The Eric Carr doc won't discuss Gene and Paul drama

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The Eric Carr doc won't discuss Gene and Paul drama

Post by Lofton23rdSt »

Carrie Stevens gave an update last week on Eddie Trunk. What is the point of it if "Tale of the Fox" and the "Eric Carr Story" book were already released? Eric's sister is behind this. It discusses why his legacy keeps growing and has some new footage. They want to release it by November. Ace was interviewed for it. Carrie was cut out of the A&E doc. Why won't his sister say what happened?
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Re: The Eric Carr doc won't discuss Gene and Paul drama

Post by KlassicKISS54 »

I saw an interview with Carrie Stevens where she stated they tried to get Eric to sign resignation papers while he was being treated for cancer. I'm inclined not to believe that only because I doubt Eric would have done that video knowing the band actually wanted him gone. I heard accountings he was worried about being replaced, but that's a different head space from someone sticking a paper in your face asking you to leave.
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Re: The Eric Carr doc won't discuss Gene and Paul drama

Post by Kissologist »

Both the Tale doco and the book are really good, but a take from Loretta herself is certainly welcome
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Re: The Eric Carr doc won't discuss Gene and Paul drama

Post by misterhand80 »

Lofton23rdSt wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 8:14 am Carrie Stevens gave an update last week on Eddie Trunk. What is the point of it if "Tale of the Fox" and the "Eric Carr Story" book were already released? Eric's sister is behind this. It discusses why his legacy keeps growing and has some new footage. They want to release it by November. Ace was interviewed for it. Carrie was cut out of the A&E doc. Why won't his sister say what happened?
Perhaps she has what many here lack. Tact. That could be why it is also difficult for some to comprehend.
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Re: The Eric Carr doc won't discuss Gene and Paul drama

Post by Lofton23rdSt »

misterhand80 wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 9:29 am
Lofton23rdSt wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 8:14 am Carrie Stevens gave an update last week on Eddie Trunk. What is the point of it if "Tale of the Fox" and the "Eric Carr Story" book were already released? Eric's sister is behind this. It discusses why his legacy keeps growing and has some new footage. They want to release it by November. Ace was interviewed for it. Carrie was cut out of the A&E doc. Why won't his sister say what happened?
Perhaps she has what many here lack. Tact. That could be why it is also difficult for some to comprehend.
Then why put out another doc?
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Re: The Eric Carr doc won't discuss Gene and Paul drama

Post by misterhand80 »

Lofton23rdSt wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 9:34 am
misterhand80 wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 9:29 am
Lofton23rdSt wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 8:14 am Carrie Stevens gave an update last week on Eddie Trunk. What is the point of it if "Tale of the Fox" and the "Eric Carr Story" book were already released? Eric's sister is behind this. It discusses why his legacy keeps growing and has some new footage. They want to release it by November. Ace was interviewed for it. Carrie was cut out of the A&E doc. Why won't his sister say what happened?
Perhaps she has what many here lack. Tact. That could be why it is also difficult for some to comprehend.
Then why put out another doc?
Have you seen the doc?
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Re: The Eric Carr doc won't discuss Gene and Paul drama

Post by misterhand80 »

Lofton23rdSt wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 9:34 am
misterhand80 wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 9:29 am
Lofton23rdSt wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 8:14 am Carrie Stevens gave an update last week on Eddie Trunk. What is the point of it if "Tale of the Fox" and the "Eric Carr Story" book were already released? Eric's sister is behind this. It discusses why his legacy keeps growing and has some new footage. They want to release it by November. Ace was interviewed for it. Carrie was cut out of the A&E doc. Why won't his sister say what happened?
Perhaps she has what many here lack. Tact. That could be why it is also difficult for some to comprehend.
Then why put out another doc?
Do you read your own posts and comprehend them? Why put out another doc? You answered your own question: “Eric's sister is behind this. It discusses why his legacy keeps growing and has some new footage”
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Re: The Eric Carr doc won't discuss Gene and Paul drama

Post by Lofton23rdSt »

misterhand80 wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 9:41 am
Lofton23rdSt wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 9:34 am
misterhand80 wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 9:29 am
Lofton23rdSt wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 8:14 am Carrie Stevens gave an update last week on Eddie Trunk. What is the point of it if "Tale of the Fox" and the "Eric Carr Story" book were already released? Eric's sister is behind this. It discusses why his legacy keeps growing and has some new footage. They want to release it by November. Ace was interviewed for it. Carrie was cut out of the A&E doc. Why won't his sister say what happened?
Perhaps she has what many here lack. Tact. That could be why it is also difficult for some to comprehend.
Then why put out another doc?
Do you read your own posts and comprehend them? Why put out another doc? You answered your own question: “Eric's sister is behind this. It discusses why his legacy keeps growing and has some new footage”
Yeah, that means another doc should come out. They should tell the truth about what happened.
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Re: The Eric Carr doc won't discuss Gene and Paul drama

