When I first realized KISS was full of Sh*t

[J-Lefty]

When did you 1st realize KISS was full of crap. For me it was after KISS Exposed!. I was going on 15 and still working my way through the catalogue. Gene and Paul say "we've recorded every show we've ever played". If that was the case why (by 1988) did I own a bootleg copy of every classic KISS show that would surface. 30 years later and there is nothing more available other than what I bought at Rainbow Rock in 1987.

[Pete2174]

Here's a thought. Rather than looking at the negative things in Kisstory, why not celebrate the good they have brought into your life?

[Mike5477]

Here's a thought. Rather than looking at the negative things in Kisstory, why not celebrate the good they have brought into your life?

This.

[andreww1962]

It was probably during the Dynasty era, after Peter was fired, that I started realizing that things weren't as they seemed. By the time Ace was out, the facts came out in a series of Guitar Player interviews with Ace where he countered some of the bullshit that Gene and Paul were saying about him. Before that, there were only a couple of things. The KISS jet for instance, seemed like a chartered Lear Jet that they had slapped a decal on. It certainly was KISS trying to fool people into thinking they were in the same league as Led Zeppelin who actually had a leased Boeing 747 for an entire tour.

[steve]

The biggest lie of all. 1996.

[andreww1962]

Here's a thought. Rather than looking at the negative things in Kisstory, why not celebrate the good they have brought into your life?

The guys in KISS have brought far more disappointment in my life than good. I loved them from 1975-81, they were the best band on the planet. but they fell apart, and aside from the reunion, which they ended up fucking up as well, they've done absolutely nothing but try and separate fans and their money.

[andreww1962]

The biggest lie of all. 1996.

In many way, you are right. The reunion was great, but I don't believe any of the four were actually happy doing it.

[J-Lefty]

Here's a thought. Rather than looking at the negative things in Kisstory, why not celebrate the good they have brought into your life?

The guys in KISS have brought far more disappointment in my life than good. I loved them from 1975-81, they were the best band on the planet. but they fell apart, and aside from the reunion, which they ended up fucking up as well, they've done absolutely nothing but try and separate fans and their money.

Once I became "woke" to the KISS BS machine It made sense why everyone ridiculed me for being a KISS fan in the 80s. Kind of like Linus and the Great Pumpkin.

[Fartbone]

Here's a thought. Rather than looking at the negative things in Kisstory, why not celebrate the good they have brought into your life?

Here's a thought. It's a message board for discussion. If you don't care for that you can go elsewhere.

[FlamingRuth]

I would say I started to question them when Peter left,and then Ace. I was just a teenager and had no real knowledge about the inner workings of Kiss, but I began to wonder what was going on behind the scenes.

[KissKing73]

Here’s a thought....LIVE TO WIN PEEOOOPPPLLEEEEE!!

[FlamingRuth]

Here’s a thought....LIVE TO WIN PEEOOOPPPLLEEEEE!!

I don’t think it’s necessarily negative to look back and notice when I began to see Kiss as a money making business and not just some goofy musical entity designed for my personal enjoyment.
I guess that’s kinda how my sleepy mind interpreted the OP’s question.

[ObiWanFrehley]

I took it to mean they had at least one good proshot show from every tour. Which seems possible, but agreed in the early '90s I had a lot of boots that would later be on KISSology.

Could mean they believed they had one good proshot from every tour but probably didn't realize some of them had been destroyed.

The 1970s is actually well documented, from Winterland, to Tokyo 1976, then some really good 1977 shows the Houston shows, and Largo. Then Largo 1979 in all it's infamy.

Only glaring omission is 1978, which would be a great find if it exists. 1982 - 1983 is pretty scarce too.

[Choose_One]

One line I particularly remember from the Unplugged VHS was..."During the conventions, Eric Singer suggested, hey why not invite Peter to come and sing with us"
Gene telling the story, with an ashen faced Singer next to him. I believed it at the time. Now? No f*cking way.

[Two Headed Dog]

Read an interview in 1985, while they were working on what would become Asylum. They said the upcoming album would sound like a mix of Destroyer and another album (can't remember which one). When it was released it sounded nothing like Destroyer; not the songwriting, not the lyrics. not the production...

