"Odyssey": Definitive Book On The Elder Coming Fall 2016

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Re: "Odyssey": Definitive Book On The Elder Coming Fall 2016

Post by Rhiannon » Sun Jan 10, 2016 7:34 am

For me, i have always loved the album, and it has stood the test of time.As i have written on here before,its criminal the way Gene and in particular Paul have trashed the album over the years.They had a massive opportunity on the Symphony night to satisfy most of the KISS fans wants. and play 4-5 tracks from the album with the orchestra.

Paul and Gene/KISS career is littered with dumb musical decisions, this was one of them by not playing ELDER tracks that night..SYMPHONY was something different they tried, but could have been a whole lot more.

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Re: "Odyssey": Definitive Book On The Elder Coming Fall 2016

Post by isf_1967 » Sun Jan 10, 2016 1:57 pm

Australia wrote:...it was a blatant attempt at pop and commercialism that turned away almost every solid Kiss fan. Kiss had become very UNCOOL!
So they tried to do something Musically accepted, and if you listen , you can here a Hard Rock album within THE ELDER...
It's funny, really - I was a solid Kiss fan, from 1975 (at the ripe old age of eight) until they took the makeup off. I truly like 98% of the LP's until LIU.

Everything after that, to me, was a "blatant attempt at pop and commercialism"... and they didn't really take the makeup off, anyways, did they? They just went from superhero fantasy style makeup to to fugly transsexual style makeup. INCREDIBLE.

I wasn't a big fan of 80's & 90's hair metal in the first place, but seeing Kiss jump on that bandwagon and the results - image and music wise - still make me cringe.
Last edited by isf_1967 on Sun Jan 10, 2016 7:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: "Odyssey": Definitive Book On The Elder Coming Fall 2016

Post by bandit79jun » Sun Jan 10, 2016 2:02 pm

FlamingRuth wrote:
Ironfist76 wrote: But thank God it was made. It is one of those beautiful/ugly creatures that you find in nature or music that can only be appreciated by a minority of like-minded people that heard the album at just the right time in their lives. Thank you Elder nymphs for inspiring its creation. What a beautiful disaster! :eric:
:cheers:
And that's what I call a great post. 8)

I, too, can understand how/why The Elder doesn't appeal to a lot of Kiss fans, but I'm one of the weird ones who embraced it.
HIt single, heavier production,better concept: none of these would have made any difference to me.
I love this beautiful/ugly freak of Kiss nature just the way it is.

Can't wait for the book.
100% agree with both of you.

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Re: "Odyssey": Definitive Book On The Elder Coming Fall 2016

Post by The Demon » Sun Jan 10, 2016 2:51 pm

Planet Caravan wrote:The label initially pushed The Elder hard. They shot 2 videos and the band appeared live on Fridays and Solid Gold. That's actually MORE promotion in the US than Unmasked received.
And that's hardly enough to cut it. Two videos, only one of which was ever released (on Solid Gold...), and a Friday's performance... that's it? That was their plans in helping this thing sell a million copies?

The other BIG part of this.... no tour. Nothing. A couple TV appearances... if there had been a tour it probably would have been a different story.

The lack of a U.S. tour for Unmasked could also explain why the album only reached Gold status.
Your Metallica comparisons are WAY off the mark.
No they aren't.
Metallica went from metal to heavy alternative, and then back to metal.
Metallica went from being a pioneering thrash metal band, to an alt rock group, and only twenty years later[/quote] did they ever put out an album that sounded remotely like their former selves. You seriously don't think a huge part of Metallica's fanbase was alienated? Seriously, dude? I'd venture to guess that the amount of Metallica fans that turned their backs on them long ago is equal or greater than the number of KISS fans pitching a hissy fit. And yet Metallica continues to sell Platinum albums (or they probably would if they'd make a new album, already...)
That is nowhere near as bad as Kiss going from hard rock to kiddie disco/pop then to medieval concept album. NOWHERE near as bad.


Uh.... well first of all, this "kiddy disco pop" era is grossly exaggerated by people who may or may not have even listened to the album, and the "Medieval concept album" thing is probably something nobody gave a shit about. And Metallica going from thrash to what they became is like a million times worse.

Also - one thing you leave out - KISS' "departure" lasted only a couple years - Metallica had been pulling this shit for decades.

St. Anger was universally reviled. It continues to be hated like few other albums. Yet it went #1, went Platinum, and Metallica seemingly never lost an album sale or concert attendance for it.

And Metallica never abandoned their fans the way Kiss did.


Bullllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllshit! :lol:

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Re: "Odyssey": Definitive Book On The Elder Coming Fall 2016

Post by BullSid » Sun Jan 10, 2016 9:39 pm

kiss76 wrote:
BullSid wrote:If they had a hitsingle on The Elder things would be much more different.

They had every chance of a hit single. "I" was released & promoted in Australia & the USA.
Not good enough...

KISS fans at the time thought that album was shit.
No revisionist thoughts & opinions can change that fact to the majority of fans who lived through that period of the bands history.
If the album was any good then KISS fans throughout Australia wouldn't have deserted the band like they did in 1981-82.
Had they released a great album after Unmasked then the fall may not have happened or at least the success of the Australian tour & fan base would have contributed to KISS continuing at a reasonable level.
"I" never had potention to be a hitsingle. It's not a hitparade track.

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Re: "Odyssey": Definitive Book On The Elder Coming Fall 2016

Post by Starduzt » Mon Jan 11, 2016 10:18 am

Rhiannon wrote:For me, i have always loved the album, and it has stood the test of time.As i have written on here before,its criminal the way Gene and in particular Paul have trashed the album over the years.They had a massive opportunity on the Symphony night to satisfy most of the KISS fans wants. and play 4-5 tracks from the album with the orchestra.

Paul and Gene/KISS career is littered with dumb musical decisions, this was one of them by not playing ELDER tracks that night..SYMPHONY was something different they tried, but could have been a whole lot more.
This could have been written by myself.

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Re: "Odyssey": Definitive Book On The Elder Coming Fall 2016

Post by wezze » Mon Jan 11, 2016 10:24 am

Cold-Gin wrote:
I purchased the Elder on release day. Crap then, crap now. :lol: :wink:

I am however interested in learning the reason for all this crap, so a book might help explain :)
Right on :D

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Re: "Odyssey": Definitive Book On The Elder Coming Fall 2016

Post by timstar78 » Mon Jan 11, 2016 11:01 am

We appreciate all of the initial support and feedback.

To answer one of the questions put forth in this thread, this book will "offer" a comprehensive snapshot of "The Elder" and this period in the band's history. NovElder was essentially the springboard for this effort, and we've connected many dots and tied many loose ends since.

And yes, Bob Ezrin has given us what we feel is the "definitive Elder" interview. We had an entire afternoon with Bob in Nashville and no questions were off-limits. I believe it to be the first time (including the album's promo campaign in 1981) Bob has discussed this particular album/period in such extensive detail -- in recent years, it's always been a question here, a question there. For that, we are extremely grateful to Bob.

We won't be spamming the board with constant news and updates. But if you are so inclined, our Facebook and Twitter accounts are very active in terms of promoting what is going on with the book and providing a reservoir of "Elder"/1981-related content. Lots more coming down the pike...

https://www.facebook.com/odysseyelderbook/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://twitter.com/odysseyelder" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: "Odyssey": Definitive Book On The Elder Coming Fall 2016

Post by sugardaddy » Mon Jan 11, 2016 2:55 pm

Super Stoked about this. I probably haven't been this excited about a book since I heard "Out on the Streets" was finally coming out.

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Re: "Odyssey": Definitive Book On The Elder Coming Fall 2016

Post by stutterer » Mon Jan 11, 2016 4:17 pm

timstar78 wrote:To answer one of the questions put forth in this thread, this book will "offer" a comprehensive snapshot of "The Elder" and this period in the band's history. NovElder was essentially the springboard for this effort, and we've connected many dots and tied many loose ends since.

And yes, Bob Ezrin has given us what we feel is the "definitive Elder" interview. We had an entire afternoon with Bob in Nashville and no questions were off-limits. I believe it to be the first time (including the album's promo campaign in 1981) Bob has discussed this particular album/period in such extensive detail -- in recent years, it's always been a question here, a question there. For that, we are extremely grateful to Bob.
Thank you for answering.

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Re: "Odyssey": Definitive Book On The Elder Coming Fall 2016

Post by Easy Catman » Tue Jan 12, 2016 6:42 pm

I suppose an important question is was a concept album, any concept album used just to interest Bob into getting involved with Kiss again following his Pink Floyd Wall triumph, or was the so called Rockin' with the Boys album truly a non starter? A few months after the Elder release the record company was demanding and specifying they release new hard rock songs on the Killers compilation which they duly did. So was the Elder just how do we get Bob to work with us again as he made Destroyer our best selling studio album ever and the wall which sold multi millions worldwide?

