Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

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Wiped Out 78
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Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Post by Wiped Out 78 » Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:55 am

EggFlip wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:04 am
In reply to the sphinx staying chrysalis were incompetent well they certainly were not incompetent in selling millions of slaughter albums with the same team.
I don't know if Chrysalis were incompetent, but Mark Slaughter did an interview with DecibelGeek, where he stated that Chrysalis really stepped up their promotion game for the first Slaughter album. Far beyond what they had done for VVI.

That being said, VVI was always destined to implode eventually. Once they became the "Vinnie Vincent Invasion Featuring Mark Slaughter", the writing was on the wall.

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Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Post by TheSphinx » Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:31 am

LordThurisaz wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:38 am
I highly doubt his dreck sold faster than Billy Idol.

I went back and edited it. I had left off "debut". Invasion was the fastest selling debut in the history of Chrysalis. It had to do with the first month of sales. I think they were already on their 3rd pressing. The initial pressing was 50K. That was gone before the first week was out.

And there was a problem at the plant and there was a delay I believe right around October.


And his "All Systems Go" album even sold faster. All Systems Go shipped 250,000 units. Within a month, many stores were already on their 3rd order.


And by the time "featuring Mark Slaughter" appeared ... it was already pretty much over with Vinnie/ Chrysalis.

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Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Post by PterCriss » Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:09 pm

TheSphinx wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:14 am
Red_Walrus wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:55 am
I got a few questions.What would Animalize looked like if VV stayed. What songs off VV Invasion would have made it.I think it would have been huge. Pauls songs were great and he had the hit with "HOF" but if VV could have bolstered up Genes songs and also included some of his own it would have been killer. Anyone have a playlist of what could have been?

So what came next? An album that is basically demos. One that had sold so poorly, Chrysalis did a survey during the HITS tour trying to figure out why people weren't buying KISS albums. Yes, "Forever" as a $1.50 cassingle sold well but it didn't move albums.

Actually - every Kiss fan knows Crazy Nights followed Asylum not HITS like you so easy revised and inserted. We also know Vinnie lost his mind and went AWOL. So your timeline and comments should end when Vinnie went crazy.

Also you might want to include talking about Smashed Thrashes and Hits and how it sold 2 million pr 2.5 million and has Let's Put the X in Sex as a single. I don't think anyone has figured out how that album sold so much and it had nothing to do with Vinnie. By the time 1987 rolled around Vinnie was an after thought in Kiss. If anyone talked about anyone coming back it was always - when is Ace coming back, not Vinnie.

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Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Post by TheSphinx » Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:53 pm

PterCriss wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:09 pm
TheSphinx wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:14 am
Red_Walrus wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:55 am
I got a few questions.What would Animalize looked like if VV stayed. What songs off VV Invasion would have made it.I think it would have been huge. Pauls songs were great and he had the hit with "HOF" but if VV could have bolstered up Genes songs and also included some of his own it would have been killer. Anyone have a playlist of what could have been?

So what came next? An album that is basically demos. One that had sold so poorly, Chrysalis did a survey during the HITS tour trying to figure out why people weren't buying KISS albums. Yes, "Forever" as a $1.50 cassingle sold well but it didn't move albums.

Actually - every Kiss fan knows Crazy Nights followed Asylum not HITS like you so easy revised and inserted. We also know Vinnie lost his mind and went AWOL. So your timeline and comments should end when Vinnie went crazy.

Also you might want to include talking about Smashed Thrashes and Hits and how it sold 2 million pr 2.5 million and has Let's Put the X in Sex as a single. I don't think anyone has figured out how that album sold so much and it had nothing to do with Vinnie. By the time 1987 rolled around Vinnie was an after thought in Kiss. If anyone talked about anyone coming back it was always - when is Ace coming back, not Vinnie.
I have no idea what you are talking about. The only thing I edited in that post was Invasion was the fastest selling DEBUT album. I put in debut.


Look how bad Asylum did. You didn't see it ship platinum. They spent more money on videos trying to push that album. That one got 3 and it still didn't sell well. And because Asylum did so poorly it went to the "two year plan" on Crazy Nights. The one thing that did help KISS during the time was they began to play up the nostalgia again. The makeup times were back thanks to eXposed being released prior to CN coming out. Crazy Nights can't be looked upon as any success at all. The tour was hemorrhaging money they couldn't even afford to keep paying a keyboard player to stay on tour with them. And they had to pay Ted Nugent decent bucks to help fill some seats.

So what came next? An album that is basically demos. One that had sold so poorly, Chrysalis did a survey during the HITS tour trying to figure out why people weren't buying KISS albums. Yes, "Forever" as a $1.50 cassingle sold well but it didn't move albums.


Other people have quoted it and you can see its the same in their quotes of my post. So what are you lying about?

I've also mocked people for using Billboard's top charting #'s and length as if it proves anything when ST&H was their biggest seller but you wouldn't know that from its chart history. It's sales shouldn't have come as any big surprise. Kiss was pushing the makeup past (since Exposed). It was a new Greatest Hits cd. Cd's had been taking off. It was a great time for people to get a Greatest Hits collection of KISS with old and newer songs like I Love It Loud, Lick It Up.

How long did it take Ace to get a record deal? If Eddie Trunk hadn't given him one would he have ever gotten one?
Ace was relying on Vinnie just like KISS. I mean Ace was playing "Back On The Streets". Then Ace had to rely on a Paul Stanley song. Pretty pathetic of him to record "Hide Your Heart". Ace's most known single from his comeback "Into The Night". One more song Ace didn't write just like his hit NY Groove. Then one of his singles was "Do Ya". A hit songwriting machine he was.
Last edited by TheSphinx on Thu Aug 22, 2019 8:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Post by AllCanadianMan » Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:05 pm

TheSphinx wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:53 pm
PterCriss wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:09 pm
TheSphinx wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:14 am
Red_Walrus wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:55 am
I got a few questions.What would Animalize looked like if VV stayed. What songs off VV Invasion would have made it.I think it would have been huge. Pauls songs were great and he had the hit with "HOF" but if VV could have bolstered up Genes songs and also included some of his own it would have been killer. Anyone have a playlist of what could have been?

So what came next? An album that is basically demos. One that had sold so poorly, Chrysalis did a survey during the HITS tour trying to figure out why people weren't buying KISS albums. Yes, "Forever" as a $1.50 cassingle sold well but it didn't move albums.

Actually - every Kiss fan knows Crazy Nights followed Asylum not HITS like you so easy revised and inserted. We also know Vinnie lost his mind and went AWOL. So your timeline and comments should end when Vinnie went crazy.

Also you might want to include talking about Smashed Thrashes and Hits and how it sold 2 million pr 2.5 million and has Let's Put the X in Sex as a single. I don't think anyone has figured out how that album sold so much and it had nothing to do with Vinnie. By the time 1987 rolled around Vinnie was an after thought in Kiss. If anyone talked about anyone coming back it was always - when is Ace coming back, not Vinnie.
I have no idea what you are talking about. The only thing I edited in that post was Invasion was the fastest selling DEBUT album. I put in debut.


Look how bad Asylum did. You didn't see it ship platinum. They spent more money on videos trying to push that album. That one got 3 and it still didn't sell well. And because Asylum did so poorly it went to the "two year plan" on Crazy Nights. The one thing that did help KISS during the time was they began to play up the nostalgia again. The makeup times were back thanks to eXposed being released prior to CN coming out. Crazy Nights can't be looked upon as any success at all. The tour was hemorrhaging money they couldn't even afford to keep paying a keyboard player to stay on tour with them. And they had to pay Ted Nugent decent bucks to help fill some seats.

So what came next? An album that is basically demos. One that had sold so poorly, Chrysalis did a survey during the HITS tour trying to figure out why people weren't buying KISS albums. Yes, "Forever" as a $1.50 cassingle sold well but it didn't move albums.


Other people have quoted it and you can see its the same in their quotes of my post. So what are you lying about?

I've also mocked people for using Billboard's top charting #'s and length as if it proves anything when ST&H was their biggest seller but you wouldn't know that from its chart history. It's sales shouldn't have come as any big surprise. Kiss was pushing the makeup past (since Exposed). It was a new Greatest Hits cd. Cd's had been taking off. It was a great time for people to get a Greatest Hits collection of KISS with old and newer songs like I Love It Loud, Lick It Up.

How long did it take Ace to get a record deal? If Eddie Trunk hadn't given him one would he have ever gotten one?
Ace was relying on Vinnie just like KISS. I mean Ace was playing "Back On The Streets". Then Ace had to rely on a Paul Stanley song. Pretty pathetic of him to record "Hide Your Heart". Ace's most known single from his comeback "Into The Night". One more song Ace didn't write just like his hit NY Groove. Then one of his singles was "Do Ya". A hit songwriting machine he was.
I know I checked out being a fan in the 80’s but why would Chrysalis have done a survey of why KISS albums weren’t selling? If I recall they never were on that label????

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Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Post by nibbler1982 » Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:16 pm

TheSphinx wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:53 pm
PterCriss wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:09 pm
TheSphinx wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:14 am
Red_Walrus wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:55 am
I got a few questions.What would Animalize looked like if VV stayed. What songs off VV Invasion would have made it.I think it would have been huge. Pauls songs were great and he had the hit with "HOF" but if VV could have bolstered up Genes songs and also included some of his own it would have been killer. Anyone have a playlist of what could have been?

So what came next? An album that is basically demos. One that had sold so poorly, Chrysalis did a survey during the HITS tour trying to figure out why people weren't buying KISS albums. Yes, "Forever" as a $1.50 cassingle sold well but it didn't move albums.