Post by joma5477 »

Lofton23rdSt wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 9:34 am
misterhand80 wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 9:29 am
Lofton23rdSt wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 8:14 am Carrie Stevens gave an update last week on Eddie Trunk. What is the point of it if "Tale of the Fox" and the "Eric Carr Story" book were already released? Eric's sister is behind this. It discusses why his legacy keeps growing and has some new footage. They want to release it by November. Ace was interviewed for it. Carrie was cut out of the A&E doc. Why won't his sister say what happened?
Perhaps she has what many here lack. Tact. That could be why it is also difficult for some to comprehend.
Then why put out another doc?
To celebrate the guy's life...
KlassicKISS54 wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 9:14 am I saw an interview with Carrie Stevens where she stated they tried to get Eric to sign resignation papers while he was being treated for cancer. I'm inclined not to believe that only because I doubt Eric would have done that video knowing the band actually wanted him gone. I heard accountings he was worried about being replaced, but that's a different head space from someone sticking a paper in your face asking you to leave.
The hospital video was from April 91. I would assume the things said to have gone down would have had to have been several months later, closer to the end.

I certainly hope things didn't go as shitty as claimed, that there's two sides to every story...but I also don't believe Eric's family hate G&P for no reason, while they're still on good terms with Bruce. Might be a case of the less we know, the better. I've also learned along the way you don't really have to like the people to appreciate the band...otherwise there probably wouldn't be a lot of reason to like most of KISS. Sort of like being a fan of a sports team...the players often times aren't the most likeable people either.
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Re: The Eric Carr doc won't discuss Gene and Paul drama

Post by Lofton23rdSt »

joma5477 wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 9:44 am

To celebrate the guy's life...
Rerelease "Tale of the Fox" instead.
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Re: The Eric Carr doc won't discuss Gene and Paul drama

Post by joma5477 »

Lofton23rdSt wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 9:51 am
joma5477 wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 9:44 am

To celebrate the guy's life...
Rerelease "Tale of the Fox" instead.
How about you watch Tale of the Fox again instead and just skip this? No one is forcing you to buy or watch it. Then anyone that wants to see a new video about Eric can and anyone that would rather just re-watch an old video are good, too. Everyone wins.
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Re: The Eric Carr doc won't discuss Gene and Paul drama

Post by KlassicKISS54 »

joma5477 wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 9:44 am
KlassicKISS54 wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 9:14 am I saw an interview with Carrie Stevens where she stated they tried to get Eric to sign resignation papers while he was being treated for cancer. I'm inclined not to believe that only because I doubt Eric would have done that video knowing the band actually wanted him gone. I heard accountings he was worried about being replaced, but that's a different head space from someone sticking a paper in your face asking you to leave.
The hospital video was from April 91. I would assume the things said to have gone down would have had to have been several months later, closer to the end.

I certainly hope things didn't go as shitty as claimed, that there's two sides to every story...but I also don't believe Eric's family hate G&P for no reason, while they're still on good terms with Bruce. Might be a case of the less we know, the better. I've also learned along the way you don't really have to like the people to appreciate the band...otherwise there probably wouldn't be a lot of reason to like most of KISS. Sort of like being a fan of a sports team...the players often times aren't the most likeable people either.
I was under the impression that Eric's parents have a working relationship with Paul and Gene. Has that changed again or did I just read that wrong? I thought the family had matters sorted out with them.
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Re: The Eric Carr doc won't discuss Gene and Paul drama

Post by Lofton23rdSt »

KlassicKISS54 wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 10:04 am
I was under the impression that Eric's parents have a working relationship with Paul and Gene. Has that changed again or did I just read that wrong? I thought the family had matters sorted out with them.
Why do you think they have a working relationship?
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Re: The Eric Carr doc won't discuss Gene and Paul drama

Post by misterhand80 »

Lofton23rdSt wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 9:43 am
misterhand80 wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 9:41 am
Lofton23rdSt wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 9:34 am
misterhand80 wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 9:29 am

