Eric Carr and his "insecurities"

[thegraveyardtramp]

RIP poor Eric. I know this is another Eric Carr thread but since he is my fave KISS drummer (and the first I got to see live) I always tend to ponder his work and life at this time.

What a strange experience it must have been for him when he first came into the fold in 1980. He was plucked from obscurity to join one of the biggest bands in the world just as their phenomenal popularity was about to bottom completely out. He got to experience a few weeks of Beatles-like hysteria when he tored Australia soon after joining, then had to wait nearly three years before playing live again, going from sold-out foreign arenas and stadiums to quarter-filled halls in his own homeland. Not forgetting his first experience in the studio with the band resulted in THE ELDER. Then a mere three years later he had to deal with another big change when the band dropped the make-up.

Sure, it beats the heck out of fixing stoves and playing dive bars for weekend chump change, and I'm sure even in 1982/83 Eric would have been receiving a decent fixed salary (at least compared to the average wage at the time), but it still must have been a pretty strange whirlwind for him, with lots of ups and downs. Unlike the original line-up, which started rock bottom and slowly worked their way up the chain in a natural progression.

I wonder where and how the supposed complex of not being an original member started to eat away at him? I mean, it's not like he was hated by the fans - most of them loved him and welcomed him wholeheartedly, even many of the Criss supporters. So he had the fans behind him, and most of the rock press seemed to agree that Carr was by far a more proficient drummer than Criss. And it is Carr's face on the cover of the one KISS album where evrybody automatically thinks, "Drums!" And while KISS never returned to true superstar status during his tenure, he still got to play on some decent selling LPs and tours.

Do you think some of Eric's issues may have stemmed from a lingering regret that he missed out on being a member of KISS during their seventies peak? Is it possible that Paul and Gene tried to pass some of the blame for KISS' fast post-1980 descent on Eric's shoulders, in order to try and save some of their own delicate egos (always easy to blame the new guy rather than yourself). Gene would have hated the fall because to him it meant less money, but to Paul it must have been devestating to see those big crowds suddenly disappear.

Eric enjoying new-found superstardom in Australia, November 1980:

[Tito]

Eric sure liked his coveralls.

[thegraveyardtramp]

Eric sure liked his coveralls.

And his camouflage print. Didn't Paul say in his book that when they bought him a Porsche upon joining the band, Eric asked him if it would be OK if he had it painted in camouflage?

The black leather outfit looks like an early ELDER design!

[Tito]

The black leather outfit looks like an early ELDER design!

Yeah, I thought the same.

[Kisscandinavia]

Paul said in Twitter that Eric was always nice to everyone etc... But I've read that he didn't even talk to Paul during the Crazy nights or Hits era...

[Tito]

Paul said in Twitter that Eric was always nice to everyone etc... But I've read that he didn't even talk to Paul during the Crazy nights or Hits era...

Yes, but this is exactly the kind of thing you don't need to get in the way when remembering someone in public. (Not going to mention Bob Kulick here as people tend to not like that.)

[warmachine731]

Paul said in Twitter that Eric was always nice to everyone etc... But I've read that he didn't even talk to Paul during the Crazy nights or Hits era...

Did they not speak during the CN tour as well? I know for sure the HITS tour was rough. Didnt Paul want the drum solo abandoned or dramatically reduced? Given the way that Gene and Paul are, I can understand where Eric always came from and why he was worried about being replaced. He stepped into a tough role and for someone who felt like they could make band contributions but are time and time again passed over, it doesn’t make things easy.

I haven’t played in a band in about 9 years now and we were just a local Long Island band. But for the 3+ years that I was in the band, my songs were constantly passed over and often ignored. After a while it takes a little bit of a toll. And while gigging was always fun, it wasn’t worth the constant power struggle and guaranteed loss time and time again. So while maybe Eric was insecure, I understand how he felt in that sense.

[Where's Drago?]

Man, he looks like a kid in those 1980 shots. Indeed, what a whirlwind. There were also elements of mania throughout Europe as well, before they even got to Australia. But Australia, along with the scenery and the weather, most have been a different level.

[Vatreni]

Paul said in Twitter that Eric was always nice to everyone etc... But I've read that he didn't even talk to Paul during the Crazy nights or Hits era...

Did they not speak during the CN tour as well? I know for sure the HITS tour was rough. Didnt Paul want the drum solo abandoned or dramatically reduced? Given the way that Gene and Paul are, I can understand where Eric always came from and why he was worried about being replaced. He stepped into a tough role and for someone who felt like they could make band contributions but are time and time again passed over, it doesn’t make things easy.