Actually - every Kiss fan knows Crazy Nights followed Asylum not HITS like you so easy revised and inserted. We also know Vinnie lost his mind and went AWOL. So your timeline and comments should end when Vinnie went crazy.

Also you might want to include talking about Smashed Thrashes and Hits and how it sold 2 million pr 2.5 million and has Let's Put the X in Sex as a single. I don't think anyone has figured out how that album sold so much and it had nothing to do with Vinnie. By the time 1987 rolled around Vinnie was an after thought in Kiss. If anyone talked about anyone coming back it was always - when is Ace coming back, not Vinnie.
I have no idea what you are talking about. The only thing I edited in that post was Invasion was the fastest selling DEBUT album. I put in debut.


Look how bad Asylum did. You didn't see it ship platinum. They spent more money on videos trying to push that album. That one got 3 and it still didn't sell well. And because Asylum did so poorly it went to the "two year plan" on Crazy Nights. The one thing that did help KISS during the time was they began to play up the nostalgia again. The makeup times were back thanks to eXposed being released prior to CN coming out. Crazy Nights can't be looked upon as any success at all. The tour was hemorrhaging money they couldn't even afford to keep paying a keyboard player to stay on tour with them. And they had to pay Ted Nugent decent bucks to help fill some seats.

So what came next? An album that is basically demos. One that had sold so poorly, Chrysalis did a survey during the HITS tour trying to figure out why people weren't buying KISS albums. Yes, "Forever" as a $1.50 cassingle sold well but it didn't move albums.


Other people have quoted it and you can see its the same in their quotes of my post. So what are you lying about?

I've also mocked people for using Billboard's top charting #'s and length as if it proves anything when ST&H was their biggest seller but you wouldn't know that from its chart history. It's sales shouldn't have come as any big surprise. Kiss was pushing the makeup past (since Exposed). It was a new Greatest Hits cd. Cd's had been taking off. It was a great time for people to get a Greatest Hits collection of KISS with old and newer songs like I Love It Loud, Lick It Up.

How long did it take Ace to get a record deal? If Eddie Trunk hadn't given him one would he have ever gotten one?
Ace was relying on Vinnie just like KISS. I mean Ace was playing "Back On The Streets". Then Ace had to rely on a Paul Stanley song. Pretty pathetic of him to record "Hide Your Heart". Ace's most known single from his comeback "Into The Night". One more song Ace didn't write just like his hit NY Groove. Then one of his singles was "Do Ya". A hit songwriting machine he was.
YOOOOOOOOOOOOOO MY BROTHER SPHINXIE!!!!!!!!

Where the hell you been my man?!?!?!?

Brah...it’s soooo good to see your name pop up on the boards. I couldn’t believe my eyes. I sincerely and genuinely hope all is well with you and yours. It’s so good to have you back.

Our donnybrooks are what legends are made of. The nice thing is the threads never got locked. Don’t get me wrong...those were some dogfights and we did sling a little mud here and there but we always kept a level of civility to it. Good times. Good times.

There’s a new guy on here who shall remain nameless that does remind me of you. He’s got your tenacity for sure...but none of your intelligence and style. He always has me thinking about the good ol’ days.

I tip my hat to the return of a most worthy opponent.

(Now back to our regularly scheduled program)

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Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Post by PterCriss » Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:15 pm

TheSphinx wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:53 pm
PterCriss wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:09 pm
TheSphinx wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:14 am
Red_Walrus wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:55 am
I got a few questions.What would Animalize looked like if VV stayed. What songs off VV Invasion would have made it.I think it would have been huge. Pauls songs were great and he had the hit with "HOF" but if VV could have bolstered up Genes songs and also included some of his own it would have been killer. Anyone have a playlist of what could have been?

So what came next? An album that is basically demos. One that had sold so poorly, Chrysalis did a survey during the HITS tour trying to figure out why people weren't buying KISS albums. Yes, "Forever" as a $1.50 cassingle sold well but it didn't move albums.

Actually - every Kiss fan knows Crazy Nights followed Asylum not HITS like you so easy revised and inserted. We also know Vinnie lost his mind and went AWOL. So your timeline and comments should end when Vinnie went crazy.

Also you might want to include talking about Smashed Thrashes and Hits and how it sold 2 million pr 2.5 million and has Let's Put the X in Sex as a single. I don't think anyone has figured out how that album sold so much and it had nothing to do with Vinnie. By the time 1987 rolled around Vinnie was an after thought in Kiss. If anyone talked about anyone coming back it was always - when is Ace coming back, not Vinnie.
I have no idea what you are talking about. The only thing I edited in that post was Invasion was the fastest selling DEBUT album. I put in debut.


Look how bad Asylum did. You didn't see it ship platinum. They spent more money on videos trying to push that album. That one got 3 and it still didn't sell well. And because Asylum did so poorly it went to the "two year plan" on Crazy Nights. The one thing that did help KISS during the time was they began to play up the nostalgia again. The makeup times were back thanks to eXposed being released prior to CN coming out. Crazy Nights can't be looked upon as any success at all. The tour was hemorrhaging money they couldn't even afford to keep paying a keyboard player to stay on tour with them. And they had to pay Ted Nugent decent bucks to help fill some seats.

So what came next? An album that is basically demos. One that had sold so poorly, Chrysalis did a survey during the HITS tour trying to figure out why people weren't buying KISS albums. Yes, "Forever" as a $1.50 cassingle sold well but it didn't move albums.


Other people have quoted it and you can see its the same in their quotes of my post. So what are you lying about?

I've also mocked people for using Billboard's top charting #'s and length as if it proves anything when ST&H was their biggest seller but you wouldn't know that from its chart history. It's sales shouldn't have come as any big surprise. Kiss was pushing the makeup past (since Exposed). It was a new Greatest Hits cd. Cd's had been taking off. It was a great time for people to get a Greatest Hits collection of KISS with old and newer songs like I Love It Loud, Lick It Up.

How long did it take Ace to get a record deal? If Eddie Trunk hadn't given him one would he have ever gotten one?
Ace was relying on Vinnie just like KISS. I mean Ace was playing "Back On The Streets". Then Ace had to rely on a Paul Stanley song. Pretty pathetic of him to record "Hide Your Heart". Ace's most known single from his comeback "Into The Night". One more song Ace didn't write just like his hit NY Groove. Then one of his singles was "Do Ya". A hit songwriting machine he was.
"Look how bad Asylum did. You didn't see it ship platinum. They spent more money on videos trying to push that album. That one got 3 and it still didn't sell well. And because Asylum did so poorly it went to the "two year plan" on Crazy Nights. The one thing that did help KISS during the time was they began to play up the nostalgia again. The makeup times were back thanks to eXposed being released prior to CN coming out. Crazy Nights can't be looked upon as any success at all. The tour was hemorrhaging money they couldn't even afford to keep paying a keyboard player to stay on tour with them. And they had to pay Ted Nugent decent bucks to help fill some seats.

"So what came next? An album that is basically demos. One that had sold so poorly, Chrysalis did a survey during the HITS tour trying to figure out why people weren't buying KISS albums. Yes, "Forever" as a $1.50 cassingle sold well but it didn't move albums."


So what came next? Again you somehow missed Kiss' biggest album in the 1980's in Smashes Thrashes and Hits. Why ignore this album?

So what came next was the 2.5 million selling Smashes Thrashes and Hits. Then came Hot In The Shade which was Kiss best tour since Dynasty (you like how I just skipped Vinnie' tour) ?

And why would Chrysalis do a survey on Kiss albums?

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Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Post by PterCriss » Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:19 pm

nibbler1982 wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:16 pm
TheSphinx wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:53 pm
PterCriss wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:09 pm
TheSphinx wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:14 am
Red_Walrus wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:55 am
I got a few questions.What would Animalize looked like if VV stayed. What songs off VV Invasion would have made it.I think it would have been huge. Pauls songs were great and he had the hit with "HOF" but if VV could have bolstered up Genes songs and also included some of his own it would have been killer. Anyone have a playlist of what could have been?

So what came next? An album that is basically demos. One that had sold so poorly, Chrysalis did a survey during the HITS tour trying to figure out why people weren't buying KISS albums. Yes, "Forever" as a $1.50 cassingle sold well but it didn't move albums.

Actually - every Kiss fan knows Crazy Nights followed Asylum not HITS like you so easy revised and inserted. We also know Vinnie lost his mind and went AWOL. So your timeline and comments should end when Vinnie went crazy.

Also you might want to include talking about Smashed Thrashes and Hits and how it sold 2 million pr 2.5 million and has Let's Put the X in Sex as a single. I don't think anyone has figured out how that album sold so much and it had nothing to do with Vinnie. By the time 1987 rolled around Vinnie was an after thought in Kiss. If anyone talked about anyone coming back it was always - when is Ace coming back, not Vinnie.
I have no idea what you are talking about. The only thing I edited in that post was Invasion was the fastest selling DEBUT album. I put in debut.


Look how bad Asylum did. You didn't see it ship platinum. They spent more money on videos trying to push that album. That one got 3 and it still didn't sell well. And because Asylum did so poorly it went to the "two year plan" on Crazy Nights. The one thing that did help KISS during the time was they began to play up the nostalgia again. The makeup times were back thanks to eXposed being released prior to CN coming out. Crazy Nights can't be looked upon as any success at all. The tour was hemorrhaging money they couldn't even afford to keep paying a keyboard player to stay on tour with them. And they had to pay Ted Nugent decent bucks to help fill some seats.

