Shock Me - "Remastered"

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Shock Me - "Remastered"

Post by B5Erik »

OK, I've always had a problem with the tame audio production for the studio version of Shock Me. It doesn't sound bad, just very... tame.

Taking it apart, left and right channels, and I found something that explained that.

The left channel has what sounds like a Telecaster through a low gain Marshall (no pedal, or a pedal with very low gain setting), or maybe even through a Fender amp with minimal gain. The right channel sounds like a Les Paul through an ORANGE amp.

And the guitars are mixed a little low, overall.

NO WONDER the thing sounds so tame. There is no Les Paul through a Marshall tone in the song for the rhythm guitars. Sadly, it's desperately needed.

So re-eq'ing each channel to improve the individual guitar tones gave it more of a KISS sound. It still doesn't sound like RARO, but it's a little closer. The left channel guitar sounds a little fuller, while the right channel has a little more clarity. The guitars growl a little more while also being crisper.

I'd LOVE to be able to do a full remix, but for now this is all I can do... (It's a little more, "In your face," than before, and kicks the crap out of the 1997 remaster!)



And the official remastered version from a few years ago...



The official version is LOUDER, but listen for the guitar tones - that's where you'll hear the difference.

It's a shame that this classic was recorded in such a way that it almost sounds timid. Almost...
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Re: Shock Me - "Remastered"

Post by rwgriffith »

I dig it. Good job!!
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Re: Shock Me - "Remastered"

Post by Tito »

"Tame"?! I can't agree with that at all. In fact I can't relate to any sort of criticism towards any aspect of the studio version of "Shock Me".

A case of the if-it-ain't-brokes if there ever was one.
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Re: Shock Me - "Remastered"

Post by Much Too Soon »

Drums….sounds like Pete’s hitting Quaker Oat boxes. Same with RARO.
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Re: Shock Me - "Remastered"

Post by gabbagabba »

Good Job.
The snare sound on the official remastered version is bad.
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Re: Shock Me - "Remastered"

Post by lespaul »

Tito wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 11:36 am "Tame"?! I can't agree with that at all. In fact I can't relate to any sort of criticism towards any aspect of the studio version of "Shock Me".

A case of the if-it-ain't-brokes if there ever was one.
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Re: Shock Me - "Remastered"

Post by B5Erik »

Tito wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 11:36 am "Tame"?! I can't agree with that at all. In fact I can't relate to any sort of criticism towards any aspect of the studio version of "Shock Me".

A case of the if-it-ain't-brokes if there ever was one.
Tame, polite, restrained, watered down - it all applies.

No Les Paul through a Marshall on the recording. Fail. It's ACE FREAKING FREHLEY!!! At least one of the rhythm guitar tracks on the album should have been a Les Paul through a Marshall with decent gain (either using high volume, or a pedal).

And the guitars are too low in the mix. The bass sounds fairly polite, too. It doesn't hold up to the audio production on RARO or the studio side of ALIVE II. It just doesn't.


AND, to be clear, I'm only talking about the guitar/bass tones, and the overall mix. The performances are excellent!
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Re: Shock Me - "Remastered"

Post by misterhand80 »

lespaul wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 12:24 pm
Tito wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 11:36 am "Tame"?! I can't agree with that at all. In fact I can't relate to any sort of criticism towards any aspect of the studio version of "Shock Me".

A case of the if-it-ain't-brokes if there ever was one.
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Re: Shock Me - "Remastered"

Post by Diss »

Cool that you're taking stabs at doing these more to your own tastes, but I much prefer the remaster. Guitars have more bite. They sound muffled somewhat in the new version. They almost have a HTH feel, which I don't personally dig.

