2017 Show #1 - Catoosa, OK

User avatar
iceman500
Welcome To The Show!
Welcome To The Show!
Posts: 98
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 8:40 am
Location: oklahoma city

Re: 2017 Show #1 - Catoosa, OK

Post by iceman500 »

It was a good show. Paul sounded fine singing low. Tommy is definitely alot more interactive with the crowd then usual. Set list sucked ass. My wife took alot of video and has been putting it on YouTube. I'm going to see them again Friday. Hopefully not same set list. For those of u who live near okc my wife talked to doc last night and he said they might pop into rock and brews this afternoon.
User avatar
shupey
Qualified to wear Ace's makeup!
Qualified to wear Ace's makeup!
Posts: 5444
Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2006 7:25 am
Location: Outside Jennifer Love Hewitt's house

Re: 2017 Show #1 - Catoosa, OK

Post by shupey »

LMGRAR is welcomed back for sure. IWMFLY should take a permanent vacation though. Would still love to see them add one or both of Tommy & Eric's SB/Monster songs to give Paul more of a break and extend the set list. Glad they are still out there though.
User avatar
Evo999
Qualified to wear Ace's makeup!
Qualified to wear Ace's makeup!
Posts: 6417
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2007 6:26 pm

Re: 2017 Show #1 - Catoosa, OK

Post by Evo999 »

Admin wrote:There is nothing wrong with that set list. Does it excite folk who follow every.single.show.update.year.after.year? No. They/We're not there. And anyway, it's not 2004, 1996, 1990, or 1977 anymore.

What if one of our stalwart two were sick, and wanted to rock to the end like Lemmy (I'm not suggesting that is the case by any means)? Would that change some people's opinions? What if they just didn't want to stop? Would that change some people's opinions? What if they look out from the stage and see the smiles (behind the phones held aloft) and fists pumped, or people singing along, or children in awe? Would that change some people's opinions? Probably not for certain miserable keyboard warriors who seem to have nothing better to do and denigrate what they once purportedly loved. However, some of us will savor every moment to the final curtain call, though not without constructive feedback and (hopefully) intelligent non-angry discussion.
Well said. Why I read here but rarely post. Same old complainers, day after day.
User avatar
metaldad
Nearly as many posts as KISS compilations!
Nearly as many posts as KISS compilations!
Posts: 15690
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 12:41 pm
Location: Rockin in the USA

Re: 2017 Show #1 - Catoosa, OK

Post by metaldad »

pepperkitty wrote:
metaldad wrote:
pepperkitty wrote:This is precisely where we, as long time fans, have got it all wrong.
That setlist features some of the most well known and loved KISS songs. Read through the Facebook comments and people that went to the show are all saying how great it was. Our mistake is thinking that KISS should be catering to us, the fans that sit at home complaining that Ace isn't in the band or how they stick 2 "imposters" onstage. The band long since cared what we think. They want to appeal to the people that are going to pay up to see them. It should go without saying, but it's a business. And it has been that way for decades now.

Those that see KISS in 2017 are either knowing it's a nostalgic based greatest hits type show (like us folks here) or they are oblivious to what will be played and just happy that they know 4 or 5 of the songs. :thumright:

I have been a fan since 1976
I don't sit at home a bitch about Tommy and Eric
I spent a fortune on the last Kruise
I have seen them over 50 times in my life
They have been spewing for years We are the Boss
They are full of shit
How many songs do they have ?
Yet no thought goes into their setlist whatsoever
Great , they gave us F Y last year, now it won't leave the set for something else
We do have a right to bitch , everyone of us that has supported them for Decades
Everyone the forked over money time and time agian only to walk away with a bunch of lies and a stale setlist
Because they won't put in the time to change it