So what came next? An album that is basically demos. One that had sold so poorly, Chrysalis did a survey during the HITS tour trying to figure out why people weren't buying KISS albums. Yes, "Forever" as a $1.50 cassingle sold well but it didn't move albums.


Other people have quoted it and you can see its the same in their quotes of my post. So what are you lying about?

I've also mocked people for using Billboard's top charting #'s and length as if it proves anything when ST&H was their biggest seller but you wouldn't know that from its chart history. It's sales shouldn't have come as any big surprise. Kiss was pushing the makeup past (since Exposed). It was a new Greatest Hits cd. Cd's had been taking off. It was a great time for people to get a Greatest Hits collection of KISS with old and newer songs like I Love It Loud, Lick It Up.

How long did it take Ace to get a record deal? If Eddie Trunk hadn't given him one would he have ever gotten one?
Ace was relying on Vinnie just like KISS. I mean Ace was playing "Back On The Streets". Then Ace had to rely on a Paul Stanley song. Pretty pathetic of him to record "Hide Your Heart". Ace's most known single from his comeback "Into The Night". One more song Ace didn't write just like his hit NY Groove. Then one of his singles was "Do Ya". A hit songwriting machine he was.
YOOOOOOOOOOOOOO MY BROTHER SPHINXIE!!!!!!!!

Where the hell you been my man?!?!?!?

Brah...it’s soooo good to see your name pop up on the boards. I couldn’t believe my eyes. I sincerely and genuinely hope all is well with you and yours. It’s so good to have you back.

Our donnybrooks are what legends are made of. The nice thing is the threads never got locked. Don’t get me wrong...those were some dogfights and we did sling a little mud here and there but we always kept a level of civility to it. Good times. Good times.

There’s a new guy on here who shall remain nameless that does remind me of you. He’s got your tenacity for sure...but none of your intelligence and style. He always has me thinking about the good ol’ days.

I tip my hat to the return of a most worthy opponent.

(Now back to our regularly scheduled program)
I don't swing that way but glad my tenacity reminds you of your Broke Back Mountain days with Sphinxy. Lol.

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Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Post by nibbler1982 » Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:22 pm

PterCriss wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:19 pm
nibbler1982 wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:16 pm
TheSphinx wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:53 pm
PterCriss wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:09 pm
TheSphinx wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:14 am
Red_Walrus wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:55 am
I got a few questions.What would Animalize looked like if VV stayed. What songs off VV Invasion would have made it.I think it would have been huge. Pauls songs were great and he had the hit with "HOF" but if VV could have bolstered up Genes songs and also included some of his own it would have been killer. Anyone have a playlist of what could have been?

So what came next? An album that is basically demos. One that had sold so poorly, Chrysalis did a survey during the HITS tour trying to figure out why people weren't buying KISS albums. Yes, "Forever" as a $1.50 cassingle sold well but it didn't move albums.

Actually - every Kiss fan knows Crazy Nights followed Asylum not HITS like you so easy revised and inserted. We also know Vinnie lost his mind and went AWOL. So your timeline and comments should end when Vinnie went crazy.

Also you might want to include talking about Smashed Thrashes and Hits and how it sold 2 million pr 2.5 million and has Let's Put the X in Sex as a single. I don't think anyone has figured out how that album sold so much and it had nothing to do with Vinnie. By the time 1987 rolled around Vinnie was an after thought in Kiss. If anyone talked about anyone coming back it was always - when is Ace coming back, not Vinnie.
I have no idea what you are talking about. The only thing I edited in that post was Invasion was the fastest selling DEBUT album. I put in debut.


Look how bad Asylum did. You didn't see it ship platinum. They spent more money on videos trying to push that album. That one got 3 and it still didn't sell well. And because Asylum did so poorly it went to the "two year plan" on Crazy Nights. The one thing that did help KISS during the time was they began to play up the nostalgia again. The makeup times were back thanks to eXposed being released prior to CN coming out. Crazy Nights can't be looked upon as any success at all. The tour was hemorrhaging money they couldn't even afford to keep paying a keyboard player to stay on tour with them. And they had to pay Ted Nugent decent bucks to help fill some seats.

So what came next? An album that is basically demos. One that had sold so poorly, Chrysalis did a survey during the HITS tour trying to figure out why people weren't buying KISS albums. Yes, "Forever" as a $1.50 cassingle sold well but it didn't move albums.


Other people have quoted it and you can see its the same in their quotes of my post. So what are you lying about?

I've also mocked people for using Billboard's top charting #'s and length as if it proves anything when ST&H was their biggest seller but you wouldn't know that from its chart history. It's sales shouldn't have come as any big surprise. Kiss was pushing the makeup past (since Exposed). It was a new Greatest Hits cd. Cd's had been taking off. It was a great time for people to get a Greatest Hits collection of KISS with old and newer songs like I Love It Loud, Lick It Up.

How long did it take Ace to get a record deal? If Eddie Trunk hadn't given him one would he have ever gotten one?
Ace was relying on Vinnie just like KISS. I mean Ace was playing "Back On The Streets". Then Ace had to rely on a Paul Stanley song. Pretty pathetic of him to record "Hide Your Heart". Ace's most known single from his comeback "Into The Night". One more song Ace didn't write just like his hit NY Groove. Then one of his singles was "Do Ya". A hit songwriting machine he was.
YOOOOOOOOOOOOOO MY BROTHER SPHINXIE!!!!!!!!

Where the hell you been my man?!?!?!?

Brah...it’s soooo good to see your name pop up on the boards. I couldn’t believe my eyes. I sincerely and genuinely hope all is well with you and yours. It’s so good to have you back.

Our donnybrooks are what legends are made of. The nice thing is the threads never got locked. Don’t get me wrong...those were some dogfights and we did sling a little mud here and there but we always kept a level of civility to it. Good times. Good times.

There’s a new guy on here who shall remain nameless that does remind me of you. He’s got your tenacity for sure...but none of your intelligence and style. He always has me thinking about the good ol’ days.

I tip my hat to the return of a most worthy opponent.

(Now back to our regularly scheduled program)
I don't swing that way but glad my tenacity reminds you of your Broke Back Mountain days with Sphinxy. Lol.
Who was talking about you and what does Broke Back Mountain have to do with this conversation?

User avatar
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Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Post by PterCriss » Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:31 pm

nibbler1982 wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:22 pm
PterCriss wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:19 pm
nibbler1982 wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:16 pm
TheSphinx wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:53 pm
PterCriss wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:09 pm
TheSphinx wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:14 am
Red_Walrus wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:55 am
I got a few questions.What would Animalize looked like if VV stayed. What songs off VV Invasion would have made it.I think it would have been huge. Pauls songs were great and he had the hit with "HOF" but if VV could have bolstered up Genes songs and also included some of his own it would have been killer. Anyone have a playlist of what could have been?

So what came next? An album that is basically demos. One that had sold so poorly, Chrysalis did a survey during the HITS tour trying to figure out why people weren't buying KISS albums. Yes, "Forever" as a $1.50 cassingle sold well but it didn't move albums.

Actually - every Kiss fan knows Crazy Nights followed Asylum not HITS like you so easy revised and inserted. We also know Vinnie lost his mind and went AWOL. So your timeline and comments should end when Vinnie went crazy.

Also you might want to include talking about Smashed Thrashes and Hits and how it sold 2 million pr 2.5 million and has Let's Put the X in Sex as a single. I don't think anyone has figured out how that album sold so much and it had nothing to do with Vinnie. By the time 1987 rolled around Vinnie was an after thought in Kiss. If anyone talked about anyone coming back it was always - when is Ace coming back, not Vinnie.
I have no idea what you are talking about. The only thing I edited in that post was Invasion was the fastest selling DEBUT album. I put in debut.


Look how bad Asylum did. You didn't see it ship platinum. They spent more money on videos trying to push that album. That one got 3 and it still didn't sell well. And because Asylum did so poorly it went to the "two year plan" on Crazy Nights. The one thing that did help KISS during the time was they began to play up the nostalgia again. The makeup times were back thanks to eXposed being released prior to CN coming out. Crazy Nights can't be looked upon as any success at all. The tour was hemorrhaging money they couldn't even afford to keep paying a keyboard player to stay on tour with them. And they had to pay Ted Nugent decent bucks to help fill some seats.

So what came next? An album that is basically demos. One that had sold so poorly, Chrysalis did a survey during the HITS tour trying to figure out why people weren't buying KISS albums. Yes, "Forever" as a $1.50 cassingle sold well but it didn't move albums.


Other people have quoted it and you can see its the same in their quotes of my post. So what are you lying about?

I've also mocked people for using Billboard's top charting #'s and length as if it proves anything when ST&H was their biggest seller but you wouldn't know that from its chart history. It's sales shouldn't have come as any big surprise. Kiss was pushing the makeup past (since Exposed). It was a new Greatest Hits cd. Cd's had been taking off. It was a great time for people to get a Greatest Hits collection of KISS with old and newer songs like I Love It Loud, Lick It Up.

How long did it take Ace to get a record deal? If Eddie Trunk hadn't given him one would he have ever gotten one?
Ace was relying on Vinnie just like KISS. I mean Ace was playing "Back On The Streets". Then Ace had to rely on a Paul Stanley song. Pretty pathetic of him to record "Hide Your Heart". Ace's most known single from his comeback "Into The Night". One more song Ace didn't write just like his hit NY Groove. Then one of his singles was "Do Ya". A hit songwriting machine he was.
YOOOOOOOOOOOOOO MY BROTHER SPHINXIE!!!!!!!!

Where the hell you been my man?!?!?!?

Brah...it’s soooo good to see your name pop up on the boards. I couldn’t believe my eyes. I sincerely and genuinely hope all is well with you and yours. It’s so good to have you back.

