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Re: New EOTR Boxscores

Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:48 pm
by nibbler1982
Vandelay Industries wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:26 pm
At one time, TM controlled about 80% or so of the biz, and that was before they merged with LiveNation. So, if you want to die on an ant hill over the classification of "monopoly", have at it, but people with common sense aren't saying TM controls literally 100%....you're just arguing for the sake of arguing at this point...
Nobody’s dying on any hill.

I just wiped out the erroneous “monopoly stance” star_paul12 took and then you foolishly backed him up on.

I say the dynamic pricing is more anti monopoly than pro monopoly. Ultimately the consumer always set the price. Ticketmaster is so in tune with the consumer’s voice that if the public demands a lower price...they’ll do just that in a moment’s notice.

That’s certainly not the way a monopoly works.

Re: New EOTR Boxscores

Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:00 pm
by nibbler1982
Wichita77 wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:11 pm
nibbler1982 wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:04 pm

Ticketmaster assuredly does not have a monopoly on ticket sales. They have many competitors, including the venues themselves.

Maybe you’re not familiar with the definition?
Saying Ticketmaster was a "monopoly" was inaccurate on my part. I strive for accuracy in my posts and realized when I was away from a computer that I had missed it on that one. Still, in all fairness, it is easy to see why most have this perception.

There are companies like StubHub, Coast to Coast, Alliance Tickets, and others, who may be competitors but don't seem very competitive, perhaps due to TMs dominance in the field.

For example, just a quick look at the same seats for a Korn show on July 26 at Bridgestone Arena in Nashville.

Ticketmaster $265
StubHub $333
Alliance $312
Coast to Coast $442

Bridgestone's ticketing link directs you to TM.
Korn's ticketing link directs you to TM just like Kiss did.

So, TM is not a monopoly, but as far as I can see there isn't the kind of competition for concert seats that we find with airline seats and hotels. If there is an event ticketing company out there who is competing for my business, I've not found them yet.

Personally, I'm okay with that as I'm at a place in life where I've already seen my favorite bands in their prime, and I can afford to splurge now and then if the show is right. I like not having to wait all night for a good spot in the show, and enjoyed strolling up to my 9th row seat to see Kiss knowing my seat was safe.

Still, I am sympathetic to those who have to miss out because they've been priced out of the arena and I feel sorry for younger people who can't afford to go to as many shows as I used to go to as a kid. Sadly, for them, that's just the way it is.
Brother Wich, I hear what you’re saying loud and clear. I certainly wasn’t “stoked” to recently spend 10K on KISS tickets. The whole thing about it though, every ticket bought and every dollar spent was 100% my choice. There were a ton of options at my disposal.

Too many here feel they have a right to get whatever tickets they want at bargain prices they’re willing to pay.

I can’t label that thought process at anything short of insane.

Now let’s spend our time in a more productive way...like willing us a KISS concert at INTRUST in 2020. :D

Re: New EOTR Boxscores

Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:03 pm
by Vandelay Industries
"Ticketmaster is so in tune with the consumer's voice".....well, I almost got through that post with a straight face.

Keep on shilling!

People aren't buying tickets to one of the nine arks, they're buying tickets to a concert FFS...

Re: New EOTR Boxscores

Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:15 pm
by nibbler1982
Vandelay Industries wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:03 pm
"Ticketmaster is so in tune with the consumer's voice".....well, I almost got through that post with a straight face.

Keep on shilling!
This is what I’m talking about. It’s the the short end of the stick that you’re so comfortable with in a debate with me.

I cut your “monopoly” argument off at the knees. You’re irrefutably proven wrong. Done. Period.

So now I stop being so obtuse and take monopoly in a much broader and loosened stance and it still doesn’t measure up.

It’s known fact that the monopolistic giant Ticketmaster will slash tickets to a fraction of its original price if the public deems it so.

You can’t deny it, you know it’s true. What’s your comeback?

A snide remark about not being able to keep a straight face.

Well played.

Re: New EOTR Boxscores

Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:28 pm
by Much Too Soon
Much Too Soon wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:40 am
Much Too Soon wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:43 pm
Anyone that has purchased a KISS EOTR ticket with a gun at their back... please speak up.

Anyone......
Anyone??? 🦗🦗🦗
Anyone have their arm twisted??? 🤷‍♂️

Re: New EOTR Boxscores

Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:29 pm
by Vandelay Industries
Nice attempt at a turnaround. How hysterical of you to try spinning it as if Ticketmaster is some kind of honorable company doing a service for the public by pushing the envelope for as long as they can get away with it. How much do they pay you to troll the web?

I was already approaching sleepiness, but your last couple of posts sealed the deal. Have the last word on me, I'm calling it a night.

Re: New EOTR Boxscores

Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:46 pm
by nibbler1982
Vandelay Industries wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:29 pm
Nice attempt at a turnaround. How hysterical of you to try spinning it as if Ticketmaster is some kind of honorable company doing a service for the public by pushing the envelope for as long as they can get away with it. How much do they pay you to troll the web?

I was already approaching sleepiness, but your last couple of posts sealed the deal. Have the last word on me, I'm calling it a night.
Insults and nary an attempt at a debate on fact.

Fact is Ticketmaster can only charge what the public is willing to pay...or not pay for that matter. It not food, electric, gas, or water. We’re taking about entertainment here. They’re truly at our mercy when you think about it.

You’ll give me the last word?

No sir...I’ll TAKE the last word by force.

Re: New EOTR Boxscores

Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 4:22 am
by metaldad
Much Too Soon wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:28 pm
Much Too Soon wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:40 am
Much Too Soon wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:43 pm
Anyone that has purchased a KISS EOTR ticket with a gun at their back... please speak up.

Anyone......
Anyone??? 🦗🦗🦗
Anyone have their arm twisted??? 🤷‍♂️
Sorta 😎
What gets my goat is now they charge extra for Aisle seats and that is complete horseshit
The fee’s on the tickets I got for the EOTR were ridiculous
And of course you find out as your checking out
Anyone that went to shows in the NY area can attest
Nothing you can do about it if you want to see the show

Re: New EOTR Boxscores

Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 10:54 am
by nibbler1982
So adding up all boxscores I have 515,511 / $58,249,012 over 43 dates. Now that can differ from others if they or I don’t have the addended figures.

In Billboard’s article they went with 518,395 / $58,700,000. One difference that stands out is they have a Madison Square Garden gate of $1,947,000 while I have it down as $1,730,755. When it’s all said and done the total numbers are virtually identical.

I’m hoping for Toronto to come in to complete the set. I do believe we’ll get it eventually. That would make it 44 out of 44 shows. I don’t think we’ll be so lucky with Europe, but hopeful on the return trip to North America. I’d love to be wrong about Europe. Time will tell.

The numbers have certainly exceeded my expectations.

Re: New EOTR Boxscores

Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 3:24 pm
by Phyllis Simmons
nibbler1982 wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 3:13 pm
Phyllis Simmons wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 2:56 pm
Evo999 wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 11:51 am
Yeah, I don't like it. I get it that they are trying to squeeze out the scalpers but they really kick the long time fans who want to get good seats early.