i have been a fan as well since 1975
i bitch no more about Tommy and Eric as i did with Bruce or Vinnie or Mark or with Eric Carr on the drums.
i'm in the 30+ gig seen area. from the 70's - 2016
i personally cant stand the non-make up area years of Animalize through Revenge - (lps or tours) revenge tour was awesome not a fan of the lp
You and I really are the Boss. - we control the decisions to follow the band or not.
Yes, you and i again have the right to bitch but they also have the right to present their "product" how they seem fit.
As for the $$$ spent over the years and EVEN this morning on tickets , records , merch and YES i will buy that damn Waffle Maker , i know what i'm getting and will be happy to annoy my wife with it!
be happy my friend , time is to short to let a lazy set list interfere with the good time.
You made me laugh with the waffle maker
Please know my post was not an attack on you just speaking in general
I still go to shows and now bring the family
If they really cared about what the Boss thinks, take a vote
Many bands do it, but they will never do that
Paul prob can't sing 70% of the catalogue
And Gene and Paul are Lazy to relearn things
It's a shame that if we want to hear deep cuts we have to fork out Thousands for a cruise
I went last year and it was fantastic, I heard songs I never heard before but that ain't happening any time soon again
It's almost over this we all know
Go out with a bang and surprise the shit out of us
User avatar
pete1699
Super Elite KISS Fan
Super Elite KISS Fan
Posts: 1186
Joined: Wed Nov 19, 2008 10:00 am

Re: 2017 Show #1 - Catoosa, OK

Post by pete1699 »

Believe me, I will still go to the shows, have a blast, take my kids and have a great time appreciating them for still being here, absolutely.
And I love Thayer and Singer and think they do a great job.

But I will always also contend that they could shake things up just a bit - and Flaming Youth was a great step forward for us, but I got so excited when they continued the Kruise songs for the Mexico show - and it sounds like they went over very well there - that I'll always keep hoping for more of that.

But I definitely appreciate them for what they are - 43 years on.

And I will keep hoping for "Sweet Pain" or "Mr. Speed"!
User avatar
kissjrj
Nearly as many posts as KISS compilations!
Nearly as many posts as KISS compilations!
Posts: 10355
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2009 10:35 am
Location: Shout Mercy!!!

Re: 2017 Show #1 - Catoosa, OK

Post by kissjrj »

Image
User avatar
metaldad
Nearly as many posts as KISS compilations!
Nearly as many posts as KISS compilations!
Posts: 15690
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 12:41 pm
Location: Rockin in the USA

Re: 2017 Show #1 - Catoosa, OK

Post by metaldad »

kissjrj wrote:Image
He has a perfectly good head of hair
Let him use it
Worst wig out of any of them
User avatar
SureKnowSomething
Spends too much time FAQ'ing off!
Spends too much time FAQ'ing off!
Posts: 4413
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2010 4:10 pm

Re: 2017 Show #1 - Catoosa, OK

Post by SureKnowSomething »

I think the issue with diehards who've been around when the band still regularly put out new music is - We've seen them when their creative juices were still flowing and they were actually attempting to give us something different every tour. Now, the only thing flowing is Ensure, Geritol and the closest thing they have to a greatest hits set. The stage seems to be altogether overlooked. Hopefully things will become better dialed in as the shows continue and by the time they get to Europe they've assembled the closest thing they have to an "A" game these days.
User avatar
metaldad
Nearly as many posts as KISS compilations!
Nearly as many posts as KISS compilations!
Posts: 15690
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 12:41 pm
Location: Rockin in the USA

Re: 2017 Show #1 - Catoosa, OK

Post by metaldad »

We all know Paul calls the shots including the setlist
He should give Eric more songs, Baby Driver, Strange Way etc
Let tommy sing more only not Shock Me, like Hard Times etc
Give Gene 1 or 2 more songs
Then it would not be such a strain on his voice and the fans get different songs
Won't happen but it would be nice
scottbassist
Super Elite KISS Fan
Super Elite KISS Fan
Posts: 1166
Joined: Thu May 15, 2014 2:19 pm

Re: 2017 Show #1 - Catoosa, OK

Post by scottbassist »

KingOfHearts89 wrote:Paul's wearing his tail!
Setlist is okay, Firehouse, Let Me Go and Flaming Youth are probs the 'deeper' cuts. Kinda wish the setlist was longer though.
Psycho Circus 12th song in? 'And I say welcome to the show' 12 songs in? Logic? Nope. I'd much rather here ANYTHING else than Psycho Circus 12 songs in.
Was expecting the tank stage tbh, the stage is pretty dull looking.

