Peter on the Payroll?

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Peter on the Payroll?

Post by Asylumize »

How long was Peter on the payroll after leaving Kiss in 80? In Kiss and Sell it says he was still getting a quarter share of everything until 83?? Why would they continue to pay him if he was such a pain in the ass according to G&P? Is this why Paul hates him so much?? ( one of many reasons I’m sure ) Musy have driven Paul crazy to have to pay him for doing nothing while the band was on life support!
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Re: Peter on the Payroll?

Post by Homer Simpson »

I think they kept Peter on the payroll to make the split a little more amicable and for various legal issues. Remember, this was a very different situation than when Ace left. Peter was a full member of the band who was being fired. Even though Peter was being fired, he had certain rights as a member of the band---and I'm guessing that included a very generous severance as well as contractual obligations owed to him as a co-owner of Kiss. Contrast that with Ace who was a full member of the band and left by choice. You have to give up a lot when you want to get rid of a full partner, but when a full partner decides to leave, he loses a lot of his bargaining power.

I would be surprised if he got a full 25%, but who knows. I certainly wasn't there. Just speculation on my part
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Re: Peter on the Payroll?

Post by nibbler1982 »

Asylumize wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 1:45 pm How long was Peter on the payroll after leaving Kiss in 80? In Kiss and Sell it says he was still getting a quarter share of everything until 83?? Why would they continue to pay him if he was such a pain in the ass according to G&P? Is this why Paul hates him so much?? ( one of many reasons I’m sure ) Musy have driven Paul crazy to have to pay him for doing nothing while the band was on life support!
I do believe Pete was defrocked of all things KISS and Cat on February 3, 1987
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Re: Peter on the Payroll?

Post by Holmgren »

Was he paid seven years for doing nothing?
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Re: Peter on the Payroll?

Post by nibbler1982 »

Holmgren wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:32 pm Was he paid seven years for doing nothing?
I don’t what he was paid.

Although apparently according to this document Pete transferred “all his right, title, and interest in KISS” on February 3, 1987.
6A8314CB-2DDD-4B01-BAED-CAF3F78FA1A7.jpeg
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Re: Peter on the Payroll?

Post by Holmgren »

nibbler1982 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:38 pm
Holmgren wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:32 pm Was he paid seven years for doing nothing?
I don’t what he was paid.

Although apparently according to this document Pete transferred “all his right, title, and interest in KISS” on February 3, 1987.
6A8314CB-2DDD-4B01-BAED-CAF3F78FA1A7.jpeg
Thanks, interesting!
But no, not fully understood.
👍
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Re: Peter on the Payroll?

Post by Doose »

My understanding was Peter was still paid his share in KISS as part of the agreement for him to leave. It was the cost of doing business. So apparently Peter had better lawyers in 1980 than in 1987 or 1996 - he was able to hold Paul and Gene over a barrel to negotiate a pretty sweet deal to leave. And Peter wasn't a signatory to their new, rich contract around that time, so they could afford to let him go, probably thinking the riches would keep rolling in.

The one interesting thing about the 1996 agreement is it solidifies Peter had/has given up all rights to his makeup in no uncertain terms.

How many shows did the original band play between 1996-2000?
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Re: Peter on the Payroll?

Post by nibbler1982 »

Holmgren wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:49 pm
nibbler1982 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:38 pm
Holmgren wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:32 pm Was he paid seven years for doing nothing?
I don’t what he was paid.

Although apparently according to this document Pete transferred “all his right, title, and interest in KISS” on February 3, 1987.
6A8314CB-2DDD-4B01-BAED-CAF3F78FA1A7.jpeg
Thanks, interesting!
But no, not fully understood.
👍
Apparently Peter was still a shareholder in “KISS Corp” until he transferred “all his right, title, and interest” in the company on 2/3/87.

So up until that point, with his “right, title, and interest” he was entitled to restitution from the company. How much? I’d really love to know.

That day is more than likely the effective date he gave up ownership of the Catman character.
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Re: Peter on the Payroll?

Post by Asylumize »

Wow! I can’t believe that Gene and Paul would pay Peter for 7-8 years to essentially stay away!😂
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Re: Peter on the Payroll?

Post by SpinningAcorn »

Holmgren wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:32 pm Was he paid seven years for doing nothing?
Kiss didn't have profits (or much) during that time, so I doubt Peter got much.
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Re: Peter on the Payroll?

Post by mot$$33 »

nibbler1982 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:38 pm
Holmgren wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:32 pm Was he paid seven years for doing nothing?
I don’t what he was paid.

Although apparently according to this document Pete transferred “all his right, title, and interest in KISS” on February 3, 1987.
6A8314CB-2DDD-4B01-BAED-CAF3F78FA1A7.jpeg
Does GAPP 96 Ltd stand for Gene Ace Peter Paul 96 Ltd???
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Re: Peter on the Payroll?