Digital/tech is great but it's screwing up many aspects of the music business. I'm not clinking glasses over it, but Nibbs was called out for suggesting it, and it turns out, he was right.
I dont find a lot of this all that interesting as a subject; the new concert game and all.. But the notion of the fleecing of the earlybirds is pretty disgraceful. at its core..
5 sitting in a row coughed up their $750, and the next group of 5 next to them waited and coughed up their $250 for the exact same seats. Not sure how long people will be prepared to put up with that model... But like a lot of things in the current concert game, nobody seems to notice, nobody seems to care..
If those tickets are gonna be sold at $750 either way, who do you believe has a better claim on the money?

The band or the ticket broker?

The higher price tickets take the broker out of play. No resale value.

“Not sure how long people will be prepared to put up with that model”???

If the seats don’t move the price will come down accordingly, set by the buying public.
I've followed your points in this Nibbs and I agree with some what you say. However SOME tix do move at $750.. In your bigger markets - MOST may move at that price. So the market gets truly reset if NOTHING is moving.. Other than that - they're essentially gouging for half; and then "cutting" the other half? Some are still getting ripped off, and I would guess most arent aware they are getting ripped off; few of them would realise the guy next to them got his ticket at a third of what they as an early bird paid..

This is a tough one; I do see what you're saying here.. Paying your 750 guarantees you're "in"; or gamble waiting for the 250's at your own risk..( or risk missing out!). The concert industry is clearly going through a reset in recent years; I'm just not sure what we have in place now is the fairest and most sustainable model for the concert game... It will be interesting to see how it may evolve; but then again apathy is rife, so it may not need to!

Re: New EOTR Boxscores

Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 4:14 pm
by So Cruel
I think the concert industry is gonna be in a heap of trouble in a decade or so. It can survive off of these prices now because you have a lot of big bands from the 70’s and 80’s still touring. Their fans are older and have a lot more disposable income. What happens when these bands die off? How many arena packing artists have come out in the last 20 years? A whole lot less then in the decades prior.

I myself pick and choose now what shows I see. I’ll pay big $ if the artist still has it. I’m a big Stones fan but haven’t seen them since 98. I don’t think Keef does much more then pose with his guitar. Love U2, paid $300 for the Joshua Tree tour a few years ago, but they aren’t the live band they used to be. Good but not great anymore. Bruce is always a great show. Best performer ever and he still brings it. I’ll still pay top buck for Maiden and Pearl Jam. Haven’t seen Kiss since 2010. That show wasn’t good and they’ve only got worse since. Saw the Who in box seats a few years ago and it was a damn good show. I’ll see them again.

Re: New EOTR Boxscores

Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 4:26 pm
by nibbler1982
Phyllis Simmons wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 3:24 pm
nibbler1982 wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 3:13 pm
Phyllis Simmons wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 2:56 pm
Evo999 wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 11:51 am
Yeah, I don't like it. I get it that they are trying to squeeze out the scalpers but they really kick the long time fans who want to get good seats early.

Digital/tech is great but it's screwing up many aspects of the music business. I'm not clinking glasses over it, but Nibbs was called out for suggesting it, and it turns out, he was right.
I dont find a lot of this all that interesting as a subject; the new concert game and all.. But the notion of the fleecing of the earlybirds is pretty disgraceful. at its core..
5 sitting in a row coughed up their $750, and the next group of 5 next to them waited and coughed up their $250 for the exact same seats. Not sure how long people will be prepared to put up with that model... But like a lot of things in the current concert game, nobody seems to notice, nobody seems to care..
If those tickets are gonna be sold at $750 either way, who do you believe has a better claim on the money?

The band or the ticket broker?

The higher price tickets take the broker out of play. No resale value.

“Not sure how long people will be prepared to put up with that model”???

If the seats don’t move the price will come down accordingly, set by the buying public.
I've followed your points in this Nibbs and I agree with some what you say. However SOME tix do move at $750.. In your bigger markets - MOST may move at that price. So the market gets truly reset if NOTHING is moving.. Other than that - they're essentially gouging for half; and then "cutting" the other half? Some are still getting ripped off, and I would guess most arent aware they are getting ripped off; few of them would realise the guy next to them got his ticket at a third of what they as an early bird paid..

This is a tough one; I do see what you're saying here.. Paying your 750 guarantees you're "in"; or gamble waiting for the 250's at your own risk..( or risk missing out!). The concert industry is clearly going through a reset in recent years; I'm just not sure what we have in place now is the fairest and most sustainable model for the concert game... It will be interesting to see how it may evolve; but then again apathy is rife, so it may not need to!
You say “gouging for half”. All I see is a consumer paying market value for an available product. I’m sure KISS and Live Nation saw all those $250 “ringside” seats going for exorbitant prices on resale market for past tours. I guess they figured let’s cut out the middleman. I believe the band has more claim to those dollars than some broker.

If someone gets pissed that their neighbor paid less for the same seats they might not be as so inclined to do it again. Unless the need for those prime seats outweighs the anger that is. Either way the market sets the pace.

Whilst I would’ve LOVED to save THOUSANDS of dollars off of what I’ve already paid on this tour...I can’t argue with the checks and balances of supply and demand.

Re: New EOTR Boxscores

Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 5:45 pm
by Vandelay Industries
So Cruel wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 4:14 pm
I think the concert industry is gonna be in a heap of trouble in a decade or so. It can survive off of these prices now because you have a lot of big bands from the 70’s and 80’s still touring. Their fans are older and have a lot more disposable income. What happens when these bands die off? How many arena packing artists have come out in the last 20 years? A whole lot less then in the decades prior.
Yup. If some of these current artists are gonna get involved in the dynamic pricing game, then they better disappear for years in between tours, because it won't be sustainable on the regular.

I'm just glad that some bands want no part of it. I'm gonna see Phish next week, and they always bring the heat in concert in front of packed crowds. No dynamic pricing, price points with little to no disparity (other than lawn seats, obviously they'll be lower than pavilion seats), and the option for fans to pre-order tickets directly from the band...but they'll still gross a cool million (or so) every show, and they can come back every summer to the same city with similar results, because the fans don't feel like they're getting burned by overpaying. A million per show every year, sounds like good business to me...

Re: New EOTR Boxscores

Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:27 pm
by nibbler1982
Vandelay Industries wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 5:45 pm
So Cruel wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 4:14 pm
I think the concert industry is gonna be in a heap of trouble in a decade or so. It can survive off of these prices now because you have a lot of big bands from the 70’s and 80’s still touring. Their fans are older and have a lot more disposable income. What happens when these bands die off? How many arena packing artists have come out in the last 20 years? A whole lot less then in the decades prior.
Yup. If some of these current artists are gonna get involved in the dynamic pricing game, then they better disappear for years in between tours, because it won't be sustainable on the regular.

I'm just glad that some bands want no part of it. I'm gonna see Phish next week, and they always bring the heat in concert in front of packed crowds. No dynamic pricing, price points with little to no disparity (other than lawn seats, obviously they'll be lower than pavilion seats), and the option for fans to pre-order tickets directly from the band...but they'll still gross a cool million (or so) every show, and they can come back every summer to the same city with similar results, because the fans don't feel like they're getting burned by overpaying. A million per show every year, sounds like good business to me...
Unless the market dictates they could be pulling in $1.5M a show.

Then their business acumen is not only good...but good for the garbage.

