Vinnie lead phrases

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Rockandrolloverman
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Vinnie lead phrases

Post by Rockandrolloverman »

Does he have any that are memorable?

Over his entire solo career, the only lead phrase I can even remember, not that it’s any good, but I remember is his picking chromatic notes, four per string, then jump to the next string, and four more… and repeat all the way down the neck ……and that doesn’t even sound good, I just remembered for his reputation of using it so often

Every other lead player of any notoriety has some memorable phrases, if not numerous memorable phrases, that they are known for, that makes a “musical statement” within the lead run

But Vinnie has no memorable actual “phrases”, whatsoever, ar ALL. His entire style has absolutely zero substance to it


And he fancies himself a guitar hero
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Re: Vinnie lead phrases

Post by Bruce »

Stacked intervals ... chordal riffing ... hammer-ons, bends and trills ... that about sums it up.
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Re: Vinnie lead phrases

Post by ozweepay »

He did not carve out a niche signature sound and style for himself, no. He could be very technical, but needed to rein some of that in, instead of just regurgitating every cliche lick from the 80's at top speed. A bit tragic, he had the ability to really be a standout player. Reminds me of Akira Takasaki from Loudness. Great player, but not really a standout in creating his own style.
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Re: Vinnie lead phrases

Post by drmoorejr »

Bruce wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 6:24 pm Stacked intervals ... chordal riffing ... hammer-ons, bends and trills ... that about sums it up.
you just describe Ace.
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Re: Vinnie lead phrases

Post by Bruce »

I'm a fan of Bruce Kulick's guitar playing for a reason!
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Re: Vinnie lead phrases

Post by Rockandrolloverman »

ozweepay wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 6:55 pm He did not carve out a niche signature sound and style for himself, no. He could be very technical, but needed to rein some of that in, instead of just regurgitating every cliche lick from the 80's at top speed. A bit tragic, he had the ability to really be a standout player. Reminds me of Akira Takasaki from Loudness. Great player, but not really a standout in creating his own style.
Yes he did have the ability to write memorable phrases, as he proved on lick it up album, with Paul and Gene keeping a harness on his ego

but once he was on his own, all of the musicality went right down the toilet

His solo career was fast what are the sake of fast , worthless bullshit that you could not remember five minutes after you heard it (I will admit his solo to “that time of year” did seem to be thought-out and controlled, so there’s one exception)


I think Vinnie was very delusional in his thinking that merely picking as fast as he could (many times sounding sloppy and beyond his ability ). He thought that would be more important than writing something that was fast in spots, but also had Merrillville phrases blended within it

Speed is memorable and effective when use within context and within limits…. not speed for the sake of speed

That overall “sound” becomes meaningless noise that people quickly forget


he never got that
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Re: Vinnie lead phrases

Post by drmoorejr »

Rockandrolloverman wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 7:42 pm
ozweepay wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 6:55 pm He did not carve out a niche signature sound and style for himself, no. He could be very technical, but needed to rein some of that in, instead of just regurgitating every cliche lick from the 80's at top speed. A bit tragic, he had the ability to really be a standout player. Reminds me of Akira Takasaki from Loudness. Great player, but not really a standout in creating his own style.
Yes he did have the ability to write memorable phrases, as he proved on lick it up album, with Paul and Gene keeping a harness on his ego

but once he was on his own, all of the musicality went right down the toilet

His solo career was fast what are the sake of fast , worthless bullshit that you could not remember five minutes after you heard it (I will admit his solo to “that time of year” did seem to be thought-out and controlled, so there’s one exception)


I think Vinnie was very delusional in his thinking that merely picking as fast as he could (many times sounding sloppy and beyond his ability ). He thought that would be more important than writing something that was fast in spots, but also had Merrillville phrases blended within it

Speed is memorable and effective when use within context and within limits…. not speed for the sake of speed

That overall “sound” becomes meaningless noise that people quickly forget


he never got that

I wasn't going to even respond this thread.. but I one more time.. dude you are so full of shit.. That is all I'll say on this.
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Re: Vinnie lead phrases