I haven’t played in a band in about 9 years now and we were just a local Long Island band. But for the 3+ years that I was in the band, my songs were constantly passed over and often ignored. After a while it takes a little bit of a toll. And while gigging was always fun, it wasn’t worth the constant power struggle and guaranteed loss time and time again. So while maybe Eric was insecure, I understand how he felt in that sense.

I think what you describe is a big reason why he probably fell out with Paul.
He comes in, does his job amazingly, is a killer drummer playing in the world's biggest band (At least in Australia and Europe at that point), plays a big part in revitalising Kiss' sound in the early to mid-80's, wants to contribute, wants to be seen as an equal member (I think creatively rather than financially) and probably by the time it got to 1989, felt like he'd proved his worth and wanted a little bit more respect.

[SaintN'Sinner83]

I'm sure Eric was a nice guy - but I've read too much from multiple sources to think he wouldn't have driven me nuts, to some degree.

[Vatreni]

I'm sure Eric was a nice guy - but I've read too much from multiple sources to think he wouldn't have driven me nuts, to some degree.

Who?
Who else apart from Paul Stanley has gone on record saying Eric Carr was difficult to be around and be in a band with?

[DubaiRockCity]

No one. But I don’t doubt dealing with prissy Paul ramped up his insecurities. Paul talks in his books about messing with him because he wasn’t used to going to nice restaurants etc. Paul forgets that he was in exactly the same position himself just five years earlier. If anything Eric was better off than Paul was when they were the same age.

[SaintN'Sinner83]

I'm sure Eric was a nice guy - but I've read too much from multiple sources to think he wouldn't have driven me nuts, to some degree.

Who?
Who else apart from Paul Stanley has gone on record saying Eric Carr was difficult to be around and be in a band with?

Bruce has discussed Eric needing constant reassurance and was chronically insecure, for one. His ex did a bit, too. A member on here who worked with KISS in the late '80s also had a lot to say about it.

Just watch the Exposed II footage on YouTube - watch everyone's body language around Eric. Gene even cops to giving Eric stuff to do to keep him busy.

[SaintN'Sinner83]

KISS fans are way too sensitive if someone even slightly denies that Eric Carr was a perfect guy.

He was human, guys. It's okay that he was flawed.

[Grand Classic]

I don' think Eric was really ever treated like a true member of the band. I think he probably assumed that like the original band, he would have a song on each album at some point.

I don't think he would have had such insecurities, if they treated Eric like they do Tommy and allowing him to write songs AND sing immediately on new albums.

I can understand how being in KISS would not be a fulfilling experience if you are looking to contribute with song ideas and having Paul and Gene basically say that we will call you when we need you to do the drums...if we don't decide to use a drum machine.

[shupey]

Always thought Eric and Jason Newsted had a lot in common in how they were treated when coming into an established band. Neither were treated as a "member" of the band and both had a larger than life specter hanging over them from the member they were replacing.

[Soylent Gene]

Eric sure liked his coveralls.

And his camouflage print. Didn't Paul say in his book that when they bought him a Porsche upon joining the band, Eric asked him if it would be OK if he had it painted in camouflage?

The black leather outfit looks like an early ELDER design!

Why did Eric have to ask Paul if he could paint his own car?? I know they bought it for him but it was his fucking car now. What’s up with that??

[SaintN'Sinner83]

Eric sure liked his coveralls.

And his camouflage print. Didn't Paul say in his book that when they bought him a Porsche upon joining the band, Eric asked him if it would be OK if he had it painted in camouflage?

The black leather outfit looks like an early ELDER design!

Why did Eric have to ask Paul if he could paint his own car?? I know they bought it for him but it was his fucking car now. What’s up with that??

1.) The car could've been the same deal as a 'company car'. It's his car...but sort of.
2.) Eric could've been asking the way that people ask "Hey, think it'd be a bad idea if I painted my house pink?" rather than asking permission.

[sneed78]

Paul’s insecurities amped up Eric’s insecurities...

[Soylent Gene]

Eric sure liked his coveralls.

And his camouflage print. Didn't Paul say in his book that when they bought him a Porsche upon joining the band, Eric asked him if it would be OK if he had it painted in camouflage?

The black leather outfit looks like an early ELDER design!

Why did Eric have to ask Paul if he could paint his own car?? I know they bought it for him but it was his fucking car now. What’s up with that??

1.) The car could've been the same deal as a 'company car'. It's his car...but sort of.
2.) Eric could've been asking the way that people ask "Hey, think it'd be a bad idea if I painted my house pink?" rather than asking permission.

That sounds more plausible than asking permission to paint his own car.

[SaintN'Sinner83]

Paul’s insecurities amped up Eric’s insecurities...

Eric was an adult, too. Each are responsible for their own BS.

[DOUBLE DYNASTY]

Eric sure liked his coveralls.

