New EOTR Boxscores

[Admin]

These just came in to Pollstar and are slightly different to Billboard's...

Mar. 17 - Quicken Loans Arena, Cleveland, OH
Reported audience: 11,322 **SOLD-OUT

Apr. 9 - Bridgestone Arena, Nashville, TN
Reported audience: 13,302 / 13,759 (96.68%)
Reported gross: $1,562,043

[Admin]

February 13 - Gila River Arena, Glendale, AZ
Reported audience: 9,068 / 15,000 (60.45%)
Reported gross: $1,223,363

[nibbler1982]

February 13 - Gila River Arena, Glendale, AZ
Reported audience: 9,068 / 15,000 (60.45%)
Reported gross: $1,223,363

I’m AMAZED.

[necronomicon]

Wow, KISS doing 1.2 million on an “off” attendance night

[nibbler1982]

Okay, most of us are aware of the fact that Glendale was the dog of the first leg. To say “sales were soft” is putting it kindly and quite the understatement. To move 9,000 seats and pull in a $1.2M gate is nothing short of amazing. Go KISS!!!

If this behavior holds true, the return trip to the U.S. is gonna go even better than I thought!

KISS Army 2019
LOUD PROUD AND UNBOWED

[Mr. Kiss]

February 13 - Gila River Arena, Glendale, AZ
Reported audience: 9,068 / 15,000 (60.45%)
Reported gross: $1,223,363

I’m AMAZED.

I'm not. Higher (i.e. absurd) ticket prices will do that. But I digress.

What I AM surprised at is they actually made 15,000 tickets AVAILABLE??? The "capacity" for most end-stage gigs is 16,000, while the true capacity itself is a little over 18,000. As I said earlier, the current lineup could NEVER sell that many tickets in AZ. (at those ridiculous prices).

Be that as it may, I wasn't far off when I said it likely was similar to Alive 35 in 2009. Roughly 1000 less for this tour.

[Talktopete]

KISS - Forum, Inglewood, CA
Reported audience: 13,660 **SOLD-OUT
Reported gross: $1,769,872

KISS - Tacoma Dome, Tacoma, WA
Reported audience: 14,191 / 14,659 (96.81%)
Reported gross: $1,464,975

KISS - Honda Center, Anaheim, CA
Reported audience: 10,364 / 13,632 (76.03%)
Reported gross: $1,210,215

KISS - American Airlines Center, Dallas, TX
Reported audience: 12,033 **SOLD-OUT
Reported gross: $1,611,304

KISS - T-Mobile Arena, Las Vegas, NV
Reported audience: 13,854 / 14,468 (95.76%)
Reported gross: $1,442,534

KISS - Spokane Arena, Spokane, WA
Reported audience: 7,241 **SOLD-OUT
Reported gross: $634,166

KISS - Fiserv Forum, Milwaukee, WI
Reported audience: 9,663 **SOLD-OUT
Reported gross: $1,185,069

KISS - Viejas Arena, San Diego, CA
Reported audience: 7,521 / 7,825 (96.12%)
Reported gross: $876,677

KISS - CHI Health Center Omaha, Omaha, NE
Reported audience: 12,730 **SOLD-OUT
Reported gross: $1,101,669

Thank you for posting this stuff. Always interesting to me.

[nibbler1982]

February 13 - Gila River Arena, Glendale, AZ
Reported audience: 9,068 / 15,000 (60.45%)
Reported gross: $1,223,363

I’m AMAZED.

I'm not. Higher (i.e. absurd) ticket prices will do that. But I digress.

What I AM surprised at is they actually made 15,000 tickets AVAILABLE??? The "capacity" for most end-stage gigs is 16,000, while the true capacity itself is a little over 18,000. As I said earlier, the current lineup could NEVER sell that many tickets in AZ. (at those ridiculous prices).

Be that as it may, I wasn't far off when I said it likely was similar to Alive 35 in 2009. Roughly 1000 less for this tour.

I was talking solely about how poor sales were out the gate compared to where they ended up. The diagram below shows this date was EXTREMELY soft to put it kindly.

I’m not surprised that this date had the biggest drop in attendance venue wise when matched up against Alive 35. While most markets went up, the 1,808 decrease (16.62%) was the highest across the board. By far.

What shocks me is that KISS ended up getting ~9,000 people to purchase seats at such a high ticket average. Live Nation can fill up any venue in a moments notice if they really wanted to. What they can’t do is force people on how much money they want to spend. The $134.90 price per ticket average shows that’s a legitimate 9,068 bodies in attendance.

Amazing.

I really can’t wait to see if this holds true with some of the “softer” dates on the second U.S. leg.

Stay tuned.

[misterhand80]

Thank you for all the work you do with these interesting attendance numbers

[nibbler1982]

February 13 - Gila River Arena, Glendale, AZ
Reported audience: 9,068 / 15,000 (60.45%)
Reported gross: $1,223,363

I’m AMAZED.

I'm not. Higher (i.e. absurd) ticket prices will do that. But I digress.

What I AM surprised at is they actually made 15,000 tickets AVAILABLE??? The "capacity" for most end-stage gigs is 16,000, while the true capacity itself is a little over 18,000. As I said earlier, the current lineup could NEVER sell that many tickets in AZ. (at those ridiculous prices).

Be that as it may, I wasn't far off when I said it likely was similar to Alive 35 in 2009. Roughly 1000 less for this tour.

I was talking solely about how poor sales were out the gate compared to where they ended up. The diagram below shows this date was EXTREMELY soft to put it kindly.

I’m not surprised that this date had the biggest drop in attendance venue wise when matched up against Alive 35. While most markets went up, the 1,808 decrease (16.62%) was the highest across the board. By far.

What shocks me is that KISS ended up getting ~9,000 people to purchase seats at such a high ticket average. Live Nation can fill up any venue in a moments notice if they really wanted to. What they can’t do is force people on how much money they want to spend. The $134.90 price per ticket average shows that’s a legitimate 9,068 bodies in attendance.

Amazing.

I really can’t wait to see if this holds true with some of the “softer” dates on the second U.S. leg.

Stay tuned.

Edit:

And most end stage configurations in your boilerplate NHL sized arenas IS NOT 16,000.

It’s more in the 13,500 range. It all depends on how many side/rear stage sections you choose to make available.

[Crown Royal]

KISS - Fiserv Forum, Milwaukee, WI
Reported audience: 9,663 **SOLD-OUT

It holds 18,000 for concerts

Pretty amazing what our resident want-to-be-twelve-ers consider a victory today

[Grizzly Adams]

KISS - Fiserv Forum, Milwaukee, WI
Reported audience: 9,663 **SOLD-OUT

It holds 18,000 for concerts

Pretty amazing what our resident want-to-be-twelve-ers consider a victory today

The arena was configured such that every other seat was removed.

[nibbler1982]

KISS - Fiserv Forum, Milwaukee, WI
Reported audience: 9,663 **SOLD-OUT

It holds 18,000 for concerts

Pretty amazing what our resident want-to-be-twelve-ers consider a victory today

The arena was configured such that every other seat was removed.

I’m not sure I’ve ever seen that layout for a concert. But the Fiserv Forum has many different configurations. Like you can see below.

[Doose]

I know there are some that want to insist sales are soft and the tour isn't selling well, but I've yet to see anyone post pictures of an arena that looks like the sales were soft, or that sections that were closed off (or sparsely full).

[aceshigh]

I know there are some that want to insist sales are soft and the tour isn't selling well, but I've yet to see anyone post pictures of an arena that looks like the sales were soft, or that sections that were closed off (or sparsely full).

Actually for a band limping to the finish line KISS is making a ton of money. The argument has been whether or not this will be KISS biggest tour ever. Some say it will be money wise, some say asses in seats wise it won't be. Who really cares unless we start getting a cut of the profits.

