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Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Posted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 12:59 pm
by LordThurisaz
TheSphinx wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 5:00 pm
Is it a coincidence they went with the Egyptian theme and had Slaughter open for them? Think about it.
Maybe they were trying to subliminally use Vinnie and the great success he had to help them.


It is funny that on many nights Slaughter was selling close to what KISS were in merch. Those former VVI guys sure put alot of butts in seats on that tour. That's for sure.
The only possible "conspiracy theory" here, Alex Jones, is that they might be mocking Vinnie for his financial and band issues with The Street Giveth...

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Posted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 2:01 pm
by EggFlip
No doubt a better album. Paul singing invasion would be interesting.
Roberts voice as good as it was was not radio friendly and I fell the vvi songs would have done better radio wise with kiss.

As for hits tour both winger and slaughter were getting mote MTV play than kiss but hide your heart and forever were doing well. The kind of people buying hide your heart and forever were not kiss fans in general they were flighty top 40 fans. I was shocked at how many people didn't know many of the old kiss tunes played live on that tour. I think it has similarities to dynasty other than the new audience was a bit older.

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Posted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 2:03 pm
by EggFlip
Coincidentally kip winger and I guess the keyboard player from winger were on tour with Vinnie and two slaughter members on Alice Cooper's constrictor tour so guessing they all knew each other pretty well.

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Posted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 2:05 pm
by Rip Rokken
EggFlip wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 2:03 pm
Coincidentally kip winger and I guess the keyboard player from winger were on tour with Vinnie and two slaughter members on Alice Cooper's constrictor tour so guessing they all knew each other pretty well.
KB player for Winger = Paul Taylor. Excellent, multitalented musician.

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2019 6:36 am
by Frehley's Vomit
TheSphinx wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 5:00 pm
Is it a coincidence they went with the Egyptian theme and had Slaughter open for them? Think about it.
Maybe they were trying to subliminally use Vinnie and the great success he had to help them.
:lol:

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 11:39 am
by TheSphinx
If only those songs Vinnie was working with had not turned out so well.... who knows what would have happened.

I still love Gene and Paul lying out of their butts and acting like Vinnie was fired after the end of the LICK IT UP tour.

Funny how Gene was calling Vinnie almost everyday while Vinnie was in the studio. Even Hirsch pointed that fact out. Gene is begging Vinnie to come back. And of course with Gene having movie projects etc on tap and no songs at all ready for the next album..... it was fitting.

It's funny how Gene never gets asked that in interviews etc.

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 11:42 am
by Doose
Vinnie Vincent put out HIS version of "Animalize" - it was the first VVI album. He had full control.

Was it a best-selling album?

I guess we can put an end to any notion that it would have been one of KISS' best selling albums too then.

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 11:49 am
by TheSphinx
Doose wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 11:42 am
I guess we can put an end to any notion that it would have been one of KISS' best selling albums too then.

Although Vinnie's solo album was the fastest selling debut in the history of Chrysalis Records (up to that point) and was around 500K in sales when ASG came out (which is impressive considering only 1 video.... because George Sewitt lied to the label).... that has nothing to do with how great it would have done as a KISS album.

The momentum was on KISS' side. That would have been the knockout punch they needed. Three strong, great albums in a row.

There was a reason GENE was calling Vinnie daily trying to get him to come back. Gene at least was smart enough to know how bad they needed Vinnie. Hell, it was Gene who was smart enough to get Vinnie back for Revenge after they had 4 mediocre albums in a row.

Only 1 song from Animalize was even played at least 1/2 of the tour dates on the Asylum tour. ONLY 1 SONG. That shows you how little they thought of "Animalize".

Animalize could have easily been a triple or quadruple platinum album with the songs & direction Vinnie would have brought with it.

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 11:51 am
by Doose
But the bottom line is: Vinnie never had a best-selling album (even when he put out the songs he wanted, and how he wanted), he's never had a hit song, and he's never made a living as a songwriter. I don't think he even owns his own publishing these days.

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 12:16 pm
by Tito
TheSphinx wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 11:49 am
There was a reason GENE was calling Vinnie daily trying to get him to come back.
Man, this shit's too funny. :lol: I bet all the magazines were talking about Gene calling Vinnie daily too.

