Will Sixthman now do the KISS Cruise without vaccine proof?

[SpinningAcorn]

Royal Caribbean reverses, won’t require passengers on U.S. cruises to be vaccinated

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/busine ... 09713.html


I would be shocked if Norwegian doesn't follow suit. Who would risk a fine of $5000 each time they ask someone to provide proof of their vaccination?

If Norwegian (and they own Sixthman) cave do you think Paul & Gene would still go ahead? And if so, would they have any close interaction with the fans?

[GACatmandu]

This fact of businesses not being allowed to ask for proof of vaccination status of patrons is just ridiculous. It's in no way wrong for any business or any one working with the public to do everything they can to protect everyone they possibly can.

[battra]

As I am vaxxed, it doesn’t matter to me what others do

I just spent 8 days on vacation in the Deep South, my family was protected, so we didn’t wear masks.

I trust the science. You do what you think is right for you.

[kwf484]

I'm pretty sure it's no one's business who is vacc and who isn't

[TheSpoiler]

I'm pretty sure it's no one's business who is vacc and who isn't

The issue there is that people who have been vaccinated might think "I'm fine now, I can do what I want to" - and what they then become is very very efficient carriers, and the virus runs riot again.

With variants coming from India, Nepal and Vietnam, some up to 40% more transmissible, it would be an act of kindness and basic humanity to remain cautious and protect others.

[kwf484]

I'm pretty sure it's no one's business who is vacc and who isn't

The issue there is that people who have been vaccinated might think "I'm fine now, I can do what I want to" - and what they then become is very very efficient carriers, and the virus runs riot again.

With variants coming from India, Nepal and Vietnam, some up to 40% more transmissible, it would be an act of kindness and basic humanity to remain cautious and protect others.

Don't go on a cruise if you are concerned

[sicksickphil]

This fact of businesses not being allowed to ask for proof of vaccination status of patrons is just ridiculous. It's in no way wrong for any business or any one working with the public to do everything they can to protect everyone they possibly can.

well if you are vaccinated, wouldn't you be safe ?

[sicksickphil]

I'm pretty sure it's no one's business who is vacc and who isn't

The issue there is that people who have been vaccinated might think "I'm fine now, I can do what I want to" - and what they then become is very very efficient carriers, and the virus runs riot again.

With variants coming from India, Nepal and Vietnam, some up to 40% more transmissible, it would be an act of kindness and basic humanity to remain cautious and protect others.

well then don't have the cruise.

[Glasgow Kiss]

I'm pretty sure it's no one's business who is vacc and who isn't

In the medium term it will be for any company that wants to provide a basic duty of care to the remainder of their customers.

It appears one company has broken ranks and decided to take a gamble...what could possibly go wrong there, eh? The Diamond Princess episode last year proved that cruise ships are perfect incubators for outbreaks.

[Spiritual_Chaos]

I'm pretty sure it's no one's business who is vacc and who isn't

The issue there is that people who have been vaccinated might think "I'm fine now, I can do what I want to" - and what they then become is very very efficient carriers, and the virus runs riot again.

With variants coming from India, Nepal and Vietnam, some up to 40% more transmissible, it would be an act of kindness and basic humanity to remain cautious and protect others.

Don't go on a cruise if you are concerned

Don't go on a cruise if you don't care enough about others than yourself, to just get vaccinated. Like a normal person.

[Mean&Dirty]

Who knows?

By October/November the virus and ourselves will be in such a different place we just can’t say

For better or worse of course

[Mean&Dirty]

I'm pretty sure it's no one's business who is vacc and who isn't

The issue there is that people who have been vaccinated might think "I'm fine now, I can do what I want to" - and what they then become is very very efficient carriers, and the virus runs riot again.

With variants coming from India, Nepal and Vietnam, some up to 40% more transmissible, it would be an act of kindness and basic humanity to remain cautious and protect others.

Don't go on a cruise if you are concerned

Don't go on a cruise if you don't care enough about others than yourself, to just get vaccinated. Like a normal person.

Maybe he’s scared of needles

[kwf484]

I'm pretty sure it's no one's business who is vacc and who isn't

In the medium term it will be for any company that wants to provide a basic duty of care to the remainder of their customers.

It appears one company has broken ranks and decided to take a gamble...what could possibly go wrong there, eh? The Diamond Princess episode last year proved that cruise ships are perfect incubators for outbreaks.