Post by Doose »

drmoorejr wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 7:45 pm
Rockandrolloverman wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 7:42 pm
ozweepay wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 6:55 pm He did not carve out a niche signature sound and style for himself, no. He could be very technical, but needed to rein some of that in, instead of just regurgitating every cliche lick from the 80's at top speed. A bit tragic, he had the ability to really be a standout player. Reminds me of Akira Takasaki from Loudness. Great player, but not really a standout in creating his own style.
Yes he did have the ability to write memorable phrases, as he proved on lick it up album, with Paul and Gene keeping a harness on his ego

but once he was on his own, all of the musicality went right down the toilet

His solo career was fast what are the sake of fast , worthless bullshit that you could not remember five minutes after you heard it (I will admit his solo to “that time of year” did seem to be thought-out and controlled, so there’s one exception)


I think Vinnie was very delusional in his thinking that merely picking as fast as he could (many times sounding sloppy and beyond his ability ). He thought that would be more important than writing something that was fast in spots, but also had Merrillville phrases blended within it

Speed is memorable and effective when use within context and within limits…. not speed for the sake of speed

That overall “sound” becomes meaningless noise that people quickly forget


he never got that

I wasn't going to even respond this thread.. but I one more time.. dude you are so full of shit.. That is all I'll say on this.
Vinnie's failure in the music business and total lack of career says he's right.
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Re: Vinnie lead phrases

Post by ZachAttack »

Oh man, it's been almost 5 minutes since we had a "aLl vInNiE dOeS iS pLaY rEaLlY fASt" thread
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Re: Vinnie lead phrases

Post by Where's Drago? »

Rockandrolloverman wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 6:05 pm Does he have any that are memorable?
All Hell's Breakin' Loose is as good as anything to appear on a KISS record, in my opinion.
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Re: Vinnie lead phrases

Post by TheSpoiler »

Where's Drago? wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 3:18 am
Rockandrolloverman wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 6:05 pm Does he have any that are memorable?
All Hell's Breakin' Loose is as good as anything to appear on a KISS record, in my opinion.
....as is War Machine, Fits Like A Glove, Saint & Sinner etc. Then you can move onto the live stuff that he didn't play on record - Creatures, Love Gun, Calling Dr Love. Etc. Plenty of memorable lead phrasing from VV.
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Re: Vinnie lead phrases

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TheSpoiler wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 3:50 am
Where's Drago? wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 3:18 am
Rockandrolloverman wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 6:05 pm Does he have any that are memorable?
All Hell's Breakin' Loose is as good as anything to appear on a KISS record, in my opinion.
....as is War Machine, Fits Like A Glove, Saint & Sinner etc. Then you can move onto the live stuff that he didn't play on record - Creatures, Love Gun, Calling Dr Love. Etc. Plenty of memorable lead phrasing from VV.
Too true. No idea why people would want to flaunt their ignorance as if they were showing off a newly purchased silver pocket watch.
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Re: Vinnie lead phrases

Post by Wiped Out 78 »

Rockandrolloverman wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 6:05 pm Every other lead player of any notoriety has some memorable phrases, if not numerous memorable phrases, that they are known for, that makes a “musical statement” within the lead run

But Vinnie has no memorable actual “phrases”, whatsoever, ar ALL. His entire style has absolutely zero substance to it
Eh. Vinnie's trademark is a chicken picked pentatonic/dorian lick that he uses all the time. It's all over the VVI albums, his live stuff (Dr. Love/Brazil), Not For The Innocent, Fits Like A Glove, and Gimme More (below, 0:28, 2:06, 2:18):



Spent a long time trying to figure that one out. Doesn't help that my hybrid picking kinda sucks.

