New EOTR Boxscores

[Evo999]

Yeah, I don't like it. I get it that they are trying to squeeze out the scalpers but they really kick the long time fans who want to get good seats early.

Digital/tech is great but it's screwing up many aspects of the music business. I'm not clinking glasses over it, but Nibbs was called out for suggesting it, and it turns out, he was right.

[nibbler1982]

I'm conducting my own little experiment to see how much disparity there is between pre-show average ticket price vs. reported gross average ticket price. Right now, the lowest priced ticket in Charleston is $119.50 (before fees). I also did some dot counting for the first 3 rows (but only 3 rows...I bailed out from boredom after that, lol), and theres a potential for $125,000 gross, just for those 3 rows! So, when the final tally eventually gets reported, I'll be taking these things into consideration when determining how papered this show will be

It’s a potential $108,000...but like you said in another post, you should leave it to the experts.

That is if all those seats were made available to the public. More than likely there are some high end comps in there too.

Also factor in the $59.50, $74.50, and $94.50 seats that are under the $119.50 tickets you already mentioned. Speaking of factoring in...

How the heck are you gonna come up with a “pre-show average ticket price”?

How are you gonna figure out how many tickets there are in each price tier?

I study pre show sales pretty vigorously. I’m extremely intrigued to your methods and ultimately what number you’re finally gonna arrive upon for Charleston’s pre show average.

Keep us posted.

First, I'm not really gonna do a deep dive into any show, much less Charleston. I was just gonna multiply the number of tickets sold by $119.50, and hazard a guess that figure will be in the neighborhood of the actual gross, all those $200-1000 premium seat sales notwithstanding.

Second, "dynamic pricing" is just a fancier way to say "legalized scalping", so no shit that Kiss, or any band participating, will see an increase in ticket revenue. The fact tho, that anyone outside of the industry would actually be clinking champagne glasses over it, well that's quite the head-scratcher.

And you come up with "pre show avg ticket price" by simply taking a look at all the price tiers per section shortly after tix go on sale, assume the promoter will be successful in extracting every nickel out of those amounts, then do the math. At the end of the day, it's just like, well, counting dots. We both know it could be done, but only one of us have the time for it...

Oh...I get it now. It was just a threat of taking the time to do some due diligence and actually knowing what you were talking about. Even thought you had no intention of making good on said threat. You would rather remain in the dark but still shoot off at the mouth anyway.

Yup...definitely your modus operandi. Why change now.

[Phyllis Simmons]

Yeah, I don't like it. I get it that they are trying to squeeze out the scalpers but they really kick the long time fans who want to get good seats early.

Digital/tech is great but it's screwing up many aspects of the music business. I'm not clinking glasses over it, but Nibbs was called out for suggesting it, and it turns out, he was right.

I dont find a lot of this all that interesting as a subject; the new concert game and all.. But the notion of the fleecing of the earlybirds is pretty disgraceful. at its core..
5 sitting in a row coughed up their $750, and the next group of 5 next to them waited and coughed up their $250 for the exact same seats. Not sure how long people will be prepared to put up with that model... But like a lot of things in the current concert game, nobody seems to notice, nobody seems to care..

[nibbler1982]

Yeah, I don't like it. I get it that they are trying to squeeze out the scalpers but they really kick the long time fans who want to get good seats early.

Digital/tech is great but it's screwing up many aspects of the music business. I'm not clinking glasses over it, but Nibbs was called out for suggesting it, and it turns out, he was right.

I dont find a lot of this all that interesting as a subject; the new concert game and all.. But the notion of the fleecing of the earlybirds is pretty disgraceful. at its core..
5 sitting in a row coughed up their $750, and the next group of 5 next to them waited and coughed up their $250 for the exact same seats. Not sure how long people will be prepared to put up with that model... But like a lot of things in the current concert game, nobody seems to notice, nobody seems to care..

If those tickets are gonna be sold at $750 either way, who do you believe has a better claim on the money?

The band or the ticket broker?

The higher price tickets take the broker out of play. No resale value.

“Not sure how long people will be prepared to put up with that model”???

If the seats don’t move the price will come down accordingly, set by the buying public.

[KF73]

I'm conducting my own little experiment to see how much disparity there is between pre-show average ticket price vs. reported gross average ticket price. Right now, the lowest priced ticket in Charleston is $119.50 (before fees). I also did some dot counting for the first 3 rows (but only 3 rows...I bailed out from boredom after that, lol), and theres a potential for $125,000 gross, just for those 3 rows! So, when the final tally eventually gets reported, I'll be taking these things into consideration when determining how papered this show will be

Charleston is actually selling relatively well compared to some the dogs of the 2nd US leg. I imagine once the inevitable prices drops come closer to show time the floor seats will disappear and that place looks full. We'll be their regardless (coming up from FL).

[Vandelay Industries]

Yeah, I don't like it. I get it that they are trying to squeeze out the scalpers but they really kick the long time fans who want to get good seats early.

Digital/tech is great but it's screwing up many aspects of the music business. I'm not clinking glasses over it, but Nibbs was called out for suggesting it, and it turns out, he was right.

I dont find a lot of this all that interesting as a subject; the new concert game and all.. But the notion of the fleecing of the earlybirds is pretty disgraceful. at its core..
5 sitting in a row coughed up their $750, and the next group of 5 next to them waited and coughed up their $250 for the exact same seats. Not sure how long people will be prepared to put up with that model... But like a lot of things in the current concert game, nobody seems to notice, nobody seems to care..

I think more people will care once they notice, lol...

