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No, but they are more than a blip on the radar and have a career. You know, like Bernie Taupin, Desmond Child, etc.TheSpoiler wrote: ↑Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:33 am So the best songwriters are the ones that sell the most?
Perhaps to you but I'm willing to bet there are many KISS fans that would disagree.LordThurisaz wrote: ↑Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:57 amLIU is proof of how boring his songwriting tends to be.Sssnakester wrote: ↑Fri Sep 13, 2019 8:16 amHow is it a "myth"? Creatures and Lick It Up are proof, at least in a lot of fans eyes and ears.Doose wrote: ↑Fri Sep 13, 2019 8:08 am Vinnie is a charlatan. The MYTH of him being a "great" songwriter is just that - a myth. You want to see a TRUE songwriter who actually wrote hits? Check out Desmond Child's track record. Like Vinnie, he got his big break writing with KISS, but look at what Desmond Child did with that opportunity vs. what Vinnie did with it:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desmond_Child
Would you describe Simmons and Stanley as songwriters?LordThurisaz wrote: ↑Fri Sep 13, 2019 10:00 amNo, but they are morer than a blip on the radar and have a career. You know, like Bernie Taupin, Desmond Child, etc.TheSpoiler wrote: ↑Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:33 am So the best songwriters are the ones that sell the most?
Usually, yes. Lennon/McCartney. Elton John/Bernie Taupin. Freddie Mercury. Tyler/Perry. Even Simmons and Stanley.TheSpoiler wrote: ↑Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:33 am So the best songwriters are the ones that sell the most?
Absolutely not. An example is Brian May. In my opinion, Brian is one of the greatest songwriters in rock history but some of his best songs that are the most loved by Queen fans weren't necessarily the best sellers / highest charting. Songs like 'Now I'm Here' , 'Who Wants To Live Forever' , 'The Hero', 'Flash' ......I could go on and on. However, the strength of those songs, and the songwriting team of Queen in general, made their records strong and their live shows stronger......and virtually filler free.TheSpoiler wrote: ↑Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:33 am So the best songwriters are the ones that sell the most?
So Kanye is a great songwriter?Doose wrote: ↑Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:26 amUsually, yes. Lennon/McCartney. Elton John/Bernie Taupin. Freddie Mercury. Tyler/Perry. Even Simmons and Stanley.TheSpoiler wrote: ↑Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:33 am So the best songwriters are the ones that sell the most?
And you know why? Because sales mean their songs touched the masses and meant something.
That's why Vinnie's music has always failed and never sold.
You know, I'll say it, yes.TheSpoiler wrote: ↑Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:54 amSo Kanye is a great songwriter?Doose wrote: ↑Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:26 amUsually, yes. Lennon/McCartney. Elton John/Bernie Taupin. Freddie Mercury. Tyler/Perry. Even Simmons and Stanley.TheSpoiler wrote: ↑Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:33 am So the best songwriters are the ones that sell the most?
And you know why? Because sales mean their songs touched the masses and meant something.
That's why Vinnie's music has always failed and never sold.
Simmons not so much, but Stanley has been able to at least write some pretty cool songs over the years. Simmons is more of an experimenter, and basically just tosses ideas around and tries making them work.TheSpoiler wrote: ↑Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:21 amWould you describe Simmons and Stanley as songwriters?LordThurisaz wrote: ↑Fri Sep 13, 2019 10:00 amNo, but they are morer than a blip on the radar and have a career. You know, like Bernie Taupin, Desmond Child, etc.TheSpoiler wrote: ↑Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:33 am So the best songwriters are the ones that sell the most?
I'm sorry, but a lot of that album is out and out filler.Sssnakester wrote: ↑Fri Sep 13, 2019 10:36 am Perhaps to you but I'm willing to bet there are many KISS fans that would disagree.
Yeah, it is. For one, his note diarrhea is all over the song, and for another, the vocals sound horrid. Great songwriter, that one.
Oh, yeah... "NUKE HIM!!!", I'd tell ya...LordThurisaz wrote: ↑Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:52 pmYeah, it is. For one, his note diarrhea is all over the song, and for another, the vocals sound horrid. Great songwriter, that one.
Better than anything Ace has come up with in 40 years.LordThurisaz wrote: ↑Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:52 pm
Yeah, it is. For one, his note diarrhea is all over the song, and for another, the vocals sound horrid. Great songwriter, that one.
Curveboy wrote: ↑Fri Sep 13, 2019 2:34 pmBetter than anything Ace has come up with in 40 years.LordThurisaz wrote: ↑Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:52 pm
Yeah, it is. For one, his note diarrhea is all over the song, and for another, the vocals sound horrid. Great songwriter, that one.
ASG is awesome!Sssnakester wrote: ↑Fri Sep 13, 2019 7:53 am I know it's an unpopular view around here but I really love 'All Systems Go'. Of course his contributions to KISS were awesome and I really dig the Egyptian Warrior character.
at least you admit he was a hair metal guy instead of a shredder because he is nowhere near shredder status.TheSphinx wrote: ↑Fri Aug 23, 2019 4:54 pm Vinnie Saving KISS
That is Vinnie's finest moment.
