I get the “it’s not worth it” making an album argument

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I get the “it’s not worth it” making an album argument

Post by FiveCardStud »

I just watched this:



And it sort of gave me the epiphany that it really isn’t worth their time doing another album..

Gene is the type of guy who won’t do anything unless it makes money, albums still sold ok in 09 and 12 for them to justify doing it. After watching that video I can see why Gene really doesn’t have much interest in sitting in a studio. Just seems like a big waste of his time.

(I would love another album don’t shoot the messenger)


It’s Gene not Paul saying to not do another album, Paul did SS so he’s obviously happy to be in a studio, Gene has done nothing apart from that song for the vault and that was guaranteed money
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Re: I get the “it’s not worth it” making an album argument

Post by Grand Classic »

I think Gene is far more open to doing a new album over Paul, but Paul calls the shots there because he wants to be in control. So Gene just makes excuses in the media why they haven't done a new album.
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Re: I get the “it’s not worth it” making an album argument

Post by FiveCardStud »

Grand Classic wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 3:23 pm I think Gene is far more open to doing a new album over Paul, but Paul calls the shots there because he wants to be in control. So Gene just makes excuses in the media why they haven't done a new album.
I can’t see why Paul wouldn’t want to make another KISS album if he wants to be in the studio, I mean Paul has always been the most enthusiastic KISS member to be making new music (as seen in the lean years) so why break the habit of a lifetime?

Gene adheres to the time is money mantra more than anyone and he knows a new album wouldn’t do much for the pocket.

A Soul Station album does even less for the pocket, Paul likes money too. Maybe he was rebuffed by a Gene for a new album so went to do SS.

Yes Paul calls the shots but he can’t physically force Gene in the studio
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Re: I get the “it’s not worth it” making an album argument

Post by KingOfHearts89 »

Gene worked with Ace on his last album Spaceman so that can't be the sole reason.
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Re: I get the “it’s not worth it” making an album argument

Post by FiveCardStud »

KingOfHearts89 wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 3:33 pm Gene worked with Ace on his last album Spaceman so that can't be the sole reason.
He wrote some lines from home, gave the bassline for one song and suggested the name “spaceman”. All as a favour for Ace joining the Vault
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Re: I get the “it’s not worth it” making an album argument

Post by CStomp1 »

FiveCardStud wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 3:28 pm
Grand Classic wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 3:23 pm I think Gene is far more open to doing a new album over Paul, but Paul calls the shots there because he wants to be in control. So Gene just makes excuses in the media why they haven't done a new album.
I can’t see why Paul wouldn’t want to make another KISS album if he wants to be in the studio, I mean Paul has always been the most enthusiastic KISS member to be making new music (as seen in the lean years) so why break the habit of a lifetime?

Gene adheres to the time is money mantra more than anyone and he knows a new album wouldn’t do much for the pocket.

A Soul Station album does even less for the pocket, Paul likes money too. Maybe he was rebuffed by a Gene for a new album so went to do SS.

Yes Paul calls the shots but he can’t physically force Gene in the studio
Paul can't sing, and it has to be a major reason driving this. Forget whatever he was able to do with the SS record, I don't think he can handle KISS style music anymore. If he can't be the major vocal focal point in KISS, I don't see him doing it.

Not sure why the video of Gene in the studio for SB led you to your epiphany. Seeing that kind of footage makes me excited for a possible new album, although I don't see it happening again because of Paul's voice. Gene's not the issue here, in my opinion.
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Re: I get the “it’s not worth it” making an album argument

Post by KingOfHearts89 »

FiveCardStud wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 3:38 pm
KingOfHearts89 wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 3:33 pm Gene worked with Ace on his last album Spaceman so that can't be the sole reason.
He wrote some lines from home, gave the bassline for one song and suggested the name “spaceman”. All as a favour for Ace joining the Vault
"“I just shot him an e-mail and said, ‘C’mon, let’s write some songs together for my new record,‘” Frehley told Eddie Trunk. “Next thing you know, he’s down here and within three hours we had written two songs together, which was, like, a record, for me and him. We had a fantastic time... “I don’t remember who came up with the beginning of the song,” says Frehley. “One guy plays one thing and then I play another thing. I think Gene actually came up with more ideas than I did and I just kind of complemented them."