For many folks who don't comb through message boards and music sites, I honestly think they haven't caught on to the legalized scalping (let's call it what it is) model yet, thinking the day 1 prices are set in stone. Once everyone catches on and is brought up to speed, it'll be interesting to see how the game is played. I don't even bother checking for tickets anymore til the last minute, unless it's an act that doesn't participate in price gouging...those are usually the tougher tickets to get, because they DO reward the early birds.

[Evo999]

I'm conducting my own little experiment to see how much disparity there is between pre-show average ticket price vs. reported gross average ticket price. Right now, the lowest priced ticket in Charleston is $119.50 (before fees). I also did some dot counting for the first 3 rows (but only 3 rows...I bailed out from boredom after that, lol), and theres a potential for $125,000 gross, just for those 3 rows! So, when the final tally eventually gets reported, I'll be taking these things into consideration when determining how papered this show will be

Charleston is actually selling relatively well compared to some the dogs of the 2nd US leg. I imagine once the inevitable prices drops come closer to show time the floor seats will disappear and that place looks full. We'll be their regardless (coming up from FL).

Toronto and Montreal are very well sold as well. Toronto looks like it will sell out again based on what sold already and Montreal probably close as well.

[KF73]

For many folks who don't comb through message boards and music sites, I honestly think they haven't caught on to the legalized scalping (let's call it what it is) model yet, thinking the day 1 prices are set in stone. Once everyone catches on and is brought up to speed, it'll be interesting to see how the game is played. I don't even bother checking for tickets anymore til the last minute, unless it's an act that doesn't participate in price gouging...those are usually the tougher tickets to get, because they DO reward the early birds.

VERY smart move... I haven't been bitten by this yet and it worked for the Jacksonville EOTR road in April. In the past it used to be more of a gamble. I start checking things out usually a few weeks out and if something good pops I may take them based on what's left. If there is a lot of availability I usually wait until a few days before. Stub Hub squatting from the cheap seats is another good method if you are really into gambling! Always check right at curtain to see what's left!

[BlackDiamond67]

I'm conducting my own little experiment to see how much disparity there is between pre-show average ticket price vs. reported gross average ticket price. Right now, the lowest priced ticket in Charleston is $119.50 (before fees). I also did some dot counting for the first 3 rows (but only 3 rows...I bailed out from boredom after that, lol), and theres a potential for $125,000 gross, just for those 3 rows! So, when the final tally eventually gets reported, I'll be taking these things into consideration when determining how papered this show will be

Charleston is actually selling relatively well compared to some the dogs of the 2nd US leg. I imagine once the inevitable prices drops come closer to show time the floor seats will disappear and that place looks full. We'll be their regardless (coming up from FL).

I’m front row in Charleston (and Charlotte and Virginia Beach).
Can’t wait!

[nibbler1982]

I'm conducting my own little experiment to see how much disparity there is between pre-show average ticket price vs. reported gross average ticket price. Right now, the lowest priced ticket in Charleston is $119.50 (before fees). I also did some dot counting for the first 3 rows (but only 3 rows...I bailed out from boredom after that, lol), and theres a potential for $125,000 gross, just for those 3 rows! So, when the final tally eventually gets reported, I'll be taking these things into consideration when determining how papered this show will be

Charleston is actually selling relatively well compared to some the dogs of the 2nd US leg. I imagine once the inevitable prices drops come closer to show time the floor seats will disappear and that place looks full. We'll be their regardless (coming up from FL).

I’m front row in Charleston (and Charlotte and Virginia Beach).
Can’t wait!

Charleston looks solid.

[Admin]

3/6/2019 - Denny Sanford Premier Center, Sioux Falls, SD
Reported audience: 9,284 / 10,458 (88.77%)
Reported gross: $948,546

3/9/2019 - Van Andel Arena, Grand Rapids, MI
Reported audience: 10,553 **SOLD-OUT
Reported gross: $1,257,123

3/10/2019 - TaxSlayer Center, Moline, IL
Reported audience: 9,599 **SOLD-OUT
Reported gross: $1,038,855

[BeholderFan]

I personally think "dynamic pricing" or whatever is a bunch of garbage. Look, I GET why artists do it, but it is so anti-consumer. Like someone here said, it punishes the early birds who want to get good seats. What happens later when someone waits until maybe the day of the show, or whatever, and buys a ticket in the SAME ROW for way less, because Ticketmaster wants to sell it just to sell it? I just don't think that is fair at all to the early bird fan who originally purchased the higher price. You know. like the person who talked about the $750 KISS ticket being sold for $250 on the day of the show. I would feel ripped off if I had a $750 dollar seat, and I had found out that a person in the SAME ROW and SAME SECTION paid just $250 bucks. I would have wondered why I had to pay an extra $500 bucks more?

[nibbler1982]

So we’re just down Toronto?

[nibbler1982]

I personally think "dynamic pricing" or whatever is a bunch of garbage. Look, I GET why artists do it, but it is so anti-consumer. Like someone here said, it punishes the early birds who want to get good seats. What happens later when someone waits until maybe the day of the show, or whatever, and buys a ticket in the SAME ROW for way less, because Ticketmaster wants to sell it just to sell it? I just don't think that is fair at all to the early bird fan who originally purchased the higher price. You know. like the person who talked about the $750 KISS ticket being sold for $250 on the day of the show. I would feel ripped off if I had a $750 dollar seat, and I had found out that a person in the SAME ROW and SAME SECTION paid just $250 bucks. I would have wondered why I had to pay an extra $500 bucks more?

The reason why you had to pay an extra $500 was to assure you got the premium seat you wanted.

If that premium seat wasn’t worth you paying for that assurance then you don’t pay it and take your chances.

Nobody gets ripped off.

