The ultimate KISS guitarist?

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The ultimate KISS guitarist?

Post by BC Witch » Fri Jun 07, 2019 1:39 pm

Was just watching this clip of Meat Loaf live in 1987 with Bob Kulick on guitar and noticed that he's in 'ultimate KISS guitarist' mode, i.e. he's playing a Vinnie Vincent guitar, wearing an Ace Frehley strap and, well, he's Bob Kulick!

Also, that's Steve Buslowe on bass who played on Paul's 78 solo LP.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-aavkTiXIc

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Re: The ultimate KISS guitarist?

Post by battra » Fri Jun 07, 2019 1:43 pm

Well.

that was horrific.

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Re: The ultimate KISS guitarist?

Post by ashorama » Fri Jun 07, 2019 1:49 pm

That's a Randy Rhoads model not VV.

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Re: The ultimate KISS guitarist?

Post by sneed78 » Fri Jun 07, 2019 2:16 pm

Bob’s just missing the infamous LIU/Animalize wig...

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Re: The ultimate KISS guitarist?

Post by BC Witch » Fri Jun 07, 2019 2:22 pm

ashorama wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 1:49 pm
That's a Randy Rhoads model not VV.
Yes, it was designed with Randy and was going to be his Jackson signature guitar but he died before it came out as a production model. Grover Jackson met VV when he had just joined KISS and offered the guitar design to him to use. VV was the first guitarist to use this model publicly and helped launch the design, which was initially known as the Sharkfin, not the Randy Rhoads- that name came later on.

Being a KISS fan back in 1982 I always think of this shape as the VV guitar.

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Re: The ultimate KISS guitarist?

Post by Black Ace » Fri Jun 07, 2019 2:24 pm

Great footage. Love me some Meat Loaf!

Ha! Bob rocking the sexual deviant stache.

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Re: The ultimate KISS guitarist?

Post by ashorama » Fri Jun 07, 2019 2:45 pm

BC Witch wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 2:22 pm
ashorama wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 1:49 pm
That's a Randy Rhoads model not VV.
Yes, it was designed with Randy and was going to be his Jackson signature guitar but he died before it came out as a production model. Grover Jackson met VV when he had just joined KISS and offered the guitar design to him to use. VV was the first guitarist to use this model publicly and helped launch the design, which was initially known as the Sharkfin, not the Randy Rhoads- that name came later on.

Being a KISS fan back in 1982 I always think of this shape as the VV guitar.
Randy was playing this guitar live before he died. Loads of pics online.

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Re: The ultimate KISS guitarist?

Post by BC Witch » Fri Jun 07, 2019 3:02 pm

ashorama wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 2:45 pm
BC Witch wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 2:22 pm
ashorama wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 1:49 pm
That's a Randy Rhoads model not VV.
Yes, it was designed with Randy and was going to be his Jackson signature guitar but he died before it came out as a production model. Grover Jackson met VV when he had just joined KISS and offered the guitar design to him to use. VV was the first guitarist to use this model publicly and helped launch the design, which was initially known as the Sharkfin, not the Randy Rhoads- that name came later on.

Being a KISS fan back in 1982 I always think of this shape as the VV guitar.
Randy was playing this guitar live before he died. Loads of pics online.
With respect, Randy was definitely pictured playing the first version of the Sharkfin design with the more rounded back end but I never saw a photo back then of him with this guitar, though I'm not saying he never played it on stage. There may be plenty of pics online today but I never saw him in any photos with this version of the guitar back when he was alive and it certainly wasn't known as the Randy Rhoads model like it is today.

I remember the press around VV joining KISS mentioning that Grover Jackson had specifically asked VV to play that guitar and launch it to the public, hence I always think of it as the VV guitar.

EDIT: From the KISSfandom website...

Starting in 1982, Vincent was briefly the spokesman for Charvel/Jackson Guitars, following the death of Randy Rhoads. He later switched to a more personalized pink "double shark fin" guitar, which he helped design along with Grover Jackson. Vincent later became a spokesman for Carvin Guitars.

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Re: The ultimate KISS guitarist?

Post by nfarend » Fri Jun 07, 2019 3:29 pm

It's Randy Rhoads' model. Here he is playing the black one which is an improved version of the white one on the left, the Concord.
F#ck VV.
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Re: The ultimate KISS guitarist?

Post by BC Witch » Fri Jun 07, 2019 3:44 pm

nfarend wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 3:29 pm
It's Randy Rhoads' model. Here he is playing the black one which is an improved version of the white one on the left, the Concord.
F#ck VV.
Hey, c'mon! My original post was meant in fun. :mrgreen:

I'm fully aware that Randy designed that guitar with Grover Jackson but it WAS originally launched as a production model with Vinnie playing it and associated with/promoting the shape.

