Re: Vinnie Vincent vs Eddie Van Halen
Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:32 am
I like Vinnie, but this is no contest.
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While I understand why you would say something like this, it's not true Vinnie was playing professionally way before anyone ever heard of Eddie Van Halen. Vinnie's career in no way started in the 1980s with KISS He has played professionally since the early 1970s.
Is this a joke poll?
Yes, but his style was completely different then.GACatmandu wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 10:04 amWhile I understand why you would say something like this, it's not true Vinnie was playing professionally way before anyone ever heard of Eddie Van Halen. Vinnie's career in no way started in the 1980s with KISS He has played professionally since the early 1970s.
And no one gave a fuck about him then.GACatmandu wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 10:04 amWhile I understand why you would say something like this, it's not true Vinnie was playing professionally way before anyone ever heard of Eddie Van Halen. Vinnie's career in no way started in the 1980s with KISS He has played professionally since the early 1970s.
Exactly. He wasn't a "shred" guy until after Eddie and it was his being a shred guy that got him into KISS, because it was the '80s and they thought they needed that...because of Eddie and the way he completely changed the guitar landscape.Potato Salad wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:15 pmYes, but his style was completely different then.GACatmandu wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 10:04 amWhile I understand why you would say something like this, it's not true Vinnie was playing professionally way before anyone ever heard of Eddie Van Halen. Vinnie's career in no way started in the 1980s with KISS He has played professionally since the early 1970s.
Wichita77 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 8:15 amYou're the expert here Sphinx, but I seem to have read interviews in the past that suggested VV wasn't well regarded among some of his bandmates since KISS. In fact I don't recall ever hearing that he was a joy to work with from anyone.
To the question about being better for KISS, that's impossible to say, as we don't know what kind of creative energy would have been sparked between GaP and EVH. Who knows what Eddie would have done with their ideas and how awesome those songs could have been?
TheSphinx wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:32 pmWichita77 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 8:15 amYou're the expert here Sphinx, but I seem to have read interviews in the past that suggested VV wasn't well regarded among some of his bandmates since KISS. In fact I don't recall ever hearing that he was a joy to work with from anyone.
To the question about being better for KISS, that's impossible to say, as we don't know what kind of creative energy would have been sparked between GaP and EVH. Who knows what Eddie would have done with their ideas and how awesome those songs could have been?
Well instead of VINIMALIZED we all imagined how great that could have been......
I'm just thinking Eddie would have gotten Gene and Paul to be a keyboard heavy band instead.
Reminds me of KISS doing the INTRO of Jump in 1988 or so.... and then Paul trashing it.
Look at Van Halen....3 strong albums.
Then Fair Warning ....which wasn't near as good. Then a crap covers album basically. Then big time keyboards.
Just boat them off to Vinnilligan's Island. And let them eat coconut!In the Suds wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:49 am Anybody that chooses VV should be required to explain their rationale.
In the Suds wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:49 pm
ps. 1984 may have keyboards but it also has incredible guitar. VV could never play something like the Drop Dead Legs solo. Not on his best day!
As usual,you're trying to change the subject.TheSphinx wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 7:39 am Are you talking about who would have been better in KISS or what?
As Sammy points out... Eddie can't write songs on his own.
https://ultimateclassicrock.com/sammy-h ... ite-songs/
If Vinnie and Eddie were both relative unknowns at the time of Creatures.... Vinnie easily be the better choice to join the band.
Plus, I don't think Eddie was a good person. How they stabbed Michael Anthony in the back like that. He was always crying and whining to his manager.
Eddie was an alcoholic and KISS certainly didn't need that.
The stuff that KISS could have done if Gene and Paul had put their egos aside.....KISS 2.0 could have really made their mark.
And when one really thinks about how great CREATURES could have been if they had used at least 6 of the songs Vinnie had written for it.
Imagine if BACK ON THE STREETS (with Vinnie on lead) had been used
Vinni'e Betrayed
And the demo version of NOT FOR THE INNOCENT with Gene and Paul trading vocals.
I'd call the ALBUM NOT FOR THE INNOCENT
Song On It
Not For The Innocent
Killer
I Love It Loud
Back on The Streets
I Still Love You
Betrayed
Creatures Of The NIght
War Machine
Saint and SInner
Rock And Roll Hell
And of course Gene and Paul tried to downplay Vinnie being a "guitar god". Who knows how big of a campaign GROVER JACKSON would have had if G/P let Vinnie have the VV model guitar for him etc. Once again... thanks to Pauls ego....
Eddie Van Halen never would have worked in KISS. Vinnie was the perfect fit.....but Paul's ego ruined it.
Well, their "big time keyboards" song Jump was a #1 song, and with Panama, Hot for Teacher and I'll Wait on the 1984 album all in the top 20. That kind of success is something KISS with (or without) VV never came close to. Add that to the first three strong albums and you've got a pretty good indicator of the mark EVH left on music.TheSphinx wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:32 pmWichita77 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 8:15 amYou're the expert here Sphinx, but I seem to have read interviews in the past that suggested VV wasn't well regarded among some of his bandmates since KISS. In fact I don't recall ever hearing that he was a joy to work with from anyone.
