Gene Simmons vs Jaco Pastorius

Fartbone · Post by **Fartbone** » Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:12 am

Who is the better bass player.

In the Suds · Post by **In the Suds** » Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:18 am

Gene was voted three times faster and more melodic. I can't remember the organization but I think it was Julliard.

KrazySwede · Post by **KrazySwede** » Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:24 am

This is KISSFaq alright....

Fartbone · Post by **Fartbone** » Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:31 am

In the Suds wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:18 am Gene was voted three times faster and more melodic. I can't remember the organization but I think it was Julliard.

Certified by the Smithsonian even.

acevog75 · Post by **acevog75** » Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:33 am

Perhaps it should’ve been “who’s the better bass player, BUT who’s music would you rather listen to?

I know who the better bass player is, but I also know what person’s music I’d most rather listen to.

mistermike40 · Post by **mistermike40** » Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:35 am

I'm waiting for the "Peter Criss vs Neil Peart - who's the better drummer/songwriter?" poll...

Fartbone · Post by **Fartbone** » Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:38 am

mistermike40 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:35 am I'm waiting for the "Peter Criss vs Neil Peart - who's the better drummer/songwriter?" poll...

That's after the Paul verses Freddie Mercury poll.

mistermike40 · Post by **mistermike40** » Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:41 am

Fartbone wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:38 am
mistermike40 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:35 am I'm waiting for the "Peter Criss vs Neil Peart - who's the better drummer/songwriter?" poll...
That's after the Paul verses Freddie Mercury poll.

That's another tossup, could go either way...

joma5477 · Post by **joma5477** » Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:50 am

acevog75 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:33 am Perhaps it should’ve been “who’s the better bass player, BUT who’s music would you rather listen to?

I know who the better bass player is, but I also know what person’s music I’d most rather listen to.

Agreed. And to be fair, the thread being mocked here didn't say 'who is the better guitar player?' It didn't actually specify what exactly it was asking... Depending on the question, I very well might choose Vinnie over EVH. If the question was would you rather listen to Creatures and/or Lick It Up vs any VH album(s), I would choose Vinnie every day of the week even though EVH was a better guitarist. I don't love VH's music... Sorry, not sorry. Same with Gene v Jaco...I'd rather listen to 99% of Gene's work than 99% of Jaco's. Well, maybe it's a good deal less than 99% if were including 20 years of Cold Gin tours...

In the Suds · Post by **In the Suds** » Mon Nov 23, 2020 12:06 pm

joma5477 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:50 am
acevog75 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:33 am Perhaps it should’ve been “who’s the better bass player, BUT who’s music would you rather listen to?

I know who the better bass player is, but I also know what person’s music I’d most rather listen to.
Agreed. And to be fair, the thread being mocked here didn't say 'who is the better guitar player?' It didn't actually specify what exactly it was asking... Depending on the question, I very well might choose Vinnie over EVH. If the question was would you rather listen to Creatures and/or Lick It Up vs any VH album(s), I would choose Vinnie every day of the week even though EVH was a better guitarist. I don't love VH's music... Sorry, not sorry. Same with Gene v Jaco...I'd rather listen to 99% of Gene's work than 99% of Jaco's. Well, maybe it's a good deal less than 99% if were including 20 years of Cold Gin tours...

That's the most annoying thing about it. The OP kept changing the topic and refused to clarify.

joma5477 · Post by **joma5477** » Mon Nov 23, 2020 12:35 pm

In the Suds wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 12:06 pm
That's the most annoying thing about it. The OP kept changing the topic and refused to clarify.

Fair enough.

Tito · Post by **Tito** » Mon Nov 23, 2020 12:42 pm

Totally Gene. I once asked a guy who knew somebody who played bass and they said so.

Spaceace2000ric · Post by **Spaceace2000ric** » Mon Nov 23, 2020 2:23 pm

It’s a tough one, before I make my decision I want to know...who has the longest tongue and who spits blood the best?

Nately120 · Post by **Nately120** » Mon Nov 23, 2020 2:41 pm

I'd say they are about equal, assuming both are being ghost-replaced by Paul, Eric, Ace, or Jean Buruarviour.

dicksteel · Post by **dicksteel** » Mon Nov 23, 2020 2:44 pm

The poll question is clear. It is not asking who you would rather listen to, or who has more enjoyable music. The question is flatly, who is the better bass player.

And that bass player is clearly Gene Simmons.

TheSpoiler · Post by **TheSpoiler** » Mon Nov 23, 2020 3:50 pm

Fartbone wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:12 am Who is the better bass player.

"IS"? In 2020? Simmons.

KISS#1 · Post by **KISS#1** » Mon Nov 23, 2020 4:03 pm

Who is Jaco Pastorius?

joma5477 · Post by **joma5477** » Mon Nov 23, 2020 4:06 pm

TheSpoiler wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 3:50 pm
Fartbone wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:12 am Who is the better bass player.
"IS"? In 2020? Simmons.

