KISS' crazy financial past / Doc Hilsen threatened to let Paul go "nuts"?

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KISS' crazy financial past / Doc Hilsen threatened to let Paul go "nuts"?

Post by EasyCatMan »

Excuse me if others have seen this. I had not. This is from 1997

For the whole article:

The Bad Boys Start Watching Their Pockets
Talking Money With KISS

https://www.nytimes.com/1997/02/23/busi ... ckets.html


Some thing I found really interesting:


AUCOIN:

A lot of hands got into Kiss's pockets. There was their first manager, William Aucoin, who by his own admission initially took 25 percent of Kiss's tour recording and merchandising revenues. Managers traditionally get about 15 percent of the gross, after certain expenses are deducted. But in his deal with Kiss, Mr. Aucoin sometimes made far more money than each of the band members did. For example, if they received a $1 million advance for a record that cost $250,000 to produce, Mr. Aucoin would take $250,000, leaving the four partners with $125,000 each. Normally, a manager would get 15 percent after deducting the $250,000, or $112,500, leaving the artists with $159,375 apiece.

For a short period Mr. Aucoin also owned the group's name and 50 percent of its publishing operations, another highly unusual arrangement. Kiss negotiated the repossession of the rights to its name in the late 1970's, about the same time it shaved Mr. Aucoin's fee to 20 percent of gross.

''I recommended that Aucoin was getting too much and should get a new contract or be fired,'' recalled Paul Marshall, who was the group's lawyer in the 1970's and early 1980's and is now a partner at the New York law firm of Solovay, Marshall & Edlin.

Kiss finally dismissed Mr. Aucoin in 1982 in a dispute that ostensibly centered on its appearance.


-----

GLICKMAN/ MARKS

In the $17 million lawsuit, which was eventually settled out of court, Kiss contended that the two managers took commissions on sound and light bill reimbursements to which they were not entitled, costing the group $605,000. The managers said they were entitled to the payments.

The suit also contended that Weidenbaum Ryder received payments from the managers of tax shelters into which the accounting firm funneled Kiss's money, without disclosing the payments to Kiss. Richard Weidenbaum, a founder of Weidenbaum, Ryder, declined to comment, but in the lawsuit, the accountants denied the allegations.

In a recent telephone interview, Mr. Glickman said the real problem lay in the band members' lack of discipline. It was impossible to get any of the four to listen to advice or to stop them from spending money, he said. For example, he said, Mr. Frehley insisted on building a $2 million recording studio at his home, ''even though his home was not zoned for recording,'' and he was never able to use the studio.

The group did get some satisfaction. Mr. Simmons said Kiss collected about $1 million in the out-of-court settlement, while Mr. Glickman said the settlement was exactly $700,000 from all the defendants. Mr. Marks died in the late 1980's.


----------

Doc Hilsen

This is the craziest part of it all. No telliig how much dirt this guy has on him. He ripped them off a ton of money and there's Gene acting like they might still owe him money! DOH



FINALLY, after all that unpleasantness, along came Jesse Hilsen, Mr. Stanley's psychotherapist, who is currently being sought by the United States Attorney's Office, accused of failure to pay child support.

Dr. Hilsen struck most people as an odd choice as manager, given his lack of experience. But by then, Kiss was sick of people who knew the entertainment industry inside out and yet, in its opinion, had failed it. Dr. Hilsen's very innocence struck Mr. Simmons as a breath of fresh air.

''He had no relationships in the music business,'' he said. ''He would ask questions that nobody else would ask, like if you go to a cocktail party and a child comes in and starts asking questions.''

Even today, Mr. Simmons and Mr. Stanley remain curiously protective of their fugitive former manager. But others are less loyal. Dr. Hilsen's former wife Rita says she is still trying to collect an estimated $2 million she says he owes her as a result of a divorce settlement 13 years ago. After he fled, taking the money with him, Mrs. Hilsen said, ''My two younger children and I lived on food stamps and and welfare,'' she recalled. Then, in May 1995, she said, she was evicted from her home on the Upper East Side of Manhattan and has been living in homeless shelters.