The second leg looks soft but really who gives a shit about how much money Gene and Paul make? Some just see this as a way to put down the original band making absurd claims that the current line-up is as big as the originals. The OL will always be bigger as this line-up has yet to play 4 nights in a row anywhere. Cheers.

[Much Too Soon]

Cmon...ticket prices determine sales. Revenue pricing is a different ballgame than your average 1970s gig. The management is using pretty sophisticated computer modeling to price each seat and update it almost hourly. In essence KISS ...say for Dallas ... for example was estimated to bring in a certain range of dollars. The modeling was used to price seats properly to bring in the higher range of dollars. And it’s working. Working nationwide and looks like worldwide as well.

In other words KISS is currently making 97% of the available dollars that are estimated to be made and selling 97% of the available seats .... to reach that objective. The band is KICKING ASS.
————————————————————————————————————-————————————————————-
NEWS
APRIL 9, 2018 2:59PM ET

Taylor Swift’s Ticket Strategy: Brilliant Business or Slowing Demand?

If you went on Ticketmaster in January and pulled up a third-row seat for Taylor Swift‘s June 2nd show at Chicago’s Soldier Field, it would have cost you $995. But if you looked up the same seat three months later, the price would have been $595. That’s because Swift has adopted “dynamic pricing,” where concert tickets – like airline seats – shift prices constantly in adjusting to market demand. It’s a move intended to squeeze out the secondary-ticket market – but it’s also left many fans confused as they’re asked to pay hundreds of dollars more than face value. “Basically, Ticketmaster is operating as StubHub,” says one concert-business source.


Swift is not alone. This summer, U2, Kenny Chesney, Pink, the Eagles and Shania Twain will also embrace dynamic pricing (which Ticketmaster calls Official Platinum Seats). It’s their latest attempt to battle resellers like StubHub, the eBay-owned site, which had sales of more than $1 billion in 2016. “You
 can go and buy tickets and then put them on StubHub and speculate for three to five times their face value – [that’s] their entire industry,” says Stuart Ross of Red Light Management, which reps Dave Matthews Band, Phish and more. Doc McGhee, who manages KISS, sees why Ticketmaster needed to take action: “If somebody’s going to pay $500 for a $150 ticket, the band should receive the money.”

Not everyone agrees. Some artists, like Foo Fighters and Pearl Jam, have opted out of using the dynamic-pricing model, as have smaller, indie artists like Father John Misty. “An artist like Father John Misty is very ticket-price-conscious,” says his manager, Dan Fraser. “Just because more people are willing to pay for a ticket, he doesn’t want to [charge it] … He’ll leave money on the table.”

“The industry is adopting a new mantra,” says a concert-industry expert. “If you sell out quickly, you didn’t price tickets properly.”

The program has forced promoters to rethink what a successful concert means in 2018. While Swift’s entire 2015 1989 tour sold out almost instantly, there are plenty of seats available for most of her Reputation shows. One veteran promoter says it’s selling “terribly – the worst scaling and flexible pricing I have ever seen for a stadium tour.” But others say she’s just playing a long game. “Don’t put too much emphasis on the fact she hasn’t sold out yet,” says Gary Bongiovanni, the editor-in-chief of concert trade publication Pollstar. “The industry is adopting a new mantra,” says a concert-industry expert. “If you sell out quickly, you didn’t price tickets properly.” (Swift’s representative declined to comment for the story.)

But the system can be confusing for fans. In addition to dynamic-priced tickets, Swift’s tour is offering seats on an interactive map through a menagerie of dots – yellow for VIP ($500-$900), pink for approved fan resales (which can list for thousands of dollars), blue for standard face-value tickets ($50-$450). “It’s kind of complicated,” says Alex Hodges, CEO of Nederlander Concerts in Los Angeles, suggesting that the astronomical prices may cause fans to “get skittish and back off.”

But
experts see the plan as a necessary way to hold on to profits as the entire
industry goes through a sea change. “Does the airline want to sell out all
tickets and be done with that flight?” says one source. “Or do they
want to sell them at $700 and [eventually] sell every seat? It’s that kind of
situation.” Adds another expert, “[Concert tickets] just caught up to
hotels, airfares and rental cars. It’s a cultural change and an acceptance of
resellers.”

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/musi ... nd-630218/

[Much Too Soon]

February 13 - Gila River Arena, Glendale, AZ
Reported audience: 9,068 / 15,000 (60.45%)
Reported gross: $1,223,363

I’m AMAZED.

I'm not. Higher (i.e. absurd) ticket prices will do that. But I digress.

What I AM surprised at is they actually made 15,000 tickets AVAILABLE??? The "capacity" for most end-stage gigs is 16,000, while the true capacity itself is a little over 18,000. As I said earlier, the current lineup could NEVER sell that many tickets in AZ. (at those ridiculous prices).

Be that as it may, I wasn't far off when I said it likely was similar to Alive 35 in 2009. Roughly 1000 less for this tour.

I was talking solely about how poor sales were out the gate compared to where they ended up. The diagram below shows this date was EXTREMELY soft to put it kindly.

I’m not surprised that this date had the biggest drop in attendance venue wise when matched up against Alive 35. While most markets went up, the 1,808 decrease (16.62%) was the highest across the board. By far.

What shocks me is that KISS ended up getting ~9,000 people to purchase seats at such a high ticket average. Live Nation can fill up any venue in a moments notice if they really wanted to. What they can’t do is force people on how much money they want to spend. The $134.90 price per ticket average shows that’s a legitimate 9,068 bodies in attendance.

Amazing.

I really can’t wait to see if this holds true with some of the “softer” dates on the second U.S. leg.

Stay tuned.

The band WANTS sales to be slow out of the gate. A run in seats early means they priced the tickets too low. They meter it down nickel by nickel then suddenly sales start trickling....drop another nickel...it starts flowing.....etc.Thats why second leg dates are way too early to make determinations and predictions as some here like to do.

[Crown Royal]

The band WANTS sales to be slow out of the gate.

This place can be comic gold at times

[drdelaware]

I don't care about how much money Gene and Paul are making. It still doesn't justify faking vocals. Some of the best Kiss shows ever were far from sellouts.

[Much Too Soon]

”Don’t put too much emphasis on the fact she (Taylor Swift) hasn’t sold out yet,”says Gary Bongiovanni, the editor-in-chief of concert trade publication Pollstar. “The industry is adopting a new mantra,” says a concert-industry expert. “If you sell out quickly, you didn’t price tickets properly.”

[Vandelay Industries]

The band WANTS sales to be slow out of the gate.

This place can be comic gold at times

So let me get this straight....if sales are slow out of the gate, the solution is to charge more?

[Vandelay Industries]

”Don’t put too much emphasis on the fact she (Taylor Swift) hasn’t sold out yet,”says Gary Bongiovanni, the editor-in-chief of concert trade publication Pollstar. “The industry is adopting a new mantra,” says a concert-industry expert. “If you sell out quickly, you didn’t price tickets properly.”

Sounds like some poli-speak to me. If you sell out quickly, perhaps it's true that you didn't price tickets properly (if that band/management's intent is to bleed every dollar out of the fans, that is)....but that doesn't automatically mean you ARE pricing tickets properly if you DON'T sell out quickly. My god, the hilarity on this board sometimes

[nibbler1982]

”Don’t put too much emphasis on the fact she (Taylor Swift) hasn’t sold out yet,”says Gary Bongiovanni, the editor-in-chief of concert trade publication Pollstar. “The industry is adopting a new mantra,” says a concert-industry expert. “If you sell out quickly, you didn’t price tickets properly.”