Perhaps she has what many here lack. Tact. That could be why it is also difficult for some to comprehend.
Then why put out another doc?
Do you read your own posts and comprehend them? Why put out another doc? You answered your own question: “Eric's sister is behind this. It discusses why his legacy keeps growing and has some new footage”
Yeah, that means another doc should come out. They should tell the truth about what happened.
You have some issues over many things you can’t control. How about they do what they want with Eric Carr’s legacy. As others said there already is a doc you can watch and you do not need to waste your time with this one. Easy enough, wouldn’t you say?
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Re: The Eric Carr doc won't discuss Gene and Paul drama

Post by Lofton23rdSt »

misterhand80 wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 10:21 am
You have some issues over many things you can’t control. How about they do what they want with Eric Carr’s legacy. As others said there already is a doc you can watch and you do not need to waste your time with this one. Easy enough, wouldn’t you say?
This is a message board. There have been lots of threads on the Kiss A&E doc.
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Re: The Eric Carr doc won't discuss Gene and Paul drama

Post by misterhand80 »

Comprehension.
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Re: The Eric Carr doc won't discuss Gene and Paul drama

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KlassicKISS54 wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 10:04 am I was under the impression that Eric's parents have a working relationship with Paul and Gene. Has that changed again or did I just read that wrong? I thought the family had matters sorted out with them.
Honestly, I don't know. The only official source of info on the topic I've seen any time recent has come from Carrie, who doesn't really have much good to say about it. What little I've read and heard seemed to suggest they weren't on good terms, but it's not exactly something that gets a lot of official coverage.
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Re: The Eric Carr doc won't discuss Gene and Paul drama

Post by KlassicKISS54 »

Lofton23rdSt wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 10:18 am
KlassicKISS54 wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 10:04 am
I was under the impression that Eric's parents have a working relationship with Paul and Gene. Has that changed again or did I just read that wrong? I thought the family had matters sorted out with them.
Why do you think they have a working relationship?
Because back in 2014 someone tried to sue for unpaid royalties for Eric Carr and the family was not behind it. Their response coupled with Paul Stanley's on Twitter made it sound like there was an operating relationship between them and there was no such friction happening. Clearly that might have just been union only for that action.
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Re: The Eric Carr doc won't discuss Gene and Paul drama

Post by Anomaly »

misterhand80 wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 9:39 am
Lofton23rdSt wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 9:34 am
misterhand80 wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 9:29 am
Lofton23rdSt wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 8:14 am Carrie Stevens gave an update last week on Eddie Trunk. What is the point of it if "Tale of the Fox" and the "Eric Carr Story" book were already released? Eric's sister is behind this. It discusses why his legacy keeps growing and has some new footage. They want to release it by November. Ace was interviewed for it. Carrie was cut out of the A&E doc. Why won't his sister say what happened?
Perhaps she has what many here lack. Tact. That could be why it is also difficult for some to comprehend.
Then why put out another doc?
Have you seen the doc?
Does it go into why Gene and Paul didn't keep CK Lendt?
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Re: The Eric Carr doc won't discuss Gene and Paul drama

Post by misterhand80 »

Anomaly wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 11:47 am
misterhand80 wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 9:39 am
Lofton23rdSt wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 9:34 am
misterhand80 wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 9:29 am

Perhaps she has what many here lack. Tact. That could be why it is also difficult for some to comprehend.
Then why put out another doc?
Have you seen the doc?
Does it go into why Gene and Paul didn't keep CK Lendt?
They don’t even mention him.
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Re: The Eric Carr doc won't discuss Gene and Paul drama

Post by Anomaly »

Damn.
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Re: The Eric Carr doc won't discuss Gene and Paul drama

Post by TwistedTaste »

Is there really enough interest for a Carr documentary?
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Re: The Eric Carr doc won't discuss Gene and Paul drama

Post by joma5477 »

TwistedTaste wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 2:50 pm Is there really enough interest for a Carr documentary?
Guessing this is more a passion project than a money making venture.
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Re: The Eric Carr doc won't discuss Gene and Paul drama

Post by Lofton23rdSt »

Anomaly wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 11:47 am
misterhand80 wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 9:39 am
Lofton23rdSt wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 9:34 am
misterhand80 wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 9:29 am

Perhaps she has what many here lack. Tact. That could be why it is also difficult for some to comprehend.
Then why put out another doc?
Have you seen the doc?
Does it go into why Gene and Paul didn't keep CK Lendt?
You're dumb. I've destroyed you in threads before. Even Karl asked why they got rid of him, and they had him on the road with them for 10 years.
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Re: The Eric Carr doc won't discuss Gene and Paul drama