Re: New EOTR Boxscores

Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:41 pm
by So Cruel
nibbler1982 wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:27 pm
Vandelay Industries wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 5:45 pm
So Cruel wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 4:14 pm
I think the concert industry is gonna be in a heap of trouble in a decade or so. It can survive off of these prices now because you have a lot of big bands from the 70’s and 80’s still touring. Their fans are older and have a lot more disposable income. What happens when these bands die off? How many arena packing artists have come out in the last 20 years? A whole lot less then in the decades prior.
Yup. If some of these current artists are gonna get involved in the dynamic pricing game, then they better disappear for years in between tours, because it won't be sustainable on the regular.

I'm just glad that some bands want no part of it. I'm gonna see Phish next week, and they always bring the heat in concert in front of packed crowds. No dynamic pricing, price points with little to no disparity (other than lawn seats, obviously they'll be lower than pavilion seats), and the option for fans to pre-order tickets directly from the band...but they'll still gross a cool million (or so) every show, and they can come back every summer to the same city with similar results, because the fans don't feel like they're getting burned by overpaying. A million per show every year, sounds like good business to me...
Unless the market dictates they could be pulling in $1.5M a show.

Then their business acumen is not only good...but good for the garbage.
That’s not fair Nibbler. There are notable artists who have tried hard to keep prices reasonable for their fans and not gone for every last buck.

I’ve seen Springsteen numerous times and while his prices have risen, he’s never charged top $ even though could.

Pearl Jams another band who are a great live act, sell out every show, but keep prices somewhat reasonable.

Hell, U2 in their prime in the early 90’s famously wouldn’t increase ticket prices by $10 on a sold out 2 year Stadium tour to ensure a profit. They only made $ from merchandise but wanted to keep the shows affordable for their fans. Of course they’ve changed a lot since then and now charge big for the good seats.

Not everyone is in it to get every last cent they can.

Re: New EOTR Boxscores

Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:56 pm
by Vandelay Industries
Maybe, just maybe, some bands show less contempt for their audience than others, "the market" be damned. I know, crazy concept, but I have a hunch Phish (and Pearl Jam, Springsteen, etc) know exactly what they're doing...

Re: New EOTR Boxscores

Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 9:06 pm
by Forevertj
If people bought records, these prices wouldn't be so high.

Re: New EOTR Boxscores

Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 9:34 pm
by Vandelay Industries
Forevertj wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 9:06 pm
If people bought records, these prices wouldn't be so high.
The Eagles were charging $100 a ticket when album sales were still booming, so it was gonna happen anyway.

Re: New EOTR Boxscores

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 2:39 pm
by nibbler1982
So Cruel wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:41 pm
nibbler1982 wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:27 pm
Vandelay Industries wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 5:45 pm
So Cruel wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 4:14 pm
I think the concert industry is gonna be in a heap of trouble in a decade or so. It can survive off of these prices now because you have a lot of big bands from the 70’s and 80’s still touring. Their fans are older and have a lot more disposable income. What happens when these bands die off? How many arena packing artists have come out in the last 20 years? A whole lot less then in the decades prior.
Yup. If some of these current artists are gonna get involved in the dynamic pricing game, then they better disappear for years in between tours, because it won't be sustainable on the regular.

I'm just glad that some bands want no part of it. I'm gonna see Phish next week, and they always bring the heat in concert in front of packed crowds. No dynamic pricing, price points with little to no disparity (other than lawn seats, obviously they'll be lower than pavilion seats), and the option for fans to pre-order tickets directly from the band...but they'll still gross a cool million (or so) every show, and they can come back every summer to the same city with similar results, because the fans don't feel like they're getting burned by overpaying. A million per show every year, sounds like good business to me...
Unless the market dictates they could be pulling in $1.5M a show.

Then their business acumen is not only good...but good for the garbage.
That’s not fair Nibbler. There are notable artists who have tried hard to keep prices reasonable for their fans and not gone for every last buck.

I’ve seen Springsteen numerous times and while his prices have risen, he’s never charged top $ even though could.

Pearl Jams another band who are a great live act, sell out every show, but keep prices somewhat reasonable.

Hell, U2 in their prime in the early 90’s famously wouldn’t increase ticket prices by $10 on a sold out 2 year Stadium tour to ensure a profit. They only made $ from merchandise but wanted to keep the shows affordable for their fans. Of course they’ve changed a lot since then and now charge big for the good seats.

Not everyone is in it to get every last cent they can.
I wish I could post a comparative analysis of the foregone benevolence of such artists but I can’t. I can only post the here and now.

Springsteen $508.93
U2 $140.39
KISS $112.99
Pear Jam $89.35
Phish $67.40

It appears reports of Springsteen’s and U2’s altruism (whether by you or others) have been greatly exaggerated.

I do see that Pearl Jam’s and Phish’s averages are on the lower end. That being said I have no way of knowing if...

1. That’s just market value. I’m going to guess the average age at those concerts are the lowest of the five. With that lower age I do believe it’s safe to say they would would have less disposable income.

2. Maybe Pearl Jam and Phish are content to let ticket brokers bleed their most loyal fans. The lower the ticket price, the more room there is profit on the secondary market. Pearl Jam isn’t currently touring, Phish is. Not my band, I’ve never seen them and probably never will. Closest I came was when one of their members had the opening slot for Tom Petty. Can’t remember his name but my 18 year old date was thrilled...I digress. I see TONS of tickets on the secondary market available for all of Phish’s shows. They seem content to let the brokers profit off their hard work.

It doesn’t sound like good business to me.

Re: New EOTR Boxscores

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:02 pm
by redinthesky
Vandelay Industries wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 9:34 pm
Forevertj wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 9:06 pm
If people bought records, these prices wouldn't be so high.
The Eagles were charging $100 a ticket when album sales were still booming, so it was gonna happen anyway.
If I'm not mistaken, The Eagles were the very first to break the "$100 barrier" for a basic concert ticket to a typical everyday show. May also have been the Stones but I think it was the Eagles. They knew something!

Re: New EOTR Boxscores

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:03 pm
by Thunderous_Lay
nibbler1982 wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 2:39 pm
Springsteen $508.93
I was going to make a joke but come to think of it, best not to.

The above aside, holy f*ck indeed...

To paraphrase Max Weinberg, "that's why he's the Boss."

Re: New EOTR Boxscores

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:27 pm
by Doose
Are those Springsteen prices for his Broadway show? If so, that's not a regular/true concert or concert venue. Broadway shows regularly charge $200-400 a ticket.

Re: New EOTR Boxscores

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:35 pm
by nibbler1982
Doose wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:27 pm
Are those Springsteen prices for his Broadway show? If so, that's not a regular/true concert or concert venue. Broadway shoes regularly charge $200-400 a ticket.
That is for his concerts on Broadway.

Does not the magnanimity, philanthropy, and social conscience apply to a concert on Broadway? Does it matter which promoter he tells “I will only play for ‘this’ much money.” My bad. I was just looking for the most recent data. We could use his 2016 numbers if you’d like.

Bruce Springsteen $125.29

Re: New EOTR Boxscores

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:51 pm
by Vandelay Industries
nibbler1982 wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 2:39 pm
So Cruel wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:41 pm
nibbler1982 wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:27 pm
Vandelay Industries wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 5:45 pm
So Cruel wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 4:14 pm
I think the concert industry is gonna be in a heap of trouble in a decade or so. It can survive off of these prices now because you have a lot of big bands from the 70’s and 80’s still touring. Their fans are older and have a lot more disposable income. What happens when these bands die off? How many arena packing artists have come out in the last 20 years? A whole lot less then in the decades prior.
Yup. If some of these current artists are gonna get involved in the dynamic pricing game, then they better disappear for years in between tours, because it won't be sustainable on the regular.