[Bandit1974]

One line I particularly remember from the Unplugged VHS was..."During the conventions, Eric Singer suggested, hey why not invite Peter to come and sing with us"
Gene telling the story, with an ashen faced Singer next to him. I believed it at the time. Now? No f*cking way.

Yeah, I had a hard time believing that one as well.


The re-recorded vocals on You Wanted The Best CD was when I first realized SOMEBODY was full of sh*t. (At the time I thought, maybe the record company made Paul do it?)

I didn't fully wake up until Paul Stanley told us that a guy at the car wash was responsible for KISS returning after the "Farewell."

The next thing was when Paul and Gene spun the story that the Farewell tour was really intended to be a "Farewell" to Peter and Ace.

[WI KISSfan]

Here's a thought. Rather than looking at the negative things in Kisstory, why not celebrate the good they have brought into your life?

That would be great!

[Crown Royal]

Here's a thought. Rather than looking at the negative things in Kisstory, why not celebrate the good they have brought into your life?

It's a big board. Put on your big boy pants and understand there's enough room to discuss the good, the bad, and the ugly with the band.

[markaberrant]

Interesting question. I wasn't savvy enough of a fan in the 80s and early 90s to see through their lies.

But the Psycho Circus album was the first time I felt lied to by Kiss. I didn't initially know that Ace and Peter barely play on it, but I knew it sure didn't sound like Destroyer, which they had promised.

It sounded like a bunch of out of touch old farts trying way too hard to be relevant and failing miserably. This was not the triumphant return of my kick ass rock n roll heroes. I knew something was wrong.

I remember disliking the album so much, and also being turned off by the stupid 3-D gimmicks for the tour, that I didn't see them on the Psycho Circus tour. I honestly forgot about this detail until this thread reminded me.

And I now remember the only reason I went to the Farewell Tour was because it was indeed supposed to be their Farewell Tour, so I might as well go one more time. I managed to get front row tix, and it was just ok. I was glad I went, but it wasn't anything great either. It was about what I expected for a band that had ran its course, and had nothing new left to offer.

[KissKing73]

Here’s a thought....LIVE TO WIN PEEOOOPPPLLEEEEE!!

I don’t think it’s necessarily negative to look back and notice when I began to see Kiss as a money making business and not just some goofy musical entity designed for my personal enjoyment.
I guess that’s kinda how my sleepy mind interpreted the OP’s question.

I agree, I’ve always said that I wished Kiss was ran how Metallica and Maiden run their business. Obviously things are done to make money, but when they do it it really comes off like they are doing it for the fans. Just look at the level of merch those bands are involved in releasing. Sure I’m spending money obtaining this stuff, but it’s stuff I actually want.

When Kiss does it, it’s lazy and the path to least resistance that gives the impression they are after the quick money, low hanging fruit.

[Fartbone]

When I bought Discharge's Why LP.

[OrigialEraFan]

The first time was when Ace left and they even floated the idea Vinnie was just there till Ace came back, but when Paul started with that bulshit that Farewell tour was just farewell to Ace & Peter. Right then I knew they would say or do anything for money.

[Grand Classic]

Here's a thought. Rather than looking at the negative things in Kisstory, why not celebrate the good they have brought into your life?

Sometimes the negative things, douchebaggery, unbelievable greed and blatant lies can sour the good stuff.

[johnkissfan1974]

When did you 1st realize KISS was full of crap. For me it was after KISS Exposed!. I was going on 15 and still working my way through the catalogue. Gene and Paul say "we've recorded every show we've ever played". If that was the case why (by 1988) did I own a bootleg copy of every classic KISS show that would surface. 30 years later and there is nothing more available other than what I bought at Rainbow Rock in 1987.

I think the bootleg vids you aquired came from those used in the Exposed video. I had asked something similar a few years ago (when did the 70’s concerts start circulating) and aside for the HBO tokyo special - i think the other boots leaked were the result of the company the band used to compile the Exposed footage for video release.
I could be wrong about this but its what I was told and it makes sense.

[Hi I'm Witz]

Here’s a thought....LIVE TO WIN PEEOOOPPPLLEEEEE!!

I don’t think it’s necessarily negative to look back and notice when I began to see Kiss as a money making business and not just some goofy musical entity designed for my personal enjoyment.
I guess that’s kinda how my sleepy mind interpreted the OP’s question.

