Kiss. If anyone talked about anyone coming back it was always - when is Ace coming back, not Vinnie.
Look how bad Asylum did. You didn't see it ship platinum. They spent more money on videos trying to push that album. That one got 3 and it still didn't sell well. And because Asylum did so poorly it went to the "two year plan" on Crazy Nights. The one thing that did help KISS during the time was they began to play up the nostalgia again. The makeup times were back thanks to eXposed being released prior to CN coming out. Crazy Nights can't be looked upon as any success at all. The tour was hemorrhaging money they couldn't even afford to keep paying a keyboard player to stay on tour with them. And they had to pay Ted Nugent decent bucks to help fill some seats.
So what came next? An album that is basically demos. One that had sold so poorly, Chrysalis did a survey during the HITS tour trying to figure out why people weren't buying KISS albums. Yes, "Forever" as a $1.50 cassingle sold well but it didn't move albums.
Other people have quoted it and you can see its the same in their quotes of my post. So what are you lying about?
I've also mocked people for using Billboard's top charting #'s and length as if it proves anything when ST&H was their biggest seller but you wouldn't know that from its chart history. It's sales shouldn't have come as any big surprise. Kiss was pushing the makeup past (since Exposed). It was a new Greatest Hits cd. Cd's had been taking off. It was a great time for people to get a Greatest Hits collection of KISS with old and newer songs like I Love It Loud, Lick It Up.
How long did it take Ace to get a record deal? If Eddie Trunk hadn't given him one would he have ever gotten one?
Ace was relying on Vinnie just like KISS. I mean Ace was playing "Back On The Streets". Then Ace had to rely on a Paul Stanley song. Pretty pathetic of him to record "Hide Your Heart". Ace's most known single from his comeback "Into The Night". One more song Ace didn't write just like his hit NY Groove. Then one of his singles was "Do Ya". A hit songwriting machine he was.
Where the hell you been my man?!?!?!?
Brah...it’s soooo good to see your name pop up on the boards. I couldn’t believe my eyes. I sincerely and genuinely hope all is well with you and yours. It’s so good to have you back.
Our donnybrooks are what legends are made of. The nice thing is the threads never got locked. Don’t get me wrong...those were some dogfights and we did sling a little mud here and there but we always kept a level of civility to it. Good times. Good times.
There’s a new guy on here who shall remain nameless that does remind me of you. He’s got your tenacity for sure...but none of your intelligence and style. He always has me thinking about the good ol’ days.
I tip my hat to the return of a most worthy opponent.
(Now back to our regularly scheduled program)
- nibbler1982
- Dots are People Too
- Posts: 13610
- Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2009 2:12 pm
- Location: Merrick, Strong Island
Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?
Who was talking about you and what does Broke Back Mountain have to do with this conversation?PterCriss wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:19 pmI don't swing that way but glad my tenacity reminds you of your Broke Back Mountain days with Sphinxy. Lol.nibbler1982 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:16 pmYOOOOOOOOOOOOOO MY BROTHER SPHINXIE!!!!!!!!TheSphinx wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:53 pmI have no idea what you are talking about. The only thing I edited in that post was Invasion was the fastest selling DEBUT album. I put in debut.PterCriss wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:09 pmActually - every Kiss fan knows Crazy Nights followed Asylum not HITS like you so easy revised and inserted. We also know Vinnie lost his mind and went AWOL. So your timeline and comments should end when Vinnie went crazy.TheSphinx wrote: ↑Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:14 amRed_Walrus wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:55 amI got a few questions.What would Animalize looked like if VV stayed. What songs off VV Invasion would have made it.I think it would have been huge. Pauls songs were great and he had the hit with "HOF" but if VV could have bolstered up Genes songs and also included some of his own it would have been killer. Anyone have a playlist of what could have been?
So what came next? An album that is basically demos. One that had sold so poorly, Chrysalis did a survey during the HITS tour trying to figure out why people weren't buying KISS albums. Yes, "Forever" as a $1.50 cassingle sold well but it didn't move albums.
Also you might want to include talking about Smashed Thrashes and Hits and how it sold 2 million pr 2.5 million and has Let's Put the X in Sex as a single. I don't think anyone has figured out how that album sold so much and it had nothing to do with Vinnie. By the time 1987 rolled around Vinnie was an after thought in Kiss. If anyone talked about anyone coming back it was always - when is Ace coming back, not Vinnie.