I'm just glad that some bands want no part of it. I'm gonna see Phish next week, and they always bring the heat in concert in front of packed crowds. No dynamic pricing, price points with little to no disparity (other than lawn seats, obviously they'll be lower than pavilion seats), and the option for fans to pre-order tickets directly from the band...but they'll still gross a cool million (or so) every show, and they can come back every summer to the same city with similar results, because the fans don't feel like they're getting burned by overpaying. A million per show every year, sounds like good business to me...
Unless the market dictates they could be pulling in $1.5M a show.

Then their business acumen is not only good...but good for the garbage.
That’s not fair Nibbler. There are notable artists who have tried hard to keep prices reasonable for their fans and not gone for every last buck.

I’ve seen Springsteen numerous times and while his prices have risen, he’s never charged top $ even though could.

Pearl Jams another band who are a great live act, sell out every show, but keep prices somewhat reasonable.

Hell, U2 in their prime in the early 90’s famously wouldn’t increase ticket prices by $10 on a sold out 2 year Stadium tour to ensure a profit. They only made $ from merchandise but wanted to keep the shows affordable for their fans. Of course they’ve changed a lot since then and now charge big for the good seats.

Not everyone is in it to get every last cent they can.
I wish I could post a comparative analysis of the foregone benevolence of such artists but I can’t. I can only post the here and now.

Springsteen $508.93
U2 $140.39
KISS $112.99
Pear Jam $89.35
Phish $67.40

It appears reports of Springsteen’s and U2’s altruism (whether by you or others) have been greatly exaggerated.

I do see that Pearl Jam’s and Phish’s averages are on the lower end. That being said I have no way of knowing if...

1. That’s just market value. I’m going to guess the average age at those concerts are the lowest of the five. With that lower age I do believe it’s safe to say they would would have less disposable income.

2. Maybe Pearl Jam and Phish are content to let ticket brokers bleed their most loyal fans. The lower the ticket price, the more room there is profit on the secondary market. Pearl Jam isn’t currently touring, Phish is. Not my band, I’ve never seen them and probably never will. Closest I came was when one of their members had the opening slot for Tom Petty. Can’t remember his name but my 18 year old date was thrilled...I digress. I see TONS of tickets on the secondary market available for all of Phish’s shows. They seem content to let the brokers profit off their hard work.

It doesn’t sound like good business to me.
It's good business when the fanbase is a pretty connected group as a whole, and do a pretty effective job policing themselves over matters such as ticket brokers. Yup, there's many tickets on the secondary market....and I've observed those brokers usually learning the hard way, year after year, that the majority of their fans, on principle, won't spend a nickel over face value. So, most brokers will ultimately discover that they've just wasted their own time.

Fan unity can be a powerful thing.....letting "ticket brokers bleed their most loyal fans" is mostly their (the brokers) own wishful thinking. As far as I'm concerned, it's too bad MORE fanbases can't get on the same page with one other....

Re: New EOTR Boxscores

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:53 pm
by Thunderous_Lay
Doose wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:27 pm
Are those Springsteen prices for his Broadway show? If so, that's not a regular/true concert or concert venue. Broadway shoes regularly charge $200-400 a ticket.
Thing is, many of those shows actually are, well... "Broadway shows."

Springsteen on Broadway, on the other hand, was nothing more than the Boss and his wife fleecing his rabid, brain-dead legion of fans, under the guise of musical theatre.

Also, nothing against Patti, but her singing ? Ughhh...

Re: New EOTR Boxscores

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:10 pm
by nibbler1982
Vandelay Industries wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:51 pm
nibbler1982 wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 2:39 pm
So Cruel wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:41 pm
nibbler1982 wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:27 pm
Vandelay Industries wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 5:45 pm
So Cruel wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 4:14 pm
I think the concert industry is gonna be in a heap of trouble in a decade or so. It can survive off of these prices now because you have a lot of big bands from the 70’s and 80’s still touring. Their fans are older and have a lot more disposable income. What happens when these bands die off? How many arena packing artists have come out in the last 20 years? A whole lot less then in the decades prior.
Yup. If some of these current artists are gonna get involved in the dynamic pricing game, then they better disappear for years in between tours, because it won't be sustainable on the regular.

I'm just glad that some bands want no part of it. I'm gonna see Phish next week, and they always bring the heat in concert in front of packed crowds. No dynamic pricing, price points with little to no disparity (other than lawn seats, obviously they'll be lower than pavilion seats), and the option for fans to pre-order tickets directly from the band...but they'll still gross a cool million (or so) every show, and they can come back every summer to the same city with similar results, because the fans don't feel like they're getting burned by overpaying. A million per show every year, sounds like good business to me...
Unless the market dictates they could be pulling in $1.5M a show.

Then their business acumen is not only good...but good for the garbage.
That’s not fair Nibbler. There are notable artists who have tried hard to keep prices reasonable for their fans and not gone for every last buck.

I’ve seen Springsteen numerous times and while his prices have risen, he’s never charged top $ even though could.

Pearl Jams another band who are a great live act, sell out every show, but keep prices somewhat reasonable.

Hell, U2 in their prime in the early 90’s famously wouldn’t increase ticket prices by $10 on a sold out 2 year Stadium tour to ensure a profit. They only made $ from merchandise but wanted to keep the shows affordable for their fans. Of course they’ve changed a lot since then and now charge big for the good seats.

Not everyone is in it to get every last cent they can.
I wish I could post a comparative analysis of the foregone benevolence of such artists but I can’t. I can only post the here and now.

Springsteen $508.93
U2 $140.39
KISS $112.99
Pear Jam $89.35
Phish $67.40

It appears reports of Springsteen’s and U2’s altruism (whether by you or others) have been greatly exaggerated.

I do see that Pearl Jam’s and Phish’s averages are on the lower end. That being said I have no way of knowing if...

1. That’s just market value. I’m going to guess the average age at those concerts are the lowest of the five. With that lower age I do believe it’s safe to say they would would have less disposable income.

2. Maybe Pearl Jam and Phish are content to let ticket brokers bleed their most loyal fans. The lower the ticket price, the more room there is profit on the secondary market. Pearl Jam isn’t currently touring, Phish is. Not my band, I’ve never seen them and probably never will. Closest I came was when one of their members had the opening slot for Tom Petty. Can’t remember his name but my 18 year old date was thrilled...I digress. I see TONS of tickets on the secondary market available for all of Phish’s shows. They seem content to let the brokers profit off their hard work.

It doesn’t sound like good business to me.
It's good business when the fanbase is a pretty connected group as a whole, and do a pretty effective job policing themselves over matters such as ticket brokers. Yup, there's many tickets on the secondary market....and I've observed those brokers usually learning the hard way, year after year, that the majority of their fans, on principle, won't spend a nickel over face value. So, most brokers will ultimately discover that they've just wasted their own time.

Fan unity can be a powerful thing.....letting "ticket brokers bleed their most loyal fans" is mostly their (the brokers) own wishful thinking. As far as I'm concerned, it's too bad MORE fanbases can't get on the same page with one other....
So you’re more educated than the brokers? You have the scenario all figured out. You know full well the collective hive minded proletariat will rise against the aristocracy and choke them into submission with their just deserts?

Score one for Vandy and the Hive!

I almost feel bad for the brokers.

