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Some people here are blaming Gene and Paul for Ace and Peters addictions. Some are also saying that Gene and Paul may have let it continue for their own personal gain.
Sorry, I dont believe that.
Yes, people self medicate everyday in all walks of life for varied reasons. Hell, in my profession and personal life I've seen it at its worst. Some can blame their situation, some cant.
In the case of Ace and Peter, I can't put it on Gene and Paul. If we're to believe their own words both had lifestyles that led them in that direction regardless of anything Paul or Gene did. I can't put it on them. You can? Good for you.
Now tell me again what point I've missed, other than not jumping on the Gene and Paul bashing bandwagon that's so prevalent at the FAQ these days. Fucktard.
Ace & Peter’s addictions did not derail the band. Although that is the narrative Gene & Paul have repeated to the fans for decades. That’s because Gene & Paul don’t want you to know it’s their own fault.
Ya know what derailed the band?
Paul & Gene craving more recognition from Rolling Stone, musical peers & Hollywood. They should have rejected KMTPOTP the second they saw the script. Paul forcing IWMFLY onto Dynasty and turning the fans away in droves. Paul & Gene turning out the turd that is Unmasked. Turning away the rest of the fans with it’s lightweight sound. & finally Gene & Paul 100% tanking the band with the Elder & trusting Ezrin who was totally in the throes of Cocaine addiction at the time.
Gene & Paul - the straight guys (in terms of drugs/alcohol) - blew it with their egos. Make no mistake. That’s what broke Kiss. They couldn’t be satisfied with their success. They had a tried and true formula and they blew it up do to their ego and insecurities.
Shoulda been happy/content with what they had.
I'll disagree with this completely, not just with KISS, but as life advice. Anyone "happy" or "content" with what they have never achieves real success or greatness.
There's a reason Ace is playing car lots and glomming off his girlfriend, and there's a reason Peter complained he lost most of his Reunion fortune by 2001, but Gene and Paul are worth hundreds of millions and still going strong 25 years after the Reunion.
I think Gene and Paul would happily say it's their fault, because in the end, they won.
Does Paul sounds like a man who has “won?”
And wasn’t it proven that Ace bought the house they live in and he put it in his daughter’s name? Enough with the fake BS with him glomming off his gf.
And there’s nothing wrong with being content with what you have. Happiness doesn’t always come from money (more often than not it doesn’t)
The way the world is rigged now with social media everyone is miserable because they feel everyone else has it better.
Some people here are blaming Gene and Paul for Ace and Peters addictions. Some are also saying that Gene and Paul may have let it continue for their own personal gain.
Sorry, I dont believe that.
Yes, people self medicate everyday in all walks of life for varied reasons. Hell, in my profession and personal life I've seen it at its worst. Some can blame their situation, some cant.
In the case of Ace and Peter, I can't put it on Gene and Paul. If we're to believe their own words both had lifestyles that led them in that direction regardless of anything Paul or Gene did. I can't put it on them. You can? Good for you.
Now tell me again what point I've missed, other than not jumping on the Gene and Paul bashing bandwagon that's so prevalent at the FAQ these days. Fucktard.
Ace & Peter’s addictions did not derail the band. Although that is the narrative Gene & Paul have repeated to the fans for decades. That’s because Gene & Paul don’t want you to know it’s their own fault.
Ya know what derailed the band?
Paul & Gene craving more recognition from Rolling Stone, musical peers & Hollywood. They should have rejected KMTPOTP the second they saw the script. Paul forcing IWMFLY onto Dynasty and turning the fans away in droves. Paul & Gene turning out the turd that is Unmasked. Turning away the rest of the fans with it’s lightweight sound. & finally Gene & Paul 100% tanking the band with the Elder & trusting Ezrin who was totally in the throes of Cocaine addiction at the time.
Gene & Paul - the straight guys (in terms of drugs/alcohol) - blew it with their egos. Make no mistake. That’s what broke Kiss. They couldn’t be satisfied with their success. They had a tried and true formula and they blew it up do to their ego and insecurities.
Shoulda been happy/content with what they had.
Thank You.
I mean fuck if Paul came to me and said we are gonna put a disco song on the next album, I might drink myself into a coma too. How could anyone be happy in such a situation if you want to be in a HARD ROCK BAND?
I’m not going to ever blame someone’s addictions on someone else. (Although I can imagine it must be brutal trying to exist in the same band as Paul) But everyone is their own man & has to own up to their own crap.
Some people here are blaming Gene and Paul for Ace and Peters addictions. Some are also saying that Gene and Paul may have let it continue for their own personal gain.
Sorry, I dont believe that.
Yes, people self medicate everyday in all walks of life for varied reasons. Hell, in my profession and personal life I've seen it at its worst. Some can blame their situation, some cant.
In the case of Ace and Peter, I can't put it on Gene and Paul. If we're to believe their own words both had lifestyles that led them in that direction regardless of anything Paul or Gene did. I can't put it on them. You can? Good for you.
Now tell me again what point I've missed, other than not jumping on the Gene and Paul bashing bandwagon that's so prevalent at the FAQ these days. Fucktard.
Ace & Peter’s addictions did not derail the band. Although that is the narrative Gene & Paul have repeated to the fans for decades. That’s because Gene & Paul don’t want you to know it’s their own fault.
Ya know what derailed the band?
Paul & Gene craving more recognition from Rolling Stone, musical peers & Hollywood. They should have rejected KMTPOTP the second they saw the script. Paul forcing IWMFLY onto Dynasty and turning the fans away in droves. Paul & Gene turning out the turd that is Unmasked. Turning away the rest of the fans with it’s lightweight sound. & finally Gene & Paul 100% tanking the band with the Elder & trusting Ezrin who was totally in the throes of Cocaine addiction at the time.
Gene & Paul - the straight guys (in terms of drugs/alcohol) - blew it with their egos. Make no mistake. That’s what broke Kiss. They couldn’t be satisfied with their success. They had a tried and true formula and they blew it up do to their ego and insecurities.
Shoulda been happy/content with what they had.
Thank You.
I mean fuck if Paul came to me and said we are gonna put a disco song on the next album, I might drink myself into a coma too. How could anyone be happy in such a situation if you want to be in a HARD ROCK BAND?
I’m not going to ever blame someone’s addictions on someone else. (Although I can imagine it must be brutal trying to exist in the same band as Paul) But everyone is their own man & has to own up to their own crap.
Sure, but I can appreciate one's reason WHY they are self medicating. Millions of people doing just that because of their job or station in life. I get it even though they should try to find better ways to cope.
I have no doubt that Gene and Paul are hard to work with. That doesn't put Ace and Peters addictions on them. It's also no reason to say that Gene and Paul allowed it to happen. Any self medicating is on Ace and Peter.
I think you are missing the point.
No, I'm not.
Some people here are blaming Gene and Paul for Ace and Peters addictions. Some are also saying that Gene and Paul may have let it continue for their own personal gain.
Sorry, I dont believe that.
Yes, people self medicate everyday in all walks of life for varied reasons. Hell, in my profession and personal life I've seen it at its worst. Some can blame their situation, some cant.
In the case of Ace and Peter, I can't put it on Gene and Paul. If we're to believe their own words both had lifestyles that led them in that direction regardless of anything Paul or Gene did. I can't put it on them. You can? Good for you.
Now tell me again what point I've missed, other than not jumping on the Gene and Paul bashing bandwagon that's so prevalent at the FAQ these days. Fucktard.
Ace & Peter’s addictions did not derail the band. Although that is the narrative Gene & Paul have repeated to the fans for decades. That’s because Gene & Paul don’t want you to know it’s their own fault.
Ya know what derailed the band?