[Vandelay Industries]

I personally think "dynamic pricing" or whatever is a bunch of garbage. Look, I GET why artists do it, but it is so anti-consumer. Like someone here said, it punishes the early birds who want to get good seats. What happens later when someone waits until maybe the day of the show, or whatever, and buys a ticket in the SAME ROW for way less, because Ticketmaster wants to sell it just to sell it? I just don't think that is fair at all to the early bird fan who originally purchased the higher price. You know. like the person who talked about the $750 KISS ticket being sold for $250 on the day of the show. I would feel ripped off if I had a $750 dollar seat, and I had found out that a person in the SAME ROW and SAME SECTION paid just $250 bucks. I would have wondered why I had to pay an extra $500 bucks more?

Scalping in plain sight, that's what it is. I think right now, many people are still naive to "dynamic pricing", so in a few years I'm curious to see how the mainstream ultimately responds to it.

Many businesses understand that "spillage" goes with the territory...yet unfortunately, when it comes to the music and entertainment biz, they think the answer to stopping a nickel from rolling out the door is to find new ways to screw their customers...

[Much Too Soon]

Anyone that has purchased a KISS EOTR ticket with a gun at their back... please speak up.

Anyone......

[Vandelay Industries]

First: Gun at their back? Shit, the Much Too Soons of the board wouldn't need a gun to their back, they'd happily pay more if they could....y'know, to help with all the "winning" they crow about

Second: Also, it's pretty obvious the Much Too Soons of the board are great at talking the talk, but not so much at walking the walk. Bullshit that you don't read anything by the users you'd supposedly blocked...and the more you continue to keep claiming otherwise, the more you come off as a wishy-washy dolt.

[Wichita77]

Personally, I wouldn't be the least bit upset if I paid $500 for a seat and found out that the person next to me paid way less on the day of. They took a chance hoping they'd get a good ticket, and it paid off! Good for them. I decided not to risk it, and knew I'd get a good ticket. Good for me.

Before dynamic pricing, I could never get a good seat by the luck of the draw. To get close I was always paying a scalper... today that scalper just happens to be Ticketmaster instead of that guy outside the venue with a handful of tickets.

Hmmm.... I wonder if that guy worked for Ticketmaster...

[Mr Slow]

First: Gun at their back? Shit, the Much Too Soons of the board wouldn't need a gun to their back, they'd happily pay more if they could....y'know, to help with all the "winning" they crow about

Second: Also, it's pretty obvious the Much Too Soons of the board are great at talking the talk, but not so much at walking the walk. Bullshit that you don't read anything by the users you'd supposedly blocked...and the more you continue to keep claiming otherwise, the more you come off as a wishy-washy dolt.

No need for the name calling is there? We’re just a bunch of KISS Nerds discussing KISS. Let’s leave the angry rants to people like Eddie Trunk!

[Vandelay Industries]

Personally, I wouldn't be the least bit upset if I paid $500 for a seat and found out that the person next to me paid way less on the day of. They took a chance hoping they'd get a good ticket, and it paid off! Good for them. I decided not to risk it, and knew I'd get a good ticket. Good for me.

Before dynamic pricing, I could never get a good seat by the luck of the draw. To get close I was always paying a scalper... today that scalper just happens to be Ticketmaster instead of that guy outside the venue with a handful of tickets.

Hmmm.... I wonder if that guy worked for Ticketmaster...

But if the scalper happens to be Ticketmaster, that pretty much throws out the "it's just like the airlines!" analogy being tossed around here, doesn't it? If you're trying to book a flight and you think Delta is charging too much, well you have plenty of other above-board major airlines to look for a better price, unlike Ticketmaster, where it's pretty much them or GFY, lol...

[nibbler1982]

Personally, I wouldn't be the least bit upset if I paid $500 for a seat and found out that the person next to me paid way less on the day of. They took a chance hoping they'd get a good ticket, and it paid off! Good for them. I decided not to risk it, and knew I'd get a good ticket. Good for me.

Before dynamic pricing, I could never get a good seat by the luck of the draw. To get close I was always paying a scalper... today that scalper just happens to be Ticketmaster instead of that guy outside the venue with a handful of tickets.

Hmmm.... I wonder if that guy worked for Ticketmaster...

I agree wholeheartedly. It’s truly capitalism at it’s finest. The consumer can’t lose. It really works from either side of the fence you’re standing on.

For me? I’m tickled pink that I’m able to to buy the EXACT seats I want for KISS shows. If I want to pay more I get a better seat. If the premium seat doesn’t mean as much to me I can get a cheaper one. Nothing evil, nefarious, or underhanded about it. It really doesn’t seem like a tough concept to grasp.

The pendulum also swings both ways. Streisand is coming back to Madison Square Garden. I’ll assuredly be there. Like I’ve done so many time before with shows that aren’t KISS I’ll play the game. I’m gonna wait until the last few days and scoop up a $1,000 seat for probably around $350. I may get shut out and have to deal with a broker or end up with a lesser seat but at this juncture I believe my success rate is worth rolling the dice. I will not pay for the premium this time around. Other Babs fans certainly disagree with me and they pay for the privilege to lock that prime seat in.

Commerce at it’s finest...supply and demand.

[Vandelay Industries]

Yes, good ol supply and demand pricing out the people who are supposed to be the lifeblood of the concert biz, the 15-25 crowd. Once these dinosaur acts are extinct, and the people on the back 9 of their lives turn their backs from attending any more shows, I suppose Ticketmaster (and those complicit) will finally come to a realization why younger people don't GAF about music like the older generations do. Glad I was born at the right time to catch great shows without spending an arm and a leg, but still young enough to watch it all go to shit first-hand....

