KISS was supposed to do 5 nights at Madison Square Garden, New York City in Dynasty tour

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Re: KISS was supposed to do 5 nights at Madison Square Garden, New York City in Dynasty tour

Post by johnsaidwhat »

destroyerrnro wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:54 am
johnsaidwhat wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 3:44 pm Opening nights in Lakeland FL were supposed to be June 14th and 15th.
The week of the show it was condensed to just June 15th.
You are correct my friend. I had tickets for both nights but if my aging memory is correct, there was a rumor that Peter had cut his hand on a mirror and that was the reason for canceling the first night.
Pretty cool that we witnessed the very first time Gene flew and Ace's one use of the John Robison laser guitar.
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Re: KISS was supposed to do 5 nights at Madison Square Garden, New York City in Dynasty tour

Post by jetcity »

jkiss wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:13 am

Despite major US backlash, "DYNASTY" sold very well, but just imagine had they come-out with what everyone was 'expecting them' to come-out with. There was a real buzz, a lot of fans were looking forward to their 1979 album. I was. I knew lots of fans that were, just like myself & in multiple US States. It's not like I existed in some weird bubble. I was a very social person, perhaps too social, but anyway.

KISS was big, in the area of 20-million 'albums' (shipped) in the US alone by that point & not even counting singles, either. 💡

Had they done what we expected them to do (being 'the militant' [teenage] fanbase that we were & I do agree with Bob Ezrin's observation), KISS just might have had themselves even 'a Number 1' album. Five nights @ the Garden, easy. Multiple dates in all major American cities (good chance), perhaps even in Canada as well. Fans will find the money, if you give them something 'they wanted'.

Economical forecasts is excuses & they had their excuse ready, even before going-out on the road (RE: Paul in "Billboard Magazine", circa 1979). Again, because they full-well knew that what they were attempting was either going to be huge or it was going to look more like a train-wreck.

🤔
Comments like "Just might have had themselves even 'a Number 1' album...." or "Five nights @ the Garden, easy..." have me reaching for Hitchens's Razor.

The equation that resulted in the Dynasty Tour is a complicated one, which certainly DID include egos large enough to create a massive overreach in the scope of what they thought they could do with this tour. But I'd cordially push back on the idea that the economic factors are an empty excuse. This point isn't anecdotal. 1978 was the first billion-dollar year for the music industry. That number fell 12% in 1979. It's easy to see why: Consumer Price Index (a measure of how much things cost) rose by over 11%, which was only the second double-digit increase in prices in the previous 30 years. GDP fell by a whopping 42%. Those two factors combined to mean people had a lot less disposable income to waste on non-essential things like concert tickets, not just KISS concert tickets.

That's not my attempt to dismiss the band/management's overreach, but I don't see any evidence that would make me conclude that a hard rock album like RARO would have resulted in the type of five-nights-at-MSG-Number-1-album success you envision, at least not within the context of KISS's place in the 1979 world.
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Re: KISS was supposed to do 5 nights at Madison Square Garden, New York City in Dynasty tour

Post by kisshall2 »

jkiss wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 6:02 am Those arena seats wouldn't have been easily available for all those 'KISS kids' parents to snap-up & had the teenage boys (that now didn't want them) wanted them. It's very simple. The 'KISS kids' were always around & all-the-way back to the "ALIVE!" tour. I saw them, but in smaller pockets.

I saw them at the shows & I even knew many of them because I babysat them, myself. The 'KISS kids' salvaged/saved the "DYNASTY" tour.


🥱
I was 19 during this tour. KISS fan since 1975. had never sat further than two rows back for KISS or any other band I wanted to see. We camped out for days.

Those kids never showed up with parents in any large numbers before the Dynasty tour. I believe they were about 25% responsible for the failure of the tour in my opinion. The economy, costumes and IWMFLY made up the other 75%.

I was a grown man with no interest in anything a child was interested in. There were millions just like me.
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Re: KISS was supposed to do 5 nights at Madison Square Garden, New York City in Dynasty tour

Post by j2m1979 »

and they called in Cheap Trick to help fill Detroit's mini-dome...
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Re: KISS was supposed to do 5 nights at Madison Square Garden, New York City in Dynasty tour

Post by jkiss »

kisshall2 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 10:57 am
jkiss wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 6:02 am Those arena seats wouldn't have been easily available for all those 'KISS kids' parents to snap-up & had the teenage boys (that now didn't want them) wanted them. It's very simple. The 'KISS kids' were always around & all-the-way back to the "ALIVE!" tour. I saw them, but in smaller pockets.

I saw them at the shows & I even knew many of them because I babysat them, myself. The 'KISS kids' salvaged/saved the "DYNASTY" tour.


🥱
I was 19 during this tour. KISS fan since 1975. had never sat further than two rows back for KISS or any other band I wanted to see. We camped out for days.

Those kids never showed up with parents in any large numbers before the Dynasty tour. I believe they were about 25% responsible for the failure of the tour in my opinion. The economy, costumes and IWMFLY made up the other 75%.

I was a grown man with no interest in anything a child was interested in. There were millions just like me.
Yes, I agree, the 'KISS kids' never showed-up in droves/large nos. before "DYNASTY". Nonetheless, they were certainly a fixture in the audience right from the first time I saw KISS live, in 1975. And like I stated, in smaller numbers or pockets.

Who first informed me about KISS was a 5-year old boy I was babysitting, in 1975.

🤔
Last edited by jkiss on Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: KISS was supposed to do 5 nights at Madison Square Garden, New York City in Dynasty tour

Post by southernkiss »

kisshall2 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 10:57 am
jkiss wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 6:02 am Those arena seats wouldn't have been easily available for all those 'KISS kids' parents to snap-up & had the teenage boys (that now didn't want them) wanted them. It's very simple. The 'KISS kids' were always around & all-the-way back to the "ALIVE!" tour. I saw them, but in smaller pockets.

I saw them at the shows & I even knew many of them because I babysat them, myself. The 'KISS kids' salvaged/saved the "DYNASTY" tour.


🥱
I was 19 during this tour. KISS fan since 1975. had never sat further than two rows back for KISS or any other band I wanted to see. We camped out for days.

Those kids never showed up with parents in any large numbers before the Dynasty tour. I believe they were about 25% responsible for the failure of the tour in my opinion. The economy, costumes and IWMFLY made up the other 75%.