Post by Lofton23rdSt »

KlassicKISS54 wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 11:40 am

Because back in 2014 someone tried to sue for unpaid royalties for Eric Carr and the family was not behind it. Their response coupled with Paul Stanley's on Twitter made it sound like there was an operating relationship between them and there was no such friction happening. Clearly that might have just been union only for that action.
That's because Bruce Kulick told her what to do.
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Re: The Eric Carr doc won't discuss Gene and Paul drama

Post by Lofton23rdSt »

joma5477 wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 9:56 am
Lofton23rdSt wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 9:51 am
joma5477 wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 9:44 am

To celebrate the guy's life...
Rerelease "Tale of the Fox" instead.
How about you watch Tale of the Fox again instead and just skip this? No one is forcing you to buy or watch it. Then anyone that wants to see a new video about Eric can and anyone that would rather just re-watch an old video are good, too. Everyone wins.
No, the doc should mention his treatment.
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Re: The Eric Carr doc won't discuss Gene and Paul drama

Post by Anomaly »

Lofton23rdSt wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 3:00 pm
Anomaly wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 11:47 am
misterhand80 wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 9:39 am
Lofton23rdSt wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 9:34 am

Then why put out another doc?
Have you seen the doc?
Does it go into why Gene and Paul didn't keep CK Lendt?
You're dumb. I've destroyed you in threads before. Even Karl asked why they got rid of him, and they had him on the road with them for 10 years.
Did Eric Carr fire CK Lendt? No one's ever said Eric Carr didn't fire CK Lendt.
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Re: The Eric Carr doc won't discuss Gene and Paul drama

Post by misterhand80 »

Lofton23rdSt wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 3:01 pm
joma5477 wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 9:56 am
Lofton23rdSt wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 9:51 am
joma5477 wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 9:44 am

To celebrate the guy's life...
Rerelease "Tale of the Fox" instead.
How about you watch Tale of the Fox again instead and just skip this? No one is forcing you to buy or watch it. Then anyone that wants to see a new video about Eric can and anyone that would rather just re-watch an old video are good, too. Everyone wins.
No, the doc should mention his treatment.
You seem upset.
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Re: The Eric Carr doc won't discuss Gene and Paul drama

Post by shupey »

I am excited about it just because of the new interviews. Carrie and Loretta have really started embrace Eric's legacy and share more about him with fans that want more to do with Eric. As for the drama, I get the sense it is more with Paul than Gene. Plus, nothing wrong with more KISS related info right?
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Re: The Eric Carr doc won't discuss Gene and Paul drama

Post by Lofton23rdSt »

Anomaly wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 6:47 pm
Lofton23rdSt wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 3:00 pm
Anomaly wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 11:47 am
misterhand80 wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 9:39 am

Have you seen the doc?
Does it go into why Gene and Paul didn't keep CK Lendt?
You're dumb. I've destroyed you in threads before. Even Karl asked why they got rid of him, and they had him on the road with them for 10 years.
Did Eric Carr fire CK Lendt? No one's ever said Eric Carr didn't fire CK Lendt.
Kiss can't claim "Revenge" didn't sell well because of grunge, because Metallica's black album sold well. Anomaly said that.
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Re: The Eric Carr doc won't discuss Gene and Paul drama

Post by Anomaly »

Lofton23rdSt wrote: Wed Jul 07, 2021 4:03 am
Anomaly wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 6:47 pm
Lofton23rdSt wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 3:00 pm
Anomaly wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 11:47 am

Does it go into why Gene and Paul didn't keep CK Lendt?
You're dumb. I've destroyed you in threads before. Even Karl asked why they got rid of him, and they had him on the road with them for 10 years.
Did Eric Carr fire CK Lendt? No one's ever said Eric Carr didn't fire CK Lendt.
Kiss can't claim "Revenge" didn't sell well because of grunge, because Metallica's black album sold well. Anomaly said that.
You got the point I was making wrong (shocker). But, it's true, grunge wasn't the reason why Revenge was a commercial dud. Serves as a nice boogeyman, but that's not what did it in.