HIPPA

[Spiritual_Chaos]

I'm pretty sure it's no one's business who is vacc and who isn't

In the medium term it will be for any company that wants to provide a basic duty of care to the remainder of their customers.

It appears one company has broken ranks and decided to take a gamble...what could possibly go wrong there, eh? The Diamond Princess episode last year proved that cruise ships are perfect incubators for outbreaks.

HIPPA

What would "Hippa" refer to?

[Glasgow Kiss]

I'm pretty sure it's no one's business who is vacc and who isn't

In the medium term it will be for any company that wants to provide a basic duty of care to the remainder of their customers.

It appears one company has broken ranks and decided to take a gamble...what could possibly go wrong there, eh? The Diamond Princess episode last year proved that cruise ships are perfect incubators for outbreaks.

HIPPA

What would "Hippa" refer to?

It's meant to be HIPAA I'm assuming, and doesn't really apply. It's something US-based that limits the amount of access third parties have to health records unless consent is given. The corollary will of course be that if consent isn't given, the third party isn't under any obligation to enter into any transaction with you.

https://www.health.com/condition/infect ... id-vaccine

[TheSpoiler]

I'm pretty sure it's no one's business who is vacc and who isn't

The issue there is that people who have been vaccinated might think "I'm fine now, I can do what I want to" - and what they then become is very very efficient carriers, and the virus runs riot again.

With variants coming from India, Nepal and Vietnam, some up to 40% more transmissible, it would be an act of kindness and basic humanity to remain cautious and protect others.

Don't go on a cruise if you are concerned

The issue isn't with the cruise, the issue is that people with an "I'm fine now, so fuck everyone else" approach are also walking the streets, going in stores etc.

[kwf484]

Of course, federal laws don't apply (US participants)

[ZachAttack]

I'm pretty sure it's no one's business who is vacc and who isn't

The issue there is that people who have been vaccinated might think "I'm fine now, I can do what I want to" - and what they then become is very very efficient carriers, and the virus runs riot again.

With variants coming from India, Nepal and Vietnam, some up to 40% more transmissible, it would be an act of kindness and basic humanity to remain cautious and protect others.

Good lord dude turn off CNN

[TheSpoiler]

I'm pretty sure it's no one's business who is vacc and who isn't

The issue there is that people who have been vaccinated might think "I'm fine now, I can do what I want to" - and what they then become is very very efficient carriers, and the virus runs riot again.

With variants coming from India, Nepal and Vietnam, some up to 40% more transmissible, it would be an act of kindness and basic humanity to remain cautious and protect others.

Good lord dude turn off CNN

Sorry if this offends your sensibilities. I've lost two family members to covid so I tend to lean to the side of caution.

[acesmiddlefinger]

Sixthman have made it pretty clear that they intend to sail and enforce the proof of vaccination to even step foot on the boat. Sadly too many people worldwide will not be fully vaccinated by then so with cut off date for refunds set at 15th June they will not be attending.
This year the Kruise will have the lowest number of international guests ever.

The goalposts are constantly moving here in the UK. The Indian variant is starting to run riot. My town has the highest number of cases per 100,000 people in the UK, even worse than the highly populated big cities. The one saving grace is that hospitalizations are well managed due to our vaccine roll out procedure.

I am not sure I would want to be on a boat during this pandemic. The extra thought of having to wear a mask and the ports that are visited extra restrictions make it very unappealing.

[Kiss-Army-Sergeant]

This fact of businesses not being allowed to ask for proof of vaccination status of patrons is just ridiculous. It's in no way wrong for any business or any one working with the public to do everything they can to protect everyone they possibly can.

well if you are vaccinated, wouldn't you be safe ?

I have a friend who works in the pharmaceutical industry and she tells me that you can still get the virus if vaccinated , but that if you do, your chances of having your ass kicked is minimized, sort of like with the flu vaccine--you can still get the flu if you're vaccinated but you won't get it as badly.

Personally I don't see COVID going away anytime son, but if science has figured out how to keep people from dying from the damn virus, I'm on board with the vaccines.

[Homer Simpson]

This fact of businesses not being allowed to ask for proof of vaccination status of patrons is just ridiculous. It's in no way wrong for any business or any one working with the public to do everything they can to protect everyone they possibly can.

well if you are vaccinated, wouldn't you be safe ?

