Shock Me slow motion

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Shock Me slow motion

Post by DemonFilth2001 »



And his bandmate is playing the UFO guitar for some reason?
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Re: Shock Me slow motion

Post by belgiankissarmy »

And it dragged on and on and on.
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Re: Shock Me slow motion

Post by Ack66 »

Fuck Ace.
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Re: Shock Me slow motion

Post by Much Too Soon »

You’d really have to be there to actually hear the sound. Cell phones capture a small %age of sound. Not a good representation at all.
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Re: Shock Me slow motion

Post by TheSpoiler »

WTF is with the Anthill Mob thing they do after the solo? :lol: :lol:
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Re: Shock Me slow motion

Post by TheKISSProject7312 »

To my ears, the tempo isn't noticeably slower than the studio cut, rather it's the down tuning that makes it seem more plodding.
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Re: Shock Me slow motion

Post by redinthesky »

I'll never see or understand the need for three guitars. I don't believe "fill out the sound" is a good reason, that's what a rhythm guitar is for. Three is too much and ridiculous.
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Re: Shock Me slow motion

Post by banks »

TheKISSProject7312 wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 8:17 am To my ears, the tempo isn't noticeably slower than the studio cut, rather it's the down tuning that makes it seem more plodding.
Yeah, the tempo sounds fine to me.
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Re: Shock Me slow motion

Post by BC Witch »

The tempo is fine, the drummer just doesn't have the right feel to make it swing the way Peter did. It's a real issue with modern drummers trying to play 70s stuff - all of those great 70s rock drummers including Bonham, Bill Ward and Peter had grown up listening to jazz and they played a lot of ghost notes and really swung the rhythms. This guy is just pounding away with no real understanding of the groove of the song.
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Re: Shock Me slow motion

Post by Bruce »

I like that avatar, DemonFilth!
Good job.
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Re: Shock Me slow motion

Post by vinniestkulick »

I'm not sure why most bands default to studio tempos, live, but they do... fans react to energy, and a slight uptick in tempo makes a difference. Some folks complained about Eric Carr's tempos, but I loved the increased energy.
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Re: Shock Me slow motion

Post by Tito »

I don't think it's a tempo issue as such, but more about Matt Starr's playing fourths on an open hi-hat (instead of eights on a closed one) which takes away from the song's swagger and gives it a heavy, plodding feel.
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Re: Shock Me slow motion

Post by Man of a Thousand Aces »

Much Too Soon wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 7:49 am You’d really have to be there to actually hear the sound. Cell phones capture a small %age of sound. Not a good representation at all.

Cell phones don't change the tempo.
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Re: Shock Me slow motion

Post by TheKISSProject7312 »

Man of a Thousand Aces wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 11:14 am
Much Too Soon wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 7:49 am You’d really have to be there to actually hear the sound. Cell phones capture a small %age of sound. Not a good representation at all.

Cell phones don't change the tempo.
Neither did Ace, the tempo is fine. They need to tune the guitars back up and sack the drummer.
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Re: Shock Me slow motion

Post by Man of a Thousand Aces »

TheKISSProject7312 wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 8:17 am To my ears, the tempo isn't noticeably slower than the studio cut, rather it's the down tuning that makes it seem more plodding.
I agree that the tempo isn't all that slow...but the plodding drumming is more the problem. No one seems to realize how a little thing like eighth-beats on the hi hat can really liven up the drive of a tune. This guy - like most drummers today - plays quarter beats, where they were originally played as eighths. This affects the perception of a dragging tempo more than the down-tuning. Ace's lackluster singing doesn't help either.
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Re: Shock Me slow motion

Post by Man of a Thousand Aces »

TheKISSProject7312 wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 11:16 am
Man of a Thousand Aces wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 11:14 am
Much Too Soon wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 7:49 am You’d really have to be there to actually hear the sound. Cell phones capture a small %age of sound. Not a good representation at all.

Cell phones don't change the tempo.
Neither did Ace, the tempo is fine. They need to tune the guitars back up and sack the drummer.
I agree that the tempo isn't terribly slow, but I blame the drummer more than the downtuning...and Ace's lack of effort in his singing.
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Re: Shock Me slow motion

Post by Man of a Thousand Aces »

BC Witch wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 9:29 am The tempo is fine, the drummer just doesn't have the right feel to make it swing the way Peter did. It's a real issue with modern drummers trying to play 70s stuff - all of those great 70s rock drummers including Bonham, Bill Ward and Peter had grown up listening to jazz and they played a lot of ghost notes and really swung the rhythms. This guy is just pounding away with no real understanding of the groove of the song.