https://www.loudersound.com/news/ace-fr ... ne-simmons
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Re: I get the “it’s not worth it” making an album argument

Post by cowboytoast »

they are creatively bankrupt - that's the main reason no new albums show up - if you "create" you have it in you to do so and live to do that regardless of sales or not - sometimes people dry up -

what i don't get is why KISS doesn't go the Rolling Stones route and stick out a compilation to coincide with every new tour - stick 2 lame new songs on each one - BUT in KISS true fashion make the compilation available in 4 different colors of vinyl (blue, red, green, purple) - the completists would pick up every color @ $40 each and the bucks would roll in - throw in a Walmart "exclusive" splash vinyl version that has an exclusive download of a live version of "Rock n Roll All Night" and they would grab that too -
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Re: I get the “it’s not worth it” making an album argument

Post by joma5477 »

FiveCardStud wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 3:28 pm
I can’t see why Paul wouldn’t want to make another KISS album
3 reasons -

1. Paul can't sing. Plain and simple. He can't sing KISS songs anymore. They tune down to D in concert now (and use tapes. ) That would sound like shit on album and he can't fake singing KISS like he can Soul Station using a thin, hollow falsetto.

2. Paul is the thinnest skinned person on the planet. People shit on the last two KISS albums. Most don't like the shit they manage to come up with now and Paul can't sing it anyhow . Why would he subject his fragile self to more harsh criticism and ridicule?

3. There's no money in it. That's G&P's greatest motivating factor and there isn't any in doing another album.
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Re: I get the “it’s not worth it” making an album argument

Post by socnorb ssik »

I would buy it! Just as I bought all the studio releases. New music is why i listen!
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Re: I get the “it’s not worth it” making an album argument

Post by peterparker78 »

If as rumoured Paul really can't sing right, then he should rest his voice completely or risk destroying it forever. Thought for long time that Kiss were pretty much out of ideas, these days they are performing an updated version of their 1970s' show, the very thing which made them stand out and be successful in the first place. It's one reason many bands only last 3 - 4 albums of success, they run out of ideas & the saying "you have your entire life up that point to write your first album, maybe 6 months or less for the 'difficult' follow up" applies. Mind, it were easy we'd all do it....
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Re: I get the “it’s not worth it” making an album argument

Post by FiveCardStud »

KingOfHearts89 wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 3:45 pm
FiveCardStud wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 3:38 pm
KingOfHearts89 wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 3:33 pm Gene worked with Ace on his last album Spaceman so that can't be the sole reason.
He wrote some lines from home, gave the bassline for one song and suggested the name “spaceman”. All as a favour for Ace joining the Vault
"“I just shot him an e-mail and said, ‘C’mon, let’s write some songs together for my new record,‘” Frehley told Eddie Trunk. “Next thing you know, he’s down here and within three hours we had written two songs together, which was, like, a record, for me and him. We had a fantastic time... “I don’t remember who came up with the beginning of the song,” says Frehley. “One guy plays one thing and then I play another thing. I think Gene actually came up with more ideas than I did and I just kind of complemented them."

https://www.loudersound.com/news/ace-fr ... ne-simmons
Buttering Ace up because of the vault.
Surely if Gene was so interested in making new music he’d of worked on his own projects.

A Gene album would outsell Ace’s x2 and SS but a bit more than that too
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Re: I get the “it’s not worth it” making an album argument

Post by acevog75 »

CStomp1 wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 3:39 pm
FiveCardStud wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 3:28 pm
Grand Classic wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 3:23 pm I think Gene is far more open to doing a new album over Paul, but Paul calls the shots there because he wants to be in control. So Gene just makes excuses in the media why they haven't done a new album.
I can’t see why Paul wouldn’t want to make another KISS album if he wants to be in the studio, I mean Paul has always been the most enthusiastic KISS member to be making new music (as seen in the lean years) so why break the habit of a lifetime?