I have a friend who works in the pharmaceutical industry and she tells me that you can still get the virus if vaccinated , but that if you do, your chances of having your ass kicked is minimized, sort of like with the flu vaccine--you can still get the flu if you're vaccinated but you won't get it as badly.

Personally I don't see COVID going away anytime son, but if science has figured out how to keep people from dying from the damn virus, I'm on board with the vaccines.

You beat me to it. I actually know someone who was vaccinated and ended up with Covid. However, the symptoms were very, very mild.

Also, there are a couple other things to consider. First, even if you are vaccinated, you still may be able to transmit it. (Thus potentially passing it along to people who have not been vaccinated). Second, although the "real world" data suggests the vaccines are pretty effective against some variants, new variants will develop (e.g. the Vietnam variant). There's no way to predict vaccine efficacy against new strains that might arise.

[GACatmandu]

This fact of businesses not being allowed to ask for proof of vaccination status of patrons is just ridiculous. It's in no way wrong for any business or any one working with the public to do everything they can to protect everyone they possibly can.

well if you are vaccinated, wouldn't you be safe ?

Yes, and businesses should have the right to make sure everyone is safe by being able to know everyone they are doing business with are vaccinated.

[CHRIS ARMY]

This fact of businesses not being allowed to ask for proof of vaccination status of patrons is just ridiculous. It's in no way wrong for any business or any one working with the public to do everything they can to protect everyone they possibly can.

It's more ridiculous to force people to get vaccines that they don't want. What gets injected into your body should always be about choice.

[GACatmandu]

This fact of businesses not being allowed to ask for proof of vaccination status of patrons is just ridiculous. It's in no way wrong for any business or any one working with the public to do everything they can to protect everyone they possibly can.

It's more ridiculous to force people to get vaccines that they don't want. What gets injected into your body should always be about choice.

Businesses should have the right not to do business with someone that's not vaccinated, especially on a cruise.

[Ratmir]

Discrimination like that is unconstitutional and it should be.
That said I’m pro vaccination. But you can’t force people to do this.

[scottbassist]

This fact of businesses not being allowed to ask for proof of vaccination status of patrons is just ridiculous. It's in no way wrong for any business or any one working with the public to do everything they can to protect everyone they possibly can.

It's more ridiculous to force people to get vaccines that they don't want. What gets injected into your body should always be about choice.

No one is really “forcing” anyone to get vaccinated. But business owners have a right to protect their customers. If someone with raging chickenpox sores or a rash of shingles sores walked into a restaurant, of course the manager would ask that person to leave. An individual doesn’t have to get vaccinated. But that individual shouldn’t be surprised or offended if someone else views that individual as a health risk. It’s simple math.

[Glasgow Kiss]

Discrimination like that is unconstitutional and it should be.
That said I’m pro vaccination. But you can’t force people to do this.

There's a difference between doing this and discrimination. A company can retain the right to refuse to provide services to anyone they choose, provided that refusal isn't based on certain grounds which obviously will vary from country to country...in most places those will include sex, race, religion, sexual orientation and so on. Refusal to be vaccinated isn't one of those kind of protected characteristics anywhere in the world as far as I'm aware.

You could argue on a fundamental level all law is based on a balancing act between rights and responsibilities. It's absolutely someone's right to refuse a vaccine, although in a wider social context it could also be seen as their responsibility to get one.

Likewise, it's also absolutely the right of a company to refuse to enter into a transaction with them based on what they could well view as the person's perceived irresponsibility and the company's wider responsibilities to the rest of their customers.

[Ratmir]

Discrimination like that is unconstitutional and it should be.
That said I’m pro vaccination. But you can’t force people to do this.

There's a difference between doing this and discrimination. A company can retain the right to refuse to provide services to anyone they choose, provided that refusal isn't based on certain grounds which obviously will vary from country to country...in most places those will include sex, race, religion, sexual orientation and so on. Refusal to be vaccinated isn't one of those kind of protected characteristics anywhere in the world as far as I'm aware.

You could argue on a fundamental level all law is based on a balancing act between rights and responsibilities. It's absolutely someone's right to refuse a vaccine, although in a wider social context it could also be seen as their responsibility to get one.

Likewise, it's also absolutely the right of a company to refuse to enter into a transaction with them based on what they could well view as the person's perceived irresponsibility and the company's wider responsibilities to the rest of their customers.