Paul & Gene craving more recognition from Rolling Stone, musical peers & Hollywood. They should have rejected KMTPOTP the second they saw the script. Paul forcing IWMFLY onto Dynasty and turning the fans away in droves. Paul & Gene turning out the turd that is Unmasked. Turning away the rest of the fans with it’s lightweight sound. & finally Gene & Paul 100% tanking the band with the Elder & trusting Ezrin who was totally in the throes of Cocaine addiction at the time.
Gene & Paul - the straight guys (in terms of drugs/alcohol) - blew it with their egos. Make no mistake. That’s what broke Kiss. They couldn’t be satisfied with their success. They had a tried and true formula and they blew it up do to their ego and insecurities.
Shoulda been happy/content with what they had.
This is all bullshit and a lot of crap!
P&G should have rejected KMTPOTP, IWMFLY, The Elder etc.?
In hindsight everybody knows the right direction. Sometimes you have to take risks. Some will succeed and some will fail.
Beth was a huge hit but do you think P&G thought this was the right direction? Probably not. Still the song was on Destroyer and became a hit.
You think IWMFLY turned away a lot of fans? Well, I got news for you.... they gained a lot of New fans as well. Especially in Europe and Australia.
In hindsight you can always be right. But what do you know? You know shit, the same as I do.
It's all about perseverance and hard work.
That's what P&G are capable of. A&P? Not so much.
Last edited by nfarend on Sun Jun 13, 2021 9:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
Di3go wrote: ↑Sat Jun 12, 2021 7:12 pm
Even has some seconds of the long lost I music video, thank god Curt Gooch digitized his U-Matic tape before menacing to burn it if he couldn't get a $5000 buyer when he did the auction.
I remember when he appeared on the 3 Sides podcast and the line he and the guys on the show were giving was 'this is the ONLY copy in existence, if you own it Gene and Paul will have to come to YOU if they ever want to use it'. A few months later, after it had sold and appeared online (courtesy of a few of our fantastic fellow Faqers!), they changed tack to 'of course KISS has a copy of it in their archive, why would anyone think they didn't?'.
It was VERY strange.
I wonder who supplied the version used in the trailer?
Curt clearly digitized that copy before selling it, all those screen caps with watermarks, timecodes and even the teaser video that he uploaded for promote the auction didn't came through filming a TV screen.
He had claimed before that he has digitized copies of stuff that due to rights ownership of the masters he can't trade or do public exhibitions, such as the Paul Lynde Halloween Special master tape.
Wasn't the deal that when he sold it he would also include all the digitized versions too and destroy/delete it from his own archive? I thought that whole saga was odd to say the least and that he was somewhat bending the truth about how exclusive the video was. That's what got me thinking where this footage from 'I' in the trailer originated. Is it from Gooch's once owned copy or did KISS have it all along?
Ace & Peter’s addictions did not derail the band. Although that is the narrative Gene & Paul have repeated to the fans for decades. That’s because Gene & Paul don’t want you to know it’s their own fault.
Ya know what derailed the band?
Paul & Gene craving more recognition from Rolling Stone, musical peers & Hollywood. They should have rejected KMTPOTP the second they saw the script. Paul forcing IWMFLY onto Dynasty and turning the fans away in droves. Paul & Gene turning out the turd that is Unmasked. Turning away the rest of the fans with it’s lightweight sound. & finally Gene & Paul 100% tanking the band with the Elder & trusting Ezrin who was totally in the throes of Cocaine addiction at the time.
Gene & Paul - the straight guys (in terms of drugs/alcohol) - blew it with their egos. Make no mistake. That’s what broke Kiss. They couldn’t be satisfied with their success. They had a tried and true formula and they blew it up do to their ego and insecurities.
Shoulda been happy/content with what they had.
Thank You.
I mean fuck if Paul came to me and said we are gonna put a disco song on the next album, I might drink myself into a coma too. How could anyone be happy in such a situation if you want to be in a HARD ROCK BAND?
I’m not going to ever blame someone’s addictions on someone else. (Although I can imagine it must be brutal trying to exist in the same band as Paul) But everyone is their own man & has to own up to their own crap.
Sure, but I can appreciate one's reason WHY they are self medicating. Millions of people doing just that because of their job or station in life. I get it even though they should try to find better ways to cope.
"Sure, but I can appreciate one's reason WHY they are self medicating. Millions of people doing just that because of their job or station in life."
So you know the reason why they are doing it ? i think not.
I mean fuck if Paul came to me and said we are gonna put a disco song on the next album, I might drink myself into a coma too. How could anyone be happy in such a situation if you want to be in a HARD ROCK BAND?
I’m not going to ever blame someone’s addictions on someone else. (Although I can imagine it must be brutal trying to exist in the same band as Paul) But everyone is their own man & has to own up to their own crap.
Sure, but I can appreciate one's reason WHY they are self medicating. Millions of people doing just that because of their job or station in life. I get it even though they should try to find better ways to cope.
"Sure, but I can appreciate one's reason WHY they are self medicating. Millions of people doing just that because of their job or station in life."
So you know the reason why they are doing it ? i think not.
Sure there are countless reasons why many millions of people self medicate, but there have been endless studies and people honest about the reasons why for decades now to speak about it intelligently.
In many cases, it is because of a job/boss that makes every day a soul sucking experience. I was trying to make a similar connection to what it was like for Ace, Peter and Eric Carr to deal with Paul and Gene.
Certainly it is not a one size fits all thing though. Same with mental health issues.
I’m not going to ever blame someone’s addictions on someone else. (Although I can imagine it must be brutal trying to exist in the same band as Paul) But everyone is their own man & has to own up to their own crap.
Sure, but I can appreciate one's reason WHY they are self medicating. Millions of people doing just that because of their job or station in life. I get it even though they should try to find better ways to cope.
"Sure, but I can appreciate one's reason WHY they are self medicating. Millions of people doing just that because of their job or station in life."
So you know the reason why they are doing it ? i think not.
Sure there are countless reasons why many millions of people self medicate, but there have been endless studies and people honest about the reasons why for decades now to speak about it intelligently.
In many cases, it is because of a job/boss that makes every day a soul sucking experience. I was trying to make a similar connection to what it was like for Ace, Peter and Eric Carr to deal with Paul and Gene.
Certainly it is not a one size fits all thing though. Same with mental health issues.
"In many cases, it is because of a job/boss that makes every day a soul sucking experience."
that doesn't cause someone to be an addict.
And Ace is no exception. Ace was an addict in the Comet. He rejoined kiss. After the reunion, Ace had enough to retire. he didn't have to go back. yet he did two more tours. Ace wasn't held hostage.
Some people here are blaming Gene and Paul for Ace and Peters addictions. Some are also saying that Gene and Paul may have let it continue for their own personal gain.
Sorry, I dont believe that.
Yes, people self medicate everyday in all walks of life for varied reasons. Hell, in my profession and personal life I've seen it at its worst. Some can blame their situation, some cant.
In the case of Ace and Peter, I can't put it on Gene and Paul. If we're to believe their own words both had lifestyles that led them in that direction regardless of anything Paul or Gene did. I can't put it on them. You can? Good for you.
Now tell me again what point I've missed, other than not jumping on the Gene and Paul bashing bandwagon that's so prevalent at the FAQ these days. Fucktard.
Ace & Peter’s addictions did not derail the band. Although that is the narrative Gene & Paul have repeated to the fans for decades. That’s because Gene & Paul don’t want you to know it’s their own fault.
Ya know what derailed the band?
Paul & Gene craving more recognition from Rolling Stone, musical peers & Hollywood. They should have rejected KMTPOTP the second they saw the script. Paul forcing IWMFLY onto Dynasty and turning the fans away in droves. Paul & Gene turning out the turd that is Unmasked. Turning away the rest of the fans with it’s lightweight sound. & finally Gene & Paul 100% tanking the band with the Elder & trusting Ezrin who was totally in the throes of Cocaine addiction at the time.