Look how bad Asylum did. You didn't see it ship platinum. They spent more money on videos trying to push that album. That one got 3 and it still didn't sell well. And because Asylum did so poorly it went to the "two year plan" on Crazy Nights. The one thing that did help KISS during the time was they began to play up the nostalgia again. The makeup times were back thanks to eXposed being released prior to CN coming out. Crazy Nights can't be looked upon as any success at all. The tour was hemorrhaging money they couldn't even afford to keep paying a keyboard player to stay on tour with them. And they had to pay Ted Nugent decent bucks to help fill some seats.
So what came next? An album that is basically demos. One that had sold so poorly, Chrysalis did a survey during the HITS tour trying to figure out why people weren't buying KISS albums. Yes, "Forever" as a $1.50 cassingle sold well but it didn't move albums.
Other people have quoted it and you can see its the same in their quotes of my post. So what are you lying about?
I've also mocked people for using Billboard's top charting #'s and length as if it proves anything when ST&H was their biggest seller but you wouldn't know that from its chart history. It's sales shouldn't have come as any big surprise. Kiss was pushing the makeup past (since Exposed). It was a new Greatest Hits cd. Cd's had been taking off. It was a great time for people to get a Greatest Hits collection of KISS with old and newer songs like I Love It Loud, Lick It Up.
How long did it take Ace to get a record deal? If Eddie Trunk hadn't given him one would he have ever gotten one?
Ace was relying on Vinnie just like KISS. I mean Ace was playing "Back On The Streets". Then Ace had to rely on a Paul Stanley song. Pretty pathetic of him to record "Hide Your Heart". Ace's most known single from his comeback "Into The Night". One more song Ace didn't write just like his hit NY Groove. Then one of his singles was "Do Ya". A hit songwriting machine he was.
Where the hell you been my man?!?!?!?
Brah...it’s soooo good to see your name pop up on the boards. I couldn’t believe my eyes. I sincerely and genuinely hope all is well with you and yours. It’s so good to have you back.
Our donnybrooks are what legends are made of. The nice thing is the threads never got locked. Don’t get me wrong...those were some dogfights and we did sling a little mud here and there but we always kept a level of civility to it. Good times. Good times.
There’s a new guy on here who shall remain nameless that does remind me of you. He’s got your tenacity for sure...but none of your intelligence and style. He always has me thinking about the good ol’ days.
I tip my hat to the return of a most worthy opponent.
(Now back to our regularly scheduled program)
- PterCriss
- Banned
- Posts: 2818
- Joined: Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:31 pm
Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?
Nibbs comments to Sphinxy - Brah...it’s soooo good to see your name pop up on the boards. I couldn’t believe my eyes.nibbler1982 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:22 pmWho was talking about you and what does Broke Back Mountain have to do with this conversation?PterCriss wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:19 pmI don't swing that way but glad my tenacity reminds you of your Broke Back Mountain days with Sphinxy. Lol.nibbler1982 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:16 pmYOOOOOOOOOOOOOO MY BROTHER SPHINXIE!!!!!!!!TheSphinx wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:53 pmI have no idea what you are talking about. The only thing I edited in that post was Invasion was the fastest selling DEBUT album. I put in debut.PterCriss wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:09 pmActually - every Kiss fan knows Crazy Nights followed Asylum not HITS like you so easy revised and inserted. We also know Vinnie lost his mind and went AWOL. So your timeline and comments should end when Vinnie went crazy.TheSphinx wrote: ↑Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:14 amRed_Walrus wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:55 amI got a few questions.What would Animalize looked like if VV stayed. What songs off VV Invasion would have made it.I think it would have been huge. Pauls songs were great and he had the hit with "HOF" but if VV could have bolstered up Genes songs and also included some of his own it would have been killer. Anyone have a playlist of what could have been?
So what came next? An album that is basically demos. One that had sold so poorly, Chrysalis did a survey during the HITS tour trying to figure out why people weren't buying KISS albums. Yes, "Forever" as a $1.50 cassingle sold well but it didn't move albums.