Our donnybrooks are what legends are made of. The nice thing is the threads never got locked. Don’t get me wrong...those were some dogfights and we did sling a little mud here and there but we always kept a level of civility to it. Good times. Good times.

There’s a new guy on here who shall remain nameless that does remind me of you. He’s got your tenacity for sure...but none of your intelligence and style. He always has me thinking about the good ol’ days.

I tip my hat to the return of a most worthy opponent.

(Now back to our regularly scheduled program)
I don't swing that way but glad my tenacity reminds you of your Broke Back Mountain days with Sphinxy. Lol.
Who was talking about you and what does Broke Back Mountain have to do with this conversation?
Nibbs comments to Sphinxy - Brah...it’s soooo good to see your name pop up on the boards. I couldn’t believe my eyes.

Nibbs commenting about me. "There’s a new guy on here who shall remain nameless that does remind me of you. He’s got your tenacity for sure."

Nibbs continued about me - "He always has me thinking about the good ol’ days."

I'm flattered that you're always thinking about me. I am the new guy and the only one that has gone back and forth as much as we have over tickets sold vs gross receipts.

User avatar
nibbler1982
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Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Post by nibbler1982 » Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:44 pm

PterCriss wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:31 pm
nibbler1982 wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:22 pm
PterCriss wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:19 pm
nibbler1982 wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:16 pm
TheSphinx wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:53 pm
PterCriss wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:09 pm
TheSphinx wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:14 am
Red_Walrus wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:55 am
I got a few questions.What would Animalize looked like if VV stayed. What songs off VV Invasion would have made it.I think it would have been huge. Pauls songs were great and he had the hit with "HOF" but if VV could have bolstered up Genes songs and also included some of his own it would have been killer. Anyone have a playlist of what could have been?

So what came next? An album that is basically demos. One that had sold so poorly, Chrysalis did a survey during the HITS tour trying to figure out why people weren't buying KISS albums. Yes, "Forever" as a $1.50 cassingle sold well but it didn't move albums.

Actually - every Kiss fan knows Crazy Nights followed Asylum not HITS like you so easy revised and inserted. We also know Vinnie lost his mind and went AWOL. So your timeline and comments should end when Vinnie went crazy.

Also you might want to include talking about Smashed Thrashes and Hits and how it sold 2 million pr 2.5 million and has Let's Put the X in Sex as a single. I don't think anyone has figured out how that album sold so much and it had nothing to do with Vinnie. By the time 1987 rolled around Vinnie was an after thought in Kiss. If anyone talked about anyone coming back it was always - when is Ace coming back, not Vinnie.
I have no idea what you are talking about. The only thing I edited in that post was Invasion was the fastest selling DEBUT album. I put in debut.


Look how bad Asylum did. You didn't see it ship platinum. They spent more money on videos trying to push that album. That one got 3 and it still didn't sell well. And because Asylum did so poorly it went to the "two year plan" on Crazy Nights. The one thing that did help KISS during the time was they began to play up the nostalgia again. The makeup times were back thanks to eXposed being released prior to CN coming out. Crazy Nights can't be looked upon as any success at all. The tour was hemorrhaging money they couldn't even afford to keep paying a keyboard player to stay on tour with them. And they had to pay Ted Nugent decent bucks to help fill some seats.

So what came next? An album that is basically demos. One that had sold so poorly, Chrysalis did a survey during the HITS tour trying to figure out why people weren't buying KISS albums. Yes, "Forever" as a $1.50 cassingle sold well but it didn't move albums.


Other people have quoted it and you can see its the same in their quotes of my post. So what are you lying about?

I've also mocked people for using Billboard's top charting #'s and length as if it proves anything when ST&H was their biggest seller but you wouldn't know that from its chart history. It's sales shouldn't have come as any big surprise. Kiss was pushing the makeup past (since Exposed). It was a new Greatest Hits cd. Cd's had been taking off. It was a great time for people to get a Greatest Hits collection of KISS with old and newer songs like I Love It Loud, Lick It Up.

How long did it take Ace to get a record deal? If Eddie Trunk hadn't given him one would he have ever gotten one?
Ace was relying on Vinnie just like KISS. I mean Ace was playing "Back On The Streets". Then Ace had to rely on a Paul Stanley song. Pretty pathetic of him to record "Hide Your Heart". Ace's most known single from his comeback "Into The Night". One more song Ace didn't write just like his hit NY Groove. Then one of his singles was "Do Ya". A hit songwriting machine he was.
YOOOOOOOOOOOOOO MY BROTHER SPHINXIE!!!!!!!!

Where the hell you been my man?!?!?!?

Brah...it’s soooo good to see your name pop up on the boards. I couldn’t believe my eyes. I sincerely and genuinely hope all is well with you and yours. It’s so good to have you back.

Our donnybrooks are what legends are made of. The nice thing is the threads never got locked. Don’t get me wrong...those were some dogfights and we did sling a little mud here and there but we always kept a level of civility to it. Good times. Good times.

There’s a new guy on here who shall remain nameless that does remind me of you. He’s got your tenacity for sure...but none of your intelligence and style. He always has me thinking about the good ol’ days.

I tip my hat to the return of a most worthy opponent.

(Now back to our regularly scheduled program)
I don't swing that way but glad my tenacity reminds you of your Broke Back Mountain days with Sphinxy. Lol.
Who was talking about you and what does Broke Back Mountain have to do with this conversation?
Nibbs comments to Sphinxy - Brah...it’s soooo good to see your name pop up on the boards. I couldn’t believe my eyes.

Nibbs commenting about me. "There’s a new guy on here who shall remain nameless that does remind me of you. He’s got your tenacity for sure."

Nibbs continued about me - "He always has me thinking about the good ol’ days."

I'm flattered that you're always thinking about me. I am the new guy and the only one that has gone back and forth as much as we have over tickets sold vs gross receipts.
Geez...I hate to bust your bubble but the comment wasn’t about you.

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Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Post by Phyllis Simmons » Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:11 pm

Thunderous_Lay wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 6:53 am
Gotta admit, few things in the world were as menacing-looking as KISS, circa late-1983...

Image

Just look at Gene; isn't he channeling unfiltered, unchecked menace ?

Better yet, just look at Cusano: scary vibes right there...
Im just glad they had the common sense to not dress like this for the cover of LIU! The fact that they are in good basic jackets and wearing stuff that is fine to wear today definitely helps it.. If they appeared like this on the cover? :shock: I think a few more people are shelving it as a relic for that time... :lol:

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Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Post by EggFlip » Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:52 pm

Totally wrong. All systems go was a massive flop. It sold nothing like what you say.

Vinnie kicked La guns off their tour as la guns were selling three times the shorts vvi were . Ended in a big fight at Harpo's in Detroit that Traci went to press about .

A tit bit too .. mark and Dana during the asg tour asked Traci to join their band they were forming which was to be called slaughterhouse
TheSphinx wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:31 am
LordThurisaz wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:38 am
I highly doubt his dreck sold faster than Billy Idol.

I went back and edited it. I had left off "debut". Invasion was the fastest selling debut in the history of Chrysalis. It had to do with the first month of sales. I think they were already on their 3rd pressing. The initial pressing was 50K. That was gone before the first week was out.

And there was a problem at the plant and there was a delay I believe right around October.


And his "All Systems Go" album even sold faster. All Systems Go shipped 250,000 units. Within a month, many stores were already on their 3rd order.


And by the time "featuring Mark Slaughter" appeared ... it was already pretty much over with Vinnie/ Chrysalis.

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Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Post by EggFlip » Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:58 pm

There were 10 thousand record stores in the states In 1988 all getting at least one copy on tape , cd and vinyl so already 30 thousand copies before one sale will have been shipped aprox

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Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Post by Lofton23rdSt » Wed Aug 21, 2019 5:56 pm

EggFlip wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:52 pm
Totally wrong. All systems go was a massive flop. It sold nothing like what you say.

Vinnie kicked La guns off their tour as la guns were selling three times the shorts vvi were . Ended in a big fight at Harpo's in Detroit that Traci went to press about .

They attacked Vinnie's guitar tech.

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Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Post by redinthesky » Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:24 pm

Doose wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 12:56 pm
Vinnie was successful in KISS because of Gene and Paul.
Vinnie was successful in the Invasion because of Dana and Mark.

Gene and Paul, and Mark and Dana, have gone on to greater success without Vinnie. And they continue to.
Even Blas Elias played with the Blue Man Group for 17 years, and is now playing with Trans-Siberian Orchestra.

Meanwhile, Vinnie is playing to 15 fans in a darkened rehearsal studio under a veil of paranoia and secrecy.

Who saved who?
Oh man, those are major zingaroos! And I couldn't agree more with all of them!

Vinnie didn't save jack squat. Kiss taking off the makeup saved them. Vinnie was along for the ride. "Animalize" had a great lead single in "Heaven's on Fire" and a great video for it, and it was a perfect "Kiss in 1984" album. Bye bye Vinnie, you were not needed. When he has no one's talents to leech off of, yup, he's playing a closet or a phone booth. I mean, not playing, "appearing" and serving cheap-ass salads.

Vinnie isn't even fit to tie Tommy Thayer's Ace boots.

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Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Post by PterCriss » Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:43 pm

nibbler1982 wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:44 pm
PterCriss wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:31 pm
nibbler1982 wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:22 pm
PterCriss wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:19 pm
nibbler1982 wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:16 pm
TheSphinx wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:53 pm
PterCriss wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:09 pm
TheSphinx wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:14 am
Red_Walrus wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:55 am
I got a few questions.What would Animalize looked like if VV stayed. What songs off VV Invasion would have made it.I think it would have been huge. Pauls songs were great and he had the hit with "HOF" but if VV could have bolstered up Genes songs and also included some of his own it would have been killer. Anyone have a playlist of what could have been?

