Kiss sold 22M albums in the US by January 1st 1980 ?

[EasyCatMan]

JKiss made this statement in an A&E thread which is now locked:

Let's not forget by January 1st, 1980... KISS had sold 22-million 'albums' in the USA alone (& not counting singles, nor worldwide record sales). And last time I checked, that's kicking some serious ass & in just shy of six short years.


Is that statement accurate? If so, where did it come from?

And if true, then KISS would have sold around 26M albums or so in that time period because they wouldn't be counting "Alive", "Alive II" and "Double Platinum" twice.

So 26M in 6 years time, that is very impressive.

I think Wikipedia says the RIAA only gives KISS credit for 25M albums (as of now). Imagine what 40 more years of actual sales does to that 26M figure.

[Thayerscomet]

The kiss catalog has never been re certified by the R.I.A.A. so there numbers do not matter and they did not start multiplying by number of disks in the package until 1992.KISS sold a ton of records in the 1970s.I lived through it they were everywhere and were huge dont let people who were not around then try to tell you differently.

[Admin]

Yes, it is accurate. Though shipped… I have a nice spreadsheet tracking their cumulative sales, 6/75, 12/77, 6/79…

[EasyCatMan]

Yes, it is accurate. Though shipped… I have a nice spreadsheet tracking their cumulative sales, 6/75, 12/77, 6/79…

Thank you. It certainly makes sense why they got such a great record deal in 1980 with sales like that.

So what do you think they have done in the US?

If you counted the double albums then maybe 26M during that time.

Soundscan 1991-2007 says 11M (but they don't count double albums or multi-sets (like the box set) so maybe 12 1/2M during that time ?

That's already 38-39M and there's no sales figures from the 1980's.

How many copies did alot of KISS fans get in the 80's? I had to go get all their albums on cassette (several multiple times because the tape would get "eaten" or "twisted"). Then had to buy it all over again on CD.

And so many other people didn't even discover KISS until MTV and it got in their area. Alot didn't even jump on board till Animalize, Asylum or so. I wonder how many of those new fans went and bought everything or just went and got "Alive", "Alive II", "Double Platinum" or "Destroyer" and called it good.

[EasyCatMan]

The kiss catalog has never been re certified by the R.I.A.A. so there numbers do not matter and they did not start multiplying by number of disks in the package until 1992.KISS sold a ton of records in the 1970s.I lived through it they were everywhere and were huge dont let people who were not around then try to tell you differently.

Yep was huge for sure. Someone the other day was trying to say there's no way "Dynasty" could multi-platinum like Gene said on A&E because its not listed that way at the RIAA.

And Destroyer finally limped past double platinum in 2011 and how that is their best selling studio album.

I would love to know why they finally got it certified for 2X in 2011. The label(s) must had lost millions of old sales data because it only being 2X makes no sense at all. One year later (2012) soundscan figures came out and Destroyer had done 726,000.

[I_Gotta_Getaway]

I have always thought KISS' 70's album sales were underestimated. KISS were the first act signed to a new label. Casablanca was in massive debt until Alive! turned it around. If album sales were low-balled, Casablanca would have to pay the band LESS - ie. the label would make more money!

[alanrosembung]

I would love to know why they finally got it certified for 2X in 2011. The label(s) must had lost millions of old sales data because it only being 2X makes no sense at all. One year later (2012) soundscan figures came out and Destroyer had done 726,000.

Makes perfect sense. It sold over a million in the 70s. And kept selling slowly but surely in the 80s and beyond

Soundscan only started in 1991.

So take all the old sales prior to 91 and add the Soundscan and they finally reached two million.

And they got a double platinum certification for Destroyer. Congrats! That’s an achievement.

Nothing wrong with that at all, it should be lauded.

The only problem is that that the band, and their hardcore fans, try to suggest that they’ve sold 2.5 as many albums as they’ve actually sold and there’s some big conspiracy theory against them because all the RIAA stats and all the Soundcan stats are mysteriously corrupt.