You’d a thought they’d learn by now looking at the availability for Fenway (amongst other locales).

Looking at that sea of blue that’s gonna be one rude awakening for all those brokers apparently in the dark.

Let’s hear it for the little guy!

Re: New EOTR Boxscores

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:17 pm
by nibbler1982
Thunderous_Lay wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:53 pm
Doose wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:27 pm
Are those Springsteen prices for his Broadway show? If so, that's not a regular/true concert or concert venue. Broadway shoes regularly charge $200-400 a ticket.
Thing is, many of those shows actually are, well... "Broadway shows."

Springsteen on Broadway, on the other hand, was nothing more than the Boss and his wife fleecing his rabid, brain-dead legion of fans, under the guise of musical theatre.

Also, nothing against Patti, but her singing ? Ughhh...
That’s what I’m saying. This is the perfect example of The Boss absolutely gutting his most loyal fans. He told the promoters, “Shit...with only a thousand seats in the venue I’m not gonna do this for any less than a $XXX,XXX guarantee.” The only way that was possible was setting tix in a $75-$850 spectrum.

Bruce sure is swell. :D

Re: New EOTR Boxscores

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:34 pm
by Evo999
nibbler1982 wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:17 pm
Thunderous_Lay wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:53 pm
Doose wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:27 pm
Are those Springsteen prices for his Broadway show? If so, that's not a regular/true concert or concert venue. Broadway shoes regularly charge $200-400 a ticket.
Thing is, many of those shows actually are, well... "Broadway shows."

Springsteen on Broadway, on the other hand, was nothing more than the Boss and his wife fleecing his rabid, brain-dead legion of fans, under the guise of musical theatre.

Also, nothing against Patti, but her singing ? Ughhh...
That’s what I’m saying. This is the perfect example of The Boss absolutely gutting his most loyal fans. He told the promoters, “Shit...with only a thousand seats in the venue I’m not gonna do this for any less than a $XXX,XXX guarantee.” The only way that was possible was setting tix in a $75-$850 spectrum.

Bruce sure is swell. :D
The whole monopoly thing is an irrelevant argument here. The only thing TM has a monopoly on, to some extent is the fees. I think people are forgetting, THEY DON'T SET THE PRICES - the artist does. If dynamic pricing pisses you off (which it does me for a few reasons) blame the artists, not ticketmaster.

Each artist is the monopoly of their own ticket pricing, other than the scalpers, who took the bands pricing and marked it up based on supply and demand. Now they are squeezing the scalpers out.

There never was "competition" for tickets to shows. Anything that didn't come directly from the venue would be tickets being resold for MORE than what the band wanted. You'd get them for less if they were stuck with them close to showtime. Sounds vaguely familiar......

Re: New EOTR Boxscores

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:42 pm
by Vandelay Industries
nibbler1982 wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:10 pm
Vandelay Industries wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:51 pm
nibbler1982 wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 2:39 pm
So Cruel wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:41 pm
nibbler1982 wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:27 pm
Vandelay Industries wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 5:45 pm
So Cruel wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 4:14 pm
I think the concert industry is gonna be in a heap of trouble in a decade or so. It can survive off of these prices now because you have a lot of big bands from the 70’s and 80’s still touring. Their fans are older and have a lot more disposable income. What happens when these bands die off? How many arena packing artists have come out in the last 20 years? A whole lot less then in the decades prior.
Yup. If some of these current artists are gonna get involved in the dynamic pricing game, then they better disappear for years in between tours, because it won't be sustainable on the regular.

I'm just glad that some bands want no part of it. I'm gonna see Phish next week, and they always bring the heat in concert in front of packed crowds. No dynamic pricing, price points with little to no disparity (other than lawn seats, obviously they'll be lower than pavilion seats), and the option for fans to pre-order tickets directly from the band...but they'll still gross a cool million (or so) every show, and they can come back every summer to the same city with similar results, because the fans don't feel like they're getting burned by overpaying. A million per show every year, sounds like good business to me...
Unless the market dictates they could be pulling in $1.5M a show.

Then their business acumen is not only good...but good for the garbage.
That’s not fair Nibbler. There are notable artists who have tried hard to keep prices reasonable for their fans and not gone for every last buck.

I’ve seen Springsteen numerous times and while his prices have risen, he’s never charged top $ even though could.

Pearl Jams another band who are a great live act, sell out every show, but keep prices somewhat reasonable.

Hell, U2 in their prime in the early 90’s famously wouldn’t increase ticket prices by $10 on a sold out 2 year Stadium tour to ensure a profit. They only made $ from merchandise but wanted to keep the shows affordable for their fans. Of course they’ve changed a lot since then and now charge big for the good seats.

Not everyone is in it to get every last cent they can.
I wish I could post a comparative analysis of the foregone benevolence of such artists but I can’t. I can only post the here and now.

Springsteen $508.93
U2 $140.39
KISS $112.99
Pear Jam $89.35
Phish $67.40

It appears reports of Springsteen’s and U2’s altruism (whether by you or others) have been greatly exaggerated.

I do see that Pearl Jam’s and Phish’s averages are on the lower end. That being said I have no way of knowing if...

1. That’s just market value. I’m going to guess the average age at those concerts are the lowest of the five. With that lower age I do believe it’s safe to say they would would have less disposable income.

2. Maybe Pearl Jam and Phish are content to let ticket brokers bleed their most loyal fans. The lower the ticket price, the more room there is profit on the secondary market. Pearl Jam isn’t currently touring, Phish is. Not my band, I’ve never seen them and probably never will. Closest I came was when one of their members had the opening slot for Tom Petty. Can’t remember his name but my 18 year old date was thrilled...I digress. I see TONS of tickets on the secondary market available for all of Phish’s shows. They seem content to let the brokers profit off their hard work.

It doesn’t sound like good business to me.
It's good business when the fanbase is a pretty connected group as a whole, and do a pretty effective job policing themselves over matters such as ticket brokers. Yup, there's many tickets on the secondary market....and I've observed those brokers usually learning the hard way, year after year, that the majority of their fans, on principle, won't spend a nickel over face value. So, most brokers will ultimately discover that they've just wasted their own time.

Fan unity can be a powerful thing.....letting "ticket brokers bleed their most loyal fans" is mostly their (the brokers) own wishful thinking. As far as I'm concerned, it's too bad MORE fanbases can't get on the same page with one other....
So you’re more educated than the brokers? You have the scenario all figured out. You know full well the collective hive minded proletariat will rise against the aristocracy and choke them into submission with their just deserts?

Score one for Vandy and the Hive!

I almost feel bad for the brokers.

You’d a thought they’d learn by now looking at the availability for Fenway (amongst other locales).

Looking at that sea of blue that’s gonna be one rude awakening for all those brokers apparently in the dark.

Let’s hear it for the little guy!
Might be hard for you to swallow, but their fans (and other fanbases too, they're not alone) have stuck it to the brokers many times. They've got the core numbers, and their forums (which are far from dead in activity) are on top of this issue regularly.

Come showtime, Fenway will be packed, and the people in attendance will have paid exactly what they should've in the first place. Most of the brokers will be scrambling to transfer their e-tickets for the price they paid at the last possible minute.

The Phish's and Pearl Jams of the world aren't gonna dethrone Ticketmaster, but I at least appreciate that they're trying not to cross the proverbial picket line. Only on a Kiss board would someone actually criticize them for that, lmao....