So what came next? An album that is basically demos. One that had sold so poorly, Chrysalis did a survey during the HITS tour trying to figure out why people weren't buying KISS albums. Yes, "Forever" as a $1.50 cassingle sold well but it didn't move albums.

Actually - every Kiss fan knows Crazy Nights followed Asylum not HITS like you so easy revised and inserted. We also know Vinnie lost his mind and went AWOL. So your timeline and comments should end when Vinnie went crazy.

Also you might want to include talking about Smashed Thrashes and Hits and how it sold 2 million pr 2.5 million and has Let's Put the X in Sex as a single. I don't think anyone has figured out how that album sold so much and it had nothing to do with Vinnie. By the time 1987 rolled around Vinnie was an after thought in Kiss. If anyone talked about anyone coming back it was always - when is Ace coming back, not Vinnie.
I have no idea what you are talking about. The only thing I edited in that post was Invasion was the fastest selling DEBUT album. I put in debut.


Look how bad Asylum did. You didn't see it ship platinum. They spent more money on videos trying to push that album. That one got 3 and it still didn't sell well. And because Asylum did so poorly it went to the "two year plan" on Crazy Nights. The one thing that did help KISS during the time was they began to play up the nostalgia again. The makeup times were back thanks to eXposed being released prior to CN coming out. Crazy Nights can't be looked upon as any success at all. The tour was hemorrhaging money they couldn't even afford to keep paying a keyboard player to stay on tour with them. And they had to pay Ted Nugent decent bucks to help fill some seats.

So what came next? An album that is basically demos. One that had sold so poorly, Chrysalis did a survey during the HITS tour trying to figure out why people weren't buying KISS albums. Yes, "Forever" as a $1.50 cassingle sold well but it didn't move albums.


Other people have quoted it and you can see its the same in their quotes of my post. So what are you lying about?

I've also mocked people for using Billboard's top charting #'s and length as if it proves anything when ST&H was their biggest seller but you wouldn't know that from its chart history. It's sales shouldn't have come as any big surprise. Kiss was pushing the makeup past (since Exposed). It was a new Greatest Hits cd. Cd's had been taking off. It was a great time for people to get a Greatest Hits collection of KISS with old and newer songs like I Love It Loud, Lick It Up.

How long did it take Ace to get a record deal? If Eddie Trunk hadn't given him one would he have ever gotten one?
Ace was relying on Vinnie just like KISS. I mean Ace was playing "Back On The Streets". Then Ace had to rely on a Paul Stanley song. Pretty pathetic of him to record "Hide Your Heart". Ace's most known single from his comeback "Into The Night". One more song Ace didn't write just like his hit NY Groove. Then one of his singles was "Do Ya". A hit songwriting machine he was.
YOOOOOOOOOOOOOO MY BROTHER SPHINXIE!!!!!!!!

Where the hell you been my man?!?!?!?

Brah...it’s soooo good to see your name pop up on the boards. I couldn’t believe my eyes. I sincerely and genuinely hope all is well with you and yours. It’s so good to have you back.

Our donnybrooks are what legends are made of. The nice thing is the threads never got locked. Don’t get me wrong...those were some dogfights and we did sling a little mud here and there but we always kept a level of civility to it. Good times. Good times.

There’s a new guy on here who shall remain nameless that does remind me of you. He’s got your tenacity for sure...but none of your intelligence and style. He always has me thinking about the good ol’ days.

I tip my hat to the return of a most worthy opponent.

(Now back to our regularly scheduled program)
I don't swing that way but glad my tenacity reminds you of your Broke Back Mountain days with Sphinxy. Lol.
Who was talking about you and what does Broke Back Mountain have to do with this conversation?
Nibbs comments to Sphinxy - Brah...it’s soooo good to see your name pop up on the boards. I couldn’t believe my eyes.

Nibbs commenting about me. "There’s a new guy on here who shall remain nameless that does remind me of you. He’s got your tenacity for sure."

Nibbs continued about me - "He always has me thinking about the good ol’ days."

I'm flattered that you're always thinking about me. I am the new guy and the only one that has gone back and forth as much as we have over tickets sold vs gross receipts.
Geez...I hate to bust your bubble but the comment wasn’t about you.
Then who was the NEW guy? Tell us.

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Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Post by PterCriss » Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:46 pm

EggFlip wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:58 pm
There were 10 thousand record stores in the states In 1988 all getting at least one copy on tape , cd and vinyl so already 30 thousand copies before one sale will have been shipped aprox
Those 30 thousand copies were not considered sales and could make it to the cut out bin thanks to Kiss' solo albums debacle.

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Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Post by nibbler1982 » Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:47 pm

PterCriss wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:43 pm
nibbler1982 wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:44 pm
PterCriss wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:31 pm
nibbler1982 wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:22 pm
PterCriss wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:19 pm
nibbler1982 wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:16 pm
TheSphinx wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:53 pm
PterCriss wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:09 pm
TheSphinx wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:14 am
Red_Walrus wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:55 am
I got a few questions.What would Animalize looked like if VV stayed. What songs off VV Invasion would have made it.I think it would have been huge. Pauls songs were great and he had the hit with "HOF" but if VV could have bolstered up Genes songs and also included some of his own it would have been killer. Anyone have a playlist of what could have been?

So what came next? An album that is basically demos. One that had sold so poorly, Chrysalis did a survey during the HITS tour trying to figure out why people weren't buying KISS albums. Yes, "Forever" as a $1.50 cassingle sold well but it didn't move albums.

Actually - every Kiss fan knows Crazy Nights followed Asylum not HITS like you so easy revised and inserted. We also know Vinnie lost his mind and went AWOL. So your timeline and comments should end when Vinnie went crazy.

Also you might want to include talking about Smashed Thrashes and Hits and how it sold 2 million pr 2.5 million and has Let's Put the X in Sex as a single. I don't think anyone has figured out how that album sold so much and it had nothing to do with Vinnie. By the time 1987 rolled around Vinnie was an after thought in Kiss. If anyone talked about anyone coming back it was always - when is Ace coming back, not Vinnie.
I have no idea what you are talking about. The only thing I edited in that post was Invasion was the fastest selling DEBUT album. I put in debut.


Look how bad Asylum did. You didn't see it ship platinum. They spent more money on videos trying to push that album. That one got 3 and it still didn't sell well. And because Asylum did so poorly it went to the "two year plan" on Crazy Nights. The one thing that did help KISS during the time was they began to play up the nostalgia again. The makeup times were back thanks to eXposed being released prior to CN coming out. Crazy Nights can't be looked upon as any success at all. The tour was hemorrhaging money they couldn't even afford to keep paying a keyboard player to stay on tour with them. And they had to pay Ted Nugent decent bucks to help fill some seats.

So what came next? An album that is basically demos. One that had sold so poorly, Chrysalis did a survey during the HITS tour trying to figure out why people weren't buying KISS albums. Yes, "Forever" as a $1.50 cassingle sold well but it didn't move albums.


Other people have quoted it and you can see its the same in their quotes of my post. So what are you lying about?

I've also mocked people for using Billboard's top charting #'s and length as if it proves anything when ST&H was their biggest seller but you wouldn't know that from its chart history. It's sales shouldn't have come as any big surprise. Kiss was pushing the makeup past (since Exposed). It was a new Greatest Hits cd. Cd's had been taking off. It was a great time for people to get a Greatest Hits collection of KISS with old and newer songs like I Love It Loud, Lick It Up.

How long did it take Ace to get a record deal? If Eddie Trunk hadn't given him one would he have ever gotten one?
Ace was relying on Vinnie just like KISS. I mean Ace was playing "Back On The Streets". Then Ace had to rely on a Paul Stanley song. Pretty pathetic of him to record "Hide Your Heart". Ace's most known single from his comeback "Into The Night". One more song Ace didn't write just like his hit NY Groove. Then one of his singles was "Do Ya". A hit songwriting machine he was.
YOOOOOOOOOOOOOO MY BROTHER SPHINXIE!!!!!!!!

Where the hell you been my man?!?!?!?

Brah...it’s soooo good to see your name pop up on the boards. I couldn’t believe my eyes. I sincerely and genuinely hope all is well with you and yours. It’s so good to have you back.

Our donnybrooks are what legends are made of. The nice thing is the threads never got locked. Don’t get me wrong...those were some dogfights and we did sling a little mud here and there but we always kept a level of civility to it. Good times. Good times.

There’s a new guy on here who shall remain nameless that does remind me of you. He’s got your tenacity for sure...but none of your intelligence and style. He always has me thinking about the good ol’ days.

I tip my hat to the return of a most worthy opponent.

(Now back to our regularly scheduled program)
I don't swing that way but glad my tenacity reminds you of your Broke Back Mountain days with Sphinxy. Lol.
Who was talking about you and what does Broke Back Mountain have to do with this conversation?
Nibbs comments to Sphinxy - Brah...it’s soooo good to see your name pop up on the boards. I couldn’t believe my eyes.

Nibbs commenting about me. "There’s a new guy on here who shall remain nameless that does remind me of you. He’s got your tenacity for sure."

Nibbs continued about me - "He always has me thinking about the good ol’ days."

I'm flattered that you're always thinking about me. I am the new guy and the only one that has gone back and forth as much as we have over tickets sold vs gross receipts.
Geez...I hate to bust your bubble but the comment wasn’t about you.
Then who was the NEW guy? Tell us.
What don’t you understand about “who shall remain nameless”?