Has this really been living in your head for 14 months? :lol:
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Re: The Eric Carr doc won't discuss Gene and Paul drama

Post by Lofton23rdSt »

Anomaly wrote: Wed Jul 07, 2021 11:31 am
Lofton23rdSt wrote: Wed Jul 07, 2021 4:03 am
Anomaly wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 6:47 pm
Lofton23rdSt wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 3:00 pm

You're dumb. I've destroyed you in threads before. Even Karl asked why they got rid of him, and they had him on the road with them for 10 years.
Did Eric Carr fire CK Lendt? No one's ever said Eric Carr didn't fire CK Lendt.
Kiss can't claim "Revenge" didn't sell well because of grunge, because Metallica's black album sold well. Anomaly said that.
You got the point I was making wrong (shocker). But, it's true, grunge wasn't the reason why Revenge was a commercial dud. Serves as a nice boogeyman, but that's not what did it in.

Has this really been living in your head for 14 months? :lol:

You're mentioning from months ago Chris Lendt lol. Grunge was the reason why "Revenge" didn't do better.
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Re: The Eric Carr doc won't discuss Gene and Paul drama

Post by ZachAttack »

Lofton23rdSt wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 8:14 am Carrie Stevens gave an update last week on Eddie Trunk. What is the point of it if "Tale of the Fox" and the "Eric Carr Story" book were already released? Eric's sister is behind this. It discusses why his legacy keeps growing and has some new footage. They want to release it by November. Ace was interviewed for it. Carrie was cut out of the A&E doc. Why won't his sister say what happened?
Loretta has some level of a working relationship with Paul and Gene. She sells a lot of stuff with his image on it, all that stuff you see on the official Carr website is managed and put out by her, and Paul and Gene don't come after her for selling stuff with the KISS logo on it, while at the same time, I believe she still owns some of his rights like his publishing (supposedly Vinnie legitimately DID own his makeup design). I remember listening to some podcast interview with her and she was very hesitant to say anything bad about them for that very reason. There was actually a funny part where she almost said something about seeing a bunch of Gene's wigs backstage, then she stops herself. It was something like "I remember there being a bunch of boxes backstage with Gene's.....uh, you know what I probably shouldn't say that". She was asked about the situation with him being cut off from the health insurance and she refused to talk about it. I'd like a better quality doc on Eric but if we aren't going to get into the nitty gritty then it's kinda like why bother? The events surround his falling out with Paul and his death should be the main focus

Was Carrie actually interviewed for A&E and not used, or was just not interviewed at all?
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Re: The Eric Carr doc won't discuss Gene and Paul drama

Post by ZachAttack »

Lofton23rdSt wrote: Wed Jul 07, 2021 4:03 am
Anomaly wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 6:47 pm
Lofton23rdSt wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 3:00 pm
Anomaly wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 11:47 am

Does it go into why Gene and Paul didn't keep CK Lendt?
You're dumb. I've destroyed you in threads before. Even Karl asked why they got rid of him, and they had him on the road with them for 10 years.
Did Eric Carr fire CK Lendt? No one's ever said Eric Carr didn't fire CK Lendt.
Kiss can't claim "Revenge" didn't sell well because of grunge, because Metallica's black album sold well. Anomaly said that.
Def Leppard's Adrenalize was a number 1 album in 1992. Grunge wasn't even that big of a deal till 93
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Re: The Eric Carr doc won't discuss Gene and Paul drama

Post by Lofton23rdSt »

ZachAttack wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:52 pm

Def Leppard's Adrenalize was a number 1 album in 1992. Grunge wasn't even that big of a deal till 93
Kiss and Def Leppard are different. "Hysteria" sold 12 million copies.
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Re: The Eric Carr doc won't discuss Gene and Paul drama

Post by Lofton23rdSt »

ZachAttack wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:51 pm

Was Carrie actually interviewed for A&E and not used, or was just not interviewed at all?
She was interviewed, but it wasn't used.
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Re: The Eric Carr doc won't discuss Gene and Paul drama

Post by Anomaly »

Lofton23rdSt wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:35 pm
Anomaly wrote: Wed Jul 07, 2021 11:31 am
Lofton23rdSt wrote: Wed Jul 07, 2021 4:03 am
Anomaly wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 6:47 pm

Did Eric Carr fire CK Lendt? No one's ever said Eric Carr didn't fire CK Lendt.
Kiss can't claim "Revenge" didn't sell well because of grunge, because Metallica's black album sold well. Anomaly said that.
You got the point I was making wrong (shocker). But, it's true, grunge wasn't the reason why Revenge was a commercial dud. Serves as a nice boogeyman, but that's not what did it in.

Has this really been living in your head for 14 months? :lol:

You're mentioning from months ago Chris Lendt lol.
Bit of a difference between a bit and posting a stance of mine as some big sort of 'gotcha' of when you bested me in an argument. But, shocker, of course you wouldn't get it.
Grunge was the reason why "Revenge" didn't do better.
Here's the reason why it wasn't. It's quite clear at this point you can't read, but, for those interested, here you go.