I was a grown man with no interest in anything a child was interested in. There were millions just like me.
It would seem that a child’s interest would increase ticket sales because a child cannot go to a show alone. The parent has to buy tickets for both the parent and the child. Had KISS not appealed to so many young kids during the Dynasty Tour, ticket sales would have probably been even lower.
Last edited by southernkiss on Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: KISS was supposed to do 5 nights at Madison Square Garden, New York City in Dynasty tour

Post by jkiss »

.
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Re: KISS was supposed to do 5 nights at Madison Square Garden, New York City in Dynasty tour

Post by destroyerrnro »

johnsaidwhat wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 9:43 am
destroyerrnro wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:54 am
johnsaidwhat wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 3:44 pm Opening nights in Lakeland FL were supposed to be June 14th and 15th.
The week of the show it was condensed to just June 15th.
You are correct my friend. I had tickets for both nights but if my aging memory is correct, there was a rumor that Peter had cut his hand on a mirror and that was the reason for canceling the first night.
Pretty cool that we witnessed the very first time Gene flew and Ace's one use of the John Robison laser guitar.
Very cool. I imagine you also lived in the Sunshine State at the time. I lived in Port Richey so I had the good fortune of time, place and circumstance to attend the first show of the tour. When the doors of the the Civic Center opened, I ran down to the front. I remember thinking "where are the speakers, this can't be the entire stage?" I had no real point of reference to the scope of the stage front to back. I was thinking the wall of speakers I had grown to associate with Kiss, would somehow rise at some point in the show. During the ride home my friends, who had never seen Kiss, discussed how underwhelmed they were seeing the stage. Their point of reference was the Alive II gatefold. It's a huge stretch, but I wonder if that perception ended up hindering some ticket sales moving forward?
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Re: KISS was supposed to do 5 nights at Madison Square Garden, New York City in Dynasty tour

Post by southernkiss »

Tommyr wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 7:05 am
TwistedTaste wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 12:19 pm
IWMFLY wasn’t a massive hit. And it was probably one of the biggest reasons they couldn’t do more than 2 shows at the garden. IWMFLY made the band totally uncool at the time (when they were already on thin ice after the crappy solo albums (other than Ace) & KMTPOTP
I totally agree. "I was made..." was not as big a hit here as say maybe other countries. It turned a TON of us fans off. It made me sick.
On the DRC commentary track, Ace said that they got hate mail after IWMFLY was released.
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Re: KISS was supposed to do 5 nights at Madison Square Garden, New York City in Dynasty tour

Post by kevsdad »

Wasn’t the Dynasty tour brutally long as well? Love Gun tour was like June to mid September? Dynasty tour was June to December. In the 70s that had to be the longest stretch on the road.
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Re: KISS was supposed to do 5 nights at Madison Square Garden, New York City in Dynasty tour

Post by zach2442 »

Kiss designed the stage for people to watch from the back of the stage- something they never did before.

When it comes down to it, the band and management truly believed they would sell out every seat at MSG, 5 nights in '79- a MUCH, MUCH bigger feat than 3 nights in December of '77 when tickets behind the stage weren't available.

The economics of the Dynasty tour were based on grand delusions.
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Re: KISS was supposed to do 5 nights at Madison Square Garden, New York City in Dynasty tour

Post by Coventry1973 »

destroyerrnro wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 7:00 pm
johnsaidwhat wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 9:43 am
destroyerrnro wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:54 am
johnsaidwhat wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 3:44 pm Opening nights in Lakeland FL were supposed to be June 14th and 15th.
The week of the show it was condensed to just June 15th.
You are correct my friend. I had tickets for both nights but if my aging memory is correct, there was a rumor that Peter had cut his hand on a mirror and that was the reason for canceling the first night.
Pretty cool that we witnessed the very first time Gene flew and Ace's one use of the John Robison laser guitar.
Very cool. I imagine you also lived in the Sunshine State at the time. I lived in Port Richey so I had the good fortune of time, place and circumstance to attend the first show of the tour. When the doors of the the Civic Center opened, I ran down to the front. I remember thinking "where are the speakers, this can't be the entire stage?" I had no real point of reference to the scope of the stage front to back. I was thinking the wall of speakers I had grown to associate with Kiss, would somehow rise at some point in the show. During the ride home my friends, who had never seen Kiss, discussed how underwhelmed they were seeing the stage. Their point of reference was the Alive II gatefold. It's a huge stretch, but I wonder if that perception ended up hindering some ticket sales moving forward?
I doubt that. You have to remember that there was no internet. No one was going to go to the show and then have it on Youtube and that would scare away the possibility of ticket sales if what they saw they didn't like. They were on tour at least a month before anything started showing up in the magazines, and all I remember was the photos from Hit Parader with Ace on the cover, with the new KISS stage show.
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Re: KISS was supposed to do 5 nights at Madison Square Garden, New York City in Dynasty tour

Post by jkiss »

jetcity wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 10:16 am
jkiss wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:13 am

Despite major US backlash, "DYNASTY" sold very well, but just imagine had they come-out with what everyone was 'expecting them' to come-out with. There was a real buzz, a lot of fans were looking forward to their 1979 album. I was. I knew lots of fans that were, just like myself & in multiple US States. It's not like I existed in some weird bubble. I was a very social person, perhaps too social, but anyway.

KISS was big, in the area of 20-million 'albums' (shipped) in the US alone by that point & not even counting singles, either. 💡

Had they done what we expected them to do (being 'the militant' [teenage] fanbase that we were & I do agree with Bob Ezrin's observation), KISS just might have had themselves even 'a Number 1' album. Five nights @ the Garden, easy. Multiple dates in all major American cities (good chance), perhaps even in Canada as well. Fans will find the money, if you give them something 'they wanted'.

Economical forecasts is excuses & they had their excuse ready, even before going-out on the road (RE: Paul in "Billboard Magazine", circa 1979). Again, because they full-well knew that what they were attempting was either going to be huge or it was going to look more like a train-wreck.

🤔
Comments like "Just might have had themselves even 'a Number 1' album...." or "Five nights @ the Garden, easy..." have me reaching for Hitchens's Razor.

The equation that resulted in the Dynasty Tour is a complicated one, which certainly DID include egos large enough to create a massive overreach in the scope of what they thought they could do with this tour. But I'd cordially push back on the idea that the economic factors are an empty excuse. This point isn't anecdotal. 1978 was the first billion-dollar year for the music industry. That number fell 12% in 1979. It's easy to see why: Consumer Price Index (a measure of how much things cost) rose by over 11%, which was only the second double-digit increase in prices in the previous 30 years. GDP fell by a whopping 42%. Those two factors combined to mean people had a lot less disposable income to waste on non-essential things like concert tickets, not just KISS concert tickets.

That's not my attempt to dismiss the band/management's overreach, but I don't see any evidence that would make me conclude that a hard rock album like RARO would have resulted in the type of five-nights-at-MSG-Number-1-album success you envision, at least not within the context of KISS's place in the 1979 world.
So basically, five nights @ the Garden wasn't doable. People didn't have the money or wanted to part with it if they did (I always found the $ myself, but I also didn't pay rent, etc). And I was mistaken about the "Billboard" article, they were already on the road.

And I can't re-find the one where he says they know it's not the best time to go out, but we are going. This seems to be a real big problem with Paul; he just wants to be on the road, no matter what. And Peter just couldn't keep-up. He needed to go to rehab.