It's less a matter of swing and more a matter of playing quarter beats on the hi hat, instead of the old school eighth beats. I've been critical of the modern drumming style since Eric Singer took over as their F/T drummer.
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Re: Shock Me slow motion

Post by Tito »

Man of a Thousand Aces wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 11:19 am
TheKISSProject7312 wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 8:17 am To my ears, the tempo isn't noticeably slower than the studio cut, rather it's the down tuning that makes it seem more plodding.
I agree that the tempo isn't all that slow...but the plodding drumming is more the problem. No one seems to realize how a little thing like eighth-beats on the hi hat can really liven up the drive of a tune. This guy - like most drummers today - plays quarter beats, where they were originally played as eighths. This affects the perception of a dragging tempo more than the down-tuning. Ace's lackluster singing doesn't help either.
This, absolutely. Case in point, check out Ace's version of "Street Fighting Man", compare with the Stones original. By playing lazy ass fourths you're taking away something that's essential to the song's character. I fail to see why anyone would prefer that.

I also find it strange how the guitar and bass guys seem to work hard at replicating every nuance of the original recordings right down to vocal harmonies (they did the same with Gene too), but the drummer clearly doesn't have the same attitude.
Last edited by Tito on Tue Sep 28, 2021 11:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Shock Me slow motion

Post by BC Witch »

vinniestkulick wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 9:56 am I'm not sure why most bands default to studio tempos, live, but they do... fans react to energy, and a slight uptick in tempo makes a difference. Some folks complained about Eric Carr's tempos, but I loved the increased energy.
I 100% agree. The Lick It Up tour was one of the most exciting gigs I've ever been to. Absolutely mind blowing to hear the songs played like that.
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Re: Shock Me slow motion

Post by Man of a Thousand Aces »

Tito wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 11:26 am
Man of a Thousand Aces wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 11:19 am
TheKISSProject7312 wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 8:17 am To my ears, the tempo isn't noticeably slower than the studio cut, rather it's the down tuning that makes it seem more plodding.
I agree that the tempo isn't all that slow...but the plodding drumming is more the problem. No one seems to realize how a little thing like eighth-beats on the hi hat can really liven up the drive of a tune. This guy - like most drummers today - plays quarter beats, where they were originally played as eighths. This affects the perception of a dragging tempo more than the down-tuning. Ace's lackluster singing doesn't help either.
This, absolutely. Case in point, check out Ace's version of "Street Fighting Man", compare with the Stones original. By playing lazy ass fourths you're taking away something that's essential to the song's character. I fail to see why anyone would prefer that.
It's subtle enough that I expect most people - while they hear something draggy in the tempos - they haven't enough musical insight to understand why. For me, it's just lazy and it affects the drive of every tune that was not originally played that way. Another good example would be Parasite. I've been critical of this since Singer first joined KISS. I'm not a fan of Eric Carr's take on the klassics, but he at least played eighths on the hi hat.
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Re: Shock Me slow motion

Post by BC Witch »

Man of a Thousand Aces wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 11:22 am
BC Witch wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 9:29 am The tempo is fine, the drummer just doesn't have the right feel to make it swing the way Peter did. It's a real issue with modern drummers trying to play 70s stuff - all of those great 70s rock drummers including Bonham, Bill Ward and Peter had grown up listening to jazz and they played a lot of ghost notes and really swung the rhythms. This guy is just pounding away with no real understanding of the groove of the song.

It's less a matter of swing and more a matter of playing quarter beats on the hi hat, instead of the old school eighth beats. I've been critical of the modern drumming style since Eric Singer took over as their F/T drummer.
I think it's a combination of the lack of 8th notes on the hi-hats, as you say, and the lack of the ghost notes on the snare and kick drum. The chorus, especially, needs those little skips on the snare to really move it.

I'm just listening to the original recording now and the drums are so great. Weirdly, Peter plays 4ths on the hats for the first bar (after the drum intro) then switches to 8ths! Never noticed that before. Anyway, the current guy needs to listen to the record and play something similar to that...
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Re: Shock Me slow motion

Post by Tito »

BC Witch wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 11:35 am Weirdly, Peter plays 4ths on the hats for the first bar (after the drum intro) then switches to 8ths! Never noticed that before.
Classic. If memory serves, he does that on "Cold Gin" too, certainly on the Kramer demo.
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Re: Shock Me slow motion

Post by BC Witch »

Tito wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 11:59 am
BC Witch wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 11:35 am Weirdly, Peter plays 4ths on the hats for the first bar (after the drum intro) then switches to 8ths! Never noticed that before.
Classic. If memory serves, he does that on "Cold Gin" too, certainly on the Kramer demo.
It's little touches like that that really makes songs move. If a drummer did that today the engineer would copy and paste 8ths in...
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Re: Shock Me slow motion

Post by Blackwaterrisin »

jfc... Goin' to Ace and Alice this weekend. I wish Ace was lip-synching to a vocal track like Paul. This is atrocious.
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Re: Shock Me slow motion

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Man of a Thousand Aces wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 11:19 am Ace's lackluster singing doesn't help either...and Ace's lack of effort in his singing.
Horrible. Just horrible.
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Re: Shock Me slow motion

Post by lespaul »

Tito wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 10:10 am I don't think it's a tempo issue as such, but more about Matt Starr's playing fourths on an open hi-hat (instead of eights on a closed one) which takes away from the song's swagger and gives it a heavy, plodding feel.
just like Eric singer
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Re: Shock Me slow motion

Post by Much Too Soon »

Man of a Thousand Aces wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 11:14 am
Much Too Soon wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 7:49 am You’d really have to be there to actually hear the sound. Cell phones capture a small %age of sound. Not a good representation at all.