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Re: The ultimate KISS guitarist?

Post by Forevertj » Fri Jun 07, 2019 5:46 pm

Don't let your meat loaf.

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Re: The ultimate KISS guitarist?

Post by Thunderous_Lay » Fri Jun 07, 2019 5:48 pm

Doin' it in the market, doin' it in the mall
Doin' it in the bushes and the high school hall
Doin' it in the alley, doin' it for free
Now they're doin' it baby on MTV

Doin' it in the backseat, doin' it on the streets
Doin' it in the grandstand, just dancin' on the seats
Doin' it in the movies, doin' it on the train
Doin' it mile high in a big jet plane


The Neverland Express was awesome back then; Chuck Burgi really kicked all kinds of backside.

And the Goff sisters...


Or click here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4MFxcFofkY

That's Bob, Bruce and Buslowe on tour with Meat Loaf, back in 1977.

With Steinman, too.

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Re: The ultimate KISS guitarist?

Post by Nately120 » Fri Jun 07, 2019 5:50 pm

I thought we were going to Fronkenstein the ultimate KISS guitarist together out of parts of the prior ones. How about Ace's sobriety, Tommy's charisma, Vinnie's sanity, and Bruce's Beetlejuice jacket?

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Re: The ultimate KISS guitarist?

Post by BC Witch » Sat Jun 08, 2019 5:44 am

Thunderous_Lay wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 5:48 pm
Doin' it in the market, doin' it in the mall
Doin' it in the bushes and the high school hall
Doin' it in the alley, doin' it for free
Now they're doin' it baby on MTV

Doin' it in the backseat, doin' it on the streets
Doin' it in the grandstand, just dancin' on the seats
Doin' it in the movies, doin' it on the train
Doin' it mile high in a big jet plane


The Neverland Express was awesome back then; Chuck Burgi really kicked all kinds of backside.

And the Goff sisters...


Or click here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4MFxcFofkY

That's Bob, Bruce and Buslowe on tour with Meat Loaf, back in 1977.

With Steinman, too.
It's just occurred to me that this would be right around the time they were recording Paul's solo LP. Imagine the in-studio conversations!

Paul: Hey what are you guys up to after we're done recording this LP? Which, by the way, judging from how popular my band is, will probably sell MILLIONS!

Bob: Well, we're touring with this guy Meat Loaf.

Paul: Who?

Steve: He's signed to a small label that's a subsidiary of CBS.

Bob: Yeah, he's kind of popular in the UK and Australia... I think it could do quite well.

Paul: Yeah, whatever...

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Re: The ultimate KISS guitarist?

Post by richardsimmons » Sat Jun 08, 2019 6:29 am

Definitely opened this thinking it’d be a really cool story about Ace in 1973 or something.

Yawn.

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Re: The ultimate KISS guitarist?

Post by BC Witch » Sat Jun 08, 2019 3:00 pm

richardsimmons wrote:
Sat Jun 08, 2019 6:29 am
Definitely opened this thinking it’d be a really cool story about Ace in 1973 or something.

Yawn.
I thought it was actually pretty fascinating to see one KISS guitarist using signature gear of two other KISS guitarists...

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Re: The ultimate KISS guitarist?

Post by LordThurisaz » Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:02 pm

Bob's RRV is awesome. Wonder if he still has it.

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Re: The ultimate KISS guitarist?

Post by LordThurisaz » Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:03 pm

BC Witch wrote:
Sat Jun 08, 2019 3:00 pm
richardsimmons wrote:
Sat Jun 08, 2019 6:29 am
Definitely opened this thinking it’d be a really cool story about Ace in 1973 or something.

Yawn.
I thought it was actually pretty fascinating to see one KISS guitarist using signature gear of two other KISS guitarists...
One other KISS guitarist.

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Re: The ultimate KISS guitarist?

Post by PUNCHLINE » Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:12 am

Id rather sit and watch the ..Rock Hard , X In Sex then the I videos all in rotation daily with my genitals dipped in battery acid than have to sit and watch any part of that video again lol.

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Re: The ultimate KISS guitarist?

Post by Thunderous_Lay » Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:09 am

BC Witch wrote:
Sat Jun 08, 2019 5:44 am
* snip *
lol, that's some funny headcanon but truth be told, they were already touring with Meat Loaf.

He was actually interviewed about it, a few years back.
KissFAQ: Steve, wheat do you recall about getting the offer to play on Paul Stanley's solo album?