Post by Doose »

SpinningAcorn wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 4:41 pm
Holmgren wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:32 pm Was he paid seven years for doing nothing?
Kiss didn't have profits (or much) during that time, so I doubt Peter got much.
They still got big advances on The Elder and Creatures...that's why they tried so hard to keep Ace. When Ace left, the record contract had to be renegotiated since Ace was a signatory to it. I recall reading they were getting $2 million advances per album.

I also remember reading Peter was sending his bills to Glickman/Marks to be paid through that 6-7 years.

I think one thing we can all agree on: The original 4 each made enough money in the 70s that NONE of them should ever have had to work again for the rest of their lives, and they ALL kind of screwed it up.
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Re: Peter on the Payroll?

Post by nibbler1982 »

mot$$33 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 5:44 pm
nibbler1982 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:38 pm
Holmgren wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:32 pm Was he paid seven years for doing nothing?
I don’t what he was paid.

Although apparently according to this document Pete transferred “all his right, title, and interest in KISS” on February 3, 1987.
6A8314CB-2DDD-4B01-BAED-CAF3F78FA1A7.jpeg
Does GAPP 96 Ltd stand for Gene Ace Peter Paul 96 Ltd???
I would t believe so, since that company and Peter Criss are entering into an agreement.
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Re: Peter on the Payroll?

Post by Mr Slow »

Asylumize wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 4:38 pm Wow! I can’t believe that Gene and Paul would pay Peter for 7-8 years to essentially stay away!😂
Yeah and it brings less discussion than when they paid him to stay away from PSYCHO CIRCUS! :D
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Re: Peter on the Payroll?

Post by SpinningAcorn »

Doose wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 5:50 pm
SpinningAcorn wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 4:41 pm
Holmgren wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:32 pm Was he paid seven years for doing nothing?
Kiss didn't have profits (or much) during that time, so I doubt Peter got much.
They still got big advances on The Elder and Creatures...that's why they tried so hard to keep Ace. When Ace left, the record contract had to be renegotiated since Ace was a signatory to it. I recall reading they were getting $2 million advances per album.

I also remember reading Peter was sending his bills to Glickman/Marks to be paid through that 6-7 years.

I think one thing we can all agree on: The original 4 each made enough money in the 70s that NONE of them should ever have had to work again for the rest of their lives, and they ALL kind of screwed it up.
You're right they did get big advances but they almost blew all the money recording the albums from what I remember. Then when you figure in all their other expenses, I would imagine they had big losses on the balance sheets in 1980 and not doing 81.

Also didn't they only have like two or three million each by 79? Now granted most people can live on that the rest of their lives if they didn't have expensive taste and lifestyle.

But we probably thought they were each worth 10 million or more back then based on merchandise sales and other things. We had no idea they barely saw a tiny fraction of the hundred million a year in merchandise sales
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Re: Peter on the Payroll?

Post by mot$$33 »

nibbler1982 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 6:01 pm
mot$$33 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 5:44 pm
nibbler1982 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:38 pm
Holmgren wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:32 pm Was he paid seven years for doing nothing?
I don’t what he was paid.

Although apparently according to this document Pete transferred “all his right, title, and interest in KISS” on February 3, 1987.
6A8314CB-2DDD-4B01-BAED-CAF3F78FA1A7.jpeg
Does GAPP 96 Ltd stand for Gene Ace Peter Paul 96 Ltd???
I would t believe so, since that company and Peter Criss are entering into an agreement.

My first thought was exactly yours, but then I thought Gene & Paul could name that entity anything they want and that fit the initials!!
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Re: Peter on the Payroll?

Post by nibbler1982 »

mot$$33 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 6:56 pm
nibbler1982 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 6:01 pm
mot$$33 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 5:44 pm
nibbler1982 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:38 pm

I don’t what he was paid.

Although apparently according to this document Pete transferred “all his right, title, and interest in KISS” on February 3, 1987.
6A8314CB-2DDD-4B01-BAED-CAF3F78FA1A7.jpeg
Does GAPP 96 Ltd stand for Gene Ace Peter Paul 96 Ltd???
I would t believe so, since that company and Peter Criss are entering into an agreement.

My first thought was exactly yours, but then I thought Gene & Paul could name that entity anything they want and that fit the initials!!
True.

But could you see Paul Stanley letting Gene AND Ace’s initials come before his?
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Re: Peter on the Payroll?

Post by weboes »

This is why I don't feel super bad about Peter's salary during the reunion. I doubt he was getting a ton of money but he was getting something all those years and he would have gotten a payment when he was bought out.
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Re: Peter on the Payroll?