KISS was struggling commercially in the immediate aftermath of the release of Hot in the Shade. Hide Your Heart did nothing as a lead single as it wasn't moving significant numbers of albums. The album only made it to #29 before it began to fall down the charts - their worst chart peak since Creatures of the Night (original release.) HYH dropped out of the Billboard 100 by the time the album was about to drop out of the Top-100 on the Billboard 200 on February 3rd (it was at #90 at the time.)

Now then, what appeared on the Hot 100 chart literally the week Hide Your Heart departed it? Forever, which made its debut on the chart at #72 that week. The following week, it shot up to #59. #44 the next and by the following week they had achieved their first top-40 single in a full decade. In following the Billboard 100 performance of Forever and following the weekly charting performance of HITS, you can clearly see a coorelation between Forever's ascension up the chart and HITS suddenly getting a second wave of support to punt it back into the top-60 for nearly a full month.

Now, back to that February 3rd date. Why is that significant? That marks 14 weeks in the top-100 of the album chart before it was about to drop out until Forever lifted it. How's that compare to the previous studio album? That's literally half of the weeks Crazy Nights spent in the top-100 of the album chart.

Grunge wasn't out in 1989, yet KISS's draw as a recording act was clearly DOA until they found signs of life with a hot single. (Thank you, Michael Bolton!)

Now then, flash forward to Revenge. The singles were all weak. Unholy didn't chart on anything in the states. Domino and I Just Wanna both did worse than Hide Your Heart on the rock radio chart - yet better than Rise To It, HITS single #3.

Now, if this was grunge's fault, let's take a look at the next release with the KISS name on it - Alive III - released when grunge was really the in thing in 1993. Surely that album would have done considerably worse than Revenge, no?

- Revenge peaked at #6 on June 6th, 1992. Alive III peaked at #9 on June 5th, 1993.
- Revenge spent three weeks in the top-40 of the Billboard 200. Alive III spent three weeks in the top-40 of the Billboard 200.
- Revenge dropped out of the top-100 after 9 weeks. Alive III dropped out of the top-100 after 6 weeks.
- Once both albums were out of the top-100 though is where you see a difference. Revenge remained on the chart for an additional 14 weeks. Alive III an additional 6.
- Total US sales of Revenge from release to March 2012 - 602,000. Total US sales of Alive III from release to March 2012 - 588,000.
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Re: The Eric Carr doc won't discuss Gene and Paul drama

Post by Lofton23rdSt »

Anomaly wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:35 pm
Lofton23rdSt wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:35 pm
Anomaly wrote: Wed Jul 07, 2021 11:31 am
Lofton23rdSt wrote: Wed Jul 07, 2021 4:03 am

Kiss can't claim "Revenge" didn't sell well because of grunge, because Metallica's black album sold well. Anomaly said that.
You got the point I was making wrong (shocker). But, it's true, grunge wasn't the reason why Revenge was a commercial dud. Serves as a nice boogeyman, but that's not what did it in.

Has this really been living in your head for 14 months? :lol:

You're mentioning from months ago Chris Lendt lol.
Bit of a difference between a bit and posting a stance of mine as some big sort of 'gotcha' of when you bested me in an argument. But, shocker, of course you wouldn't get it.
Grunge was the reason why "Revenge" didn't do better.
Here's the reason why it wasn't. It's quite clear at this point you can't read, but, for those interested, here you go.

KISS was struggling commercially in the immediate aftermath of the release of Hot in the Shade. Hide Your Heart did nothing as a lead single as it wasn't moving significant numbers of albums. The album only made it to #29 before it began to fall down the charts - their worst chart peak since Creatures of the Night (original release.) HYH dropped out of the Billboard 100 by the time the album was about to drop out of the Top-100 on the Billboard 200 on February 3rd (it was at #90 at the time.)

Now then, what appeared on the Hot 100 chart literally the week Hide Your Heart departed it? Forever, which made its debut on the chart at #72 that week. The following week, it shot up to #59. #44 the next and by the following week they had achieved their first top-40 single in a full decade. In following the Billboard 100 performance of Forever and following the weekly charting performance of HITS, you can clearly see a coorelation between Forever's ascension up the chart and HITS suddenly getting a second wave of support to punt it back into the top-60 for nearly a full month.