I agree, I’ve always said that I wished Kiss was ran how Metallica and Maiden run their business. Obviously things are done to make money, but when they do it it really comes off like they are doing it for the fans. Just look at the level of merch those bands are involved in releasing. Sure I’m spending money obtaining this stuff, but it’s stuff I actually want.

When Kiss does it, it’s lazy and the path to least resistance that gives the impression they are after the quick money, low hanging fruit.

IMO KISS' biggest issue is they refuse to take risks. Even small, calculated risks. Now, some may argue that they've earned the right to be so judicious. However I look at a band like Iron Maiden who merchandises themselves about as well as anybody but it's not ALL they're about! This is a band who not only still makes new music, they aren't afraid to actually perform it AND they tour all together on a jumbo jet flown by the lead singer. I'm sorry but to me that is eternally bad ass! I never hear them whining about the state of the music industry. I never hear them say "there's no money in recording anymore." They go out there and they do what bands should do, which is create new music and go on the road to support it.

[johnkissfan1974]

Paul and Gene are the “politicians” for Kiss. As with any politician, you cannot trust a single word they say. I think the lies just come easily now as they have been campainging for decades!

[KissKing73]

Here’s a thought....LIVE TO WIN PEEOOOPPPLLEEEEE!!

I don’t think it’s necessarily negative to look back and notice when I began to see Kiss as a money making business and not just some goofy musical entity designed for my personal enjoyment.
I guess that’s kinda how my sleepy mind interpreted the OP’s question.

I agree, I’ve always said that I wished Kiss was ran how Metallica and Maiden run their business. Obviously things are done to make money, but when they do it it really comes off like they are doing it for the fans. Just look at the level of merch those bands are involved in releasing. Sure I’m spending money obtaining this stuff, but it’s stuff I actually want.

When Kiss does it, it’s lazy and the path to least resistance that gives the impression they are after the quick money, low hanging fruit.

IMO KISS' biggest issue is they refuse to take risks. Even small, calculated risks. Now, some may argue that they've earned the right to be so judicious. However I look at a band like Iron Maiden who merchandises themselves about as well as anybody but it's not ALL they're about! This is a band who not only still makes new music, they aren't afraid to actually perform it AND they tour all together on a jumbo jet flown by the lead singer. I'm sorry but to me that is eternally bad ass! I never hear them whining about the state of the music industry. I never hear them say "there's no money in recording anymore." They go out there and they do what bands should do, which is create new music and go on the road to support it.

Wow, these are great points, and to add on to what you are saying, I definitely thought Maiden was bad ass when they toured the matter of life and death album, and played the whole freaking thing! That took balls, I saw the tour and it was amazing.

For me Kiss confused me when they started releasing archive material and updating vocals or changing drum tracks like they did on the Love Gun deluxe set. To me that’s a head scratcher. Why not just release it as is? We all know what they sounded like warts and all, but the level of control seems confusing to me.

[OrigialEraFan]

Here’s a thought....LIVE TO WIN PEEOOOPPPLLEEEEE!!

I don’t think it’s necessarily negative to look back and notice when I began to see Kiss as a money making business and not just some goofy musical entity designed for my personal enjoyment.
I guess that’s kinda how my sleepy mind interpreted the OP’s question.

I agree, I’ve always said that I wished Kiss was ran how Metallica and Maiden run their business. Obviously things are done to make money, but when they do it it really comes off like they are doing it for the fans. Just look at the level of merch those bands are involved in releasing. Sure I’m spending money obtaining this stuff, but it’s stuff I actually want.

When Kiss does it, it’s lazy and the path to least resistance that gives the impression they are after the quick money, low hanging fruit.

IMO KISS' biggest issue is they refuse to take risks. Even small, calculated risks. Now, some may argue that they've earned the right to be so judicious. However I look at a band like Iron Maiden who merchandises themselves about as well as anybody but it's not ALL they're about! This is a band who not only still makes new music, they aren't afraid to actually perform it AND they tour all together on a jumbo jet flown by the lead singer. I'm sorry but to me that is eternally bad ass! I never hear them whining about the state of the music industry. I never hear them say "there's no money in recording anymore." They go out there and they do what bands should do, which is create new music and go on the road to support it.