I got no problems whatsoever with the LG version.
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Re: Shock Me - "Remastered"

Post by 69th_B1izard »

I wish Universal would do something cool like create a box with a few different mixes and mastering. Something like what’s been done with The Beatles and some others.
Last edited by 69th_B1izard on Sun Jun 20, 2021 1:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Shock Me - "Remastered"

Post by lespaul »

do unmasked instead 😉
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Re: Shock Me - "Remastered"

Post by B5Erik »

Diss wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 1:08 pm Cool that you're taking stabs at doing these more to your own tastes, but I much prefer the remaster. Guitars have more bite. They sound muffled somewhat in the new version. They almost have a HTH feel, which I don't personally dig.
Actually, unfortunately, that's the bass. In EQ'ing the guitars to boost the frequencies that make them sound more Les Paul through a Marshall, the bass ended up getting a little muddier. That's always the trick with remastering - you can't isolate the tracks, so what you do to one instrument, you do to all of them.

I'd much rather do a full remix and make it more like the live version.
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Re: Shock Me - "Remastered"

Post by kenn.ace »

misterhand80 wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 12:59 pm
lespaul wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 12:24 pm
Tito wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 11:36 am "Tame"?! I can't agree with that at all. In fact I can't relate to any sort of criticism towards any aspect of the studio version of "Shock Me".

A case of the if-it-ain't-brokes if there ever was one.
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Re: Shock Me - "Remastered"

Post by Diss »

B5Erik wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 1:24 pm
Diss wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 1:08 pm Cool that you're taking stabs at doing these more to your own tastes, but I much prefer the remaster. Guitars have more bite. They sound muffled somewhat in the new version. They almost have a HTH feel, which I don't personally dig.
Actually, unfortunately, that's the bass. In EQ'ing the guitars to boost the frequencies that make them sound more Les Paul through a Marshall, the bass ended up getting a little muddier. That's always the trick with remastering - you can't isolate the tracks, so what you do to one instrument, you do to all of them.

I'd much rather do a full remix and make it more like the live version.
Yeah, it's tough without the actual tracks to work with. It's still cool hearing different approaches, though, so keep it up.
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Re: Shock Me - "Remastered"

Post by spacekace »

kenn.ace wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 1:35 pm
misterhand80 wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 12:59 pm
lespaul wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 12:24 pm
Tito wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 11:36 am "Tame"?! I can't agree with that at all. In fact I can't relate to any sort of criticism towards any aspect of the studio version of "Shock Me".

A case of the if-it-ain't-brokes if there ever was one.
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Re: Shock Me - "Remastered"

Post by alanrosembung »

You’ve ruined the drums. They sound like gated Phil Collins 80s drums. Turned it off after ten seconds.
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Re: Shock Me - "Remastered"

Post by B5Erik »

alanrosembung wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 3:04 pm You’ve ruined the drums. They sound like gated Phil Collins 80s drums. Turned it off after ten seconds.
That's not me. I put no effects on the recording, nor did I have access to the isolated tracks. That's what the original recording sounds like - with a different EQ setting.

My focus was on the guitars, since they are so timid and UN-KISSlike in tone.

The remaster sounds a lot better on my computer with my monitor sound system. The compression used by YouTube takes away some of that clarity, unfortunately, and that really affected this one more than others.
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Re: Shock Me - "Remastered"

Post by Farewell Tour 2030 »

The EQ you used to beef up the guitars really ruin the overall mix. Those drums at the top sound horrible and it carries through the tune.
B5Erik wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 3:39 pm
alanrosembung wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 3:04 pm You’ve ruined the drums. They sound like gated Phil Collins 80s drums. Turned it off after ten seconds.
That's not me. I put no effects on the recording, nor did I have access to the isolated tracks. That's what the original recording sounds like - with a different EQ setting.

My focus was on the guitars, since they are so timid and UN-KISSlike in tone.

The remaster sounds a lot better on my computer with my monitor sound system. The compression used by YouTube takes away some of that clarity, unfortunately, and that really affected this one more than others.
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Re: Shock Me - "Remastered"

Post by B5Erik »

Farewell Tour 2030 wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 4:23 pm The EQ you used to beef up the guitars really ruin the overall mix. Those drums at the top sound horrible and it carries through the tune.
B5Erik wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 3:39 pm
alanrosembung wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 3:04 pm You’ve ruined the drums. They sound like gated Phil Collins 80s drums. Turned it off after ten seconds.
That's not me. I put no effects on the recording, nor did I have access to the isolated tracks. That's what the original recording sounds like - with a different EQ setting.