Sounds like some poli-speak to me. If you sell out quickly, perhaps it's true that you didn't price tickets properly (if that band/management's intent is to bleed every dollar out of the fans, that is)....but that doesn't automatically mean you ARE pricing tickets properly if you DON'T sell out quickly. My god, the hilarity on this board sometimes

As much as it galls me I’m gonna have to agree with that last part.

[Mr. Kiss]

February 13 - Gila River Arena, Glendale, AZ
Reported audience: 9,068 / 15,000 (60.45%)
Reported gross: $1,223,363

I’m AMAZED.

I'm not. Higher (i.e. absurd) ticket prices will do that. But I digress.

What I AM surprised at is they actually made 15,000 tickets AVAILABLE??? The "capacity" for most end-stage gigs is 16,000, while the true capacity itself is a little over 18,000. As I said earlier, the current lineup could NEVER sell that many tickets in AZ. (at those ridiculous prices).

Be that as it may, I wasn't far off when I said it likely was similar to Alive 35 in 2009. Roughly 1000 less for this tour.

I was talking solely about how poor sales were out the gate compared to where they ended up. The diagram below shows this date was EXTREMELY soft to put it kindly.

I’m not surprised that this date had the biggest drop in attendance venue wise when matched up against Alive 35. While most markets went up, the 1,808 decrease (16.62%) was the highest across the board. By far.

What shocks me is that KISS ended up getting ~9,000 people to purchase seats at such a high ticket average. Live Nation can fill up any venue in a moments notice if they really wanted to. What they can’t do is force people on how much money they want to spend. The $134.90 price per ticket average shows that’s a legitimate 9,068 bodies in attendance.

Amazing.

I really can’t wait to see if this holds true with some of the “softer” dates on the second U.S. leg.

Stay tuned.

Edit:

And most end stage configurations in your boilerplate NHL sized arenas IS NOT 16,000.

It’s more in the 13,500 range. It all depends on how many side/rear stage sections you choose to make available.

To clarify, I was just referring to Glendale Arena's end-stage setups. I agree that most (older) arenas in America are in the 14,000 range for concerts, give or take.

In years' past (Glendale) shows by U2, Springsteen, Prince, and Elton John were at 16,000 "capacity" (i.e. amount of tickets made available). Of course, all those artists are the exception .. not the rule. Thanks for responding. Respect.

[nibbler1982]

February 13 - Gila River Arena, Glendale, AZ
Reported audience: 9,068 / 15,000 (60.45%)
Reported gross: $1,223,363

I’m AMAZED.

I'm not. Higher (i.e. absurd) ticket prices will do that. But I digress.

What I AM surprised at is they actually made 15,000 tickets AVAILABLE??? The "capacity" for most end-stage gigs is 16,000, while the true capacity itself is a little over 18,000. As I said earlier, the current lineup could NEVER sell that many tickets in AZ. (at those ridiculous prices).

Be that as it may, I wasn't far off when I said it likely was similar to Alive 35 in 2009. Roughly 1000 less for this tour.

I was talking solely about how poor sales were out the gate compared to where they ended up. The diagram below shows this date was EXTREMELY soft to put it kindly.

I’m not surprised that this date had the biggest drop in attendance venue wise when matched up against Alive 35. While most markets went up, the 1,808 decrease (16.62%) was the highest across the board. By far.

What shocks me is that KISS ended up getting ~9,000 people to purchase seats at such a high ticket average. Live Nation can fill up any venue in a moments notice if they really wanted to. What they can’t do is force people on how much money they want to spend. The $134.90 price per ticket average shows that’s a legitimate 9,068 bodies in attendance.

Amazing.

I really can’t wait to see if this holds true with some of the “softer” dates on the second U.S. leg.

Stay tuned.

Edit:

And most end stage configurations in your boilerplate NHL sized arenas IS NOT 16,000.

It’s more in the 13,500 range. It all depends on how many side/rear stage sections you choose to make available.

To clarify, I was just referring to Glendale Arena's end-stage setups. I agree that most (older) arenas in America are in the 14,000 range for concerts, give or take.

In years' past (Glendale) shows by U2, Springsteen, Prince, and Elton John were at 16,000 "capacity" (i.e. amount of tickets made available). Of course, all those artists are the exception .. not the rule. Thanks for responding. Respect.

No disrespect Brother Mister, but I think some of your data is askew. I believe this misnomer falls into the “people believe arena’s end stage configurations are larger than they actually are” category.

First off, Gila River Arena is not that large...comparatively speaking that is. When stacked up against the 31 NHL arenas out there I believe Glendale comes in at 27 as per capacity. Meaning there are only 4 out of 31 arenas hosting NHL teams that are smaller.

Secondly, as when know there are many different “end stage” configurations for concerts. But as I said above, most fall in the ~13,500 category. Gila River Arena is no different.

Elton John
Gila River Arena
Glendale, Ariz.
Jan. 26, 2019
$1,864,926
13,899 / 13,899

Pink
Gila River Arena
Glendale, Ariz.
March 30, 2019
$2,363,364
13,737 / 13,737

Ed Sheeran, James Blunt
Gila River Arena
Glendale, Ariz.
Aug. 5, 2017
$1,239,478
13,654 / 13,654

Red Hot Chili Peppers, Trombone Shorty
Gila River Arena
Glendale, Ariz.
Oct. 18, 2017
$1,273,486
13,343 / 13,343

Roger Waters
Gila River Arena
Glendale, Ariz.
June 14, 2017
$1,422,541
11,682 / 11,682

Madonna, Michael Diamond
Gila River Arena
Glendale, Ariz.
Oct. 22, 2015
$1,307,510
10,393 / 10,393

Tim McGraw & Faith Hill
Gila River Arena
Glendale, Ariz.
July 21, 2017
$1,264,313
13,540 / 13,540

Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Band
Jobing.com Arena
Glendale, Ariz.
Dec. 6, 2012
$1,197,272
12,660 / 12,660

[Crown Royal]

Brother Mister

[nibbler1982]

I know there are some that want to insist sales are soft and the tour isn't selling well, but I've yet to see anyone post pictures of an arena that looks like the sales were soft, or that sections that were closed off (or sparsely full).

I agree with your sentiment, although I wouldn’t put too much stock in the fact that “pics show packed arenas”

Live Nation can fill an arena in 24 hours if the really want to. Their papering skills are second to none. The final word is in the boxscore. The tell tale sign of such trickeration (it’s a Don King term ) is in the average ticket price. When you see an abnormally low average price per ticket coupled with a robust attendance figure, the proof is in the pudding.

I’ve yet to see it so far on EOTR. I thought for sure it was gonna be in Glendale. I believed were gonna see numbers like 9,598/$580,873.

I’m still thoroughly amazed we didn’t.

[Vandelay Industries]

I have several thoughts & questions, but I'm occupied at work, so I'll post 'em one at a time, lol...

Are the total grosses reported the "shopping cart" ticket prices, or the "checkout" prices? Might seem like a nitpicky question, but there IS a 25% difference between one and the other...

[Evo999]

Cmon...ticket prices determine sales. Revenue pricing is a different ballgame than your average 1970s gig. The management is using pretty sophisticated computer modeling to price each seat and update it almost hourly. In essence KISS ...say for Dallas ... for example was estimated to bring in a certain range of dollars. The modeling was used to price seats properly to bring in the higher range of dollars. And it’s working. Working nationwide and looks like worldwide as well.

In other words KISS is currently making 97% of the available dollars that are estimated to be made and selling 97% of the available seats .... to reach that objective. The band is KICKING ASS.
————————————————————————————————————-————————————————————-
NEWS
APRIL 9, 2018 2:59PM ET

Taylor Swift’s Ticket Strategy: Brilliant Business or Slowing Demand?