Wow, these are great points, and to add on to what you are saying, I definitely thought Maiden was bad ass when they toured the matter of life and death album, and played the whole freaking thing! That took balls, I saw the tour and it was amazing.

For me Kiss confused me when they started releasing archive material and updating vocals or changing drum tracks like they did on the Love Gun deluxe set. To me that’s a head scratcher. Why not just release it as is? We all know what they sounded like warts and all, but the level of control seems confusing to me.

What is changed on Love Gun deluxe set?

[GACatmandu]

Read an interview in 1985, while they were working on what would become Asylum. They said the upcoming album would sound like a mix of Destroyer and another album (can't remember which one). When it was released it sounded nothing like Destroyer; not the songwriting, not the lyrics. not the production...

I remember they said that Destroyer thing about every album in the 1980s it was always the new album will be a mix of Destroyer and whatever the last album was.

Like this: Paul would say "The new album is going to sound like a cross between Destroyer and Animalize." When being asked about the album coming out soon, in this case Asylum. I remember him saying the same shit right before Crazy Nights was released. Paul used this same line for just about every KISS album in the 1980s, I think I saw the same crappy line in reference to Carnival Of Souls a while before they announced the reunion tour and that album was going to be released next.

[Philly Cheese]

Here's a thought. Rather than looking at the negative things in Kisstory, why not celebrate the good they have brought into your life?

Well said.

[Pete2174]

Here's a thought. Rather than looking at the negative things in Kisstory, why not celebrate the good they have brought into your life?

It's a big board. Put on your big boy pants and understand there's enough room to discuss the good, the bad, and the ugly with the band.

Yes but there’s so much fucking negatively on here. This year has shown how quickly the world can change. I’d rather look at the positive things Kiss have brought into my life.

[Fartbone]

Here's a thought. Rather than looking at the negative things in Kisstory, why not celebrate the good they have brought into your life?

It's a big board. Put on your big boy pants and understand there's enough room to discuss the good, the bad, and the ugly with the band.

Yes but there’s so much fucking negatively on here. This year has shown how quickly the world can change. I’d rather look at the positive things Kiss have brought into my life.

[Grand Classic]

Here's a thought. Rather than looking at the negative things in Kisstory, why not celebrate the good they have brought into your life?

It's a big board. Put on your big boy pants and understand there's enough room to discuss the good, the bad, and the ugly with the band.

Yes but there’s so much fucking negatively on here. This year has shown how quickly the world can change. I’d rather look at the positive things Kiss have brought into my life.

Have you considered that KISS have CAUSED this negativity with the decisions they make and things they say and do?

If your best friend from childhood turns into a greedy, constantly lying, narcissistic fucking douchebag, it might be a little difficult to remember the good times.

[acefan1975]

Probably when they told all the lies in the Reunion era.

[FlyingInA747]

The 1970s is actually well documented, from Winterland, to Tokyo 1976, then some really good 1977 shows the Houston shows, and Largo. Then Largo 1979 in all it's infamy.

The issue is that Paul, according to the OP says the band filmed everything. I distinctly remember Gene saying the same thing. Something like, -everywhere we went, we had cameras follow us. It wasn't true. Every concert video that we have of the band in the 70's was done by an arena that filmed every band that came through. KISS didn't bother to film anything. The one show they filmed -Magic Mountain for the movie, they didn't even bother to save all the footage. All they have is the poorly edited live/fake live footage mix that is in the movie.

[KissKing73]

Here’s a thought....LIVE TO WIN PEEOOOPPPLLEEEEE!!

I don’t think it’s necessarily negative to look back and notice when I began to see Kiss as a money making business and not just some goofy musical entity designed for my personal enjoyment.
I guess that’s kinda how my sleepy mind interpreted the OP’s question.

I agree, I’ve always said that I wished Kiss was ran how Metallica and Maiden run their business. Obviously things are done to make money, but when they do it it really comes off like they are doing it for the fans. Just look at the level of merch those bands are involved in releasing. Sure I’m spending money obtaining this stuff, but it’s stuff I actually want.

When Kiss does it, it’s lazy and the path to least resistance that gives the impression they are after the quick money, low hanging fruit.