Which they ain’t.

[highvoltage1969]

I doubt KISS sold 22 million albums in the US between 1974-1980. They may have shipped 22 million.

[highvoltage1969]

Yes, it is accurate. Though shipped… I have a nice spreadsheet tracking their cumulative sales, 6/75, 12/77, 6/79…

Thank you. It certainly makes sense why they got such a great record deal in 1980 with sales like that.

So what do you think they have done in the US?

If you counted the double albums then maybe 26M during that time.

Soundscan 1991-2007 says 11M (but they don't count double albums or multi-sets (like the box set) so maybe 12 1/2M during that time ?

That's already 38-39M and there's no sales figures from the 1980's.

How many copies did alot of KISS fans get in the 80's? I had to go get all their albums on cassette (several multiple times because the tape would get "eaten" or "twisted"). Then had to buy it all over again on CD.

And so many other people didn't even discover KISS until MTV and it got in their area. Alot didn't even jump on board till Animalize, Asylum or so. I wonder how many of those new fans went and bought everything or just went and got "Alive", "Alive II", "Double Platinum" or "Destroyer" and called it good.

That's albums shipped, not sold.

[EasyCatMan]

That's albums shipped, not sold.

That's what the RIAA uses. Also, the poster said numbers for 6/79. Was that the first of the month or later?

Dynasty wasn't some "shipping abuse"

-

image.png (14.87 KiB) Viewed 520 times

So Dynasty could have easily shipped 500K to 1.5M copies or more after the numbers on the spreadsheet.

So lets recap 26M (with double albums) till June 1979

They could have easily shipped another 1M by the end of the year of Dynasty & that's not even other albums they would be servicing.

So they could have easily been up to 28M by the end of the year.

You want to complain about the shipping abuses, we know those numbers. The label schlocked 1.4M of their records.

So go ahead and take 1.4M off the 28M figure. So KISS had legitimately done 26.6M in 6 years.

[Tallbear13]

I wonder how much it cost to get it done i'm guessing its not cheap or gene and paul would have done by now

[highvoltage1969]

That's albums shipped, not sold.

That's what the RIAA uses. Also, the poster said numbers for 6/79. Was that the first of the month or later?

Dynasty wasn't some "shipping abuse"

-
image.png


So Dynasty could have easily shipped 500K to 1.5M copies or more after the numbers on the spreadsheet.

So lets recap 26M (with double albums) till June 1979

They could have easily shipped another 1M by the end of the year of Dynasty & that's not even other albums they would be servicing.

So they could have easily been up to 28M by the end of the year.

You want to complain about the shipping abuses, we know those numbers. The label schlocked 1.4M of their records.

So go ahead and take 1.4M off the 28M figure. So KISS had legitimately done 26.6M in 6 years.

You're right RIAA used to used to certify based on shipping which seems kind of ridiculous as does counting double albums as two units.

26.6 million still seems high though.

[highvoltage1969]

I wonder how much it cost to get it done i'm guessing its not cheap or gene and paul would have done by now

Not that much I imagine, it's just admin.

I don't think they care as much as we do.

[missingdiver]

I believe it. As a kid,l in the late 70’s... every teenager on my block each had at least 2 kiss albums. I mean EVERY one of them. Now multiply that out across America.

But it really ground to a stop by mid 1980 I bet as far as sales. Although i’m sure the back catalog sold well in the 80’s with cds and cassette tapes still being popular.

[LoveGun77]

The kiss catalog has never been re certified by the R.I.A.A. so there numbers do not matter and they did not start multiplying by number of disks in the package until 1992.KISS sold a ton of records in the 1970s.I lived through it they were everywhere and were huge dont let people who were not around then try to tell you differently.