Re: New EOTR Boxscores

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:46 pm
by nibbler1982
Evo999 wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:34 pm
nibbler1982 wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:17 pm
Thunderous_Lay wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:53 pm
Doose wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:27 pm
Are those Springsteen prices for his Broadway show? If so, that's not a regular/true concert or concert venue. Broadway shoes regularly charge $200-400 a ticket.
Thing is, many of those shows actually are, well... "Broadway shows."

Springsteen on Broadway, on the other hand, was nothing more than the Boss and his wife fleecing his rabid, brain-dead legion of fans, under the guise of musical theatre.

Also, nothing against Patti, but her singing ? Ughhh...
That’s what I’m saying. This is the perfect example of The Boss absolutely gutting his most loyal fans. He told the promoters, “Shit...with only a thousand seats in the venue I’m not gonna do this for any less than a $XXX,XXX guarantee.” The only way that was possible was setting tix in a $75-$850 spectrum.

Bruce sure is swell. :D
The whole monopoly thing is an irrelevant argument here. The only thing TM has a monopoly on, to some extent is the fees. I think people are forgetting, THEY DON'T SET THE PRICES - the artist does. If dynamic pricing pisses you off (which it does me for a few reasons) blame the artists, not ticketmaster.

Each artist is the monopoly of their own ticket pricing, other than the scalpers, who took the bands pricing and marked it up based on supply and demand. Now they are squeezing the scalpers out.

There never was "competition" for tickets to shows. Anything that didn't come directly from the venue would be tickets being resold for MORE than what the band wanted. You'd get them for less if they were stuck with them close to showtime. Sounds vaguely familiar......
Brother 999...they naysayers have nothing left to say.

The End Of The Road is an unparalleled success.

While sitting there and eating crow would’ve been the dignified thing to do...it was never gonna happen.

Sit back and enjoy. :D

Re: New EOTR Boxscores

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:46 pm
by Vandelay Industries
Evo999 wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:34 pm
nibbler1982 wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:17 pm
Thunderous_Lay wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:53 pm
Doose wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:27 pm
Are those Springsteen prices for his Broadway show? If so, that's not a regular/true concert or concert venue. Broadway shoes regularly charge $200-400 a ticket.
Thing is, many of those shows actually are, well... "Broadway shows."

Springsteen on Broadway, on the other hand, was nothing more than the Boss and his wife fleecing his rabid, brain-dead legion of fans, under the guise of musical theatre.

Also, nothing against Patti, but her singing ? Ughhh...
That’s what I’m saying. This is the perfect example of The Boss absolutely gutting his most loyal fans. He told the promoters, “Shit...with only a thousand seats in the venue I’m not gonna do this for any less than a $XXX,XXX guarantee.” The only way that was possible was setting tix in a $75-$850 spectrum.

Bruce sure is swell. :D
The whole monopoly thing is an irrelevant argument here. The only thing TM has a monopoly on, to some extent is the fees. I think people are forgetting, THEY DON'T SET THE PRICES - the artist does. If dynamic pricing pisses you off (which it does me for a few reasons) blame the artists, not ticketmaster.

Each artist is the monopoly of their own ticket pricing, other than the scalpers, who took the bands pricing and marked it up based on supply and demand. Now they are squeezing the scalpers out.

There never was "competition" for tickets to shows. Anything that didn't come directly from the venue would be tickets being resold for MORE than what the band wanted. You'd get them for less if they were stuck with them close to showtime. Sounds vaguely familiar......
You can blame the bots, too. They've played a part in creating an artificial urgency to the customers, many of which bite the bullet and pay up. No wonder Ticketmaster is in no hurry to counter the bots (which I've just read account for 40% of ticket activity, FFS), despite legislation being passed restricting it...

Re: New EOTR Boxscores

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:51 pm
by nibbler1982
Vandelay Industries wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:42 pm
nibbler1982 wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:10 pm
Vandelay Industries wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:51 pm
nibbler1982 wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 2:39 pm
So Cruel wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:41 pm
nibbler1982 wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:27 pm
Vandelay Industries wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 5:45 pm
So Cruel wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 4:14 pm
I think the concert industry is gonna be in a heap of trouble in a decade or so. It can survive off of these prices now because you have a lot of big bands from the 70’s and 80’s still touring. Their fans are older and have a lot more disposable income. What happens when these bands die off? How many arena packing artists have come out in the last 20 years? A whole lot less then in the decades prior.
Yup. If some of these current artists are gonna get involved in the dynamic pricing game, then they better disappear for years in between tours, because it won't be sustainable on the regular.

I'm just glad that some bands want no part of it. I'm gonna see Phish next week, and they always bring the heat in concert in front of packed crowds. No dynamic pricing, price points with little to no disparity (other than lawn seats, obviously they'll be lower than pavilion seats), and the option for fans to pre-order tickets directly from the band...but they'll still gross a cool million (or so) every show, and they can come back every summer to the same city with similar results, because the fans don't feel like they're getting burned by overpaying. A million per show every year, sounds like good business to me...
Unless the market dictates they could be pulling in $1.5M a show.

Then their business acumen is not only good...but good for the garbage.
That’s not fair Nibbler. There are notable artists who have tried hard to keep prices reasonable for their fans and not gone for every last buck.

I’ve seen Springsteen numerous times and while his prices have risen, he’s never charged top $ even though could.

Pearl Jams another band who are a great live act, sell out every show, but keep prices somewhat reasonable.

Hell, U2 in their prime in the early 90’s famously wouldn’t increase ticket prices by $10 on a sold out 2 year Stadium tour to ensure a profit. They only made $ from merchandise but wanted to keep the shows affordable for their fans. Of course they’ve changed a lot since then and now charge big for the good seats.

Not everyone is in it to get every last cent they can.
I wish I could post a comparative analysis of the foregone benevolence of such artists but I can’t. I can only post the here and now.

Springsteen $508.93
U2 $140.39
KISS $112.99
Pear Jam $89.35
Phish $67.40

It appears reports of Springsteen’s and U2’s altruism (whether by you or others) have been greatly exaggerated.

I do see that Pearl Jam’s and Phish’s averages are on the lower end. That being said I have no way of knowing if...

1. That’s just market value. I’m going to guess the average age at those concerts are the lowest of the five. With that lower age I do believe it’s safe to say they would would have less disposable income.

2. Maybe Pearl Jam and Phish are content to let ticket brokers bleed their most loyal fans. The lower the ticket price, the more room there is profit on the secondary market. Pearl Jam isn’t currently touring, Phish is. Not my band, I’ve never seen them and probably never will. Closest I came was when one of their members had the opening slot for Tom Petty. Can’t remember his name but my 18 year old date was thrilled...I digress. I see TONS of tickets on the secondary market available for all of Phish’s shows. They seem content to let the brokers profit off their hard work.

It doesn’t sound like good business to me.
It's good business when the fanbase is a pretty connected group as a whole, and do a pretty effective job policing themselves over matters such as ticket brokers. Yup, there's many tickets on the secondary market....and I've observed those brokers usually learning the hard way, year after year, that the majority of their fans, on principle, won't spend a nickel over face value. So, most brokers will ultimately discover that they've just wasted their own time.