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Re: "Odyssey": Definitive Book On The Elder Coming Fall 2016

Post by Australia » Wed Jan 13, 2016 12:24 am

Easy Catman wrote:I suppose an important question is was a concept album, any concept album used just to interest Bob into getting involved with Kiss again following his Pink Floyd Wall triumph, or was the so called Rockin' with the Boys album truly a non starter? A few months after the Elder release the record company was demanding and specifying they release new hard rock songs on the Killers compilation which they duly did. So was the Elder just how do we get Bob to work with us again as he made Destroyer our best selling studio album ever and the wall which sold multi millions worldwide?
Hard Rock songs on Killers, Sure about that?


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Re: "Odyssey": Definitive Book On The Elder Coming Fall 2016

Post by Kissologist » Wed Jan 13, 2016 4:29 pm

Admin wrote:
SnapShot(11).jpg
https://www.facebook.com/odysseyelderbook/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://twitter.com/odysseyelder" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Cool! 8)
Looking at the pictures posted in Facebook, will the book have them? :?:

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Re: "Odyssey": Definitive Book On The Elder Coming Fall 2016

Post by cart25 » Wed Jan 13, 2016 4:53 pm

I am unreasonably excited about this book. I am actually feeling stressed out that I have to wait. Fall can't come soon enough.

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Re: "Odyssey": Definitive Book On The Elder Coming Fall 2016

Post by Reverend Colonel » Thu Jan 14, 2016 2:56 pm

Worst KISS album by a long shot. A terrible decision in every way. I can't WAIT to read about it.

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Re: "Odyssey": Definitive Book On The Elder Coming Fall 2016

Post by Easy Catman » Thu Jan 14, 2016 3:27 pm

Australia wrote:
Easy Catman wrote:I suppose an important question is was a concept album, any concept album used just to interest Bob into getting involved with Kiss again following his Pink Floyd Wall triumph, or was the so called Rockin' with the Boys album truly a non starter? A few months after the Elder release the record company was demanding and specifying they release new hard rock songs on the Killers compilation which they duly did. So was the Elder just how do we get Bob to work with us again as he made Destroyer our best selling studio album ever and the wall which sold multi millions worldwide?
Hard Rock songs on Killers, Sure about that?
Absolutely!

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Re: "Odyssey": Definitive Book On The Elder Coming Fall 2016

Post by Ace Fury » Fri Jan 15, 2016 10:13 am

I am in and really looking forward to this.

good times being a KISS fan!

:)

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Re: "Odyssey": Definitive Book On The Elder Coming Fall 2016

Post by shandi777 » Fri Jan 15, 2016 8:44 pm


Nice.............thanks.

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Re: "Odyssey": Definitive Book On The Elder Coming Fall 2016

Post by markdeath77 » Sat Jan 16, 2016 9:13 pm

Here is another Lou Reed and Bob Ezrin Elder tie in.. If you needed one more reason to hate him. http://blog.wfmu.org/freeform/2006/09/u ... cordi.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: "Odyssey": Definitive Book On The Elder Coming Fall 2016

Post by greg2112 » Sun Jan 17, 2016 8:26 am

CAN. NOT. WAIT. for this.

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Re: "Odyssey": Definitive Book On The Elder Coming Fall 2016

Post by Admin » Wed May 25, 2016 12:01 pm

Image

Looking for a physical copy of the Italian magazine with this ad included...

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Re: "Odyssey": Definitive Book On The Elder Coming Fall 2016

Post by Admin » Wed May 25, 2016 12:02 pm

Image

Known to many as arch-villain "The Penguin" on 1960's "Batman" TV show, or Rocky Balboa's trainer, Mickey Goldmill, in the first three Rocky films, Burgess Meredith was one actor strongly considered for the roll as "narrator" for "The Elder." He had portrayed the poet Ammon in the 1981 movie, "Clash of the Titans."

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Re: "Odyssey": Definitive Book On The Elder Coming Fall 2016

Post by 69th_B1izard » Wed May 25, 2016 12:17 pm

Admin wrote:Image

Known to many as arch-villain "The Penguin" on 1960's "Batman" TV show, or Rocky Balboa's trainer, Mickey Goldmill, in the first three Rocky films, Burgess Meredith was one actor strongly considered for the roll as "narrator" for "The Elder." He had portrayed the poet Ammon in the 1981 movie, "Clash of the Titans."
He would have been perfect! As for the magazine you are looking for, I still say that looks like Grizzly Adams.