[Wichita77]

Yes, good ol supply and demand pricing out the people who are supposed to be the lifeblood of the concert biz, the 15-25 crowd. Once these dinosaur acts are extinct, and the people on the back 9 of their lives turn their backs from attending any more shows, I suppose Ticketmaster (and those complicit) will finally come to a realization why younger people don't GAF about music like the older generations do. Glad I was born at the right time to catch great shows without spending an arm and a leg, but still young enough to watch it all go to shit first-hand....

I am glad I lived in the days when tickets were cheap and where you sat/stood depended on how early you showed up in line to wait. I have been in the very front of a Van Halen show back in the day, Sabbath with Dio, Alice Cooper, Metallica, and many others, all after waiting all day to get in. (Sadly circumstances prevented me from showing up early at those early KISS shows.)

At my age though, I am glad now that I can pay for the seat I want, show up whenever I want, and not get shoved around in the mosh pit anymore.

[Vandelay Industries]

Yes, good ol supply and demand pricing out the people who are supposed to be the lifeblood of the concert biz, the 15-25 crowd. Once these dinosaur acts are extinct, and the people on the back 9 of their lives turn their backs from attending any more shows, I suppose Ticketmaster (and those complicit) will finally come to a realization why younger people don't GAF about music like the older generations do. Glad I was born at the right time to catch great shows without spending an arm and a leg, but still young enough to watch it all go to shit first-hand....

I am glad I lived in the days when tickets were cheap and where you sat/stood depended on how early you showed up in line to wait. I have been in the very front of a Van Halen show back in the day, Sabbath with Dio, Alice Cooper, Metallica, and many others, all after waiting all day to get in. (Sadly circumstances prevented me from showing up early at those early KISS shows.)

At my age though, I am glad now that I can pay for the seat I want, show up whenever I want, and not get shoved around in the mosh pit anymore.

Seriously, more power to ya, but I can't justify paying $750 for anything lasting only a few hours, regardless of what my personal income is, with the possible exception of surgery

[CStomp1]

Yes, good ol supply and demand pricing out the people who are supposed to be the lifeblood of the concert biz, the 15-25 crowd. Once these dinosaur acts are extinct, and the people on the back 9 of their lives turn their backs from attending any more shows, I suppose Ticketmaster (and those complicit) will finally come to a realization why younger people don't GAF about music like the older generations do. Glad I was born at the right time to catch great shows without spending an arm and a leg, but still young enough to watch it all go to shit first-hand....

I am glad I lived in the days when tickets were cheap and where you sat/stood depended on how early you showed up in line to wait. I have been in the very front of a Van Halen show back in the day, Sabbath with Dio, Alice Cooper, Metallica, and many others, all after waiting all day to get in. (Sadly circumstances prevented me from showing up early at those early KISS shows.)

At my age though, I am glad now that I can pay for the seat I want, show up whenever I want, and not get shoved around in the mosh pit anymore.

Seriously, more power to ya, but I can't justify paying $750 for anything lasting only a few hours, regardless of what my personal income is, with the possible exception of surgery

And it better be a damn good surgery at that! Maybe including a meet and greet with the doctor.

I'm with you - not spending $750 for anything as fleeting as a concert or sports event, but more power to those who would do so.

[Much Too Soon]

Anyone that has purchased a KISS EOTR ticket with a gun at their back... please speak up.

Anyone......

Anyone???

[Talktopete]

Julian, maybe post a locked/pinned thread that only you access to post boxscores for number junkies ?

http://www.kissendoftheroad.com/2019/2019.php

This link is one of the greatest things I have seen. I thrive on figures and box scores. This information simply wasn't available when I was a kid. It really interests me. Thank you so so much. And thank you for your work and effort.

[Evo999]

What it comes down to is some people would get the best seats by camping out and get in line before they went on sale.

Now it's who's willing to pay the most - before to scalpers, now to Ticketmaster.

Me, I like it, since, my time is worth more than the cost of the ticket. Now someone with nothing better to do than line -up for tickets can't take my seat. I liked it when I was 15. At 50, I'll pay more for the seat I want.

And that is what drives the system, for better or worse.

[Talktopete]

Yes, good ol supply and demand pricing out the people who are supposed to be the lifeblood of the concert biz, the 15-25 crowd. Once these dinosaur acts are extinct, and the people on the back 9 of their lives turn their backs from attending any more shows, I suppose Ticketmaster (and those complicit) will finally come to a realization why younger people don't GAF about music like the older generations do. Glad I was born at the right time to catch great shows without spending an arm and a leg, but still young enough to watch it all go to shit first-hand....

I am glad I lived in the days when tickets were cheap and where you sat/stood depended on how early you showed up in line to wait. I have been in the very front of a Van Halen show back in the day, Sabbath with Dio, Alice Cooper, Metallica, and many others, all after waiting all day to get in. (Sadly circumstances prevented me from showing up early at those early KISS shows.)

At my age though, I am glad now that I can pay for the seat I want, show up whenever I want, and not get shoved around in the mosh pit anymore.

Seriously, more power to ya, but I can't justify paying $750 for anything lasting only a few hours, regardless of what my personal income is, with the possible exception of surgery

And it better be a damn good surgery at that! Maybe including a meet and greet with the doctor.

I'm with you - not spending $750 for anything as fleeting as a concert or sports event, but more power to those who would do so.

I'm in St. Louis, people are paying upwards of $1000 to watch the St. Louis Blues on a screen in our arena!!! Totally ridiculous. It's free on tv but there's a watch party in our arena AND Busch stadium because the last game is out of town. Again, you can watch it for FREE on tv. People are nuts. A pair of tickets sold for 900$ on StubHub last night. They we're originally ten dollars each. Again, this was to watch it on a SCREEN.