A ton of records? The first three didn't do much,right off the bat. Alive,Destroyer and Dynasty did well. RNRO,LG did good. Compared to the real big boys like Bee Gees,Fleetwood Mac and Eagles...not so much.

The had a ton of hype and pub for sure. When it came down to REAL concert numbers and record sales,it was not that impressive. Not trying to be downer because i love the original band and the original albums. But a lot of it is BS

[Pat]

If you ask Gene, they sold 100 billion by 1/1/80.

[KrazySwede]

We've been through this a few times. KISS says (counting the entirety of their discography) a 100 million sold, a recent wiki-link claimed 75 million sold and I'd say a total of 40 million sold.

Big sellers of the 70s / Destroyer, Alive, Love Gun, Dynasty (very likely at several times platinum each) - sales outside the US at the most a quarter of that number. 70s KISS was a US phenomenon with a growing (but not comparable) fanbase outside of that region.

20 million records sold in the US of their 70s catalogue, I'd say is believable - counting singles as well although that's hardly an impressive number coming from those (they had like two top 20 hits or so in the 70s)

[sugardaddy]

Kiss has sold 100 million records worldwide.

[alanrosembung]

Kiss has sold 100 million records worldwide.

Source?

Gene and Paul saying it and people repeating it because they said it doesn’t count.

They were citing 40 million in 1996. It’s it’s now 100 then that’s a shitload of product to move decades past their heyday, and in the era of downloads etc.

If they’re so popular (100 mill is Eagles and Fleetwood Mac territory) then why did Revenge and Psycho Circus only go Gold? Be fascinated to know.

[alanrosembung]

KISS have sold as many as all these acts, have they?

[Legsofsteel]

Wikipedia is not a credible source.

For KISS, I would say worldwide, between 40 and 50 million.

Are they the biggest selling band or artist of all time? Absolutely not. But they have sold a decent amount and lasted until this long, which is pretty impressive imo. And they can still headline festivals and play arenas.

[EasyCatMan]

That's albums shipped, not sold.

That's what the RIAA uses. Also, the poster said numbers for 6/79. Was that the first of the month or later?

Dynasty wasn't some "shipping abuse"

-
image.png


So Dynasty could have easily shipped 500K to 1.5M copies or more after the numbers on the spreadsheet.

So lets recap 26M (with double albums) till June 1979

They could have easily shipped another 1M by the end of the year of Dynasty & that's not even other albums they would be servicing.

So they could have easily been up to 28M by the end of the year.

You want to complain about the shipping abuses, we know those numbers. The label schlocked 1.4M of their records.

So go ahead and take 1.4M off the 28M figure. So KISS had legitimately done 26.6M in 6 years.

You're right RIAA used to used to certify based on shipping which seems kind of ridiculous as does counting double albums as two units.

26.6 million still seems high though.

I don't know why counting multiple packages doesn't make sense. When most double albums cost almost double the price.

We aren'' talking Garth Brooks here, who is the 'king' of exploiting it. I don't know how many multi-disc sets he put out for low cost. He did it for one reason. He'd do Target or Walmart deals. Put out 5 cds for $20 (around Christmas). All of a sudden he's got 5M more at the RIAA (rehashing mostly old stuff).


And I don't see how 26.6M would seem high for the 70's

Kiss
Hotter Than Hell
Dressed To Kill
Alive
Originals
Destroyer
Rock and Roll Over
Love Gun
Originals II
Alive II
Double Platinum
Ace Frehley
Gene Simmons
Peter Crrss
Paul Stanley
Dynasty


16 releases (Alive, Alive II, Double Platinum, Originals, Originals II) all multi-sets


Really 26.6M seems pretty light to me.

It would be interesting to know how many they pressed/sold of ORIGINALS & ORIGINALS 2.

If they only pressed 250,000 of each - .5M X 3 That's 1.5M recorders
That would be another million not being counted. Because they would only count 500,000 of them.