If you went on Ticketmaster in January and pulled up a third-row seat for Taylor Swift‘s June 2nd show at Chicago’s Soldier Field, it would have cost you $995. But if you looked up the same seat three months later, the price would have been $595. That’s because Swift has adopted “dynamic pricing,” where concert tickets – like airline seats – shift prices constantly in adjusting to market demand. It’s a move intended to squeeze out the secondary-ticket market – but it’s also left many fans confused as they’re asked to pay hundreds of dollars more than face value. “Basically, Ticketmaster is operating as StubHub,” says one concert-business source.


Swift is not alone. This summer, U2, Kenny Chesney, Pink, the Eagles and Shania Twain will also embrace dynamic pricing (which Ticketmaster calls Official Platinum Seats). It’s their latest attempt to battle resellers like StubHub, the eBay-owned site, which had sales of more than $1 billion in 2016. “You
 can go and buy tickets and then put them on StubHub and speculate for three to five times their face value – [that’s] their entire industry,” says Stuart Ross of Red Light Management, which reps Dave Matthews Band, Phish and more. Doc McGhee, who manages KISS, sees why Ticketmaster needed to take action: “If somebody’s going to pay $500 for a $150 ticket, the band should receive the money.”

Not everyone agrees. Some artists, like Foo Fighters and Pearl Jam, have opted out of using the dynamic-pricing model, as have smaller, indie artists like Father John Misty. “An artist like Father John Misty is very ticket-price-conscious,” says his manager, Dan Fraser. “Just because more people are willing to pay for a ticket, he doesn’t want to [charge it] … He’ll leave money on the table.”

“The industry is adopting a new mantra,” says a concert-industry expert. “If you sell out quickly, you didn’t price tickets properly.”

The program has forced promoters to rethink what a successful concert means in 2018. While Swift’s entire 2015 1989 tour sold out almost instantly, there are plenty of seats available for most of her Reputation shows. One veteran promoter says it’s selling “terribly – the worst scaling and flexible pricing I have ever seen for a stadium tour.” But others say she’s just playing a long game. “Don’t put too much emphasis on the fact she hasn’t sold out yet,” says Gary Bongiovanni, the editor-in-chief of concert trade publication Pollstar. “The industry is adopting a new mantra,” says a concert-industry expert. “If you sell out quickly, you didn’t price tickets properly.” (Swift’s representative declined to comment for the story.)

But the system can be confusing for fans. In addition to dynamic-priced tickets, Swift’s tour is offering seats on an interactive map through a menagerie of dots – yellow for VIP ($500-$900), pink for approved fan resales (which can list for thousands of dollars), blue for standard face-value tickets ($50-$450). “It’s kind of complicated,” says Alex Hodges, CEO of Nederlander Concerts in Los Angeles, suggesting that the astronomical prices may cause fans to “get skittish and back off.”

But
experts see the plan as a necessary way to hold on to profits as the entire
industry goes through a sea change. “Does the airline want to sell out all
tickets and be done with that flight?” says one source. “Or do they
want to sell them at $700 and [eventually] sell every seat? It’s that kind of
situation.” Adds another expert, “[Concert tickets] just caught up to
hotels, airfares and rental cars. It’s a cultural change and an acceptance of
resellers.”

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/musi ... nd-630218/

This pretty well confirms everything Nibbler was saying about Ticket pricing strategies back at the start of this tour, and was mocked by some here for it.

[Vandelay Industries]

Cmon...ticket prices determine sales. Revenue pricing is a different ballgame than your average 1970s gig. The management is using pretty sophisticated computer modeling to price each seat and update it almost hourly. In essence KISS ...say for Dallas ... for example was estimated to bring in a certain range of dollars. The modeling was used to price seats properly to bring in the higher range of dollars. And it’s working. Working nationwide and looks like worldwide as well.

In other words KISS is currently making 97% of the available dollars that are estimated to be made and selling 97% of the available seats .... to reach that objective. The band is KICKING ASS.
————————————————————————————————————-————————————————————-
NEWS
APRIL 9, 2018 2:59PM ET

Taylor Swift’s Ticket Strategy: Brilliant Business or Slowing Demand?

If you went on Ticketmaster in January and pulled up a third-row seat for Taylor Swift‘s June 2nd show at Chicago’s Soldier Field, it would have cost you $995. But if you looked up the same seat three months later, the price would have been $595. That’s because Swift has adopted “dynamic pricing,” where concert tickets – like airline seats – shift prices constantly in adjusting to market demand. It’s a move intended to squeeze out the secondary-ticket market – but it’s also left many fans confused as they’re asked to pay hundreds of dollars more than face value. “Basically, Ticketmaster is operating as StubHub,” says one concert-business source.


Swift is not alone. This summer, U2, Kenny Chesney, Pink, the Eagles and Shania Twain will also embrace dynamic pricing (which Ticketmaster calls Official Platinum Seats). It’s their latest attempt to battle resellers like StubHub, the eBay-owned site, which had sales of more than $1 billion in 2016. “You
 can go and buy tickets and then put them on StubHub and speculate for three to five times their face value – [that’s] their entire industry,” says Stuart Ross of Red Light Management, which reps Dave Matthews Band, Phish and more. Doc McGhee, who manages KISS, sees why Ticketmaster needed to take action: “If somebody’s going to pay $500 for a $150 ticket, the band should receive the money.”

Not everyone agrees. Some artists, like Foo Fighters and Pearl Jam, have opted out of using the dynamic-pricing model, as have smaller, indie artists like Father John Misty. “An artist like Father John Misty is very ticket-price-conscious,” says his manager, Dan Fraser. “Just because more people are willing to pay for a ticket, he doesn’t want to [charge it] … He’ll leave money on the table.”

“The industry is adopting a new mantra,” says a concert-industry expert. “If you sell out quickly, you didn’t price tickets properly.”

The program has forced promoters to rethink what a successful concert means in 2018. While Swift’s entire 2015 1989 tour sold out almost instantly, there are plenty of seats available for most of her Reputation shows. One veteran promoter says it’s selling “terribly – the worst scaling and flexible pricing I have ever seen for a stadium tour.” But others say she’s just playing a long game. “Don’t put too much emphasis on the fact she hasn’t sold out yet,” says Gary Bongiovanni, the editor-in-chief of concert trade publication Pollstar. “The industry is adopting a new mantra,” says a concert-industry expert. “If you sell out quickly, you didn’t price tickets properly.” (Swift’s representative declined to comment for the story.)

But the system can be confusing for fans. In addition to dynamic-priced tickets, Swift’s tour is offering seats on an interactive map through a menagerie of dots – yellow for VIP ($500-$900), pink for approved fan resales (which can list for thousands of dollars), blue for standard face-value tickets ($50-$450). “It’s kind of complicated,” says Alex Hodges, CEO of Nederlander Concerts in Los Angeles, suggesting that the astronomical prices may cause fans to “get skittish and back off.”

But
experts see the plan as a necessary way to hold on to profits as the entire
industry goes through a sea change. “Does the airline want to sell out all
tickets and be done with that flight?” says one source. “Or do they
want to sell them at $700 and [eventually] sell every seat? It’s that kind of
situation.” Adds another expert, “[Concert tickets] just caught up to
hotels, airfares and rental cars. It’s a cultural change and an acceptance of
resellers.”

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/musi ... nd-630218/

This pretty well confirms everything Nibbler was saying about Ticket pricing strategies back at the start of this tour, and was mocked by some here for it.

Difference being, you're at the mercy of Ticketmaster's prices, unlike hotels and airlines, where competition still keeps the prices somewhat honest (comparatively speaking anyway, lol)...

IMO, jury's still out if this strategy will work in the long haul. Might be effective with artists who are nearing the end of the road so to speak, but we'll see how sustainable it is for artists who are thinking the long game, with many more tours still in them...