Steve Buslowe: I was pretty excited about it. I got the introduction through Bob Kulick, with whom I had been working with. We were touring with Meat Loaf at the time. Obviously Bob and Paul go back a long way and I guess Paul started doing some demos. And I can't remember if there was another bass player involved or not but somehow Bob recommended me to come and play for the original demos that we did at Electric Lady.
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/s ... clnk&gl=pt

( PS: the site is not loading properly for some reason. Not sure if the domain is about to expire or already expired. )

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Re: The ultimate KISS guitarist?

Post by BC Witch » Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:15 am

LordThurisaz wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:03 pm
BC Witch wrote:
Sat Jun 08, 2019 3:00 pm
richardsimmons wrote:
Sat Jun 08, 2019 6:29 am
Definitely opened this thinking it’d be a really cool story about Ace in 1973 or something.

Yawn.
I thought it was actually pretty fascinating to see one KISS guitarist using signature gear of two other KISS guitarists...
One other KISS guitarist.
But he's using the VV guitar and Ace strap. Yes, I know all about how Randy designed that guitar but at the time it came out VV was the spokesperson for the shape and he was the first person to be widely seen using it. I remember it from the time. Grover Jackson approached him to use the shape as Randy had already passed away. Randy was pictured on stage using the first more rounded design (which I believe he called 'the Concord') but as far as I can see he was only pictured with the 2nd 'sharkfin' design at home/in the studio.

When VV toured with KISS on the Creatures tour that guitar was not known as the 'RR' model, it was the 'Jackson Sharkfin' and associated with Vinnie Vincent.

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Re: The ultimate KISS guitarist?

Post by Wichita77 » Tue Jun 11, 2019 6:00 am

BC Witch wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 2:22 pm

Being a KISS fan back in 1982 I always think of this shape as the VV guitar.
Being a KISS fan back in 1977 I always think of this shape as the RR guitar.


Having seen the great Randy Rhoads live just months before he died, I won't even speak his name in the same sentence as .... well, that other guy.

No offense to VV fans, but I never have seen him anywhere close to being on the same level as ... well, you know who.

To the OP, I do think this is an interesting post however, and wonder if Bob wasn't trying to make a statement about his KISS days with that guitar and strap choice. To find out, I messaged Bob on his Facebook page. If he answers I'll give you an update!

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Re: The ultimate KISS guitarist?

Post by BC Witch » Tue Jun 11, 2019 6:09 am

Yes, Randy (who is probably my favourite guitarist ever) was in a different league to everyone I think!

I do love VV's OTT playing for what it is and always think of this guitar as his 'model' as he was the first person I ever saw with one back in '82 or whenever he started playing it.

Would love to hear what Bob says!

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Re: The ultimate KISS guitarist?

Post by LordThurisaz » Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:24 am

BC Witch wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:15 am
LordThurisaz wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:03 pm
BC Witch wrote:
Sat Jun 08, 2019 3:00 pm
richardsimmons wrote:
Sat Jun 08, 2019 6:29 am
Definitely opened this thinking it’d be a really cool story about Ace in 1973 or something.

Yawn.
I thought it was actually pretty fascinating to see one KISS guitarist using signature gear of two other KISS guitarists...
One other KISS guitarist.
But he's using the VV guitar and Ace strap. Yes, I know all about how Randy designed that guitar but at the time it came out VV was the spokesperson for the shape and he was the first person to be widely seen using it. I remember it from the time. Grover Jackson approached him to use the shape as Randy had already passed away. Randy was pictured on stage using the first more rounded design (which I believe he called 'the Concord') but as far as I can see he was only pictured with the 2nd 'sharkfin' design at home/in the studio.

When VV toured with KISS on the Creatures tour that guitar was not known as the 'RR' model, it was the 'Jackson Sharkfin' and associated with Vinnie Vincent.
RRV.

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Re: The ultimate KISS guitarist?

Post by Bruce » Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:00 am

Bob Kulick Reminisces About His Days With Meat Loaf:
https://noisecreep.com/bob-kulick-meat-loaf-days/

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Re: The ultimate KISS guitarist?

Post by Soylent Gene » Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:16 am

Mark Cicchini on lead vocals.

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Re: The ultimate KISS guitarist?

Post by His Majesty » Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:32 am

Close the thread.


Image

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Re: The ultimate KISS guitarist?

Post by battra » Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:49 am

ashorama wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 1:49 pm
That's a Randy Rhoads model not VV.
Didn't VV play Randy models?

I thought that's the only Jackson V that existed at the time.

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Re: The ultimate KISS guitarist?