Gene & Paul - the straight guys (in terms of drugs/alcohol) - blew it with their egos. Make no mistake. That’s what broke Kiss. They couldn’t be satisfied with their success. They had a tried and true formula and they blew it up do to their ego and insecurities.
Shoulda been happy/content with what they had.
This is all bullshit and a lot of crap!
P&G should have rejected KMTPOTP, IWMFLY, The Elder etc.?
In hindsight everybody knows the right direction. Sometimes you have to take risks. Some will succeed and some will fail.
Beth was a huge hit but do you think P&G thought this was the right direction? Probably not. Still the song was on Destroyer and became a hit.
You think IWMFLY turned away a lot of fans? Well, I got news for you.... they gained a lot of New fans as well. Especially in Europe and Australia.
In hindsight you can always be right. But what do you know? You know shit, the same as I do.
It's all about perseverance and hard work.
That's what P&G are capable of. A&P? Not so much.
Sorry - your posts makes almost zero sense and seems based on emotions.
You want to bring up hindsight? Hindsight & history has proven that Gene & Paul made bad decision after bad decision from 78-81. Just about 100% due to their egos and insecurities. From there on out they were on life support and had to back-peddle to try and get their fans to come back
KMTPOTP = ridiculously bad decision
Solo Albums = bad decision (G&P tried to rewrite history saying these were made to appease Ace & Peter but this was proven as BS as the contracts were written in years back
Dynasty/IWMFLY = crippling decision. I don’t care how popular the song was outside the US - it turned the fans away in droves in the US. No matter how big Gene tries to say Kiss were back then - they were no where’s near the level of bands like Zeppelin & The Stones & couldn’t weather the negative effect of caving to disco at that time.
Unmasked - bad decision. Gene & Paul had to have been blind at the time to go even softer. How do you not see bands like Van Halen, AC/DC, Priest starting to break out & come out with crap like Unmasked? IMO even if they went hard here they wouldn’t have been able to escape the negative effects of IWMFLY.
The Elder = they deserved to tank here. Just ridiculously short sighted & Delusional release
Sure, but I can appreciate one's reason WHY they are self medicating. Millions of people doing just that because of their job or station in life. I get it even though they should try to find better ways to cope.
"Sure, but I can appreciate one's reason WHY they are self medicating. Millions of people doing just that because of their job or station in life."
So you know the reason why they are doing it ? i think not.
Sure there are countless reasons why many millions of people self medicate, but there have been endless studies and people honest about the reasons why for decades now to speak about it intelligently.
In many cases, it is because of a job/boss that makes every day a soul sucking experience. I was trying to make a similar connection to what it was like for Ace, Peter and Eric Carr to deal with Paul and Gene.
Certainly it is not a one size fits all thing though. Same with mental health issues.
"In many cases, it is because of a job/boss that makes every day a soul sucking experience."
that doesn't cause someone to be an addict.
And Ace is no exception. Ace was an addict in the Comet. He rejoined kiss. After the reunion, Ace had enough to retire. he didn't have to go back. yet he did two more tours. Ace wasn't held hostage.
You can't blame Ace's problems on Paul and Gene.
They sure as shit exasperated them. I have no doubt I would self medicate in whatever way if I had to deal with Paul and Gene on a daily basis.
Consider this - by all accounts Eric Carr was the nicest guy in the world and even he couldn't take it anymore with Paul to the point that he wasn't talking to him - even when they were on tour together. I guess that is better than self medicating like Ace and Peter, but perhaps if they actually gave Eric what he wanted like they immediately gave to Tommy - being in KISS would have been a better experience for him.
Aside from the kite fest footage, is the Dynasty footage thee only new thing in this?
Not that Im complaing, was just hoping for a 73 or another 74 clip
"Sure, but I can appreciate one's reason WHY they are self medicating. Millions of people doing just that because of their job or station in life."
So you know the reason why they are doing it ? i think not.
Sure there are countless reasons why many millions of people self medicate, but there have been endless studies and people honest about the reasons why for decades now to speak about it intelligently.
In many cases, it is because of a job/boss that makes every day a soul sucking experience. I was trying to make a similar connection to what it was like for Ace, Peter and Eric Carr to deal with Paul and Gene.
Certainly it is not a one size fits all thing though. Same with mental health issues.
"In many cases, it is because of a job/boss that makes every day a soul sucking experience."
that doesn't cause someone to be an addict.
And Ace is no exception. Ace was an addict in the Comet. He rejoined kiss. After the reunion, Ace had enough to retire. he didn't have to go back. yet he did two more tours. Ace wasn't held hostage.
You can't blame Ace's problems on Paul and Gene.
They sure as shit exasperated them. I have no doubt I would self medicate in whatever way if I had to deal with Paul and Gene on a daily basis.
Consider this - by all accounts Eric Carr was the nicest guy in the world and even he couldn't take it anymore with Paul to the point that he wasn't talking to him - even when they were on tour together. I guess that is better than self medicating like Ace and Peter, but perhaps if they actually gave Eric what he wanted like they immediately gave to Tommy - being in KISS would have been a better experience for him.
"They sure as shit exasperated them. I have no doubt I would self medicate in whatever way if I had to deal with Paul and Gene on a daily basis."
Again they didn't have to deal with Gene and Paul. Also, Ace had major problems in the comet when they started touring. So much so, he is hardly on HIS 2nd post kiss album
Some people here are blaming Gene and Paul for Ace and Peters addictions. Some are also saying that Gene and Paul may have let it continue for their own personal gain.
Sorry, I dont believe that.
Yes, people self medicate everyday in all walks of life for varied reasons. Hell, in my profession and personal life I've seen it at its worst. Some can blame their situation, some cant.
In the case of Ace and Peter, I can't put it on Gene and Paul. If we're to believe their own words both had lifestyles that led them in that direction regardless of anything Paul or Gene did. I can't put it on them. You can? Good for you.
Now tell me again what point I've missed, other than not jumping on the Gene and Paul bashing bandwagon that's so prevalent at the FAQ these days. Fucktard.
Ace & Peter’s addictions did not derail the band. Although that is the narrative Gene & Paul have repeated to the fans for decades. That’s because Gene & Paul don’t want you to know it’s their own fault.
Ya know what derailed the band?
Paul & Gene craving more recognition from Rolling Stone, musical peers & Hollywood. They should have rejected KMTPOTP the second they saw the script. Paul forcing IWMFLY onto Dynasty and turning the fans away in droves. Paul & Gene turning out the turd that is Unmasked. Turning away the rest of the fans with it’s lightweight sound. & finally Gene & Paul 100% tanking the band with the Elder & trusting Ezrin who was totally in the throes of Cocaine addiction at the time.
Gene & Paul - the straight guys (in terms of drugs/alcohol) - blew it with their egos. Make no mistake. That’s what broke Kiss. They couldn’t be satisfied with their success. They had a tried and true formula and they blew it up do to their ego and insecurities.
Shoulda been happy/content with what they had.
This is all bullshit and a lot of crap!
P&G should have rejected KMTPOTP, IWMFLY, The Elder etc.?
In hindsight everybody knows the right direction. Sometimes you have to take risks. Some will succeed and some will fail.
Beth was a huge hit but do you think P&G thought this was the right direction? Probably not. Still the song was on Destroyer and became a hit.
You think IWMFLY turned away a lot of fans? Well, I got news for you.... they gained a lot of New fans as well. Especially in Europe and Australia.
In hindsight you can always be right. But what do you know? You know shit, the same as I do.
It's all about perseverance and hard work.
That's what P&G are capable of. A&P? Not so much.
Sorry - your posts makes almost zero sense and seems based on emotions.