Cell phones don't change the tempo.
What I said is you don’t really know how this actually sounded to the ears of those in attendance. It may have sounded excellent at that tempo.
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Re: Shock Me slow motion

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redinthesky wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 8:35 am I'll never see or understand the need for three guitars. I don't believe "fill out the sound" is a good reason, that's what a rhythm guitar is for. Three is too much and ridiculous.
Ace probably turns himself down or off apart from when he plays a solo :wink:
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Re: Shock Me slow motion

Post by DemonFilth2001 »

Much Too Soon wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 4:41 pm
What I said is you don’t really know how this actually sounded to the ears of those in attendance. It may have sounded excellent at that tempo.
Lol. Guys like you have been saying since 2009 that Paul sounded fine live and it was the cellphone audio making him sound like a cat going through a wood chipper. Then you said he wasn’t miming the vocals. You just make excuses, stand up for guys who wouldn’t give you the time of day, and shift goalposts on a daily basis. It’s blind cult worship.
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Re: Shock Me slow motion

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Tito wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 11:26 am
Man of a Thousand Aces wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 11:19 am
TheKISSProject7312 wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 8:17 am To my ears, the tempo isn't noticeably slower than the studio cut, rather it's the down tuning that makes it seem more plodding.


the guitar and bass guys seem to work hard at replicating every nuance of the original recordings right down to vocal harmonies (they did the same with Gene too)
This. To the guy above and others that get bent out of shape about 3 guitars… I think it’s great hearing the guitar and background vocal harmonies and nuances. Listen to NY Groove on this tour for example. That hack Richie Scarlet butchered everything with his triplet overplaying and shitty vocals.
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Re: Shock Me slow motion

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DemonFilth2001 wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 1:02 am

And his bandmate is playing the UFO guitar for some reason?
It’s not that guitar. It’s studded, like Gene’s bass/boots/etc.
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Re: Shock Me slow motion

Post by rwgriffith »

Oh, God...that was painful to listen to...
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Re: Shock Me slow motion

Post by Much Too Soon »

DemonFilth2001 wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 5:46 pm
Much Too Soon wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 4:41 pm
What I said is you don’t really know how this actually sounded to the ears of those in attendance. It may have sounded excellent at that tempo.
Lol. Guys like you have been saying since 2009 that Paul sounded fine live and it was the cellphone audio making him sound like a cat going through a wood chipper. Then you said he wasn’t miming the vocals. You just make excuses, stand up for guys who wouldn’t give you the time of day, and shift goalposts on a daily basis. It’s blind cult worship.

How do you know “guys like me have said since 2009”???
You’ve only been here for TWO DAYS. So what banned account did you post under previously. ❌

No … that’s a total fabrication. Cellphone recordings cut out significant sounds. I’m not saying Paul or Ace don’t or do sound like crap. I’m saying the only way to tell is TO BE THERE.

I saw Kiss at Choctaw Oklahoma in I think 2016
Paul sounded good. When I got home and listened to my cellphone recording he sounded like pure nail on the chalkboard.
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Re: Shock Me slow motion

Post by Tito »

DevastatinDave wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 6:25 pm This. To the guy above and others that get bent out of shape about 3 guitars… I think it’s great hearing the guitar and background vocal harmonies and nuances. Listen to NY Groove on this tour for example. That hack Richie Scarlet butchered everything with his triplet overplaying and shitty vocals.
I think you've messed up your quotes there, that's not my words. Richie Scarlet for me over these guys, any day.
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Re: Shock Me slow motion

Post by Tito »

lespaul wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 2:52 pm
Tito wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 10:10 am I don't think it's a tempo issue as such, but more about Matt Starr's playing fourths on an open hi-hat (instead of eights on a closed one) which takes away from the song's swagger and gives it a heavy, plodding feel.
just like Eric singer
Nope.