Former Kiss employees share her strong reservations about Dr. Hilsen's financial wheeling and dealing. Testifying on behalf of Mrs. Hilsen in family court three years ago, Deborah Weiss-Otterpohl, a bookkeeper with Kiss from 1990 to 1991, said it was never clear what Dr. Hilsen actually did. Nor was it clear what happened to large amounts of money. ''At one point, he was collecting large amounts of cash during the tour and I couldn't account for, like, $1 million,'' Ms. Weiss-Otterpohl testified.

And while Dr. Hilsen's base salary was $150,000, his company received ''total cash payments in 1992 totaling $725,000,'' Ms. Otterpohl said in her testimony, referring to company documents that she was evaluating for the court.

In addition to his management fees, Kiss associates say, Dr. Hilsen was aggressive about collecting payments for his psychiatric treatment of Mr. Stanley, who they say had developed an emotional dependence on the doctor. According to one person familiar with the situation, Dr. Hilsen insisted on being paid in advance of the sessions and threatened to let his patient ''go nuts'' if he wasn't.

For all of Dr. Hilsen's checkered financial history, neither Mr. Simmons nor Mr. Stanley has ever accused him of wrongdoing. And Ms. Gregory, Ms. Weiss-Otterpohl and others see that lack of anger as odd. Indeed, Mr. Simmons said the group might even owe Dr. Hilsen $10,000.


----

and I would imagine Hilsen took this money too:


Former employees recall some financial surprises. Lillian Gregory, who worked for Kiss from 1991 to 1995, said in a telephone interview that during her tenure, one of her assistants opened the office vault expecting to find $150,000 in cash, only to find it empty. On another occasion, she said, she was told by an accounting firm that about $700,000 in cash had somehow ''fallen through the cracks.'' Mr. Simmons declined to comment on the incidents.
Last edited by EasyCatMan on Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: KISS' crazy financial past

Post by BC Witch »

I would imagine that Aucoin Management/Rock Steady was collecting the 25%, not Bill personally. It is a larger % than usual though.
Last edited by BC Witch on Sun Sep 26, 2021 9:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: KISS' crazy financial past

Post by Hotter Than Heck »

This is the kind of stuff I was hoping they'd at least touch on in the A&E documentary when they said they were gonna throw all their dirty laundry into the street. Of course they just meant they were gonna regurgitate all the negative Ace & Pete stuff. Again. I would love to hear Gene & Paul be open & talk about their lack of business acumen but that would spoil their illusion too much I suppose
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Re: KISS' crazy financial past

Post by Tallbear13 »

Management taking more from bands isn't new but yeah 25% is high number but Colonel Tom Parker had 25% with Elvis then it went up had 50% of his income but after Elvis died because of Elvis not signing up to ASCAP he lost out on royalties and Parker lost money , the estate owned 15 million in taxes .

So Bill got the 25% from seeing what others did
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Re: KISS' crazy financial past

Post by Christmas »

25% but AUCOIN financed Kiss from the beginning. Well…

Cheap Tricks manager got 20% until he was let go in the late 90s. So not unheard of.

I think Doc is at 5 or 10% now.
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Re: KISS' crazy financial past

Post by Kissoff »

Interesting.
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Re: KISS' crazy financial past

Post by EasyCatMan »

Hotter Than Heck wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 5:27 pm This is the kind of stuff I was hoping they'd at least touch on in the A&E documentary when they said they were gonna throw all their dirty laundry into the street. Of course they just meant they were gonna regurgitate all the negative Ace & Pete stuff. Again. I would love to hear Gene & Paul be open & talk about their lack of business acumen but that would spoil their illusion too much I suppose

I don't mind Bill getting what he did if he put up $300,000. He deserved it. Maybe not all the double/triple dipping he did ;)


The stuff A&E should have gotten into is Doc Hilsen! That's a doc on its own.