You want to bring up hindsight? Hindsight & history has proven that Gene & Paul made bad decision after bad decision from 78-81. Just about 100% due to their egos and insecurities. From there on out they were on life support and had to back-peddle to try and get their fans to come back
KMTPOTP = ridiculously bad decision
Solo Albums = bad decision (G&P tried to rewrite history saying these were made to appease Ace & Peter but this was proven as BS as the contracts were written in years back
Dynasty/IWMFLY = crippling decision. I don’t care how popular the song was outside the US - it turned the fans away in droves in the US. No matter how big Gene tries to say Kiss were back then - they were no where’s near the level of bands like Zeppelin & The Stones & couldn’t weather the negative effect of caving to disco at that time.
Unmasked - bad decision. Gene & Paul had to have been blind at the time to go even softer. How do you not see bands like Van Halen, AC/DC, Priest starting to break out & come out with crap like Unmasked? IMO even if they went hard here they wouldn’t have been able to escape the negative effects of IWMFLY.
The Elder = they deserved to tank here. Just ridiculously short sighted & Delusional release
More BS.
Hindsight has got nothing to do with emotions.
Hindsight has got to do with knowing facts that were not known at the time decisions were made.
I bet P&G were often following marching orders from Aucoin, Casablanca etc. Especially when you haven't got a dime to spare and people are investing big money in your little circus themed band. You think P&G were the ones calling the shots during the first 6 to 8 years? Think again.
Sure there are countless reasons why many millions of people self medicate, but there have been endless studies and people honest about the reasons why for decades now to speak about it intelligently.
In many cases, it is because of a job/boss that makes every day a soul sucking experience. I was trying to make a similar connection to what it was like for Ace, Peter and Eric Carr to deal with Paul and Gene.
Certainly it is not a one size fits all thing though. Same with mental health issues.
"In many cases, it is because of a job/boss that makes every day a soul sucking experience."
that doesn't cause someone to be an addict.
And Ace is no exception. Ace was an addict in the Comet. He rejoined kiss. After the reunion, Ace had enough to retire. he didn't have to go back. yet he did two more tours. Ace wasn't held hostage.
You can't blame Ace's problems on Paul and Gene.
They sure as shit exasperated them. I have no doubt I would self medicate in whatever way if I had to deal with Paul and Gene on a daily basis.
Consider this - by all accounts Eric Carr was the nicest guy in the world and even he couldn't take it anymore with Paul to the point that he wasn't talking to him - even when they were on tour together. I guess that is better than self medicating like Ace and Peter, but perhaps if they actually gave Eric what he wanted like they immediately gave to Tommy - being in KISS would have been a better experience for him.
"They sure as shit exasperated them. I have no doubt I would self medicate in whatever way if I had to deal with Paul and Gene on a daily basis."
Again they didn't have to deal with Gene and Paul. Also, Ace had major problems in the comet when they started touring. So much so, he is hardly on HIS 2nd post kiss album
Well see there's the rub. People have families to take care of and bills to the pay, so they can't bail an unhappy situation that is putting money in their pocket.
Yes, Ace and Peter could have left KISS immediately, so they no longer have to deal with Paul and Gene - but that is not always the easiest thing to do.
I don't even think Frehley's Comet ended up as a good experience for Ace and it wasn't financially successful for him, but certainly he has addiction issues and that is how he deals with his problems.
So how about Eric Carr? You ignored my point there.
Ace & Peter’s addictions did not derail the band. Although that is the narrative Gene & Paul have repeated to the fans for decades. That’s because Gene & Paul don’t want you to know it’s their own fault.
Ya know what derailed the band?
Paul & Gene craving more recognition from Rolling Stone, musical peers & Hollywood. They should have rejected KMTPOTP the second they saw the script. Paul forcing IWMFLY onto Dynasty and turning the fans away in droves. Paul & Gene turning out the turd that is Unmasked. Turning away the rest of the fans with it’s lightweight sound. & finally Gene & Paul 100% tanking the band with the Elder & trusting Ezrin who was totally in the throes of Cocaine addiction at the time.
Gene & Paul - the straight guys (in terms of drugs/alcohol) - blew it with their egos. Make no mistake. That’s what broke Kiss. They couldn’t be satisfied with their success. They had a tried and true formula and they blew it up do to their ego and insecurities.
Shoulda been happy/content with what they had.
This is all bullshit and a lot of crap!
P&G should have rejected KMTPOTP, IWMFLY, The Elder etc.?
In hindsight everybody knows the right direction. Sometimes you have to take risks. Some will succeed and some will fail.
Beth was a huge hit but do you think P&G thought this was the right direction? Probably not. Still the song was on Destroyer and became a hit.
You think IWMFLY turned away a lot of fans? Well, I got news for you.... they gained a lot of New fans as well. Especially in Europe and Australia.
In hindsight you can always be right. But what do you know? You know shit, the same as I do.
It's all about perseverance and hard work.
That's what P&G are capable of. A&P? Not so much.
Sorry - your posts makes almost zero sense and seems based on emotions.
You want to bring up hindsight? Hindsight & history has proven that Gene & Paul made bad decision after bad decision from 78-81. Just about 100% due to their egos and insecurities. From there on out they were on life support and had to back-peddle to try and get their fans to come back
KMTPOTP = ridiculously bad decision
Solo Albums = bad decision (G&P tried to rewrite history saying these were made to appease Ace & Peter but this was proven as BS as the contracts were written in years back
Dynasty/IWMFLY = crippling decision. I don’t care how popular the song was outside the US - it turned the fans away in droves in the US. No matter how big Gene tries to say Kiss were back then - they were no where’s near the level of bands like Zeppelin & The Stones & couldn’t weather the negative effect of caving to disco at that time.
Unmasked - bad decision. Gene & Paul had to have been blind at the time to go even softer. How do you not see bands like Van Halen, AC/DC, Priest starting to break out & come out with crap like Unmasked? IMO even if they went hard here they wouldn’t have been able to escape the negative effects of IWMFLY.
The Elder = they deserved to tank here. Just ridiculously short sighted & Delusional release
More BS.
Hindsight has got nothing to do with emotions.
Hindsight has got to do with knowing facts that were not known at the time decisions were made.
I bet P&G were often following marching orders from Aucoin, Casablanca etc. Especially when you haven't got a dime to spare and people are investing big money in your little circus themed band. You think P&G were the ones calling the shots during the first 6 to 8 years? Think again.
Oh I see. This is news to me - I didn’t know Bill made all the decisions & wrote songs like IWMFLY & Easy As it Seems. Thanks for the heads up!
Also - I said the decisions they made from 78-81 - NOT when they first started out and didn’t have a dime.
This is all bullshit and a lot of crap!
P&G should have rejected KMTPOTP, IWMFLY, The Elder etc.?
In hindsight everybody knows the right direction. Sometimes you have to take risks. Some will succeed and some will fail.
Beth was a huge hit but do you think P&G thought this was the right direction? Probably not. Still the song was on Destroyer and became a hit.
You think IWMFLY turned away a lot of fans? Well, I got news for you.... they gained a lot of New fans as well. Especially in Europe and Australia.
In hindsight you can always be right. But what do you know? You know shit, the same as I do.
It's all about perseverance and hard work.
That's what P&G are capable of. A&P? Not so much.
Sorry - your posts makes almost zero sense and seems based on emotions.
You want to bring up hindsight? Hindsight & history has proven that Gene & Paul made bad decision after bad decision from 78-81. Just about 100% due to their egos and insecurities. From there on out they were on life support and had to back-peddle to try and get their fans to come back
KMTPOTP = ridiculously bad decision
Solo Albums = bad decision (G&P tried to rewrite history saying these were made to appease Ace & Peter but this was proven as BS as the contracts were written in years back
Dynasty/IWMFLY = crippling decision. I don’t care how popular the song was outside the US - it turned the fans away in droves in the US. No matter how big Gene tries to say Kiss were back then - they were no where’s near the level of bands like Zeppelin & The Stones & couldn’t weather the negative effect of caving to disco at that time.