[metaldad]

What it comes down to is some people would get the best seats by camping out and get in line before they went on sale.

This is what my friends and I did for years, 1980 till 91
Overnight
12 hrs
10hrs etc
Rain , snow or 90 degree weather , didn’t matter

[BeholderFan]

I personally think "dynamic pricing" or whatever is a bunch of garbage. Look, I GET why artists do it, but it is so anti-consumer. Like someone here said, it punishes the early birds who want to get good seats. What happens later when someone waits until maybe the day of the show, or whatever, and buys a ticket in the SAME ROW for way less, because Ticketmaster wants to sell it just to sell it? I just don't think that is fair at all to the early bird fan who originally purchased the higher price. You know. like the person who talked about the $750 KISS ticket being sold for $250 on the day of the show. I would feel ripped off if I had a $750 dollar seat, and I had found out that a person in the SAME ROW and SAME SECTION paid just $250 bucks. I would have wondered why I had to pay an extra $500 bucks more?

The reason why you had to pay an extra $500 was to assure you got the premium seat you wanted.

If that premium seat wasn’t worth you paying for that assurance then you don’t pay it and take your chances.

Nobody gets ripped off.

Nibbler, this is not like the airlines where I can fly from New York to London only on American Airlines. I can buy tickets and get better prices on OTHER airlines. This is Ticketmaster. There is only ONE Ticketmaster, and they are the ones selling the tickets, using this dynamic pricing. Sure, I "got the premium seat." However, I should not have to pay through the nose for it, when some Joe Schmo gets the same ticket in the SAME ROW for 2/3RDS LESS. Yes, I am being ripped off.

[redinthesky]

I personally think "dynamic pricing" or whatever is a bunch of garbage. Look, I GET why artists do it, but it is so anti-consumer. Like someone here said, it punishes the early birds who want to get good seats. What happens later when someone waits until maybe the day of the show, or whatever, and buys a ticket in the SAME ROW for way less, because Ticketmaster wants to sell it just to sell it? I just don't think that is fair at all to the early bird fan who originally purchased the higher price. You know. like the person who talked about the $750 KISS ticket being sold for $250 on the day of the show. I would feel ripped off if I had a $750 dollar seat, and I had found out that a person in the SAME ROW and SAME SECTION paid just $250 bucks. I would have wondered why I had to pay an extra $500 bucks more?

The reason why you had to pay an extra $500 was to assure you got the premium seat you wanted.

If that premium seat wasn’t worth you paying for that assurance then you don’t pay it and take your chances.

Nobody gets ripped off.

Nibbler, this is not like the airlines where I can fly from New York to London only on American Airlines. I can buy tickets and get better prices on OTHER airlines. This is Ticketmaster. There is only ONE Ticketmaster, and they are the ones selling the tickets, using this dynamic pricing. Sure, I "got the premium seat." However, I should not have to pay through the nose for it, when some Joe Schmo gets the same ticket in the SAME ROW for 2/3RDS LESS. Yes, I am being ripped off.

Exactly. Just like when I saw someone buy a $750 seat at Nassau Coliseum for $250 just an hour before showtime (and the other seat next to it at the same price went unsold). Imagine that guy going to the show and chatting to the guy next him, how that guy would feel discovering that he paid $750 many months ago, and the guy next to him paid $250 right before showtime. The only person more aggravated would be the promoter for not getting another $750 for the seat (not to mention the one that didn't even sell). (Oh wait, I forgot, promoters love when tickets don't get sold right away and they get less money for them later on )

[necronomicon]

I wonder what the hold up is on Toronto?

The tour is absolutely incredible in terms of sales so far.

[nibbler1982]

I personally think "dynamic pricing" or whatever is a bunch of garbage. Look, I GET why artists do it, but it is so anti-consumer. Like someone here said, it punishes the early birds who want to get good seats. What happens later when someone waits until maybe the day of the show, or whatever, and buys a ticket in the SAME ROW for way less, because Ticketmaster wants to sell it just to sell it? I just don't think that is fair at all to the early bird fan who originally purchased the higher price. You know. like the person who talked about the $750 KISS ticket being sold for $250 on the day of the show. I would feel ripped off if I had a $750 dollar seat, and I had found out that a person in the SAME ROW and SAME SECTION paid just $250 bucks. I would have wondered why I had to pay an extra $500 bucks more?

The reason why you had to pay an extra $500 was to assure you got the premium seat you wanted.

If that premium seat wasn’t worth you paying for that assurance then you don’t pay it and take your chances.

Nobody gets ripped off.

Nibbler, this is not like the airlines where I can fly from New York to London only on American Airlines. I can buy tickets and get better prices on OTHER airlines. This is Ticketmaster. There is only ONE Ticketmaster, and they are the ones selling the tickets, using this dynamic pricing. Sure, I "got the premium seat." However, I should not have to pay through the nose for it, when some Joe Schmo gets the same ticket in the SAME ROW for 2/3RDS LESS. Yes, I am being ripped off.

Exactly. Just like when I saw someone buy a $750 seat at Nassau Coliseum for $250 just an hour before showtime (and the other seat next to it at the same price went unsold). Imagine that guy going to the show and chatting to the guy next him, how that guy would feel discovering that he paid $750 many months ago, and the guy next to him paid $250 right before showtime. The only person more aggravated would be the promoter for not getting another $750 for the seat (not to mention the one that didn't even sell). (Oh wait, I forgot, promoters love when tickets don't get sold right away and they get less money for them later on )

Ladies and gentlemen...I give you Abbott & Costello math at it’s finest!