Gene adheres to the time is money mantra more than anyone and he knows a new album wouldn’t do much for the pocket.

A Soul Station album does even less for the pocket, Paul likes money too. Maybe he was rebuffed by a Gene for a new album so went to do SS.

Yes Paul calls the shots but he can’t physically force Gene in the studio
Paul can't sing, and it has to be a major reason driving this. Forget whatever he was able to do with the SS record, I don't think he can handle KISS style music anymore. If he can't be the major vocal focal point in KISS, I don't see him doing it.

Not sure why the video of Gene in the studio for SB led you to your epiphany. Seeing that kind of footage makes me excited for a possible new album, although I don't see it happening again because of Paul's voice. Gene's not the issue here, in my opinion.
Bingo. I still believe they gave it a shot maybe 5 years ago, if you read interviews with Paul talking about wanting to dona heavy KISS record. I think his voice isn’t up to par in order to do a KISS the way it needs to be done.
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Re: I get the “it’s not worth it” making an album argument

Post by acevog75 »

peterparker78 wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 5:25 pm If as rumoured Paul really can't sing right, then he should rest his voice completely or risk destroying it forever. Thought for long time that Kiss were pretty much out of ideas, these days they are performing an updated version of their 1970s' show, the very thing which made them stand out and be successful in the first place. It's one reason many bands only last 3 - 4 albums of success, they run out of ideas & the saying "you have your entire life up that point to write your first album, maybe 6 months or less for the 'difficult' follow up" applies. Mind, it were easy we'd all do it....
He can rest his voice as long as he wants, it won’t matter. The damage is most likely permanent.
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Re: I get the “it’s not worth it” making an album argument

Post by sabresaxon »

Grand Classic wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 3:23 pm I think Gene is far more open to doing a new album over Paul, but Paul calls the shots there because he wants to be in control. So Gene just makes excuses in the media why they haven't done a new album.
Yes agreed, Gene would do another album for sure if given creative control of KISS. He likes to keep busy and working in the studio is just as good as working on the latest shit merch deal. Plus he's a prolific songwriter so he'd have 5-6 tunes ready to record unlike Paul who needs to be 'inspired'.
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Re: I get the “it’s not worth it” making an album argument

Post by Bruce »

Stan's losing that golden voice of his just bums me right the hell out. But he had to be an asshole with his shouting stupidity nobody asked to hear at 50 years worth of concerts. He misinterpreted his appeal, live -- and witness the results:

Autotune is his constant companion for Soul Station. Lipsynching live with KIϟϟ. Nobody wants to have to accept any of this less than I do. The only consolation I find is the knowing that even if he'd taken care of his voice properly all this time, it would still be noticeably different, today. But, at least, this clamoring for KIϟϟ to release one, last album would make a little more sense than it does, presently.
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Re: I get the “it’s not worth it” making an album argument

Post by SaintN'Sinner83 »

When bands who sell far less than KISS do/would are still regularly putting out music (like Ace...) - KISS, as far as I'm concerned, can shove that excuse up their asses.

If they simply said they didn't want to do new music out of personal choice OR they have nothing left to prove, I'd respect that.

But if you're a band of KISS' stature and making an album isn't going to net you money enough to make it worth your time - maybe you're not as business savvy as you claim to be.
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Re: I get the “it’s not worth it” making an album argument

Post by Philly Cheese »

FiveCardStud wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 3:28 pm
Grand Classic wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 3:23 pm I think Gene is far more open to doing a new album over Paul, but Paul calls the shots there because he wants to be in control. So Gene just makes excuses in the media why they haven't done a new album.
I can’t see why Paul wouldn’t want to make another KISS album if he wants to be in the studio, I mean Paul has always been the most enthusiastic KISS member to be making new music (as seen in the lean years) so why break the habit of a lifetime?

Gene adheres to the time is money mantra more than anyone and he knows a new album wouldn’t do much for the pocket.