Maybe someone has some good sales figures on the Originals

So now that's up to 27.6M

[EasyCatMan]

They were citing 40 million in 1996. It’s it’s now 100 then that’s a shitload of product to move decades past their heyday, and in the era of downloads etc

40M in the states would have been nothing.

As has been shown, they would have been over 27M (even with the schlocking returns) in the 70's.

We know they've done 1991-2007 12-13M (soundscan - when counting multi-releases).

So right there, KISS is already at 40M in the US.

That doesn't include any sales in the 1980's or past 2007.

Kiss should easily be 55M or higher in the US alone.

[EasyCatMan]

For KISS, I would say worldwide, between 40 and 50 million.

I think its clear KISS is at least 55M in the US alone (album sales only). How much WW, who knows?

[Going Blind]

55 mil total is great, but when Supertramp or Fleetwood Mac do 20 million with one record it really puts things in perspective. Kiss aren't really the big boys are they? More like 12 year olds lol.

[highvoltage1969]

That's albums shipped, not sold.

That's what the RIAA uses. Also, the poster said numbers for 6/79. Was that the first of the month or later?

Dynasty wasn't some "shipping abuse"

-
image.png


So Dynasty could have easily shipped 500K to 1.5M copies or more after the numbers on the spreadsheet.

So lets recap 26M (with double albums) till June 1979

They could have easily shipped another 1M by the end of the year of Dynasty & that's not even other albums they would be servicing.

So they could have easily been up to 28M by the end of the year.

You want to complain about the shipping abuses, we know those numbers. The label schlocked 1.4M of their records.

So go ahead and take 1.4M off the 28M figure. So KISS had legitimately done 26.6M in 6 years.

You're right RIAA used to used to certify based on shipping which seems kind of ridiculous as does counting double albums as two units.

26.6 million still seems high though.

I don't know why counting multiple packages doesn't make sense. When most double albums cost almost double the price.

We aren'' talking Garth Brooks here, who is the 'king' of exploiting it. I don't know how many multi-disc sets he put out for low cost. He did it for one reason. He'd do Target or Walmart deals. Put out 5 cds for $20 (around Christmas). All of a sudden he's got 5M more at the RIAA (rehashing mostly old stuff).


And I don't see how 26.6M would seem high for the 70's

Kiss
Hotter Than Hell
Dressed To Kill
Alive
Originals
Destroyer
Rock and Roll Over
Love Gun
Originals II
Alive II
Double Platinum
Ace Frehley
Gene Simmons
Peter Crrss
Paul Stanley
Dynasty


16 releases (Alive, Alive II, Double Platinum, Originals, Originals II) all multi-sets


Really 26.6M seems pretty light to me.

It would be interesting to know how many they pressed/sold of ORIGINALS & ORIGINALS 2.

If they only pressed 250,000 of each - .5M X 3 That's 1.5M recorders
That would be another million not being counted. Because they would only count 500,000 of them.

Maybe someone has some good sales figures on the Originals

So now that's up to 27.6M

Unless I've misunderstood, counting a double album as two sales doesn't make sense because it only accounts for one purchase.

Maybe you're right about the figures, I can't see it myself but I have no inside information to prove conclusively one way or another.

[highvoltage1969]

For KISS, I would say worldwide, between 40 and 50 million.

I think its clear KISS is at least 55M in the US alone (album sales only). How much WW, who knows?

It's not clear is it really, just a bunch of us speculating.

[Going Blind]

That's what the RIAA uses. Also, the poster said numbers for 6/79. Was that the first of the month or later?

Dynasty wasn't some "shipping abuse"

-
image.png


So Dynasty could have easily shipped 500K to 1.5M copies or more after the numbers on the spreadsheet.

So lets recap 26M (with double albums) till June 1979

They could have easily shipped another 1M by the end of the year of Dynasty & that's not even other albums they would be servicing.

So they could have easily been up to 28M by the end of the year.