Now, back to that February 3rd date. Why is that significant? That marks 14 weeks in the top-100 of the album chart before it was about to drop out until Forever lifted it. How's that compare to the previous studio album? That's literally half of the weeks Crazy Nights spent in the top-100 of the album chart.

Grunge wasn't out in 1989, yet KISS's draw as a recording act was clearly DOA until they found signs of life with a hot single. (Thank you, Michael Bolton!)

Now then, flash forward to Revenge. The singles were all weak. Unholy didn't chart on anything in the states. Domino and I Just Wanna both did worse than Hide Your Heart on the rock radio chart - yet better than Rise To It, HITS single #3.

Now, if this was grunge's fault, let's take a look at the next release with the KISS name on it - Alive III - released when grunge was really the in thing in 1993. Surely that album would have done considerably worse than Revenge, no?

- Revenge peaked at #6 on June 6th, 1992. Alive III peaked at #9 on June 5th, 1993.
- Revenge spent three weeks in the top-40 of the Billboard 200. Alive III spent three weeks in the top-40 of the Billboard 200.
- Revenge dropped out of the top-100 after 9 weeks. Alive III dropped out of the top-100 after 6 weeks.
- Once both albums were out of the top-100 though is where you see a difference. Revenge remained on the chart for an additional 14 weeks. Alive III an additional 6.
- Total US sales of Revenge from release to March 2012 - 602,000. Total US sales of Alive III from release to March 2012 - 588,000.
"Bit of a difference between a bit and posting a stance of mine as some big sort of 'gotcha' of when you bested me in an argument. But, shocker, of course you wouldn't get it."
You're dumb. There's no difference between you keep mentioning something I said and me quoting you on the Black Album.
Now then, what appeared on the Hot 100 chart literally the week Hide Your Heart departed it? Forever, which made its debut on the chart at #72 that week. The following week, it shot up to #59. #44 the next and by the following week they had achieved their first top-40 single in a full decade. In following the Billboard 100 performance of Forever and following the weekly charting performance of HITS, you can clearly see a coorelation between Forever's ascension up the chart and HITS suddenly getting a second wave of support to punt it back into the top-60 for nearly a full month.
So? "Forever" was part of "HITS". It doesn't matter that it was a single released later that helped the album sell. It wasn't a single for a movie.

Now then, flash forward to Revenge. The singles were all weak. Unholy didn't chart on anything in the states. Domino and I Just Wanna both did worse than Hide Your Heart on the rock radio chart - yet better than Rise To It, HITS single #3.
So, "Rise to It" didn't do well. They didn't get airplay for any songs on "Revenge," because of grunge. The music scene changed, and Kiss was barely played in 1992. That's your opinion that the singles were weak. Most people thought the album was great, and it sold by word of mouth. It didn't have a hit single, and it sold the same amount as "HITS." If it had a hit single, it would have gone platinum.
Now, if this was grunge's fault, let's take a look at the next release with the KISS name on it - Alive III - released when grunge was really the in thing in 1993. Surely that album would have done considerably worse than Revenge, no?

- Revenge peaked at #6 on June 6th, 1992. Alive III peaked at #9 on June 5th, 1993.
That's a dumb point. It was Kiss' first live album in 16 years and had their 70's hits on it.

- Once both albums were out of the top-100 though is where you see a difference. Revenge remained on the chart for an additional 14 weeks. Alive III an additional 6.
So?

- Total US sales of Revenge from release to March 2012 - 602,000. Total US sales of Alive III from release to March 2012 - 588,000


It's apple and oranges.
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Re: The Eric Carr doc won't discuss Gene and Paul drama

Post by Anomaly »

Lofton23rdSt wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 6:57 pm So? "Forever" was part of "HITS". It doesn't matter that it was a single released later that helped the album sell. It wasn't a single for a movie.
The point was the sales of HITS were dead before Forever broke big with the masses and gave it a second wind. Nobody besides KISS fans gave a shit enough to buy KISS albums anymore. Check the chart data yourself (did you know that KISSFAQ isn't just a forum? Weird, right?) This really isn't high school level reading here.
So, "Rise to It" didn't do well. They didn't get airplay for any songs on "Revenge," because of grunge. The music scene changed, and Kiss was barely played in 1992. That's your opinion that the singles were weak. Most people thought the album was great, and it sold by word of mouth. It didn't have a hit single, and it sold the same amount as "HITS." If it had a hit single, it would have gone platinum.
It's grunge's fault Revenge didn't hit lofty personal expectations that you yourself set. Got it.