[acefan1975]

I have several thoughts & questions, but I'm occupied at work, so I'll post 'em one at a time, lol...

Are the total grosses reported the "shopping cart" ticket prices, or the "checkout" prices? Might seem like a nitpicky question, but there IS a 25% difference between one and the other...

Thats a good question. I would like to know that too. Although probably all tour reports are done in the same way I would guess?

[redinthesky]

Cmon...ticket prices determine sales. Revenue pricing is a different ballgame than your average 1970s gig. The management is using pretty sophisticated computer modeling to price each seat and update it almost hourly. In essence KISS ...say for Dallas ... for example was estimated to bring in a certain range of dollars. The modeling was used to price seats properly to bring in the higher range of dollars. And it’s working. Working nationwide and looks like worldwide as well.

In other words KISS is currently making 97% of the available dollars that are estimated to be made and selling 97% of the available seats .... to reach that objective. The band is KICKING ASS.
————————————————————————————————————-————————————————————-
NEWS
APRIL 9, 2018 2:59PM ET

Taylor Swift’s Ticket Strategy: Brilliant Business or Slowing Demand?

If you went on Ticketmaster in January and pulled up a third-row seat for Taylor Swift‘s June 2nd show at Chicago’s Soldier Field, it would have cost you $995. But if you looked up the same seat three months later, the price would have been $595. That’s because Swift has adopted “dynamic pricing,” where concert tickets – like airline seats – shift prices constantly in adjusting to market demand. It’s a move intended to squeeze out the secondary-ticket market – but it’s also left many fans confused as they’re asked to pay hundreds of dollars more than face value. “Basically, Ticketmaster is operating as StubHub,” says one concert-business source.


Swift is not alone. This summer, U2, Kenny Chesney, Pink, the Eagles and Shania Twain will also embrace dynamic pricing (which Ticketmaster calls Official Platinum Seats). It’s their latest attempt to battle resellers like StubHub, the eBay-owned site, which had sales of more than $1 billion in 2016. “You
 can go and buy tickets and then put them on StubHub and speculate for three to five times their face value – [that’s] their entire industry,” says Stuart Ross of Red Light Management, which reps Dave Matthews Band, Phish and more. Doc McGhee, who manages KISS, sees why Ticketmaster needed to take action: “If somebody’s going to pay $500 for a $150 ticket, the band should receive the money.”

Not everyone agrees. Some artists, like Foo Fighters and Pearl Jam, have opted out of using the dynamic-pricing model, as have smaller, indie artists like Father John Misty. “An artist like Father John Misty is very ticket-price-conscious,” says his manager, Dan Fraser. “Just because more people are willing to pay for a ticket, he doesn’t want to [charge it] … He’ll leave money on the table.”

“The industry is adopting a new mantra,” says a concert-industry expert. “If you sell out quickly, you didn’t price tickets properly.”

The program has forced promoters to rethink what a successful concert means in 2018. While Swift’s entire 2015 1989 tour sold out almost instantly, there are plenty of seats available for most of her Reputation shows. One veteran promoter says it’s selling “terribly – the worst scaling and flexible pricing I have ever seen for a stadium tour.” But others say she’s just playing a long game. “Don’t put too much emphasis on the fact she hasn’t sold out yet,” says Gary Bongiovanni, the editor-in-chief of concert trade publication Pollstar. “The industry is adopting a new mantra,” says a concert-industry expert. “If you sell out quickly, you didn’t price tickets properly.” (Swift’s representative declined to comment for the story.)

But the system can be confusing for fans. In addition to dynamic-priced tickets, Swift’s tour is offering seats on an interactive map through a menagerie of dots – yellow for VIP ($500-$900), pink for approved fan resales (which can list for thousands of dollars), blue for standard face-value tickets ($50-$450). “It’s kind of complicated,” says Alex Hodges, CEO of Nederlander Concerts in Los Angeles, suggesting that the astronomical prices may cause fans to “get skittish and back off.”

But
experts see the plan as a necessary way to hold on to profits as the entire
industry goes through a sea change. “Does the airline want to sell out all
tickets and be done with that flight?” says one source. “Or do they
want to sell them at $700 and [eventually] sell every seat? It’s that kind of
situation.” Adds another expert, “[Concert tickets] just caught up to
hotels, airfares and rental cars. It’s a cultural change and an acceptance of
resellers.”

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/musi ... nd-630218/

This pretty well confirms everything Nibbler was saying about Ticket pricing strategies back at the start of this tour, and was mocked by some here for it.

So, just to give one example, when I saw a person pay $250 for a formerly $750 ticket at 6:30pm the night of the Kiss Nassau Coliseum show, do you think the promoter was saying, "I'm sure glad we didn't sell that ticket for $750 when it first went on sale, because we just got $250 for it now?"

[Vandelay Industries]

Cmon...ticket prices determine sales. Revenue pricing is a different ballgame than your average 1970s gig. The management is using pretty sophisticated computer modeling to price each seat and update it almost hourly. In essence KISS ...say for Dallas ... for example was estimated to bring in a certain range of dollars. The modeling was used to price seats properly to bring in the higher range of dollars. And it’s working. Working nationwide and looks like worldwide as well.

In other words KISS is currently making 97% of the available dollars that are estimated to be made and selling 97% of the available seats .... to reach that objective. The band is KICKING ASS.
————————————————————————————————————-————————————————————-
NEWS
APRIL 9, 2018 2:59PM ET

Taylor Swift’s Ticket Strategy: Brilliant Business or Slowing Demand?

If you went on Ticketmaster in January and pulled up a third-row seat for Taylor Swift‘s June 2nd show at Chicago’s Soldier Field, it would have cost you $995. But if you looked up the same seat three months later, the price would have been $595. That’s because Swift has adopted “dynamic pricing,” where concert tickets – like airline seats – shift prices constantly in adjusting to market demand. It’s a move intended to squeeze out the secondary-ticket market – but it’s also left many fans confused as they’re asked to pay hundreds of dollars more than face value. “Basically, Ticketmaster is operating as StubHub,” says one concert-business source.


Swift is not alone. This summer, U2, Kenny Chesney, Pink, the Eagles and Shania Twain will also embrace dynamic pricing (which Ticketmaster calls Official Platinum Seats). It’s their latest attempt to battle resellers like StubHub, the eBay-owned site, which had sales of more than $1 billion in 2016. “You
 can go and buy tickets and then put them on StubHub and speculate for three to five times their face value – [that’s] their entire industry,” says Stuart Ross of Red Light Management, which reps Dave Matthews Band, Phish and more. Doc McGhee, who manages KISS, sees why Ticketmaster needed to take action: “If somebody’s going to pay $500 for a $150 ticket, the band should receive the money.”

Not everyone agrees. Some artists, like Foo Fighters and Pearl Jam, have opted out of using the dynamic-pricing model, as have smaller, indie artists like Father John Misty. “An artist like Father John Misty is very ticket-price-conscious,” says his manager, Dan Fraser. “Just because more people are willing to pay for a ticket, he doesn’t want to [charge it] … He’ll leave money on the table.”

“The industry is adopting a new mantra,” says a concert-industry expert. “If you sell out quickly, you didn’t price tickets properly.”

The program has forced promoters to rethink what a successful concert means in 2018. While Swift’s entire 2015 1989 tour sold out almost instantly, there are plenty of seats available for most of her Reputation shows. One veteran promoter says it’s selling “terribly – the worst scaling and flexible pricing I have ever seen for a stadium tour.” But others say she’s just playing a long game. “Don’t put too much emphasis on the fact she hasn’t sold out yet,” says Gary Bongiovanni, the editor-in-chief of concert trade publication Pollstar. “The industry is adopting a new mantra,” says a concert-industry expert. “If you sell out quickly, you didn’t price tickets properly.” (Swift’s representative declined to comment for the story.)