A Soul Station album does even less for the pocket, Paul likes money too. Maybe he was rebuffed by a Gene for a new album so went to do SS.

Yes Paul calls the shots but he can’t physically force Gene in the studio
Paul did SS because he enjoys it. I'm not sure why that's so difficult for people to understand. There's no pressure to deal with comparisons to your earlier catalogue or the big story when it doesn't sell. We all have hobbies, and he's fortunate enough to have a very expensive one, but it's easy to see why he's doing it.
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Re: I get the “it’s not worth it” making an album argument

Post by Philly Cheese »

Bruce wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 7:20 pm Stan's losing that golden voice of his just bums me right the hell out. But he had to be an asshole with his shouting stupidity nobody asked to hear at 50 years worth of concerts. He misinterpreted his appeal, live -- and witness the results:

Autotune is his constant companion for Soul Station. Lipsynching live with KIϟϟ. Nobody wants to have to accept any of this less than I do. The only consolation I find is the knowing that even if he'd taken care of his voice properly all this time, it would still be noticeably different, today. But, at least, this clamoring for KIϟϟ to release one, last album would make a little more sense than it does, presently.
Yes. I agree that if Paul hadn't lost his voice, KISS would have recorded several more albums, or at least he would have joy doing it. Sonic Boom and Monster could have been taken to another level, had he been able to do more with his voice. I'm sure it was hell cobbling together the vocal takes to get what was Auto-Tune-Able.

As for why he lost it, there are many factors, but the reality is that he did and because of it we missed out.
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Re: I get the “it’s not worth it” making an album argument

Post by Grand Classic »

Philly Cheese wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 8:14 pm
FiveCardStud wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 3:28 pm
Grand Classic wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 3:23 pm I think Gene is far more open to doing a new album over Paul, but Paul calls the shots there because he wants to be in control. So Gene just makes excuses in the media why they haven't done a new album.
I can’t see why Paul wouldn’t want to make another KISS album if he wants to be in the studio, I mean Paul has always been the most enthusiastic KISS member to be making new music (as seen in the lean years) so why break the habit of a lifetime?

Gene adheres to the time is money mantra more than anyone and he knows a new album wouldn’t do much for the pocket.

A Soul Station album does even less for the pocket, Paul likes money too. Maybe he was rebuffed by a Gene for a new album so went to do SS.

Yes Paul calls the shots but he can’t physically force Gene in the studio
Paul did SS because he enjoys it. I'm not sure why that's so difficult for people to understand. There's no pressure to deal with comparisons to your earlier catalogue or the big story when it doesn't sell. We all have hobbies, and he's fortunate enough to have a very expensive one, but it's easy to see why he's doing it.
It isn't that people don't understand why he did it - it is the fact that the writing was on the wall from the second SS was announced: it would be a spectacular failure and it is. So I hope he got whatever he wanted out of doing it.
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Re: I get the “it’s not worth it” making an album argument

Post by SaintN'Sinner83 »

Philly Cheese wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 8:17 pm Yes. I agree that if Paul hadn't lost his voice, KISS would have recorded several more albums.
Evidence points to no, this would not have happened.

Paul was still a vocal powerhouse until the mid-2000s. Yet, between 1992-2012 - KISS put out a whopping 5 albums in two decades. The put out nothing from 1998-2009.

That's not a hot streak. KISS slowed down in the '90s and never recovered. Even when Paul was still vocally great.
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Re: I get the “it’s not worth it” making an album argument

Post by Bruce »

Philly Cheese wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 8:17 pm As for why he lost it, there are many factors, but the reality is that he did and because of it we missed out.
We surely did! That's the hardest part. And thanks for reading my novella, there. Sometimes, i just gotta type it all out -- and to hell with being succinct!
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Re: I get the “it’s not worth it” making an album argument

Post by TT714 »

If Paul was able to record those tracks that he uses for lip syncing, then he could do another kiss album with studio magic. They just don't want to. If albums made money anymore ,they'd put out an album every year like they did in the 70s and 80s. It's sad that the last ever song kiss records is "Don't touch my ascot". Don't get me wrong, I'm one of the few who like monster and I would love another album, but I don't see it happening, even a new song or two would suffice.
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Re: I get the “it’s not worth it” making an album argument

Post by SaintN'Sinner83 »

TT714 wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 8:56 pmIf albums made money anymore ,they'd put out an album every year like they did in the 70s and 80s.
This needs to stop. Gene and Paul have drilled this into fans' heads and they lap it up.

