KISS World 2017 - May 1, Moscow, Russia

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Re: KISS World 2017 - May 1, Moscow, Russia

Post by Philly Cheese »

The shame of it is, this lineup is tight, the rest of the guys sound great, and the show and costumes look awesome. If Paul hadn't blown out, they'd be a force to be reckoned with for the foreseeable future.

Father time is a bastard.
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Re: KISS World 2017 - May 1, Moscow, Russia

Post by Planet Caravan »

It honestly sounds like the section of vocal chords that Paul relies on most simply isn't there anymore.

I think the time has come for Eric to subtly sing along with Paul, doubling his vocal lines. Paul needs help. Having Gene or Tommy do it is too obvious, but Eric is up the back.

They also need to reduce Paul's singing down to 5 or 6 songs MAXIMUM.
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Re: KISS World 2017 - May 1, Moscow, Russia

Post by Ratmir »

Ok, just got up, was too tired to post yesterday. Fun show, they played for almost 2 hours, a lot of songs, probably 19-20. Paul struggled, it wasn't a good night for him vocally though he was pretty energstic snd the most entertaining guu onstage. It was very odd to see War Machine after Gene's blood solo, snd PC as Psul' flying song. Definitely a benefit if the opening night, I won't be surprised if 2-3 shows in Love Gun will return as a flying song. Very odd song placement with Lick It Up and Love gun played so early. As for the attendance, it wasn't s sellout, quite a lot of empty seats. Compared to 2008 show the attendance was probably the same, that time there were less empty seats on the upper sections but less people on the floor. This time the floor seemed packed. The stsge was a refreshed version of Vegas stage, same concept but many new elements- the screens on the top now extend further above the audience, new entrance platform, brand new cherry platforms for Gene and Tommy. Overall a fun show, really enjoyed it, glad to have witnessed the opening night
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Re: KISS World 2017 - May 1, Moscow, Russia

Post by Ratmir »

Couple more observations- Paul more or less worked around his vocal issues during the songs but not during stage raps. He was csrraming more than he has recently. I think if people noticed his problems it was from those stage raps. Also there were much more young people in the audience than the last time, and they were really into it. It looked like in 2008 a lot of Soviet Union rock fans came to see the band that was banned and prohibited before, etc., while this time they had a completely new young audience, and they were really into Say Yeah, looked like they became fans during SB and Monster eras
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Re: KISS World 2017 - May 1, Moscow, Russia

Post by NightmareChild »

Smekare wrote:Did you expect anything else on opening night of a new tour? :lol:
Like a lead singer who can actually sing the songs?

It's the FIRST NIGHT and his voice has blown. How you apologists stand for this crap I can't fathom.

And the rare songs Gene promised in a recent interview don't exist (they're not even doing the three rare ones they worked into the last Kruise anymore, not even at the meet n greets) and the new show consists of Paul singing PC from his platform not Love Gun.

Paul and Gene are laughing at the fans at this point. Screw you all let's see how long we can milk the same old thing for!
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Re: KISS World 2017 - May 1, Moscow, Russia

Post by Mr Slow »

The band looked like they were having a great time up there. Tommy is very active and energetic. He and Eric are the 2 best performers now, if we are honest. 8/10

Paul's voice was rough. Rougher than it has been in a long time. He sounded better just last week but last night was pretty bad. Still, the crowd seemed really into the show. It's always better when you're there live. 5/10

The stage - I'm a bit underwhelmed to be honest. The Spider, the Vegas and the FTR set ups were all better than this one in my opinion. It's decent, but a step backwards I feel. 7/10

I like the setlist, although Hide Your Heart was a welcome addition and I'm bummed to see that one gone. 8/10

Overall, I think it was a pretty good tour opener. There's plenty I'd change, but I'm happy. And judging by the audience reaction, so were they! :thumright:
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Re: KISS World 2017 - May 1, Moscow, Russia

Post by Mr Slow »

NightmareChild wrote:How you apologists stand for this crap I can't fathom.
You honestly think it sounds that bad when you're at the show? Don't think I'm excusing Paul's voice. I've said plenty of times that it's not good. But with the volume of the music and the reverb you get at a live show, it's not nearly as noticeable as it is when you hear it through cell phone audio. Do you think the audience would be rocking out with fists in the air if it was as bad as it sounds in these clips? They'd all be running for the ticket booths to get their money back!

