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Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 4:29 pm
by PterCriss
Heartofchrome wrote: Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:29 am
PterCriss wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:46 pm
EggFlip wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:58 pm There were 10 thousand record stores in the states In 1988 all getting at least one copy on tape , cd and vinyl so already 30 thousand copies before one sale will have been shipped aprox
Those 30 thousand copies were not considered sales and could make it to the cut out bin thanks to Kiss' solo albums debacle.
RIAA did not change the shipping rule until later, inrecall up until the early 2000s they had it set up like you just had to ship a million to get a platinum award said nothing about sales.
I thought the shipping a million credit was taken away because of the solo albums? They shipped 4 million but no platinum awards.

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 4:31 pm
by PterCriss
Heartofchrome wrote: Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:21 am
PterCriss wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:09 pm
TheSphinx wrote: Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:14 am
Red_Walrus wrote: Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:55 amI got a few questions.What would Animalize looked like if VV stayed. What songs off VV Invasion would have made it.I think it would have been huge. Pauls songs were great and he had the hit with "HOF" but if VV could have bolstered up Genes songs and also included some of his own it would have been killer. Anyone have a playlist of what could have been?

So what came next? An album that is basically demos. One that had sold so poorly, Chrysalis did a survey during the HITS tour trying to figure out why people weren't buying KISS albums. Yes, "Forever" as a $1.50 cassingle sold well but it didn't move albums.

Actually - every Kiss fan knows Crazy Nights followed Asylum not HITS like you so easy revised and inserted. We also know Vinnie lost his mind and went AWOL. So your timeline and comments should end when Vinnie went crazy.

Also you might want to include talking about Smashed Thrashes and Hits and how it sold 2 million pr 2.5 million and has Let's Put the X in Sex as a single. I don't think anyone has figured out how that album sold so much and it had nothing to do with Vinnie. By the time 1987 rolled around Vinnie was an after thought in Kiss. If anyone talked about anyone coming back it was always - when is Ace coming back, not Vinnie.
It sure had nothing to do with X In Sex or Rock Hard as both songs never charted (yeah i kmow X hit 97) either
Had nothing to do with Crazy Nights HITS Revenge or AIII
What sold that comp? KISS on MTV unplugged as it was the most recent comp at the time
No Smashed Thrashes and Hits sold it's numbers before MTV Unplugged? Was that a guess by you?

You couldn't find Smashed Thrashes and Hits when MTV Unplugged came out and Smashed Thrashes and Hits wasn't the comp you would be looking for.

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 5:43 pm
by Heartofchrome
PterCriss wrote: Thu Aug 22, 2019 4:29 pm
Heartofchrome wrote: Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:29 am
PterCriss wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:46 pm
EggFlip wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:58 pm There were 10 thousand record stores in the states In 1988 all getting at least one copy on tape , cd and vinyl so already 30 thousand copies before one sale will have been shipped aprox
Those 30 thousand copies were not considered sales and could make it to the cut out bin thanks to Kiss' solo albums debacle.
RIAA did not change the shipping rule until later, inrecall up until the early 2000s they had it set up like you just had to ship a million to get a platinum award said nothing about sales.
I thought the shipping a million credit was taken away because of the solo albums? They shipped 4 million but no platinum awards.
I could be wrong but i swear up to early 2000s it was shipments

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 5:45 pm
by Heartofchrome
PterCriss wrote: Thu Aug 22, 2019 4:31 pm
Heartofchrome wrote: Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:21 am
PterCriss wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:09 pm
TheSphinx wrote: Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:14 am
Red_Walrus wrote: Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:55 amI got a few questions.What would Animalize looked like if VV stayed. What songs off VV Invasion would have made it.I think it would have been huge. Pauls songs were great and he had the hit with "HOF" but if VV could have bolstered up Genes songs and also included some of his own it would have been killer. Anyone have a playlist of what could have been?

So what came next? An album that is basically demos. One that had sold so poorly, Chrysalis did a survey during the HITS tour trying to figure out why people weren't buying KISS albums. Yes, "Forever" as a $1.50 cassingle sold well but it didn't move albums.

Actually - every Kiss fan knows Crazy Nights followed Asylum not HITS like you so easy revised and inserted. We also know Vinnie lost his mind and went AWOL. So your timeline and comments should end when Vinnie went crazy.

Also you might want to include talking about Smashed Thrashes and Hits and how it sold 2 million pr 2.5 million and has Let's Put the X in Sex as a single. I don't think anyone has figured out how that album sold so much and it had nothing to do with Vinnie. By the time 1987 rolled around Vinnie was an after thought in Kiss. If anyone talked about anyone coming back it was always - when is Ace coming back, not Vinnie.
It sure had nothing to do with X In Sex or Rock Hard as both songs never charted (yeah i kmow X hit 97) either
Had nothing to do with Crazy Nights HITS Revenge or AIII
What sold that comp? KISS on MTV unplugged as it was the most recent comp at the time
No Smashed Thrashes and Hits sold it's numbers before MTV Unplugged? Was that a guess by you?