To the question about being better for KISS, that's impossible to say, as we don't know what kind of creative energy would have been sparked between GaP and EVH. Who knows what Eddie would have done with their ideas and how awesome those songs could have been?
Well instead of VINIMALIZED we all imagined how great that could have been......
I'm just thinking Eddie would have gotten Gene and Paul to be a keyboard heavy band instead.
Reminds me of KISS doing the INTRO of Jump in 1988 or so.... and then Paul trashing it.
Look at Van Halen....3 strong albums.
Then Fair Warning ....which wasn't near as good. Then a crap covers album basically. Then big time keyboards.
Drop Dead Legs actually rules, but everybody has different taste so...whatever.TheSphinx wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:04 pmIn the Suds wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:49 pm
ps. 1984 may have keyboards but it also has incredible guitar. VV could never play something like the Drop Dead Legs solo. Not on his best day!
DDL is PURE FILLER. Ok its got a decent solo in there.... but the SONG SUCKS
In bizzaro worldLofton23rdSt wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:51 pm It's not a silly poll. I'm not comparing their legacies. You could argue that Vinnie could outplay Eddie.
LoveGun77 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:30 pmAs usual,you're trying to change the subject.TheSphinx wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 7:39 am Are you talking about who would have been better in KISS or what?
As Sammy points out... Eddie can't write songs on his own.
https://ultimateclassicrock.com/sammy-h ... ite-songs/
If Vinnie and Eddie were both relative unknowns at the time of Creatures.... Vinnie easily be the better choice to join the band.
Plus, I don't think Eddie was a good person. How they stabbed Michael Anthony in the back like that. He was always crying and whining to his manager.
Eddie was an alcoholic and KISS certainly didn't need that.
The stuff that KISS could have done if Gene and Paul had put their egos aside.....KISS 2.0 could have really made their mark.
And when one really thinks about how great CREATURES could have been if they had used at least 6 of the songs Vinnie had written for it.
Imagine if BACK ON THE STREETS (with Vinnie on lead) had been used
Vinni'e Betrayed
And the demo version of NOT FOR THE INNOCENT with Gene and Paul trading vocals.
I'd call the ALBUM NOT FOR THE INNOCENT
Song On It
Not For The Innocent
Killer
I Love It Loud
Back on The Streets
I Still Love You
Betrayed
Creatures Of The NIght
War Machine
Saint and SInner
Rock And Roll Hell
And of course Gene and Paul tried to downplay Vinnie being a "guitar god". Who knows how big of a campaign GROVER JACKSON would have had if G/P let Vinnie have the VV model guitar for him etc. Once again... thanks to Pauls ego....
Eddie Van Halen never would have worked in KISS. Vinnie was the perfect fit.....but Paul's ego ruined it.
We are NOT talking about what kind of person EVH was....were are NOT talking about who would be better in Kiss. We are NOT talking about how Vinnie was or wasn't treated in the band.
Vinnie was NEVER a "guitar god". Not even close. He will never be thought of in that vein with the legends. Only in your mind.
You could argue that if you had no taste, and/or were badly in need of an ear transplant.Lofton23rdSt wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:51 pm It's not a silly poll. I'm not comparing their legacies. You could argue that Vinnie could outplay Eddie.
You are arguing better solos. Sammy said that Joe Satriani was better than Eddie.In the Suds wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:09 pmYou could argue that if you had no taste, and/or were badly in need of an ear transplant.Lofton23rdSt wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:51 pm It's not a silly poll. I'm not comparing their legacies. You could argue that Vinnie could outplay Eddie.
Are you trolling or what? Seriously, you are doing a whole lot of goalpost shifting here and it's starting to look like trolling.Lofton23rdSt wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:02 pmYou are arguing better solos. Sammy said that Joe Satriani was better than Eddie.In the Suds wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:09 pmYou could argue that if you had no taste, and/or were badly in need of an ear transplant.Lofton23rdSt wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:51 pm It's not a silly poll. I'm not comparing their legacies. You could argue that Vinnie could outplay Eddie.
Sure if you want tell the world that you are a fucking idiot.Lofton23rdSt wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:51 pm It's not a silly poll. I'm not comparing their legacies. You could argue that Vinnie could outplay Eddie.
TheSphinx wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:32 pmWichita77 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 8:15 amYou're the expert here Sphinx, but I seem to have read interviews in the past that suggested VV wasn't well regarded among some of his bandmates since KISS. In fact I don't recall ever hearing that he was a joy to work with from anyone.
To the question about being better for KISS, that's impossible to say, as we don't know what kind of creative energy would have been sparked between GaP and EVH. Who knows what Eddie would have done with their ideas and how awesome those songs could have been?
Well instead of VINIMALIZED we all imagined how great that could have been......