Remember, we are dealing with a largely casual audience these days. They wouldn't be nearly as apologetic as KISS fans would in regards to his voice. But they are having a great time. Since 2009 (ish) Paul has had troubles, nobody is denying that. But if it was truly as horrible as it sounds on these smart phone clips, they'd be playing clubs to 50 people by now. Not sure when you saw them last bit for me it was 18 months ago and that night I thought that Paul was really good. When I got home and watched YT clips it seemed like a completely different show. I think most here would agree with me. Friends that went to the same show never once mentioned anything about his vocal issues. It was not really an issue for any of them.

My new catchphrase: It's different live than it is on YouTube! :thumright:
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Re: KISS World 2017 - May 1, Moscow, Russia

Post by Red_Walrus »

The Man wrote:This Could Easily be fixed , I've said it a billion times

Have Paul Do

DRC
his Part of SOL
Hide your heart ( he handles well) or say yeah
Love Gun
Lick it up
and the Opening to black diamond Spread them out throughout the Set
Add more songs for Tommy and Eric and Add a Gene song or two
Paul Would Still have enough Time on the mic and it would be spread out enough to not have him get lost in the show .
They Could Easily have Eric Sing something Rare like Mainline or Strange ways if they wanted to shake things up as well .
or insert something like Let me know or Kissin Time where Paul SHARES vocals ....
This would work Wonders to mask Paul's Struggles and Probably help his voice out for the long run ...

Set List
Deuce
Shout It Out Loud
I Love It Loud {fire}
Shock Me
Let Me Go, Rock 'N' Roll
Lick It up
War Machine {gene Blood)
Outta this world
Dr Love
Say Yeah ( Paul Fly)
Cold Gin
Black Diamond

Detroit Rock City
Beth
Rock and Roll All Nite
Agreed..easily fixed. I wouldn't have two tommy songs tho....young and wasted for Eric would be cool. like to see a long shot of the new cherry pickers (if anyone has a link)...look huge like motley crues'.
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Re: KISS World 2017 - May 1, Moscow, Russia

Post by Ratmir »

Just saw this pic of yesterday's crowd and I have to say - there were more people yesterday than in 2008. Back then there were less empty seats but only half of that amount of people on the floor
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Re: KISS World 2017 - May 1, Moscow, Russia

Post by starchild007 »

People want to see KISS for the whole package. KISS concerts are great. Paul's voice, well at the show itself he sounds not as bad as on youtube.
Other artist playback the concerts is that what people want?? KISS did that in Japan......one song and people were all over it.
If you don't like it don't go or watch youtube. The "KISS World" European Tour sells great so people are not bothered that Paul can't sing like 25 years ago.
I am going to see KISS in Dortmund ( Germany)on may 12, Frankfurt may 23 (Germany) on may 23 and Rotterdam (The Netherlands) on may 24.
I am very excited to see KISS again. Nice setlist and stage show.
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Re: KISS World 2017 - May 1, Moscow, Russia

Post by cwr18 »

Ratmir wrote: It looked like in 2008 a lot of Soviet Union rock fans came to see the band that was banned and prohibited before, etc., while this time they had a completely new young audience, and they were really into Say Yeah, looked like they became fans during SB and Monster eras
:D
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Re: KISS World 2017 - May 1, Moscow, Russia

Post by NightmareChild »

Creatures of the night costumes, so let's drop COTN from the setlist. Makes sense ...
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Re: KISS World 2017 - May 1, Moscow, Russia

Post by NightmareChild »



Image
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Re: KISS World 2017 - May 1, Moscow, Russia

Post by kissjrj »

BlairC42 wrote:
Like it has always been with KISS, everyone in the venue had a great time and would do it again, while snobs sneer in their own urine. I'm giddy.
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Re: KISS World 2017 - May 1, Moscow, Russia

Post by NightmareChild »

If you think that sounds good and it brings you pleasure I'm happy for you bud. Honestly.