Unmasked - bad decision. Gene & Paul had to have been blind at the time to go even softer. How do you not see bands like Van Halen, AC/DC, Priest starting to break out & come out with crap like Unmasked? IMO even if they went hard here they wouldn’t have been able to escape the negative effects of IWMFLY.
The Elder = they deserved to tank here. Just ridiculously short sighted & Delusional release
More BS.
Hindsight has got nothing to do with emotions.
Hindsight has got to do with knowing facts that were not known at the time decisions were made.
I bet P&G were often following marching orders from Aucoin, Casablanca etc. Especially when you haven't got a dime to spare and people are investing big money in your little circus themed band. You think P&G were the ones calling the shots during the first 6 to 8 years? Think again.
Oh I see. This is news to me - I didn’t know Bill made all the decisions & wrote songs like IWMFLY & Easy As it Seems. Thanks for the heads up!
Clueless.
I leave it at this. Don't have time for this.
Sorry - your posts makes almost zero sense and seems based on emotions.
You want to bring up hindsight? Hindsight & history has proven that Gene & Paul made bad decision after bad decision from 78-81. Just about 100% due to their egos and insecurities. From there on out they were on life support and had to back-peddle to try and get their fans to come back
KMTPOTP = ridiculously bad decision
Solo Albums = bad decision (G&P tried to rewrite history saying these were made to appease Ace & Peter but this was proven as BS as the contracts were written in years back
Dynasty/IWMFLY = crippling decision. I don’t care how popular the song was outside the US - it turned the fans away in droves in the US. No matter how big Gene tries to say Kiss were back then - they were no where’s near the level of bands like Zeppelin & The Stones & couldn’t weather the negative effect of caving to disco at that time.
Unmasked - bad decision. Gene & Paul had to have been blind at the time to go even softer. How do you not see bands like Van Halen, AC/DC, Priest starting to break out & come out with crap like Unmasked? IMO even if they went hard here they wouldn’t have been able to escape the negative effects of IWMFLY.
The Elder = they deserved to tank here. Just ridiculously short sighted & Delusional release
More BS.
Hindsight has got nothing to do with emotions.
Hindsight has got to do with knowing facts that were not known at the time decisions were made.
I bet P&G were often following marching orders from Aucoin, Casablanca etc. Especially when you haven't got a dime to spare and people are investing big money in your little circus themed band. You think P&G were the ones calling the shots during the first 6 to 8 years? Think again.
Oh I see. This is news to me - I didn’t know Bill made all the decisions & wrote songs like IWMFLY & Easy As it Seems. Thanks for the heads up!
Clueless.
I leave it at this. Don't have time for this.
No, he's right. Plenty of hard rock bands did just fine remaining as hard rock bands and delivering expected album after album. Why the fuck is Paul even writing IWMFLY and Easy As It Seems. Save that shit for a solo album if you want.
KISS should have gone from the solo albums to a direction that would have become Creatures sooner. Ace would have been happier with the direction as well. Especially considering Van Halen's debut came out in 1978.
The fall of Kiss from 79-82 was the fault of all of them.
Peter - drug addiction to the point he couldn’t play as well as he had just a few years back
Ace - alcohol and drugs, although his output actually grew during this period
Paul - taking the band towards disco, pop, and away from their hard core audience
Gene - ego is huge and he was more interested in fame then writing good songs. The start of his period of not being 100% focused on Kiss and he comes up with the vision for the Elder which is the bands biggest bomb.
Every member was at fault, but if I had to list from who was at fault most to least
Sorry - your posts makes almost zero sense and seems based on emotions.
You want to bring up hindsight? Hindsight & history has proven that Gene & Paul made bad decision after bad decision from 78-81. Just about 100% due to their egos and insecurities. From there on out they were on life support and had to back-peddle to try and get their fans to come back
KMTPOTP = ridiculously bad decision
Solo Albums = bad decision (G&P tried to rewrite history saying these were made to appease Ace & Peter but this was proven as BS as the contracts were written in years back
Dynasty/IWMFLY = crippling decision. I don’t care how popular the song was outside the US - it turned the fans away in droves in the US. No matter how big Gene tries to say Kiss were back then - they were no where’s near the level of bands like Zeppelin & The Stones & couldn’t weather the negative effect of caving to disco at that time.
Unmasked - bad decision. Gene & Paul had to have been blind at the time to go even softer. How do you not see bands like Van Halen, AC/DC, Priest starting to break out & come out with crap like Unmasked? IMO even if they went hard here they wouldn’t have been able to escape the negative effects of IWMFLY.
The Elder = they deserved to tank here. Just ridiculously short sighted & Delusional release
More BS.
Hindsight has got nothing to do with emotions.
Hindsight has got to do with knowing facts that were not known at the time decisions were made.
I bet P&G were often following marching orders from Aucoin, Casablanca etc. Especially when you haven't got a dime to spare and people are investing big money in your little circus themed band. You think P&G were the ones calling the shots during the first 6 to 8 years? Think again.
Oh I see. This is news to me - I didn’t know Bill made all the decisions & wrote songs like IWMFLY & Easy As it Seems. Thanks for the heads up!
Clueless.
I leave it at this. Don't have time for this.
So Cruel wrote: ↑Sun Jun 13, 2021 11:25 am
The fall of Kiss from 79-82 was the fault of all of them.
Peter - drug addiction to the point he couldn’t play as well as he had just a few years back
Ace - alcohol and drugs, although his output actually grew during this period
Paul - taking the band towards disco, pop, and away from their hard core audience
Gene - ego is huge and he was more interested in fame then writing good songs. The start of his period of not being 100% focused on Kiss and he comes up with the vision for the Elder which is the bands biggest bomb.
Every member was at fault, but if I had to list from who was at fault most to least
1. Peter
2. Gene
3. Paul
4. Ace
I don’t see much fault with Peter other than the car accident in 78. Yes his coke problem didn’t help things but if the band really cared they would have tried to help him out. Put him in rehab for a year. In hindsight it sounds like they should have done that in 78 instead of Phantom/solo LPs
Ace was peaking in 78-81 - partying or not I see no reason to fault him with anything.
The bands problem was the musical direction Paul - and to a lesser extent Gene - was taking the band. They never survived it.
So Cruel wrote: ↑Sun Jun 13, 2021 11:25 am
The fall of Kiss from 79-82 was the fault of all of them.
Peter - drug addiction to the point he couldn’t play as well as he had just a few years back
Ace - alcohol and drugs, although his output actually grew during this period
Paul - taking the band towards disco, pop, and away from their hard core audience
Gene - ego is huge and he was more interested in fame then writing good songs. The start of his period of not being 100% focused on Kiss and he comes up with the vision for the Elder which is the bands biggest bomb.
Every member was at fault, but if I had to list from who was at fault most to least
1. Peter
2. Gene
3. Paul
4. Ace
"Paul - taking the band towards disco, pop, and away from their hard core audience."
I think this is pretty huge in the blame game in terms of your ranking. Paul literally caused a die hard fan exodus and then doubled down with Unmasked. This is worse than Gene and maybe even Peter, since he had very little control.
I have no doubt that Gene and Paul are hard to work with. That doesn't put Ace and Peters addictions on them. It's also no reason to say that Gene and Paul allowed it to happen. Any self medicating is on Ace and Peter.
I think you are missing the point.
No, I'm not.
Some people here are blaming Gene and Paul for Ace and Peters addictions. Some are also saying that Gene and Paul may have let it continue for their own personal gain.
Sorry, I dont believe that.
Yes, people self medicate everyday in all walks of life for varied reasons. Hell, in my profession and personal life I've seen it at its worst. Some can blame their situation, some cant.
In the case of Ace and Peter, I can't put it on Gene and Paul. If we're to believe their own words both had lifestyles that led them in that direction regardless of anything Paul or Gene did. I can't put it on them. You can? Good for you.