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Re: Shock Me slow motion

Post by lespaul »

Tito wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 10:10 pm
lespaul wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 2:52 pm
Tito wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 10:10 am I don't think it's a tempo issue as such, but more about Matt Starr's playing fourths on an open hi-hat (instead of eights on a closed one) which takes away from the song's swagger and gives it a heavy, plodding feel.
just like Eric singer
Nope.

ah, no..I meant that Singer comes to mind , with the open hi-hat 4ths style , and just about every drummer playing with ace for the last 30 years .
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Re: Shock Me slow motion

Post by Tito »

lespaul wrote: Wed Sep 29, 2021 12:06 am
Tito wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 10:10 pm
lespaul wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 2:52 pm
Tito wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 10:10 am I don't think it's a tempo issue as such, but more about Matt Starr's playing fourths on an open hi-hat (instead of eights on a closed one) which takes away from the song's swagger and gives it a heavy, plodding feel.
just like Eric singer
Nope.
ah, no..I meant that Singer comes to mind , with the open hi-hat 4ths style , and just about every drummer playing with ace for the last 30 years .
But Eric doesn't actually do that, as you can see in the video. Sure, he doesn't play it as tight as Peter did on the record, but then neither did Peter in concert. But I think with Matt the hi-hat stuff is kind of pronounced, he really ploughs into it.
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Re: Shock Me slow motion

Post by Ratmir »

DemonFilth2001 wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 5:46 pm
Much Too Soon wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 4:41 pm
What I said is you don’t really know how this actually sounded to the ears of those in attendance. It may have sounded excellent at that tempo.
Lol. Guys like you have been saying since 2009 that Paul sounded fine live and it was the cellphone audio making him sound like a cat going through a wood chipper. Then you said he wasn’t miming the vocals. You just make excuses, stand up for guys who wouldn’t give you the time of day, and shift goalposts on a daily basis. It’s blind cult worship.
You joined on September 29, 2021
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Re: Shock Me slow motion

Post by Tito »

Ratmir wrote: Wed Sep 29, 2021 12:47 am
DemonFilth2001 wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 5:46 pm
Much Too Soon wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 4:41 pm
What I said is you don’t really know how this actually sounded to the ears of those in attendance. It may have sounded excellent at that tempo.
Lol. Guys like you have been saying since 2009 that Paul sounded fine live and it was the cellphone audio making him sound like a cat going through a wood chipper. Then you said he wasn’t miming the vocals. You just make excuses, stand up for guys who wouldn’t give you the time of day, and shift goalposts on a daily basis. It’s blind cult worship.
You joined on September 29, 2021
He "joins" every couple of weeks.
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Re: Shock Me slow motion

Post by Stanley! You look so cute »

Much Too Soon wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 7:49 am You’d really have to be there to actually hear the sound. Cell phones capture a small %age of sound. Not a good representation at all.
If you're still using a 1997 Nokia, perhaps. But any reasonably modern phone is perfectly capable of capturing concert audio.
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Re: Shock Me slow motion

Post by DemonFilth2001 »

Exactly. iPhones are broadcast quality.
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Re: Shock Me slow motion

Post by TheKISSProject7312 »

Completely unrelated to the discussion at hand, but it sounds like Paul yells "SHAG ME" in that video and that amuses me.
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Re: Shock Me slow motion

Post by Tito »

TheKISSProject7312 wrote: Wed Sep 29, 2021 2:32 am Completely unrelated to the discussion at hand, but it sounds like Paul yells "SHAG ME" in that video and that amuses me.
"What do you wanna do?" :roll: :lol:
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Re: Shock Me slow motion

Post by Much Too Soon »

DemonFilth2001 wrote: Wed Sep 29, 2021 2:22 am Exactly. iPhones are broadcast quality.
The video portion yes. The audio… no.
The microphone does not pick up over 50% of the sounds entering. Leaving the recording tinny sounding.
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Re: Shock Me slow motion

Post by BullSid »

That's not the way to play Shock Me. That is the main problem.
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Re: Shock Me slow motion

Post by Kiss-Army-Sergeant »

Holy crap! I love Ace, but the sounds bad in that clip.
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Re: Shock Me slow motion

Post by gothunder »

redinthesky wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 8:35 am I'll never see or understand the need for three guitars. I don't believe "fill out the sound" is a good reason, that's what a rhythm guitar is for. Three is too much and ridiculous.
FACT!
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Re: Shock Me slow motion

Post by KISSFACE »

Let's step back and try 2001 with some of that old Alive II punch:

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Re: Shock Me slow motion

Post by battra »

I could only stand about 45 seconds of that video...

I took my headphones off and went back to the Roger Waters record on the turntable.

I'm not knowledgeable enough to tell what what's wrong with that rendition...but I can tell you no one sounded good to my ears.
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Goodwilltowardsall
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Re: Shock Me slow motion

Post by Goodwilltowardsall »

I am just going to opine for a second, I truly believe that Bruce Kulick could do a killer version of Shock Me that could surpass Ace. I know there is a thread that pertains to this but I am too lazy to look 4 it.