Also you might want to include talking about Smashed Thrashes and Hits and how it sold 2 million pr 2.5 million and has Let's Put the X in Sex as a single. I don't think anyone has figured out how that album sold so much and it had nothing to do with Vinnie. By the time 1987 rolled around Vinnie was an after thought in Kiss. If anyone talked about anyone coming back it was always - when is Ace coming back, not Vinnie.
Look how bad Asylum did. You didn't see it ship platinum. They spent more money on videos trying to push that album. That one got 3 and it still didn't sell well. And because Asylum did so poorly it went to the "two year plan" on Crazy Nights. The one thing that did help KISS during the time was they began to play up the nostalgia again. The makeup times were back thanks to eXposed being released prior to CN coming out. Crazy Nights can't be looked upon as any success at all. The tour was hemorrhaging money they couldn't even afford to keep paying a keyboard player to stay on tour with them. And they had to pay Ted Nugent decent bucks to help fill some seats.
So what came next? An album that is basically demos. One that had sold so poorly, Chrysalis did a survey during the HITS tour trying to figure out why people weren't buying KISS albums. Yes, "Forever" as a $1.50 cassingle sold well but it didn't move albums.
Other people have quoted it and you can see its the same in their quotes of my post. So what are you lying about?
I've also mocked people for using Billboard's top charting #'s and length as if it proves anything when ST&H was their biggest seller but you wouldn't know that from its chart history. It's sales shouldn't have come as any big surprise. Kiss was pushing the makeup past (since Exposed). It was a new Greatest Hits cd. Cd's had been taking off. It was a great time for people to get a Greatest Hits collection of KISS with old and newer songs like I Love It Loud, Lick It Up.
How long did it take Ace to get a record deal? If Eddie Trunk hadn't given him one would he have ever gotten one?
Ace was relying on Vinnie just like KISS. I mean Ace was playing "Back On The Streets". Then Ace had to rely on a Paul Stanley song. Pretty pathetic of him to record "Hide Your Heart". Ace's most known single from his comeback "Into The Night". One more song Ace didn't write just like his hit NY Groove. Then one of his singles was "Do Ya". A hit songwriting machine he was.
Where the hell you been my man?!?!?!?
Brah...it’s soooo good to see your name pop up on the boards. I couldn’t believe my eyes. I sincerely and genuinely hope all is well with you and yours. It’s so good to have you back.
Our donnybrooks are what legends are made of. The nice thing is the threads never got locked. Don’t get me wrong...those were some dogfights and we did sling a little mud here and there but we always kept a level of civility to it. Good times. Good times.
There’s a new guy on here who shall remain nameless that does remind me of you. He’s got your tenacity for sure...but none of your intelligence and style. He always has me thinking about the good ol’ days.
I tip my hat to the return of a most worthy opponent.
(Now back to our regularly scheduled program)
Nibbs commenting about me. "There’s a new guy on here who shall remain nameless that does remind me of you. He’s got your tenacity for sure."
Nibbs continued about me - "He always has me thinking about the good ol’ days."
I'm flattered that you're always thinking about me. I am the new guy and the only one that has gone back and forth as much as we have over tickets sold vs gross receipts.
- nibbler1982
- Dots are People Too
- Posts: 13610
- Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2009 2:12 pm
- Location: Merrick, Strong Island
Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?
Geez...I hate to bust your bubble but the comment wasn’t about you.PterCriss wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:31 pmNibbs comments to Sphinxy - Brah...it’s soooo good to see your name pop up on the boards. I couldn’t believe my eyes.nibbler1982 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:22 pmWho was talking about you and what does Broke Back Mountain have to do with this conversation?PterCriss wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:19 pmI don't swing that way but glad my tenacity reminds you of your Broke Back Mountain days with Sphinxy. Lol.nibbler1982 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:16 pmYOOOOOOOOOOOOOO MY BROTHER SPHINXIE!!!!!!!!TheSphinx wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:53 pmI have no idea what you are talking about. The only thing I edited in that post was Invasion was the fastest selling DEBUT album. I put in debut.PterCriss wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:09 pmActually - every Kiss fan knows Crazy Nights followed Asylum not HITS like you so easy revised and inserted. We also know Vinnie lost his mind and went AWOL. So your timeline and comments should end when Vinnie went crazy.TheSphinx wrote: ↑Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:14 amRed_Walrus wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:55 amI got a few questions.What would Animalize looked like if VV stayed. What songs off VV Invasion would have made it.I think it would have been huge. Pauls songs were great and he had the hit with "HOF" but if VV could have bolstered up Genes songs and also included some of his own it would have been killer. Anyone have a playlist of what could have been?