Now tell me again what point I've missed, other than not jumping on the Gene and Paul bashing bandwagon that's so prevalent at the FAQ these days. Fucktard.
Ace & Peter’s addictions did not derail the band. Although that is the narrative Gene & Paul have repeated to the fans for decades. That’s because Gene & Paul don’t want you to know it’s their own fault.
Ya know what derailed the band?
Paul & Gene craving more recognition from Rolling Stone, musical peers & Hollywood. They should have rejected KMTPOTP the second they saw the script. Paul forcing IWMFLY onto Dynasty and turning the fans away in droves. Paul & Gene turning out the turd that is Unmasked. Turning away the rest of the fans with it’s lightweight sound. & finally Gene & Paul 100% tanking the band with the Elder & trusting Ezrin who was totally in the throes of Cocaine addiction at the time.
Gene & Paul - the straight guys (in terms of drugs/alcohol) - blew it with their egos. Make no mistake. That’s what broke Kiss. They couldn’t be satisfied with their success. They had a tried and true formula and they blew it up do to their ego and insecurities.
Shoulda been happy/content with what they had.
I agree with this 100%! it's what I have been saying for years. Those that don't get it or understand it is either because they weren't there at the time of are just towing the GAP narrative.
redinthesky wrote: ↑Sat Jun 12, 2021 11:23 am
GREAT footage! But I guess I don't understand why the tone so strongly turns on the negative side. It makes it seem like that is the focus of the show, like it's not the 'Kisstory' show, it's why 'Why Kiss Collapsed Due to Ace and Peter' show. It's almost done like a horror film....."This is a nice suburban town where everything is perfect, but then the killer shows up....."
Still looking forward to it with an open mind and will be fair and honest.
Personally I think its a reaction to how much love the OG band gets. It's G&P justifying doing it without A&P.
So Cruel wrote: ↑Sun Jun 13, 2021 11:25 am
The fall of Kiss from 79-82 was the fault of all of them.
Peter - drug addiction to the point he couldn’t play as well as he had just a few years back
Ace - alcohol and drugs, although his output actually grew during this period
Paul - taking the band towards disco, pop, and away from their hard core audience
Gene - ego is huge and he was more interested in fame then writing good songs. The start of his period of not being 100% focused on Kiss and he comes up with the vision for the Elder which is the bands biggest bomb.
Every member was at fault, but if I had to list from who was at fault most to least
1. Peter
2. Gene
3. Paul
4. Ace
"Paul - taking the band towards disco, pop, and away from their hard core audience."
I think this is pretty huge in the blame game in terms of your ranking. Paul literally caused a die hard fan exodus and then doubled down with Unmasked. This is worse than Gene and maybe even Peter, since he had very little control.
I rank Peter first because his drug problem was so bad he basically missed almost all of Dynasty and by Unmasked he was done. I see your point that you could rank Paul ahead of Gene here but in my opinion Gene not really caring is a worse offence then Paul taking them in the wrong direction. Even though it was the wrong direction he still wrote some pretty good songs, the problem being they weren’t the type of songs their base wanted. Gene also took them in the wrong direction as the Elder was his vision.
Hey Jeff, that's awesome. Thanks for your dedication! Can you confirm how much total footage was found?
One reel. I think it's 3:32 in total length. Silent, but now synched to the 4/1/74 radio broadcast from Cleveland.
From memory, isn’t there a photo of someone in the crowd
with a film camera (standing next to a tree)?
Is the footage from that camera?
No. The still photos from this show are from Bill Greenblatt (black and white) and BIll Parsons (color). There is a Greenblatt photo that shows a guy in a tree with what appears to be an 8mm camera. What happened to that footage, I do not yet know.
The 8mm film from the KSHE Kite Fest that you see in the trailer was shot from the front row by a guy who is deceased. His friends own the 8mm reel, which is in pretty decent shape, and was digitized and cleaned up back in January of this year.
How would they find something like that after all these years?
Spiritual_Chaos wrote: ↑Sun Jun 13, 2021 2:15 am
People in here not understanding why a trailer would focus on the drama.
"Why do they need to show Thanos in the Avengers trailer! Why not just have the heroes hang around and celebrating how awesome they are!"
Hardly the same thing.
If the Stones did one would they go on about Brian Jones?
Or Def Leppard would they be drama queens about Pete and Steve?
Do AC/DC tut-tut Bon's drinking which even resulted in his death or do they venerate him?
Exactly. "The drama." The only drama in KISStory was Eric Carr's illness and passing.
Oh, hey look - a person who doesn't know shit about storytelling.
Yes I must be such a person just because I know the difference between fiction and non-fiction and I don't spend eleven months of the year up Eddie Vedder's pretentious arse.
I always found it odd that it always comes down to Gene and Paul vs. Ace and Peter being responsible for the band's decline (and other issues). It took the four of them to make the band successful and all four of them did things that contributed to the band's decline.
There's an old saying "nothing succeeds like success". It's a lot easier to let someone else make all the decisions or overlook personality issues when things are going good. However, once fortune starts to change, those things become magnified and more fingers get pointed.
Soylent Gene wrote: ↑Sat Jun 12, 2021 11:55 am
Bummer. They should be celebrating almost 50 years of Kisstory not pissing on it. Gene and Paul are miserable human beings. Rich yet miserable.
I think the FAQ ATTAQ squad are miserable human beings, and simply view everything through that prism.
KissRocks7 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 12, 2021 3:43 pm
Sorry I am not fully up on this.
That daytime outdoor footage in the trailer, what is the back story on that?
Pretty legendary in these parts. There was a great hard cover book on the history of KSHE 95 FM put out a few years ago which features a section on the 1st Kite Fly which was a big free music festival held here in Forest Park which is where our Zoo and museums are located. This was not long after the 1st album and they were virtually unknown. The book tells the story of one of the DJs driving the guys over the grassy hills in a van to the stage, etc. the photos have been around for years, but any footage was always a myth until this was hunted down. I was a bit stunned until I realized I was seeing footage and not the photos.
As I mentioned earlier, I know two people who were old enough to have been there (one was my band's sound an in the ‘90s and another was a co-worker about 20 years ago. I asked them both about it and neither were ever fans and didn’t remember much. No one knew KISS then and Marshall Tucker was the headliner, so you can image what most of the crowd were into. This may have been the biggest US crowd they ever played to but virtually no one was there to see KISS. It was a built in crowd.
St Louis and KSHE were big, early supporters of RUSH (like Detroit for KISS) and they played the 1976 festival, also documented in the book.
Soylent Gene wrote: ↑Sat Jun 12, 2021 11:55 am
Bummer. They should be celebrating almost 50 years of Kisstory not pissing on it. Gene and Paul are miserable human beings. Rich yet miserable.
I think the FAQ ATTAQ squad are miserable human beings, and simply view everything through that prism.
Some may be happier to simply watch the A&E biography on mute. Just watch the footage and don't worry about the rest. The anger ain't gonna change anything, anyway.
Soylent Gene wrote: ↑Sat Jun 12, 2021 11:55 am
Bummer. They should be celebrating almost 50 years of Kisstory not pissing on it. Gene and Paul are miserable human beings. Rich yet miserable.
I think the FAQ ATTAQ squad are miserable human beings, and simply view everything through that prism.
So Cruel wrote: ↑Sun Jun 13, 2021 12:04 pm
I rank Peter first because his drug problem was so bad he basically missed almost all of Dynasty and by Unmasked he was done.
But yet, Peter could go ahead and do a solo album coming out not long after "Unmasked" and Peter's solo was every bit as good as Unmasked.
Peter could have easily stayed in the band.
It's not like KISS did anything in 1980 or 1981.
And "Let Me Rock You" certainly blows away "The Elder".
Also, if Peter were still around, Gene & Paul couldn't have just outvoted Ace all the time.
They probably would have stayed together and still had a record deal.