How much power did he really have over Paul?

A guy with absolutely no qualifications is KISS manager and getting paid a fortune in cash.

How many Federal laws did KISS break paying in cash to Doc and so much "off the books"? Over $850,000 unaccounted for which probably went to Doc Hilsen in cash.

And Gene pretending they might still owe him money? He's got so much on them it must be unbelievable. He's got every skeleton on them Paul shared on the couch with him on tape (most likely).

And this. WOW

Dr. Hilsen insisted on being paid in advance of the sessions and threatened to let his patient (Paul Stanley) ''go nuts'' if he wasn't.
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Re: KISS' crazy financial past / Doc Hilsen threatened to let Paul go "nuts"?

Post by misterhand80 »

EasyCatMan has a Sphynx-like posting style.
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Re: KISS' crazy financial past / Doc Hilsen threatened to let Paul go "nuts"?

Post by Frilly Pink »

misterhand80 wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:32 am EasyCatMan has a Sphynx-like posting style.
Controversial 😅
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Re: KISS' crazy financial past / Doc Hilsen threatened to let Paul go "nuts"?

Post by Supertrooper »

Finally a Dr.Hilsen thread! The guy that was only mentioned in Paul's book as his therapist, not a word about the mangager period. He was more interested bad mouthing his dad, Ace, Bill, Peter and Eric Carr amd what not, than the manager who stole his money. Interesting.

I'd be much more interested in a documementary about this guy, than the comming KISS netflix movie.

And without Bill Aucoin the band would probably never have gotten off the ground. Bill Aucoin and Neil Bogart were the ones who took a gamble. Gene, Paul, Peter and Ace were young. They had the least to loose.
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Re: KISS' crazy financial past

Post by Julien »

EasyCatMan wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:25 am The stuff A&E should have gotten into is Doc Hilsen! That's a doc on its own.
There already is one dedicated to HIM.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt3985854/
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Re: KISS' crazy financial past

Post by thegraveyardtramp »

Julien wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 2:02 pm
EasyCatMan wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:25 am The stuff A&E should have gotten into is Doc Hilsen! That's a doc on its own.
There already is one dedicated to HIM.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt3985854/
I need to see this! There's a little compilation of some clips from the show here:

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Re: KISS' crazy financial past / Doc Hilsen threatened to let Paul go "nuts"?

Post by Doose »

The amazing thing is Aucoin STILL ended up broke at the end.
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Re: KISS' crazy financial past / Doc Hilsen threatened to let Paul go "nuts"?

Post by DemonFilth2001 »

Supertrooper wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 1:25 pm Finally a Dr.Hilsen thread! The guy that was only mentioned in Paul's book as his therapist, not a word about the mangager period.
Read it again. He absolutely talks about Hilsen looking at KISS’ finances before they split with Glickman/Marks and coming on as manager and having Paul sign a document saying he was relinquishing him as a therapist and that he wasn’t coerced into making him the manager because of the existing relationship. I don’t recall him saying he vanished with $100,000 KISS money but he did say he was on the run for child support.
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Re: KISS' crazy financial past / Doc Hilsen threatened to let Paul go "nuts"?

Post by Peacebrother »

From 2004- https://www.pallorium.com/ARTICLES/art36.html

From 2006 - https://www.google.com/amp/s/kissnews.w ... nment/amp/

Scroll to the bottom for related articles.
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Re: KISS' crazy financial past / Doc Hilsen threatened to let Paul go "nuts"?

Post by Ratmir »

Where is the Hilsen guy now? He should write a tell all book
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Re: KISS' crazy financial past / Doc Hilsen threatened to let Paul go "nuts"?