So what came next? An album that is basically demos. One that had sold so poorly, Chrysalis did a survey during the HITS tour trying to figure out why people weren't buying KISS albums. Yes, "Forever" as a $1.50 cassingle sold well but it didn't move albums.
Also you might want to include talking about Smashed Thrashes and Hits and how it sold 2 million pr 2.5 million and has Let's Put the X in Sex as a single. I don't think anyone has figured out how that album sold so much and it had nothing to do with Vinnie. By the time 1987 rolled around Vinnie was an after thought in Kiss. If anyone talked about anyone coming back it was always - when is Ace coming back, not Vinnie.
Look how bad Asylum did. You didn't see it ship platinum. They spent more money on videos trying to push that album. That one got 3 and it still didn't sell well. And because Asylum did so poorly it went to the "two year plan" on Crazy Nights. The one thing that did help KISS during the time was they began to play up the nostalgia again. The makeup times were back thanks to eXposed being released prior to CN coming out. Crazy Nights can't be looked upon as any success at all. The tour was hemorrhaging money they couldn't even afford to keep paying a keyboard player to stay on tour with them. And they had to pay Ted Nugent decent bucks to help fill some seats.
So what came next? An album that is basically demos. One that had sold so poorly, Chrysalis did a survey during the HITS tour trying to figure out why people weren't buying KISS albums. Yes, "Forever" as a $1.50 cassingle sold well but it didn't move albums.
Other people have quoted it and you can see its the same in their quotes of my post. So what are you lying about?
I've also mocked people for using Billboard's top charting #'s and length as if it proves anything when ST&H was their biggest seller but you wouldn't know that from its chart history. It's sales shouldn't have come as any big surprise. Kiss was pushing the makeup past (since Exposed). It was a new Greatest Hits cd. Cd's had been taking off. It was a great time for people to get a Greatest Hits collection of KISS with old and newer songs like I Love It Loud, Lick It Up.
How long did it take Ace to get a record deal? If Eddie Trunk hadn't given him one would he have ever gotten one?
Ace was relying on Vinnie just like KISS. I mean Ace was playing "Back On The Streets". Then Ace had to rely on a Paul Stanley song. Pretty pathetic of him to record "Hide Your Heart". Ace's most known single from his comeback "Into The Night". One more song Ace didn't write just like his hit NY Groove. Then one of his singles was "Do Ya". A hit songwriting machine he was.
Where the hell you been my man?!?!?!?
Brah...it’s soooo good to see your name pop up on the boards. I couldn’t believe my eyes. I sincerely and genuinely hope all is well with you and yours. It’s so good to have you back.
Our donnybrooks are what legends are made of. The nice thing is the threads never got locked. Don’t get me wrong...those were some dogfights and we did sling a little mud here and there but we always kept a level of civility to it. Good times. Good times.
There’s a new guy on here who shall remain nameless that does remind me of you. He’s got your tenacity for sure...but none of your intelligence and style. He always has me thinking about the good ol’ days.
I tip my hat to the return of a most worthy opponent.
(Now back to our regularly scheduled program)
Nibbs commenting about me. "There’s a new guy on here who shall remain nameless that does remind me of you. He’s got your tenacity for sure."
Nibbs continued about me - "He always has me thinking about the good ol’ days."
I'm flattered that you're always thinking about me. I am the new guy and the only one that has gone back and forth as much as we have over tickets sold vs gross receipts.
- Phyllis Simmons
- Qualified to wear Ace's makeup!
- Posts: 7232
- Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2014 9:50 am
Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?
Im just glad they had the common sense to not dress like this for the cover of LIU! The fact that they are in good basic jackets and wearing stuff that is fine to wear today definitely helps it.. If they appeared like this on the cover? I think a few more people are shelving it as a relic for that time...Thunderous_Lay wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2019 6:53 am Gotta admit, few things in the world were as menacing-looking as KISS, circa late-1983...
Just look at Gene; isn't he channeling unfiltered, unchecked menace ?
Better yet, just look at Cusano: scary vibes right there...
-
- Trained by Tommy!
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Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?
Totally wrong. All systems go was a massive flop. It sold nothing like what you say.