😓
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Re: KISS was supposed to do 5 nights at Madison Square Garden, New York City in Dynasty tour

Post by BC Witch »

johnsaidwhat wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 9:43 am
destroyerrnro wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:54 am
johnsaidwhat wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 3:44 pm Opening nights in Lakeland FL were supposed to be June 14th and 15th.
The week of the show it was condensed to just June 15th.
You are correct my friend. I had tickets for both nights but if my aging memory is correct, there was a rumor that Peter had cut his hand on a mirror and that was the reason for canceling the first night.
Pretty cool that we witnessed the very first time Gene flew and Ace's one use of the John Robison laser guitar.
Wha?! Ace actually used the laser guitar for a show? What was it like?
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Re: KISS was supposed to do 5 nights at Madison Square Garden, New York City in Dynasty tour

Post by jkiss »

jetcity wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 10:16 am
Comments like "Just might have had themselves even 'a Number 1' album...." or "Five nights @ the Garden, easy..." have me reaching for Hitchens's Razor.
I wanted KISS to have a Number 1, but in retrospect we all know that was impossible because they were totally dysfunctional. And even if they did, whatever Number 1 album they had wouldn't have had Peter even playing on it.

They needed to stand-up to Neil like Donna did, even "The Queen of Disco" knew she had to get away from all that. She saw it was all going to go down & drag down anyone that still had a part in it.

😕
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Re: KISS was supposed to do 5 nights at Madison Square Garden, New York City in Dynasty tour

Post by redinthesky »

Still don't know why some are blaming, or partially blaming "the economy" for the Dynasty tour not being as big as hoped. That had nothing to do with it. Plenty of big acts had huge tours and did just fine. The Bee Gees played five nights at MSG, sold them all out, and had a higher best-seat price ($15). The Who played five nights. Rod played four nights. Other acts did two or three nights, and they all had good tours. Kiss just simply turned off too many fans with the sound, the look, and the kids, simple as that. Not too many "rockers" at the high school are going to like a band with a 10-year old fan base, a disco song, dolls and a colorforms set.
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Re: KISS was supposed to do 5 nights at Madison Square Garden, New York City in Dynasty tour

Post by jkiss »

redinthesky wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:26 pm Still don't know why some are blaming, or partially blaming "the economy" for the Dynasty tour not being as big as hoped. That had nothing to do with it. Plenty of big acts had huge tours and did just fine. The Bee Gees played five nights at MSG, sold them all out, and had a higher best-seat price ($15). The Who played five nights. Rod played four nights. Other acts did two or three nights, and they all had good tours. Kiss just simply turned off too many fans with the sound, the look, and the kids, simple as that. Not too many "rockers" at the high school are going to like a band with a 10-year old fan base, a disco song, dolls and a colorforms set.
I really think the fans would've been there, had they delivered the goods, but they didn't. They decided to hang themselves, instead. And not only that, turn everything into garbage.

I wish both P&G could've just come to my school & see for themselves what kind of total shitstorm they created. "DYNASTY" was the lowest point my own fandom. I had listen to all that crap, not only for months, but for years.

The only time in 'my entire life' did I see ex-fans try to 'cancel' a band/artist, relentlessly. And by seriously bullying, everyone else.

😣
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Re: KISS was supposed to do 5 nights at Madison Square Garden, New York City in Dynasty tour

Post by destroyerrnro »

Coventry1973 wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:31 am
destroyerrnro wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 7:00 pm
johnsaidwhat wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 9:43 am
destroyerrnro wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:54 am

You are correct my friend. I had tickets for both nights but if my aging memory is correct, there was a rumor that Peter had cut his hand on a mirror and that was the reason for canceling the first night.
Pretty cool that we witnessed the very first time Gene flew and Ace's one use of the John Robison laser guitar.
Very cool. I imagine you also lived in the Sunshine State at the time. I lived in Port Richey so I had the good fortune of time, place and circumstance to attend the first show of the tour. When the doors of the the Civic Center opened, I ran down to the front. I remember thinking "where are the speakers, this can't be the entire stage?" I had no real point of reference to the scope of the stage front to back. I was thinking the wall of speakers I had grown to associate with Kiss, would somehow rise at some point in the show. During the ride home my friends, who had never seen Kiss, discussed how underwhelmed they were seeing the stage. Their point of reference was the Alive II gatefold. It's a huge stretch, but I wonder if that perception ended up hindering some ticket sales moving forward?
I doubt that. You have to remember that there was no internet. No one was going to go to the show and then have it on Youtube and that would scare away the possibility of ticket sales if what they saw they didn't like. They were on tour at least a month before anything started showing up in the magazines, and all I remember was the photos from Hit Parader with Ace on the cover, with the new KISS stage show.
Word of mouth is a powerful thing my friend and should never be underestimated. But as I said, it’s a stretch.
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Re: KISS was supposed to do 5 nights at Madison Square Garden, New York City in Dynasty tour

Post by turbodrive »

redinthesky wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:26 pm Not too many "rockers" at the high school are going to like a band with a 10-year old fan base, a disco song, dolls and a colorforms set.
Spot-on....it was this. And that's coming from someone who was in high school at the time, like probably a lot here.
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Re: KISS was supposed to do 5 nights at Madison Square Garden, New York City in Dynasty tour

Post by jkiss »

turbodrive wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:54 pm
redinthesky wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:26 pm Not too many "rockers" at the high school are going to like a band with a 10-year old fan base, a disco song, dolls and a colorforms set.
Spot-on....it was this. And that's coming from someone who was in high school at the time, like probably a lot here.
Eric Singer felt the same, but more over 'KISS kids' ruining his Fonzerillie cool. And from his own personal account he ditched, after seeing "Destroyer" in Cleveland.

😐

I'd say at least a dozen times, I had to get after teenage boys/fans to even 'be nice' to the 'KISS kids'. And before "DYNASTY".

🤨
Last edited by jkiss on Tue Jul 27, 2021 6:24 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: KISS was supposed to do 5 nights at Madison Square Garden, New York City in Dynasty tour

Post by wayfarer »

zach2442 wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:22 am Kiss designed the stage for people to watch from the back of the stage- something they never did before.

When it comes down to it, the band and management truly believed they would sell out every seat at MSG, 5 nights in '79- a MUCH, MUCH bigger feat than 3 nights in December of '77 when tickets behind the stage weren't available.

The economics of the Dynasty tour were based on grand delusions.
Yes! It was an attempt at KISS-In The Round...I'm surprised KISS has never explored that concept...

Some of the DYNASTY stage photos you can clearly see it was designed for this...🤘
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Re: KISS was supposed to do 5 nights at Madison Square Garden, New York City in Dynasty tour

Post by jkiss »

BC Witch wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 6:24 am
I'm also guessing that the audience was mainly working class people who didn't have a lot of money to blow on seeing KISS three days in a row! I don't know if that's accurate or not.
I think with most normal fans (not excessive/super ones), one night would've been more than sufficient. I don't feel it was all that common for most to have this idea they should go to every single show booked, in-a-row. And that is something I'd say was more common much later or by the reunion.