IMO KISS' biggest issue is they refuse to take risks. Even small, calculated risks. Now, some may argue that they've earned the right to be so judicious. However I look at a band like Iron Maiden who merchandises themselves about as well as anybody but it's not ALL they're about! This is a band who not only still makes new music, they aren't afraid to actually perform it AND they tour all together on a jumbo jet flown by the lead singer. I'm sorry but to me that is eternally bad ass! I never hear them whining about the state of the music industry. I never hear them say "there's no money in recording anymore." They go out there and they do what bands should do, which is create new music and go on the road to support it.

Wow, these are great points, and to add on to what you are saying, I definitely thought Maiden was bad ass when they toured the matter of life and death album, and played the whole freaking thing! That took balls, I saw the tour and it was amazing.

For me Kiss confused me when they started releasing archive material and updating vocals or changing drum tracks like they did on the Love Gun deluxe set. To me that’s a head scratcher. Why not just release it as is? We all know what they sounded like warts and all, but the level of control seems confusing to me.

What is changed on Love Gun deluxe set?

The live tracks at the end of disc two have been replaced with what sounds like a drum machine and ruins it.

[KissCannibal]

Here's a thought. Rather than looking at the negative things in Kisstory, why not celebrate the good they have brought into your life?

Well said.

Agreed.

[Crown Royal]

Here's a thought. Rather than looking at the negative things in Kisstory, why not celebrate the good they have brought into your life?

It's a big board. Put on your big boy pants and understand there's enough room to discuss the good, the bad, and the ugly with the band.

Yes but there’s so much fucking negatively on here. This year has shown how quickly the world can change. I’d rather look at the positive things Kiss have brought into my life.

There's room for that, too.

You have to consider how much of the negativity you see has been generated as a legitimate bitch against the band.

No new material

Criticizing other bands that use canned vocals then turning around and doing it themselves.

Gene demanding that bands that use canned vocals reflect the fact on their tickets, and pro-rate the price of the ticket based on how much canned vocals are used in the show, but refusing to do it in his band.

Focusing primarily on their fans with large disposable incomes in their twilight years.

A shockingly -embarrassing concert for sharks.

Paul reading children's stories in footy pajamas.

Paul's Twitter account serving as a showcase for how petulant and angry a man he seems to be nowadays.

Gene having no use for people that smoke weed, but jumping right into the business when he felt he could make some money off of it.

It's not like the band doesn't invite criticism.

[Marty Scurll]

Here's a thought. Rather than looking at the negative things in Kisstory, why not celebrate the good they have brought into your life?

It's a big board. Put on your big boy pants and understand there's enough room to discuss the good, the bad, and the ugly with the band.

Yes but there’s so much fucking negatively on here. This year has shown how quickly the world can change. I’d rather look at the positive things Kiss have brought into my life.

There's room for that, too.

You have to consider how much of the negativity you see has been generated as a legitimate bitch against the band.

No new material

Criticizing other bands that use canned vocals then turning around and doing it themselves.

Gene demanding that bands that use canned vocals reflect the fact on their tickets, and pro-rate the price of the ticket based on how much canned vocals are used in the show, but refusing to do it in his band.

Focusing primarily on their fans with large disposable incomes in their twilight years.

A shockingly -embarrassing concert for sharks.

Paul reading children's stories in footy pajamas.

Paul's Twitter account serving as a showcase for how petulant and angry a man he seems to be nowadays.

Gene having no use for people that smoke weed, but jumping right into the business when he felt he could make some money off of it.

It's not like the band doesn't invite criticism.

Whew! When you put it all in a row like that they've turned even shittier than I thought and I'm pretty jaded nowadays when it comes to Kiss.


I knew a lot of what they spewed was hype which didn't bother me as a lot of artists in all fields hype their latest thing as the greatest and hope that it sticks. But it all started to sound less like hype and more like shit by the time CN rolled around with the "if I could pick an album to compare it to it would be destroyer" routine from Gene. Really? There's no album in the world that sounds less like Destroyer than CN. It's been a steady pile of one lie after another since.

[J-Lefty]

The 1970s is actually well documented, from Winterland, to Tokyo 1976, then some really good 1977 shows the Houston shows, and Largo. Then Largo 1979 in all it's infamy.