All I know is that when I was in a tribute band, if we'd delivered vocal performances like that, people would have called us amateurs.
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Re: KISS World 2017 - May 1, Moscow, Russia

Post by highvoltage1969 »

i. Gene sounds great.

ii. Band is tight.

iii. Good to see an enthusiastic, young crowd. I've noticed the audience in Europe seems to be younger than the US which is a good thing and adds some atmospheric energy.

iv. Stage show underwhelming.

v. Paul's voice wavers between bearable and sounding like a cat with it's knackers trapped in a vice.
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Re: KISS World 2017 - May 1, Moscow, Russia

Post by highvoltage1969 »

Full show

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Re: KISS World 2017 - May 1, Moscow, Russia

Post by Ikons »

Mr Slow wrote:
NightmareChild wrote:How you apologists stand for this crap I can't fathom.
You honestly think it sounds that bad when you're at the show?
Yup. I saw them two years ago and it was just as bad. Not as bad as THIS show, but I definitely cringed my way through Paul's songs.
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Re: KISS World 2017 - May 1, Moscow, Russia

Post by Tommyr »

highvoltage1969 wrote:Full show


Jesus Christ Listen to Lick it up. Paul can't even fucking TALK let alone SING. Wow......
And anyone that says it didn't sound that bad in person is full of shit.
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Re: KISS World 2017 - May 1, Moscow, Russia

Post by aceshigh »

Kiss does a show, the band is good, Paul sounds like shit...Really folks, it's old news. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result! Get over it. The Paul Stanley that did that amazing version of DRC in 1980 is long gone people, and nothing at this point will make him sound better. It amazes me that with the stale set list and no new music what it is exactly that keeps hard cores interested. I check in here to hopefully hear news of new music or Aces returning. KISS live is a non issue for me because the best ingredient Paul no longer sounds like a professional singer and no amount of complaining about it will change that. He is making mint and that's all Paul Stanley truly cares about. So if he doesn't care about the quality of his voice or if he loses it, why should any of us??
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Re: KISS World 2017 - May 1, Moscow, Russia

Post by BlairC42 »

nibbler1982 wrote:Definitely new cherry pickers too. I dig them. They appear massive.
Yes they are cool BUT there are from Motley Crue last Tour!

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Re: KISS World 2017 - May 1, Moscow, Russia

Post by gshaller »

Kickass!
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Re: KISS World 2017 - May 1, Moscow, Russia

Post by gshaller »

Paul's voice isn't what it once was, and water is wet. He and the band sound amazing overall, and that footage is pretty incredible!
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Re: KISS World 2017 - May 1, Moscow, Russia

Post by So Cruel »

gshaller wrote:Paul's voice isn't what it once was, and water is wet. He and the band sound amazing overall, and that footage is pretty incredible!
How does that version of Crazy Nights sound incredible? (Or Love Gun, Firehouse, etc...). They sound completely lifeless and dull. Paul is croaking through his songs.
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Re: KISS World 2017 - May 1, Moscow, Russia

Post by gshaller »

So Cruel wrote:
gshaller wrote:Paul's voice isn't what it once was, and water is wet. He and the band sound amazing overall, and that footage is pretty incredible!
How does that version of Crazy Nights sound incredible? (Or Love Gun, Firehouse, etc...). They sound completely lifeless and dull. Paul is croaking through his songs.

Let me revise my original statement:
I like it.
"Incredible" is subjective. I enjoy it, and you don't. 8)
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Re: KISS World 2017 - May 1, Moscow, Russia

Post by shupey »

I think the solo shows Gene is doing is helping his voice. He sounds great.
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Re: KISS World 2017 - May 1, Moscow, Russia

Post by KissAlive35_09 »

BlairC42 wrote:Now I'm no expert by any means but do you think Paul's vocals issues today has anything to do with Jet-leg or in a different time zone. cos a few weeks ago Paul sounded ok to decent?
I posted this in another thread...

I'm not defending the man, nor am I making excuses...everyone knows he has issues.

But...you also have to take into account that he never does well singing-wise after traveling.

He had an approximate 12-hour flight to Russia, acknowledged that he was jet-lagged, and looking at the past few days of temperatures, it has been in the low teens to twenties during the day and single digit to teens at night.
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Re: KISS World 2017 - May 1, Moscow, Russia

Post by sugardaddy »

How much were tickets in Moscow?
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Re: KISS World 2017 - May 1, Moscow, Russia

Post by jannep17 »

You can barely HEAR Paul already in the first song he sings. God, it's depressing. What are the chances that he only suffers from a cold?
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Re: KISS World 2017 - May 1, Moscow, Russia

Post by Smekaren »

Philly Cheese wrote:The shame of it is, this lineup is tight, the rest of the guys sound great, and the show and costumes look awesome. If Paul hadn't blown out, they'd be a force to be reckoned with for the foreseeable future.