And every city is different, NYC isn't the same as Houston, nor is either of them the same as San Francisco. You really need to live in particular city for awhile before you get the actual feel n' flow of it. And one city might be more so blue-collar, but in another white-collar is predominate.

🤔
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Re: KISS was supposed to do 5 nights at Madison Square Garden, New York City in Dynasty tour

Post by BeholderFan »

Tommyr wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 7:05 am
TwistedTaste wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 12:19 pm
IWMFLY wasn’t a massive hit. And it was probably one of the biggest reasons they couldn’t do more than 2 shows at the garden. IWMFLY made the band totally uncool at the time (when they were already on thin ice after the crappy solo albums (other than Ace) & KMTPOTP
I totally agree. "I was made..." was not as big a hit here as say maybe other countries. It turned a TON of us fans off. It made me sick.
I was about 11 when Dynasty came out. I hated " I was made..." then and I hate it now.
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Re: KISS was supposed to do 5 nights at Madison Square Garden, New York City in Dynasty tour

Post by BeholderFan »

turbodrive wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:54 pm
redinthesky wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:26 pm Not too many "rockers" at the high school are going to like a band with a 10-year old fan base, a disco song, dolls and a colorforms set.
Spot-on....it was this. And that's coming from someone who was in high school at the time, like probably a lot here.
I had just started 6th grade when the Dynasty Tour started. I got teased mercilessly and I was 11, turning 12 that Dec of 1979. Many were fans of Meatloaf and Led Zeppelin. During the 80s, going into my junior high and high school years, when Unmasked, the Elder and during the non-makeup years, I didn't admit I liked KISS. That is how badly I was teased.
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Re: KISS was supposed to do 5 nights at Madison Square Garden, New York City in Dynasty tour

Post by caligari »

Grand Classic wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 4:56 pm
jetcity wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 1:38 pm
TwistedTaste wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 12:19 pm
jetcity wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:52 am

Whose hubris?

Paul and Gene's? Or was it Bill Aucoin's? Or the folks at Glickman-Marks (Howard Marks, Chris Lendt, Ken Anderson)'? Tour manager Fritz Postlethwaite? Or what about the people (Jeff Franklin, Wally Meyrowitz) at KISS's booking agency ATI? Or how about Ron Delsener, the promoter of all five dates MSG reserved for shows (say nothing of the promoters of multiple-show bookings in Lakeland, Detroit, Pittsburgh, Atlanta, Savannah, Providence, Philly and Minneapolis)?

ALL of these people, and more, were involved in booking these dates.

Bear in mind, KISS was coming off two straight years of (almost) entirely sold out arena shows, and had a massive smash with I Was Made. And they did not have the blessing of hindsight to know that outside factors such as a steep decline in the Consumer Price Index (an indicator of the amount of disposable income and willingness to spend it) would take root in the U.S. in 1979 and impact the entertainment industry negatively.

This isn't an equation that relies upon just Gene Simmons's ego.
IWMFLY wasn’t a massive hit. And it was probably one of the biggest reasons they couldn’t do more than 2 shows at the garden. IWMFLY made the band totally uncool at the time (when they were already on thin ice after the crappy solo albums (other than Ace) & KMTPOTP
Dynasty was out for just three weeks (and was selling briskly) by the time of the first show on June 14. And yet already ticket sales had forced cancellations (June 14 & 15 were combined into a single gig). Doesn't this suggest to us that the downturn in interest was already afoot before IWMFLY-aversion could play a big role?
Perhaps 3 weeks was enough for all the KISS fans who bought it expecting a hard rock record and were disgusted to hear do do do disco. We do know that Dynasty caused a fan exodus. They were like this essentially with KISS from this point on when it comes to albums or tours:

Image
EXACTLY
I Lived It.

And Remember:

The “IWMFLY” single was Pre-Released BEFORE
“Dynasty” came out.
A lot of fans didn’t even BUY THE ALBUM
BECAUSE THEY ALREADY HEARD THE FIRST SINGLE and punched out of the KISS Army for good.
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Re: KISS was supposed to do 5 nights at Madison Square Garden, New York City in Dynasty tour

Post by caligari »

Coventry1973 wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:31 am
destroyerrnro wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 7:00 pm
johnsaidwhat wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 9:43 am
destroyerrnro wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:54 am

You are correct my friend. I had tickets for both nights but if my aging memory is correct, there was a rumor that Peter had cut his hand on a mirror and that was the reason for canceling the first night.
Pretty cool that we witnessed the very first time Gene flew and Ace's one use of the John Robison laser guitar.
Very cool. I imagine you also lived in the Sunshine State at the time. I lived in Port Richey so I had the good fortune of time, place and circumstance to attend the first show of the tour. When the doors of the the Civic Center opened, I ran down to the front. I remember thinking "where are the speakers, this can't be the entire stage?" I had no real point of reference to the scope of the stage front to back. I was thinking the wall of speakers I had grown to associate with Kiss, would somehow rise at some point in the show. During the ride home my friends, who had never seen Kiss, discussed how underwhelmed they were seeing the stage. Their point of reference was the Alive II gatefold. It's a huge stretch, but I wonder if that perception ended up hindering some ticket sales moving forward?
I doubt that. You have to remember that there was no internet. No one was going to go to the show and then have it on Youtube and that would scare away the possibility of ticket sales if what they saw they didn't like. They were on tour at least a month before anything started showing up in the magazines, and all I remember was the photos from Hit Parader with Ace on the cover, with the new KISS stage show.
Doubt Nothing.

No internet but people TALKED in person and on phone and “my cousin in Florida SAW them and he said…”,
and people actually wrote LETERS and had PEN PALS.
I was outside MSG in NYC for DYNASTY and remember some older teens who apparently had already seen the show were talking the show down to some other kids standing there: “It’s not as good as last time around.”

KISS was my favorite band,
but I had limited income.
I heard DYNASTY at my friends house,
AND I HAD NO DESIRE TO RUN OUT AND GET IT.
I taped his on a cassette and did not get a REAL LP copy until December when I asked for it as a after thought birthday present.

What were MY thoughts
DURING THE SHOW…
WHILE I WAS THERE
at
MADISON SQUARE GARDEN
at 14 yrs old, about to start High School in a few months…?