As far as Vinnie's style, if you listen to his pre-KISS stuff (Treasure, Laura Nyro, Dan Hartman), he's a melodic player with a strong Jeff Beck influence. Unfortunately, in the 80's he decided that he could make his mark by outshredding everyone. That's a shame. Those VVI albums would've been better with 70's style Vinnie Cusano solos.
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Re: Vinnie lead phrases

Post by drmoorejr »

Wiped Out 78 wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 5:19 am
Rockandrolloverman wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 6:05 pm Every other lead player of any notoriety has some memorable phrases, if not numerous memorable phrases, that they are known for, that makes a “musical statement” within the lead run

But Vinnie has no memorable actual “phrases”, whatsoever, ar ALL. His entire style has absolutely zero substance to it
Eh. Vinnie's trademark is a chicken picked pentatonic/dorian lick that he uses all the time. It's all over the VVI albums, his live stuff (Dr. Love/Brazil), Not For The Innocent, Fits Like A Glove, and Gimme More (below, 0:28, 2:06, 2:18):



Spent a long time trying to figure that one out. Doesn't help that my hybrid picking kinda sucks.

As far as Vinnie's style, if you listen to his pre-KISS stuff (Treasure, Laura Nyro, Dan Hartman), he's a melodic player with a strong Jeff Beck influence. Unfortunately, in the 80's he decided that he could make his mark by outshredding everyone. That's a shame. Those VVI albums would've been better with 70's style Vinnie Cusano solos.
Finally a decent post from someone with real points.

I agree that the stuff Vinnie did before KISS and the 1980's was more interesting. With the exception of the song 'Over You'. The similarities of the KISS songs you point out are what many on this board claim ("Gene and Paul 'reigning in' Vinnie")? Maybe maybe not but the Vinnie haters can't have it both ways. The 1980's style shredding was what Gene and Paul wanted and the licks you mentioned are their choice or they weren't. But what came after KISS was (in my opinion) a continuation of the 1980's shred. I like some shredding sure, but I appreciate the Jeff Beck style playing myself.
Last edited by drmoorejr on Wed Jul 28, 2021 7:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Vinnie lead phrases

Post by Julien »

I think Vinnie was more than just "one of those 1980s shredders." Oh, sure, Gene and Paul wanted to keep up with the joneses, and would fall flat on their face in 1984 with that approach. Vinnie had those skills, but the Beckian influence and sense of melody was way more key. As was his songwriting. Or taking the germs of ideas Gene and Paul had and injecting them full of... As for reining him in, I think in 82-3 he was more self-filtering, and kept to the spirit of "KISS" more, but how could being on some of those stages, seeing the opening bands perform, and simply having a feeling of humdrum not affect him? It's not like being reined in or constraining made KISS a monster again. The patient was stabilized, but I don't doubt he wanted to evolve, and have more of that playing feature where he wanted it in songs, not where G&P specified. Or to write the sorts of songs where it could sit. Again, return to "Animalize." They likely did with another player some of what Vinnie himself wanted to do with them, but probably went about communicating in the wrong way. And then with Mark they lost far more than they gained.

No matter what people think of him personally, he was an incredible talent. Multifaceted from a plethora of styles and techniques, and while there may not be a simple single phrase or technique, there was a damned warehouse full of 'em. That's why I want crystal clear GFH, to hear all the guitar tracks distinctively and bask in the metallic symphony.
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Re: Vinnie lead phrases

Post by Where's Drago? »

Julien wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 6:29 am I think Vinnie was more than just "one of those 1980s shredders." Oh, sure, Gene and Paul wanted to keep up with the joneses, and would fall flat on their face in 1984 with that approach. Vinnie had those skills, but the Beckian influence and sense of melody was way more key. As was his songwriting. Or taking the germs of ideas Gene and Paul had and injecting them full of... As for reining him in, I think in 82-3 he was more self-filtering, and kept to the spirit of "KISS" more, but how could being on some of those stages, seeing the opening bands perform, and simply having a feeling of humdrum not affect him? It's not like being reined in or constraining made KISS a monster again. The patient was stabilized, but I don't doubt he wanted to evolve, and have more of that playing feature where he wanted it in songs, not where G&P specified. Or to write the sorts of songs where it could sit. Again, return to "Animalize." They likely did with another player some of what Vinnie himself wanted to do with them, but probably went about communicating in the wrong way. And then with Mark they lost far more than they gained.