Well I’m not sure about that. In general what you’re saying is right but I don’t know how it works in relation to medical stuff, because it’s pretty complicated.
I know that in general medical records are private and business don’t have the right to request them or refuse a service based on them. For example a store cannot refuse to sell something to a customer because he’s HIV positive. Or boarding a plane, etc.
I cannot think of a single example where it would be ok to do that.

There are exceptions, like access to public pools for example, but these exceptions are not random at all, they’re regulated.
So I don’t know how it works regarding something like a cruise.

[GACatmandu]

Discrimination like that is unconstitutional and it should be.
That said I’m pro vaccination. But you can’t force people to do this.

There's a difference between doing this and discrimination. A company can retain the right to refuse to provide services to anyone they choose, provided that refusal isn't based on certain grounds which obviously will vary from country to country...in most places those will include sex, race, religion, sexual orientation and so on. Refusal to be vaccinated isn't one of those kind of protected characteristics anywhere in the world as far as I'm aware.

You could argue on a fundamental level all law is based on a balancing act between rights and responsibilities. It's absolutely someone's right to refuse a vaccine, although in a wider social context it could also be seen as their responsibility to get one.

Likewise, it's also absolutely the right of a company to refuse to enter into a transaction with them based on what they could well view as the person's perceived irresponsibility and the company's wider responsibilities to the rest of their customers.

Thank You, you answered that better and more nicely than I would have.

[Glasgow Kiss]

Discrimination like that is unconstitutional and it should be.
That said I’m pro vaccination. But you can’t force people to do this.

There's a difference between doing this and discrimination. A company can retain the right to refuse to provide services to anyone they choose, provided that refusal isn't based on certain grounds which obviously will vary from country to country...in most places those will include sex, race, religion, sexual orientation and so on. Refusal to be vaccinated isn't one of those kind of protected characteristics anywhere in the world as far as I'm aware.

You could argue on a fundamental level all law is based on a balancing act between rights and responsibilities. It's absolutely someone's right to refuse a vaccine, although in a wider social context it could also be seen as their responsibility to get one.

Likewise, it's also absolutely the right of a company to refuse to enter into a transaction with them based on what they could well view as the person's perceived irresponsibility and the company's wider responsibilities to the rest of their customers.

Well I’m not sure about that. In general what you’re saying is right but I don’t know how it works in relation to medical stuff, because it’s pretty complicated.
I know that in general medical records are private and business don’t have the right to request them or refuse a service based on them. For example a store cannot refuse to sell something to a customer because he’s HIV positive. Or boarding a plane, etc.
I cannot think of a single example where it would be ok to do that.

There are exceptions, like access to public pools for example, but these exceptions are not random at all, they’re regulated.
So I don’t know how it works regarding something like a cruise.

There are obvious differences though...living with one disease is not the same as refusing a vaccine for another. In addition, COVID's an airborne disease which is very easy to transmit, while HIV is actually quite a tough one to catch unless someone is choosing to indulge in some pretty specific behaviours.

Even then, there are HIV-specific laws in many countries - not in a sense of criminalising the condition, but more to prevent onward transmission. There are quite a lot of US states - maybe about half? - that legally require anyone who is HIV+ to inform potential sexual partners of the fact in advance of actually doing anything.

[Lung Butter]

Gain-of-function research refers to the serial passaging of microorganisms to increase their transmissibility, virulence, immunogenicity, and host tropism by applying selective pressure to a culture.

[mistermike40]

This fact of businesses not being allowed to ask for proof of vaccination status of patrons is just ridiculous. It's in no way wrong for any business or any one working with the public to do everything they can to protect everyone they possibly can.

well if you are vaccinated, wouldn't you be safe ?

Yes, and businesses should have the right to make sure everyone is safe by being able to know everyone they are doing business with are vaccinated.

So this means a business should be allowed to require you to show proof that you don't have AIDS/aren't HIV-positive, correct? Same with hepatitis and any other serious contagious disease... this allows the business to do "everything they can to protect everyone". Am I following your logic correctly?

[Spiritual_Chaos]

This fact of businesses not being allowed to ask for proof of vaccination status of patrons is just ridiculous. It's in no way wrong for any business or any one working with the public to do everything they can to protect everyone they possibly can.

well if you are vaccinated, wouldn't you be safe ?