Post by ypke »

Peacebrother wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 10:59 pm From 2004- https://www.pallorium.com/ARTICLES/art36.html

From 2006 - https://www.google.com/amp/s/kissnews.w ... nment/amp/

Scroll to the bottom for related articles.
Interesting reads. In the era when money was tight and Kiss wasn't the biggest draw some people still made a lotta money, weird stuff.
Would Hilsen have leverage on Paul? Things Paul doesn't want to get out in the open? O well, this Hilsen guy and him being the manager is one of the weirdest business decisions made by Kiss.
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Re: KISS' crazy financial past

Post by ypke »

thegraveyardtramp wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 5:01 pm
Julien wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 2:02 pm
EasyCatMan wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:25 am The stuff A&E should have gotten into is Doc Hilsen! That's a doc on its own.
There already is one dedicated to HIM.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt3985854/
I need to see this! There's a little compilation of some clips from the show here:

That too was interesting.
Though it bothered me they showed the band putting on make up. I get why from a selling point, but FFS it was the non make up years!
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Re: KISS' crazy financial past / Doc Hilsen threatened to let Paul go "nuts"?

Post by Supertrooper »

DemonFilth2001 wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 10:25 pm
Supertrooper wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 1:25 pm Finally a Dr.Hilsen thread! The guy that was only mentioned in Paul's book as his therapist, not a word about the mangager period.
Read it again. He absolutely talks about Hilsen looking at KISS’ finances before they split with Glickman/Marks and coming on as manager and having Paul sign a document saying he was relinquishing him as a therapist and that he wasn’t coerced into making him the manager because of the existing relationship. I don’t recall him saying he vanished with $100,000 KISS money but he did say he was on the run for child support.
Really? Then I'll stand corrected. I dont remember reading that. I just remember hearing a three sides interview with Chris Lendt. I think he was talking of a picture of a paper Hilsen had made ,that was in the book that declared Paul as cured for mental problems and no longer his patient. I will not read it again. It wasn't that good. I gave away my copy and the end was very boring.
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Re: KISS' crazy financial past

Post by Supertrooper »

Julien wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 2:02 pm
EasyCatMan wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:25 am The stuff A&E should have gotten into is Doc Hilsen! That's a doc on its own.
There already is one dedicated to HIM.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt3985854/
Interesting
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Re: KISS' crazy financial past / Doc Hilsen threatened to let Paul go "nuts"?

Post by Peacebrother »

ypke wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 11:43 pm
Peacebrother wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 10:59 pm From 2004- https://www.pallorium.com/ARTICLES/art36.html

From 2006 - https://www.google.com/amp/s/kissnews.w ... nment/amp/

Scroll to the bottom for related articles.
Interesting reads. In the era when money was tight and Kiss wasn't the biggest draw some people still made a lotta money, weird stuff.
Would Hilsen have leverage on Paul? Things Paul doesn't want to get out in the open? O well, this Hilsen guy and him being the manager is one of the weirdest business decisions made by Kiss.
I agree. I can see Paul wanting him in the Kiss camp but Gene? He's the one that was always so money conscious supposedly. Him agreeing to this is the thing that most baffles me.
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Re: KISS' crazy financial past / Doc Hilsen threatened to let Paul go "nuts"?

Post by Evo999 »

Paul's been pretty open about some of his challenges with mental health, really since his childhood, so getting dependant on a therapist isn't surprising, and has nothing to so with business acumen, intelligence or anything else. I'd say Gene had no choice but to go along with or take the whole band down.
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Re: KISS' crazy financial past / Doc Hilsen threatened to let Paul go "nuts"?

Post by Goodwilltowardsall »

At a minimum, I would think it would be an ethics breach for a therapist to manage his client's business.
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Re: KISS' crazy financial past

Post by Luchino »

Julien wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 2:02 pm
EasyCatMan wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:25 am The stuff A&E should have gotten into is Doc Hilsen! That's a doc on its own.
There already is one dedicated to HIM.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt3985854/
anything revealing there?
I guess Paul wasn't happy with this, and I'm suspicious he has something to do with the clips being down everywhere
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Re: KISS' crazy financial past / Doc Hilsen threatened to let Paul go "nuts"?