First Red tells the Madison Square Garden Company, Live Nation, and Billboard what is and isn’t a sold out show.

If that wasn’t bad enough Red now knows more than Live Nation on how to extract maximum dollars out of the buying public.

Sounds like the tantrum of a petulant child to me.

[nibbler1982]

I personally think "dynamic pricing" or whatever is a bunch of garbage. Look, I GET why artists do it, but it is so anti-consumer. Like someone here said, it punishes the early birds who want to get good seats. What happens later when someone waits until maybe the day of the show, or whatever, and buys a ticket in the SAME ROW for way less, because Ticketmaster wants to sell it just to sell it? I just don't think that is fair at all to the early bird fan who originally purchased the higher price. You know. like the person who talked about the $750 KISS ticket being sold for $250 on the day of the show. I would feel ripped off if I had a $750 dollar seat, and I had found out that a person in the SAME ROW and SAME SECTION paid just $250 bucks. I would have wondered why I had to pay an extra $500 bucks more?

The reason why you had to pay an extra $500 was to assure you got the premium seat you wanted.

If that premium seat wasn’t worth you paying for that assurance then you don’t pay it and take your chances.

Nobody gets ripped off.

Nibbler, this is not like the airlines where I can fly from New York to London only on American Airlines. I can buy tickets and get better prices on OTHER airlines. This is Ticketmaster. There is only ONE Ticketmaster, and they are the ones selling the tickets, using this dynamic pricing. Sure, I "got the premium seat." However, I should not have to pay through the nose for it, when some Joe Schmo gets the same ticket in the SAME ROW for 2/3RDS LESS. Yes, I am being ripped off.

Yes...and even though there is only ONE Ticketmaster you can get better prices from them themselves. You paid to ensure you got a premium seat...and got it. Joe Schmo(e) took a chance on maybe getting a similar seat for a reduced price...or maybe not not getting one at all. Since you locked it in at that premium price you didn’t have to fret about such things.

I paid a premium for third row aisle at MSG. If anyone was playing the waiting game they lost out. They didn’t get a better price and probably didn’t get a similar seat unless they paid through the nose. Conversely I paid top dollar for the same locations at Barclays and Prudential. I’m sure some of my immediate brethren at those shows will have paid far less. I paid for the privilege of not having to bother. I believe it was worth it. That’s the precise reason I paid it.

You say “I should not have to pay through the nose.”

You don’t get to make such decisions. The buying public sets the price. Not one individual. You get to decide if you want to go at all and what price you’re willing to pay.

Nothing more.

[Wichita77]

Nibbler, this is not like the airlines where I can fly from New York to London only on American Airlines. I can buy tickets and get better prices on OTHER airlines. This is Ticketmaster. There is only ONE Ticketmaster, and they are the ones selling the tickets, using this dynamic pricing. Sure, I "got the premium seat." However, I should not have to pay through the nose for it, when some Joe Schmo gets the same ticket in the SAME ROW for 2/3RDS LESS. Yes, I am being ripped off.

With all due respect, you are not getting ripped off. You have a choice of paying a premium price in the beginning to lock in the seat that you want, or you can choose to gamble and wait for the price of that seat to go down.

Do you feel ripped off if gas goes down the day after you have filled your tank?

The airline ticket example probably isn't a fair comparison as Ticketmaster is a monopoly, and typically booking a flight early saves you money, whereas waiting on a concert ticket is usually your best bet for a bargain. Perhaps looking at it like the housing market would be best, after all you are buying real estate at a concert. You can buy an acre for the asking price when it first goes on the market and get the one you want, or you can hope the price goes down and someone else doesn't buy it up before you do.

Don't get me wrong, I preferred the day when all concert ticket prices were set, but those were the days you could write a check for groceries that would be good by the time it was processed. Technology has changed everything. This is the reality of buying concert tickets today, but it's not all bad.

Personally, I'm too old to sleep on a sidewalk to get the best tickets for a show.

[redinthesky]

Personally, I wouldn't be the least bit upset if I paid $500 for a seat and found out that the person next to me paid way less on the day of. They took a chance hoping they'd get a good ticket, and it paid off! Good for them. I decided not to risk it, and knew I'd get a good ticket. Good for me.

Before dynamic pricing, I could never get a good seat by the luck of the draw. To get close I was always paying a scalper... today that scalper just happens to be Ticketmaster instead of that guy outside the venue with a handful of tickets.

Hmmm.... I wonder if that guy worked for Ticketmaster...

But if the scalper happens to be Ticketmaster, that pretty much throws out the "it's just like the airlines!" analogy being tossed around here, doesn't it? If you're trying to book a flight and you think Delta is charging too much, well you have plenty of other above-board major airlines to look for a better price, unlike Ticketmaster, where it's pretty much them or GFY, lol...

Ticketmaster knows how many suckers out there are willing to spend ridiculous amounts of money, but fortunately it isn't everyone. Yup, unlike the airlines, you don't have a choice with Ticketmaster. Now they even change you $20 more to sit in the last four seats of an aisle, where does it stop for some people? It's not even about affording it per se, it's all about the value of a dollar. The "being ripped off" thing only happens if you allow yourself to be.

While some delusional souls may think that promoters or ticketmaster don't want to sell tickets right away, the truth is, the last thing both of them want is for a ticket to not sell and then having to lower the cost of a ticket to possibly move it. I know I keep bringing up the same example, but watching a fellow Kiss fan score a $750 ticket for $250 at Nassau Coliseum an hour before the show is the perfect example. Not only did that fan save half a grand, but the seat next to him went unsold, so out of a possible $1500, that pair of tickets brought in $250. No one who isn't a mental case thinks $250 coming in is better than $1500. But I applaud any Kiss fan on this tour who played the game well and fed the beast much less than they wanted.