Alice Cooper.
Judas Priest.
Sparks.
Ace Frehley.
The Pretenders.
Gary Numan.
Asia.

Dozens more. Dozens of acts that have always sold less than KISS - STILL put out new music. Are they losing money? No. They keep doing it - so there must be some money-making.

Fuck, Alice Cooper put out a box set of his new album. He has a record company backing him willing do to coloured vinyl, box set, gatefold...

KISS could do the same.

And albums made money in the '90s. They put out 3 albums then.
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Re: I get the “it’s not worth it” making an album argument

Post by TT714 »

SaintN'Sinner83 wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 9:17 pm
TT714 wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 8:56 pmIf albums made money anymore ,they'd put out an album every year like they did in the 70s and 80s.
This needs to stop. Gene and Paul have drilled this into fans' heads and they lap it up.

Alice Cooper.
Judas Priest.
Sparks.
Ace Frehley.
The Pretenders.
Gary Numan.
Asia.

Dozens more. Dozens of acts that have always sold less than KISS - STILL put out new music. Are they losing money? No. They keep doing it - so there must be some money-making.

Fuck, Alice Cooper put out a box set of his new album. He has a record company backing him willing do to coloured vinyl, box set, gatefold...

KISS could do the same.

And albums made money in the '90s. They put out 3 albums then.
I get what you mean. When I said albums don't make any money, I just meant that not as much as they used to. Gene and Paul would rather focus on touring or more merch cause that's what brings in money these days. And the bands you mentioned I'd say they are all more about music than marketing, unlike kiss. It's not worth putting out another album that people aren't gonna like just like monster and sonic boom, anyway.
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Re: I get the “it’s not worth it” making an album argument

Post by SaintN'Sinner83 »

TT714 wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 9:25 pmIt's not worth putting out another album that people aren't gonna like just like monster and sonic boom, anyway.
Those albums reviewed quite well, though. It's not like they were panned.

But yes, Paul's ego is fragile AF.
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Re: I get the “it’s not worth it” making an album argument

Post by TT714 »

SaintN'Sinner83 wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 9:26 pm
TT714 wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 9:25 pmIt's not worth putting out another album that people aren't gonna like just like monster and sonic boom, anyway.
Those albums reviewed quite well, though. It's not like they were panned.

But yes, Paul's ego is fragile AF.
Yeah, they had great reviews, but it seems like the majority of hardcore kiss fans don't like them. And I think it was Bob Ezrin who said they had bad production? I'm not sure the full story but I know it rubbed Paul the wrong way at the time.
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Re: I get the “it’s not worth it” making an album argument

Post by SaintN'Sinner83 »

TT714 wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 9:29 pmBut it seems like the majority of hardcore kiss fans don't like them. And I think it was Bob Ezrin who said they had bad production?
Not the case, no. People who hate them bitch loudly. People who dig 'em (like me) don't say much.

But after the '70s, only two albums have unanimous fan support, really. (COTN/Revenge).

Bad Production =/= Bad Album.
Hotter Than Hell shows that.
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Re: I get the “it’s not worth it” making an album argument

Post by Grand Classic »

TT714 wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 9:29 pm
SaintN'Sinner83 wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 9:26 pm
TT714 wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 9:25 pmIt's not worth putting out another album that people aren't gonna like just like monster and sonic boom, anyway.
Those albums reviewed quite well, though. It's not like they were panned.