User avatar
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Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Post by PterCriss » Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:58 pm

nibbler1982 wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:47 pm
PterCriss wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:43 pm
nibbler1982 wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:44 pm
PterCriss wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:31 pm
nibbler1982 wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:22 pm
PterCriss wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:19 pm
nibbler1982 wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:16 pm
TheSphinx wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:53 pm
PterCriss wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:09 pm
TheSphinx wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:14 am



So what came next? An album that is basically demos. One that had sold so poorly, Chrysalis did a survey during the HITS tour trying to figure out why people weren't buying KISS albums. Yes, "Forever" as a $1.50 cassingle sold well but it didn't move albums.

Actually - every Kiss fan knows Crazy Nights followed Asylum not HITS like you so easy revised and inserted. We also know Vinnie lost his mind and went AWOL. So your timeline and comments should end when Vinnie went crazy.

Also you might want to include talking about Smashed Thrashes and Hits and how it sold 2 million pr 2.5 million and has Let's Put the X in Sex as a single. I don't think anyone has figured out how that album sold so much and it had nothing to do with Vinnie. By the time 1987 rolled around Vinnie was an after thought in Kiss. If anyone talked about anyone coming back it was always - when is Ace coming back, not Vinnie.
I have no idea what you are talking about. The only thing I edited in that post was Invasion was the fastest selling DEBUT album. I put in debut.


Look how bad Asylum did. You didn't see it ship platinum. They spent more money on videos trying to push that album. That one got 3 and it still didn't sell well. And because Asylum did so poorly it went to the "two year plan" on Crazy Nights. The one thing that did help KISS during the time was they began to play up the nostalgia again. The makeup times were back thanks to eXposed being released prior to CN coming out. Crazy Nights can't be looked upon as any success at all. The tour was hemorrhaging money they couldn't even afford to keep paying a keyboard player to stay on tour with them. And they had to pay Ted Nugent decent bucks to help fill some seats.

So what came next? An album that is basically demos. One that had sold so poorly, Chrysalis did a survey during the HITS tour trying to figure out why people weren't buying KISS albums. Yes, "Forever" as a $1.50 cassingle sold well but it didn't move albums.


Other people have quoted it and you can see its the same in their quotes of my post. So what are you lying about?

I've also mocked people for using Billboard's top charting #'s and length as if it proves anything when ST&H was their biggest seller but you wouldn't know that from its chart history. It's sales shouldn't have come as any big surprise. Kiss was pushing the makeup past (since Exposed). It was a new Greatest Hits cd. Cd's had been taking off. It was a great time for people to get a Greatest Hits collection of KISS with old and newer songs like I Love It Loud, Lick It Up.

How long did it take Ace to get a record deal? If Eddie Trunk hadn't given him one would he have ever gotten one?
Ace was relying on Vinnie just like KISS. I mean Ace was playing "Back On The Streets". Then Ace had to rely on a Paul Stanley song. Pretty pathetic of him to record "Hide Your Heart". Ace's most known single from his comeback "Into The Night". One more song Ace didn't write just like his hit NY Groove. Then one of his singles was "Do Ya". A hit songwriting machine he was.
YOOOOOOOOOOOOOO MY BROTHER SPHINXIE!!!!!!!!

Where the hell you been my man?!?!?!?

Brah...it’s soooo good to see your name pop up on the boards. I couldn’t believe my eyes. I sincerely and genuinely hope all is well with you and yours. It’s so good to have you back.

Our donnybrooks are what legends are made of. The nice thing is the threads never got locked. Don’t get me wrong...those were some dogfights and we did sling a little mud here and there but we always kept a level of civility to it. Good times. Good times.

There’s a new guy on here who shall remain nameless that does remind me of you. He’s got your tenacity for sure...but none of your intelligence and style. He always has me thinking about the good ol’ days.

I tip my hat to the return of a most worthy opponent.

(Now back to our regularly scheduled program)
I don't swing that way but glad my tenacity reminds you of your Broke Back Mountain days with Sphinxy. Lol.
Who was talking about you and what does Broke Back Mountain have to do with this conversation?
Nibbs comments to Sphinxy - Brah...it’s soooo good to see your name pop up on the boards. I couldn’t believe my eyes.

Nibbs commenting about me. "There’s a new guy on here who shall remain nameless that does remind me of you. He’s got your tenacity for sure."

Nibbs continued about me - "He always has me thinking about the good ol’ days."

I'm flattered that you're always thinking about me. I am the new guy and the only one that has gone back and forth as much as we have over tickets sold vs gross receipts.
Geez...I hate to bust your bubble but the comment wasn’t about you.
Then who was the NEW guy? Tell us.
What don’t you understand about “who shall remain nameless”?
You made that rule so you can break it. Do you have a contract that states that you can't say who you're talking about?

I understand you were talking about me. You just didn't think I would call you out. Now you have a Oh, shit moment.

What's that line in an Elvis song...... Don't you know I'm caught in a trap, I can't walk out...

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Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Post by nibbler1982 » Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:53 pm

PterCriss wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:58 pm
nibbler1982 wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:47 pm
PterCriss wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:43 pm
nibbler1982 wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:44 pm
PterCriss wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:31 pm
nibbler1982 wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:22 pm
PterCriss wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:19 pm
nibbler1982 wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:16 pm
TheSphinx wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:53 pm
PterCriss wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:09 pm


Actually - every Kiss fan knows Crazy Nights followed Asylum not HITS like you so easy revised and inserted. We also know Vinnie lost his mind and went AWOL. So your timeline and comments should end when Vinnie went crazy.

Also you might want to include talking about Smashed Thrashes and Hits and how it sold 2 million pr 2.5 million and has Let's Put the X in Sex as a single. I don't think anyone has figured out how that album sold so much and it had nothing to do with Vinnie. By the time 1987 rolled around Vinnie was an after thought in Kiss. If anyone talked about anyone coming back it was always - when is Ace coming back, not Vinnie.
I have no idea what you are talking about. The only thing I edited in that post was Invasion was the fastest selling DEBUT album. I put in debut.


Look how bad Asylum did. You didn't see it ship platinum. They spent more money on videos trying to push that album. That one got 3 and it still didn't sell well. And because Asylum did so poorly it went to the "two year plan" on Crazy Nights. The one thing that did help KISS during the time was they began to play up the nostalgia again. The makeup times were back thanks to eXposed being released prior to CN coming out. Crazy Nights can't be looked upon as any success at all. The tour was hemorrhaging money they couldn't even afford to keep paying a keyboard player to stay on tour with them. And they had to pay Ted Nugent decent bucks to help fill some seats.

So what came next? An album that is basically demos. One that had sold so poorly, Chrysalis did a survey during the HITS tour trying to figure out why people weren't buying KISS albums. Yes, "Forever" as a $1.50 cassingle sold well but it didn't move albums.


Other people have quoted it and you can see its the same in their quotes of my post. So what are you lying about?

I've also mocked people for using Billboard's top charting #'s and length as if it proves anything when ST&H was their biggest seller but you wouldn't know that from its chart history. It's sales shouldn't have come as any big surprise. Kiss was pushing the makeup past (since Exposed). It was a new Greatest Hits cd. Cd's had been taking off. It was a great time for people to get a Greatest Hits collection of KISS with old and newer songs like I Love It Loud, Lick It Up.

How long did it take Ace to get a record deal? If Eddie Trunk hadn't given him one would he have ever gotten one?
Ace was relying on Vinnie just like KISS. I mean Ace was playing "Back On The Streets". Then Ace had to rely on a Paul Stanley song. Pretty pathetic of him to record "Hide Your Heart". Ace's most known single from his comeback "Into The Night". One more song Ace didn't write just like his hit NY Groove. Then one of his singles was "Do Ya". A hit songwriting machine he was.
YOOOOOOOOOOOOOO MY BROTHER SPHINXIE!!!!!!!!

Where the hell you been my man?!?!?!?

Brah...it’s soooo good to see your name pop up on the boards. I couldn’t believe my eyes. I sincerely and genuinely hope all is well with you and yours. It’s so good to have you back.

Our donnybrooks are what legends are made of. The nice thing is the threads never got locked. Don’t get me wrong...those were some dogfights and we did sling a little mud here and there but we always kept a level of civility to it. Good times. Good times.

There’s a new guy on here who shall remain nameless that does remind me of you. He’s got your tenacity for sure...but none of your intelligence and style. He always has me thinking about the good ol’ days.

I tip my hat to the return of a most worthy opponent.

(Now back to our regularly scheduled program)
I don't swing that way but glad my tenacity reminds you of your Broke Back Mountain days with Sphinxy. Lol.
Who was talking about you and what does Broke Back Mountain have to do with this conversation?
Nibbs comments to Sphinxy - Brah...it’s soooo good to see your name pop up on the boards. I couldn’t believe my eyes.

Nibbs commenting about me. "There’s a new guy on here who shall remain nameless that does remind me of you. He’s got your tenacity for sure."

Nibbs continued about me - "He always has me thinking about the good ol’ days."

I'm flattered that you're always thinking about me. I am the new guy and the only one that has gone back and forth as much as we have over tickets sold vs gross receipts.
Geez...I hate to bust your bubble but the comment wasn’t about you.
Then who was the NEW guy? Tell us.
What don’t you understand about “who shall remain nameless”?
You made that rule so you can break it. Do you have a contract that states that you can't say who you're talking about?

I understand you were talking about me. You just didn't think I would call you out. Now you have a Oh, shit moment.