Post by peopleselbow »

And this is one of the main reasons I didn't like the A&E doc. They flat out said they managed themselves after Aucoin.

I wonder if Paul used Hilsen so he could write off his psych sessions.

Gene and Paul give the illusion that they were always great businessmen when in fact they were not good until the reunion. They learned from their mistakes and also made some good moves. Of course, Paul's lack of pre nup is another financial blunder.
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Re: KISS' crazy financial past

Post by Zorro8 »

EasyCatMan wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:25 am
Hotter Than Heck wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 5:27 pm This is the kind of stuff I was hoping they'd at least touch on in the A&E documentary when they said they were gonna throw all their dirty laundry into the street. Of course they just meant they were gonna regurgitate all the negative Ace & Pete stuff. Again. I would love to hear Gene & Paul be open & talk about their lack of business acumen but that would spoil their illusion too much I suppose

I don't mind Bill getting what he did if he put up $300,000. He deserved it. Maybe not all the double/triple dipping he did ;)


The stuff A&E should have gotten into is Doc Hilsen! That's a doc on its own.

How much power did he really have over Paul?

A guy with absolutely no qualifications is KISS manager and getting paid a fortune in cash.

How many Federal laws did KISS break paying in cash to Doc and so much "off the books"? Over $850,000 unaccounted for which probably went to Doc Hilsen in cash.

And Gene pretending they might still owe him money? He's got so much on them it must be unbelievable. He's got every skeleton on them Paul shared on the couch with him on tape (most likely).

And this. WOW

Dr. Hilsen insisted on being paid in advance of the sessions and threatened to let his patient (Paul Stanley) ''go nuts'' if he wasn't.
So they didn't pay him then?
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Re: KISS' crazy financial past / Doc Hilsen threatened to let Paul go "nuts"?

Post by Doose »

I know Ace and Peter like to say everyone screwed them, but a lot of people screwed Gene and Paul too. It's what you LEARN from those mistakes that defines how successful you are.
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Re: KISS' crazy financial past / Doc Hilsen threatened to let Paul go "nuts"?

Post by DonnaDixon »

Doose wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 2:54 pm I know Ace and Peter like to say everyone screwed them, but a lot of people screwed Gene and Paul too. It's what you LEARN from those mistakes that defines how successful you are.
In small part, perhaps.
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Re: KISS' crazy financial past

Post by Vinniefan123 »

Zorro8 wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 1:21 pm
EasyCatMan wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:25 am
Hotter Than Heck wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 5:27 pm This is the kind of stuff I was hoping they'd at least touch on in the A&E documentary when they said they were gonna throw all their dirty laundry into the street. Of course they just meant they were gonna regurgitate all the negative Ace & Pete stuff. Again. I would love to hear Gene & Paul be open & talk about their lack of business acumen but that would spoil their illusion too much I suppose

I don't mind Bill getting what he did if he put up $300,000. He deserved it. Maybe not all the double/triple dipping he did ;)


The stuff A&E should have gotten into is Doc Hilsen! That's a doc on its own.

How much power did he really have over Paul?

A guy with absolutely no qualifications is KISS manager and getting paid a fortune in cash.

How many Federal laws did KISS break paying in cash to Doc and so much "off the books"? Over $850,000 unaccounted for which probably went to Doc Hilsen in cash.

And Gene pretending they might still owe him money? He's got so much on them it must be unbelievable. He's got every skeleton on them Paul shared on the couch with him on tape (most likely).

And this. WOW

Dr. Hilsen insisted on being paid in advance of the sessions and threatened to let his patient (Paul Stanley) ''go nuts'' if he wasn't.
So they didn't pay him then?
Lol Apparently not!