Yes, and businesses should have the right to make sure everyone is safe by being able to know everyone they are doing business with are vaccinated.

So this means a business should be allowed to require you to show proof that you don't have AIDS/aren't HIV-positive, correct? Same with hepatitis and any other serious contagious disease... this allows the business to do "everything they can to protect everyone". Am I following your logic correctly?

Please, tell me more about how HIV is transmitted.

[CHRIS ARMY]

The angle that I was referring to is more from the perspective of a company insisting on their employees being vaccinated. The cruise ship companies insisting on who gets on the ship is a different thing. Sorry that I went in a weird direction.

[Forevertj]

I'm pretty sure it's no one's business who is vacc and who isn't

The issue there is that people who have been vaccinated might think "I'm fine now, I can do what I want to" - and what they then become is very very efficient carriers, and the virus runs riot again.

With variants coming from India, Nepal and Vietnam, some up to 40% more transmissible, it would be an act of kindness and basic humanity to remain cautious and protect others.

Don't go on a cruise if you are concerned

Don't go on a cruise if you don't care enough about others than yourself, to just get vaccinated. Like a normal person.

Not wanting to get a vaccine has NOTHING to do with not caring about others.

[battra]

I'm pretty sure it's no one's business who is vacc and who isn't

In the medium term it will be for any company that wants to provide a basic duty of care to the remainder of their customers.

It appears one company has broken ranks and decided to take a gamble...what could possibly go wrong there, eh? The Diamond Princess episode last year proved that cruise ships are perfect incubators for outbreaks.

HIPPA

Just so you knows...

HIPPA doesn't apply to vaccinations.

Hence why kids have to show proof of vaccination for school.

[battra]

I'm pretty sure it's no one's business who is vacc and who isn't

The issue there is that people who have been vaccinated might think "I'm fine, I can do what I want to" - and what they then become is very very efficient carriers, and the virus runs riot again.

With variants coming from India, Nepal and Vietnam, some up to 40% more transmissible, it would be an act of kindness and basic humanity to remain cautious and protect others.

Good lord dude turn off CNN

You know, if you're gonna use a news channel that decieves its viewers...

I'd use the major news network whose viewers are routinely less informed about the news than those who don't consume any news at all.

[Forevertj]

I'm pretty sure it's no one's business who is vacc and who isn't

The issue there is that people who have been vaccinated might think "I'm fine, I can do what I want to" - and what they then become is very very efficient carriers, and the virus runs riot again.

With variants coming from India, Nepal and Vietnam, some up to 40% more transmissible, it would be an act of kindness and basic humanity to remain cautious and protect others.

Good lord dude turn off CNN

You know, if you're gonna use a news channel that decieves its viewers...

I'd use the major news network whose viewers are routinely less informed about the news than those who don't consume any news at all.

Your implication is meritless. 100 percent so.

[battra]

You beat me to it. I actually know someone who was vaccinated and ended up with Covid. However, the symptoms were very, very mild.

Also, there are a couple other things to consider. First, even if you are vaccinated, you still may be able to transmit it. (Thus potentially passing it along to people who have not been vaccinated). Second, although the "real world" data suggests the vaccines are pretty effective against some variants, new variants will develop (e.g. the Vietnam variant). There's no way to predict vaccine efficacy against new strains that might arise.

The original conclusions regarding the vaccine were that you could spread it, however, it's now been determined you cannot.

And they've also concluded the immunity period after getting it is longer than originally thought as well.

What I had been the most worried about was my daughter catching it again. As with MOST kids, her symptoms were quite mild indeed and were it not a pandemic, I'd have assumed it was her normal sicky sicks.

When they said those of us who have been vaxed could take off our masks, I figured, I've said trust the science this long, I'm going to keep doing it.

Hence, our family had a maskless vacation in Florida.

There was a study in my state recently, the pandemic is still raging for the anti-vaxxers, but not for us who've gotten the stick.

It's just natural selection at this point.

[battra]

Discrimination like that is unconstitutional and it should be.
That said I’m pro vaccination. But you can’t force people to do this.

The US Constitution doesn't see the un-vaccinated as a protected class.

Ergo...it's not applicable.