Sadly, same thing applies in the EVH thread, but probably too soon to pull that card...

In the Suds · Post by **In the Suds** » Mon Nov 23, 2020 4:14 pm

joma5477 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 4:06 pm
TheSpoiler wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 3:50 pm
Fartbone wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:12 am Who is the better bass player.
"IS"? In 2020? Simmons.

Sadly, same thing applies in the EVH thread, but probably too soon to pull that card...

Not when there's no evidence VV can currently play guitar it doesn't.

metaldad · Post by **metaldad** » Mon Nov 23, 2020 4:16 pm

This is as good as VV vs EVH

I laughingly see Gene winning this because most here don’t have a clue as to who the Opponent is

In the Suds · Post by **In the Suds** » Mon Nov 23, 2020 4:31 pm

vs

Tito · Post by **Tito** » Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:24 pm

metaldad wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 4:16 pm This is as good as VV vs EVH
I laughingly see Gene winning this because most here don’t have a clue as to who the Opponent is

I laughingly see you assume people are being serious.

lock24lock24 · Post by **lock24lock24** » Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:50 pm

I assume many aren't too serious about this poll, but as a bass player myself and a very big fan of both bassists since a while back (Gene inspired me to start playing bass at the age of 12, while Jaco/Stanley Clarke etc. elevated my playing 3 years later) I have to vote seriously.
I find Gene to be a good bass player, especially in the 70's I like his fluent bass style. And his musical output is very good too. I think he is better than most Rock bass players (of course there are exceptions, such as as many Prog guys, Entwistle, Billy Sheenan, Steve Harris...)
I like his writing (yes, even the 80's stuff) and as a showman he has few, if any, peers.

Jaco, however, is on another level entirely when it comes to either technique, melodic playing or bass grooves.
I even prefer his music (love his solo stuff and Weather Report is in my typ 3 artists of all time).
Apart from that, he became a good showman after his first year in WR (the clip above from Montreux shorly after he joined, so that's not a good example).

So as a bass player, which the thread is about afterall, Jaco by a mile
The clip below is an example why:

KISSTRONAUT · Post by **KISSTRONAUT** » Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:52 pm

Fartbone wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:12 am Who is the better bass player.

Currently Gene.

stutterer · Post by **stutterer** » Tue Nov 24, 2020 12:27 am

I'm voting for a familiar candidate!!

banks · Post by **banks** » Tue Nov 24, 2020 1:54 am

Those of you who say that Jaco was a better player, but you'd rather listen to Gene's music....Are you talking about personal tastes or are you implying that Gene is a better writer?

lock24lock24 · Post by **lock24lock24** » Tue Nov 24, 2020 2:37 am

KISSTRONAUT wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:52 pm
Fartbone wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:12 am Who is the better bass player.
Currently Gene.

Can't argue with the facts. A case could perhaps be made for Gene in this poll, since he has been the superior bass player for a longer period of time.
Jaco was better from, say 1970-1987, but since then Gene has clearly been better in every way.

metaldad · Post by **metaldad** » Tue Nov 24, 2020 5:42 am

Tito wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:24 pm
metaldad wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 4:16 pm This is as good as VV vs EVH
I laughingly see Gene winning this because most here don’t have a clue as to who the Opponent is
I laughingly see you assume people are being serious.

Some here ?
Absolutely

wjs296 · Post by **wjs296** » Tue Nov 24, 2020 5:43 am

I see Gene as a better bass player for Kiss, overall though I don't think it is close. Jaco had incredible chops. Jazz is not my thing, but I respect the talent.

Hi I'm Witz · Post by **Hi I'm Witz** » Tue Nov 24, 2020 6:02 am

KISSTRONAUT wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:52 pm
Fartbone wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:12 am Who is the better bass player.
Currently Gene.

LMAO!!!

Hi I'm Witz · Post by **Hi I'm Witz** » Tue Nov 24, 2020 6:05 am

In truth, Jaco was and always will be a better bass player than Gene technically. But I never liked his playing style at all. I hated his quiet, noodling all over the frets approach. I much prefer the bass to serve as a solid, thumping foundation to the song and as a musical "thickener" to the song (for a more recent example, check out Cliff William's playing on the new AC/DC album. Now THAT's a bass player!) I suppose Jaco's playing style served the type of music he played well. However I am not a fan of Jazz music in the slightest (except Jazz Christmas music, oddly).

Zorro8 · Post by **Zorro8** » Tue Nov 24, 2020 6:37 am

On this board Gene would even win when you put him against the best bass player ever.

Oh wait...

Goodwilltowardsall · Post by **Goodwilltowardsall** » Tue Nov 24, 2020 6:51 am

This is like asking who was the best better bass player Sid Vicious or Paul McCartney. Sid was perfect the Sex Pistols as Gene is for KISS. I don't think Joni Mitchell would hire Gene to play on her music.