Vinnie kicked La guns off their tour as la guns were selling three times the shorts vvi were . Ended in a big fight at Harpo's in Detroit that Traci went to press about .
A tit bit too .. mark and Dana during the asg tour asked Traci to join their band they were forming which was to be called slaughterhouse
Vinnie kicked La guns off their tour as la guns were selling three times the shorts vvi were . Ended in a big fight at Harpo's in Detroit that Traci went to press about .
A tit bit too .. mark and Dana during the asg tour asked Traci to join their band they were forming which was to be called slaughterhouse
TheSphinx wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:31 am
I went back and edited it. I had left off "debut". Invasion was the fastest selling debut in the history of Chrysalis. It had to do with the first month of sales. I think they were already on their 3rd pressing. The initial pressing was 50K. That was gone before the first week was out.
And there was a problem at the plant and there was a delay I believe right around October.
And his "All Systems Go" album even sold faster. All Systems Go shipped 250,000 units. Within a month, many stores were already on their 3rd order.
And by the time "featuring Mark Slaughter" appeared ... it was already pretty much over with Vinnie/ Chrysalis.
-
- Trained by Tommy!
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Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?
There were 10 thousand record stores in the states In 1988 all getting at least one copy on tape , cd and vinyl so already 30 thousand copies before one sale will have been shipped aprox
- Lofton23rdSt
- Qualified to wear Ace's makeup!
- Posts: 5165
- Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2018 5:27 pm
Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?
They attacked Vinnie's guitar tech.
- redinthesky
- A really important Kiss fan!
- Posts: 33642
- Joined: Mon Mar 09, 2009 10:17 am
Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?
Oh man, those are major zingaroos! And I couldn't agree more with all of them!Doose wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 12:56 pm Vinnie was successful in KISS because of Gene and Paul.
Vinnie was successful in the Invasion because of Dana and Mark.
Gene and Paul, and Mark and Dana, have gone on to greater success without Vinnie. And they continue to.
Even Blas Elias played with the Blue Man Group for 17 years, and is now playing with Trans-Siberian Orchestra.
Meanwhile, Vinnie is playing to 15 fans in a darkened rehearsal studio under a veil of paranoia and secrecy.
Who saved who?
Vinnie didn't save jack squat. Kiss taking off the makeup saved them. Vinnie was along for the ride. "Animalize" had a great lead single in "Heaven's on Fire" and a great video for it, and it was a perfect "Kiss in 1984" album. Bye bye Vinnie, you were not needed. When he has no one's talents to leech off of, yup, he's playing a closet or a phone booth. I mean, not playing, "appearing" and serving cheap-ass salads.
Vinnie isn't even fit to tie Tommy Thayer's Ace boots.
- PterCriss
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- Joined: Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:31 pm
Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?
Then who was the NEW guy? Tell us.nibbler1982 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:44 pmGeez...I hate to bust your bubble but the comment wasn’t about you.PterCriss wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:31 pmNibbs comments to Sphinxy - Brah...it’s soooo good to see your name pop up on the boards. I couldn’t believe my eyes.nibbler1982 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:22 pmWho was talking about you and what does Broke Back Mountain have to do with this conversation?PterCriss wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:19 pmI don't swing that way but glad my tenacity reminds you of your Broke Back Mountain days with Sphinxy. Lol.nibbler1982 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:16 pmYOOOOOOOOOOOOOO MY BROTHER SPHINXIE!!!!!!!!TheSphinx wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:53 pmI have no idea what you are talking about. The only thing I edited in that post was Invasion was the fastest selling DEBUT album. I put in debut.PterCriss wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:09 pmActually - every Kiss fan knows Crazy Nights followed Asylum not HITS like you so easy revised and inserted. We also know Vinnie lost his mind and went AWOL. So your timeline and comments should end when Vinnie went crazy.TheSphinx wrote: ↑Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:14 amRed_Walrus wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:55 amI got a few questions.What would Animalize looked like if VV stayed. What songs off VV Invasion would have made it.I think it would have been huge. Pauls songs were great and he had the hit with "HOF" but if VV could have bolstered up Genes songs and also included some of his own it would have been killer. Anyone have a playlist of what could have been?
So what came next? An album that is basically demos. One that had sold so poorly, Chrysalis did a survey during the HITS tour trying to figure out why people weren't buying KISS albums. Yes, "Forever" as a $1.50 cassingle sold well but it didn't move albums.