Overall, I hope this is just a 'warm up', trying out some songs getting the feel for the songs for bigger shows in Europe. The setlist is better than last year in my opinion (okay not much change but not having God Of Thunder & Do You Love Me is refreshing) and I do hope they add one or two more songs to the set before Europe (hoping for Crazy Nights for UK shows at least, since you know its probably the big song people know).
I only missed the tank on the first two or three songs. The lighting was spectacular, the sound amazing and the pyros seemed a little different than the pyros they used on the 2012 and 2009 tours. I enjoyed it. I would have loved a couple more deep cuts, but the performances were good. A few shaky vocal moments from Paul here and there, but the other three's voices were near-perfect. It was nice seeing Kiss in a smaller room, where Eric's drums sounded more like real, acoustic drums (they are), instead of the almost artificial-sounding, digital-sounding thuds we hear on his drums in the arena shows. Eric's drums had nice, warm tones and sounded almost like an un-mic'd kit last night. It was fun. :D
User avatar
Mr Slow
Nearly as many posts as KISS compilations!
Nearly as many posts as KISS compilations!
Posts: 11094
Joined: Thu May 05, 2016 3:48 pm

Re: 2017 Show #1 - Catoosa, OK

Post by Mr Slow »

Crimson Harpoon wrote:KISS would be so much better playing to their hardcore base rather than trying to please a general audience of concert goers who couldn't give a fuck about who and what they are seeing and hearing. KISS is what it is because money is their number one reason for doing anything. Now is the time they should be cementing their legacy as a band and with the people who have stood by them when the general public wouldn't have pissed on the band to put it out. Gene has said many times "Fuck integrity", and to a point, he's correct. But that point has been so far passed, the band has become the joke the people it now plays to have always said it is. If playing to 35 people in an elementary school cafeteria earned them a decent profit margin, they'd do it. If anyone had said KISS would be playing the venues it now plays, KISS fans would have said that person was crazy or just being a hater. Now it's reality and some have to justify it in their own minds by saying they're making money rather than accepting the mess KISS has become.
You mean the hardcore base that piss and moan all over social media about the makeup, the setlist, the costumes, the band members and everything else related to this band? Why on earth would they try to cater for them?!?! Look where keeping the diehards happy got them back in the 90's. Prior to the reunion they were all but dead. But give the masses what they wanted (ie; return to the original gimmick) and audiences swelled tenfold.

So why would they strive to keep a very small (and dwindling) diehard fanbase happy when they can appease the masses by providing a "Best Of KISS" style concert - the songs, the image, the performance, the visuals, it's all designed to deliver the most bombastic and entertaining show imaginable. Keeping the hardcore fans happy almost ended them. Appealing to the masses has kept them afloat all these years.

And your point about them playing smaller venues isn't really accurate either. This isn't normal for KISS. Our FAQ friend Nibbler is a stickler for audience numbers and his stats tell us that overall in the past decade they are probably averaging 10,000. There will be a few lower numbers here and there when they play one off Casino's and the odd multi-band Festival will increase the average, but in general less than 3,000 is not normal. Fast forward to Europe in a couple months and you'll see it for yourself.
User avatar
Kissologist
Nearly as many posts as KISS compilations!
Nearly as many posts as KISS compilations!
Posts: 13284
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2007 10:35 am

Re: 2017 Show #1 - Catoosa, OK

Post by Kissologist »