I had seen KISS once before on the ALIVE II Tour,
and I had seen TED NUGENT go great gonzo on the WEEKEND WARRIORS Tour so,
this DYNASTY show was my 3rd concert Ever…

💊I thought the SLOW build of the beginning of the show and eventually starting with KOTKTW
was a DRASTIC difference from the fast paced BANG! HERE’s KISS! opening w/ISYL And A Glorious Stage With Them Descending To The Floor From The Top Of The Amps on the Love Gun/Alive II Tour
… no Sir, AND I DIDN’T LIKE IT.
A more exciting stage Entrance to a more upbeat Song would have been great…
AND SAVE the way they chose to open the show, and rise up from inside the amps FOR THE ENCORES

💊When ONLY Peter went up in the air on his platform at the end of BLACK DIAMOND and not the entire band like the previous tour: LAME

💊They PLAYED LESS SONGS
and the SOLOS and Paul’s BS stage RAPS got LONGER

💊 Most of the songs in the set were the softer ones,
from old and new albums.
CHRISTINE 16, IWMFLY, NEW YORK GROOVE, BETH.
They didn’t throw in a PARASITE, TAKE ME, ROCKET RIDE or SHE.
The evening sounded like “KISS-LITE”

💊 As mentioned it took the press a while to catch up back then, at MSG was my first time REALLY seeing the new costumes.
Prior to the show there was some super quick clips on TV (I saw this on a B&W set, not color) as part of a commercial for DYNASTY LP and the MSG show.
And a couple days before, in the Sunday Edition of the New York Daily News there was a black and white picture of the band onstage from the photo pit & you could not make much out from it.
* Seeing them IN COLOR LIVE…
It reminded me of Circus Clowns or Vegas Show Girls.

💊 Saw KISS again - with a different set of friends - in September at NEW HAVEN COLISEUM - 1 day before my First Day At High School As A Freshman.
JUDAS PRIEST opened, playing basically their UNLEASHED IN THE EAST album set - really gave KISS a run for the money and I bought UNLEASHED IN THE EAST before Christmas of that year.
One of my buddies made the MISTAKE of wearing his KISS Concert T Shirt to his 1st day as a freshman in
High School…
I can’t help but think that his humiliation/initiations by some Seniors that day at lunch time was only made worse because of his KISS Shirt which invited the shouting of “KISS SUCKS!”, “HE LIKES FUCKIN’ KISS! WHAT A BABY!”, “KISS IS GAY! WAS PAUL STANLEY MADE FOR LOVIN’ YOU?”, etc..
HE NEVER WORE THE SHIRT AGAIN.
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Re: KISS was supposed to do 5 nights at Madison Square Garden, New York City in Dynasty tour

Post by jkiss »

caligari wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:49 pm One of my buddies made the MISTAKE of wearing his KISS Concert T Shirt to his 1st day as a freshman in
High School…
I can’t help but think that his humiliation/initiations by some Seniors that day at lunch time was only made worse because of his KISS Shirt which invited the shouting of “KISS SUCKS!”, “HE LIKES FUCKIN’ KISS! WHAT A BABY!”, “KISS IS GAY! WAS PAUL STANLEY MADE FOR LOVIN’ YOU?”, etc..
HE NEVER WORE THE SHIRT AGAIN.
👍🏻 Thank-you, I was beginning to think I was going insane or in some weird "Twilight Zone". 🤪
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Re: KISS was supposed to do 5 nights at Madison Square Garden, New York City in Dynasty tour

Post by Choose_One »

KISS oversaturated the market as we all know in the 70's. Most bands released an album a year, but between 1976-1978 KISS released 3 studio albums, 1 live double album, and 4 solo albums, and also a Greatest Hits. Not forgetting the movie.
The Dynasty album and tour came too soon, and what with the change of direction (IWMFLY), people just had enough.
Shame they didn't learn their lesson around the reunion, when they played way too many shows, and came back again too soon (Psycho Circus)
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Re: KISS was supposed to do 5 nights at Madison Square Garden, New York City in Dynasty tour

Post by Coventry1973 »

caligari wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:49 pm
Coventry1973 wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:31 am
destroyerrnro wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 7:00 pm
johnsaidwhat wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 9:43 am

Pretty cool that we witnessed the very first time Gene flew and Ace's one use of the John Robison laser guitar.
Very cool. I imagine you also lived in the Sunshine State at the time. I lived in Port Richey so I had the good fortune of time, place and circumstance to attend the first show of the tour. When the doors of the the Civic Center opened, I ran down to the front. I remember thinking "where are the speakers, this can't be the entire stage?" I had no real point of reference to the scope of the stage front to back. I was thinking the wall of speakers I had grown to associate with Kiss, would somehow rise at some point in the show. During the ride home my friends, who had never seen Kiss, discussed how underwhelmed they were seeing the stage. Their point of reference was the Alive II gatefold. It's a huge stretch, but I wonder if that perception ended up hindering some ticket sales moving forward?
I doubt that. You have to remember that there was no internet. No one was going to go to the show and then have it on Youtube and that would scare away the possibility of ticket sales if what they saw they didn't like. They were on tour at least a month before anything started showing up in the magazines, and all I remember was the photos from Hit Parader with Ace on the cover, with the new KISS stage show.
Doubt Nothing.

No internet but people TALKED in person and on phone and “my cousin in Florida SAW them and he said…”,
and people actually wrote LETERS and had PEN PALS.
I was outside MSG in NYC for DYNASTY and remember some older teens who apparently had already seen the show were talking the show down to some other kids standing there: “It’s not as good as last time around.”

KISS was my favorite band,
but I had limited income.
I heard DYNASTY at my friends house,
AND I HAD NO DESIRE TO RUN OUT AND GET IT.
I taped his on a cassette and did not get a REAL LP copy until December when I asked for it as a after thought birthday present.

What were MY thoughts
DURING THE SHOW…
WHILE I WAS THERE
at
MADISON SQUARE GARDEN
at 14 yrs old, about to start High School in a few months…?

I had seen KISS once before on the ALIVE II Tour,
and I had seen TED NUGENT go great gonzo on the WEEKEND WARRIORS Tour so,
this DYNASTY show was my 3rd concert Ever…

💊I thought the SLOW build of the beginning of the show and eventually starting with KOTKTW
was a DRASTIC difference from the fast paced BANG! HERE’s KISS! opening w/ISYL And A Glorious Stage With Them Descending To The Floor From The Top Of The Amps on the Love Gun/Alive II Tour
… no Sir, AND I DIDN’T LIKE IT.
A more exciting stage Entrance to a more upbeat Song would have been great…
AND SAVE the way they chose to open the show, and rise up from inside the amps FOR THE ENCORES

💊When ONLY Peter went up in the air on his platform at the end of BLACK DIAMOND and not the entire band like the previous tour: LAME

💊They PLAYED LESS SONGS
and the SOLOS and Paul’s BS stage RAPS got LONGER

💊 Most of the songs in the set were the softer ones,
from old and new albums.
CHRISTINE 16, IWMFLY, NEW YORK GROOVE, BETH.
They didn’t throw in a PARASITE, TAKE ME, ROCKET RIDE or SHE.
The evening sounded like “KISS-LITE”

💊 As mentioned it took the press a while to catch up back then, at MSG was my first time REALLY seeing the new costumes.
Prior to the show there was some super quick clips on TV (I saw this on a B&W set, not color) as part of a commercial for DYNASTY LP and the MSG show.
And a couple days before, in the Sunday Edition of the New York Daily News there was a black and white picture of the band onstage from the photo pit & you could not make much out from it.
* Seeing them IN COLOR LIVE…
It reminded me of Circus Clowns or Vegas Show Girls.