But yes, Paul's ego is fragile AF.
Yeah, they had great reviews, but it seems like the majority of hardcore kiss fans don't like them. And I think it was Bob Ezrin who said they had bad production? I'm not sure the full story but I know it rubbed Paul the wrong way at the time.
Yes - Bob thought Sonic Boom and Monster were absolutely terrible albums and it got back to Paul.
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Re: I get the “it’s not worth it” making an album argument

Post by SaintN'Sinner83 »

Bob, from what was posted about here, said the production on Monster wasn't good. Which isn't untrue.

But, we've not that much details on what exactly was said.

Saying he said anything else is "I want Ezrin to think the same as me so I'm gonna say so."
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Re: I get the “it’s not worth it” making an album argument

Post by jannep17 »

I'm fine with Monster being the last album.
They had a good run, with a majority of the albums being either great or good.
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Re: I get the “it’s not worth it” making an album argument

Post by TT714 »

SaintN'Sinner83 wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 10:26 pm
TT714 wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 9:29 pmBut it seems like the majority of hardcore kiss fans don't like them. And I think it was Bob Ezrin who said they had bad production?
Not the case, no. People who hate them bitch loudly. People who dig 'em (like me) don't say much.

But after the '70s, only two albums have unanimous fan support, really. (COTN/Revenge).

Bad Production =/= Bad Album.
Hotter Than Hell shows that.
Yeah I thought sonic boom and monster were solid albums, if they were made in the 70s people would consider them classics. I do think that the muddy hotter than hell production sounds good though, not as it "sounds" good, but I think that's what makes the album, kinda sounds underground or something.
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Re: I get the “it’s not worth it” making an album argument

Post by B5Erik »

peterparker78 wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 5:25 pm If as rumoured Paul really can't sing right...
As rumored?

Have you not heard him creak, squeak, crack, groan, and gasp his way through shows over the last 15+ years?

The ONLY year he sounded passable was 2014, the big Spider Stage/Def Leppard tour.

It should have been their last. After that his voice reverted to full on shredded mode. Very sad.

It's no rumor, it's well documented with live performances - some the band themselves streamed online!
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Re: I get the “it’s not worth it” making an album argument

Post by B5Erik »

And, YES, Paul knows he can't sing KISS music anymore. Not to album recording standards. Listen to Monster. His voice is shot. He BARELY made it through that album, and on some of the songs, like Long Way Down, he sounds awful - even in the studio with retakes, overdubs, and punch-ins.

I don't know if any of you remember, but about 5 years ago there were stories coming out that they were writing and demoing songs. Both Gene and Paul hinted that maybe they were going to work on something. And then a few months later it was full denial mode - no new music, nothing to see here, move along...

I'm willing to bet that Paul tried, and the results were so horrific that even he had to admit that he couldn't cut it in the studio anymore. I think he knows what a beating he'd take online if they released a new album with his vocals in that state, and he couldn't handle that.
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Re: I get the “it’s not worth it” making an album argument

Post by stutterer »

I think Ace is a musician, but Gene, Paul, Eric and Tommy are performers rather than musicians at this juncture. That's probably why it may be not worth it.
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Re: I get the “it’s not worth it” making an album argument

Post by SaintN'Sinner83 »

stutterer wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 12:30 am I think Ace is a musician.
Ace is no more a musician than the rest.

Ace is just broke and needs money - having a record contract gives him some pay.
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Re: I get the “it’s not worth it” making an album argument

Post by stutterer »

SaintN'Sinner83 wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 12:33 am
stutterer wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 12:30 am I think Ace is a musician.
Ace is no more a musician than the rest.
I see...