Pretty cool what I've seen so far 8)
User avatar
Red_Walrus
Super Elite KISS Fan
Super Elite KISS Fan
Posts: 1774
Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2016 9:50 am
Location: "I live five days to your one"

Re: 2017 Show #1 - Catoosa, OK

Post by Red_Walrus »

Still no tourbook?
har9020
Newbie... Be nice to me!
Newbie... Be nice to me!
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2017 3:02 am

Re: 2017 Show #1 - Catoosa, OK

Post by har9020 »

My understanding is that Paul's rationale for keeping the set list virtually the same tour after tour is that "We're not choosing songs for the fans who've seen us a hundred times. We're choosing songs for the fans seeing us for the FIRST time." Okay, Paul. Whatever. But given the public's fickle and fractured taste in music nowadays, I don't know how many first-time fans there are who are there on their own and not children or grandchildren of existing fans. Hard to believe a generation of concert-goers brought up on Hip-Hop, Rap, Boy Bands, and Kings of Leon would gravitate towards a KISS show. I guess that's why we see KISS on "American Idol" and "The Voice" -- that kind of market penetration can do in 5 minutes what used to take the band 5 years of touring in clubs.

Here's my take on it: the "veteran" fans are the ones making up the lion's share of your concert audience. If not for your repeat fan base you wouldn't have any reason to tour at all. And if you play the same set lists over and over again enough times eventually you will bore us/them to death.

As for the first-timers, OF COURSE we expect you to play certain hits for them. That's a given. But those are songs that can be accessed a million ways from Sunday every day of the week, either on CD, album, or live versions on YouTube, etc. If you want to get your new fans to develop an interest in your entire catalog of records, draw from those records a bit more in concert. Otherwise the new fan will only need to download one of your "Best Of" albums and that will be the end of it.

There's a lot of interesting musical history to the band, but it's getting harder to believe the band is proud of it. KISS built their reputation on their LIVE SHOWS. If the show is great and packs a powerful punch, then it will do so even if they dig a little deeper into their back catalogue. A new fan interested enough to buy a concert ticket is going to see the show regardless of the set list. Either they will enjoy the show or they won't. If KISS does a powerhouse show, THAT is what the fans will remember. The set list should be almost secondary. If the band feels the only way to guarantee the new fans will enjoy the show is to patronize them by playing just the greatest hits, then the band might as well regard themselves as a nostalgia act and nothing else.

KISS is playing it safe, which is sad coming from a band that built its reputation on doing exactly the opposite.

But I also acknowledge that times have changed and concert technology has an impact: these aren't club gigs where the band can play whatever they want at the drop of a hat. Nowadays the light shows, pyro effects, etc are carefully timed and planned out well in advance. A concert has become more of a scripted affair than a musical exploration. Plus, the band isn't getting any younger. They can't put in 2 hours on stage like they used to. They have to cram everything into a 75-90 minute set, and that usually means hitting the familiar oldies and getting the hell out of there afterwards before their bones start creaking louder than the guitars. It's just not the same business it was when they were young.

Am I tired of the stale set lists? Abso-damn-lutey. But the band probably figures their older fans will still come to the shows even if they gripe about the song lists. That's money in the bank. Once we start staying away they'll get the message, though I still don't think it would cause them to re-think the set list.

Playing the same old tired set list night after night, tour after tour is a terrible artistic choice but a sound business choice. That's the reality now.
har9020
Newbie... Be nice to me!
Newbie... Be nice to me!
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2017 3:02 am

Re: 2017 Show #1 - Catoosa, OK

Post by har9020 »

Funny how now that KISS uses giant video screens we can see them close up at their most physically unappealing. Age is a bitch. I would love to have seen those large video screens in use at a KISS concert when they were in their twenties. They were fit, slender, and the makeup looked so damn cool. Now it's just old guys sweating. Nice close-up, Gene!