I don't recall Eric using cowbell all that much.

[doombies]

Eric sure liked his coveralls.

I don't recall Eric using cowbell all that much.

Coverall.


Not cowbell

[shandi777]

The only thing I really know about Eric is watching him play drums on Animalize Uncensored video....he was a beast. That's enough for me.

[Grand Classic]

Paul’s insecurities amped up Eric’s insecurities...

Eric was an adult, too. Each are responsible for their own BS.

I am willing to bet it was more a Paul problem than an Eric problem. I don't recall hearing Gene having any issue with Eric and by all accounts Eric was the nicest guy. I am sure his frustrations were valid.

It's like people wondering for decades - how the hell could Eddie and Alex have a problem with their nicest guy - Michael Anthony? Answer: Eddie and Alex were the problem.

[sneed78]

Paul’s insecurities amped up Eric’s insecurities...

Eric was an adult, too. Each are responsible for their own BS.

I am willing to bet it was more a Paul problem than an Eric problem. I don't recall hearing Gene having any issue with Eric and by all accounts Eric was the nicest guy. I am sure his frustrations were valid.

It like people wondering for decades - how the hell could Eddie and Alex have a problem with their nicest guy - Michael Anthony? Answer: Eddie and Alex were the problem.

VH is a perfect analogy.

Paul was definitely the issue, not Gene. Eric was obviously an insecure guy, but Paul’s insecurities with regards to another member “upstaging” him (Peter-Beth/Ace-NYG) definitely trickled down to Eric when he was continually denied at least one song/lead vocal per album (until ‘89 when Gene pushed for Little Caesar... Beth doesn’t count obviously cause that was just Paul excluding Peter and Carr didn’t write it anyway).

[Grand Classic]

Paul’s insecurities amped up Eric’s insecurities...

Eric was an adult, too. Each are responsible for their own BS.

I am willing to bet it was more a Paul problem than an Eric problem. I don't recall hearing Gene having any issue with Eric and by all accounts Eric was the nicest guy. I am sure his frustrations were valid.

It like people wondering for decades - how the hell could Eddie and Alex have a problem with their nicest guy - Michael Anthony? Answer: Eddie and Alex were the problem.

VH is a perfect analogy.

Paul was definitely the issue, not Gene. Eric was obviously an insecure guy, but Paul’s insecurities with regards to another member “upstaging” him (Peter-Beth/Ace-NYG) definitely trickled down to Eric when he was continually denied at least one song/lead vocal per album (until ‘89 when Gene pushed for Little Caesar... Beth doesn’t count obviously cause that was just Paul excluding Peter and Carr didn’t write it anyway).

I have to agree with this. If KISS were going to have any hits, they were gonna be HIS songs, especially as KISS became more the Paul Stanley band in the 80's.

I mean Paul was pissed off that Unholy was going to be the first single for Revenge. If it had become some huge song like something from Metallica, it would literally kill him. He has a hard time understanding that a win is a win. For him, a win has to come from him.

[Tito]

Eric sure liked his coveralls.

I don't recall Eric using cowbell all that much.

Maybe Eric had too much respect for the cowbell. That must be the main reason they never did "Nothin' To Lose" or "Ladies Room" while he was in the band.

I mean Paul was pissed off that Unholy was going to be the first single for Revenge. If it had become some huge song like something from Metallica, it would literally kill him. He has a hard time understanding that a win is a win. For him, a win has to come from him.

Day by day, kickin' all the way, he's not cavin' in.

[TheSphinx]

I mean Paul was pissed off that Unholy was going to be the first single for Revenge. If it had become some huge song like something from Metallica, it would literally kill him. He has a hard time understanding that a win is a win. For him, a win has to come from him.

Paul was so upset he even said during some interviews that UNHOLY wasn't the first single.....it was the first video and it wasn't released as a single.

[Glasgow Kiss]

From what I've heard, the fact that he wasn't a founding member always seemed to prey on his mind - a couple of things that also probably didn't help were that he joined them just at the moment they were plummeting in popularity and even that the makeup came off just a few years into his tenure not really giving his Fox character any proper chance to develop.

In reality he was a lot more accepted - and loved - than probably he ever understood, which is a real shame. Some people are just wired to be insecure though, and unfortunately perhaps Eric was one of them.

[thegraveyardtramp]

I also heard Eric was a pretty regular pot smoker, which if true could have contributed to his insecurities and paranoia.

[thegraveyardtramp]

Eric sure liked his coveralls.

And his camouflage print. Didn't Paul say in his book that when they bought him a Porsche upon joining the band, Eric asked him if it would be OK if he had it painted in camouflage?

The black leather outfit looks like an early ELDER design!