You want to complain about the shipping abuses, we know those numbers. The label schlocked 1.4M of their records.

So go ahead and take 1.4M off the 28M figure. So KISS had legitimately done 26.6M in 6 years.

You're right RIAA used to used to certify based on shipping which seems kind of ridiculous as does counting double albums as two units.

26.6 million still seems high though.

I don't know why counting multiple packages doesn't make sense. When most double albums cost almost double the price.

We aren'' talking Garth Brooks here, who is the 'king' of exploiting it. I don't know how many multi-disc sets he put out for low cost. He did it for one reason. He'd do Target or Walmart deals. Put out 5 cds for $20 (around Christmas). All of a sudden he's got 5M more at the RIAA (rehashing mostly old stuff).


And I don't see how 26.6M would seem high for the 70's

Kiss
Hotter Than Hell
Dressed To Kill
Alive
Originals
Destroyer
Rock and Roll Over
Love Gun
Originals II
Alive II
Double Platinum
Ace Frehley
Gene Simmons
Peter Crrss
Paul Stanley
Dynasty


16 releases (Alive, Alive II, Double Platinum, Originals, Originals II) all multi-sets


Really 26.6M seems pretty light to me.

It would be interesting to know how many they pressed/sold of ORIGINALS & ORIGINALS 2.

If they only pressed 250,000 of each - .5M X 3 That's 1.5M recorders
That would be another million not being counted. Because they would only count 500,000 of them.

Maybe someone has some good sales figures on the Originals

So now that's up to 27.6M

Unless I've misunderstood, counting a double album as two sales doesn't make sense because it only accounts for one purchase.

Maybe you're right about the figures, I can't see it myself but I have no inside information to prove conclusively one way or another.

As far as I remember double albums were never double the price, more like a little less than one and half albums. My memory is shot but that is how I seemed to remember it. Even today a new single album on vinyl could be 34 bucks and a double album (one album on two discs could be 24).

[EasyCatMan]

55 mil total is great, but when Supertramp or Fleetwood Mac do 20 million with one record it really puts things in perspective. Kiss aren't really the big boys are they? More like 12 year olds lol.

What record has Supertramp done in America that's 20M? Breakfast in America 4X platinum but it seems most of their stuff is gold in the US.

Fleetwood from 1968 to 1974 had 2 gold and one Platinum. Now look what KISS did in 6 years. Blows that away.

And Fleetwood had a ton of female (esp) and male fans. Kiss for the longest time was mostly male fans.

And KISS might have had some better selling albums if they keep promoting them and stayed on tour. But in the 70's it was always another album coming out within 6 months.

[highvoltage1969]

You're right RIAA used to used to certify based on shipping which seems kind of ridiculous as does counting double albums as two units.

26.6 million still seems high though.

I don't know why counting multiple packages doesn't make sense. When most double albums cost almost double the price.

We aren'' talking Garth Brooks here, who is the 'king' of exploiting it. I don't know how many multi-disc sets he put out for low cost. He did it for one reason. He'd do Target or Walmart deals. Put out 5 cds for $20 (around Christmas). All of a sudden he's got 5M more at the RIAA (rehashing mostly old stuff).


And I don't see how 26.6M would seem high for the 70's

Kiss
Hotter Than Hell
Dressed To Kill
Alive
Originals
Destroyer
Rock and Roll Over
Love Gun
Originals II
Alive II
Double Platinum
Ace Frehley
Gene Simmons
Peter Crrss
Paul Stanley
Dynasty


16 releases (Alive, Alive II, Double Platinum, Originals, Originals II) all multi-sets


Really 26.6M seems pretty light to me.

It would be interesting to know how many they pressed/sold of ORIGINALS & ORIGINALS 2.

If they only pressed 250,000 of each - .5M X 3 That's 1.5M recorders
That would be another million not being counted. Because they would only count 500,000 of them.