But the system can be confusing for fans. In addition to dynamic-priced tickets, Swift’s tour is offering seats on an interactive map through a menagerie of dots – yellow for VIP ($500-$900), pink for approved fan resales (which can list for thousands of dollars), blue for standard face-value tickets ($50-$450). “It’s kind of complicated,” says Alex Hodges, CEO of Nederlander Concerts in Los Angeles, suggesting that the astronomical prices may cause fans to “get skittish and back off.”

But
experts see the plan as a necessary way to hold on to profits as the entire
industry goes through a sea change. “Does the airline want to sell out all
tickets and be done with that flight?” says one source. “Or do they
want to sell them at $700 and [eventually] sell every seat? It’s that kind of
situation.” Adds another expert, “[Concert tickets] just caught up to
hotels, airfares and rental cars. It’s a cultural change and an acceptance of
resellers.”

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/musi ... nd-630218/

This pretty well confirms everything Nibbler was saying about Ticket pricing strategies back at the start of this tour, and was mocked by some here for it.

So, just to give one example, when I saw a person pay $250 for a formerly $750 ticket at 6:30pm the night of the Kiss Nassau Coliseum show, do you think the promoter was saying, "I'm sure glad we didn't sell that ticket for $750 when it first went on sale, because we just got $250 for it now?"

That's what I'm thinking too. It'd be one thing if a band had a Tiger Stadium 96 or MSG 96-type sellout in 45 minutes, then I can see people thinking "hmm, we probably could've charged more for those tickets"....but any other scenario, what other direction is there to go but downward?

[Vandelay Industries]

I'm conducting my own little experiment to see how much disparity there is between pre-show average ticket price vs. reported gross average ticket price. Right now, the lowest priced ticket in Charleston is $119.50 (before fees). I also did some dot counting for the first 3 rows (but only 3 rows...I bailed out from boredom after that, lol), and theres a potential for $125,000 gross, just for those 3 rows! So, when the final tally eventually gets reported, I'll be taking these things into consideration when determining how papered this show will be

[Crown Royal]

... I also did some dot counting ...

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!





We lost a good one

[Vandelay Industries]

... I also did some dot counting ...

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!





We lost a good one

I quickly had to wave the white flag, tho. I'll just leave it to the experts, lol

[redinthesky]

So, just to give one example, when I saw a person pay $250 for a formerly $750 ticket at 6:30pm the night of the Kiss Nassau Coliseum show, do you think the promoter was saying, "I'm sure glad we didn't sell that ticket for $750 when it first went on sale, because we just got $250 for it now?"

That's what I'm thinking too. It'd be one thing if a band had a Tiger Stadium 96 or MSG 96-type sellout in 45 minutes, then I can see people thinking "hmm, we probably could've charged more for those tickets"....but any other scenario, what other direction is there to go but downward?

That quote of "If you sell out quickly, you didn’t price tickets properly" is completely asinine. If you vastly overprice a ticket, it won't be sold until it goes down in price anyway and then someone buys it. Extremely popular artists like The Stones, Spice Girls, etc will sell fast, but there's always a limit to what some will spend. One can always say, "Wow those Stones $2000 seats went immediately, we should have made them $2500!" But should they have? You price what you think you can get. No mystic can say how much more any ticket could have been priced.

[Vandelay Industries]

So, just to give one example, when I saw a person pay $250 for a formerly $750 ticket at 6:30pm the night of the Kiss Nassau Coliseum show, do you think the promoter was saying, "I'm sure glad we didn't sell that ticket for $750 when it first went on sale, because we just got $250 for it now?"

That's what I'm thinking too. It'd be one thing if a band had a Tiger Stadium 96 or MSG 96-type sellout in 45 minutes, then I can see people thinking "hmm, we probably could've charged more for those tickets"....but any other scenario, what other direction is there to go but downward?

That quote of "If you sell out quickly, you didn’t price tickets properly" is completely asinine. If you vastly overprice a ticket, it won't be sold until it goes down in price anyway and then someone buys it. Extremely popular artists like The Stones, Spice Girls, etc will sell fast, but there's always a limit to what some will spend. One can always say, "Wow those Stones $2000 seats went immediately, we should have made them $2500!" But should they have? You price what you think you can get. No mystic can say how much more any ticket could have been priced.

Agreed. That quote just sounds like a lame attempt at spin doctoring to me. A "concert industry expert" (anonymous, no less) taking up for the concert industry? Shocking!!! I guess it worked on at least one poster here, so mission accomplished lol...

[nibbler1982]

I'm conducting my own little experiment to see how much disparity there is between pre-show average ticket price vs. reported gross average ticket price. Right now, the lowest priced ticket in Charleston is $119.50 (before fees). I also did some dot counting for the first 3 rows (but only 3 rows...I bailed out from boredom after that, lol), and theres a potential for $125,000 gross, just for those 3 rows! So, when the final tally eventually gets reported, I'll be taking these things into consideration when determining how papered this show will be

It’s a potential $108,000...but like you said in another post, you should leave it to the experts.

That is if all those seats were made available to the public. More than likely there are some high end comps in there too.

Also factor in the $59.50, $74.50, and $94.50 seats that are under the $119.50 tickets you already mentioned. Speaking of factoring in...

How the heck are you gonna come up with a “pre-show average ticket price”?

How are you gonna figure out how many tickets there are in each price tier?

I study pre show sales pretty vigorously. I’m extremely intrigued to your methods and ultimately what number you’re finally gonna arrive upon for Charleston’s pre show average.

Keep us posted.

[nibbler1982]

Cmon...ticket prices determine sales. Revenue pricing is a different ballgame than your average 1970s gig. The management is using pretty sophisticated computer modeling to price each seat and update it almost hourly. In essence KISS ...say for Dallas ... for example was estimated to bring in a certain range of dollars. The modeling was used to price seats properly to bring in the higher range of dollars. And it’s working. Working nationwide and looks like worldwide as well.

In other words KISS is currently making 97% of the available dollars that are estimated to be made and selling 97% of the available seats .... to reach that objective. The band is KICKING ASS.
————————————————————————————————————-————————————————————-
NEWS
APRIL 9, 2018 2:59PM ET

Taylor Swift’s Ticket Strategy: Brilliant Business or Slowing Demand?

If you went on Ticketmaster in January and pulled up a third-row seat for Taylor Swift‘s June 2nd show at Chicago’s Soldier Field, it would have cost you $995. But if you looked up the same seat three months later, the price would have been $595. That’s because Swift has adopted “dynamic pricing,” where concert tickets – like airline seats – shift prices constantly in adjusting to market demand. It’s a move intended to squeeze out the secondary-ticket market – but it’s also left many fans confused as they’re asked to pay hundreds of dollars more than face value. “Basically, Ticketmaster is operating as StubHub,” says one concert-business source.


Swift is not alone. This summer, U2, Kenny Chesney, Pink, the Eagles and Shania Twain will also embrace dynamic pricing (which Ticketmaster calls Official Platinum Seats). It’s their latest attempt to battle resellers like StubHub, the eBay-owned site, which had sales of more than $1 billion in 2016. “You
 can go and buy tickets and then put them on StubHub and speculate for three to five times their face value – [that’s] their entire industry,” says Stuart Ross of Red Light Management, which reps Dave Matthews Band, Phish and more. Doc McGhee, who manages KISS, sees why Ticketmaster needed to take action: “If somebody’s going to pay $500 for a $150 ticket, the band should receive the money.”

Not everyone agrees. Some artists, like Foo Fighters and Pearl Jam, have opted out of using the dynamic-pricing model, as have smaller, indie artists like Father John Misty. “An artist like Father John Misty is very ticket-price-conscious,” says his manager, Dan Fraser. “Just because more people are willing to pay for a ticket, he doesn’t want to [charge it] … He’ll leave money on the table.”