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 12:18 pm
by TheSphinx
Tito wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 12:16 pm
TheSphinx wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 11:49 am
There was a reason GENE was calling Vinnie daily trying to get him to come back.
Man, this shit's too funny. :lol: I bet all the magazines were talking about Gene calling Vinnie daily too.
No, but Hirsch Gardner certainly confirmed it for all the unbelievers

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 12:45 pm
by LordThurisaz
Tito wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 12:16 pm
TheSphinx wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 11:49 am
There was a reason GENE was calling Vinnie daily trying to get him to come back.
Man, this shit's too funny. :lol: I bet all the magazines were talking about Gene calling Vinnie daily too.
Yup. "Vinnie, can you please come back? Our last album was full of filler... can we get more of that, please?" Give me a break. :lol:

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 7:00 am
by TheSphinx
LordThurisaz wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 12:45 pm
Tito wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 12:16 pm
TheSphinx wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 11:49 am
There was a reason GENE was calling Vinnie daily trying to get him to come back.
Man, this shit's too funny. :lol: I bet all the magazines were talking about Gene calling Vinnie daily too.
Yup. "Vinnie, can you please come back? Our last album was full of filler... can we get more of that, please?" Give me a break. :lol:

Filler? If they were allegedly filler then why were so many released as videos and played live?


You can bet if they had used Vinnie's songs for Animalize... KISS wouldn't have only been doing 1 SINGLE SONG from Animalize on the next tour. Only one stinking song off Animalize was played at least 45% of the Asylum tour dates. Animalize was FULL OF FILLER.

Asylum was even worse filler.

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 7:11 am
by gabbagabba
TheSphinx wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 11:49 am

Animalize could have easily been a triple or quadruple platinum album with the songs & direction Vinnie would have brought with it.
Yes, that's for sure.
I loved Vinnie's work with the Beatles "White Album" and don't foget Vinnie's songs on "Nevermind" by Nirvana.
It's a shame that Vinnie did so many great things for others (just think about Queen's "Bohemian Rapsody") and then NO solo career after 1989.

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 7:50 am
by acevog75
If the songs turned out like they did on VVI, no way.....If they went through the process that Vinnie’s ideas went through on Lick It Up, then it had the potential to be a good selling album. As it stands, it sold as well as a KISS album would sell in the 80’s regardless. I highly doubt they had any chance of doing Bon Jovi or Def Leppard numbers. Not with those songs or whatever would have become of the songs that Vinnie was planning on bringing to them for Animalize.

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:10 am
by J-Lefty
Animalize would have done better if it was produced by Michael J Jackson

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 9:32 am
by LordThurisaz
A band... playing new songs off an album... live? It's almost as if they are trying to push the album sales or something. Weird, that.

Doesn't prove they aren't filler.

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 9:45 am
by acevog75
J-Lefty wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:10 am
Animalize would have done better if it was produced by Michael J Jackson
Perhaps, but he would have to tell Gene to write new songs or work a little harder on the ones he brought. As far as production goes, I think the basic tracks and vocals are perfectly fine as far as sound and performance goes. I think the solos were a little strange sounding and not very memorable, but maybe that was a style choice on Paul’s part to keep up with the shredders. It sounds like a lot of the solos were doubled, but it’s almost as if one of the tracks was racing to keep up with the other track. Almost like the way Tony Iommi would double his solos, but they were never quite the same with each other. It worked for him because he wasn’t trying to crank out a million notes. Maybe as a producer MJJ would have taken a different approach to make them more tuneful? I think Bruce shredded on Asylum but it was tasteful and tuneful for the most part. But I think if MJJ was a producer in the way that Eddie Kramer was for KISS, which was more of an engineer and not a song arranger, than I believe it would’ve had no bearing on sales at all.

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 9:53 am
by TheSphinx
J-Lefty wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:10 am
Animalize would have done better if it was produced by Michael J Jackson
Maybe. But he did produce the album "Killers" and you could have easily called those 4 new tracks that were supposed to be used on COTN.. "FILLERS".