You couldn't find Smashed Thrashes and Hits when MTV Unplugged came out and Smashed Thrashes and Hits wasn't the comp you would be looking for.

Nope not what i read

Its a horrid collection by any means

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 7:35 pm
by Rip Rokken
It would have been one of the greatest albums of all time.

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 8:46 pm
by justcoz
TheSphinx wrote: Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:35 am
kissthat wrote: Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:18 am Look who's back , nice to see you pop in Sphinxie.

Thanks. I'm going to pop back out now but I couldn't resist this one.

All Hail The Egyptian Warrior!
AWESOME CAMEO!!!!!!

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:20 pm
by Rip Rokken
PterCriss wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:56 pm
nibbler1982 wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:53 pm
PterCriss wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:58 pm
nibbler1982 wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:47 pm
PterCriss wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:43 pm
nibbler1982 wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:44 pm
PterCriss wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:31 pm
nibbler1982 wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:22 pm
PterCriss wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:19 pm
nibbler1982 wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:16 pm

YOOOOOOOOOOOOOO MY BROTHER SPHINXIE!!!!!!!!

Where the hell you been my man?!?!?!?

Brah...it’s soooo good to see your name pop up on the boards. I couldn’t believe my eyes. I sincerely and genuinely hope all is well with you and yours. It’s so good to have you back.

Our donnybrooks are what legends are made of. The nice thing is the threads never got locked. Don’t get me wrong...those were some dogfights and we did sling a little mud here and there but we always kept a level of civility to it. Good times. Good times.

There’s a new guy on here who shall remain nameless that does remind me of you. He’s got your tenacity for sure...but none of your intelligence and style. He always has me thinking about the good ol’ days.

I tip my hat to the return of a most worthy opponent.

(Now back to our regularly scheduled program)
I don't swing that way but glad my tenacity reminds you of your Broke Back Mountain days with Sphinxy. Lol.
Who was talking about you and what does Broke Back Mountain have to do with this conversation?
Nibbs comments to Sphinxy - Brah...it’s soooo good to see your name pop up on the boards. I couldn’t believe my eyes.

Nibbs commenting about me. "There’s a new guy on here who shall remain nameless that does remind me of you. He’s got your tenacity for sure."

Nibbs continued about me - "He always has me thinking about the good ol’ days."

I'm flattered that you're always thinking about me. I am the new guy and the only one that has gone back and forth as much as we have over tickets sold vs gross receipts.
Geez...I hate to bust your bubble but the comment wasn’t about you.
Then who was the NEW guy? Tell us.
What don’t you understand about “who shall remain nameless”?
You made that rule so you can break it. Do you have a contract that states that you can't say who you're talking about?

I understand you were talking about me. You just didn't think I would call you out. Now you have a Oh, shit moment.

What's that line in an Elvis song...... Don't you know I'm caught in a trap, I can't walk out...
Of course I can break it. Although I made it for a reason and I choose not to.

I was talking to an old friend and welcoming him back.

No more. No less.
You just proved my point that you were talking about me.

Yes you talked to Sphinx and mentioned me. Why is it so hard to admit?

What's that line in an Elvis song...... Don't you know I'm caught in a trap, I can't walk out...
He was probably talking about me. And good GOD was that a painful read on an iPhone. :lol:

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:39 pm
by 70skid
Rip Rokken wrote: Thu Aug 22, 2019 7:35 pm It would have been one of the greatest albums of all time.
:lol:
Ahhh....no.

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:39 pm
by PterCriss
Rip Rokken wrote: Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:20 pm
PterCriss wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:56 pm
nibbler1982 wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:53 pm
PterCriss wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:58 pm
nibbler1982 wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:47 pm
PterCriss wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:43 pm
nibbler1982 wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:44 pm
PterCriss wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:31 pm
nibbler1982 wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:22 pm
PterCriss wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:19 pm

I don't swing that way but glad my tenacity reminds you of your Broke Back Mountain days with Sphinxy. Lol.
Who was talking about you and what does Broke Back Mountain have to do with this conversation?
Nibbs comments to Sphinxy - Brah...it’s soooo good to see your name pop up on the boards. I couldn’t believe my eyes.

Nibbs commenting about me. "There’s a new guy on here who shall remain nameless that does remind me of you. He’s got your tenacity for sure."

Nibbs continued about me - "He always has me thinking about the good ol’ days."

I'm flattered that you're always thinking about me. I am the new guy and the only one that has gone back and forth as much as we have over tickets sold vs gross receipts.
Geez...I hate to bust your bubble but the comment wasn’t about you.
Then who was the NEW guy? Tell us.
What don’t you understand about “who shall remain nameless”?
You made that rule so you can break it. Do you have a contract that states that you can't say who you're talking about?

I understand you were talking about me. You just didn't think I would call you out. Now you have a Oh, shit moment.

What's that line in an Elvis song...... Don't you know I'm caught in a trap, I can't walk out...
Of course I can break it. Although I made it for a reason and I choose not to.

I was talking to an old friend and welcoming him back.

No more. No less.
You just proved my point that you were talking about me.

Yes you talked to Sphinx and mentioned me. Why is it so hard to admit?