[battra]

I'm pretty sure it's no one's business who is vacc and who isn't

The issue there is that people who have been vaccinated might think "I'm fine, I can do what I want to" - and what they then become is very very efficient carriers, and the virus runs riot again.

With variants coming from India, Nepal and Vietnam, some up to 40% more transmissible, it would be an act of kindness and basic humanity to remain cautious and protect others.

Good lord dude turn off CNN

You know, if you're gonna use a news channel that decieves its viewers...

I'd use the major news network whose viewers are routinely less informed about the news than those who don't consume any news at all.

Your implication is meritless. 100 percent so.

You're 100% right.

My implication in this post is meritless, however, I didn't imply a single thing.

I said there's a major news network whose viewers are routinely found to know less about the current events than the people who don't consume any news media.

This is fact.

Facts don't care about your feelings.

That network isn't CNN.

[Spiritual_Chaos]

I'm pretty sure it's no one's business who is vacc and who isn't

The issue there is that people who have been vaccinated might think "I'm fine now, I can do what I want to" - and what they then become is very very efficient carriers, and the virus runs riot again.

With variants coming from India, Nepal and Vietnam, some up to 40% more transmissible, it would be an act of kindness and basic humanity to remain cautious and protect others.

Don't go on a cruise if you are concerned

Don't go on a cruise if you don't care enough about others than yourself, to just get vaccinated. Like a normal person.

Not wanting to get a vaccine has NOTHING to do with not caring about others.

I feel so sad for you.

[Forevertj]

I'm pretty sure it's no one's business who is vacc and who isn't

The issue there is that people who have been vaccinated might think "I'm fine, I can do what I want to" - and what they then become is very very efficient carriers, and the virus runs riot again.

With variants coming from India, Nepal and Vietnam, some up to 40% more transmissible, it would be an act of kindness and basic humanity to remain cautious and protect others.

Good lord dude turn off CNN

You know, if you're gonna use a news channel that decieves its viewers...

I'd use the major news network whose viewers are routinely less informed about the news than those who don't consume any news at all.

Your implication is meritless. 100 percent so.

You're 100% right.

My implication in this post is meritless, however, I didn't imply a single thing.

I said there's a major news network whose viewers are routinely found to know less about the current events than the people who don't consume any news media.

This is fact.

Facts don't care about your feelings.

That network isn't CNN.

-
Unless that network is MSNBC you are incorrect. The other stations did no lie to us for years Other did and when found to be wrong and lying, failed to offer retractions. This is a fact.

[Forevertj]

I'm pretty sure it's no one's business who is vacc and who isn't

The issue there is that people who have been vaccinated might think "I'm fine now, I can do what I want to" - and what they then become is very very efficient carriers, and the virus runs riot again.

With variants coming from India, Nepal and Vietnam, some up to 40% more transmissible, it would be an act of kindness and basic humanity to remain cautious and protect others.

Don't go on a cruise if you are concerned

Don't go on a cruise if you don't care enough about others than yourself, to just get vaccinated. Like a normal person.

Not wanting to get a vaccine has NOTHING to do with not caring about others.

I feel so sad for you.

don't.

[ZachAttack]

I'm pretty sure it's no one's business who is vacc and who isn't

The issue there is that people who have been vaccinated might think "I'm fine, I can do what I want to" - and what they then become is very very efficient carriers, and the virus runs riot again.

With variants coming from India, Nepal and Vietnam, some up to 40% more transmissible, it would be an act of kindness and basic humanity to remain cautious and protect others.

Good lord dude turn off CNN

You know, if you're gonna use a news channel that decieves its viewers...

I'd use the major news network whose viewers are routinely less informed about the news than those who don't consume any news at all.

So...CNN?

[Forevertj]

Sorry Julien. I am out. I should know better. Seriously, Sorry man.

[Forevertj]

Sorry Batts.

[Forevertj]

The one good thing about not having any money is that I never have to worry about going on a cruise. The only places I want to go to are Greece, Rome, and Egypt. All for historical reasons.

[battra]

-
Unless that network is MSNBC you are incorrect. The other stations did no lie to us for years Other did and when found to be wrong and lying, failed to offer retractions. This is a fact.

So you agree he shouldn't be using CNN as his whipping boy?

But no, I'm not incorrect and it's not MSNBC, though I wouldn't recommend that for one's news consumption either.

I'm no fan of biased news, but at least MSNBC doesn't claim to be anything more than editorial content.