No matter what people think of him personally, he was an incredible talent. Multifaceted from a plethora of styles and techniques, and while there may not be a simple single phrase or technique, there was a damned warehouse full of 'em. That's why I want crystal clear GFH, to hear all the guitar tracks distinctively and bask in the metallic symphony.
I've long said it; Heaven's on Fire is Paul and Desmond's attempt at covering the loss of Vinnie's song writing skills. They damn near did it, as well. It's just missing Vinnie.
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Re: Vinnie lead phrases

Post by drmoorejr »

Julien wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 6:29 am I think Vinnie was more than just "one of those 1980s shredders." Oh, sure, Gene and Paul wanted to keep up with the joneses, and would fall flat on their face in 1984 with that approach. Vinnie had those skills, but the Beckian influence and sense of melody was way more key. As was his songwriting. Or taking the germs of ideas Gene and Paul had and injecting them full of... As for reining him in, I think in 82-3 he was more self-filtering, and kept to the spirit of "KISS" more, but how could being on some of those stages, seeing the opening bands perform, and simply having a feeling of humdrum not affect him? It's not like being reined in or constraining made KISS a monster again. The patient was stabilized, but I don't doubt he wanted to evolve, and have more of that playing feature where he wanted it in songs, not where G&P specified. Or to write the sorts of songs where it could sit. Again, return to "Animalize." They likely did with another player some of what Vinnie himself wanted to do with them, but probably went about communicating in the wrong way. And then with Mark they lost far more than they gained.

No matter what people think of him personally, he was an incredible talent. Multifaceted from a plethora of styles and techniques, and while there may not be a simple single phrase or technique, there was a damned warehouse full of 'em. That's why I want crystal clear GFH, to hear all the guitar tracks distinctively and bask in the metallic symphony.
yep
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Re: Vinnie lead phrases

Post by TheSpoiler »

I recall hearing the Los Angeles 83 bootleg for the first time and just being blown away by VV's playing. There was so much more attack, and what to my ears was quite headspinning creativity compared to his predecessor. Listening to that old cassette, I remember thinking "what an upgrade".

If there was a way for Vinnie to stay in Kiss, I do think they could have had a second season for the band right there. As someone has said here before, mix the best of Animalize with the VVI album, plaster VV's playing upfront and foremost and that could have been THE killer Kiss album.

If only.
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Re: Vinnie lead phrases

Post by LordThurisaz »

ozweepay wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 6:55 pm Reminds me of Akira Takasaki from Loudness. Great player, but not really a standout in creating his own style.
I would disagree. Akira has a great style that differs from the guys he tends to get compared to. It's really interesting when he throws in a Rush or jazz type chord thing when playing rhythm. If memory serves, one of the early albums even has a clean solo over a distorted riff, which is odd and awesome at the same time.
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Re: Vinnie lead phrases

Post by LordThurisaz »

drmoorejr wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 7:45 pm
Rockandrolloverman wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 7:42 pm
ozweepay wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 6:55 pm He did not carve out a niche signature sound and style for himself, no. He could be very technical, but needed to rein some of that in, instead of just regurgitating every cliche lick from the 80's at top speed. A bit tragic, he had the ability to really be a standout player. Reminds me of Akira Takasaki from Loudness. Great player, but not really a standout in creating his own style.
Yes he did have the ability to write memorable phrases, as he proved on lick it up album, with Paul and Gene keeping a harness on his ego

but once he was on his own, all of the musicality went right down the toilet

His solo career was fast what are the sake of fast , worthless bullshit that you could not remember five minutes after you heard it (I will admit his solo to “that time of year” did seem to be thought-out and controlled, so there’s one exception)


I think Vinnie was very delusional in his thinking that merely picking as fast as he could (many times sounding sloppy and beyond his ability ). He thought that would be more important than writing something that was fast in spots, but also had Merrillville phrases blended within it

Speed is memorable and effective when use within context and within limits…. not speed for the sake of speed

That overall “sound” becomes meaningless noise that people quickly forget


he never got that
I wasn't going to even respond this thread.. but I one more time.. dude you are so full of shit.. That is all I'll say on this.
No, he's not.
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Re: Vinnie lead phrases

Post by Bruce »

Came across this video and found it relevant:



A curious collection of clips featuring brief excerpts of Vinnie Vincent leads from most of the projects he was associated with.