Maybe someone has some good sales figures on the Originals

So now that's up to 27.6M

Unless I've misunderstood, counting a double album as two sales doesn't make sense because it only accounts for one purchase.

Maybe you're right about the figures, I can't see it myself but I have no inside information to prove conclusively one way or another.

As far as I remember double albums were never double the price, more like a little less than one and half albums. My memory is shot but that is how I seemed to remember it. Even today a new single album on vinyl could be 34 bucks and a double album (one album on two discs could be 24).

Agreed.

[Going Blind]

55 mil total is great, but when Supertramp or Fleetwood Mac do 20 million with one record it really puts things in perspective. Kiss aren't really the big boys are they? More like 12 year olds lol.

What record has Supertramp done in America that's 20M? Breakfast in America 4X platinum but it seems most of their stuff is gold in the US.

Fleetwood from 1968 to 1974 had 2 gold and one Platinum. Now look what KISS did in 6 years. Blows that away.

And Fleetwood had a ton of female (esp) and male fans. Kiss for the longest time was mostly male fans.

And KISS might have had some better selling albums if they keep promoting them and stayed on tour. But in the 70's it was always another album coming out within 6 months.

Mia Culpa, I forgot we are just talking US sales here... Been into Supertramp this weekend and somewhere in my research that 20 million number was bandied about for BIA somewhere...

[highvoltage1969]

55 mil total is great, but when Supertramp or Fleetwood Mac do 20 million with one record it really puts things in perspective. Kiss aren't really the big boys are they? More like 12 year olds lol.

What record has Supertramp done in America that's 20M? Breakfast in America 4X platinum but it seems most of their stuff is gold in the US.

Fleetwood from 1968 to 1974 had 2 gold and one Platinum. Now look what KISS did in 6 years. Blows that away.

And Fleetwood had a ton of female (esp) and male fans. Kiss for the longest time was mostly male fans.

And KISS might have had some better selling albums if they keep promoting them and stayed on tour. But in the 70's it was always another album coming out within 6 months.

To be fair, Rumours worldwide sales outsold the entire 1970s KISS catalogue based on your 26m estimate.

[Admin]

I come up with 38,879,896

So, 40m seems decent lowball figure to use overall for USA.

[highvoltage1969]

I come up with 38,879,896

So, 40m seems decent lowball figure to use overall for USA.

Is that figure for their 1970ies output to date or just for the decade?

[jkiss]

I doubt KISS sold 22 million albums in the US between 1974-1980. They may have shipped 22 million.

I never saw any major or mass KISS liquidation (related to their music LPs, 8-tracks, etc.) past 1979. Mostly everything that was returned (from the over shipments) was liquidated (@ a significant discount or priced to sell) & was typically snapped-up very rapidly (& usually by 'KISS kids' from my own observations). And of most of what I witnessed at liquidation centers/locations was the KISS Solo Albums; of which I recall was mostly liquidated before the release of "DYNASTY".

And with anything that was liquidated (from "LOVE GUN" through to the KISS Solo Albums) KISS did not get paid for. And hence their lawsuit with Polygram. Neil over shipped or to say too much product, too quickly or over flooding stores with KISS music. When anything wound-up in liquidation ...it made KISS look like they had flopped or to say created a false perception they had (& why KISS was also seeking damages).

Anyway, easy for me to stand by this 22-million 'albums sold' in USA by 1980. These KISS albums that were over shipped (& returned) still got into the hands of American fans or the curious. And I know this because I saw for myself what was going-on & in multiple states.

[highvoltage1969]

I doubt KISS sold 22 million albums in the US between 1974-1980. They may have shipped 22 million.

I never saw any major or mass KISS liquidation (related to their music LPs, 8-tracks, etc.) past 1979. Mostly everything that was returned (from the over shipments) was liquidated (@ a significant discount or priced to sell) & was typically snapped-up very rapidly (& usually by 'KISS kids' from my own observations). And of most of what I witnessed at liquidation centers/locations was the KISS Solo Albums; of which I recall was mostly liquidated before the release of "DYNASTY".