What's that line in an Elvis song...... Don't you know I'm caught in a trap, I can't walk out...
Of course I can break it. Although I made it for a reason and I choose not to.

I was talking to an old friend and welcoming him back.

No more. No less.

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Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Post by PterCriss » Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:56 pm

nibbler1982 wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:53 pm
PterCriss wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:58 pm
nibbler1982 wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:47 pm
PterCriss wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:43 pm
nibbler1982 wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:44 pm
PterCriss wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:31 pm
nibbler1982 wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:22 pm
PterCriss wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:19 pm
nibbler1982 wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:16 pm
TheSphinx wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:53 pm


I have no idea what you are talking about. The only thing I edited in that post was Invasion was the fastest selling DEBUT album. I put in debut.


Look how bad Asylum did. You didn't see it ship platinum. They spent more money on videos trying to push that album. That one got 3 and it still didn't sell well. And because Asylum did so poorly it went to the "two year plan" on Crazy Nights. The one thing that did help KISS during the time was they began to play up the nostalgia again. The makeup times were back thanks to eXposed being released prior to CN coming out. Crazy Nights can't be looked upon as any success at all. The tour was hemorrhaging money they couldn't even afford to keep paying a keyboard player to stay on tour with them. And they had to pay Ted Nugent decent bucks to help fill some seats.

So what came next? An album that is basically demos. One that had sold so poorly, Chrysalis did a survey during the HITS tour trying to figure out why people weren't buying KISS albums. Yes, "Forever" as a $1.50 cassingle sold well but it didn't move albums.


Other people have quoted it and you can see its the same in their quotes of my post. So what are you lying about?

I've also mocked people for using Billboard's top charting #'s and length as if it proves anything when ST&H was their biggest seller but you wouldn't know that from its chart history. It's sales shouldn't have come as any big surprise. Kiss was pushing the makeup past (since Exposed). It was a new Greatest Hits cd. Cd's had been taking off. It was a great time for people to get a Greatest Hits collection of KISS with old and newer songs like I Love It Loud, Lick It Up.

How long did it take Ace to get a record deal? If Eddie Trunk hadn't given him one would he have ever gotten one?
Ace was relying on Vinnie just like KISS. I mean Ace was playing "Back On The Streets". Then Ace had to rely on a Paul Stanley song. Pretty pathetic of him to record "Hide Your Heart". Ace's most known single from his comeback "Into The Night". One more song Ace didn't write just like his hit NY Groove. Then one of his singles was "Do Ya". A hit songwriting machine he was.
YOOOOOOOOOOOOOO MY BROTHER SPHINXIE!!!!!!!!

Where the hell you been my man?!?!?!?

Brah...it’s soooo good to see your name pop up on the boards. I couldn’t believe my eyes. I sincerely and genuinely hope all is well with you and yours. It’s so good to have you back.

Our donnybrooks are what legends are made of. The nice thing is the threads never got locked. Don’t get me wrong...those were some dogfights and we did sling a little mud here and there but we always kept a level of civility to it. Good times. Good times.

There’s a new guy on here who shall remain nameless that does remind me of you. He’s got your tenacity for sure...but none of your intelligence and style. He always has me thinking about the good ol’ days.

I tip my hat to the return of a most worthy opponent.

(Now back to our regularly scheduled program)
I don't swing that way but glad my tenacity reminds you of your Broke Back Mountain days with Sphinxy. Lol.
Who was talking about you and what does Broke Back Mountain have to do with this conversation?
Nibbs comments to Sphinxy - Brah...it’s soooo good to see your name pop up on the boards. I couldn’t believe my eyes.

Nibbs commenting about me. "There’s a new guy on here who shall remain nameless that does remind me of you. He’s got your tenacity for sure."

Nibbs continued about me - "He always has me thinking about the good ol’ days."

I'm flattered that you're always thinking about me. I am the new guy and the only one that has gone back and forth as much as we have over tickets sold vs gross receipts.
Geez...I hate to bust your bubble but the comment wasn’t about you.
Then who was the NEW guy? Tell us.
What don’t you understand about “who shall remain nameless”?
You made that rule so you can break it. Do you have a contract that states that you can't say who you're talking about?

I understand you were talking about me. You just didn't think I would call you out. Now you have a Oh, shit moment.

What's that line in an Elvis song...... Don't you know I'm caught in a trap, I can't walk out...
Of course I can break it. Although I made it for a reason and I choose not to.

I was talking to an old friend and welcoming him back.

No more. No less.
You just proved my point that you were talking about me.

Yes you talked to Sphinx and mentioned me. Why is it so hard to admit?

What's that line in an Elvis song...... Don't you know I'm caught in a trap, I can't walk out...

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Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Post by PterCriss » Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:58 pm

Now let's get back on track....

Nibbs did you even make a comment about the Original Thread? You know the one about Vinnie and Animalize?

I for one think Vinnie with Gene and Paul would have rounded out Animalize to be a better album then what was delivered.

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Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Post by nibbler1982 » Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:05 pm

PterCriss wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:58 pm
Now let's get back on track....

Nibbs did you even make a comment about the Original Thread? You know the one about Vinnie and Animalize?

I for one think Vinnie with Gene and Paul would have rounded out Animalize to be a better album then what was delivered.
Yes, I think Vinnie was great in KISS and for KISS.

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Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Post by nibbler1982 » Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:07 pm

PterCriss wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:56 pm
nibbler1982 wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:53 pm
PterCriss wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:58 pm
nibbler1982 wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:47 pm
PterCriss wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:43 pm
nibbler1982 wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:44 pm
PterCriss wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:31 pm
nibbler1982 wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:22 pm
PterCriss wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:19 pm
nibbler1982 wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:16 pm


YOOOOOOOOOOOOOO MY BROTHER SPHINXIE!!!!!!!!

Where the hell you been my man?!?!?!?

Brah...it’s soooo good to see your name pop up on the boards. I couldn’t believe my eyes. I sincerely and genuinely hope all is well with you and yours. It’s so good to have you back.

Our donnybrooks are what legends are made of. The nice thing is the threads never got locked. Don’t get me wrong...those were some dogfights and we did sling a little mud here and there but we always kept a level of civility to it. Good times. Good times.

There’s a new guy on here who shall remain nameless that does remind me of you. He’s got your tenacity for sure...but none of your intelligence and style. He always has me thinking about the good ol’ days.

I tip my hat to the return of a most worthy opponent.

(Now back to our regularly scheduled program)
I don't swing that way but glad my tenacity reminds you of your Broke Back Mountain days with Sphinxy. Lol.
Who was talking about you and what does Broke Back Mountain have to do with this conversation?
Nibbs comments to Sphinxy - Brah...it’s soooo good to see your name pop up on the boards. I couldn’t believe my eyes.

Nibbs commenting about me. "There’s a new guy on here who shall remain nameless that does remind me of you. He’s got your tenacity for sure."

Nibbs continued about me - "He always has me thinking about the good ol’ days."

I'm flattered that you're always thinking about me. I am the new guy and the only one that has gone back and forth as much as we have over tickets sold vs gross receipts.
Geez...I hate to bust your bubble but the comment wasn’t about you.
Then who was the NEW guy? Tell us.
What don’t you understand about “who shall remain nameless”?
You made that rule so you can break it. Do you have a contract that states that you can't say who you're talking about?

I understand you were talking about me. You just didn't think I would call you out. Now you have a Oh, shit moment.

What's that line in an Elvis song...... Don't you know I'm caught in a trap, I can't walk out...
Of course I can break it. Although I made it for a reason and I choose not to.

I was talking to an old friend and welcoming him back.

No more. No less.
You just proved my point that you were talking about me.

Yes you talked to Sphinx and mentioned me. Why is it so hard to admit?

What's that line in an Elvis song...... Don't you know I'm caught in a trap, I can't walk out...
I proved nothing of the sort.

I said I wasn’t talking about you and you just refuse to accept it.

With that type of behavior you constantly end up with egg on your face.

To each their own.

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Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Post by EggFlip » Thu Aug 22, 2019 6:40 am

The guitar tech pulled the plug on them half way through their set on vv's request. Vv also stopped la guns selling t shirts . Tracii was interviewed about it in 1988.
Lofton23rdSt wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 5:56 pm
EggFlip wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:52 pm
Totally wrong. All systems go was a massive flop. It sold nothing like what you say.

Vinnie kicked La guns off their tour as la guns were selling three times the shorts vvi were . Ended in a big fight at Harpo's in Detroit that Traci went to press about .

They attacked Vinnie's guitar tech.

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Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Post by EggFlip » Thu Aug 22, 2019 6:44 am

No doubt anaimalze would have been better with Vinnie or at least the writing part. Less or no fillers for sure.

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Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Post by Thunderous_Lay » Thu Aug 22, 2019 6:58 am

EggFlip wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:52 pm
Totally wrong. All systems go was a massive flop. It sold nothing like what you say.
... that Chrysalis dropped Cusano and "gave" his contract to Slaughter and Strum, instead, is all the evidence one needs to establish both VVI records were flops through and through.

Everything else is just a figment of that guy's imagination.

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Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Post by TheSphinx » Thu Aug 22, 2019 8:36 am

redinthesky wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:24 pm
Doose wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 12:56 pm
Vinnie was successful in KISS because of Gene and Paul.
Vinnie was successful in the Invasion because of Dana and Mark.

Gene and Paul, and Mark and Dana, have gone on to greater success without Vinnie. And they continue to.
Even Blas Elias played with the Blue Man Group for 17 years, and is now playing with Trans-Siberian Orchestra.

Meanwhile, Vinnie is playing to 15 fans in a darkened rehearsal studio under a veil of paranoia and secrecy.