Post by battra » Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:52 am

ashorama wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 2:45 pm
BC Witch wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 2:22 pm
ashorama wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 1:49 pm
That's a Randy Rhoads model not VV.
Yes, it was designed with Randy and was going to be his Jackson signature guitar but he died before it came out as a production model. Grover Jackson met VV when he had just joined KISS and offered the guitar design to him to use. VV was the first guitarist to use this model publicly and helped launch the design, which was initially known as the Sharkfin, not the Randy Rhoads- that name came later on.

Being a KISS fan back in 1982 I always think of this shape as the VV guitar.
Randy was playing this guitar live before he died. Loads of pics online.
Randy's white Jackson had tuxedo inlays.

Image

But here's his black one...

Shark Fins and the well known Jackson shape.

Image

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Re: The ultimate KISS guitarist?

Post by His Majesty » Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:53 am

battra wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:49 am
ashorama wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 1:49 pm
That's a Randy Rhoads model not VV.
Didn't VV play Randy models?

I thought that's the only Jackson V that existed at the time.
Randy Rhoads saved Vinnie.

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Re: The ultimate KISS guitarist?

Post by battra » Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:57 am

His Majesty wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:53 am
battra wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:49 am
ashorama wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 1:49 pm
That's a Randy Rhoads model not VV.
Didn't VV play Randy models?

I thought that's the only Jackson V that existed at the time.
Randy Rhoads saved Vinnie.
Randy Rhoads saved Jackson.

But that's not funny.

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Re: The ultimate KISS guitarist?

Post by BC Witch » Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:39 am

battra wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:52 am
ashorama wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 2:45 pm
BC Witch wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 2:22 pm
ashorama wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 1:49 pm
That's a Randy Rhoads model not VV.
Yes, it was designed with Randy and was going to be his Jackson signature guitar but he died before it came out as a production model. Grover Jackson met VV when he had just joined KISS and offered the guitar design to him to use. VV was the first guitarist to use this model publicly and helped launch the design, which was initially known as the Sharkfin, not the Randy Rhoads- that name came later on.

Being a KISS fan back in 1982 I always think of this shape as the VV guitar.
Randy was playing this guitar live before he died. Loads of pics online.
Randy's white Jackson had tuxedo inlays.

Image

But here's his black one...

Shark Fins and the well known Jackson shape.

Image
Wow! That second pic is great! I've never seen Randy using the black one on stage before.

When I started this thread, it was really just a fun bit of 'look at this!' and it now has kind of turned into a 'that's not a VV guitar' thing but at the time of 'Creatures' the guitar WAS widely associated with VV not RR.

Also it was apparently the first guitar to bear the name 'Jackson' as opposed to 'Charvel'.

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Re: The ultimate KISS guitarist?

Post by battra » Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:08 am

BC Witch wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:39 am
battra wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:52 am
ashorama wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 2:45 pm
BC Witch wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 2:22 pm
ashorama wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 1:49 pm
That's a Randy Rhoads model not VV.
Yes, it was designed with Randy and was going to be his Jackson signature guitar but he died before it came out as a production model. Grover Jackson met VV when he had just joined KISS and offered the guitar design to him to use. VV was the first guitarist to use this model publicly and helped launch the design, which was initially known as the Sharkfin, not the Randy Rhoads- that name came later on.

Being a KISS fan back in 1982 I always think of this shape as the VV guitar.
Randy was playing this guitar live before he died. Loads of pics online.
Randy's white Jackson had tuxedo inlays.

Image

But here's his black one...

Shark Fins and the well known Jackson shape.

Image
Wow! That second pic is great! I've never seen Randy using the black one on stage before.

When I started this thread, it was really just a fun bit of 'look at this!' and it now has kind of turned into a 'that's not a VV guitar' thing but at the time of 'Creatures' the guitar WAS widely associated with VV not RR.

Also it was apparently the first guitar to bear the name 'Jackson' as opposed to 'Charvel'.
This is the internet and there are a great number of people will need to win an argument where there isn't one to even be had....so that's how this went from a VV guitar to a RR guitar...and I knew full well what you meant.

Vinnie was the first high profile guitarist to use that shape.

As for the Black Guitar in the photo...

I ONLY know of its existence due to having a read a book on Randy's life. He received it shortly before dying...a matter of a couple months between receiving it and the plane crash.

Regardless, this is a fun thread and I hope it continues!

Preferably with more dick measuring about nothing.

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Re: The ultimate KISS guitarist?

Post by LordThurisaz » Wed Jun 12, 2019 7:28 am

Sorry. But Randy is much higher profile and used it first, so... yeah.