Also you might want to include talking about Smashed Thrashes and Hits and how it sold 2 million pr 2.5 million and has Let's Put the X in Sex as a single. I don't think anyone has figured out how that album sold so much and it had nothing to do with Vinnie. By the time 1987 rolled around Vinnie was an after thought in Kiss. If anyone talked about anyone coming back it was always - when is Ace coming back, not Vinnie.
Look how bad Asylum did. You didn't see it ship platinum. They spent more money on videos trying to push that album. That one got 3 and it still didn't sell well. And because Asylum did so poorly it went to the "two year plan" on Crazy Nights. The one thing that did help KISS during the time was they began to play up the nostalgia again. The makeup times were back thanks to eXposed being released prior to CN coming out. Crazy Nights can't be looked upon as any success at all. The tour was hemorrhaging money they couldn't even afford to keep paying a keyboard player to stay on tour with them. And they had to pay Ted Nugent decent bucks to help fill some seats.
So what came next? An album that is basically demos. One that had sold so poorly, Chrysalis did a survey during the HITS tour trying to figure out why people weren't buying KISS albums. Yes, "Forever" as a $1.50 cassingle sold well but it didn't move albums.
Other people have quoted it and you can see its the same in their quotes of my post. So what are you lying about?
I've also mocked people for using Billboard's top charting #'s and length as if it proves anything when ST&H was their biggest seller but you wouldn't know that from its chart history. It's sales shouldn't have come as any big surprise. Kiss was pushing the makeup past (since Exposed). It was a new Greatest Hits cd. Cd's had been taking off. It was a great time for people to get a Greatest Hits collection of KISS with old and newer songs like I Love It Loud, Lick It Up.
How long did it take Ace to get a record deal? If Eddie Trunk hadn't given him one would he have ever gotten one?
Ace was relying on Vinnie just like KISS. I mean Ace was playing "Back On The Streets". Then Ace had to rely on a Paul Stanley song. Pretty pathetic of him to record "Hide Your Heart". Ace's most known single from his comeback "Into The Night". One more song Ace didn't write just like his hit NY Groove. Then one of his singles was "Do Ya". A hit songwriting machine he was.
Where the hell you been my man?!?!?!?
Brah...it’s soooo good to see your name pop up on the boards. I couldn’t believe my eyes. I sincerely and genuinely hope all is well with you and yours. It’s so good to have you back.
Our donnybrooks are what legends are made of. The nice thing is the threads never got locked. Don’t get me wrong...those were some dogfights and we did sling a little mud here and there but we always kept a level of civility to it. Good times. Good times.
There’s a new guy on here who shall remain nameless that does remind me of you. He’s got your tenacity for sure...but none of your intelligence and style. He always has me thinking about the good ol’ days.
I tip my hat to the return of a most worthy opponent.
(Now back to our regularly scheduled program)
Nibbs commenting about me. "There’s a new guy on here who shall remain nameless that does remind me of you. He’s got your tenacity for sure."
Nibbs continued about me - "He always has me thinking about the good ol’ days."
I'm flattered that you're always thinking about me. I am the new guy and the only one that has gone back and forth as much as we have over tickets sold vs gross receipts.
- PterCriss
- Banned
- Posts: 2818
- Joined: Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:31 pm
Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?
Those 30 thousand copies were not considered sales and could make it to the cut out bin thanks to Kiss' solo albums debacle.
- nibbler1982
- Dots are People Too
- Posts: 13610
- Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2009 2:12 pm
- Location: Merrick, Strong Island
Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?