💊 Saw KISS again - with a different set of friends - in September at NEW HAVEN COLISEUM - 1 day before my First Day At High School As A Freshman.
JUDAS PRIEST opened, playing basically their UNLEASHED IN THE EAST album set - really gave KISS a run for the money and I bought UNLEASHED IN THE EAST before Christmas of that year.
One of my buddies made the MISTAKE of wearing his KISS Concert T Shirt to his 1st day as a freshman in
High School…
I can’t help but think that his humiliation/initiations by some Seniors that day at lunch time was only made worse because of his KISS Shirt which invited the shouting of “KISS SUCKS!”, “HE LIKES FUCKIN’ KISS! WHAT A BABY!”, “KISS IS GAY! WAS PAUL STANLEY MADE FOR LOVIN’ YOU?”, etc..
HE NEVER WORE THE SHIRT AGAIN.
I was there too, lived it. I did the whole pen pal thing also
I was also there in 1977 at MSG at 12 years old
I was also there at MSG when I was 14 for the Dynasty show
I was also a KISS fan who made the mistake of wearing a KISS shirt to high school as a freshman. (we didn't go to the same school did we)... :lol:
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Re: KISS was supposed to do 5 nights at Madison Square Garden, New York City in Dynasty tour

Post by caligari »

Coventry1973 wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 3:43 am
caligari wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:49 pm
Coventry1973 wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:31 am
destroyerrnro wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 7:00 pm

Very cool. I imagine you also lived in the Sunshine State at the time. I lived in Port Richey so I had the good fortune of time, place and circumstance to attend the first show of the tour. When the doors of the the Civic Center opened, I ran down to the front. I remember thinking "where are the speakers, this can't be the entire stage?" I had no real point of reference to the scope of the stage front to back. I was thinking the wall of speakers I had grown to associate with Kiss, would somehow rise at some point in the show. During the ride home my friends, who had never seen Kiss, discussed how underwhelmed they were seeing the stage. Their point of reference was the Alive II gatefold. It's a huge stretch, but I wonder if that perception ended up hindering some ticket sales moving forward?
I doubt that. You have to remember that there was no internet. No one was going to go to the show and then have it on Youtube and that would scare away the possibility of ticket sales if what they saw they didn't like. They were on tour at least a month before anything started showing up in the magazines, and all I remember was the photos from Hit Parader with Ace on the cover, with the new KISS stage show.
Doubt Nothing.

No internet but people TALKED in person and on phone and “my cousin in Florida SAW them and he said…”,
and people actually wrote LETERS and had PEN PALS.
I was outside MSG in NYC for DYNASTY and remember some older teens who apparently had already seen the show were talking the show down to some other kids standing there: “It’s not as good as last time around.”

KISS was my favorite band,
but I had limited income.
I heard DYNASTY at my friends house,
AND I HAD NO DESIRE TO RUN OUT AND GET IT.
I taped his on a cassette and did not get a REAL LP copy until December when I asked for it as a after thought birthday present.

What were MY thoughts
DURING THE SHOW…
WHILE I WAS THERE
at
MADISON SQUARE GARDEN
at 14 yrs old, about to start High School in a few months…?

I had seen KISS once before on the ALIVE II Tour,
and I had seen TED NUGENT go great gonzo on the WEEKEND WARRIORS Tour so,
this DYNASTY show was my 3rd concert Ever…

💊I thought the SLOW build of the beginning of the show and eventually starting with KOTKTW
was a DRASTIC difference from the fast paced BANG! HERE’s KISS! opening w/ISYL And A Glorious Stage With Them Descending To The Floor From The Top Of The Amps on the Love Gun/Alive II Tour
… no Sir, AND I DIDN’T LIKE IT.
A more exciting stage Entrance to a more upbeat Song would have been great…
AND SAVE the way they chose to open the show, and rise up from inside the amps FOR THE ENCORES

💊When ONLY Peter went up in the air on his platform at the end of BLACK DIAMOND and not the entire band like the previous tour: LAME

💊They PLAYED LESS SONGS
and the SOLOS and Paul’s BS stage RAPS got LONGER

💊 Most of the songs in the set were the softer ones,
from old and new albums.
CHRISTINE 16, IWMFLY, NEW YORK GROOVE, BETH.
They didn’t throw in a PARASITE, TAKE ME, ROCKET RIDE or SHE.
The evening sounded like “KISS-LITE”

💊 As mentioned it took the press a while to catch up back then, at MSG was my first time REALLY seeing the new costumes.
Prior to the show there was some super quick clips on TV (I saw this on a B&W set, not color) as part of a commercial for DYNASTY LP and the MSG show.
And a couple days before, in the Sunday Edition of the New York Daily News there was a black and white picture of the band onstage from the photo pit & you could not make much out from it.
* Seeing them IN COLOR LIVE…
It reminded me of Circus Clowns or Vegas Show Girls.

💊 Saw KISS again - with a different set of friends - in September at NEW HAVEN COLISEUM - 1 day before my First Day At High School As A Freshman.
JUDAS PRIEST opened, playing basically their UNLEASHED IN THE EAST album set - really gave KISS a run for the money and I bought UNLEASHED IN THE EAST before Christmas of that year.
One of my buddies made the MISTAKE of wearing his KISS Concert T Shirt to his 1st day as a freshman in
High School…
I can’t help but think that his humiliation/initiations by some Seniors that day at lunch time was only made worse because of his KISS Shirt which invited the shouting of “KISS SUCKS!”, “HE LIKES FUCKIN’ KISS! WHAT A BABY!”, “KISS IS GAY! WAS PAUL STANLEY MADE FOR LOVIN’ YOU?”, etc..
HE NEVER WORE THE SHIRT AGAIN.
I was there too, lived it. I did the whole pen pal thing also
I was also there in 1977 at MSG at 12 years old
I was also there at MSG when I was 14 for the Dynasty show
I was also a KISS fan who made the mistake of wearing a KISS shirt to high school as a freshman. (we didn't go to the same school did we).... LOL
😂Hmmmmm…
Are your initials J.D. ?
If not you’re not THE FRESHMAN that I spoke of.

But (I know I said a lot, sorry)
I went to MSG in NYC and
NEW HAVEN COLISEUM < and that was the show J.D. got his shirts at in September / school started for us the next day.

BUT -
Let me ask you…

What were you’re impressions of the DYNASTY Show?

Me actually BEING AT a KISS:ALIVE II TOUR show
(NOT THE SAME as watching on VHS, DVD or YouTube),
pretty much made it hard for ANY band to top them going forward. If I had not SEEN the ALIVE II Show, and my 1st KISS as DYNASTY Show, I would not be have been so disappointed.