What's that line in an Elvis song...... Don't you know I'm caught in a trap, I can't walk out...
He was probably talking about me. And good GOD was that a painful read on an iPhone. :lol:
Yeah because you post like Sphynx and have had word fights with Nibbs.

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:40 pm
by PterCriss
Heartofchrome wrote: Thu Aug 22, 2019 5:45 pm
PterCriss wrote: Thu Aug 22, 2019 4:31 pm
Heartofchrome wrote: Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:21 am
PterCriss wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:09 pm
TheSphinx wrote: Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:14 am
Red_Walrus wrote: Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:55 amI got a few questions.What would Animalize looked like if VV stayed. What songs off VV Invasion would have made it.I think it would have been huge. Pauls songs were great and he had the hit with "HOF" but if VV could have bolstered up Genes songs and also included some of his own it would have been killer. Anyone have a playlist of what could have been?

So what came next? An album that is basically demos. One that had sold so poorly, Chrysalis did a survey during the HITS tour trying to figure out why people weren't buying KISS albums. Yes, "Forever" as a $1.50 cassingle sold well but it didn't move albums.

Actually - every Kiss fan knows Crazy Nights followed Asylum not HITS like you so easy revised and inserted. We also know Vinnie lost his mind and went AWOL. So your timeline and comments should end when Vinnie went crazy.

Also you might want to include talking about Smashed Thrashes and Hits and how it sold 2 million pr 2.5 million and has Let's Put the X in Sex as a single. I don't think anyone has figured out how that album sold so much and it had nothing to do with Vinnie. By the time 1987 rolled around Vinnie was an after thought in Kiss. If anyone talked about anyone coming back it was always - when is Ace coming back, not Vinnie.
It sure had nothing to do with X In Sex or Rock Hard as both songs never charted (yeah i kmow X hit 97) either
Had nothing to do with Crazy Nights HITS Revenge or AIII
What sold that comp? KISS on MTV unplugged as it was the most recent comp at the time
No Smashed Thrashes and Hits sold it's numbers before MTV Unplugged? Was that a guess by you?

You couldn't find Smashed Thrashes and Hits when MTV Unplugged came out and Smashed Thrashes and Hits wasn't the comp you would be looking for.

Nope not what i read

Its a horrid collection by any means
Please post a link.

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 5:37 am
by TheSphinx
kissthat wrote: Thu Aug 22, 2019 2:31 pm
I wasn't even questioning who was the biggest songwriter. Desmond bt a mile. Just wondering "when" Paul decided to write with him again,before or after VV getting gone.

I doubt Desmond would have been called on to write for Animalize if Vinnie had stayed. And his contributions wouldn't have been missed.

Lets not act like Desmond Child was great for KISS. He has songwriting credits on more Kiss albums than Vinnie but weren't his contributions more important. NO

Vinnie brought far more to Kiss in the songwriting department than Desmond did.

Desmond had songs on lets Dynasty, Animalize, Asylum, Crazy Nights and Hits.

Vinnie- COTN, LIU & Revenge.

How many songs of Vinnie's appear on ALIVE III? 5

How many Desmond songs on Alive III? 2

Vinnie has two songs in the top 8 of Kiss songs played Live.

Desmond doesn't have any songs in the top 15 of most KISS songs played live.



Would Animalize have suffered without I've Had Enough, Heavens On Fire and Under The Gun? Not really.

What about his gems on Asylum? King Of The Mountain, Who Wants To Be Lonely, Loves A Deadly Weapon, Radar For Love, UH All Night.

Asylum is considered one of the WORST Kiss 80's albums. Only went gold. And its failure resulted in the "2 year plan". So on the album Desmond had the most credits you've got one of the biggest slammed KISS albums.


Crazy Nights: What would Kiss have done without a gem like Bang Bang You? Reason To Live was alright but it wasn't what KISS fans were wanting.


Hot In The Shade. We got Hide Your Heart and the concert staple ;) You Love Me To Hate You.
And we also got the "survey" that people were sick of these Paul wimpy songs and wanted more demon Gene songs.


So while Desmond was having huge success with Bon Jovi, Aerosmith and other bands it wasn't working out the same with KISS. And while I Was Made was a big hit, one could argue that it also helped put KISS in the ground.



But all we have to do is compare Lick It Up (album) with Vinnie VS Desmonds most contributions on a KISS album Asylum. Case closed. Winner Vincent by a mile.

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 5:49 am
by TheSphinx
Heartofchrome wrote: Thu Aug 22, 2019 5:43 pm
I could be wrong but i swear up to early 2000s it was shipments

It is still based on shipments.

Two huge failures happened in the 70's that made the RIAA change things.

The tremendous failure of Sgt Peppers soundtrack - which resulted in returns of 3 or 4M and the failure of the KISS solo albums.

In the early 80's they made a change and put in the 90 day rule.

Around 1988 or so it was changed to "60 days".

Later it was changed to "30 days".