My focus was on the guitars, since they are so timid and UN-KISSlike in tone.

The remaster sounds a lot better on my computer with my monitor sound system. The compression used by YouTube takes away some of that clarity, unfortunately, and that really affected this one more than others.
Like I said, it sounds better without the YouTube compression. Something I need to adjust somehow (add more high end, most likely).

I would much prefer to have the multi-tracks to isolate each instrument and EQ them appropriately.
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Re: Shock Me - "Remastered"

Post by Destroyer72 »

I'm going to have to go with the official one this time Erik. The drums sound weaker. It makes the entire song sound flat.

The official has more oooomf all the way through.

Better luck next time Erik.
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Re: Shock Me - "Remastered"

Post by Reign1701 »

The original is better.
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Re: Shock Me - "Remastered"

Post by B5Erik »

Yeah, listening to it on the YouTube version and on my computer there's a noticeable difference. Even on my computer, while I totally brought the guitars out, it did make the overall sound too midrangey. Ugh.

SO, this is TAKE 2...

(I used a little auto gain compensation with some milder EQ to bring out the guitars a bit, but still give them a little more growl. I think this one sounds much better.)

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Re: Shock Me - "Remastered"

Post by missingdiver »

Its a production trick..Eddie kept the guitars drier and tamer and hence made the solo guitar explode when it kicks in....its frequencies man. The solo just rips....because the other guitars don’t.

In modern productions all the guitars can be big, but then lowered during the solo with automation...lots of tricks of the trade.
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Re: Shock Me - "Remastered"

Post by TwistedTaste »

B5Erik wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 11:12 am OK, I've always had a problem with the tame audio production for the studio version of Shock Me. It doesn't sound bad, just very... tame.

Taking it apart, left and right channels, and I found something that explained that.

The left channel has what sounds like a Telecaster through a low gain Marshall (no pedal, or a pedal with very low gain setting), or maybe even through a Fender amp with minimal gain. The right channel sounds like a Les Paul through an ORANGE amp.

And the guitars are mixed a little low, overall.

NO WONDER the thing sounds so tame. There is no Les Paul through a Marshall tone in the song for the rhythm guitars. Sadly, it's desperately needed.

So re-eq'ing each channel to improve the individual guitar tones gave it more of a KISS sound. It still doesn't sound like RARO, but it's a little closer. The left channel guitar sounds a little fuller, while the right channel has a little more clarity. The guitars growl a little more while also being crisper.

I'd LOVE to be able to do a full remix, but for now this is all I can do... (It's a little more, "In your face," than before, and kicks the crap out of the 1997 remaster!)



And the official remastered version from a few years ago...



The official version is LOUDER, but listen for the guitar tones - that's where you'll hear the difference.

It's a shame that this classic was recorded in such a way that it almost sounds timid. Almost...
Sacrilege. Don’t mess with perfection
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Re: Shock Me - "Remastered"

Post by B5Erik »

TwistedTaste wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 5:55 pm
Sacrilege. Don’t mess with perfection
I didn't. The studio version of Shock Me isn't exactly studio production perfection. The performances are, but not the tones and mix.

I did re-do the remaster because I wasn't happy with how the EQ changed the drums and bass in the first one.
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Re: Shock Me - "Remastered"

Post by Destroyer72 »

B5Erik wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 5:11 pm Yeah, listening to it on the YouTube version and on my computer there's a noticeable difference. Even on my computer, while I totally brought the guitars out, it did make the overall sound too midrangey. Ugh.

SO, this is TAKE 2...

(I used a little auto gain compensation with some milder EQ to bring out the guitars a bit, but still give them a little more growl. I think this one sounds much better.)

That sounds better
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Re: Shock Me - "Remastered"

Post by Fnug »

First, EQ'ing the L and R channels separately is madness, as it alters the frequency, gain and pan on all the mono information (bass, bass drum, snare, vocals etc).