Some people here are blaming Gene and Paul for Ace and Peters addictions. Some are also saying that Gene and Paul may have let it continue for their own personal gain.
Sorry, I dont believe that.
Yes, people self medicate everyday in all walks of life for varied reasons. Hell, in my profession and personal life I've seen it at its worst. Some can blame their situation, some cant.
In the case of Ace and Peter, I can't put it on Gene and Paul. If we're to believe their own words both had lifestyles that led them in that direction regardless of anything Paul or Gene did. I can't put it on them. You can? Good for you.
Now tell me again what point I've missed, other than not jumping on the Gene and Paul bashing bandwagon that's so prevalent at the FAQ these days. Fucktard.
Ace & Peter’s addictions did not derail the band. Although that is the narrative Gene & Paul have repeated to the fans for decades. That’s because Gene & Paul don’t want you to know it’s their own fault.
Ya know what derailed the band?
Paul & Gene craving more recognition from Rolling Stone, musical peers & Hollywood. They should have rejected KMTPOTP the second they saw the script. Paul forcing IWMFLY onto Dynasty and turning the fans away in droves. Paul & Gene turning out the turd that is Unmasked. Turning away the rest of the fans with it’s lightweight sound. & finally Gene & Paul 100% tanking the band with the Elder & trusting Ezrin who was totally in the throes of Cocaine addiction at the time.
Gene & Paul - the straight guys (in terms of drugs/alcohol) - blew it with their egos. Make no mistake. That’s what broke Kiss. They couldn’t be satisfied with their success. They had a tried and true formula and they blew it up do to their ego and insecurities.
Shoulda been happy/content with what they had.
I'll disagree with this completely, not just with KISS, but as life advice. Anyone "happy" or "content" with what they have never achieves real success or greatness.
There's a reason Ace is playing car lots and glomming off his girlfriend, and there's a reason Peter complained he lost most of his Reunion fortune by 2001, but Gene and Paul are worth hundreds of millions and still going strong 25 years after the Reunion.
I think Gene and Paul would happily say it's their fault, because in the end, they won.
Does Paul sounds like a man who has “won?”
And wasn’t it proven that Ace bought the house they live in and he put it in his daughter’s name? Enough with the fake BS with him glomming off his gf.
And there’s nothing wrong with being content with what you have. Happiness doesn’t always come from money (more often than not it doesn’t)
The way the world is rigged now with social media everyone is miserable because they feel everyone else has it better.
Your entire reply is ridiculous
Now you've got me curious - when did Ace buy a house and put it in his daughter's name? And how would you even know that? The guy was renting a house for years in San Diego, and the one house he had went into foreclosure. Can't wait to hear this "evidence."
And Ace must want some of Paul's victory, because he was sucking up to him and Gene for the last few years trying to get back into the band. I didn't see Paul groveling to Ace.
One reel. I think it's 3:32 in total length. Silent, but now synched to the 4/1/74 radio broadcast from Cleveland.
From memory, isn’t there a photo of someone in the crowd
with a film camera (standing next to a tree)?
Is the footage from that camera?
No. The still photos from this show are from Bill Greenblatt (black and white) and BIll Parsons (color). There is a Greenblatt photo that shows a guy in a tree with what appears to be an 8mm camera. What happened to that footage, I do not yet know.
The 8mm film from the KSHE Kite Fest that you see in the trailer was shot from the front row by a guy who is deceased. His friends own the 8mm reel, which is in pretty decent shape, and was digitized and cleaned up back in January of this year.
How would they find something like that after all these years?
I would love to know how too! Let us know Jetcity!
Ace & Peter’s addictions did not derail the band. Although that is the narrative Gene & Paul have repeated to the fans for decades. That’s because Gene & Paul don’t want you to know it’s their own fault.
Ya know what derailed the band?
Paul & Gene craving more recognition from Rolling Stone, musical peers & Hollywood. They should have rejected KMTPOTP the second they saw the script. Paul forcing IWMFLY onto Dynasty and turning the fans away in droves. Paul & Gene turning out the turd that is Unmasked. Turning away the rest of the fans with it’s lightweight sound. & finally Gene & Paul 100% tanking the band with the Elder & trusting Ezrin who was totally in the throes of Cocaine addiction at the time.
Gene & Paul - the straight guys (in terms of drugs/alcohol) - blew it with their egos. Make no mistake. That’s what broke Kiss. They couldn’t be satisfied with their success. They had a tried and true formula and they blew it up do to their ego and insecurities.
Shoulda been happy/content with what they had.
I'll disagree with this completely, not just with KISS, but as life advice. Anyone "happy" or "content" with what they have never achieves real success or greatness.
There's a reason Ace is playing car lots and glomming off his girlfriend, and there's a reason Peter complained he lost most of his Reunion fortune by 2001, but Gene and Paul are worth hundreds of millions and still going strong 25 years after the Reunion.
I think Gene and Paul would happily say it's their fault, because in the end, they won.
Does Paul sounds like a man who has “won?”
And wasn’t it proven that Ace bought the house they live in and he put it in his daughter’s name? Enough with the fake BS with him glomming off his gf.
And there’s nothing wrong with being content with what you have. Happiness doesn’t always come from money (more often than not it doesn’t)
The way the world is rigged now with social media everyone is miserable because they feel everyone else has it better.
Your entire reply is ridiculous
Now you've got me curious - when did Ace buy a house and put it in his daughter's name? And how would you even know that? The guy was renting a house for years in San Diego, and the one house he had went into foreclosure. Can't wait to hear this "evidence."
And Ace must want some of Paul's victory, because he was sucking up to him and Gene for the last few years trying to get back into the band. I didn't see Paul groveling to Ace.
Didn’t Ace own a nice big condo in San Diego which was described in the Rolling Stone article?
I have no doubt that Gene and Paul are hard to work with. That doesn't put Ace and Peters addictions on them. It's also no reason to say that Gene and Paul allowed it to happen. Any self medicating is on Ace and Peter.
I think you are missing the point.
No, I'm not.
Some people here are blaming Gene and Paul for Ace and Peters addictions. Some are also saying that Gene and Paul may have let it continue for their own personal gain.
Sorry, I dont believe that.
Yes, people self medicate everyday in all walks of life for varied reasons. Hell, in my profession and personal life I've seen it at its worst. Some can blame their situation, some cant.
In the case of Ace and Peter, I can't put it on Gene and Paul. If we're to believe their own words both had lifestyles that led them in that direction regardless of anything Paul or Gene did. I can't put it on them. You can? Good for you.
Now tell me again what point I've missed, other than not jumping on the Gene and Paul bashing bandwagon that's so prevalent at the FAQ these days. Fucktard.
Ace & Peter’s addictions did not derail the band. Although that is the narrative Gene & Paul have repeated to the fans for decades. That’s because Gene & Paul don’t want you to know it’s their own fault.
Ya know what derailed the band?
Paul & Gene craving more recognition from Rolling Stone, musical peers & Hollywood. They should have rejected KMTPOTP the second they saw the script. Paul forcing IWMFLY onto Dynasty and turning the fans away in droves. Paul & Gene turning out the turd that is Unmasked. Turning away the rest of the fans with it’s lightweight sound. & finally Gene & Paul 100% tanking the band with the Elder & trusting Ezrin who was totally in the throes of Cocaine addiction at the time.
Gene & Paul - the straight guys (in terms of drugs/alcohol) - blew it with their egos. Make no mistake. That’s what broke Kiss. They couldn’t be satisfied with their success. They had a tried and true formula and they blew it up do to their ego and insecurities.
I have no doubt that Gene and Paul are hard to work with. That doesn't put Ace and Peters addictions on them. It's also no reason to say that Gene and Paul allowed it to happen. Any self medicating is on Ace and Peter.
I think you are missing the point.
No, I'm not.