Who saved who?
Oh man, those are major zingaroos! And I couldn't agree more with all of them!

Vinnie didn't save jack squat. Kiss taking off the makeup saved them. Vinnie was along for the ride. "Animalize" had a great lead single in "Heaven's on Fire" and a great video for it, and it was a perfect "Kiss in 1984" album. Bye bye Vinnie, you were not needed. When he has no one's talents to leech off of, yup, he's playing a closet or a phone booth. I mean, not playing, "appearing" and serving cheap-ass salads.

Vinnie isn't even fit to tie Tommy Thayer's Ace boots.

The infamous Vinnie Saved KISS post shot down all your nonsense. Taking off the makeup didn't save them.

I also guess that's why "Lick It Up" is the 8th most played KISS song his Kisstory 1,495. What's HOF at? Only 857.

Of course "I Love It Loud" is #7 on the most played live KISS songs of all time. Who wrote that?


And while Animalize shipped platinum how well did Asylum do?

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Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Post by TheSphinx » Thu Aug 22, 2019 8:43 am

AllCanadianMan wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:05 pm

I know I checked out being a fan in the 80’s but why would Chrysalis have done a survey of why KISS albums weren’t selling? If I recall they never were on that label????
I had Chrysalis on the brain.

Even though I screwed up, you'd think everyone would know since its common knowledge about the survey Polygram did during the HITS tour. People were tired of all the ballads. They wanted a return to the hard rock KISS. They wanted more strong Gene songs.

And who did KISS have to bring back to get them that sound? hmmmm

And who wasn't cutting it on guitar ?

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Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Post by Lofton23rdSt » Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:59 am

EggFlip wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 6:40 am
The guitar tech pulled the plug on them half way through their set on vv's request. Vv also stopped la guns selling t shirts . Tracii was interviewed about it in 1988.
Lofton23rdSt wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 5:56 pm
EggFlip wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:52 pm
Totally wrong. All systems go was a massive flop. It sold nothing like what you say.

Vinnie kicked La guns off their tour as la guns were selling three times the shorts vvi were . Ended in a big fight at Harpo's in Detroit that Traci went to press about .

They attacked Vinnie's guitar tech.

Bill Temple said in the podcast interview that they thought it was a co-headlining tour and kept moving their drumset back.

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Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Post by TheSphinx » Thu Aug 22, 2019 10:16 am

redinthesky wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:24 pm
Vinnie isn't even fit to tie Tommy Thayer's Ace boots.

Remind me of all the hit songs and gold/ platinum albums Tommy is responsible for.

He doesn't have any.

Eric didn't have any (either one).

Bruce didn't have any (and don't try and claim Jungle from Carnival of Shelved like it was some radio hit). It wouldn't have gotten any airplay at all if KISS hadn't of had the #1 tour of the year before it came out.

Peter-Beth one song in top 20 kiss most played live

Ace - one song just ahead of I Love It Loud in most played live. Cold Gin has played 48 X's more than I love It Loud but it did come out 9 years earlier so...

Vinnie has 2 of the most played KISS songs live of all time in the top 8.

Next to Gene and Paul -Vinnie is da man

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Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Post by Heartofchrome » Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:21 am

PterCriss wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:09 pm
TheSphinx wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:14 am
Red_Walrus wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:55 am
I got a few questions.What would Animalize looked like if VV stayed. What songs off VV Invasion would have made it.I think it would have been huge. Pauls songs were great and he had the hit with "HOF" but if VV could have bolstered up Genes songs and also included some of his own it would have been killer. Anyone have a playlist of what could have been?

So what came next? An album that is basically demos. One that had sold so poorly, Chrysalis did a survey during the HITS tour trying to figure out why people weren't buying KISS albums. Yes, "Forever" as a $1.50 cassingle sold well but it didn't move albums.

Actually - every Kiss fan knows Crazy Nights followed Asylum not HITS like you so easy revised and inserted. We also know Vinnie lost his mind and went AWOL. So your timeline and comments should end when Vinnie went crazy.

Also you might want to include talking about Smashed Thrashes and Hits and how it sold 2 million pr 2.5 million and has Let's Put the X in Sex as a single. I don't think anyone has figured out how that album sold so much and it had nothing to do with Vinnie. By the time 1987 rolled around Vinnie was an after thought in Kiss. If anyone talked about anyone coming back it was always - when is Ace coming back, not Vinnie.
It sure had nothing to do with X In Sex or Rock Hard as both songs never charted (yeah i kmow X hit 97) either
Had nothing to do with Crazy Nights HITS Revenge or AIII
What sold that comp? KISS on MTV unplugged as it was the most recent comp at the time

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Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Post by Heartofchrome » Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:29 am

PterCriss wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:46 pm
EggFlip wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:58 pm
There were 10 thousand record stores in the states In 1988 all getting at least one copy on tape , cd and vinyl so already 30 thousand copies before one sale will have been shipped aprox
Those 30 thousand copies were not considered sales and could make it to the cut out bin thanks to Kiss' solo albums debacle.
RIAA did not change the shipping rule until later, inrecall up until the early 2000s they had it set up like you just had to ship a million to get a platinum award said nothing about sales.

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Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Post by Heartofchrome » Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:39 am

TheSphinx wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 10:16 am
redinthesky wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:24 pm
Vinnie isn't even fit to tie Tommy Thayer's Ace boots.

Remind me of all the hit songs and gold/ platinum albums Tommy is responsible for.

He doesn't have any.

Eric didn't have any (either one).

Bruce didn't have any (and don't try and claim Jungle from Carnival of Shelved like it was some radio hit). It wouldn't have gotten any airplay at all if KISS hadn't of had the #1 tour of the year before it came out.

Peter-Beth one song in top 20 kiss most played live

Ace - one song just ahead of I Love It Loud in most played live. Cold Gin has played 48 X's more than I love It Loud but it did come out 9 years earlier so...

Vinnie has 2 of the most played KISS songs live of all time in the top 8.

Next to Gene and Paul -Vinnie is da man
Well ok as both Eric and Bruce was in the band at the time of the albums in question

COTN (granted took til 94)
Lick It Up
Animalize
Asylum
Crazy Night
Smashs
Hot
Revenge

Seems like a good run of Plat and Gold albums

Youu can't give Vinnie cred for that then knock out the other band members as without Eric we would not have had that drum fill on COTN with out Bruce that solo on Tears never happened.

Back then Videos and airplay sold records if the video sucks chances of the song getting airplay was slim no airplay no sales.

Maybe just maybe had the vids for the Asylum era been better the album might have sold more.

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Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Post by LordThurisaz » Thu Aug 22, 2019 1:26 pm

TheSphinx wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 8:36 am
The infamous Vinnie Saved KISS post shot down all your nonsense. Taking off the makeup didn't save them.

I also guess that's why "Lick It Up" is the 8th most played KISS song his Kisstory 1,495. What's HOF at? Only 857.

Of course "I Love It Loud" is #7 on the most played live KISS songs of all time. Who wrote that?


And while Animalize shipped platinum how well did Asylum do?
Yeah, sure. Taking off the music didn't save them. Nah, it was all some crazy nut job who can't even work as a songwriter, which is supposedly his main strong suit. :lol:

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Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Post by kissthat » Thu Aug 22, 2019 2:24 pm

As usual , Sphinxie's fan fiction has VV with a bigger career than actual facts do.

Let's see, when they wanted to boost sales of Creatures AFTER Animalize went Platinum, did they add VV to the cover or did they remove they make up from the cover?





Back to the op, people keep making the assumption that there would have also been the Desmond Child songs if VV had signed his contract ?

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Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Post by LordThurisaz » Thu Aug 22, 2019 2:28 pm

kissthat wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 2:24 pm
As usual , Sphinxie's fan fiction has VV with a bigger career than actual facts do.

Let's see, when they wanted to boost sales of Creatures AFTER Animalize went Platinum, did they add VV to the cover or did they remove they make up from the cover?





Back to the op, people keep making the assumption that there would have also been the Desmond Child songs if VV had signed his contract ?
The Desmond Child songs would've still happened because, well golly gee, lookie there: He's had a bigger career as a songwriter than Vinnie. Compared to his peers, ie other songwriters of the 80s and other shred guitarists, Vinnie comes up more than a bit short. Hence why his albums barely sold.

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Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Post by kissthat » Thu Aug 22, 2019 2:31 pm

LordThurisaz wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 2:28 pm
kissthat wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 2:24 pm
As usual , Sphinxie's fan fiction has VV with a bigger career than actual facts do.

Let's see, when they wanted to boost sales of Creatures AFTER Animalize went Platinum, did they add VV to the cover or did they remove they make up from the cover?





Back to the op, people keep making the assumption that there would have also been the Desmond Child songs if VV had signed his contract ?
The Desmond Child songs would've still happened because, well golly gee, lookie there: He's had a bigger career as a songwriter than Vinnie. Compared to his peers, ie other songwriters of the 80s and other shred guitarists, Vinnie comes up more than a bit short. Hence why his albums barely sold.
I wasn't even questioning who was the biggest songwriter. Desmond bt a mile. Just wondering "when" Paul decided to write with him again,before or after VV getting gone.

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Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Post by Shandi Man » Thu Aug 22, 2019 3:47 pm

I'm not much of a Vinnie Vincent Invasion fan, I don't have those albums and don't have much interest in Vinnie outside of Kiss BUT I do like LIU alot which Vinnie was a big part of.

For me personally Animalize is by far the worst Kiss album ever released. Worse than PC ,SB and Monster. It would have greatly benefited from Vinnie's input IMO but whether that would have been enough to salvage it is another story.

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