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Re: "Odyssey": Definitive Book On The Elder Coming Fall 2016

Post by destroyerrnro » Wed May 25, 2016 12:21 pm

redinthesky wrote:
Australia wrote:I believe those pre Elder sessions at ACEINTHEHOLE show Kiss had very little to work with, a new rock album would have been mediocre at best, and would have done nothing to lift Kiss fan base in the states.
The only solution was to get Bob Ezrin back to help with the songs, but unfortunatly the record company then stepped in and fucked the whole concept up, by removing important dialogue and song running order.
Nothing would have worked for Kiss in 1981, if it was released in 1978 (and they had beaten Pink Floyd to the Table) we would by now be watching THE ELDER MOVIE on blu ray.
The concept is fine, and has worked for 1000s of years dating back to JESUS CHRIST, and then more recently SUPERMAN and STAR WARS!
Music From THE ELDER returned Kiss to some of it's Heaviest Music since Hotter Than Hell, eg, The Oath, Only You/Under The Rose and Mr Blackwell, and then i will add Escape From and Dark Light as alternatives.
I guess if you did not live through Dynasty (perticularly IWMFLU) or Unmasked you can not understand the timming nor nature of this album, so maybe you will never get it, so stop trying, OR maybe listen to The Elder in context and play thru Dynasty, then Unmasked , AND THEN THE ELDER, you may see it differently.
If "The Elder" was released in 1978, when Kiss had a very definitive model of success, Kiss would have been laughed off the music scene with a worldwide cry of "what the fuck is this shit?"

The Elder was actually released at the best possible time, because in '81 Kiss was so lost and so clueless as a band, The Elder really didn't "disrupt" the Kiss formula because by then, Kiss was virtually dead anyway. So even with that advantage, The Elder was rightfully a bomb, because despite a song or two and some melodies it's an empty, overblown disaster that sounds like it's underwater even, and rightfully still the only studio album (not counting the past two with the current lineup) not to go gold, even after 34+ years (and no, it really hasn't). I know many like the album, and that's fine, again I like just a bit of it, and some try to make excuses why it was a huge failure (the timing, the recording, etc etc). But the bottom line is, it's just not really that good. And with bands like AC/DC, Priest, Van Halen and more giving the people what they really wanted, The Elder still makes you wonder just what the hell was wrong with these guys back then.
Red, I have to agree with most of what you said. As a fan dating back to 1975, I was initially concerned with Unmasked, and genuinly woried for the band, but it was The Smelder that kicked me hard in the stomach. I never gave up on the band and certainly didn't burn my Kiss Army member ID card, but I knew Kiss had hit absolute bottom with the Elder. Try as I did to love the album, it could not measure up by any stretch to some of the releases by the band's you mentioned.

That said, I am in line to purchase this book.
Last edited by destroyerrnro on Wed May 25, 2016 12:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: "Odyssey": Definitive Book On The Elder Coming Fall 2016

Post by NIGHTTHING » Wed May 25, 2016 12:22 pm

Admin wrote:Image
Holy ghost! That's surreal!

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Re: "Odyssey": Definitive Book On The Elder Coming Fall 2016

Post by sugardaddy » Wed May 25, 2016 2:06 pm

69th_B1izard wrote:
Admin wrote:Image

Known to many as arch-villain "The Penguin" on 1960's "Batman" TV show, or Rocky Balboa's trainer, Mickey Goldmill, in the first three Rocky films, Burgess Meredith was one actor strongly considered for the roll as "narrator" for "The Elder." He had portrayed the poet Ammon in the 1981 movie, "Clash of the Titans."
He would have been perfect! As for the magazine you are looking for, I still say that looks like Grizzly Adams.

I agree. Burgess Meredith would have been an ideal choice.

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Re: "Odyssey": Definitive Book On The Elder Coming Fall 2016

Post by 120 Decibels Jr. » Fri May 27, 2016 8:34 am

69th_B1izard wrote:
Admin wrote:Image

Known to many as arch-villain "The Penguin" on 1960's "Batman" TV show, or Rocky Balboa's trainer, Mickey Goldmill, in the first three Rocky films, Burgess Meredith was one actor strongly considered for the roll as "narrator" for "The Elder." He had portrayed the poet Ammon in the 1981 movie, "Clash of the Titans."
He would have been perfect! As for the magazine you are looking for, I still say that looks like Grizzly Adams.







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Re: "Odyssey": Definitive Book On The Elder Coming Fall 2016

Post by brovarnmm » Fri May 27, 2016 5:28 pm

timstar78 wrote:And yes, Bob Ezrin has given us what we feel is the "definitive Elder" interview. We had an entire afternoon with Bob in Nashville and no questions were off-limits. I believe it to be the first time (including the album's promo campaign in 1981) Bob has discussed this particular album/period in such extensive detail -- in recent years, it's always been a question here, a question there. For that, we are extremely grateful to Bob.
This has me rubbing my palms together in anticipation. :)

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