Some people here are blaming Gene and Paul for Ace and Peters addictions. Some are also saying that Gene and Paul may have let it continue for their own personal gain.
Sorry, I dont believe that.
Yes, people self medicate everyday in all walks of life for varied reasons. Hell, in my profession and personal life I've seen it at its worst. Some can blame their situation, some cant.
In the case of Ace and Peter, I can't put it on Gene and Paul. If we're to believe their own words both had lifestyles that led them in that direction regardless of anything Paul or Gene did. I can't put it on them. You can? Good for you.
Now tell me again what point I've missed, other than not jumping on the Gene and Paul bashing bandwagon that's so prevalent at the FAQ these days. Fucktard.
I am not saying Ace, Peter or even Tommy Shaw have no ownership in their self medicating because of their unhappy/frustrated experience in the bands they are in.
However clearly like someone who has a horrible boss making life unbearable for them in the real world - if Paul and Gene weren't such controlling fucking assholes and made being in KISS more enjoyable, I think the problems in the band would be GREATLY reduced and that includes the self medicating.
Consider this - by all accounts Eric Carr was the nicest guy in the world and even he couldn't take it anymore with Paul to the point that he wasn't talking to him - even when they were on tour together. I guess that is better than self medicating like Ace and Peter, but perhaps if they actually gave Eric what he wanted like they immediately gave to Tommy - being in KISS would have been a better experience for him.
Paul and Gene ARE that horrible fucking boss that make things a daily soul sucking life. Some like Bruce, Eric Singer and Tommy can deal with it simply by being yes men and just doing what the are told. Others like Ace, Peter, Vinnie and Eric Carr couldn't be that. They had their own expectations being in KISS and wanted those reasonable expectations to be met. They were not, because of Paul and Gene. So they dealt with that in the way that they did.
It is not Paul and Gene bashing. It is people just stating reality.
Sorry, but with Ace and Peter, they weren't medicating because of Gene and/or Paul. They were, even admitting it themselves, being the rock stars they were.
Soylent Gene wrote: ↑Sat Jun 12, 2021 11:55 am
Bummer. They should be celebrating almost 50 years of Kisstory not pissing on it. Gene and Paul are miserable human beings. Rich yet miserable.
I think the FAQ ATTAQ squad are miserable human beings, and simply view everything through that prism.
Soylent Gene wrote: ↑Sat Jun 12, 2021 11:55 am
Bummer. They should be celebrating almost 50 years of Kisstory not pissing on it. Gene and Paul are miserable human beings. Rich yet miserable.
I think the FAQ ATTAQ squad are miserable human beings, and simply view everything through that prism.
Don't be silly, venting on a KISS forum hardly qualifies someone as being a miserable human being.
Soylent Gene wrote: ↑Sat Jun 12, 2021 11:55 am
Bummer. They should be celebrating almost 50 years of Kisstory not pissing on it. Gene and Paul are miserable human beings. Rich yet miserable.
I think the FAQ ATTAQ squad are miserable human beings, and simply view everything through that prism.
Don't be silly, venting on a KISS forum hardly qualifies someone as being a miserable human being.
redinthesky wrote: ↑Sun Jun 13, 2021 3:41 pm
The "FAQ ATTAQ" lol I love it. Did the F.A. emerge from the Cult of Tommy or the Ace Avatars, or is it an all-new entity?
Zack Attack may sue for potential infringement, sounds too similar.
Soylent Gene wrote: ↑Sat Jun 12, 2021 11:55 am
Bummer. They should be celebrating almost 50 years of Kisstory not pissing on it. Gene and Paul are miserable human beings. Rich yet miserable.
I think the FAQ ATTAQ squad are miserable human beings, and simply view everything through that prism.
Don't be silly, venting on a KISS forum hardly qualifies someone as being a miserable human being.
Soylent Gene wrote: ↑Sat Jun 12, 2021 11:55 am
Bummer. They should be celebrating almost 50 years of Kisstory not pissing on it. Gene and Paul are miserable human beings. Rich yet miserable.
I think the FAQ ATTAQ squad are miserable human beings, and simply view everything through that prism.
Some may be happier to simply watch the A&E biography on mute. Just watch the footage and don't worry about the rest. The anger ain't gonna change anything, anyway.
To be honest - it would be so cool to have an outsider - someone like trunk or similiar do the narration. I don’t want to hear any band members. The only way I’d like to hear them is the four of them sitting on stools going over their entire history together - no holds barred, looking each other in the eye. Bashing out the bad times - and laughing and smiling about the good times. Id pay big bucks for a Blu-ray of that with a 2nd Blu-ray of live footage throughout the years
Ace & Peter’s addictions did not derail the band. Although that is the narrative Gene & Paul have repeated to the fans for decades. That’s because Gene & Paul don’t want you to know it’s their own fault.
Ya know what derailed the band?
Paul & Gene craving more recognition from Rolling Stone, musical peers & Hollywood. They should have rejected KMTPOTP the second they saw the script. Paul forcing IWMFLY onto Dynasty and turning the fans away in droves. Paul & Gene turning out the turd that is Unmasked. Turning away the rest of the fans with it’s lightweight sound. & finally Gene & Paul 100% tanking the band with the Elder & trusting Ezrin who was totally in the throes of Cocaine addiction at the time.
Gene & Paul - the straight guys (in terms of drugs/alcohol) - blew it with their egos. Make no mistake. That’s what broke Kiss. They couldn’t be satisfied with their success. They had a tried and true formula and they blew it up do to their ego and insecurities.
Shoulda been happy/content with what they had.
I'll disagree with this completely, not just with KISS, but as life advice. Anyone "happy" or "content" with what they have never achieves real success or greatness.
There's a reason Ace is playing car lots and glomming off his girlfriend, and there's a reason Peter complained he lost most of his Reunion fortune by 2001, but Gene and Paul are worth hundreds of millions and still going strong 25 years after the Reunion.
I think Gene and Paul would happily say it's their fault, because in the end, they won.
Does Paul sounds like a man who has “won?”
And wasn’t it proven that Ace bought the house they live in and he put it in his daughter’s name? Enough with the fake BS with him glomming off his gf.
And there’s nothing wrong with being content with what you have. Happiness doesn’t always come from money (more often than not it doesn’t)
The way the world is rigged now with social media everyone is miserable because they feel everyone else has it better.
Your entire reply is ridiculous
Now you've got me curious - when did Ace buy a house and put it in his daughter's name? And how would you even know that? The guy was renting a house for years in San Diego, and the one house he had went into foreclosure. Can't wait to hear this "evidence."
And Ace must want some of Paul's victory, because he was sucking up to him and Gene for the last few years trying to get back into the band. I didn't see Paul groveling to Ace.
Ace wanted another payday - no doubt about it. I don’t dispute that. But to call it “Paul’s victory” is just cringeworthy & asinine
Soylent Gene wrote: ↑Sat Jun 12, 2021 11:55 am
Bummer. They should be celebrating almost 50 years of Kisstory not pissing on it. Gene and Paul are miserable human beings. Rich yet miserable.
I think the FAQ ATTAQ squad are miserable human beings, and simply view everything through that prism.
Don't be silly, venting on a KISS forum hardly qualifies someone as being a miserable human being.
Correct - it means we are emotionally invested in the band and care (or cared) about them as they were a big part of our lives coming up
A lot of us here are hardcore tried and tested fans. Plenty of lifers like myself
This doc is geared towards the casual or newbie (the general consensus here). I wonder when they watch this doc and see all the early footage (hopefully with sound) and compare it to the current look and sound whether that viewer buys into Paul and Gene's claim that Kiss is at their best now and going out on top - and yes I know they're trying to sell their brand
it's what I have been saying for years. Those that don't get it or understand it is either because they weren't there at the time of are just towing the GAP narrative. 
The only drama in KISStory was Eric Carr's illness and passing.