Why did Eric have to ask Paul if he could paint his own car?? I know they bought it for him but it was his fucking car now. What’s up with that??

1.) The car could've been the same deal as a 'company car'. It's his car...but sort of.
2.) Eric could've been asking the way that people ask "Hey, think it'd be a bad idea if I painted my house pink?" rather than asking permission.

That sounds more plausible than asking permission to paint his own car.

Looking back over what Paul said, when Eric asked him "Do you think it would be OK if I painted it camouflage?", Paul said he replied "Absolutely not". Paul explained in his book: "I didn't think he should take a sleek imported sports car and turn it into a circus mobile".

He talks about here at around the 3:30 mark:

[richardsimmons]

Thanks for posting. Love these photos, especially the first one.

[KISSFACE]

I don't think he would have had such insecurities, if they treated Eric like they do Tommy and allowing him to write songs AND sing immediately on new albums.

Maybe they learned a thing or two, maybe they had cause to reconsider their ways after what happened to Eric. In 1992, i definitely noticed how they changed up their PR tactics and tried to return to presenting KISS as a foursome for the magazine cover shoots and in tv appearances over the next 3 years.

[Grand Classic]

I don't think he would have had such insecurities, if they treated Eric like they do Tommy and allowing him to write songs AND sing immediately on new albums.

Maybe they learned a thing or two, maybe they had cause to reconsider their ways after what happened to Eric. In 1992, i definitely noticed how they changed up their PR tactics and tried to return to presenting KISS as a foursome for the magazine cover shoots and in tv appearances over the next 3 years.

I think that is more about them pretending that Ace and Peter are still in the band per the original band factor. That it's 4 stars again. So both Eric and Tommy got to sing songs on the albums, etc.

[DubaiRockCity]

Confetti.

[Somebody Backstage]

It's sad that the Porsche Gene & Paul bought for him was the most basic, no frills, stripped-down model. Very telling. It's like buying the cheapest Gibson just because it's a Gibson, when you could get a much better Epiphone for less money.

[TheSphinx]

It's sad that the Porsche Gene & Paul bought for him was the most basic, no frills, stripped-down model. Very telling. It's like buying the cheapest Gibson just because it's a Gibson, when you could get a much better Epiphone for less money.

It was a 924 model. The MSRP when it came out was around $20,000
It would be like paying $63,000 today


The best equivalent today would be if they bought him a 2021 718 Boxster.... which is around $63,000

https://www.caranddriver.com/porsche/718-boxster


But 924's had a ton of mechanical problems etc. I can't believe Eric still had that car when he passed.

[Stav.karas]

RIP poor Eric. I know this is another Eric Carr thread but since he is my fave KISS drummer (and the first I got to see live) I always tend to ponder his work and life at this time.

What a strange experience it must have been for him when he first came into the fold in 1980. He was plucked from obscurity to join one of the biggest bands in the world just as their phenomenal popularity was about to bottom completely out. He got to experience a few weeks of Beatles-like hysteria when he tored Australia soon after joining, then had to wait nearly three years before playing live again, going from sold-out foreign arenas and stadiums to quarter-filled halls in his own homeland. Not forgetting his first experience in the studio with the band resulted in THE ELDER. Then a mere three years later he had to deal with another big change when the band dropped the make-up.

Sure, it beats the heck out of fixing stoves and playing dive bars for weekend chump change, and I'm sure even in 1982/83 Eric would have been receiving a decent fixed salary (at least compared to the average wage at the time), but it still must have been a pretty strange whirlwind for him, with lots of ups and downs. Unlike the original line-up, which started rock bottom and slowly worked their way up the chain in a natural progression.

I wonder where and how the supposed complex of not being an original member started to eat away at him? I mean, it's not like he was hated by the fans - most of them loved him and welcomed him wholeheartedly, even many of the Criss supporters. So he had the fans behind him, and most of the rock press seemed to agree that Carr was by far a more proficient drummer than Criss. And it is Carr's face on the cover of the one KISS album where evrybody automatically thinks, "Drums!" And while KISS never returned to true superstar status during his tenure, he still got to play on some decent selling LPs and tours.

Do you think some of Eric's issues may have stemmed from a lingering regret that he missed out on being a member of KISS during their seventies peak? Is it possible that Paul and Gene tried to pass some of the blame for KISS' fast post-1980 descent on Eric's shoulders, in order to try and save some of their own delicate egos (always easy to blame the new guy rather than yourself). Gene would have hated the fall because to him it meant less money, but to Paul it must have been devestating to see those big crowds suddenly disappear.

Eric enjoying new-found superstardom in Australia, November 1980:

I think Eric was just generally a troubled guy, and KISS happened to be the thing happening in his life, and his already existing susceptibility to insecurity just latched onto his career with KISS.