What's funny is how Garth Brooks did just what KISS did with the solo albums. When Garth did that stupid alter ego Chris Gaines nonsense, Capitol shipped 3M copies of it. It sold horribly. Capitol was doing everything they could...offering incentives etc....so retailers wouldn't return the albums until after the they got past the "return window" for certification. It did work some. Garth got his certification for Gold, Platinum & Double Platinum all on the same day. Enough got returned even with all the incentives etc Capitol was offering, it didn't get Triple Platinum, but they did get to save some face. If they hadn't of done it it probably would have been Shipped Triple Platinum, certified Gold.


Also people keep acting like when an album reaches some sales milestone its automatically certified. Doesn't happen that way.

And how many threads about Kiss albums and them being at wrong sales levels?

Does anyone really think KISS biggest selling album - Destroyer sold the same number of copies as "Stick It To Ya"?


Lick It Up was said to be at 1M copies in the states before Animalize came out. But how long till it got "certified"?
And Animalize Shipped Platinum. 90 Day Rule was in place so it didn't get certified for 90 days after release. But why does anyone think the record company was shipping so many copies? Because KISS was back.

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 6:08 am
by Heartofchrome
PterCriss wrote: Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:40 pm
Heartofchrome wrote: Thu Aug 22, 2019 5:45 pm
PterCriss wrote: Thu Aug 22, 2019 4:31 pm
Heartofchrome wrote: Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:21 am
PterCriss wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:09 pm
TheSphinx wrote: Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:14 am
Red_Walrus wrote: Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:55 amI got a few questions.What would Animalize looked like if VV stayed. What songs off VV Invasion would have made it.I think it would have been huge. Pauls songs were great and he had the hit with "HOF" but if VV could have bolstered up Genes songs and also included some of his own it would have been killer. Anyone have a playlist of what could have been?

So what came next? An album that is basically demos. One that had sold so poorly, Chrysalis did a survey during the HITS tour trying to figure out why people weren't buying KISS albums. Yes, "Forever" as a $1.50 cassingle sold well but it didn't move albums.

Actually - every Kiss fan knows Crazy Nights followed Asylum not HITS like you so easy revised and inserted. We also know Vinnie lost his mind and went AWOL. So your timeline and comments should end when Vinnie went crazy.

Also you might want to include talking about Smashed Thrashes and Hits and how it sold 2 million pr 2.5 million and has Let's Put the X in Sex as a single. I don't think anyone has figured out how that album sold so much and it had nothing to do with Vinnie. By the time 1987 rolled around Vinnie was an after thought in Kiss. If anyone talked about anyone coming back it was always - when is Ace coming back, not Vinnie.
It sure had nothing to do with X In Sex or Rock Hard as both songs never charted (yeah i kmow X hit 97) either
Had nothing to do with Crazy Nights HITS Revenge or AIII
What sold that comp? KISS on MTV unplugged as it was the most recent comp at the time
No Smashed Thrashes and Hits sold it's numbers before MTV Unplugged? Was that a guess by you?

You couldn't find Smashed Thrashes and Hits when MTV Unplugged came out and Smashed Thrashes and Hits wasn't the comp you would be looking for.

Nope not what i read

Its a horrid collection by any means
Please post a link.
Dude was so long ago on thos board.actually

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 6:52 am
by TheSphinx
kissthat wrote: Thu Aug 22, 2019 2:24 pm As usual , Sphinxie's fan fiction has VV with a bigger career than actual facts do.

Let's see, when they wanted to boost sales of Creatures AFTER Animalize went Platinum, did they add VV to the cover or did they remove they make up from the cover?

That's funny. Do you really think Paul's ego would have allowed that to happen? Paul got tired of hearing "Lick It Up" is the best KISS album ever. Vinnie saved KISS etc. There's no way Paul's ego could have taken that.

Heck, just go back to them not wanting Vinnie to have his own VV Jackson guitar.

But lets take what you said there.... why do you think the HITS ALBUM/ TOUR had the EGYPTIAN THEME? And why do you think they had already contacted Mark/Dana to be their opening act before "Stick It To Ya" was even released. hmmmmm Coincidence?? :lol:

Also, wasn't 1985 or so when the re-release came out about the same time as Vinnie started having to say "The white faced band" etc. :P

Poor Paul and his ego.

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 8:06 am
by Tito
TheSphinx wrote: Fri Aug 23, 2019 6:52 am why do you think the HITS ALBUM/ TOUR had the EGYPTIAN THEME?
:lol: What point are you possibly trying to make with that? You do know Paul Stanley came up with the "Egyptian Wizard" character, right?

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 8:09 am
by LordThurisaz
Tito wrote: Fri Aug 23, 2019 8:06 am
TheSphinx wrote: Fri Aug 23, 2019 6:52 am why do you think the HITS ALBUM/ TOUR had the EGYPTIAN THEME?
:lol: What point are you possibly trying to make with that? You do know Paul Stanley came up with the "Egyptian Wizard" character, right?
Its all a vast satanic illuminati conspiracy, man.