I'm just thinking Eddie would have gotten Gene and Paul to be a keyboard heavy band instead.
Reminds me of KISS doing the INTRO of Jump in 1988 or so.... and then Paul trashing it.
Look at Van Halen....3 strong albums.
Then Fair Warning ....which wasn't near as good. Then a crap covers album basically. Then big time keyboards.
Sammy is a confirmed idiot? You don't know anything about guitar. Vinnie was a lot more of a shredder than Eddie.In the Suds wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:42 pm
Are you trolling or what? Seriously, you are doing a whole lot of goalpost shifting here and it's starting to look like trolling.
If you believe VV outplayed EVH then make your argument, post your links...whatever. Or don't. But stop trying to change the subject.
Also, Sammy is a confirmed idiot so that's neither here nor there anyway.
He played a lot faster than Eddie. It doesn't mean he was better.Grand Classic wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:32 pmSure if you want tell the world that you are a fucking idiot.Lofton23rdSt wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:51 pm It's not a silly poll. I'm not comparing their legacies. You could argue that Vinnie could outplay Eddie.
No matter which way you want to say it, Vinnie couldn't outdo anything over Eddie.Lofton23rdSt wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 7:00 pmHe played a lot faster than Eddie. It doesn't mean he was better.Grand Classic wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:32 pmSure if you want tell the world that you are a fucking idiot.Lofton23rdSt wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:51 pm It's not a silly poll. I'm not comparing their legacies. You could argue that Vinnie could outplay Eddie.
Yes. Slappy Hagar is a clown.Lofton23rdSt wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:59 pmSammy is a confirmed idiot? You don't know anything about guitar. Vinnie was a lot more of a shredder than Eddie.In the Suds wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:42 pm
Are you trolling or what? Seriously, you are doing a whole lot of goalpost shifting here and it's starting to look like trolling.
If you believe VV outplayed EVH then make your argument, post your links...whatever. Or don't. But stop trying to change the subject.
Also, Sammy is a confirmed idiot so that's neither here nor there anyway.
EVH influenced it. That's what I meant by outplaying. Yeah Hagar is a clown, when VH sold millions of albums with him.In the Suds wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 7:05 pm
Yes. Slappy Hagar is a clown.
And Edward Van Halen was never a shredder at all. He was a great musician and composer. Shredding is stupid and irrelevant.
Vinnie did play faster.Grand Classic wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 7:04 pm
No matter which way you want to say it, Vinnie couldn't outdo anything over Eddie.
I hope you are indeed trolling or just having some fun here, because otherwise you are just showing people that are clueless.
yeah. faster to the point where it’s way too sloppy and not melodic. faster is not always betterLofton23rdSt wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 7:09 pmVinnie did play faster.Grand Classic wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 7:04 pm
No matter which way you want to say it, Vinnie couldn't outdo anything over Eddie.
I hope you are indeed trolling or just having some fun here, because otherwise you are just showing people that are clueless.
Still irrelevant. You said yourself faster isn't better.Lofton23rdSt wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 7:07 pmEVH influenced it. That's what I meant by outplaying. Yeah Hagar is a clown, when VH sold millions of albums with him.In the Suds wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 7:05 pm
Yes. Slappy Hagar is a clown.
And Edward Van Halen was never a shredder at all. He was a great musician and composer. Shredding is stupid and irrelevant.
Dude.... just stop.TheSphinx wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:32 pmWichita77 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 8:15 amYou're the expert here Sphinx, but I seem to have read interviews in the past that suggested VV wasn't well regarded among some of his bandmates since KISS. In fact I don't recall ever hearing that he was a joy to work with from anyone.
To the question about being better for KISS, that's impossible to say, as we don't know what kind of creative energy would have been sparked between GaP and EVH. Who knows what Eddie would have done with their ideas and how awesome those songs could have been?
Well instead of VINIMALIZED we all imagined how great that could have been......
I'm just thinking Eddie would have gotten Gene and Paul to be a keyboard heavy band instead.
Reminds me of KISS doing the INTRO of Jump in 1988 or so.... and then Paul trashing it.
Look at Van Halen....3 strong albums.
Then Fair Warning ....which wasn't near as good. Then a crap covers album basically. Then big time keyboards.
What Sammy actually said is that Joe is more fluent and versatile than Ed and maybe from HIS perspective playing with him, he is right in terms of Joe trying things more out of the box than Eddie did in Van Halen.In the Suds wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 7:17 pmStill irrelevant. You said yourself faster isn't better.Lofton23rdSt wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 7:07 pmEVH influenced it. That's what I meant by outplaying. Yeah Hagar is a clown, when VH sold millions of albums with him.In the Suds wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 7:05 pm
Yes. Slappy Hagar is a clown.
And Edward Van Halen was never a shredder at all. He was a great musician and composer. Shredding is stupid and irrelevant.
And yes, Hagar is a clown and I'd bet he doesn't even believe that. He was just shitting on Eddie because he had a record to sell.