Heck, I even said myself that for this Kiss tour, I'd possibly buy a severely discounted ticket for Barclay's and just go for the show. And by the looks of the ticket sales for that show, where it's just a huge sea of blue dots and unsold tickets, why would anyone buy a full-price ticket for that show right now? Just wait it out.

[nibbler1982]

Personally, I wouldn't be the least bit upset if I paid $500 for a seat and found out that the person next to me paid way less on the day of. They took a chance hoping they'd get a good ticket, and it paid off! Good for them. I decided not to risk it, and knew I'd get a good ticket. Good for me.

Before dynamic pricing, I could never get a good seat by the luck of the draw. To get close I was always paying a scalper... today that scalper just happens to be Ticketmaster instead of that guy outside the venue with a handful of tickets.

Hmmm.... I wonder if that guy worked for Ticketmaster...

But if the scalper happens to be Ticketmaster, that pretty much throws out the "it's just like the airlines!" analogy being tossed around here, doesn't it? If you're trying to book a flight and you think Delta is charging too much, well you have plenty of other above-board major airlines to look for a better price, unlike Ticketmaster, where it's pretty much them or GFY, lol...

Ticketmaster knows how many suckers out there are willing to spend ridiculous amounts of money, but fortunately it isn't everyone. Yup, unlike the airlines, you don't have a choice with Ticketmaster. Now they even change you $20 more to sit in the last four seats of an aisle, where does it stop for some people? It's not even about affording it per se, it's all about the value of a dollar. The "being ripped off" thing only happens if you allow yourself to be.

While some delusional souls may think that promoters or ticketmaster don't want to sell tickets right away, the truth is, the last thing both of them want is for a ticket to not sell and then having to lower the cost of a ticket to possibly move it. I know I keep bringing up the same example, but watching a fellow Kiss fan score a $750 ticket for $250 at Nassau Coliseum an hour before the show is the perfect example. Not only did that fan save half a grand, but the seat next to him went unsold, so out of a possible $1500, that pair of tickets brought in $250. No one who isn't a mental case thinks $250 coming in is better than $1500. But I applaud any Kiss fan on this tour who played the game well and fed the beast much less than they wanted.

Heck, I even said myself that for this Kiss tour, I'd possibly buy a severely discounted ticket for Barclay's and just go for the show. And by the looks of the ticket sales for that show, where it's just a huge sea of blue dots and unsold tickets, why would anyone buy a full-price ticket for that show right now? Just wait it out.

[Thunderous_Lay]

(...) how many suckers (...) While some delusional souls (...) No one who isn't a mental case (...)

Unhinged much ?

And by the looks of the ticket sales for that show, where it's just a huge sea of blue dots and unsold tickets (...)

So... you're "counting the dots" as well now ?

That's some funny sh*t right there, mate. Must be contagious.

Carry on, merry men.

[nibbler1982]

(...) how many suckers (...) While some delusional souls (...) No one who isn't a mental case (...)

Unhinged much ?

And by the looks of the ticket sales for that show, where it's just a huge sea of blue dots and unsold tickets (...)

So... you're "counting the dots" as well now ?

That's some funny sh*t right there, mate. Must be contagious.

Carry on, merry men.

When it comes to yours truly, unhinged doesn’t quite do it justice.

[star_paul12]

All this is pretty simple. Ticketmaster has a monopoly on an industry. And as capitalism and common sense tells us, any time there is a monopoly on an enterprise, it stands to benefit only one group: the one with said monopoly. You can twist and augment the argument however you wish, but at the end of the day it’s very simple.

[nibbler1982]

All this is pretty simple. Ticketmaster has a monopoly on an industry. And as capitalism and common sense tells us, any time there is a monopoly on an enterprise, it stands to benefit only one group: the one with said monopoly. You can twist and augment the argument however you wish, but at the end of the day it’s very simple.

Ticketmaster assuredly does not have a monopoly on ticket sales. They have many competitors, including the venues themselves.

Maybe you’re not familiar with the definition?

[star_paul12]

All this is pretty simple. Ticketmaster has a monopoly on an industry. And as capitalism and common sense tells us, any time there is a monopoly on an enterprise, it stands to benefit only one group: the one with said monopoly. You can twist and augment the argument however you wish, but at the end of the day it’s very simple.

Ticketmaster assuredly does not have a monopoly on ticket sales. They have many competitors, including the venues themselves.

Maybe you’re not familiar with the definition?

What companies have anywhere near the same clout as Ticketmaster?

[nibbler1982]

All this is pretty simple. Ticketmaster has a monopoly on an industry. And as capitalism and common sense tells us, any time there is a monopoly on an enterprise, it stands to benefit only one group: the one with said monopoly. You can twist and augment the argument however you wish, but at the end of the day it’s very simple.

Ticketmaster assuredly does not have a monopoly on ticket sales. They have many competitors, including the venues themselves.

Maybe you’re not familiar with the definition?

What companies have anywhere near the same clout as Ticketmaster?

Are you changing your parameters or the definition of monopoly?

[Vandelay Industries]

Personally, I wouldn't be the least bit upset if I paid $500 for a seat and found out that the person next to me paid way less on the day of. They took a chance hoping they'd get a good ticket, and it paid off! Good for them. I decided not to risk it, and knew I'd get a good ticket. Good for me.

Before dynamic pricing, I could never get a good seat by the luck of the draw. To get close I was always paying a scalper... today that scalper just happens to be Ticketmaster instead of that guy outside the venue with a handful of tickets.