Now this can only mean one thing!
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Re: I get the “it’s not worth it” making an album argument

Post by Mad Dog »

FiveCardStud wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 5:39 pm
KingOfHearts89 wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 3:45 pm
FiveCardStud wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 3:38 pm
KingOfHearts89 wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 3:33 pm Gene worked with Ace on his last album Spaceman so that can't be the sole reason.
He wrote some lines from home, gave the bassline for one song and suggested the name “spaceman”. All as a favour for Ace joining the Vault
"“I just shot him an e-mail and said, ‘C’mon, let’s write some songs together for my new record,‘” Frehley told Eddie Trunk. “Next thing you know, he’s down here and within three hours we had written two songs together, which was, like, a record, for me and him. We had a fantastic time... “I don’t remember who came up with the beginning of the song,” says Frehley. “One guy plays one thing and then I play another thing. I think Gene actually came up with more ideas than I did and I just kind of complemented them."

https://www.loudersound.com/news/ace-fr ... ne-simmons
Buttering Ace up because of the vault.
Surely if Gene was so interested in making new music he’d of worked on his own projects.

A Gene album would outsell Ace’s x2 and SS but a bit more than that too
Asshole was a giant flop.
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Re: I get the “it’s not worth it” making an album argument

Post by Put the sex in my ex »

jannep17 wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 11:10 pm I'm fine with Monster being the last album.
They had a good run, with a majority of the albums being either great or good.
Im not fine with Monster being The last album. I wish it never existed... I didnt thought that KISS could sink so low and release something that is pure shit

But I dont want another album and the reason for that is probably the same reasons many others dont care for another album

1. Who wants a Monster part 2?

2. Tommy Thayer sucks

3. Pauls voice is gone

4. No outside writers

5. Paul as a producer is not the best choice
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Re: I get the “it’s not worth it” making an album argument

Post by kwf484 »

KingOfHearts89 wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 3:33 pm Gene worked with Ace on his last album Spaceman so that can't be the sole reason.
I'd say another reason is Paul can't sing....
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Re: I get the “it’s not worth it” making an album argument

Post by I_Gotta_Getaway »

FiveCardStud wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 3:28 pm
Grand Classic wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 3:23 pm I think Gene is far more open to doing a new album over Paul, but Paul calls the shots there because he wants to be in control. So Gene just makes excuses in the media why they haven't done a new album.
I can’t see why Paul wouldn’t want to make another KISS album if he wants to be in the studio, I mean Paul has always been the most enthusiastic KISS member to be making new music (as seen in the lean years) so why break the habit of a lifetime?
Not sure it was Paul's enthusiasm, but KISS were contractually obligated to produce albums in "the lean years", therefore, one album per year in the 80's every fall. They needed the money - probably Paul more than Gene as Gene had other projects besides KISS. In the 80's, they simply delivered what was required by their contract with Polygram.

That said, I do really hope there is more KISS music before it is "over" even if it doesn't come until after the EOTR tour. But, I wouldn't blame any individual member if it does not happen. SS proves that Paul's voice can still deliver in the studio - even if he needs some technological help with his voice. Gene appears to have no such voice issues, so their is no excuse for new Gene tunes.
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Re: I get the “it’s not worth it” making an album argument

Post by TheSpoiler »

Philly Cheese wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 8:14 pm Paul did SS because he enjoys it. I'm not sure why that's so difficult for people to understand. There's no pressure to deal with comparisons to your earlier catalogue or the big story when it doesn't sell. We all have hobbies, and he's fortunate enough to have a very expensive one, but it's easy to see why he's doing it.
Completely agreed. It's a win/win/win for everyone when you think about it - Paul got to do exactly what he wanted, the people who enjoyed it, enjoyed it - and the people who didn't approve got to enjoy gloating about it's "failure". :lol:

Fun for all.
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Re: I get the “it’s not worth it” making an album argument

Post by TheSpoiler »

B5Erik wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 12:00 am And, YES, Paul knows he can't sing KISS music anymore. Not to album recording standards. Listen to Monster. His voice is shot. He BARELY made it through that album, and on some of the songs, like Long Way Down, he sounds awful - even in the studio with retakes, overdubs, and punch-ins.

I don't know if any of you remember, but about 5 years ago there were stories coming out that they were writing and demoing songs. Both Gene and Paul hinted that maybe they were going to work on something. And then a few months later it was full denial mode - no new music, nothing to see here, move along...