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 5:00 pm
by TheSphinx
Tito wrote: Fri Aug 23, 2019 8:06 am
TheSphinx wrote: Fri Aug 23, 2019 6:52 am why do you think the HITS ALBUM/ TOUR had the EGYPTIAN THEME?
:lol: What point are you possibly trying to make with that? You do know Paul Stanley came up with the "Egyptian Wizard" character, right?

Is it a coincidence they went with the Egyptian theme and had Slaughter open for them? Think about it.
Maybe they were trying to subliminally use Vinnie and the great success he had to help them.


It is funny that on many nights Slaughter was selling close to what KISS were in merch. Those former VVI guys sure put alot of butts in seats on that tour. That's for sure.

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 5:38 pm
by douglasroads
You’ve crossed the line with your last few posts Sphinx. You are now revealed to be either:
completely off your head, a delusional fanboy with a three roll tin foil hat

or

VV himself. No one else could be that far gone to build this complex level of multi layered lunacy

or

a parody account that has over reached itself

Which is rather a shame as there seemed to be some warmth here for you when you re emerged. Something is very definitely odd / unhealthy in VV world right now.

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 5:41 pm
by TheSphinx
I was certainly joking about the HITS tour. It is a hilarious coincidence.

But it is true Slaughter was selling the merch I mentioned.

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 6:03 pm
by PterCriss
TheSphinx wrote: Fri Aug 23, 2019 5:41 pm I was certainly joking about the HITS tour. It is a hilarious coincidence.

But it is true Slaughter was selling the merch I mentioned.
Haha. You look like Michael Jackson walking that one back. You actually weren't joking you just know everyone would call you out. Kiss had moved and sailed past Crazy Vinnie with the HITS tour. So much so they felt sorry for Vinnie and used him on the Revenge sessions.

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 6:22 pm
by Rip Rokken
TheSphinx wrote: Fri Aug 23, 2019 5:41 pm I was certainly joking about the HITS tour. It is a hilarious coincidence.

But it is true Slaughter was selling the merch I mentioned.
They love playing “Pin The Tail on VINNIE VINCENT” around here. It’s another symptom of VVDS. Have you heard of it? :lol:

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 6:52 pm
by AllCanadianMan
Rip Rokken wrote: Fri Aug 23, 2019 6:22 pm
TheSphinx wrote: Fri Aug 23, 2019 5:41 pm I was certainly joking about the HITS tour. It is a hilarious coincidence.

But it is true Slaughter was selling the merch I mentioned.
They love playing “Pin The Tail on VINNIE VINCENT” around here. It’s another symptom of VVDS. Have you heard of it? :lol:
Vinnie Vincent Dip Shit????

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 10:44 pm
by Tito
TheSphinx wrote: Fri Aug 23, 2019 5:00 pm
Tito wrote: Fri Aug 23, 2019 8:06 am
TheSphinx wrote: Fri Aug 23, 2019 6:52 am why do you think the HITS ALBUM/ TOUR had the EGYPTIAN THEME?
:lol: What point are you possibly trying to make with that? You do know Paul Stanley came up with the "Egyptian Wizard" character, right?

Is it a coincidence they went with the Egyptian theme and had Slaughter open for them? Think about it.
Maybe they were trying to subliminally use Vinnie and the great success he had to help them.
:drunken: Suuure. Take it easy, now.
TheSphinx wrote: Fri Aug 23, 2019 5:00 pm It is funny that on many nights Slaughter was selling close to what KISS were in merch. Those former VVI guys sure put alot of butts in seats on that tour. That's for sure.
Nothing weird about that. People liked the band. It's been shown many times KISS used to have a knack for picking good opening bands. Surely you're not trying to somehow credit VV for this "coincidence" too? Wait, of course you are. :roll:

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 11:09 pm
by sneed78
Rip Rokken wrote: Fri Aug 23, 2019 6:22 pm
TheSphinx wrote: Fri Aug 23, 2019 5:41 pm I was certainly joking about the HITS tour. It is a hilarious coincidence.

But it is true Slaughter was selling the merch I mentioned.
They love playing “Pin The Tail on VINNIE VINCENT” around here. It’s another symptom of VVDS. Have you heard of it? :lol:

Cmon Rip, I’m a fan of Vinnie and what he did with Kiss and his solo stuff just as much as the next guy, but you don’t constantly have to comment on every post hoping you won’t lose your good standing with VV himself... these aren’t threads discussing the merits of what Rip Rokken has or hasn’t done after all.

No offense, but I’m fairly sure V still likes you man...

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 3:26 am
by Rip Rokken
sneed78 wrote: Fri Aug 23, 2019 11:09 pm
Rip Rokken wrote: Fri Aug 23, 2019 6:22 pm
TheSphinx wrote: Fri Aug 23, 2019 5:41 pm I was certainly joking about the HITS tour. It is a hilarious coincidence.

But it is true Slaughter was selling the merch I mentioned.
They love playing “Pin The Tail on VINNIE VINCENT” around here. It’s another symptom of VVDS. Have you heard of it? :lol:

Cmon Rip, I’m a fan of Vinnie and what he did with Kiss and his solo stuff just as much as the next guy, but you don’t constantly have to comment on every post hoping you won’t lose your good standing with VV himself... these aren’t threads discussing the merits of what Rip Rokken has or hasn’t done after all.