Hmmm.... I wonder if that guy worked for Ticketmaster...

But if the scalper happens to be Ticketmaster, that pretty much throws out the "it's just like the airlines!" analogy being tossed around here, doesn't it? If you're trying to book a flight and you think Delta is charging too much, well you have plenty of other above-board major airlines to look for a better price, unlike Ticketmaster, where it's pretty much them or GFY, lol...

Ticketmaster knows how many suckers out there are willing to spend ridiculous amounts of money, but fortunately it isn't everyone. Yup, unlike the airlines, you don't have a choice with Ticketmaster. Now they even change you $20 more to sit in the last four seats of an aisle, where does it stop for some people? It's not even about affording it per se, it's all about the value of a dollar. The "being ripped off" thing only happens if you allow yourself to be.

While some delusional souls may think that promoters or ticketmaster don't want to sell tickets right away, the truth is, the last thing both of them want is for a ticket to not sell and then having to lower the cost of a ticket to possibly move it. I know I keep bringing up the same example, but watching a fellow Kiss fan score a $750 ticket for $250 at Nassau Coliseum an hour before the show is the perfect example. Not only did that fan save half a grand, but the seat next to him went unsold, so out of a possible $1500, that pair of tickets brought in $250. No one who isn't a mental case thinks $250 coming in is better than $1500. But I applaud any Kiss fan on this tour who played the game well and fed the beast much less than they wanted.

Heck, I even said myself that for this Kiss tour, I'd possibly buy a severely discounted ticket for Barclay's and just go for the show. And by the looks of the ticket sales for that show, where it's just a huge sea of blue dots and unsold tickets, why would anyone buy a full-price ticket for that show right now? Just wait it out.

It keeps getting more ridiculous. Now they're selling "reserved lawn" tickets at the sheds (around here, anyway), as if they're not drawing enough blood from the pavilion seats...

[Vandelay Industries]

All this is pretty simple. Ticketmaster has a monopoly on an industry. And as capitalism and common sense tells us, any time there is a monopoly on an enterprise, it stands to benefit only one group: the one with said monopoly. You can twist and augment the argument however you wish, but at the end of the day it’s very simple.

Ticketmaster assuredly does not have a monopoly on ticket sales. They have many competitors, including the venues themselves.

Maybe you’re not familiar with the definition?

What companies have anywhere near the same clout as Ticketmaster?

I'm sure you'll get a sidetracked response (edit: yup, you sure did, lol), but at least many of us aren't so obtuse to not get the gist of what you're saying. Regardless of how many other ticket companies there are, if Ticketmaster is at that venue, then the other companies are shut out, hence a "monopoly"...

[Mr. Kiss]

What it comes down to is some people would get the best seats by camping out and get in line before they went on sale.

Now it's who's willing to pay the most - before to scalpers, now to Ticketmaster.

Me, I like it, since, my time is worth more than the cost of the ticket. Now someone with nothing better to do than line -up for tickets can't take my seat. I liked it when I was 15. At 50, I'll pay more for the seat I want.

And that is what drives the system, for better or worse.

It's definitely worse!

[Mr. Kiss]

All this is pretty simple. Ticketmaster has a monopoly on an industry. And as capitalism and common sense tells us, any time there is a monopoly on an enterprise, it stands to benefit only one group: the one with said monopoly. You can twist and augment the argument however you wish, but at the end of the day it’s very simple.

Ticketmaster assuredly does not have a monopoly on ticket sales. They have many competitors, including the venues themselves.

Maybe you’re not familiar with the definition?

What companies have anywhere near the same clout as Ticketmaster?

I'm sure you'll get a sidetracked response (edit: yup, you sure did, lol), but at least many of us aren't so obtuse to not get the gist of what you're saying. Regardless of how many other ticket companies there are, if Ticketmaster is at that venue, then the other companies are shut out, hence a "monopoly"...

BINGO! Well said VI.

[nibbler1982]

All this is pretty simple. Ticketmaster has a monopoly on an industry. And as capitalism and common sense tells us, any time there is a monopoly on an enterprise, it stands to benefit only one group: the one with said monopoly. You can twist and augment the argument however you wish, but at the end of the day it’s very simple.

Ticketmaster assuredly does not have a monopoly on ticket sales. They have many competitors, including the venues themselves.

Maybe you’re not familiar with the definition?

What companies have anywhere near the same clout as Ticketmaster?

I'm sure you'll get a sidetracked response (edit: yup, you sure did, lol), but at least many of us aren't so obtuse to not get the gist of what you're saying. Regardless of how many other ticket companies there are, if Ticketmaster is at that venue, then the other companies are shut out, hence a "monopoly"...

So you figured you bypass obtuse altogether and go straight for ignorance?

Off the top of my head on the upcoming leg alone Ticketmaster is SHUT OUT COMPLETELY on distributing tickets for the Toyota Center and Staples Center shows. I can’t remember every date from the first leg where the same rules applied, but Philly was one of them. This fact in and of itself negates Ticketmaster from having a monopoly on ticket sales.

You’re usually on the short end of our debates so this is par for the course, but if you cry about Ticketmaster being a monopoly you should AT LEAST look up the definition first.

First and foremost it shows a lack of pride.

[Vandelay Industries]

That's a mighty fine speech there, even though it didn't stop you from proceeding to say what no one was actually disagreeing with in the literal sense, nor did it stop you from creating yet another distraction by ignoring the actual comment...

I'M on the short end? Lol, you're the kind of guy who spikes the ball and does a TD dance after being tackled on the 25 yard line...