Fan unity can be a powerful thing.....letting "ticket brokers bleed their most loyal fans" is mostly their (the brokers) own wishful thinking. As far as I'm concerned, it's too bad MORE fanbases can't get on the same page with one other....
So you’re more educated than the brokers? You have the scenario all figured out. You know full well the collective hive minded proletariat will rise against the aristocracy and choke them into submission with their just deserts?

Score one for Vandy and the Hive!

I almost feel bad for the brokers.

You’d a thought they’d learn by now looking at the availability for Fenway (amongst other locales).

Looking at that sea of blue that’s gonna be one rude awakening for all those brokers apparently in the dark.

Let’s hear it for the little guy!
Might be hard for you to swallow, but their fans (and other fanbases too, they're not alone) have stuck it to the brokers many times. They've got the core numbers, and their forums (which are far from dead in activity) are on top of this issue regularly.

Come showtime, Fenway will be packed, and the people in attendance will have paid exactly what they should've in the first place. Most of the brokers will be scrambling to transfer their e-tickets for the price they paid at the last possible minute.

The Phish's and Pearl Jams of the world aren't gonna dethrone Ticketmaster, but I at least appreciate that they're trying not to cross the proverbial picket line. Only on a Kiss board would someone actually criticize them for that, lmao....
Says you. I can’t believe you have the gall to think YOU know this inside info but it got right by the industry that does this for a living.

The available inventory says otherwise.

But then again, I forget that you’re smarter than the brokers.

You could at least try to come back with some data to back up what your saying.

Re: New EOTR Boxscores

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:59 pm
by Vandelay Industries
nibbler1982 wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:51 pm
Vandelay Industries wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:42 pm
nibbler1982 wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:10 pm
Vandelay Industries wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:51 pm
nibbler1982 wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 2:39 pm
So Cruel wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:41 pm
nibbler1982 wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:27 pm
Vandelay Industries wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 5:45 pm
So Cruel wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 4:14 pm
I think the concert industry is gonna be in a heap of trouble in a decade or so. It can survive off of these prices now because you have a lot of big bands from the 70’s and 80’s still touring. Their fans are older and have a lot more disposable income. What happens when these bands die off? How many arena packing artists have come out in the last 20 years? A whole lot less then in the decades prior.
Yup. If some of these current artists are gonna get involved in the dynamic pricing game, then they better disappear for years in between tours, because it won't be sustainable on the regular.

I'm just glad that some bands want no part of it. I'm gonna see Phish next week, and they always bring the heat in concert in front of packed crowds. No dynamic pricing, price points with little to no disparity (other than lawn seats, obviously they'll be lower than pavilion seats), and the option for fans to pre-order tickets directly from the band...but they'll still gross a cool million (or so) every show, and they can come back every summer to the same city with similar results, because the fans don't feel like they're getting burned by overpaying. A million per show every year, sounds like good business to me...
Unless the market dictates they could be pulling in $1.5M a show.

Then their business acumen is not only good...but good for the garbage.
That’s not fair Nibbler. There are notable artists who have tried hard to keep prices reasonable for their fans and not gone for every last buck.

I’ve seen Springsteen numerous times and while his prices have risen, he’s never charged top $ even though could.

Pearl Jams another band who are a great live act, sell out every show, but keep prices somewhat reasonable.

Hell, U2 in their prime in the early 90’s famously wouldn’t increase ticket prices by $10 on a sold out 2 year Stadium tour to ensure a profit. They only made $ from merchandise but wanted to keep the shows affordable for their fans. Of course they’ve changed a lot since then and now charge big for the good seats.

Not everyone is in it to get every last cent they can.
I wish I could post a comparative analysis of the foregone benevolence of such artists but I can’t. I can only post the here and now.

Springsteen $508.93
U2 $140.39
KISS $112.99
Pear Jam $89.35
Phish $67.40

It appears reports of Springsteen’s and U2’s altruism (whether by you or others) have been greatly exaggerated.

I do see that Pearl Jam’s and Phish’s averages are on the lower end. That being said I have no way of knowing if...

1. That’s just market value. I’m going to guess the average age at those concerts are the lowest of the five. With that lower age I do believe it’s safe to say they would would have less disposable income.

2. Maybe Pearl Jam and Phish are content to let ticket brokers bleed their most loyal fans. The lower the ticket price, the more room there is profit on the secondary market. Pearl Jam isn’t currently touring, Phish is. Not my band, I’ve never seen them and probably never will. Closest I came was when one of their members had the opening slot for Tom Petty. Can’t remember his name but my 18 year old date was thrilled...I digress. I see TONS of tickets on the secondary market available for all of Phish’s shows. They seem content to let the brokers profit off their hard work.

It doesn’t sound like good business to me.
It's good business when the fanbase is a pretty connected group as a whole, and do a pretty effective job policing themselves over matters such as ticket brokers. Yup, there's many tickets on the secondary market....and I've observed those brokers usually learning the hard way, year after year, that the majority of their fans, on principle, won't spend a nickel over face value. So, most brokers will ultimately discover that they've just wasted their own time.

Fan unity can be a powerful thing.....letting "ticket brokers bleed their most loyal fans" is mostly their (the brokers) own wishful thinking. As far as I'm concerned, it's too bad MORE fanbases can't get on the same page with one other....
So you’re more educated than the brokers? You have the scenario all figured out. You know full well the collective hive minded proletariat will rise against the aristocracy and choke them into submission with their just deserts?

Score one for Vandy and the Hive!

I almost feel bad for the brokers.

You’d a thought they’d learn by now looking at the availability for Fenway (amongst other locales).

Looking at that sea of blue that’s gonna be one rude awakening for all those brokers apparently in the dark.

Let’s hear it for the little guy!
Might be hard for you to swallow, but their fans (and other fanbases too, they're not alone) have stuck it to the brokers many times. They've got the core numbers, and their forums (which are far from dead in activity) are on top of this issue regularly.

Come showtime, Fenway will be packed, and the people in attendance will have paid exactly what they should've in the first place. Most of the brokers will be scrambling to transfer their e-tickets for the price they paid at the last possible minute.

The Phish's and Pearl Jams of the world aren't gonna dethrone Ticketmaster, but I at least appreciate that they're trying not to cross the proverbial picket line. Only on a Kiss board would someone actually criticize them for that, lmao....
Says you. I can’t believe you have the gall to think YOU know this inside info but it got right by the industry that does this for a living.

The available inventory says otherwise.

But then again, I forget that you’re smarter than the brokers.

You could at least try to come back with some data to back up what your saying.
You know what's worse than knowing what you don't know? NOT knowing what you don't know. But carry on anyway :lol:

See you on July 6, the day after the Fenway show (edit: make it July 7, I forgot they're playing 2 shows there, lol). The brokers are eating their own balls from buying those tickets, and their loss will be someone else's gain. From my own personal experience, I can emphatically say the brokers can't claim that no one warned them...

Re: New EOTR Boxscores

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 5:01 pm
by BeholderFan
Vandelay Industries wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 9:34 pm
Forevertj wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 9:06 pm
If people bought records, these prices wouldn't be so high.
The Eagles were charging $100 a ticket when album sales were still booming, so it was gonna happen anyway.
Exactly. People use "lack of people buying music/records" as a cop out.