Love this VH1 article from 2015. Although, he should have been named the #1 most under-rated hair metal guitarist, they did put him at #2.
#2 Vinnie Vincent – Kiss/Vinnie Vincent Invasion
Vinnie Vincent saved Kiss. No two ways about it.
As Kiss’s record sales and concert attendance dwindled in the early ’80s, former Vincent John Cusano started as a session player on the 1982 Creatures of the Nightalbum before strapping on the requisite platform boots and painting his face to become the “Ankh Warrior” as departing guitar lord Ace Frehley’s official replacement.
The following year, Kiss famously ditched their makeup, emboldened not just by Vinnie’s daredevil guitar playing, but also by his absolutely top-tier skills as a songwriter. Just as Kiss has adapted to late-’70s disco with “I Was Made for Loving You,” Vinnie Vincent multiple talents would mega-successfully launch the band into the hair metal ’80s.
Vinnie co-wrote eight of the ten songs on 1983’s transitional smash Lick It Up, including the instant-classic title track, which remains one of Kiss’s true signature anthems, and the full-blown rump-stomper “All Hell’s Breakin’ Loose.”
Alas, Vinnie’s Kiss tenure proved short-lived. Business tensions and some onstage antics such as an unexpected, off-the-wall guitar solo at a March 1984 Quebec gig at the end of the Lick It Up tour prompted Kiss to fire Vinnie immediately. He went on to form the Vinnie Vincent Invasion, which put out two albums that have become fan favorites: a self-titled debut in 1986, and All Systems Go, two years later.
In the years since, Vinnie Vincent has become a mysterious figure and even the object of cult devotion. Rolling Stone even ran a 2014 article titled “The Long Kiss Goodbye: The Search for Vinnie Vincent.”
Vinnie has certainly earned every bit of this admiration and fascination.
The only thing I would take issue with is Vinnie wasn't fired. Vinnie went AWOL. KISS was begging him to return. Gene even got Diana Ross to call him. Vinnie refused to come back.
LordThurisaz wrote: ↑Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:52 pmYeah, it is. For one, his note diarrhea is all over the song, and for another, the vocals sound horrid. Great songwriter, that one.
…That's a good point,because I turned it off pretty much immediately.It is because he believes you can play anything over any chord. Marty Friedman might shy away from getting too in depth with theory when he dissects his playing, but his style is SO much more engaging, melodic, and impressive no matter what speed he plays at.steve wrote: ↑Fri Sep 13, 2019 8:53 pm I believe Vinnie's finest moments were as a co-writer for KISS and that's the only capacity they should have engaged him in. The first and only choice for Frehley's replacement ought to have been Bruce.
Left to his own devices, VV has no discipline or restraint. I feel there are some good ideas on the first Invasion album (less so on ASG, which I don't like), but he ruins them by soloing over the top of them in a way that has nothing to do with the riff going on underneath.
METAL-N-ROLL was the best description of the new TURBO CHARGED KISStommy d wrote: ↑Fri Sep 13, 2019 6:39 pmat least you admit he was a hair metal guy instead of a shredder because he is nowhere near shredder status.TheSphinx wrote: ↑Fri Aug 23, 2019 4:54 pm Vinnie Saving KISS
That is Vinnie's finest moment.
Love this VH1 article from 2015. Although, he should have been named the #1 most under-rated hair metal guitarist, they did put him at #2.
#2 Vinnie Vincent – Kiss/Vinnie Vincent Invasion
Vinnie Vincent saved Kiss. No two ways about it.
As Kiss’s record sales and concert attendance dwindled in the early ’80s, former Vincent John Cusano started as a session player on the 1982 Creatures of the Nightalbum before strapping on the requisite platform boots and painting his face to become the “Ankh Warrior” as departing guitar lord Ace Frehley’s official replacement.
The following year, Kiss famously ditched their makeup, emboldened not just by Vinnie’s daredevil guitar playing, but also by his absolutely top-tier skills as a songwriter. Just as Kiss has adapted to late-’70s disco with “I Was Made for Loving You,” Vinnie Vincent multiple talents would mega-successfully launch the band into the hair metal ’80s.
Vinnie co-wrote eight of the ten songs on 1983’s transitional smash Lick It Up, including the instant-classic title track, which remains one of Kiss’s true signature anthems, and the full-blown rump-stomper “All Hell’s Breakin’ Loose.”
Alas, Vinnie’s Kiss tenure proved short-lived. Business tensions and some onstage antics such as an unexpected, off-the-wall guitar solo at a March 1984 Quebec gig at the end of the Lick It Up tour prompted Kiss to fire Vinnie immediately. He went on to form the Vinnie Vincent Invasion, which put out two albums that have become fan favorites: a self-titled debut in 1986, and All Systems Go, two years later.
In the years since, Vinnie Vincent has become a mysterious figure and even the object of cult devotion. Rolling Stone even ran a 2014 article titled “The Long Kiss Goodbye: The Search for Vinnie Vincent.”
Vinnie has certainly earned every bit of this admiration and fascination.
The only thing I would take issue with is Vinnie wasn't fired. Vinnie went AWOL. KISS was begging him to return. Gene even got Diana Ross to call him. Vinnie refused to come back.