Care to share any of YOUR “Freshman Hazing/Wearing a KISS Shirt to School” story?
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Re: KISS was supposed to do 5 nights at Madison Square Garden, New York City in Dynasty tour

Post by Coventry1973 »

caligari wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 3:59 am
Coventry1973 wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 3:43 am
caligari wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:49 pm
Coventry1973 wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:31 am

I doubt that. You have to remember that there was no internet. No one was going to go to the show and then have it on Youtube and that would scare away the possibility of ticket sales if what they saw they didn't like. They were on tour at least a month before anything started showing up in the magazines, and all I remember was the photos from Hit Parader with Ace on the cover, with the new KISS stage show.
Doubt Nothing.

No internet but people TALKED in person and on phone and “my cousin in Florida SAW them and he said…”,
and people actually wrote LETERS and had PEN PALS.
I was outside MSG in NYC for DYNASTY and remember some older teens who apparently had already seen the show were talking the show down to some other kids standing there: “It’s not as good as last time around.”

KISS was my favorite band,
but I had limited income.
I heard DYNASTY at my friends house,
AND I HAD NO DESIRE TO RUN OUT AND GET IT.
I taped his on a cassette and did not get a REAL LP copy until December when I asked for it as a after thought birthday present.

What were MY thoughts
DURING THE SHOW…
WHILE I WAS THERE
at
MADISON SQUARE GARDEN
at 14 yrs old, about to start High School in a few months…?

I had seen KISS once before on the ALIVE II Tour,
and I had seen TED NUGENT go great gonzo on the WEEKEND WARRIORS Tour so,
this DYNASTY show was my 3rd concert Ever…

💊I thought the SLOW build of the beginning of the show and eventually starting with KOTKTW
was a DRASTIC difference from the fast paced BANG! HERE’s KISS! opening w/ISYL And A Glorious Stage With Them Descending To The Floor From The Top Of The Amps on the Love Gun/Alive II Tour
… no Sir, AND I DIDN’T LIKE IT.
A more exciting stage Entrance to a more upbeat Song would have been great…
AND SAVE the way they chose to open the show, and rise up from inside the amps FOR THE ENCORES

💊When ONLY Peter went up in the air on his platform at the end of BLACK DIAMOND and not the entire band like the previous tour: LAME

💊They PLAYED LESS SONGS
and the SOLOS and Paul’s BS stage RAPS got LONGER

💊 Most of the songs in the set were the softer ones,
from old and new albums.
CHRISTINE 16, IWMFLY, NEW YORK GROOVE, BETH.
They didn’t throw in a PARASITE, TAKE ME, ROCKET RIDE or SHE.
The evening sounded like “KISS-LITE”

💊 As mentioned it took the press a while to catch up back then, at MSG was my first time REALLY seeing the new costumes.
Prior to the show there was some super quick clips on TV (I saw this on a B&W set, not color) as part of a commercial for DYNASTY LP and the MSG show.
And a couple days before, in the Sunday Edition of the New York Daily News there was a black and white picture of the band onstage from the photo pit & you could not make much out from it.
* Seeing them IN COLOR LIVE…
It reminded me of Circus Clowns or Vegas Show Girls.

💊 Saw KISS again - with a different set of friends - in September at NEW HAVEN COLISEUM - 1 day before my First Day At High School As A Freshman.
JUDAS PRIEST opened, playing basically their UNLEASHED IN THE EAST album set - really gave KISS a run for the money and I bought UNLEASHED IN THE EAST before Christmas of that year.
One of my buddies made the MISTAKE of wearing his KISS Concert T Shirt to his 1st day as a freshman in
High School…
I can’t help but think that his humiliation/initiations by some Seniors that day at lunch time was only made worse because of his KISS Shirt which invited the shouting of “KISS SUCKS!”, “HE LIKES FUCKIN’ KISS! WHAT A BABY!”, “KISS IS GAY! WAS PAUL STANLEY MADE FOR LOVIN’ YOU?”, etc..
HE NEVER WORE THE SHIRT AGAIN.
I was there too, lived it. I did the whole pen pal thing also
I was also there in 1977 at MSG at 12 years old
I was also there at MSG when I was 14 for the Dynasty show
I was also a KISS fan who made the mistake of wearing a KISS shirt to high school as a freshman. (we didn't go to the same school did we).... LOL
😂Hmmmmm…
Are your initials J.D. ?
If not you’re not THE FRESHMAN that I spoke of.

But (I know I said a lot, sorry)
I went to MSG in NYC and
NEW HAVEN COLISEUM < and that was the show J.D. got his shirts at in September / school started for us the next day.

BUT -
Let me ask you…

What were you’re impressions of the DYNASTY Show?

Me actually BEING AT a KISS:ALIVE II TOUR show
(NOT THE SAME as watching on VHS, DVD or YouTube),
pretty much made it hard for ANY band to top them going forward. If I had not SEEN the ALIVE II Show, and my 1st KISS as DYNASTY Show, I would not be have been so disappointed.

Care to share any of YOUR “Freshman Hazing/Wearing a KISS Shirt to School” story?
Like I said, I was there at MSG 12/16/1977 and also saw them 7/24/1979 at MSG. I honestly liked the Dynasty show, even after seeing the Alive 2 show at the Garden. Crowd going crazy. I was up in the rafters for the Dynasty show. Just seeing all the people there and wishing I could be one closer to the stage. I had a great time. Wasn't going to scrutinize or compare it to the Alive 2 show that I saw a year and a half earlier.
As for my high school orientation... Yeah I wore a KISS shirt during my freshman year in high school. Bad idea. I got chased around the park by the juniors and seniors (good thing I was a fast runner so they didn't catch me). During class while walking down the hallway I got the KISS SUCKS jabs thrown in my direction, with an occasional eraser flung at my head. So I was in the minority, and like your friend, I never wore another KISS shirt to school again.
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Re: KISS was supposed to do 5 nights at Madison Square Garden, New York City in Dynasty tour

Post by KlassicKISS54 »

As much as 1978 is often viewed as the pinnacle of KISS' heyday, I tend to think of 1977 as being the highwater mark. KISS had really been on a tear through the end of that year with their Love Gun /Alive II concerts. Here in Louisville, they played to some 17,000 fans at Freedom hall in 1976 ( for Destroyer)and then in 1977 came to both Rupp Arena in Lexington, (packing in over 16,000 there) and then back to Freedom hall in Louisville later that same year to 19,000 fans. That later date was my first concert with KISS. I'll never forget it. It was electric. The feeling by everyone in the crowd was this was a big happening. KISS was THE band to see by everyone and it showed. My legs shook so bad, I literally had to hang onto my friend's shoulders.