Post by sneed78 »

nibbler1982 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 7:45 pm
mot$$33 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 6:56 pm
nibbler1982 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 6:01 pm
mot$$33 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 5:44 pm

Does GAPP 96 Ltd stand for Gene Ace Peter Paul 96 Ltd???
I would t believe so, since that company and Peter Criss are entering into an agreement.

My first thought was exactly yours, but then I thought Gene & Paul could name that entity anything they want and that fit the initials!!
True.

But could you see Paul Stanley letting Gene AND Ace’s initials come before his?
Oh yeah... and what if Peter’s the first P? 🤓
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Re: Peter on the Payroll?

Post by Strutterer »

Love threads like this! The business side of Kiss is one area that keeps me going after all these years.

I agree with the earlier point that none of the originals should have needed the money post-1980. Granted, their lifestyles and inability to plan for the future made financial comfort impossible by the mid-80s. It's a shame that Ace and Peter, and to a lesser extent Gene and Paul, were so in need of a big payday by 1996.

Do we know what the predecessor holding co. for Kiss or the original members was pre-GAPP 96? The structuring of rock bands' businesses has always interested me. If others are keen, check out the Eagles and 3E. Lots of dirt and boardroom intrigue there, not unlike our boys.
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Re: Peter on the Payroll?

Post by SpinningAcorn »

Strutterer wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 9:39 pm Love threads like this! The business side of Kiss is one area that keeps me going after all these years.

I agree with the earlier point that none of the originals should have needed the money post-1980. Granted, their lifestyles and inability to plan for the future made financial comfort impossible by the mid-80s. It's a shame that Ace and Peter, and to a lesser extent Gene and Paul, were so in need of a big payday by 1996.

Do we know what the predecessor holding co. for Kiss or the original members was pre-GAPP 96? The structuring of rock bands' businesses has always interested me. If others are keen, check out the Eagles and 3E. Lots of dirt and boardroom intrigue there, not unlike our boys.
I've never seen or heard one interviewer asked his business manager what kind of salaries Gean and Paul were taking during those years from 1980 to 1987.

You would think they would have to be taking a salary for touring & all the other work they put in. They would want to beef up the expenses as much as they could so Peter would get as little as possible.

I don't know why nobody asked him about that. Or if they have I hadn't seen it.
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Re: Peter on the Payroll?

Post by nibbler1982 »

SpinningAcorn wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 9:53 pm
Strutterer wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 9:39 pm Love threads like this! The business side of Kiss is one area that keeps me going after all these years.

I agree with the earlier point that none of the originals should have needed the money post-1980. Granted, their lifestyles and inability to plan for the future made financial comfort impossible by the mid-80s. It's a shame that Ace and Peter, and to a lesser extent Gene and Paul, were so in need of a big payday by 1996.

Do we know what the predecessor holding co. for Kiss or the original members was pre-GAPP 96? The structuring of rock bands' businesses has always interested me. If others are keen, check out the Eagles and 3E. Lots of dirt and boardroom intrigue there, not unlike our boys.
I've never seen or heard one interviewer asked his business manager what kind of salaries Gean and Paul were taking during those years from 1980 to 1987.

You would think they would have to be taking a salary for touring & all the other work they put in. They would want to beef up the expenses as much as they could so Peter would get as little as possible.

I don't know why nobody asked him about that. Or if they have I hadn't seen it.
It’s the SEVENTH SIGN!!!

Spininxie and I share the SAME EXACT thought.

Paul and Gene MUST’VE been drawing one hell of a salary all those years to keep money outta Pete’s hands.

Classic restructuring at its finest!
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Re: Peter on the Payroll?

Post by Engine742 »

I remember reading in a book, can’t remember which one but the Kiss Corp had a lot of money invested in real estate and some other thing and there were changes in the tax laws and they economy was down so they lost most of their money plus paying Peter was a drain on Kiss Corp. Gene and Paul were getting paid by Kiss Corp just like Peter was and they were doing all the work and getting very little in return. That is when they decided to finally buy out Peter in full.
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Re: Peter on the Payroll?

Post by Tallbear13 »

nibbler1982 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:38 pm
Holmgren wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:32 pm Was he paid seven years for doing nothing?
I don’t what he was paid.

Although apparently according to this document Pete transferred “all his right, title, and interest in KISS” on February 3, 1987.
6A8314CB-2DDD-4B01-BAED-CAF3F78FA1A7.jpeg
Love seeing docs like this gives you the inside of the business part plus a buyout when they were having a cashflow problem too people forget those parts of stories
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Re: Peter on the Payroll?

Post by Strutterer »

nibbler1982 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 10:18 pm
SpinningAcorn wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 9:53 pm
Strutterer wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 9:39 pm Love threads like this! The business side of Kiss is one area that keeps me going after all these years.

I agree with the earlier point that none of the originals should have needed the money post-1980. Granted, their lifestyles and inability to plan for the future made financial comfort impossible by the mid-80s. It's a shame that Ace and Peter, and to a lesser extent Gene and Paul, were so in need of a big payday by 1996.

Do we know what the predecessor holding co. for Kiss or the original members was pre-GAPP 96? The structuring of rock bands' businesses has always interested me. If others are keen, check out the Eagles and 3E. Lots of dirt and boardroom intrigue there, not unlike our boys.
I've never seen or heard one interviewer asked his business manager what kind of salaries Gean and Paul were taking during those years from 1980 to 1987.

You would think they would have to be taking a salary for touring & all the other work they put in. They would want to beef up the expenses as much as they could so Peter would get as little as possible.

I don't know why nobody asked him about that. Or if they have I hadn't seen it.
It’s the SEVENTH SIGN!!!

Spininxie and I share the SAME EXACT thought.

Paul and Gene MUST’VE been drawing one hell of a salary all those years to keep money outta Pete’s hands.

Classic restructuring at its finest!
I suspect you're both right. No doubt Gene and Paul would structure their earnings and the Corp's finances to ensure Peter saw a declining drip of income throughout the 1980s. I'm sure Lendt and others saw to that as well.
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Re: Peter on the Payroll?

Post by nibbler1982 »

Engine742 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 10:19 pm I remember reading in a book, can’t remember which one but the Kiss Corp had a lot of money invested in real estate and some other thing and there were changes in the tax laws and they economy was down so they lost most of their money plus paying Peter was a drain on Kiss Corp. Gene and Paul were getting paid by Kiss Corp just like Peter was and they were doing all the work and getting very little in return. That is when they decided to finally buy out Peter in full.
Paul and Gene BEING KISS Corp they would set the terms.

They were NEVER getting paid just like Peter. Anyone that knows anything about the business end of corporate entities could GUARANTEE P & G would stack their salaries every chance they get…year after year. That would decrease the amount of KISS Corp profit. Which would severely curtail Peter’s cut.

I have a buddy with a pretty good business. He ended up marrying the nanny. It’s gonna drive his ex-wife to murder they way he’s top end salarying the now nanny-wifey and keeping profits from the ex.

All’s fair.
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Re: Peter on the Payroll?

Post by Kissest »

Kiss Corp was Ace Gene Peter and Paul. They had equal shares and the money made with four faces made them all equals. They were getting paid the same money. When Peter left he owned investments with Kiss Corp.That contract states with certain exceptions and we don't know what they were. According to Peter he sold ownership with certain exceptions. He wasn't paid anything he didn't deserve. He eared his partnership and that is business. Gene and Paul drained Kiss Corp because without Peter and Ace they went down hard and it drained them in more ways than one.
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Re: Peter on the Payroll?

Post by nibbler1982 »

Kissest wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 11:12 pm Kiss Corp was Ace Gene Peter and Paul. They had equal shares and the money made with four faces made them all equals. They were getting paid the same money. When Peter left he owned investments with Kiss Corp.That contract states with certain exceptions and we don't know what they were. According to Peter he sold ownership with certain exceptions. He wasn't paid anything he didn't deserve. He eared his partnership and that is business. Gene and Paul drained Kiss Corp because without Peter and Ace they went down hard and it drained them in more ways than one.
Peter and Ace certainly at one time were ABSOLUTE EQUALS with Paul and Gene in KISS. There was NOTHING anyone could do to take that away from them. Only they could relinquish their stake.

They did.

Ace & Peter were the ones that went down hard. Not the other way around.
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Re: Peter on the Payroll?

Post by Kissest »

nibbler1982 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 11:20 pm
Kissest wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 11:12 pm Kiss Corp was Ace Gene Peter and Paul. They had equal shares and the money made with four faces made them all equals. They were getting paid the same money. When Peter left he owned investments with Kiss Corp.That contract states with certain exceptions and we don't know what they were. According to Peter he sold ownership with certain exceptions. He wasn't paid anything he didn't deserve. He eared his partnership and that is business. Gene and Paul drained Kiss Corp because without Peter and Ace they went down hard and it drained them in more ways than one.
Peter and Ace certainly at one time were ABSOLUTE EQUALS with Paul and Gene in KISS. There was NOTHING anyone could do to take that away from them. Only they could relinquish their stake.

They did.

Ace & Peter were the ones that went down hard. Not the other way around.
Peter lived just fine till 96 Right around the same time Gene and Paul also needed him again to be on top. They always need Peter and Ace to be who they are to this very day. So yeah they went down hard without them. And by the time G&P they needed P&A again they All needed each other.
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Re: Peter on the Payroll?

Post by nibbler1982 »

Kissest wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 11:38 pm
nibbler1982 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 11:20 pm
Kissest wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 11:12 pm Kiss Corp was Ace Gene Peter and Paul. They had equal shares and the money made with four faces made them all equals. They were getting paid the same money. When Peter left he owned investments with Kiss Corp.That contract states with certain exceptions and we don't know what they were. According to Peter he sold ownership with certain exceptions. He wasn't paid anything he didn't deserve. He eared his partnership and that is business. Gene and Paul drained Kiss Corp because without Peter and Ace they went down hard and it drained them in more ways than one.
Peter and Ace certainly at one time were ABSOLUTE EQUALS with Paul and Gene in KISS. There was NOTHING anyone could do to take that away from them. Only they could relinquish their stake.

They did.

Ace & Peter were the ones that went down hard. Not the other way around.
Peter lived just fine till 96 Right around the same time Gene and Paul also needed him again to be on top. They always need Peter and Ace to be who they are to this very day. So yeah they went down hard without them. And by the time G&P they needed P&A again they All needed each other.
You consider strung out on drugs with a gun in his mouth as fine???

And please explain, “ They always need Peter and Ace to be who they are to this very day.”

If by that you mean ex members of KISS that they don’t have to pay???

Oh yeah…they need Ace & Peter to be EXACTLY who the are now and forever.
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Re: Peter on the Payroll?

Post by ACESTATION »

People say Peter was running low on money by the early-mid1990's and then others say he wasn't. I'm not sure what to believe. I tend to think he was scraping bottom.
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Re: Peter on the Payroll?

Post by nibbler1982 »

ACESTATION wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 11:54 pm People say Peter was running low on money by the early-mid1990's and then others say he wasn't. I'm not sure what to believe. I tend to think he was scraping bottom.
I haven’t seen his tax returns, but Pete himself said by the Reunion he was strung out on drugs and down to his last dollars.
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Re: Peter on the Payroll?

Post by Doose »

Kissest wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 11:12 pm Kiss Corp was Ace Gene Peter and Paul. They had equal shares and the money made with four faces made them all equals. They were getting paid the same money. When Peter left he owned investments with Kiss Corp.That contract states with certain exceptions and we don't know what they were. According to Peter he sold ownership with certain exceptions. He wasn't paid anything he didn't deserve. He eared his partnership and that is business. Gene and Paul drained Kiss Corp because without Peter and Ace they went down hard and it drained them in more ways than one.
Correction: They went down hard BECAUSE of Ace and Peter. If they had stayed clean, written songs, showed up for rehearsals and been equally productive members of the band, it might have been very different. They were equal ONLY in shares. They certainly weren't equal in anything else.
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Re: Peter on the Payroll?

Post by gene therapist »

nibbler1982 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:21 pm
Asylumize wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 1:45 pm How long was Peter on the payroll after leaving Kiss in 80? In Kiss and Sell it says he was still getting a quarter share of everything until 83?? Why would they continue to pay him if he was such a pain in the ass according to G&P? Is this why Paul hates him so much?? ( one of many reasons I’m sure ) Musy have driven Paul crazy to have to pay him for doing nothing while the band was on life support!
I do believe Pete was defrocked of all things KISS and Cat on February 3, 1987
This. Making the claims that Eric Singer "stole" "Peter's" makeup yadda yadda - more than 14 years later! - all the more ludicrous. What a surprise that Peter started whining about "his" rights only after the Reunion happened. And why is that? Because Peter never cared about "the legacy" or "integrity" any more (or less) than the rest of them. Kiss care about money.
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Re: Peter on the Payroll?

Post by nibbler1982 »

gene therapist wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 12:33 am
nibbler1982 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:21 pm
Asylumize wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 1:45 pm How long was Peter on the payroll after leaving Kiss in 80? In Kiss and Sell it says he was still getting a quarter share of everything until 83?? Why would they continue to pay him if he was such a pain in the ass according to G&P? Is this why Paul hates him so much?? ( one of many reasons I’m sure ) Musy have driven Paul crazy to have to pay him for doing nothing while the band was on life support!
I do believe Pete was defrocked of all things KISS and Cat on February 3, 1987
This. Making the claims that Eric Singer "stole" "Peter's" makeup yadda yadda - more than 14 years later! - all the more ludicrous. What a surprise that Peter started whining about "his" rights only after the Reunion happened. And why is that? Because Peter never cared about "the legacy" or "integrity" any more (or less) than the rest of them. Kiss care about money.
Yeah Brother Gene, some people ignore the facts and get caught up in emotion.
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Re: Peter on the Payroll?

Post by Kissest »

Doose wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 12:01 am
Kissest wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 11:12 pm Kiss Corp was Ace Gene Peter and Paul. They had equal shares and the money made with four faces made them all equals. They were getting paid the same money. When Peter left he owned investments with Kiss Corp.That contract states with certain exceptions and we don't know what they were. According to Peter he sold ownership with certain exceptions. He wasn't paid anything he didn't deserve. He eared his partnership and that is business. Gene and Paul drained Kiss Corp because without Peter and Ace they went down hard and it drained them in more ways than one.
Correction: They went down hard BECAUSE of Ace and Peter. If they had stayed clean, written songs, showed up for rehearsals and been equally productive members of the band, it might have been very different. They were equal ONLY in shares. They certainly weren't equal in anything else.
That's the poor us Gene and Paul storytellers version. Look what they did they made us famous and rich and we're human in the 70s and got crazy and left us .Then came back made us rich and more famous and we now use the 70s issues to justify why we ripped them off and disrespect them every chance we get up to today . Oh boy .. really you can't really believe Peter and Ace Never showed up or were high 24- 7 it's an know fact Gene and Paul were always control freaks and exhaust a few times someone steps out of line to make it seem they had it so hard. Poor guys. Terrible..just sad what what they had to deal with. Haaa I just have to laugh. Fact is Gene and Paul went down hard because no one likes being controlled.
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Re: Peter on the Payroll?

Post by Tito »

gene therapist wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 12:33 am
nibbler1982 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:21 pm
Asylumize wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 1:45 pm How long was Peter on the payroll after leaving Kiss in 80? In Kiss and Sell it says he was still getting a quarter share of everything until 83?? Why would they continue to pay him if he was such a pain in the ass according to G&P? Is this why Paul hates him so much?? ( one of many reasons I’m sure ) Musy have driven Paul crazy to have to pay him for doing nothing while the band was on life support!
I do believe Pete was defrocked of all things KISS and Cat on February 3, 1987
This. Making the claims that Eric Singer "stole" "Peter's" makeup yadda yadda - more than 14 years later! - all the more ludicrous. What a surprise that Peter started whining about "his" rights only after the Reunion happened. And why is that? Because Peter never cared about "the legacy" or "integrity" any more (or less) than the rest of them. Kiss care about money.
Thing is, some of the fans do care.
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Re: Peter on the Payroll?

Post by steveh67 »

gene therapist wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 12:33 am
nibbler1982 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:21 pm
Asylumize wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 1:45 pm How long was Peter on the payroll after leaving Kiss in 80? In Kiss and Sell it says he was still getting a quarter share of everything until 83?? Why would they continue to pay him if he was such a pain in the ass according to G&P? Is this why Paul hates him so much?? ( one of many reasons I’m sure ) Musy have driven Paul crazy to have to pay him for doing nothing while the band was on life support!
I do believe Pete was defrocked of all things KISS and Cat on February 3, 1987
This. Making the claims that Eric Singer "stole" "Peter's" makeup yadda yadda - more than 14 years later! - all the more ludicrous. What a surprise that Peter started whining about "his" rights only after the Reunion happened. And why is that? Because Peter never cared about "the legacy" or "integrity" any more (or less) than the rest of them. Kiss care about money.
Ace and Peter should have had smarter people helping them out, no doubt about that. I am talking pre-reunion, just as much as reunion and beyond.

I know they were basically living on the last dollar, so it clouded their judgement, but they were nuts as it turned out.

Hindsight is wonderful thing, but I would say that they didn't look hard enough into what selling their trademark makeup would mean at the time.
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Re: Peter on the Payroll?

Post by Kissest »

nibbler1982 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 11:46 pm
Kissest wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 11:38 pm
nibbler1982 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 11:20 pm
Kissest wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 11:12 pm Kiss Corp was Ace Gene Peter and Paul. They had equal shares and the money made with four faces made them all equals. They were getting paid the same money. When Peter left he owned investments with Kiss Corp.That contract states with certain exceptions and we don't know what they were. According to Peter he sold ownership with certain exceptions. He wasn't paid anything he didn't deserve. He eared his partnership and that is business. Gene and Paul drained Kiss Corp because without Peter and Ace they went down hard and it drained them in more ways than one.
Peter and Ace certainly at one time were ABSOLUTE EQUALS with Paul and Gene in KISS. There was NOTHING anyone could do to take that away from them. Only they could relinquish their stake.

They did.

Ace & Peter were the ones that went down hard. Not the other way around.
Peter lived just fine till 96 Right around the same time Gene and Paul also needed him again to be on top. They always need Peter and Ace to be who they are to this very day. So yeah they went down hard without them. And by the time G&P they needed P&A again they All needed each other.
You consider strung out on drugs with a gun in his mouth as fine???

And please explain, “ They always need Peter and Ace to be who they are to this very day.”

If by that you mean ex members of KISS that they don’t have to pay???

Oh yeah…they need Ace & Peter to be EXACTLY who the are now and forever.
Peter was not strung out on drugs in 96 he was in the 70s not 96. And he had a suicidal moment once when he felt he had lost his family in his divorce. He was not happy but he pulled himself together. Yeah they need Ace and Peter to this very day haven't you seen the lastest show. It's still Gene Ace Peter and Paul up there and don't give me the characters blaa blaa blaa blaa. Without the four images and there musical parts there's no show . They tried that and failed.
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Re: Peter on the Payroll?

Post by lord71 »

nibbler1982 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 11:46 pm
Kissest wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 11:38 pm
nibbler1982 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 11:20 pm
Kissest wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 11:12 pm Kiss Corp was Ace Gene Peter and Paul. They had equal shares and the money made with four faces made them all equals. They were getting paid the same money. When Peter left he owned investments with Kiss Corp.That contract states with certain exceptions and we don't know what they were. According to Peter he sold ownership with certain exceptions. He wasn't paid anything he didn't deserve. He eared his partnership and that is business. Gene and Paul drained Kiss Corp because without Peter and Ace they went down hard and it drained them in more ways than one.
Peter and Ace certainly at one time were ABSOLUTE EQUALS with Paul and Gene in KISS. There was NOTHING anyone could do to take that away from them. Only they could relinquish their stake.

They did.

Ace & Peter were the ones that went down hard. Not the other way around.
Peter lived just fine till 96 Right around the same time Gene and Paul also needed him again to be on top. They always need Peter and Ace to be who they are to this very day. So yeah they went down hard without them. And by the time G&P they needed P&A again they All needed each other.
You consider strung out on drugs with a gun in his mouth as fine???

And please explain, “ They always need Peter and Ace to be who they are to this very day.”

If by that you mean ex members of KISS that they don’t have to pay???

Oh yeah…they need Ace & Peter to be EXACTLY who the are now and forever.
Didn't he have 200 or 300 k cash with him at the same time he was planning to kill himself?
That's quite a lot money...
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Re: Peter on the Payroll?

Post by Homer Simpson »

lord71 wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:24 am
Didn't he have 200 or 300 k cash with him at the same time he was planning to kill himself?
That's quite a lot money...
It is at face value, but it really wasn't when you consider he was in his late 40s (maybe early 50s?) and he had no source of regular income. That money wasn't going to last him the rest of his life.
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Re: Peter on the Payroll?

Post by nibbler1982 »

Kissest wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:50 am
nibbler1982 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 11:46 pm
Kissest wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 11:38 pm
nibbler1982 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 11:20 pm

Peter and Ace certainly at one time were ABSOLUTE EQUALS with Paul and Gene in KISS. There was NOTHING anyone could do to take that away from them. Only they could relinquish their stake.

They did.

Ace & Peter were the ones that went down hard. Not the other way around.
Peter lived just fine till 96 Right around the same time Gene and Paul also needed him again to be on top. They always need Peter and Ace to be who they are to this very day. So yeah they went down hard without them. And by the time G&P they needed P&A again they All needed each other.
You consider strung out on drugs with a gun in his mouth as fine???

And please explain, “ They always need Peter and Ace to be who they are to this very day.”

If by that you mean ex members of KISS that they don’t have to pay???

Oh yeah…they need Ace & Peter to be EXACTLY who the are now and forever.
Peter was not strung out on drugs in 96 he was in the 70s not 96. And he had a suicidal moment once when he felt he had lost his family in his divorce. He was not happy but he pulled himself together. Yeah they need Ace and Peter to this very day haven't you seen the lastest show. It's still Gene Ace Peter and Paul up there and don't give me the characters blaa blaa blaa blaa. Without the four images and there musical parts there's no show . They tried that and failed.
Wrong yet again.

Anything Paul and Gene use in THEIR show is THEIR property.

They use the characters and images that Ace & Peter once created and portrayed. They don’t NEED Paul Frehley and Peter Criscuola for anything. Paul and Gene can do whatever they want with their property.

It like how Disney can use Marvel or Star Wars characters and likenesses however they may choose.

Bought and paid for.
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Re: Peter on the Payroll?

Post by nibbler1982 »

Homer Simpson wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:13 am
lord71 wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:24 am
Didn't he have 200 or 300 k cash with him at the same time he was planning to kill himself?
That's quite a lot money...
It is at face value, but it really wasn't when you consider he was in his late 40s (maybe early 50s?) and he had no source of regular income. That money wasn't going to last him the rest of his life.
I believe Peter said his last 100k.

He was about to be neighbors with Christopher Dickinson.
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Re: Peter on the Payroll?

Post by Bandit1974 »

weboes wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 8:56 pm This is why I don't feel super bad about Peter's salary during the reunion. I doubt he was getting a ton of money but he was getting something all those years and he would have gotten a payment when he was bought out.
Ace Frehley cost Paul and Gene a LOT more money than Peter Criss did, Chief.