And with anything that was liquidated (from "LOVE GUN" through to the KISS Solo Albums) KISS did not get paid for. And hence their lawsuit with Polygram. Neil over shipped or to say too much product, too quickly or over flooding stores with KISS music. When anything wound-up in liquidation ...it made KISS look like they had flopped or to say created a false perception they had (& why KISS was also seeking damages).

Anyway, easy for me to stand by this 22-million 'albums sold' in USA by 1980. These KISS albums that were over shipped (& returned) still got into the hands of American fans or the curious. And I know this because I saw for myself what was going-on & in multiple states.

I'm sure you're right, some must have, the UK got lots of clipped solo albums and by some accounts (Chris Lendt, I think) a shed load were sold as ballast which gives you an idea of how many were being returned.

[jkiss]

I doubt KISS sold 22 million albums in the US between 1974-1980. They may have shipped 22 million.

I never saw any major or mass KISS liquidation (related to their music LPs, 8-tracks, etc.) past 1979. Mostly everything that was returned (from the over shipments) was liquidated (@ a significant discount or priced to sell) & was typically snapped-up very rapidly (& usually by 'KISS kids' from my own observations). And of most of what I witnessed at liquidation centers/locations was the KISS Solo Albums; of which I recall was mostly liquidated before the release of "DYNASTY".

And with anything that was liquidated (from "LOVE GUN" through to the KISS Solo Albums) KISS did not get paid for. And hence their lawsuit with Polygram. Neil over shipped or to say too much product, too quickly or over flooding stores with KISS music. When anything wound-up in liquidation ...it made KISS look like they had flopped or to say created a false perception they had (& why KISS was also seeking damages).

Anyway, easy for me to stand by this 22-million 'albums sold' in USA by 1980. These KISS albums that were over shipped (& returned) still got into the hands of American fans or the curious. And I know this because I saw for myself what was going-on & in multiple states.

I'm sure you're right, some must have, the UK got lots of clipped solo albums and by some accounts (Chris Lendt, I think) a shed load were sold as ballast which gives you an idea of how many were being returned.

Simply a desperate attempt by Neil at countering what Polygram executives had done (basically, everyone was looking to make an example out of Neil, including retailers, even before the big four solo releases). If product marked for liquidation could be diverted overseas, both Neil & KISS could still get paid for it. Polygram could not touch anything overseas & as that was purely Neil's territory.

And Neil goes to Bill, "Wouldn't it be a shame if there wasn't enough KISS Solo Albums at Christmas for the children? Perhaps we should press even MORE copies, what do you think, Bill?" Plus of course, Bill completely agrees & gives Neil his total blessing (even as the returns are beginning to come in).

As far as any embellishment of the facts to help whoever it may be to make their point; whether it be Chris Lendt, Larry Harris or even Gene Simmons himself ...I can usually see crystal clear as it being just that.

[ACESTATION]

and by some accounts (Chris Lendt, I think) a shed load were sold as ballast which gives you an idea of how many were being returned.

LOL.

Ballast is material that is used to provide stability to a vehicle or structure. ... A compartment within a boat, ship, submarine, or other floating structure that holds water is called a ballast tank. Water should move in and out from the ballast tank to balance the ship.

ballast design :https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... ection.png

[Glasgow Kiss]

I doubt KISS sold 22 million albums in the US between 1974-1980. They may have shipped 22 million.

I never saw any major or mass KISS liquidation (related to their music LPs, 8-tracks, etc.) past 1979. Mostly everything that was returned (from the over shipments) was liquidated (@ a significant discount or priced to sell) & was typically snapped-up very rapidly (& usually by 'KISS kids' from my own observations). And of most of what I witnessed at liquidation centers/locations was the KISS Solo Albums; of which I recall was mostly liquidated before the release of "DYNASTY".