Father time is a bastard.
Agreed. Well said.
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Re: KISS World 2017 - May 1, Moscow, Russia

Post by Smekaren »

NightmareChild wrote:
Smekare wrote:Did you expect anything else on opening night of a new tour? :lol:
Like a lead singer who can actually sing the songs?

It's the FIRST NIGHT and his voice has blown. How you apologists stand for this crap I can't fathom.

And the rare songs Gene promised in a recent interview don't exist (they're not even doing the three rare ones they worked into the last Kruise anymore, not even at the meet n greets) and the new show consists of Paul singing PC from his platform not Love Gun.

Paul and Gene are laughing at the fans at this point. Screw you all let's see how long we can milk the same old thing for!
If you're not paying for a ticket, you really have no reason to be whining at me or anyone else for that matter. Get over yourself.
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Re: KISS World 2017 - May 1, Moscow, Russia

Post by Ikons »

gshaller wrote:
So Cruel wrote:
gshaller wrote:Paul's voice isn't what it once was, and water is wet. He and the band sound amazing overall, and that footage is pretty incredible!
How does that version of Crazy Nights sound incredible? (Or Love Gun, Firehouse, etc...). They sound completely lifeless and dull. Paul is croaking through his songs.

Let me revise my original statement:
I like it.
"Incredible" is subjective. I enjoy it, and you don't. 8)
How would you rate this performance

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Re: KISS World 2017 - May 1, Moscow, Russia

Post by Smekaren »

Ikons wrote:
gshaller wrote:
So Cruel wrote:
gshaller wrote:Paul's voice isn't what it once was, and water is wet. He and the band sound amazing overall, and that footage is pretty incredible!
How does that version of Crazy Nights sound incredible? (Or Love Gun, Firehouse, etc...). They sound completely lifeless and dull. Paul is croaking through his songs.

Let me revise my original statement:
I like it.
"Incredible" is subjective. I enjoy it, and you don't. 8)
How would you rate this performance

How original of you.
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Re: KISS World 2017 - May 1, Moscow, Russia

Post by gshaller »

Ikons wrote:
gshaller wrote:
So Cruel wrote:
gshaller wrote:Paul's voice isn't what it once was, and water is wet. He and the band sound amazing overall, and that footage is pretty incredible!
How does that version of Crazy Nights sound incredible? (Or Love Gun, Firehouse, etc...). They sound completely lifeless and dull. Paul is croaking through his songs.

Let me revise my original statement:
I like it.
"Incredible" is subjective. I enjoy it, and you don't. 8)
How would you rate this performance

5/10
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KISS - Live @ Moscow 01.05.2017 - OH MY GOD!!!

Post by IggyMontpellier »



Paul's been singing badly (to say the least) for a while, but you know... as long as the crowd is there, the band will play.
And the next time they're in town, I'll be there for my aural masochism session, provided the tickets are cheap.

The band sounds really good. Gene looks better than in other shows, in good spirits.
Tommy looks great in that outfit.
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Re: KISS - Live @ Moscow 01.05.2017 - OH MY GOD!!!

Post by jannep17 »

On the plus side:

Musically, Kiss sounded tight, hungry and sharp. Better, I think, than I have heard them in years.
The set list is very well measured. We could go on about missing certain songs, but as a whole, it's really good.

On the minus side:

Well, Paul's voice is gone.
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Re: KISS - Live @ Moscow 01.05.2017 - OH MY GOD!!!

Post by IggyMontpellier »

jannep17 wrote:On the plus side:

Musically, Kiss sounded tight, hungry and sharp. Better, I think, than I have heard them in years.
The set list is very well measured. We could go on about missing certain songs, but as a whole, it's really good.

On the minus side:

Well, Paul's voice is gone.
Yes. KISS sounded really good in the few bits I watched.
I'll finish the whole thing later on.
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Re: KISS - Live @ Moscow 01.05.2017 - OH MY GOD!!!