The issue is that Paul, according to the OP says the band filmed everything. I distinctly remember Gene saying the same thing. Something like, -everywhere we went, we had cameras follow us. It wasn't true. Every concert video that we have of the band in the 70's was done by an arena that filmed every band that came through. KISS didn't bother to film anything. The one show they filmed -Magic Mountain for the movie, they didn't even bother to save all the footage. All they have is the poorly edited live/fake live footage mix that is in the movie.

That was definitely my point. Why say everything was recorded when it wasn't? I think they are both pathological liars.

[JohnBergless]

For me, the concert I saw on the COTN tour. Ace Frehley everywhere on the videos & artwork, but onstage it’s a guy called Vinnie.

[firekiss]

I've never came to a realisation that the band is full of shit. If I thought that, I'd let them go. The good stuff, far outweighs the bad stuff.

[Tommyr]

"Dynasty". That's when I started knowing. Being a drummer I knew that wasn't Peter (at first) on a lot of those songs. Dead give aways to me at the time were "Hard Times", "Charisma", Save your love". I wasn't sure of some of the other ones until later. Since Peter sang "Dirty Livin'" I figured that was him drumming on it. It was more his style of playing. Then when they started following the latest music trends I really knew they were FOS.

[Easy Catman]

Here’s a thought....LIVE TO WIN PEEOOOPPPLLEEEEE!!

I don’t think it’s necessarily negative to look back and notice when I began to see Kiss as a money making business and not just some goofy musical entity designed for my personal enjoyment.
I guess that’s kinda how my sleepy mind interpreted the OP’s question.

I agree, I’ve always said that I wished Kiss was ran how Metallica and Maiden run their business. Obviously things are done to make money, but when they do it it really comes off like they are doing it for the fans. Just look at the level of merch those bands are involved in releasing. Sure I’m spending money obtaining this stuff, but it’s stuff I actually want.

When Kiss does it, it’s lazy and the path to least resistance that gives the impression they are after the quick money, low hanging fruit.

IMO KISS' biggest issue is they refuse to take risks. Even small, calculated risks. Now, some may argue that they've earned the right to be so judicious. However I look at a band like Iron Maiden who merchandises themselves about as well as anybody but it's not ALL they're about! This is a band who not only still makes new music, they aren't afraid to actually perform it AND they tour all together on a jumbo jet flown by the lead singer. I'm sorry but to me that is eternally bad ass! I never hear them whining about the state of the music industry. I never hear them say "there's no money in recording anymore." They go out there and they do what bands should do, which is create new music and go on the road to support it.

F**king right Witz the only exception being the collaboration with the Japanese girl band, I loved that project, the only time the current manager has been in the same ballpark as Bill Aucoin. Everything else as predictable and lazy as F**K. Scared old men frying sprouts.

[aceeg]

Since Destroyer they fucking lied and replace Ace because they could not wait another day to record his solo When Bib Ezrin put his original solo that was better back on Destroyer Resurrection

[KLP68]

I’m a KISS fan that doesn’t care if they all full of it or not. When I buy KISS t-shirts and stuff I know I’m contributing to their wealth. Same thing with Iron Maiden and other bands I support. I enjoy the albums they make me feel young when I need a jolt of energy. Especially the Destroyer album.

[DubaiRockCity]

F**king right Witz the only exception being the collaboration with the Japanese girl band, I loved that project, the only time the current manager has been in the same ballpark as Bill Aucoin. Everything else as predictable and lazy as F**K. Scared old men frying sprouts.

The current “manager” just oversees the planning and logistics of the tours. Gene and Paul have been steering the ship for decades. And since 2003 it’s been 90% Paul.

That’s why they’ve sucked ever since 1998.

[spacekace]

For me, the illusion of any legitimacy was fully shattered with Psycho Circus. That was a punch in the gut. Straight up fraud.

[Much Too Soon]

Hopefully Dr Fauci can make an exception and guarantee KissFaqers first dibs on one of the new vaccines come December.

Our boys here REALLY need to get to crawl out into the light.

It can’t happen too soon.

[steveh67]

When they started cracking down on the fanzines and websites, once they put the makeup back on and the reunion tour took off.