And with anything that was liquidated (from "LOVE GUN" through to the KISS Solo Albums) KISS did not get paid for. And hence their lawsuit with Polygram. Neil over shipped or to say too much product, too quickly or over flooding stores with KISS music. When anything wound-up in liquidation ...it made KISS look like they had flopped or to say created a false perception they had (& why KISS was also seeking damages).

Anyway, easy for me to stand by this 22-million 'albums sold' in USA by 1980. These KISS albums that were over shipped (& returned) still got into the hands of American fans or the curious. And I know this because I saw for myself what was going-on & in multiple states.

I'm sure you're right, some must have, the UK got lots of clipped solo albums and by some accounts (Chris Lendt, I think) a shed load were sold as ballast which gives you an idea of how many were being returned.

The ballast thing makes sense. I remember saying to someone who worked in a record shop around the time of the market being flooded with dirt-cheap vinyl copies of Out Of Control that it was almost impossible to find one where the cover wasn't trashed...I'd always put it down to being stored carelessly somewhere, but being dumped in the hold of a ship tossing and turning (sorry Peter) would account for it too.

[jkiss]

The ballast thing makes sense. I remember saying to someone who worked in a record shop around the time of the market being flooded with dirt-cheap vinyl copies of Out Of Control that it was almost impossible to find one where the cover wasn't trashed...I'd always put it down to being stored carelessly somewhere, but being dumped in the hold of a ship tossing and turning (sorry Peter) would account for it too.

Perhaps this was part of some kind of scam (say, if true KISS or related albums were being purchased to be used such & to more easily get past customs officers, etc.). All these damaged albums (LPs only of course) made it successfully into the UK (under-the-radar) & marked-up from the dirt cheap price these record smugglers/pirates originally paid Glickman/Marks. And to be enjoyed at still a discounted price by fans; unfortunately, not in good overall condition due to the way they needed to be 'shipped' or I probably should say 'over shipped'.



Also, another suspicious incident that sometime should be reinvestigated (if at all possible) is the theft of KISS Solo Albums shipments in Los Angeles (circa 1978). Who exactly 'ordered' these shipments to be stolen? And hopefully not a situation similar to when Hugo Drax hijacked his own Moonraker because he needed it, despite it being on loan to England.

[Glasgow Kiss]

The ballast thing makes sense. I remember saying to someone who worked in a record shop around the time of the market being flooded with dirt-cheap vinyl copies of Out Of Control that it was almost impossible to find one where the cover wasn't trashed...I'd always put it down to being stored carelessly somewhere, but being dumped in the hold of a ship tossing and turning (sorry Peter) would account for it too.

Perhaps this was part of some kind of scam (say, if true KISS or related albums were being purchased to be used such & to more easily get past customs officers, etc.). All these damaged albums (LPs only of course) made it successfully into the UK (under-the-radar) & marked-up from the dirt cheap price these record smugglers/pirates originally paid Glickman/Marks. And to be enjoyed at still a discounted price by fans; unfortunately, not in good overall condition due to the way they needed to be 'shipped' or I probably should say 'over shipped'.



Also, another suspicious incident that sometime should be reinvestigated (if at all possible) is the theft of KISS Solo Albums shipments in Los Angeles (circa 1978). Who exactly 'ordered' these shipments to be stolen? And hopefully not a situation similar to when Hugo Drax hijacked his own Moonraker because he needed it, despite it being on loan to England.

There seemed to be a lot of shady stuff at that period in time - there was the rumour when ELO's Out of the Blue went massive that Jet commandeered the output facilities of at least one Latin American pressing plant to produce thousands of "unofficial" extra copies which contractually they wouldn't have to pay royalties on. I know the copy that I picked up surprisingly cheaply was definitely Hecho En Mexico!

[sugardaddy]

Kiss has sold 100 million records worldwide.

Source?

Me. That's how many I've bought alone