Tito · Post by **Tito** » Tue Nov 24, 2020 7:24 am

Goodwilltowardsall wrote: ↑Tue Nov 24, 2020 6:51 am Sid was perfect the Sex Pistols as Gene is for KISS.

The guy who wasn't even plugged it at gigs was perfect? Sid Vicious was 100% image 0% musicianship. Glen Matlock was perfect for the Sex Pistols. He could actually play. Oh, and he wrote the songs too.

nilzzz · Post by **nilzzz** » Tue Nov 24, 2020 7:32 am

Jaco Pastorius was incredible. And probably one of the best bass players ever. As a musician easily Jaco. But you can't really compare them.

richardsimmons · Post by **richardsimmons** » Tue Nov 24, 2020 7:57 am

KISS#1 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 4:03 pm Who is Jaco Pastorius?

Hands up if ya googled this dude.

I did, & then voted Gene.

Going Blind · Post by **Going Blind** » Tue Nov 24, 2020 8:18 am

Tito wrote: ↑Tue Nov 24, 2020 7:24 am
Goodwilltowardsall wrote: ↑Tue Nov 24, 2020 6:51 am Sid was perfect the Sex Pistols as Gene is for KISS.
The guy who wasn't even plugged it at gigs was perfect? Sid Vicious was 100% image 0% musicianship. Glen Matlock was perfect for the Sex Pistols. He could actually play. Oh, and he wrote the songs too.

Apparently Matlock was kicked out of the Pistols because he liked The Beatles. Horrendous mistake.

banks · Post by **banks** » Tue Nov 24, 2020 10:03 am

Hi I'm Witz wrote: ↑Tue Nov 24, 2020 6:05 am In truth, Jaco was and always will be a better bass player than Gene technically. But I never liked his playing style at all. I hated his quiet, noodling all over the frets approach. I much prefer the bass to serve as a solid, thumping foundation to the song and as a musical "thickener" to the song (for a more recent example, check out Cliff William's playing on the new AC/DC album. Now THAT's a bass player!) I suppose Jaco's playing style served the type of music he played well. However I am not a fan of Jazz music in the slightest (except Jazz Christmas music, oddly).

I'm not a huge Pastorious fan, but I hate it when rock fans bash these people without knowing anything about them, just because they've HEARD they're great players. You bash him too, but at least you know what you're talking about!

kissprofessor · Post by **kissprofessor** » Tue Nov 24, 2020 10:13 am

This is hilarious!

In the Suds · Post by **In the Suds** » Tue Nov 24, 2020 1:22 pm

Goodwilltowardsall wrote: ↑Tue Nov 24, 2020 6:51 am This is like asking who was the best better bass player Sid Vicious or Paul McCartney. Sid was perfect the Sex Pistols as Gene is for KISS. I don't think Joni Mitchell would hire Gene to play on her music.

I saw Jaco with Joni. Forest Hill Stadium, Queens, NY 1979. One of my first concerts. Also in the band were Don Alias, Michael Brecker, Lyle Mays, and Pat Metheny. I had no idea who any of them were at the time, and Joni wasn't really my thing anyway, but my brother had an extra ticket so I went... and needless to say it was an incredible show. Seeing Jaco do his mind-blowing solo spot is one of my most indelible concert memories.

highvoltage1969 · Post by **highvoltage1969** » Tue Nov 24, 2020 1:32 pm

Tito wrote: ↑Tue Nov 24, 2020 7:24 am
Goodwilltowardsall wrote: ↑Tue Nov 24, 2020 6:51 am Sid was perfect the Sex Pistols as Gene is for KISS.
The guy who wasn't even plugged it at gigs was perfect? Sid Vicious was 100% image 0% musicianship. Glen Matlock was perfect for the Sex Pistols. He could actually play. Oh, and he wrote the songs too.

Yup, he did look great though. Poor old Glen, he was quite square, the other guys gave him a hard time.

There's some great stuff from Lemmy talking about how he tried to teach Sid to play bass:

"Johnny Rotten used to go and see Hawkwind play. I remember him turning up in his long hair and great coat at London gigs. Sid Vicious lived in my flat for a couple of months and I tried to teach him bass but he was hopeless. One day he came rushing into the flat all excited saying ”Lemmy I got the job with the Sex Pistols’ and I said ”Great, as part of the road crew’ and I laughed ”You can’t even play the bass, you’re hopeless’.

Vandelay Industries · Post by **Vandelay Industries** » Tue Nov 24, 2020 2:36 pm

Pastorius, well that's a big word like gymnasium, so it's pretty obvious.

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Tue Nov 24, 2020 2:38 pm

My loyalties lie with Gene Simmons.