Post by Supertrooper »

I'll admit I said I'd never attend a KISS concert again after the show in Oslo in 2012, but last week a few extra tickets got on sale, and I changed my mind and got a hold of two. So I'll go with a friend who is also an old fan. I doubt I would have gone alone, because I feel like it's more of a "tribal" thing/nostalgia, than the actual musical quality. I just wanna enjoy KISS as much as I can while I can. Hopefully I won't regret it. I was a bit concerned if checking out clips from moscow would make me regret it, so far it hasn't. I know what to expect from Paul, he is in no way a great nor a good singer anymore, actually pretty bad, BUT I think it's not so bad that I can't enjoy the show and even "his" songs. When we get to the choruses and he gets help from Gene, Eric and Tommy, all is forgiven...

Maybe I've learned to try to enjoy it for what it is....only Rock and roll.
Or maybe I have just by accident eaten something that makes me look at the light side of life for a while...
We'll see Sunday night.
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Re: KISS World 2017 - May 1, Moscow, Russia

Post by BlairC42 »

KissAlive35_09 wrote:
BlairC42 wrote:Now I'm no expert by any means but do you think Paul's vocals issues today has anything to do with Jet-leg or in a different time zone. cos a few weeks ago Paul sounded ok to decent?
I posted this in another thread...

I'm not defending the man, nor am I making excuses...everyone knows he has issues.

But...you also have to take into account that he never does well singing-wise after traveling.

He had an approximate 12-hour flight to Russia, acknowledged that he was jet-lagged, and looking at the past few days of temperatures, it has been in the low teens to twenties during the day and single digit to teens at night.
Thank -you! :thumleft:
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Re: KISS - Live @ Moscow 01.05.2017 - OH MY GOD!!!

Post by thunderwing »

IggyMontpellier wrote:
jannep17 wrote:On the plus side:

Musically, Kiss sounded tight, hungry and sharp. Better, I think, than I have heard them in years.
The set list is very well measured. We could go on about missing certain songs, but as a whole, it's really good.

On the minus side:

Well, Paul's voice is gone.
Yes. KISS sounded really good in the few bits I watched.
I'll finish the whole thing later on.
I couldnt get past start of lick it up
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Re: KISS - Live @ Moscow 01.05.2017 - OH MY GOD!!!

Post by IggyMontpellier »

thunderwing wrote:
IggyMontpellier wrote:
jannep17 wrote:On the plus side:

Musically, Kiss sounded tight, hungry and sharp. Better, I think, than I have heard them in years.
The set list is very well measured. We could go on about missing certain songs, but as a whole, it's really good.

On the minus side:

Well, Paul's voice is gone.
Yes. KISS sounded really good in the few bits I watched.
I'll finish the whole thing later on.
I couldnt get past start of lick it up
That was hard, yeah.
But the other three saved the day.
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Re: KISS World 2017 - May 1, Moscow, Russia

Post by gothunder »

gshaller wrote:
So Cruel wrote:
gshaller wrote:Paul's voice isn't what it once was, and water is wet. He and the band sound amazing overall, and that footage is pretty incredible!
How does that version of Crazy Nights sound incredible? (Or Love Gun, Firehouse, etc...). They sound completely lifeless and dull. Paul is croaking through his songs.

Let me revise my original statement:
I like it.
"Incredible" is subjective. I enjoy it, and you don't. 8)
Much better.
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Re: KISS World 2017 - May 1, Moscow, Russia

Post by nickgr74 »

I was almost ready to book a flight for stuttgart concert venue, but.. I had doubts and wanted something to get motivated
Despite my thoughts and hopes for new stage(bring back the TANK!!!),EVERYTHING is the same(set list-stage)they just add some new elements and they call it new stage.
This time I found out that spending money for air tickets+any travel costs not justify the cause.
IF the concert venue was in my city I would attend without giving second thoughts.
As far as I REMEMBER from 2008 some "line" hit me over and over again "lets go!! ITS their last run, last change to see the band live"
THIS not working anymore, if ACE was back for me personally is another story.
Like in 2015 the ace 2 concerts where superb and worth every money and time spent, kiss gig in prague was kinda boring, the right word the band was on AUTO-PILOT MODE.
I wish all the best to all the fans who decided to go and see the band one more time, the debate if worth the price ticket,paul vocal issues etc etc...I think is pointless,
everyone can spent the money as they wish....burn,giveaway,no matter what.
I just wish that the band could end their long career in much better way no matter paul vocal issues, KISS ALWAYS HAD THE ADVANTAGE FOR SURPRISING THE FANS...
that element is gone maybe a decade ago.
JohnBergless
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Re: KISS - Live @ Moscow 01.05.2017 - OH MY GOD!!!