What don’t you understand about “who shall remain nameless”?PterCriss wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:43 pmThen who was the NEW guy? Tell us.nibbler1982 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:44 pmGeez...I hate to bust your bubble but the comment wasn’t about you.PterCriss wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:31 pmNibbs comments to Sphinxy - Brah...it’s soooo good to see your name pop up on the boards. I couldn’t believe my eyes.nibbler1982 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:22 pmWho was talking about you and what does Broke Back Mountain have to do with this conversation?PterCriss wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:19 pmI don't swing that way but glad my tenacity reminds you of your Broke Back Mountain days with Sphinxy. Lol.nibbler1982 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:16 pmYOOOOOOOOOOOOOO MY BROTHER SPHINXIE!!!!!!!!TheSphinx wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:53 pmI have no idea what you are talking about. The only thing I edited in that post was Invasion was the fastest selling DEBUT album. I put in debut.PterCriss wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:09 pmActually - every Kiss fan knows Crazy Nights followed Asylum not HITS like you so easy revised and inserted. We also know Vinnie lost his mind and went AWOL. So your timeline and comments should end when Vinnie went crazy.TheSphinx wrote: ↑Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:14 am
So what came next? An album that is basically demos. One that had sold so poorly, Chrysalis did a survey during the HITS tour trying to figure out why people weren't buying KISS albums. Yes, "Forever" as a $1.50 cassingle sold well but it didn't move albums.
Also you might want to include talking about Smashed Thrashes and Hits and how it sold 2 million pr 2.5 million and has Let's Put the X in Sex as a single. I don't think anyone has figured out how that album sold so much and it had nothing to do with Vinnie. By the time 1987 rolled around Vinnie was an after thought in Kiss. If anyone talked about anyone coming back it was always - when is Ace coming back, not Vinnie.
Look how bad Asylum did. You didn't see it ship platinum. They spent more money on videos trying to push that album. That one got 3 and it still didn't sell well. And because Asylum did so poorly it went to the "two year plan" on Crazy Nights. The one thing that did help KISS during the time was they began to play up the nostalgia again. The makeup times were back thanks to eXposed being released prior to CN coming out. Crazy Nights can't be looked upon as any success at all. The tour was hemorrhaging money they couldn't even afford to keep paying a keyboard player to stay on tour with them. And they had to pay Ted Nugent decent bucks to help fill some seats.
So what came next? An album that is basically demos. One that had sold so poorly, Chrysalis did a survey during the HITS tour trying to figure out why people weren't buying KISS albums. Yes, "Forever" as a $1.50 cassingle sold well but it didn't move albums.
Other people have quoted it and you can see its the same in their quotes of my post. So what are you lying about?
I've also mocked people for using Billboard's top charting #'s and length as if it proves anything when ST&H was their biggest seller but you wouldn't know that from its chart history. It's sales shouldn't have come as any big surprise. Kiss was pushing the makeup past (since Exposed). It was a new Greatest Hits cd. Cd's had been taking off. It was a great time for people to get a Greatest Hits collection of KISS with old and newer songs like I Love It Loud, Lick It Up.
How long did it take Ace to get a record deal? If Eddie Trunk hadn't given him one would he have ever gotten one?
Ace was relying on Vinnie just like KISS. I mean Ace was playing "Back On The Streets". Then Ace had to rely on a Paul Stanley song. Pretty pathetic of him to record "Hide Your Heart". Ace's most known single from his comeback "Into The Night". One more song Ace didn't write just like his hit NY Groove. Then one of his singles was "Do Ya". A hit songwriting machine he was.
Where the hell you been my man?!?!?!?
Brah...it’s soooo good to see your name pop up on the boards. I couldn’t believe my eyes. I sincerely and genuinely hope all is well with you and yours. It’s so good to have you back.
Our donnybrooks are what legends are made of. The nice thing is the threads never got locked. Don’t get me wrong...those were some dogfights and we did sling a little mud here and there but we always kept a level of civility to it. Good times. Good times.
There’s a new guy on here who shall remain nameless that does remind me of you. He’s got your tenacity for sure...but none of your intelligence and style. He always has me thinking about the good ol’ days.
I tip my hat to the return of a most worthy opponent.
(Now back to our regularly scheduled program)
Nibbs commenting about me. "There’s a new guy on here who shall remain nameless that does remind me of you. He’s got your tenacity for sure."
Nibbs continued about me - "He always has me thinking about the good ol’ days."
I'm flattered that you're always thinking about me. I am the new guy and the only one that has gone back and forth as much as we have over tickets sold vs gross receipts.
- PterCriss
- Banned
- Posts: 2818
- Joined: Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:31 pm
Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?