Goodwilltowardsall · Post by **Goodwilltowardsall** » Tue Nov 24, 2020 4:38 pm

In the Suds wrote: ↑Tue Nov 24, 2020 1:22 pm
Goodwilltowardsall wrote: ↑Tue Nov 24, 2020 6:51 am This is like asking who was the best better bass player Sid Vicious or Paul McCartney. Sid was perfect the Sex Pistols as Gene is for KISS. I don't think Joni Mitchell would hire Gene to play on her music.
I saw Jaco with Joni. Forest Hill Stadium, Queens, NY 1979. One of my first concerts. Also in the band were Don Alias, Michael Brecker, Lyle Mays, and Pat Metheny. I had no idea who any of them were at the time, and Joni wasn't really my thing anyway, but my brother had an extra ticket so I went... and needless to say it was an incredible show. Seeing Jaco do his mind-blowing solo spot is one of my most indelible concert memories.

That would have been great! You are fortunate.

TheSpoiler · Post by **TheSpoiler** » Tue Nov 24, 2020 4:42 pm

In the Suds wrote: ↑Tue Nov 24, 2020 1:22 pm
Goodwilltowardsall wrote: ↑Tue Nov 24, 2020 6:51 am This is like asking who was the best better bass player Sid Vicious or Paul McCartney. Sid was perfect the Sex Pistols as Gene is for KISS. I don't think Joni Mitchell would hire Gene to play on her music.
I saw Jaco with Joni. Forest Hill Stadium, Queens, NY 1979. One of my first concerts. Also in the band were Don Alias, Michael Brecker, Lyle Mays, and Pat Metheny. I had no idea who any of them were at the time, and Joni wasn't really my thing anyway, but my brother had an extra ticket so I went... and needless to say it was an incredible show. Seeing Jaco do his mind-blowing solo spot is one of my most indelible concert memories.

Is that the show that was on the Shadows & Light album?

In the Suds · Post by **In the Suds** » Tue Nov 24, 2020 4:48 pm

TheSpoiler wrote: ↑Tue Nov 24, 2020 4:42 pm
In the Suds wrote: ↑Tue Nov 24, 2020 1:22 pm
Goodwilltowardsall wrote: ↑Tue Nov 24, 2020 6:51 am This is like asking who was the best better bass player Sid Vicious or Paul McCartney. Sid was perfect the Sex Pistols as Gene is for KISS. I don't think Joni Mitchell would hire Gene to play on her music.
I saw Jaco with Joni. Forest Hill Stadium, Queens, NY 1979. One of my first concerts. Also in the band were Don Alias, Michael Brecker, Lyle Mays, and Pat Metheny. I had no idea who any of them were at the time, and Joni wasn't really my thing anyway, but my brother had an extra ticket so I went... and needless to say it was an incredible show. Seeing Jaco do his mind-blowing solo spot is one of my most indelible concert memories.
Is that the show that was on the Shadows & Light album?

Same tour but different show. The one they used for that was about two weeks later in Santa Barbara CA.

KISSTRONAUT · Post by **KISSTRONAUT** » Tue Nov 24, 2020 8:02 pm

lock24lock24 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 24, 2020 2:37 am
KISSTRONAUT wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:52 pm
Fartbone wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:12 am Who is the better bass player.
Currently Gene.
Can't argue with the facts. A case could perhaps be made for Gene in this poll, since he has been the superior bass player for a longer period of time.
Jaco was better from, say 1970-1987, but since then Gene has clearly been better in every way.

Asking who is better is always tricky. Technique, virtuosity, career, fame, performer. So many things go into the mix. Gene would be the first admit his bass limitations but he sure has been a force in the music world.

Frehley's Vomit · Post by **Frehley's Vomit** » Tue Nov 24, 2020 9:47 pm

Going Blind wrote: ↑Tue Nov 24, 2020 8:18 am
Tito wrote: ↑Tue Nov 24, 2020 7:24 am
Goodwilltowardsall wrote: ↑Tue Nov 24, 2020 6:51 am Sid was perfect the Sex Pistols as Gene is for KISS.
The guy who wasn't even plugged it at gigs was perfect? Sid Vicious was 100% image 0% musicianship. Glen Matlock was perfect for the Sex Pistols. He could actually play. Oh, and he wrote the songs too.
Apparently Matlock was kicked out of the Pistols because he liked The Beatles. Horrendous mistake.

That was a myth perpetuated by McLaren. Matlock left the band.

rugburn · Post by **rugburn** » Thu Nov 26, 2020 3:50 pm

Should never be mentioned in the same sentence. Comical....

Farewell Tour 2030 · Post by **Farewell Tour 2030** » Thu Nov 26, 2020 8:21 pm

Gene’s not even the best bass player on certain albums! Lol

He’s a great player though. Cool feel, plays for the song, solid. That’s all you need.