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Re: The ultimate KISS guitarist?

Post by BC Witch » Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:02 am

LordThurisaz wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 7:28 am
Sorry. But Randy is much higher profile and used it first, so... yeah.
But I'm not arguing about who used it first. That was Randy, 100%. All I'm saying is that way back in 1982 when this guitar came into the public consciousness it was because the guitarist in KISS was using it. It wasn't marketing as the 'Randy Rhoads' guitar AT THE TIME but WAS marketing as 'used by Vinnie Vincent'. That's just what happened.

And my original post just meant to be for fun, y'know...

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Re: The ultimate KISS guitarist?

Post by BC Witch » Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:05 am

battra wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:08 am
BC Witch wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:39 am
battra wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:52 am
ashorama wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 2:45 pm
BC Witch wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 2:22 pm
ashorama wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 1:49 pm
That's a Randy Rhoads model not VV.
Yes, it was designed with Randy and was going to be his Jackson signature guitar but he died before it came out as a production model. Grover Jackson met VV when he had just joined KISS and offered the guitar design to him to use. VV was the first guitarist to use this model publicly and helped launch the design, which was initially known as the Sharkfin, not the Randy Rhoads- that name came later on.

Being a KISS fan back in 1982 I always think of this shape as the VV guitar.
Randy was playing this guitar live before he died. Loads of pics online.
Randy's white Jackson had tuxedo inlays.

Image

But here's his black one...

Shark Fins and the well known Jackson shape.

Image
Wow! That second pic is great! I've never seen Randy using the black one on stage before.

When I started this thread, it was really just a fun bit of 'look at this!' and it now has kind of turned into a 'that's not a VV guitar' thing but at the time of 'Creatures' the guitar WAS widely associated with VV not RR.

Also it was apparently the first guitar to bear the name 'Jackson' as opposed to 'Charvel'.
This is the internet and there are a great number of people will need to win an argument where there isn't one to even be had....so that's how this went from a VV guitar to a RR guitar...and I knew full well what you meant.

Vinnie was the first high profile guitarist to use that shape.

As for the Black Guitar in the photo...

I ONLY know of its existence due to having a read a book on Randy's life. He received it shortly before dying...a matter of a couple months between receiving it and the plane crash.

Regardless, this is a fun thread and I hope it continues!

Preferably with more dick measuring about nothing.
Sorry, I hope you don't think I was having a go at you, I wasn't at all.

I'm actually learning so much about the history of this guitar now I may even start a page about it.

I find it interesting that the black one doesn't have the vibrato bar on it. By the time VV started playing the shape it was fully Floyd-ed up.

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LordThurisaz
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Re: The ultimate KISS guitarist?

Post by LordThurisaz » Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:06 am

Yes, because tons of people knew Vinnie used on two tours that struggled to fill up venues. :roll:

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battra
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Re: The ultimate KISS guitarist?

Post by battra » Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:22 am

BC Witch wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:05 am
Sorry, I hope you don't think I was having a go at you, I wasn't at all.

I'm actually learning so much about the history of this guitar now I may even start a page about it.

I find it interesting that the black one doesn't have the vibrato bar on it. By the time VV started playing the shape it was fully Floyd-ed up.
Oh certainly not.

I was having a go at the folks who were being silly about it. :)

I think it's more accurate to say AT THE TIME that Vinnie was the highest profile player to use that shape.

Lick It Up was on MTV...and had a video you see.

There wasn't a single music video featuring Randy Rhoads during his lifetime.

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Sonny Crocket
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Re: The ultimate KISS guitarist?

Post by Sonny Crocket » Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:05 am

Forevertj wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 5:46 pm
Don't let your meat loaf.
hurr hurr hurr

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BC Witch
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Re: The ultimate KISS guitarist?

Post by BC Witch » Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:23 am

LordThurisaz wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:06 am
Yes, because tons of people knew Vinnie used on two tours that struggled to fill up venues. :roll:
I really don't know what your issue is here? I'm not offering an opinion on who was most associated with the guitar when it came out, I'm simply saying what happened. RR designed it and used it for a few gigs (maybe even just one) before he tragically passed away. Grover Jackson approached Vinnie Vincent to play the guitar and launch it to the public which is what VV did. The first most people saw of the guitar around the world was when VV (in make up) was pictured with it in all the metal magazines and then used it in the Lick It Up video. It wasn't even a production model when Vinnie was using it, so therefore, AT THE TIME it was seen as the VV guitar.

Check out this piece in Kerrang! from the time where it says all this stuff...
VV RR guitar Kerrang!.jpg
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