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:04 am
by acevog75
TheSphinx wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 9:53 am
J-Lefty wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:10 am
Animalize would have done better if it was produced by Michael J Jackson
Maybe. But he did produce the album "Killers" and you could have easily called those 4 new tracks that were supposed to be used on COTN.. "FILLERS".
Nowhere To Run is solid. I think the rest range from ok to some of the worst they’ve ever done up to that point. Down On Your Knees is just a terrible song. KISS at their most generic up to that point. That said, at least they were trying to get back on track, they had to start somewhere I guess. The fact that DOYK made it onto that compilation KISS40 shows how clueless the record company could be at times. Terrible choice

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:24 am
by Tito
I love "Partners In Crime", always have.

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:33 pm
by UltraCynic
I could not BELIEVE how average the songs on Killers were, which made the jump in quality on COTN even more noticeable.

The only thing of note on those 4 songs was Bob Kulick’s lead guitar work. Salute!

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:43 pm
by gabbagabba
I really love "I'm a Legend Tonight" and "Nowhere to Run", two great songs.
They certainly weren't fillers.

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 7:01 am
by ville77
I would be interested to know that what songs Gene and Paul had written for Animalize when Vinnie Vincent left the band (or got fired..).

Most of the Gene songs on Animalize were pretty much fillers, like "Lonely is the hunter". That song is basically a one riff song.
Were Gene and Paul "forced" to record those Gene songs because they cound't use the songs Vinnie wrote for Kiss?
Maybe they were running out of time and the record had to be ready??

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 7:20 am
by ObiWanFrehley
TheSphinx wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 5:41 pm
I was certainly joking about the HITS tour. It is a hilarious coincidence.

But it is true Slaughter was selling the merch I mentioned.
Slaughter was big with the chicks back then, I am sure that Slaughter helped bring in some people for the KISS shows. The single Forever is what made the HITS tour possible, I don't think KISS was even going to tour for that album initially, but scoring a hit made it possible. The Rise to It video generated some buzz too for obvious reasons. KISS playing the vintage stuff brought in a few more people who had grown weary of the absence of classic KISS songs from the previous tours.

The HITS shows I attended (2 shows) were some of the best KISS shows I have been to.

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 7:50 am
by TheSphinx
UltraCynic wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:33 pm
I could not BELIEVE how average the songs on Killers were, which made the jump in quality on COTN even more noticeable.

The only thing of note on those 4 songs was Bob Kulick’s lead guitar work. Salute!
Amen! It was NIGHT AND DAY DIFFERENCE.... that and the tone/feeling of the album. What was the ONE THING that was different between the recording of Killers tracks and COTN tracks? hmmmmm Let me see....

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 9:30 am
by Doose
I guess Animalize would have sold MILLIONS with Vinnie's compositions.

Just like the two VVI albums did?

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 9:50 am
by LordThurisaz
Doose wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 9:30 am
I guess Animalize would have sold MILLIONS with Vinnie's compositions.

Just like the two VVI albums did?
They were YUUUUGE...

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 7:38 am
by TheSphinx
Doose wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 9:30 am
I guess Animalize would have sold MILLIONS with Vinnie's compositions.
Yes, easily 3-4M. Kiss had the great momentum going for them. But the fact that Animalize didn't deliver much more than one song... meant that momentum fell big time.

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:12 am
by Anomaly
Jesus Christ. :lol:

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:38 am
by PterCriss
the King.

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Posted: Sat Sep 21, 2019 11:28 am
by TheSphinx
ville77 wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 7:01 am
I would be interested to know that what songs Gene and Paul had written for Animalize when Vinnie Vincent left the band (or got fired..).

Most of the Gene songs on Animalize were pretty much fillers, like "Lonely is the hunter". That song is basically a one riff song.
Were Gene and Paul "forced" to record those Gene songs because they cound't use the songs Vinnie wrote for Kiss?
Maybe they were running out of time and the record had to be ready??

Vinnie wasn't officially "gone" till around June 17th, 1984.

Did anyone ever ask Paul how they came up with the name Animalize? I do wonder how Kiss would have sounded singing "Animal".