Post by JohnBergless »

There's still some tricks they could use to help with the lead vocal situation:
1) Let the guitar player or drummer do a Paul song or 2; in some fashion. Hey - Eric Carr did it with Young and Wasted....

2) Try a Hybrid song or 2. Do 1/2 a Paul song, then musically transition right into another song sung by another member and do half of that 2nd song. Reference the popular "KISS Medley Jam" that happened on the Farewell Tour (I think).

3) Let the drummer and guitar player each do their own extended solos during the show - circa Alive I and II. Great way to eat up time.

4) Stop the between-song banter; or let another guy do it.

5) Sell a VIP top tier upgrade option for the M&G fanbase to allow a fan to come up and sing with KISS onstage during the show. And just by chance, it's a Paul song.....

6) For a song or two, rather than have Paul sing - have all 4 jam along to a video of old concert footage; i.e. Lick It Up from the Animalize Live Uncensored show. Crystal clear HD video on that giant screen, with the original concert soundtrack, only have them on stage playing along to it; or a show with Vinnie in it; or Peter from Largo '77. This might be a nice way to pay homage to former members as well, and the fans would dig it. Maybe.

7) Just give in and join the lip sync revolution
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Mr Slow
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Re: KISS - Live @ Moscow 01.05.2017 - OH MY GOD!!!

Post by Mr Slow »

It is a real shame Paul's voice has diminished because everything else is really solid right now. They are tight, enthusiastic and having a great time, which has not always been the case in past incarnations of the band. Like I say though, when you are there his vocal issues aren't nearly as obvious as they are on YouTube clips.
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Re: KISS - Live @ Moscow 01.05.2017 - OH MY GOD!!!

Post by NightmareChild »

Is Gene just standing rooted to the same spot nodding occasionally less noticeable in person?
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Tommyr
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Re: KISS - Live @ Moscow 01.05.2017 - OH MY GOD!!!

Post by Tommyr »

NightmareChild wrote:Is Gene just standing rooted to the same spot nodding occasionally less noticeable in person?
ROTFLMFAO! Nice!
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slipkid69
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Re: KISS World 2017 - May 1, Moscow, Russia

Post by slipkid69 »

Not sure what's a bigger head scratcher. That G & P have the balls to start out every show saying "you wanted the best and you got the best", and then have Stan go out there and croak for two hours. Or the fans who spend their hard earned money on tickets, meet & greets and smashed guitars and continue to throw this band shade.
They are a fucking embarrassment at this point. Anyone who says otherwise is living in denial.
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Re: KISS World 2017 - May 1, Moscow, Russia

Post by gshaller »

slipkid69 wrote:Not sure what's a bigger head scratcher. That G & P have the balls to start out every show saying "you wanted the best and you got the best", and then have Stan go out there and croak for two hours. Or the fans who spend their hard earned money on tickets, meet & greets and smashed guitars and continue to throw this band shade.
They are a fucking embarrassment at this point. Anyone who says otherwise is living in denial.

Or maybe they just disagree with you.
That seems more likely.
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slipkid69
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Re: KISS World 2017 - May 1, Moscow, Russia

Post by slipkid69 »

gshaller wrote:
slipkid69 wrote:Not sure what's a bigger head scratcher. That G & P have the balls to start out every show saying "you wanted the best and you got the best", and then have Stan go out there and croak for two hours. Or the fans who spend their hard earned money on tickets, meet & greets and smashed guitars and continue to throw this band shade.
They are a fucking embarrassment at this point. Anyone who says otherwise is living in denial.

Or maybe they just disagree with you.
That seems more likely.
It's really ok to say your favorite band can't cut it anymore. Gene and Paul won't show up at your door and take away your Kiss Army membership card :roll: