Vinnie Vincent solo in LOVE GUN

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Re: Vinnie Vincent solo in LOVE GUN

Post by LordThurisaz »

Vinnie is no different; he was the worst of the bunch and lost the plot. Even as far back as 1982.

Anyways, Eddie inspired a lot of guys, but I think quite a few of them also had a great sense of rhythm and melody as well.
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Re: Vinnie Vincent solo in LOVE GUN

Post by SpadeFreeberg »

Vinnie ruined KISS.
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Re: Vinnie Vincent solo in LOVE GUN

Post by DonnaDixon »

TheSpoiler wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 9:58 am
DonnaDixon wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 9:08 am
That 70s Guy wrote: Sat Jul 17, 2021 11:42 am His solos are all the same.
Many fans are incapable of understanding this.
Nonsense. If there was any Kiss guitarist who can be accused of shuffling and reshuffling the same solos over the decades, it's a certain Mr Frehley.

Examples: Saint & Sinner, War Machine, Fits Like a Glove, Not For The innocent, Animal (from VVI) - the only thing that is common to those solos is that they're played on a guitar.
His live solos are mostly garbage, I meant.

And usually sacrilege.
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Re: Vinnie Vincent solo in LOVE GUN

Post by LordThurisaz »

DonnaDixon wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 7:00 pm His live solos are mostly garbage, I meant.

And usually sacrilege.
Eh... most of his studio solos aren't much to write home about, either.
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Re: Vinnie Vincent solo in LOVE GUN

Post by twigz »

At least he did it his way without copying Ace note for note. Props for that.
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Re: Vinnie Vincent solo in LOVE GUN

Post by Bruce »

SpadeFreeberg wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 4:27 pm Vinnie ruined KISS.
Let's not be too hasty ...
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Re: Vinnie Vincent solo in LOVE GUN

Post by drmoorejr »

TwistedTaste wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 10:13 am
TheSpoiler wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 10:06 am
TwistedTaste wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 9:52 am
drmoorejr wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 7:34 am

EVH was an awesome rhythm guitarist. People always point out his solos, but listen to his awesome rhythm. Same for Vinnie, great rhythm and really cool chord progressions. His (Vinnie) 90's stuff had some really cool modal changes (check out 'Over You').



David
I love Eddie. And yes - his rhythm playing is incredible over rated - he had a great right hand. I’m just referring to the entire generation of soulless “typewriter” type players he inspired. I think the majority of these hair band guitarists ignored EVH’s blues based influences & just dabbled in the ”play as fast as you can” garbage. I include Bruce in this generation (& Mark as well). Vinnie was a little different imo, although I wasn’t a fan of his solo band and the direction he went in either.
Agreed about EVH. His rhythm playing had a Hendrix-like quality to it, in as much as everybody remembers the amazing solos, but there's joy to be found in the little phrases and licks that he'd throw into his rhythm stuff. Songs like Summer Nights, and Secrets from Diver Down. Amazing rhythm playing.
5150 baby.
Just a monster of rhythmic guitar playing
hell yeah
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Re: Vinnie Vincent solo in LOVE GUN

Post by Bruce »

Agreed about 5150 -- it most certainly is--!!
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Re: Vinnie Vincent solo in LOVE GUN

Post by DonnaDixon »

Bruce wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 7:34 am Agreed about 5150 -- it most certainly is--!!
Damn straight!
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Re: Vinnie Vincent solo in LOVE GUN

Post by battra »

Bruce wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 7:34 am Agreed about 5150 -- it most certainly is--!!
I wish I'd seen this before I popped on a Metallica triple LP live...

I'd have spun 5150.
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Re: Vinnie Vincent solo in LOVE GUN

Post by Kissoff »

Potato Salad wrote: Sat Jul 17, 2021 6:48 pm That was a cool solo. The best LG solo not by Ace.
Agreed
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Re: Vinnie Vincent solo in LOVE GUN

Post by DonnaDixon »

battra wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 5:12 pm
Bruce wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 7:34 am Agreed about 5150 -- it most certainly is--!!
I wish I'd seen this before I popped on a Metallica triple LP live...

I'd have spun 5150.
Next time.
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Re: Vinnie Vincent solo in LOVE GUN

Post by battra »

DonnaDixon wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 6:25 pm
battra wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 5:12 pm
Bruce wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 7:34 am Agreed about 5150 -- it most certainly is--!!
I wish I'd seen this before I popped on a Metallica triple LP live...

I'd have spun 5150.
Next time.
Eh, I popped on Xibabla Anos En Infierno, and pulled it off for Digital Underground.

I'll get back to Ladies Night In Buffalo though.

Wait...Best of Both Worlds.
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Re: Vinnie Vincent solo in LOVE GUN

Post by Eddie Van Hazel »

I LOVE "Ladies Night In Buffalo". Probably one of my favorite Steve Vai solos on tape.
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Re: Vinnie Vincent solo in LOVE GUN

Post by DonnaDixon »

battra wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 6:30 pm
DonnaDixon wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 6:25 pm
battra wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 5:12 pm
Bruce wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 7:34 am Agreed about 5150 -- it most certainly is--!!
I wish I'd seen this before I popped on a Metallica triple LP live...

I'd have spun 5150.
Next time.
Eh, I popped on Xibabla Anos En Infierno.
Oh yes, Xibabla, featuring Christopher Cross.
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Re: Vinnie Vincent solo in LOVE GUN

Post by caligari »

k1ssarmy wrote: Sat Jul 17, 2021 7:44 pm https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rKwudnfB6GM

I think this has been posted before. All of the lead guitarist’s take on this solo.
I’d say

1. Ace
2. Vinnie

A far away 3. Tommy - although I could really place him last. It’s a piss poor version of what Ace did.

A distant 4. Bruce ~ at least THIS example.
His improvisation on the KLASSIC tunes got better the longer he was in the band.

Further away at 5. Mark - God Fucking Awful -
What he’s playing has ZERO sense of direction AND it’s not even executed in time !
It’s like he isn’t even hearing the band behind him and he’s just jerking off in key.
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Re: Vinnie Vincent solo in LOVE GUN

Post by RussellScott12 »

caligari wrote: Sat Jul 17, 2021 9:56 am
He's horrible.
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Re: Vinnie Vincent solo in LOVE GUN

Post by muddfoot »

Vinnie was awesome
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Re: Vinnie Vincent solo in LOVE GUN

Post by tazchris »

If you're wired on speed Vinnie's take on Ace's solo's are brilliant.
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Re: Vinnie Vincent solo in LOVE GUN

Post by UltraCynic »

tazchris wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 3:21 pm If you're wired on speed Vinnie's take on Ace's solo's are brilliant.
Or have an appreciation of musical artistry…
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Re: Vinnie Vincent solo in LOVE GUN

Post by LordThurisaz »

UltraCynic wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 12:44 pm
tazchris wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 3:21 pm If you're wired on speed Vinnie's take on Ace's solo's are brilliant.
Or have an appreciation of musical artistry…
Oh yeah, you either love Vinnie's note diarrhea, or you have zero appreciation for "musical artistry" -- nevermind that his solos tend to be very much in the "wow, that was incredibly unmusical" camp. Gary Moore could play circles around Vinnie.
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Re: Vinnie Vincent solo in LOVE GUN

Post by LordThurisaz »

RussellScott12 wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 9:11 pm
caligari wrote: Sat Jul 17, 2021 9:56 am
He's horrible.
It has been awhile since I've listened to it and is more than one Randy Rhoads idea thrown in there. Musical artistry, folks. :lol:
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Re: Vinnie Vincent solo in LOVE GUN

Post by ObiWanFrehley »

Blistering solo! Always enjoyed it when Vinnie, or Bruce would let it rip and do it their own way. Great stuff!
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Re: Vinnie Vincent solo in LOVE GUN

Post by steve »

LordThurisaz wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 12:58 pmGary Moore could play circles around Vinnie.
Gary Moore, rest his soul, could play rings around almost anyone. Never though much of his vocals, but that's missing the point.
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Re: Vinnie Vincent solo in LOVE GUN

Post by LordThurisaz »

steve wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 8:40 pm
LordThurisaz wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 12:58 pmGary Moore could play circles around Vinnie.
Gary Moore, rest his soul, could play rings around almost anyone. Never though much of his vocals, but that's missing the point.
I love everything about Shapes of Things to Come. The solo in particular is perfect.

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Re: Vinnie Vincent solo in LOVE GUN

Post by UltraCynic »

LordThurisaz wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 12:58 pm
UltraCynic wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 12:44 pm
tazchris wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 3:21 pm If you're wired on speed Vinnie's take on Ace's solo's are brilliant.
Or have an appreciation of musical artistry…
Oh yeah, you either love Vinnie's note diarrhea, or you have zero appreciation for "musical artistry" -- nevermind that his solos tend to be very much in the "wow, that was incredibly unmusical" camp. Gary Moore could play circles around Vinnie.
To YOU it may well be “note diarrhoea”, but isn’t it funny how Vinnie’s solos - with KISS at least - adhere to a consistent structure? Perhaps you haven’t noticed. Go to any COTN tour footage and listen to ‘Love Gun’ or ‘Calling Dr. Love’, the lead breaks from show to awesome show are the same, rather than the random snarled tangle of notes and runs* you suggest.

Who doesn’t love Ace’s rehashing and rearranging of old blues licks? No one does it better: as Tommy has found out. Vinnie, though, brought something entirely different, eloquent and articulate to KISS’ lead breaks while he was there. I like Gary Moore, AND I like Vinnie, and a whole host of guitarists. Odd that you see music as a zero sum game.

* See what I did there?
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Re: Vinnie Vincent solo in LOVE GUN

Post by Revenge 92 »

I really enjoyed Vini's solo on Dr Love, but this not so much. To far from the original and way too fast for this song.
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Re: Vinnie Vincent solo in LOVE GUN

Post by Tito »

Revenge 92 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:57 am I really enjoyed Vini's solo on Dr Love, but this not so much. To far from the original and way too fast for this song.
I'd say this is closer to the original than his take on "Dr. Love".
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Re: Vinnie Vincent solo in LOVE GUN

Post by LordThurisaz »

UltraCynic wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:52 am To YOU it may well be “note diarrhoea”, but isn’t it funny how Vinnie’s solos - with KISS at least - adhere to a consistent structure? Perhaps you haven’t noticed. Go to any COTN tour footage and listen to ‘Love Gun’ or ‘Calling Dr. Love’, the lead breaks from show to awesome show are the same, rather than the random snarled tangle of notes and runs* you suggest.

Who doesn’t love Ace’s rehashing and rearranging of old blues licks? No one does it better: as Tommy has found out. Vinnie, though, brought something entirely different, eloquent and articulate to KISS’ lead breaks while he was there. I like Gary Moore, AND I like Vinnie, and a whole host of guitarists. Odd that you see music as a zero sum game.

* See what I did there?
I prefer guys like Gary Moore and Paul Gilbert who put together great ideas, taking you on a journey, with licks you want to learn for yourself, or at least break down and ask yourself, "why does this work so well?" I do not typically get that same inspiration from Vinnie. Music is about inspiration to me. If it doesn't inspire me in some fashion, I likely do not have time much time for it.
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Re: Vinnie Vincent solo in LOVE GUN

Post by curryleaf »

Vinnie's playing had real energy and raw toughness to it that no other Kiss guitarist comes close to. I can absolutely understand why plenty of people don't like his style, but if you do - and I certainly do - it sounds scorching.

His solo on 'Shoot U Full Of Love' is one of my favourite solos of all-time. It's just so ridiculously over the top and uniquely Vinnie Vincent.
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Re: Vinnie Vincent solo in LOVE GUN

Post by UltraCynic »

LordThurisaz wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 7:51 am
UltraCynic wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:52 am To YOU it may well be “note diarrhoea”, but isn’t it funny how Vinnie’s solos - with KISS at least - adhere to a consistent structure? Perhaps you haven’t noticed. Go to any COTN tour footage and listen to ‘Love Gun’ or ‘Calling Dr. Love’, the lead breaks from show to awesome show are the same, rather than the random snarled tangle of notes and runs* you suggest.

Who doesn’t love Ace’s rehashing and rearranging of old blues licks? No one does it better: as Tommy has found out. Vinnie, though, brought something entirely different, eloquent and articulate to KISS’ lead breaks while he was there. I like Gary Moore, AND I like Vinnie, and a whole host of guitarists. Odd that you see music as a zero sum game.

* See what I did there?
I prefer guys like Gary Moore and Paul Gilbert who put together great ideas, taking you on a journey, with licks you want to learn for yourself, or at least break down and ask yourself, "why does this work so well?" I do not typically get that same inspiration from Vinnie. Music is about inspiration to me. If it doesn't inspire me in some fashion, I likely do not have time much time for it.
Yep. I like Paul Gilbert too. I’ve been listening to a lot of Yes over the past few days so Trevor Rabin is my guitar hero of the week; a man who - amongst Yes fans d’un certain age who prefer Steve Howe’s sedate and studied style - is also vilified wrongly as a tasteless shredder.

I just like listening to skilled guitarists painting pictures in the 20 to 30 seconds they have for their lead section. And Vinnie’s are truly exceptional; light, shade and a deliciously angular intensity.
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Re: Vinnie Vincent solo in LOVE GUN

Post by LordThurisaz »

UltraCynic wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:01 pm Yep. I like Paul Gilbert too. I’ve been listening to a lot of Yes over the past few days so Trevor Rabin is my guitar hero of the week; a man who - amongst Yes fans d’un certain age who prefer Steve Howe’s sedate and studied style - is also vilified wrongly as a tasteless shredder.
I don't have much knowledge of Yes, so I don't know about the fans feelings with regards to Trevor vs Steve. Have any suggestions of albums to check out?
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Re: Vinnie Vincent solo in LOVE GUN

Post by UltraCynic »

LordThurisaz wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:30 pm
UltraCynic wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:01 pm Yep. I like Paul Gilbert too. I’ve been listening to a lot of Yes over the past few days so Trevor Rabin is my guitar hero of the week; a man who - amongst Yes fans d’un certain age who prefer Steve Howe’s sedate and studied style - is also vilified wrongly as a tasteless shredder.
I don't have much knowledge of Yes, so I don't know about the fans feelings with regards to Trevor vs Steve. Have any suggestions of albums to check out?
I’m biased. Early Yes was always too self-indulgent and impenetrable for me, and then Trevor Rabin - whom I’d followed as a solo artist - arrived and provided a way in to the material. ‘90125’ and ‘Big Generator’ are really good starting points and then you can do a Tenet Temporal Pincer Manoeuvre and work backward and forward through their catalogue once you’ve got the gist of what they’re trying to achieve musically.

Thank you for reminding me about Paul Gilbert. I’m going to listen to some Racer X. Nice one.
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Re: Vinnie Vincent solo in LOVE GUN

Post by LordThurisaz »

UltraCynic wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:51 pm I’m biased. Early Yes was always too self-indulgent and impenetrable for me, and then Trevor Rabin - whom I’d followed as a solo artist - arrived and provided a way in to the material. ‘90125’ and ‘Big Generator’ are really good starting points and then you can do a Tenet Temporal Pincer Manoeuvre and work backward and forward through their catalogue once you’ve got the gist of what they’re trying to achieve musically.

Thank you for reminding me about Paul Gilbert. I’m going to listen to some Racer X. Nice one.
No problem.

Thanks, I'll check it out. Also, I wasn't comparing Vinnie to Ace or similar guitarists. I was and typically have compared him to his peers (shredders, other guitarist songwriters).
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Re: Vinnie Vincent solo in LOVE GUN

Post by UltraCynic »

LordThurisaz wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 4:07 pm
UltraCynic wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:51 pm I’m biased. Early Yes was always too self-indulgent and impenetrable for me, and then Trevor Rabin - whom I’d followed as a solo artist - arrived and provided a way in to the material. ‘90125’ and ‘Big Generator’ are really good starting points and then you can do a Tenet Temporal Pincer Manoeuvre and work backward and forward through their catalogue once you’ve got the gist of what they’re trying to achieve musically.

Thank you for reminding me about Paul Gilbert. I’m going to listen to some Racer X. Nice one.
No problem.

Thanks, I'll check it out. Also, I wasn't comparing Vinnie to Ace or similar guitarists. I was and typically have compared him to his peers (shredders, other guitarist songwriters).
I remember asking a guitarist - classically trained, and probably the most accomplished musician I’ve ever played with - if Vinnie, from a purely musical standpoint, was any good. We listened to the first VVI album, and after he had retrieved his dropped jaw, his response was; “If he knows what he’s doing, he’s a genius.”

Well, it always struck me that Vinnie knew exactly what he was doing, and this validation from a master craftsman made me further appreciate what Vinnie brought to the party.

Vinnie’s choices and tone might be jarring, but I really love the shapes and patterns he conjures and teases.
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Re: Vinnie Vincent solo in LOVE GUN

Post by TheSpoiler »

UltraCynic wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:26 am
LordThurisaz wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 4:07 pm
UltraCynic wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:51 pm I’m biased. Early Yes was always too self-indulgent and impenetrable for me, and then Trevor Rabin - whom I’d followed as a solo artist - arrived and provided a way in to the material. ‘90125’ and ‘Big Generator’ are really good starting points and then you can do a Tenet Temporal Pincer Manoeuvre and work backward and forward through their catalogue once you’ve got the gist of what they’re trying to achieve musically.

Thank you for reminding me about Paul Gilbert. I’m going to listen to some Racer X. Nice one.
No problem.

Thanks, I'll check it out. Also, I wasn't comparing Vinnie to Ace or similar guitarists. I was and typically have compared him to his peers (shredders, other guitarist songwriters).
I remember asking a guitarist - classically trained, and probably the most accomplished musician I’ve ever played with - if Vinnie, from a purely musical standpoint, was any good. We listened to the first VVI album, and after he had retrieved his dropped jaw, his response was; “If he knows what he’s doing, he’s a genius.”

Well, it always struck me that Vinnie knew exactly what he was doing, and this validation from a master craftsman made me further appreciate what Vinnie brought to the party.

Vinnie’s choices and tone might be jarring, but I really love the shapes and patterns he conjures and teases.
Yep, I can understand people not enjoying Vinnie's playing, but to say it's "mindless noise" is incorrect. It reminds me of bands like Queen in a way - you can dislike what they do, but to say they were "shit musicians" is a mile off base.
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Re: Vinnie Vincent solo in LOVE GUN

Post by drmoorejr »

UltraCynic wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:52 am
LordThurisaz wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 12:58 pm
UltraCynic wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 12:44 pm
tazchris wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 3:21 pm If you're wired on speed Vinnie's take on Ace's solo's are brilliant.
Or have an appreciation of musical artistry…
Oh yeah, you either love Vinnie's note diarrhea, or you have zero appreciation for "musical artistry" -- nevermind that his solos tend to be very much in the "wow, that was incredibly unmusical" camp. Gary Moore could play circles around Vinnie.
To YOU it may well be “note diarrhoea”, but isn’t it funny how Vinnie’s solos - with KISS at least - adhere to a consistent structure? Perhaps you haven’t noticed. Go to any COTN tour footage and listen to ‘Love Gun’ or ‘Calling Dr. Love’, the lead breaks from show to awesome show are the same, rather than the random snarled tangle of notes and runs* you suggest.

Who doesn’t love Ace’s rehashing and rearranging of old blues licks? No one does it better: as Tommy has found out. Vinnie, though, brought something entirely different, eloquent and articulate to KISS’ lead breaks while he was there. I like Gary Moore, AND I like Vinnie, and a whole host of guitarists. Odd that you see music as a zero sum game.

* See what I did there?
Well said.
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Re: Vinnie Vincent solo in LOVE GUN

Post by LordThurisaz »

UltraCynic wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:26 am
LordThurisaz wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 4:07 pm
UltraCynic wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:51 pm I’m biased. Early Yes was always too self-indulgent and impenetrable for me, and then Trevor Rabin - whom I’d followed as a solo artist - arrived and provided a way in to the material. ‘90125’ and ‘Big Generator’ are really good starting points and then you can do a Tenet Temporal Pincer Manoeuvre and work backward and forward through their catalogue once you’ve got the gist of what they’re trying to achieve musically.

Thank you for reminding me about Paul Gilbert. I’m going to listen to some Racer X. Nice one.
No problem.

Thanks, I'll check it out. Also, I wasn't comparing Vinnie to Ace or similar guitarists. I was and typically have compared him to his peers (shredders, other guitarist songwriters).
I remember asking a guitarist - classically trained, and probably the most accomplished musician I’ve ever played with - if Vinnie, from a purely musical standpoint, was any good. We listened to the first VVI album, and after he had retrieved his dropped jaw, his response was; “If he knows what he’s doing, he’s a genius.”

Well, it always struck me that Vinnie knew exactly what he was doing, and this validation from a master craftsman made me further appreciate what Vinnie brought to the party.

Vinnie’s choices and tone might be jarring, but I really love the shapes and patterns he conjures and teases.
I asked a friend whom I think is very spectacular on the guitar, and his response was much the opposite. He thought his picking wasn't very clean in some spots, and that it lacked much of anything besides note cramming. I've also read about people discussing how producers cringe when you mix thirds (and some other intervals) over each other and end up with awful dissonance. Mixing say a chord with a major third with a lead note that is a minor third is not particularly pleasant or good to listen to.
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Re: Vinnie Vincent solo in LOVE GUN

Post by lespaul »

My guitar buddys thought he was awful when they listened to his solos , none of them was impressed , same with mark st. john .

you know, there`s a reason that vinnie ain`t in any of the best guitarist / best solos of all time ratings and/or polls .
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Re: Vinnie Vincent solo in LOVE GUN

Post by UltraCynic »

LordThurisaz wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 8:36 am
UltraCynic wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:26 am
LordThurisaz wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 4:07 pm
UltraCynic wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:51 pm I’m biased. Early Yes was always too self-indulgent and impenetrable for me, and then Trevor Rabin - whom I’d followed as a solo artist - arrived and provided a way in to the material. ‘90125’ and ‘Big Generator’ are really good starting points and then you can do a Tenet Temporal Pincer Manoeuvre and work backward and forward through their catalogue once you’ve got the gist of what they’re trying to achieve musically.

Thank you for reminding me about Paul Gilbert. I’m going to listen to some Racer X. Nice one.
No problem.

Thanks, I'll check it out. Also, I wasn't comparing Vinnie to Ace or similar guitarists. I was and typically have compared him to his peers (shredders, other guitarist songwriters).
I remember asking a guitarist - classically trained, and probably the most accomplished musician I’ve ever played with - if Vinnie, from a purely musical standpoint, was any good. We listened to the first VVI album, and after he had retrieved his dropped jaw, his response was; “If he knows what he’s doing, he’s a genius.”

Well, it always struck me that Vinnie knew exactly what he was doing, and this validation from a master craftsman made me further appreciate what Vinnie brought to the party.

Vinnie’s choices and tone might be jarring, but I really love the shapes and patterns he conjures and teases.
I asked a friend whom I think is very spectacular on the guitar, and his response was much the opposite. He thought his picking wasn't very clean in some spots, and that it lacked much of anything besides note cramming. I've also read about people discussing how producers cringe when you mix thirds (and some other intervals) over each other and end up with awful dissonance. Mixing say a chord with a major third with a lead note that is a minor third is not particularly pleasant or good to listen to.
Excellent analysis! I’ll have to listen to your friend’s albums at some point.
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Re: Vinnie Vincent solo in LOVE GUN

Post by Mad Dog »

Terrible, just terrible. Mark St. John saved KISS.
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Re: Vinnie Vincent solo in LOVE GUN

Post by ohiostate98 »

I’ve played guitar for 37 years and I’m not a big fan of VV, but that was pretty cool. It was clean, it was different. My two biggest influences are Ace and Randy Rhoads. Kind of neat hearing a conflation of the two.
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Re: Vinnie Vincent solo in LOVE GUN

Post by Doose »

Mad Dog wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:20 pm Terrible, just terrible. Mark St. John saved KISS.
I think Mark was a much, much better fit than Vinnie. It's a shame Paul sold him down the river.
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Re: Vinnie Vincent solo in LOVE GUN

Post by drmoorejr »

LordThurisaz wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 8:36 am
... producers cringe when you mix thirds (and some other intervals) over each other and end up with awful dissonance. Mixing say a chord with a major third with a lead note that is a minor third is not particularly pleasant or good to listen to.
Tell that to a Jazz musician. Its not always bad to change a third from a minor to a major. Modal changes happen mostly in chord progressions (look at the Tesla song "Love Song" I believe there is a change from A major (A, C# & E) to A Minor (A, C, E). Now Switching from a 6th to a sharp 6th is more common especially in songs that use dorian mode for soloing over a song thats mostly aeolian (think of Santana and the song "Oye Como Ya") than to 3rd to sharp 3rd. But it can happen. Music is boring or can be boring (in my opinion) if its too "cookie cutter" like. Most modern day pop songs are like that (very predictable).

In Beebop jazz era of the 1940's Jazz music had a lot of improvised soloing with chromatic notes.
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Re: Vinnie Vincent solo in LOVE GUN

Post by lespaul »

drmoorejr wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:35 pm
LordThurisaz wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 8:36 am
... producers cringe when you mix thirds (and some other intervals) over each other and end up with awful dissonance. Mixing say a chord with a major third with a lead note that is a minor third is not particularly pleasant or good to listen to.
Tell that to a Jazz musician. Its not always bad to change a third from a minor to a major. Modal changes happen mostly in chord progressions (look at the Tesla song "Love Song" I believe there is a change from A major (A, C# & E) to A Minor (A, C, E). Now Switching from a 6th to a sharp 6th is more common especially in songs that use dorian mode for soloing over a song thats mostly aeolian (think of Santana and the song "Oye Como Ya") than to 3rd to sharp 3rd. But it can happen. Music is boring or can be boring (in my opinion) if its too "cookie cutter" like. Most modern day pop songs are like that (very predictable).

In Beebop jazz era of the 1940's Jazz music had a lot of improvised soloing with chromatic notes.
True .
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Re: Vinnie Vincent solo in LOVE GUN

Post by LordThurisaz »

drmoorejr wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:35 pm
LordThurisaz wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 8:36 am
... producers cringe when you mix thirds (and some other intervals) over each other and end up with awful dissonance. Mixing say a chord with a major third with a lead note that is a minor third is not particularly pleasant or good to listen to.
Tell that to a Jazz musician. Its not always bad to change a third from a minor to a major. Modal changes happen mostly in chord progressions (look at the Tesla song "Love Song" I believe there is a change from A major (A, C# & E) to A Minor (A, C, E). Now Switching from a 6th to a sharp 6th is more common especially in songs that use dorian mode for soloing over a song thats mostly aeolian (think of Santana and the song "Oye Como Ya") than to 3rd to sharp 3rd. But it can happen. Music is boring or can be boring (in my opinion) if its too "cookie cutter" like. Most modern day pop songs are like that (very predictable).

In Beebop jazz era of the 1940's Jazz music had a lot of improvised soloing with chromatic notes.
A minor third over a major third is dissonant, and doesn't sound good. We aren't talking about a Picardy third.
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Re: Vinnie Vincent solo in LOVE GUN

Post by drmoorejr »

LordThurisaz wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:24 pm
drmoorejr wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:35 pm
LordThurisaz wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 8:36 am
... producers cringe when you mix thirds (and some other intervals) over each other and end up with awful dissonance. Mixing say a chord with a major third with a lead note that is a minor third is not particularly pleasant or good to listen to.
Tell that to a Jazz musician. Its not always bad to change a third from a minor to a major. Modal changes happen mostly in chord progressions (look at the Tesla song "Love Song" I believe there is a change from A major (A, C# & E) to A Minor (A, C, E). Now Switching from a 6th to a sharp 6th is more common especially in songs that use dorian mode for soloing over a song thats mostly aeolian (think of Santana and the song "Oye Como Ya") than to 3rd to sharp 3rd. But it can happen. Music is boring or can be boring (in my opinion) if its too "cookie cutter" like. Most modern day pop songs are like that (very predictable).

In Beebop jazz era of the 1940's Jazz music had a lot of improvised soloing with chromatic notes.
A minor third over a major third is dissonant, and doesn't sound good. We aren't talking about a Picardy third.

I thought we were talking about soloing. Most soloing involve single notes (even if arpeggiated chords), but if you are referring to a chord that includes a major AND minor 3rd, well then thats not a chord. Please clarify.

dissonant sounds are not in reference to melodic note arrangements.
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Re: Vinnie Vincent solo in LOVE GUN

Post by LordThurisaz »

drmoorejr wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:42 pm I thought we were talking about soloing. Most soloing involve single notes (even if arpeggiated chords), but if you are referring to a chord that includes a major AND minor 3rd, well then thats not a chord. Please clarify.

dissonant sounds are not in reference to melodic note arrangements.
"Mixing say a chord with a major third with a lead note that is a minor third is not particularly pleasant or good to listen to."

I'm well aware you can play anything over a neutral chord, wherein it does not specify whether it is major or minor. I've spent probably twenty years listening to Marty Friedman. If Marty is playing over a root fifth power chord, he will flirt with exotic tonalities by using Hirajoshi, Hungarian minor, etc., which is different than endless streams of cacophonous, dissonant noise.
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Re: Vinnie Vincent solo in LOVE GUN

Post by drmoorejr »

LordThurisaz wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:27 pm
drmoorejr wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:42 pm I thought we were talking about soloing. Most soloing involve single notes (even if arpeggiated chords), but if you are referring to a chord that includes a major AND minor 3rd, well then thats not a chord. Please clarify.

dissonant sounds are not in reference to melodic note arrangements.
"Mixing say a chord with a major third with a lead note that is a minor third is not particularly pleasant or good to listen to."

I'm well aware you can play anything over a neutral chord, wherein it does not specify whether it is major or minor. I've spent probably twenty years listening to Marty Friedman. If Marty is playing over a root fifth power chord, he will flirt with exotic tonalities by using Hirajoshi, Hungarian minor, etc., which is different than endless streams of cacophonous, dissonant noise.
it's highly likely that a song like Love Gun is played in the key of G (which includes the E minor chord, but mostly played as a power chord (1st and 5th). IF say a rhythm guitarist accidentally plays a E major (instead of a E5) you would get a dissonant sound when a lead guitarist plays the minor 3rd. We all have seen Paul play, he is busy prancing around the stage like horny 17 year old slut in front of bunch of boys, its very likely that he messed up. or since this is the site that likes to bash Vinnie maybe Vinnie simply played the solo wrong. I doubt it though, because the chord progression the song is played in is pretty much the same thought the years, with only the guitar tuning changing from a Eb to a E (standard e tuning).

https://www.musicnotes.com/sheetmusic/m ... =MN0117272
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Re: Vinnie Vincent solo in LOVE GUN

Post by LordThurisaz »

drmoorejr wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:40 pm it's highly likely that a song like Love Gun is played in the key of G (which includes the E minor chord, but mostly played as a power chord (1st and 5th). IF say a rhythm guitarist accidentally plays a E major (instead of a E5) you would get a dissonant sound when a lead guitarist plays the minor 3rd. We all have seen Paul play, he is busy prancing around the stage like horny 17 year old slut in front of bunch of boys, its very likely that he messed up. or since this is the site that likes to bash Vinnie maybe Vinnie simply played the solo wrong. I doubt it though, because the chord progression the song is played in is pretty much the same thought the years, with only the guitar tuning changing from a Eb to a E (standard e tuning).

https://www.musicnotes.com/sheetmusic/m ... =MN0117272
I know. Have I stated anything to the contrary?