Re: New EOTR Boxscores

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 5:20 pm
by nibbler1982
Vandelay Industries wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:59 pm
nibbler1982 wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:51 pm
Vandelay Industries wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:42 pm
nibbler1982 wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:10 pm
Vandelay Industries wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:51 pm
nibbler1982 wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 2:39 pm
So Cruel wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:41 pm
nibbler1982 wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:27 pm
Vandelay Industries wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 5:45 pm
So Cruel wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 4:14 pm
I think the concert industry is gonna be in a heap of trouble in a decade or so. It can survive off of these prices now because you have a lot of big bands from the 70’s and 80’s still touring. Their fans are older and have a lot more disposable income. What happens when these bands die off? How many arena packing artists have come out in the last 20 years? A whole lot less then in the decades prior.
Yup. If some of these current artists are gonna get involved in the dynamic pricing game, then they better disappear for years in between tours, because it won't be sustainable on the regular.

I'm just glad that some bands want no part of it. I'm gonna see Phish next week, and they always bring the heat in concert in front of packed crowds. No dynamic pricing, price points with little to no disparity (other than lawn seats, obviously they'll be lower than pavilion seats), and the option for fans to pre-order tickets directly from the band...but they'll still gross a cool million (or so) every show, and they can come back every summer to the same city with similar results, because the fans don't feel like they're getting burned by overpaying. A million per show every year, sounds like good business to me...
Unless the market dictates they could be pulling in $1.5M a show.

Then their business acumen is not only good...but good for the garbage.
That’s not fair Nibbler. There are notable artists who have tried hard to keep prices reasonable for their fans and not gone for every last buck.

I’ve seen Springsteen numerous times and while his prices have risen, he’s never charged top $ even though could.

Pearl Jams another band who are a great live act, sell out every show, but keep prices somewhat reasonable.

Hell, U2 in their prime in the early 90’s famously wouldn’t increase ticket prices by $10 on a sold out 2 year Stadium tour to ensure a profit. They only made $ from merchandise but wanted to keep the shows affordable for their fans. Of course they’ve changed a lot since then and now charge big for the good seats.

Not everyone is in it to get every last cent they can.
I wish I could post a comparative analysis of the foregone benevolence of such artists but I can’t. I can only post the here and now.

Springsteen $508.93
U2 $140.39
KISS $112.99
Pear Jam $89.35
Phish $67.40

It appears reports of Springsteen’s and U2’s altruism (whether by you or others) have been greatly exaggerated.

I do see that Pearl Jam’s and Phish’s averages are on the lower end. That being said I have no way of knowing if...

1. That’s just market value. I’m going to guess the average age at those concerts are the lowest of the five. With that lower age I do believe it’s safe to say they would would have less disposable income.

2. Maybe Pearl Jam and Phish are content to let ticket brokers bleed their most loyal fans. The lower the ticket price, the more room there is profit on the secondary market. Pearl Jam isn’t currently touring, Phish is. Not my band, I’ve never seen them and probably never will. Closest I came was when one of their members had the opening slot for Tom Petty. Can’t remember his name but my 18 year old date was thrilled...I digress. I see TONS of tickets on the secondary market available for all of Phish’s shows. They seem content to let the brokers profit off their hard work.

It doesn’t sound like good business to me.
It's good business when the fanbase is a pretty connected group as a whole, and do a pretty effective job policing themselves over matters such as ticket brokers. Yup, there's many tickets on the secondary market....and I've observed those brokers usually learning the hard way, year after year, that the majority of their fans, on principle, won't spend a nickel over face value. So, most brokers will ultimately discover that they've just wasted their own time.

Fan unity can be a powerful thing.....letting "ticket brokers bleed their most loyal fans" is mostly their (the brokers) own wishful thinking. As far as I'm concerned, it's too bad MORE fanbases can't get on the same page with one other....
So you’re more educated than the brokers? You have the scenario all figured out. You know full well the collective hive minded proletariat will rise against the aristocracy and choke them into submission with their just deserts?

Score one for Vandy and the Hive!

I almost feel bad for the brokers.

You’d a thought they’d learn by now looking at the availability for Fenway (amongst other locales).

Looking at that sea of blue that’s gonna be one rude awakening for all those brokers apparently in the dark.

Let’s hear it for the little guy!
Might be hard for you to swallow, but their fans (and other fanbases too, they're not alone) have stuck it to the brokers many times. They've got the core numbers, and their forums (which are far from dead in activity) are on top of this issue regularly.

Come showtime, Fenway will be packed, and the people in attendance will have paid exactly what they should've in the first place. Most of the brokers will be scrambling to transfer their e-tickets for the price they paid at the last possible minute.

The Phish's and Pearl Jams of the world aren't gonna dethrone Ticketmaster, but I at least appreciate that they're trying not to cross the proverbial picket line. Only on a Kiss board would someone actually criticize them for that, lmao....
Says you. I can’t believe you have the gall to think YOU know this inside info but it got right by the industry that does this for a living.

The available inventory says otherwise.

But then again, I forget that you’re smarter than the brokers.

You could at least try to come back with some data to back up what your saying.
You know what's worse than knowing what you don't know? NOT knowing what you don't know. But carry on anyway :lol:

See you on July 6, the day after the Fenway show. The brokers are eating their own balls from buying those tickets, and their loss will be someone else's gain. From my own personal experience, I can emphatically say the brokers can't claim that no one warned them...
So you stand by the claim that you know more than the brokers?

This hive mentality that only you’re privy to and has gone on for years is a complete secret. Tour after tour, show upon show it’s gonna once again completely blindside the people that do this for a living?

How can you say such things with a straight face?

Re: New EOTR Boxscores

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 5:31 pm
by Vandelay Industries
You're pretty good at dot counting, so click on each section and count up the available tickets. I bet that "sea of blue" adds up to less than 500 tickets, regular and resale combined. Maybe an occasional single ticket sprinkled in there, too. Good day at the office for a show with 40,000 capacity. Nice try at deception tho, I'll give you that :lol:

Re: New EOTR Boxscores

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 6:26 pm
by nibbler1982
Vandelay Industries wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 5:31 pm
You're pretty good at dot counting, so click on each section and count up the available tickets. I bet that "sea of blue" adds up to less than 500 tickets, regular and resale combined. Maybe an occasional single ticket sprinkled in there, too. Good day at the office for a show with 40,000 capacity. Nice try at deception tho, I'll give you that :lol:
1. There are not dots to count, the map direct allow it.

2. They are ALL RESALE TICKETS.

3. I hope Phish’s tickets original ticket prices aren’t as cheap as you say they are. If so they’re making a BOATLOAD of money for the brokers.

4. Which brings me back to my original comment.

5. Putting money in brokers pockets and not yourself seems like bad business acumen to me.

Re: New EOTR Boxscores

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 6:39 pm
by Vandelay Industries
You're showing me a screenshot from Ticketmaster's own resale site? Color me SHOCKED that they're going for those prices, lol...besides, those tix are NOT sold, so what exactly are you trying to prove?

Prices are alot more down to earth on other resale sites, and most of the band's potential customers are still holding firm.

The last time they played Fenway, the scalpers bit off way more than they could chew, and it looks like history will repeat itself...

Re: New EOTR Boxscores

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 6:42 pm
by rscott71
Is there a PhishFaq website? maybe some folks would be more comfortable over there

Re: New EOTR Boxscores

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 6:57 pm
by Vandelay Industries
The point wasn't about Phish, the point was about different types of fanbases. Nonetheless, sorry that the mere mention of another band's name got you triggered enough to make a snarky comment. Consider my previous post to be the last word about it, unless it gets continued at the music board.