No offense, but I’m fairly sure V still likes you man...
Lol... not trying to impress anyone. People keep dropping my name in these threads. I keep joining in. It’s the circle of thread life. :lol:

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 3:57 am
by redinthesky
sneed78 wrote: Fri Aug 23, 2019 11:09 pm
Rip Rokken wrote: Fri Aug 23, 2019 6:22 pm
TheSphinx wrote: Fri Aug 23, 2019 5:41 pm I was certainly joking about the HITS tour. It is a hilarious coincidence.

But it is true Slaughter was selling the merch I mentioned.
They love playing “Pin The Tail on VINNIE VINCENT” around here. It’s another symptom of VVDS. Have you heard of it? :lol:

Cmon Rip, I’m a fan of Vinnie and what he did with Kiss and his solo stuff just as much as the next guy, but you don’t constantly have to comment on every post hoping you won’t lose your good standing with VV himself... these aren’t threads discussing the merits of what Rip Rokken has or hasn’t done after all.

No offense, but I’m fairly sure V still likes you man...
Vinnie likes anyone who kisses his talentless ass, like Shit Rotten has been doing here non-stop to great hilarity.

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 5:54 am
by redfield
redinthesky wrote: Sat Aug 24, 2019 3:57 am
sneed78 wrote: Fri Aug 23, 2019 11:09 pm
Rip Rokken wrote: Fri Aug 23, 2019 6:22 pm
TheSphinx wrote: Fri Aug 23, 2019 5:41 pm I was certainly joking about the HITS tour. It is a hilarious coincidence.

But it is true Slaughter was selling the merch I mentioned.
They love playing “Pin The Tail on VINNIE VINCENT” around here. It’s another symptom of VVDS. Have you heard of it? :lol:

Cmon Rip, I’m a fan of Vinnie and what he did with Kiss and his solo stuff just as much as the next guy, but you don’t constantly have to comment on every post hoping you won’t lose your good standing with VV himself... these aren’t threads discussing the merits of what Rip Rokken has or hasn’t done after all.

No offense, but I’m fairly sure V still likes you man...
Vinnie likes anyone who kisses his talentless ass, like Shit Rotten has been doing here non-stop to great hilarity.
Red, Youre free to sling all kinds of insults towards Vinnie if it makes you feel better but keep in mind, once you go overboard with edgy remarks ala 'talentless' , your entire point will be devaluated as some hyperbolic rant by most sane ppl around here :!: :wink:

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 5:58 am
by douglasroads
When someone has completely and utterly squandered the undoubted talents they once had then it might be fair to say that they are, presently, talentless?

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:01 am
by Rip Rokken
redfield wrote: Sat Aug 24, 2019 5:54 am
redinthesky wrote: Sat Aug 24, 2019 3:57 am Vinnie likes anyone who kisses his talentless ass, like Shit Rotten has been doing here non-stop to great hilarity.
Red, Youre free to sling all kinds of insults towards Vinnie if it makes you feel better but keep in mind, once you go overboard with edgy remarks ala 'talentless' , your entire point will be devaluated as some hyperbolic rant by most sane ppl around here :!: :wink:
AGREED. Well stated. :)

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:09 am
by Rip Rokken
douglasroads wrote: Sat Aug 24, 2019 5:58 am When someone has completely and utterly squandered the undoubted talents they once had then it might be fair to say that they are, presently, talentless?
Absolutely NOT. First, you present a false dichotomy by leaving out other viable conclusions. Second, your conclusion is based on your personal inferrence that his talent has been “wasted”, which isn’t authoritative by any means.

“Yeah, well... That’s just, like, your opinion, man.”

Just because Vinnie has chosen differently that you prescribe for him, doesn’t mean he’s wasted anything. And having witnessed his abilities recently, I can safely draw the personal conclusion that he is BEYOND talented.

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:59 am
by douglasroads
If he’s not sharing it with anyone outside of a handful of nut jobs in a narrow dark rehearsal room then I’m saying, empirically, that he’s squandered what he had. The glee you evidently derive from witnising an elderly man literally playing with himself is puzzling to most people here.

Vincent is a fascinating case and I do have all of his recordings with both Kiss and the invasion. He’s great on them. Mad, but great. Fascinating because here we have a session musician with the demeanour of a startled muskrat. He somehow lucks into a rock band with an obsessive fan base. It all goes to his head and, very quickly, he blows it. Now? He’s the odd, bit part Star Trek actor that can still, just, do the convention rounds. He’s not Gene Roddenberry, he’s not Kirk. And if you’re a fanboy that convinces them self otherwise, If your access to and personal affinity with the guy drives you to rationalise a whole heap of none sense to claim that he is...

Then you’re just a bit of a silly sod really.

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:05 am
by redinthesky
redfield wrote: Sat Aug 24, 2019 5:54 am
redinthesky wrote: Sat Aug 24, 2019 3:57 am
sneed78 wrote: Fri Aug 23, 2019 11:09 pm
Rip Rokken wrote: Fri Aug 23, 2019 6:22 pm
TheSphinx wrote: Fri Aug 23, 2019 5:41 pm I was certainly joking about the HITS tour. It is a hilarious coincidence.