Domino [#26] and I Just Wanna [#34] both charted in the top-40 on the mainstream rock chart, as did Hide Your Heart [#22]. How's that chart compiled? By rock radio airplay. Try again.
That's a dumb point. It was Kiss' first live album in 16 years and had their 70's hits on it.

It's apple and oranges.
It really isn't. People weren't flocking to the shelves to pick up Alive III because less than 30% of the tracks on it were from their 70s heyday. The same exact people that were buying Revenge were the same exact people buying Alive III.

Suddenly the argument has changed to grunge was just merely selective on when it wanted to fuck KISS's momentum up.

Also, get my point on Metallica in 1992 right. Anytime it gets pointed out a band sold well after the explosion of grunge, the reaction is always "Well, KISS isn't that band, they're KISS." No fucking shit, that's the point I've been making here.
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Re: The Eric Carr doc won't discuss Gene and Paul drama

Post by misterhand80 »

Anomaly wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:35 pm Here's the reason why it wasn't. It's quite clear at this point you can't read, but, for those interested, here you go.
This was just too funny to leave buried within that post. :lol:
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Re: The Eric Carr doc won't discuss Gene and Paul drama

Post by ACESTATION »

Is the enough interest in a docu like this ?

Not on national TV Network but in some fragmented KISS message board I think some people would watch it.
I still don't understand the health insurance controversy involving Eric's Cancer and KISS's involvement in it.
They said that when Gene and Paul showed up at his funeral everyone was seething with hatred toward.
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Re: The Eric Carr doc won't discuss Gene and Paul drama

Post by Coventry1973 »

ZachAttack wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:51 pm
Lofton23rdSt wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 8:14 am Carrie Stevens gave an update last week on Eddie Trunk. What is the point of it if "Tale of the Fox" and the "Eric Carr Story" book were already released? Eric's sister is behind this. It discusses why his legacy keeps growing and has some new footage. They want to release it by November. Ace was interviewed for it. Carrie was cut out of the A&E doc. Why won't his sister say what happened?
Loretta has some level of a working relationship with Paul and Gene. She sells a lot of stuff with his image on it, all that stuff you see on the official Carr website is managed and put out by her, and Paul and Gene don't come after her for selling stuff with the KISS logo on it, while at the same time, I believe she still owns some of his rights like his publishing (supposedly Vinnie legitimately DID own his makeup design). I remember listening to some podcast interview with her and she was very hesitant to say anything bad about them for that very reason. There was actually a funny part where she almost said something about seeing a bunch of Gene's wigs backstage, then she stops herself. It was something like "I remember there being a bunch of boxes backstage with Gene's.....uh, you know what I probably shouldn't say that". She was asked about the situation with him being cut off from the health insurance and she refused to talk about it. I'd like a better quality doc on Eric but if we aren't going to get into the nitty gritty then it's kinda like why bother? The events surround his falling out with Paul and his death should be the main focus

Was Carrie actually interviewed for A&E and not used, or was just not interviewed at all?
I hear exactly what you're saying. I believe that she has a working relationship with Paul and Gene and they let her put out Eric stuff. They don't seem to be going after her with lawyers forcing her to stop. She has to be careful what she says, but if the relationship with them comes to an end, then I bet all gloves are off and the shit hits the fan.
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Re: The Eric Carr doc won't discuss Gene and Paul drama

Post by bricodd2 »

Maybe we won’t know the truth because it is none of our business.
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Re: The Eric Carr doc won't discuss Gene and Paul drama

Post by lord71 »

Lofton23rdSt wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 8:14 am Carrie was cut out of the A&E doc. Why won't his sister say what happened?
Was she? No one has asked about this from producer or director (according to interviews that I've listened)
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Re: The Eric Carr doc won't discuss Gene and Paul drama

Post by SpinningAcorn »

Lofton23rdSt wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 8:14 am Carrie Stevens gave an update last week on Eddie Trunk. What is the point of it if "Tale of the Fox" and the "Eric Carr Story" book were already released? Eric's sister is behind this. It discusses why his legacy keeps growing and has some new footage. They want to release it by November. Ace was interviewed for it. Carrie was cut out of the A&E doc. Why won't his sister say what happened?
Carrie just seems like an opportunist. I don't think she didn't Eric would have lasted very long had he recovered.

Back when it mattered she lied in the Eric Carr story.

Then when she was getting paid she kind of acted like Kiss did Eric wrong in her book.

She claims she told the truth in the and documentary about it but who knows.

And now conveniently let's sweep it all under the rug again for this doc.

And of course the family doesnt want to say anything because there would go there deals with a Gene and Paul.
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