So by 1978 allot of fans like me were coming off this enormous high from having experienced such an amazing event. KISS were super cool and nothing could touch them. In April Double Platinum came out which remains my favorite compilation set with updated versions of the classics (my fav being Dr. Love). But then began all this talk about a movie. So for all that summer everyone was pumped up about getting to see KISS again on television. This hadn't happened since Paul Lynde's Halloween special (for prime time anyway), so it was a HUGE deal. But before that we were going to be treated to not one but FOUR records from KISS created by each member individually. WOW! Talk about getting pumped for an event. So for the majority of 1978, the public was getting hyped up for the next big KISS event. Naturally expectations were high. KISS could do no wrong. Then the albums came out...

To me this started the cracks in that very powerful image. If the music itself was a tidal wave of mixed results, the posters inside should have been a blaring alarm. I couldn't understand the tone of the artwork anymore than I really understood why we got four records that muddled that signature KISS sound. While there were standouts like Ace's record, the project as a whole felt ill conceived and ill advised given KISS' track record for delivering on the goods. Plus it flooded the marketplace with music no one really wanted. So it was a miscue fans had not expected, while giving the critics what they most wanted... an unpopular KISS product. I think most fans just collected the albums for the covers and put them aside waiting for the real event, which was the movie. Then the movie came out...

If I'm being completely honest about my initial reaction, I would say I thought it was cool, but a little strange at the same time. It wasn't at all what I had conceived, but I was so pumped to see KISS on screen, it really colored my opinion. I had spent two hours watching a program that had KISS in it. THAT was its own thing. But it didn't take long for the fallout to start as people got past seeing KISS and started asking what KISS was doing in this film. And the way things worked back then, how your latest project was received set the tone for what people thought about you over the course of that year. There was no internet or social media to talk it out and bury it in the backyard. If you were given a black eye on your latest project, then you walked around with a blemished image for a while. There was no getting away from it.

So the fact that KISS then jumped into these outrageous costumes which only fostered the impression left from the movie, was a real gut punch to fans. Here you had guys now wearing capes and merchandise inserts calling them superheroes. It was yet another major blow to their image that was effectively cratered with the release of Dynasty and a lead off disco song.

People can say what they will about what they like today. Everything finds an audience over the years as time, style, and demand changes. But for THAT time, KISS had miscalculated BADLY. Every step they took in 1978 was a miscue, so whatever patience the public or hardcore fans had left for KISS was fractured severely when they glammed up their image and sound for Dynasty. Everything that they were in both sound and appearance had changed dramatically, so thematically they ceased being the band allot of people had fallen in love with.

So when KISS "returned" to Rupp Arena in Lexington, the attendance was only 9,400 fans. And when they hit Freedom Hall in Louisville, September of '79, that crowd of 19,000 strong in '77 had dwindled to barely 7,000 ticket buyers. It was abysmal. So it wasn't just one thing. It was a string of huge miscues that completely rebranded them which cost them their popularity. So the creative choices they made during that period really sealed their fate and impacted that subsequent tour in a big way.
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Re: KISS was supposed to do 5 nights at Madison Square Garden, New York City in Dynasty tour

Post by TwistedTaste »

KlassicKISS54 wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 11:20 am As much as 1978 is often viewed as the pinnacle of KISS' heyday, I tend to think of 1977 as being the highwater mark. KISS had really been on a tear through the end of that year with their Love Gun /Alive II concerts. Here in Louisville, they played to some 17,000 fans at Freedom hall in 1976 ( for Destroyer)and then in 1977 came to both Rupp Arena in Lexington, (packing in over 16,000 there) and then back to Freedom hall in Louisville later that same year to 19,000 fans. That later date was my first concert with KISS. I'll never forget it. It was electric. The feeling by everyone in the crowd was this was a big happening. KISS was THE band to see by everyone and it showed. My legs shook so bad, I literally had to hang onto my friend's shoulders.

So by 1978 allot of fans like me were coming off this enormous high from having experienced such an amazing event. KISS were super cool and nothing could touch them. In April Double Platinum came out which remains my favorite compilation set with updated versions of the classics (my fav being Dr. Love). But then began all this talk about a movie. So for all that summer everyone was pumped up about getting to see KISS again on television. This hadn't happened since Paul Lynde's Halloween special (for prime time anyway), so it was a HUGE deal. But before that we were going to be treated to not one but FOUR records from KISS created by each member individually. WOW! Talk about getting pumped for an event. So for the majority of 1978, the public was getting hyped up for the next big KISS event. Naturally expectations were high. KISS could do no wrong. Then the albums came out...

To me this started the cracks in that very powerful image. If the music itself was a tidal wave of mixed results, the posters inside should have been a blaring alarm. I couldn't understand the tone of the artwork anymore than I really understood why we got four records that muddled that signature KISS sound. While there were standouts like Ace's record, the project as a whole felt ill conceived and ill advised given KISS' track record for delivering on the goods. Plus it flooded the marketplace with music no one really wanted. So it was a miscue fans had not expected, while giving the critics what they most wanted... an unpopular KISS product. I think most fans just collected the albums for the covers and put them aside waiting for the real event, which was the movie. Then the movie came out...

If I'm being completely honest about my initial reaction, I would say I thought it was cool, but a little strange at the same time. It wasn't at all what I had conceived, but I was so pumped to see KISS on screen, it really colored my opinion. I had spent two hours watching a program that had KISS in it. THAT was its own thing. But it didn't take long for the fallout to start as people got past seeing KISS and started asking what KISS was doing in this film. And the way things worked back then, how your latest project was received set the tone for what people thought about you over the course of that year. There was no internet or social media to talk it out and bury it in the backyard. If you were given a black eye on your latest project, then you walked around with a blemished image for a while. There was no getting away from it.

So the fact that KISS then jumped into these outrageous costumes which only fostered the impression left from the movie, was a real gut punch to fans. Here you had guys now wearing capes and merchandise inserts calling them superheroes. It was yet another major blow to their image that was effectively cratered with the release of Dynasty and a lead off disco song.

People can say what they will about what they like today. Everything finds an audience over the years as time, style, and demand changes. But for THAT time, KISS had miscalculated BADLY. Every step they took in 1978 was a miscue, so whatever patience the public or hardcore fans had left for KISS was fractured severely when they glammed up their image and sound for Dynasty. Everything that they were in both sound and appearance had changed dramatically, so thematically they ceased being the band allot of people had fallen in love with.

So when KISS "returned" to Rupp Arena in Lexington, the attendance was only 9,400 fans. And when they hit Freedom Hall in Louisville, September of '79, that crowd of 19,000 strong in '77 had dwindled to barely 7,000 ticket buyers. It was abysmal. So it wasn't just one thing. It was a string of huge miscues that completely rebranded them which cost them their popularity. So the creative choices they made during that period really sealed their fate and impacted that subsequent tour in a big way.
Yep. The Phantom and Gene’s solo LP. Definitely didn’t help Kiss’ cause.
Nor did the ridiculousness of Gene dating Cher & Miss Ross. That went a long ways towards ruining the mystique of the band.