But it is true Slaughter was selling the merch I mentioned.
They love playing “Pin The Tail on VINNIE VINCENT” around here. It’s another symptom of VVDS. Have you heard of it? :lol:

Cmon Rip, I’m a fan of Vinnie and what he did with Kiss and his solo stuff just as much as the next guy, but you don’t constantly have to comment on every post hoping you won’t lose your good standing with VV himself... these aren’t threads discussing the merits of what Rip Rokken has or hasn’t done after all.

No offense, but I’m fairly sure V still likes you man...
Vinnie likes anyone who kisses his talentless ass, like Shit Rotten has been doing here non-stop to great hilarity.
Red, Youre free to sling all kinds of insults towards Vinnie if it makes you feel better but keep in mind, once you go overboard with edgy remarks ala 'talentless' , your entire point will be devaluated as some hyperbolic rant by most sane ppl around here :!: :wink:
You have a point - I should have made clear that I think he's talentless today. There was once a time when Vinnie was indeed a great talent, but unfortunately he flushed it all away. Thanks for the heads-up.

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:06 am
by Rip Rokken
You sound bitter that you aren’t able to hear it for yourself. Vinnie doesn’t owe you a performance. But you’re welcome to fly over and see one if you’re interested.

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:19 am
by douglasroads
Sad.

Boring as an unaccompanied scribble through a borrowed Behringer. But mostly, sad.

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:31 am
by Curveboy
Vinnie's Animalize would have been brilliant.

SIDE ONE
1. I’ve Had Enough (Into The Fire)
2. Back On The Streets (Vinnie vocals)
3. Heaven’s On Fire
4. Lonely Is The Hunter
5. Betrayed (Eric vocals)

SIDE TWO
1. Under The Gun
2. Thrills In The Night
3. While The City Sleeps
4. Animal (Paul vocals)
5. Twisted (Gene vocals)

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:35 am
by Frehley's Vomit
Rip Rokken wrote: Thu Aug 22, 2019 7:35 pm It would have been one of the greatest albums of all time.
:lol:

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:37 am
by Frehley's Vomit
TheSphinx wrote: Fri Aug 23, 2019 5:00 pm
Tito wrote: Fri Aug 23, 2019 8:06 am
TheSphinx wrote: Fri Aug 23, 2019 6:52 am why do you think the HITS ALBUM/ TOUR had the EGYPTIAN THEME?
:lol: What point are you possibly trying to make with that? You do know Paul Stanley came up with the "Egyptian Wizard" character, right?

Is it a coincidence they went with the Egyptian theme and had Slaughter open for them? Think about it.
Maybe they were trying to subliminally use Vinnie and the great success he had to help them.


It is funny that on many nights Slaughter was selling close to what KISS were in merch. Those former VVI guys sure put alot of butts in seats on that tour. That's for sure.
FFS. :lol:

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:03 am
by Rip Rokken
Frehley's Vomit wrote: Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:37 am FFS. :lol:
I agree... F’n FULL SHREDD, baby! :D

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 3:47 pm
by schultzcore
I've been wanting to make this exact post for some time now, just haven't got to it.

Yes! Animalize with Vinnie would have been killer and really made for a great heavy AF trilogy of KISS records, following COTN and Lick it Up. They needed his aggression/ attack which was severely lacking with MSJ's playing. In fact, although I feel like they should have found a way to keep VV in tow, I would have been OK with his departure if we only would have been gifted the high octane version of Animalize that never came to be. Two full lengths (LIU + Animalize) + his COTU contributions would feel more complete to me.

They probably wouldn't have needed Child with VV still in the fold, but for the sake of this thread:

1.) Animal
2.) Heavens on Fire
3.) Burn Bitch Burn
4.) Twisted
5.) Back on the Streets

6.) Shoot U Full of Love
7.) While the City Sleeps
8.) Thrills in the Night
9.) I've Had Enough (Into the Fire)
10.) Boyz Are Gonna Rock

Didn't Vinnie come up with the album title (or a version of it)? I vaguely remember reading that once.

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:20 pm
by Red_Walrus
schultzcore wrote: Sat Aug 24, 2019 3:47 pm 1.) Animal
2.) Heavens on Fire
3.) Burn Bitch Burn
4.) Twisted
5.) Back on the Streets

6.) Shoot U Full of Love
7.) While the City Sleeps
8.) Thrills in the Night
9.) I've Had Enough (Into the Fire)
10.) Boyz Are Gonna Rock

Didn't Vinnie come up with the album title (or a version of it)? I vaguely remember reading that once.
curveboy


SIDE ONE
1. I’ve Had Enough (Into The Fire)
2. Back On The Streets (Vinnie vocals)
3. Heaven’s On Fire
4. Lonely Is The Hunter
5. Betrayed (Eric vocals)

SIDE TWO
1. Under The Gun
2. Thrills In The Night
3. While The City Sleeps
4. Animal (Paul vocals)
5. Twisted (Gene vocals)

Thx for the feedback, Betrayed with Eric singing is interesting.