Kissest wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 11:12 pm Kiss Corp was Ace Gene Peter and Paul. They had equal shares and the money made with four faces made them all equals. They were getting paid the same money. When Peter left he owned investments with Kiss Corp.That contract states with certain exceptions and we don't know what they were. According to Peter he sold ownership with certain exceptions. He wasn't paid anything he didn't deserve. He eared his partnership and that is business. Gene and Paul drained Kiss Corp because without Peter and Ace they went down hard and it drained them in more ways than one.
Facts.

Kissest wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:50 am
nibbler1982 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 11:46 pm
You consider strung out on drugs with a gun in his mouth as fine???

And please explain, “ They always need Peter and Ace to be who they are to this very day.”

If by that you mean ex members of KISS that they don’t have to pay???

Oh yeah…they need Ace & Peter to be EXACTLY who the are now and forever.
Peter was not strung out on drugs in 96 he was in the 70s not 96. And he had a suicidal moment once when he felt he had lost his family in his divorce. He was not happy but he pulled himself together. Yeah they need Ace and Peter to this very day haven't you seen the lastest show. It's still Gene Ace Peter and Paul up there and don't give me the characters blaa blaa blaa blaa. Without the four images and there musical parts there's no show . They tried that and failed.
Facts.
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Re: Peter on the Payroll?

Post by Nately120 »

Holmgren wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:32 pm Was he paid seven years for doing nothing?
He Got paid for 7 years for being a founding partner of a business that was still making money until he got bought out. Seems like standard business stuff to me.
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Re: Peter on the Payroll?

Post by Doose »

Nately120 wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 7:48 am
Holmgren wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:32 pm Was he paid seven years for doing nothing?
He Got paid for 7 years for being a founding partner of a business that was still making money until he got bought out. Seems like standard business stuff to me.
7 years in, 7 years out. Maybe that's how they calculated it.
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Re: Peter on the Payroll?

Post by weboes »

Bandit1974 wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 7:38 am
weboes wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 8:56 pm This is why I don't feel super bad about Peter's salary during the reunion. I doubt he was getting a ton of money but he was getting something all those years and he would have gotten a payment when he was bought out.
Ace Frehley cost Paul and Gene a LOT more money than Peter Criss did, Chief.
True but I don't understand what that has to do with what I said about Peter and why you had to add the insult at the end. If calling someone chief isn't an insult where you come from I apologize for mentioning it.
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Re: Peter on the Payroll?

Post by Bandit1974 »

weboes wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:59 am
Bandit1974 wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 7:38 am
weboes wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 8:56 pm This is why I don't feel super bad about Peter's salary during the reunion. I doubt he was getting a ton of money but he was getting something all those years and he would have gotten a payment when he was bought out.
Ace Frehley cost Paul and Gene a LOT more money than Peter Criss did, Chief.
True but I don't understand what that has to do with what I said about Peter and why you had to add the insult at the end. If calling someone chief isn't an insult where you come from I apologize for mentioning it.

You are implying that Peter Criss deserved to get the least amount of money during the Reunion, because he was still paid by KISS 7 years after he was asked to leave the band.

But what I am saying is that if anyone deserved the lesser salary, it would be Ace Frehley. He cost Paul and Gene MILLIONS of dollars when he decided to leave KISS in 1982. Yet Ace was paid more than Peter when the original band reunited. AND he was still on drugs and would often show up late to rehearsals.

"Chief" is what I call people if I can't remember their name, much like how others say "man."
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Re: Peter on the Payroll?

Post by mot$$33 »

nibbler1982 wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:53 am
Homer Simpson wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:13 am
lord71 wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:24 am
Didn't he have 200 or 300 k cash with him at the same time he was planning to kill himself?
That's quite a lot money...
It is at face value, but it really wasn't when you consider he was in his late 40s (maybe early 50s?) and he had no source of regular income. That money wasn't going to last him the rest of his life.
I believe Peter said his last 100k.

He was about to be neighbors with Christopher Dickinson.
“Christopher Dickinson”. Awesome. What a wonderful Donohue episode that was. Should start a thread on it. What an idiot that lady and her mom were for taking him in. Haha.
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Re: Peter on the Payroll?

Post by Nately120 »

Doose wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:06 am
Nately120 wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 7:48 am
Holmgren wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:32 pm Was he paid seven years for doing nothing?
He Got paid for 7 years for being a founding partner of a business that was still making money until he got bought out. Seems like standard business stuff to me.
7 years in, 7 years out. Maybe that's how they calculated it.
I thought Peter just elected to take a buyout. I assume if he held onto his shares he'd still be a partner to this day.

Side note, both Pink Floyd and the Moody Blues have interesting stories about members who were salaried employees at times making more than those who owned a share in the band and made a percentage.