“The industry is adopting a new mantra,” says a concert-industry expert. “If you sell out quickly, you didn’t price tickets properly.”

The program has forced promoters to rethink what a successful concert means in 2018. While Swift’s entire 2015 1989 tour sold out almost instantly, there are plenty of seats available for most of her Reputation shows. One veteran promoter says it’s selling “terribly – the worst scaling and flexible pricing I have ever seen for a stadium tour.” But others say she’s just playing a long game. “Don’t put too much emphasis on the fact she hasn’t sold out yet,” says Gary Bongiovanni, the editor-in-chief of concert trade publication Pollstar. “The industry is adopting a new mantra,” says a concert-industry expert. “If you sell out quickly, you didn’t price tickets properly.” (Swift’s representative declined to comment for the story.)

But the system can be confusing for fans. In addition to dynamic-priced tickets, Swift’s tour is offering seats on an interactive map through a menagerie of dots – yellow for VIP ($500-$900), pink for approved fan resales (which can list for thousands of dollars), blue for standard face-value tickets ($50-$450). “It’s kind of complicated,” says Alex Hodges, CEO of Nederlander Concerts in Los Angeles, suggesting that the astronomical prices may cause fans to “get skittish and back off.”

But
experts see the plan as a necessary way to hold on to profits as the entire
industry goes through a sea change. “Does the airline want to sell out all
tickets and be done with that flight?” says one source. “Or do they
want to sell them at $700 and [eventually] sell every seat? It’s that kind of
situation.” Adds another expert, “[Concert tickets] just caught up to
hotels, airfares and rental cars. It’s a cultural change and an acceptance of
resellers.”

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/musi ... nd-630218/

This pretty well confirms everything Nibbler was saying about Ticket pricing strategies back at the start of this tour, and was mocked by some here for it.

So, just to give one example, when I saw a person pay $250 for a formerly $750 ticket at 6:30pm the night of the Kiss Nassau Coliseum show, do you think the promoter was saying, "I'm sure glad we didn't sell that ticket for $750 when it first went on sale, because we just got $250 for it now?"

That's what I'm thinking too. It'd be one thing if a band had a Tiger Stadium 96 or MSG 96-type sellout in 45 minutes, then I can see people thinking "hmm, we probably could've charged more for those tickets"....but any other scenario, what other direction is there to go but downward?

It appears the concept is beyond both your grasps.

KISS didn’t lose money by selling a few $750 seats for $250. They sold most of the $250 seats for $750!

Live Nation is trying to take the money out of the resale market by charging an exorbitant amount for prime seats. They don’t believe they’re all gonna go for that amount. Scalpers are gonna think twice before trying to make a profit on a $750 second tie KISS ticket. If stock is left over it can be reduced to what the market determines fair value. Once sold you can’t call the purchaser back and ask for more money because they sold too fast.

I’m not sure which aspect of the process you two can’t comprehend?

[redinthesky]

So, just to give one example, when I saw a person pay $250 for a formerly $750 ticket at 6:30pm the night of the Kiss Nassau Coliseum show, do you think the promoter was saying, "I'm sure glad we didn't sell that ticket for $750 when it first went on sale, because we just got $250 for it now?"

That's what I'm thinking too. It'd be one thing if a band had a Tiger Stadium 96 or MSG 96-type sellout in 45 minutes, then I can see people thinking "hmm, we probably could've charged more for those tickets"....but any other scenario, what other direction is there to go but downward?

That quote of "If you sell out quickly, you didn’t price tickets properly" is completely asinine. If you vastly overprice a ticket, it won't be sold until it goes down in price anyway and then someone buys it. Extremely popular artists like The Stones, Spice Girls, etc will sell fast, but there's always a limit to what some will spend. One can always say, "Wow those Stones $2000 seats went immediately, we should have made them $2500!" But should they have? You price what you think you can get. No mystic can say how much more any ticket could have been priced.

Agreed. That quote just sounds like a lame attempt at spin doctoring to me. A "concert industry expert" (anonymous, no less) taking up for the concert industry? Shocking!!! I guess it worked on at least one poster here, so mission accomplished lol...

It's amazing that some still can't grasp that if a ticket goes on sale for a certain price, even a highly jacked-up price, anyone involved would rather see it sold for that price than something less.

I'll go back to my example, because I saw it happen, it's a real example. $250 for a ticket that was originally $750. No one, absolutely no one, is saying, "Well jeepers creepers the seat was only worth $250 anyway, no big deal!" No, it is a big deal, especially since others paid $750 for the seats right beside it. It all comes down to which price would the benefiting parties like to sell the seat for; a) $750, or b) $250? It doesn't mean jack squat if the "market" says the seat is only worth $250 - it was put on sale for $750, so that is definitely the preferred price. They'd rather get $250 over nothing if the seat doesn't sell - but basic logic says they'd prefer $750.

I've also never purchased any ticket at ticketmaster yet where they said "Don't buy yet, it's overpriced, wait a while, or heck, we'll just take 66 percent off right now for ya."

[nibbler1982]

There are none so blind as those that will not see.

[Crown Royal]

There are none so blind as those that will not see.

Yet none of us have put you on ignore.

A little thanks might be in order, Bro 'Blitts

[nibbler1982]

Cmon...ticket prices determine sales. Revenue pricing is a different ballgame than your average 1970s gig. The management is using pretty sophisticated computer modeling to price each seat and update it almost hourly. In essence KISS ...say for Dallas ... for example was estimated to bring in a certain range of dollars. The modeling was used to price seats properly to bring in the higher range of dollars. And it’s working. Working nationwide and looks like worldwide as well.

In other words KISS is currently making 97% of the available dollars that are estimated to be made and selling 97% of the available seats .... to reach that objective. The band is KICKING ASS.
————————————————————————————————————-————————————————————-
NEWS
APRIL 9, 2018 2:59PM ET

Taylor Swift’s Ticket Strategy: Brilliant Business or Slowing Demand?

If you went on Ticketmaster in January and pulled up a third-row seat for Taylor Swift‘s June 2nd show at Chicago’s Soldier Field, it would have cost you $995. But if you looked up the same seat three months later, the price would have been $595. That’s because Swift has adopted “dynamic pricing,” where concert tickets – like airline seats – shift prices constantly in adjusting to market demand. It’s a move intended to squeeze out the secondary-ticket market – but it’s also left many fans confused as they’re asked to pay hundreds of dollars more than face value. “Basically, Ticketmaster is operating as StubHub,” says one concert-business source.


Swift is not alone. This summer, U2, Kenny Chesney, Pink, the Eagles and Shania Twain will also embrace dynamic pricing (which Ticketmaster calls Official Platinum Seats). It’s their latest attempt to battle resellers like StubHub, the eBay-owned site, which had sales of more than $1 billion in 2016. “You
 can go and buy tickets and then put them on StubHub and speculate for three to five times their face value – [that’s] their entire industry,” says Stuart Ross of Red Light Management, which reps Dave Matthews Band, Phish and more. Doc McGhee, who manages KISS, sees why Ticketmaster needed to take action: “If somebody’s going to pay $500 for a $150 ticket, the band should receive the money.”

Not everyone agrees. Some artists, like Foo Fighters and Pearl Jam, have opted out of using the dynamic-pricing model, as have smaller, indie artists like Father John Misty. “An artist like Father John Misty is very ticket-price-conscious,” says his manager, Dan Fraser. “Just because more people are willing to pay for a ticket, he doesn’t want to [charge it] … He’ll leave money on the table.”

“The industry is adopting a new mantra,” says a concert-industry expert. “If you sell out quickly, you didn’t price tickets properly.”