Here's mine:

1.) Animal (Gene)
2.) Heaven's On Fire (Paul)
3.) Boyz Are Gonna Rock (Paul)
4.) Back On The Streets (Vinnie)
5.) Burn Bitch Burn (Gene)

6.) I’ve Had Enough (Into the Fire) (Paul)
7.) I Wanna Be Your Victim (Paul)
8.) Thrills in the Night (Paul)
9.) Baby-O (Eric)
10.) Twisted (Gene)

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Posted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 12:59 pm
by LordThurisaz
TheSphinx wrote: Fri Aug 23, 2019 5:00 pm Is it a coincidence they went with the Egyptian theme and had Slaughter open for them? Think about it.
Maybe they were trying to subliminally use Vinnie and the great success he had to help them.


It is funny that on many nights Slaughter was selling close to what KISS were in merch. Those former VVI guys sure put alot of butts in seats on that tour. That's for sure.
The only possible "conspiracy theory" here, Alex Jones, is that they might be mocking Vinnie for his financial and band issues with The Street Giveth...

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Posted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 2:01 pm
by EggFlip
No doubt a better album. Paul singing invasion would be interesting.
Roberts voice as good as it was was not radio friendly and I fell the vvi songs would have done better radio wise with kiss.

As for hits tour both winger and slaughter were getting mote MTV play than kiss but hide your heart and forever were doing well. The kind of people buying hide your heart and forever were not kiss fans in general they were flighty top 40 fans. I was shocked at how many people didn't know many of the old kiss tunes played live on that tour. I think it has similarities to dynasty other than the new audience was a bit older.

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Posted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 2:03 pm
by EggFlip
Coincidentally kip winger and I guess the keyboard player from winger were on tour with Vinnie and two slaughter members on Alice Cooper's constrictor tour so guessing they all knew each other pretty well.

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Posted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 2:05 pm
by Rip Rokken
EggFlip wrote: Mon Sep 02, 2019 2:03 pm Coincidentally kip winger and I guess the keyboard player from winger were on tour with Vinnie and two slaughter members on Alice Cooper's constrictor tour so guessing they all knew each other pretty well.
KB player for Winger = Paul Taylor. Excellent, multitalented musician.

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2019 6:36 am
by Frehley's Vomit
TheSphinx wrote: Fri Aug 23, 2019 5:00 pmIs it a coincidence they went with the Egyptian theme and had Slaughter open for them? Think about it.
Maybe they were trying to subliminally use Vinnie and the great success he had to help them.
:lol:

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 11:39 am
by TheSphinx
If only those songs Vinnie was working with had not turned out so well.... who knows what would have happened.

I still love Gene and Paul lying out of their butts and acting like Vinnie was fired after the end of the LICK IT UP tour.

Funny how Gene was calling Vinnie almost everyday while Vinnie was in the studio. Even Hirsch pointed that fact out. Gene is begging Vinnie to come back. And of course with Gene having movie projects etc on tap and no songs at all ready for the next album..... it was fitting.

It's funny how Gene never gets asked that in interviews etc.

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 11:42 am
by Doose
Vinnie Vincent put out HIS version of "Animalize" - it was the first VVI album. He had full control.

Was it a best-selling album?

I guess we can put an end to any notion that it would have been one of KISS' best selling albums too then.

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 11:49 am
by TheSphinx
Doose wrote: Sat Sep 14, 2019 11:42 am I guess we can put an end to any notion that it would have been one of KISS' best selling albums too then.

Although Vinnie's solo album was the fastest selling debut in the history of Chrysalis Records (up to that point) and was around 500K in sales when ASG came out (which is impressive considering only 1 video.... because George Sewitt lied to the label).... that has nothing to do with how great it would have done as a KISS album.

The momentum was on KISS' side. That would have been the knockout punch they needed. Three strong, great albums in a row.

There was a reason GENE was calling Vinnie daily trying to get him to come back. Gene at least was smart enough to know how bad they needed Vinnie. Hell, it was Gene who was smart enough to get Vinnie back for Revenge after they had 4 mediocre albums in a row.

Only 1 song from Animalize was even played at least 1/2 of the tour dates on the Asylum tour. ONLY 1 SONG. That shows you how little they thought of "Animalize".

Animalize could have easily been a triple or quadruple platinum album with the songs & direction Vinnie would have brought with it.

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 11:51 am
by Doose
But the bottom line is: Vinnie never had a best-selling album (even when he put out the songs he wanted, and how he wanted), he's never had a hit song, and he's never made a living as a songwriter. I don't think he even owns his own publishing these days.

Re: Would VVs' Animalize have been one of KISS' best selling albums?

Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 12:16 pm
by Tito
TheSphinx wrote: Sat Sep 14, 2019 11:49 am There was a reason GENE was calling Vinnie daily trying to get him to come back.
Man, this shit's too funny. :lol: I bet all the magazines were talking about Gene calling Vinnie daily too.