I'm willing to bet that Paul tried, and the results were so horrific that even he had to admit that he couldn't cut it in the studio anymore. I think he knows what a beating he'd take online if they released a new album with his vocals in that state, and he couldn't handle that.
If Paul knows his voice is shot, and I'm sure he does, I'd prefer that they don't do any new recordings. End of.

Why wish for someone to put out something that they know isn't going to cut it?
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Re: I get the “it’s not worth it” making an album argument

Post by mbrunn »

Paul and Gene are near / over 70 years old. Do I want a new album? Of course. However, I’m happy they are still around doing whatever they chose to do as far as music is concerned. I can tell you when I’m 70, I’ll be happily retired and do ZERO work. The goal for me is to start that at 60. They have given me far more than I would give. And if I was rich, I’d be retired earlier.

So while I want new music I’m 100% fine with there being none, for whatever the reasons.
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Re: I get the “it’s not worth it” making an album argument

Post by TheSpoiler »

mbrunn wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 4:55 am I can tell you when I’m 70, I’ll be happily retired and do ZERO work. The goal for me is to start that at 60. They have given me far more than I would give. And if I was rich, I’d be retired earlier.
Exactly. If I was as rich as these guys, especially at 70, I'd be poolside by now. They don't owe any of us a damn thing.
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Re: I get the “it’s not worth it” making an album argument

Post by savage_dreams »

regardless of the reasons to make another album or not, what exactly did you get out of that video to supposedly make you "get it"?
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Re: I get the “it’s not worth it” making an album argument

Post by joma5477 »

SaintN'Sinner83 wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 9:17 pm
TT714 wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 8:56 pmIf albums made money anymore ,they'd put out an album every year like they did in the 70s and 80s.
This needs to stop. Gene and Paul have drilled this into fans' heads and they lap it up.

Alice Cooper.
Judas Priest.
Sparks.
Ace Frehley.
The Pretenders.
Gary Numan.
Asia.

Dozens more. Dozens of acts that have always sold less than KISS - STILL put out new music. Are they losing money? No. They keep doing it - so there must be some money-making.

Fuck, Alice Cooper put out a box set of his new album. He has a record company backing him willing do to coloured vinyl, box set, gatefold...

KISS could do the same.

And albums made money in the '90s. They put out 3 albums then.
Not losing money does not equal worth one's while and it's not up to you what one finds worth their time and effort. Nobody ever said G&P would literally lose money making an album. They said there's no money in making albums anymore...no REAL money. It is a fact that most artists don't make anywhere near what they used to on album sales. If they feel whatever they might make selling 50k or 100k albums isn't worth their time, that's their choice, not yours.
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Re: I get the “it’s not worth it” making an album argument

Post by gene therapist »

peterparker78 wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 5:25 pm If as rumoured Paul really can't sing right, then he should rest his voice completely or risk destroying it forever.
:shock:

Paul's voice has been shot for over a decade and it's a fact, not a rumor, that he hasn't been able to pull off Kiss tunes properly in years and years. His vocal cords are destroyed for good.
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Re: I get the “it’s not worth it” making an album argument

Post by peterparker78 »

B5Erik wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 11:56 pm
peterparker78 wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 5:25 pm If as rumoured Paul really can't sing right...
As rumored?

Have you not heard him creak, squeak, crack, groan, and gasp his way through shows over the last 15+ years?

The ONLY year he sounded passable was 2014, the big Spider Stage/Def Leppard tour.

It should have been their last. After that his voice reverted to full on shredded mode. Very sad.

It's no rumor, it's well documented with live performances - some the band themselves streamed online!
I was being kind and not inferring he has had assistance from technology. As someone posted, damage to one's voice is permanent as is hearing damage. I have an ex-DJ mate who always said "if it's too loud, you're too old !", refused to ever wear ear plugs and now he says "eh ? what ?" a lot....
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Re: I get the “it’s not worth it” making an album argument

Post by SaintN'Sinner83 »

Put the sex in my ex wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 2:12 amI wish it never existed... I didnt thought that KISS could sink so low and release something that is pure shit
Have you heard some of their (worse) albums? Come on.
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