The program has forced promoters to rethink what a successful concert means in 2018. While Swift’s entire 2015 1989 tour sold out almost instantly, there are plenty of seats available for most of her Reputation shows. One veteran promoter says it’s selling “terribly – the worst scaling and flexible pricing I have ever seen for a stadium tour.” But others say she’s just playing a long game. “Don’t put too much emphasis on the fact she hasn’t sold out yet,” says Gary Bongiovanni, the editor-in-chief of concert trade publication Pollstar. “The industry is adopting a new mantra,” says a concert-industry expert. “If you sell out quickly, you didn’t price tickets properly.” (Swift’s representative declined to comment for the story.)

But the system can be confusing for fans. In addition to dynamic-priced tickets, Swift’s tour is offering seats on an interactive map through a menagerie of dots – yellow for VIP ($500-$900), pink for approved fan resales (which can list for thousands of dollars), blue for standard face-value tickets ($50-$450). “It’s kind of complicated,” says Alex Hodges, CEO of Nederlander Concerts in Los Angeles, suggesting that the astronomical prices may cause fans to “get skittish and back off.”

But
experts see the plan as a necessary way to hold on to profits as the entire
industry goes through a sea change. “Does the airline want to sell out all
tickets and be done with that flight?” says one source. “Or do they
want to sell them at $700 and [eventually] sell every seat? It’s that kind of
situation.” Adds another expert, “[Concert tickets] just caught up to
hotels, airfares and rental cars. It’s a cultural change and an acceptance of
resellers.”

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/musi ... nd-630218/

This pretty well confirms everything Nibbler was saying about Ticket pricing strategies back at the start of this tour, and was mocked by some here for it.

“We mock what we don’t understand.”

[Much Too Soon]

This pretty well confirms everything Nibbler was saying about Ticket pricing strategies back at the start of this tour, and was mocked by some here for it.

Indeed it does bro.....Indeed it does.

[Much Too Soon]

Ahhhahaha....

[Evo999]

So, just to give one example, when I saw a person pay $250 for a formerly $750 ticket at 6:30pm the night of the Kiss Nassau Coliseum show, do you think the promoter was saying, "I'm sure glad we didn't sell that ticket for $750 when it first went on sale, because we just got $250 for it now?"

That's what I'm thinking too. It'd be one thing if a band had a Tiger Stadium 96 or MSG 96-type sellout in 45 minutes, then I can see people thinking "hmm, we probably could've charged more for those tickets"....but any other scenario, what other direction is there to go but downward?
[/quote]


That quote of "If you sell out quickly, you didn’t price tickets properly" is completely asinine. If you vastly overprice a ticket, it won't be sold until it goes down in price anyway and then someone buys it. Extremely popular artists like The Stones, Spice Girls, etc will sell fast, but there's always a limit to what some will spend. One can always say, "Wow those Stones $2000 seats went immediately, we should have made them $2500!" But should they have? You price what you think you can get. No mystic can say how much more any ticket could have been priced.
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Agreed. That quote just sounds like a lame attempt at spin doctoring to me. A "concert industry expert" (anonymous, no less) taking up for the concert industry? Shocking!!! I guess it worked on at least one poster here, so mission accomplished lol...
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It's amazing that some still can't grasp that if a ticket goes on sale for a certain price, even a highly jacked-up price, anyone involved would rather see it sold for that price than something less.

I'll go back to my example, because I saw it happen, it's a real example. $250 for a ticket that was originally $750. No one, absolutely no one, is saying, "Well jeepers creepers the seat was only worth $250 anyway, no big deal!" No, it is a big deal, especially since others paid $750 for the seats right beside it. It all comes down to which price would the benefiting parties like to sell the seat for; a) $750, or b) $250? It doesn't mean jack squat if the "market" says the seat is only worth $250 - it was put on sale for $750, so that is definitely the preferred price. They'd rather get $250 over nothing if the seat doesn't sell - but basic logic says they'd prefer $750.

I've also never purchased any ticket at ticketmaster yet where they said "Don't buy yet, it's overpriced, wait a while, or heck, we'll just take 66 percent off right now for ya."
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Of course they would rather see it sold at the higher price, and in the initial case, they aren't saying I'm glad I didn't sell it for $750 what they are saying is I'm glad I sold the other 80% at $750, and it's worth dumping these last 20% at $250 because the total sale amount if much higher.

Say there were 1000 high end seats at $750. - that is $750,000 in sales. IF they sell - 80% of them at $750 and dump the remaining 20% at $250 - total is $615,000. The promoter is in $135,000. This is an extreme example but you can rest assured the folks in the business are running all this stuff through models to figure out what they can possibly get the market to bear to maximize that number. Bottom line: fewer seats sold at the highest possible price can net out more than lots of underpriced seats. Especially for a band as greedy as Kiss, that's the bottom line, Paul's ego notwithstanding.

That's the gist of what Nibbs was saying way back when, If I recall, and this article would seem to prove the industry is thinking the same way. Why'll I'd never have the interest to count the dots as our buddy Nibbs does, you have to give credit where it's due. He got it right on this one.

I'm not sure why this is that hard a concept to understand. Bands and promoters care about sell-outs but they'll undoubtedly take higher guarantees/more revenue over bums in seats most of the time, as any business would.

Speaking of sell-outs, this whole pricing model is a sell-out, and gouges the most loyal fans. That's probably something most can agree with.

EDIT - and clearly, I don't know how to manipuate the quote function.

[nibbler1982]

Counting dots are easy, sometimes the quote function eludes me too!

But seriously...

The concept is so easy to understand. Anyone with rudimentary math skills should be able to comprehend it’s machinations.

[Crown Royal]

You're comparing Swift, who attempts to sell multiple nights in stadiums in many instances, to KISS. It is the epitome of apples to oranges comparison.

KISS has no chance of doing multiple nights anywhere anymore. Swift does. The marketing strategies are as different as night and day.

Nice try, though, fellas

[Vandelay Industries]

I'm conducting my own little experiment to see how much disparity there is between pre-show average ticket price vs. reported gross average ticket price. Right now, the lowest priced ticket in Charleston is $119.50 (before fees). I also did some dot counting for the first 3 rows (but only 3 rows...I bailed out from boredom after that, lol), and theres a potential for $125,000 gross, just for those 3 rows! So, when the final tally eventually gets reported, I'll be taking these things into consideration when determining how papered this show will be

It’s a potential $108,000...but like you said in another post, you should leave it to the experts.

That is if all those seats were made available to the public. More than likely there are some high end comps in there too.

Also factor in the $59.50, $74.50, and $94.50 seats that are under the $119.50 tickets you already mentioned. Speaking of factoring in...

How the heck are you gonna come up with a “pre-show average ticket price”?

How are you gonna figure out how many tickets there are in each price tier?

I study pre show sales pretty vigorously. I’m extremely intrigued to your methods and ultimately what number you’re finally gonna arrive upon for Charleston’s pre show average.

Keep us posted.

First, I'm not really gonna do a deep dive into any show, much less Charleston. I was just gonna multiply the number of tickets sold by $119.50, and hazard a guess that figure will be in the neighborhood of the actual gross, all those $200-1000 premium seat sales notwithstanding.

Second, "dynamic pricing" is just a fancier way to say "legalized scalping", so no shit that Kiss, or any band participating, will see an increase in ticket revenue. The fact tho, that anyone outside of the industry would actually be clinking champagne glasses over it, well that's quite the head-scratcher.

And you come up with "pre show avg ticket price" by simply taking a look at all the price tiers per section shortly after tix go on sale, assume the promoter will be successful in extracting every nickel out of those amounts, then do the math. At the end of the day, it's just like, well, counting dots. We both know it could be done, but only one of us have the time for it...