You made that rule so you can break it. Do you have a contract that states that you can't say who you're talking about?nibbler1982 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:47 pmWhat don’t you understand about “who shall remain nameless”?PterCriss wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:43 pmThen who was the NEW guy? Tell us.nibbler1982 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:44 pmGeez...I hate to bust your bubble but the comment wasn’t about you.PterCriss wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:31 pmNibbs comments to Sphinxy - Brah...it’s soooo good to see your name pop up on the boards. I couldn’t believe my eyes.nibbler1982 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:22 pmWho was talking about you and what does Broke Back Mountain have to do with this conversation?PterCriss wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:19 pmI don't swing that way but glad my tenacity reminds you of your Broke Back Mountain days with Sphinxy. Lol.nibbler1982 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:16 pmYOOOOOOOOOOOOOO MY BROTHER SPHINXIE!!!!!!!!TheSphinx wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:53 pmI have no idea what you are talking about. The only thing I edited in that post was Invasion was the fastest selling DEBUT album. I put in debut.PterCriss wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:09 pm Actually - every Kiss fan knows Crazy Nights followed Asylum not HITS like you so easy revised and inserted. We also know Vinnie lost his mind and went AWOL. So your timeline and comments should end when Vinnie went crazy.
Also you might want to include talking about Smashed Thrashes and Hits and how it sold 2 million pr 2.5 million and has Let's Put the X in Sex as a single. I don't think anyone has figured out how that album sold so much and it had nothing to do with Vinnie. By the time 1987 rolled around Vinnie was an after thought in Kiss. If anyone talked about anyone coming back it was always - when is Ace coming back, not Vinnie.
Look how bad Asylum did. You didn't see it ship platinum. They spent more money on videos trying to push that album. That one got 3 and it still didn't sell well. And because Asylum did so poorly it went to the "two year plan" on Crazy Nights. The one thing that did help KISS during the time was they began to play up the nostalgia again. The makeup times were back thanks to eXposed being released prior to CN coming out. Crazy Nights can't be looked upon as any success at all. The tour was hemorrhaging money they couldn't even afford to keep paying a keyboard player to stay on tour with them. And they had to pay Ted Nugent decent bucks to help fill some seats.
So what came next? An album that is basically demos. One that had sold so poorly, Chrysalis did a survey during the HITS tour trying to figure out why people weren't buying KISS albums. Yes, "Forever" as a $1.50 cassingle sold well but it didn't move albums.
Other people have quoted it and you can see its the same in their quotes of my post. So what are you lying about?
I've also mocked people for using Billboard's top charting #'s and length as if it proves anything when ST&H was their biggest seller but you wouldn't know that from its chart history. It's sales shouldn't have come as any big surprise. Kiss was pushing the makeup past (since Exposed). It was a new Greatest Hits cd. Cd's had been taking off. It was a great time for people to get a Greatest Hits collection of KISS with old and newer songs like I Love It Loud, Lick It Up.
How long did it take Ace to get a record deal? If Eddie Trunk hadn't given him one would he have ever gotten one?
Ace was relying on Vinnie just like KISS. I mean Ace was playing "Back On The Streets". Then Ace had to rely on a Paul Stanley song. Pretty pathetic of him to record "Hide Your Heart". Ace's most known single from his comeback "Into The Night". One more song Ace didn't write just like his hit NY Groove. Then one of his singles was "Do Ya". A hit songwriting machine he was.
Where the hell you been my man?!?!?!?
Brah...it’s soooo good to see your name pop up on the boards. I couldn’t believe my eyes. I sincerely and genuinely hope all is well with you and yours. It’s so good to have you back.
Our donnybrooks are what legends are made of. The nice thing is the threads never got locked. Don’t get me wrong...those were some dogfights and we did sling a little mud here and there but we always kept a level of civility to it. Good times. Good times.
There’s a new guy on here who shall remain nameless that does remind me of you. He’s got your tenacity for sure...but none of your intelligence and style. He always has me thinking about the good ol’ days.
I tip my hat to the return of a most worthy opponent.
(Now back to our regularly scheduled program)
Nibbs commenting about me. "There’s a new guy on here who shall remain nameless that does remind me of you. He’s got your tenacity for sure."
Nibbs continued about me - "He always has me thinking about the good ol’ days."
I'm flattered that you're always thinking about me. I am the new guy and the only one that has gone back and forth as much as we have over tickets sold vs gross receipts.
I understand you were talking about me. You just didn't think I would call you out. Now you have a Oh, shit moment.
What's that line in an Elvis song...... Don't you know I'm caught in a trap, I can't walk out...