Second, recording with a Telecaster in the studio makes perfect sense, as the single coils bring a lot more clarity to the recordings. The overtones are much more under control, rather than the grainier Les Paul. I'm sure Eddie Kramer would agree.

Third, the original mix sounding "tame" is your subjective opinion, not some objective truth. To my ears, the original is pretty close to 70's rock perfection.
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Re: Shock Me - "Remastered"

Post by Tommyr »

Video removed by the uploader. Fucking lame AF.
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Re: Shock Me - "Remastered"

Post by 70skid »

I like the original Eddie Kramer version.
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Re: Shock Me - "Remastered"

Post by B5Erik »

Tommyr wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 7:41 am Video removed by the uploader. Fucking lame AF.
Replaced by another. Not reading the comments, fucking lame AF. :wink:


Seriously, the first one didn't turn out the way I had hoped, especially given the YouTube compression, so I re-did it.
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Re: Shock Me - "Remastered"

Post by B5Erik »

Fnug wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 1:26 am First, EQ'ing the L and R channels separately is madness, as it alters the frequency, gain and pan on all the mono information (bass, bass drum, snare, vocals etc).
Yes and no. Only if you're making drastic changes to either channel, and not doing so in an evenhanded manner. If you balance out the EQ between the two channels so neither is louder than the other, and you're doing similar things to both, you're fine. If anything, it's going to add to the openness and stereo separation without losing the level of any instruments.
Second, recording with a Telecaster in the studio makes perfect sense, as the single coils bring a lot more clarity to the recordings. The overtones are much more under control, rather than the grainier Les Paul. I'm sure Eddie Kramer would agree.
Absolutely. But without a Les Paul through a Marshall on at least one of the rhythm tracks, it doesn't sound like KISS. It certainly doesn't sound like Ace! And that's where the Les Paul through an Orange really threw me off, and why the song sounds so polite/tame compared to the live versions.
Third, the original mix sounding "tame" is your subjective opinion, not some objective truth. To my ears, the original is pretty close to 70's rock perfection.
No, saying that the original mix sounds tame is actually a fact if you're comparing it to the previous KISS studio albums, or if you're comparing it to what the song sounded like live.

KISS wasn't just a, "Rock band," they were considered to be a Heavy Metal band in the 70's - for what Metal was at the time. (Most 70's Metal is now considered to be Hard Rock, but bands and artists like Aerosmith and Ted Nugent were considered to be Metal in the 70's - Heavy Metal back then wasn't what it became in the mid 80's.) By those standards, the studio version of Shock Me IS tame.
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Re: Shock Me - "Remastered"

Post by Tommyr »

B5Erik wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 8:28 am
Tommyr wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 7:41 am Video removed by the uploader. Fucking lame AF.
Replaced by another. Not reading the comments, fucking lame AF. :wink:


Seriously, the first one didn't turn out the way I had hoped, especially given the YouTube compression, so I re-did it.
Then you should have removed the original video from the original post. Thus avoiding my comment. Simple really.
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Re: Shock Me - "Remastered"

Post by B5Erik »

Tommyr wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 9:20 am
B5Erik wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 8:28 am
Tommyr wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 7:41 am Video removed by the uploader. Fucking lame AF.
Replaced by another. Not reading the comments, fucking lame AF. :wink:


Seriously, the first one didn't turn out the way I had hoped, especially given the YouTube compression, so I re-did it.
Then you should have removed the original video from the original post. Thus avoiding my comment. Simple really.
Maybe, or maybe I didn't replace it because it was my mea culpa. I screwed up the first time, so that one is gone. I put the replacement in a comment below.
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Re: Shock Me - "Remastered"

Post by LordThurisaz »

Image

:lol:
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Re: Shock Me - "Remastered"

Post by Vinnie Saves Coupons »

I understand the desire to tweak the EQ, etc. on various KISS recordings, but this is not one of them.

If Ace got a thinner, cleaner rhythm tone (more Page-like?) for this song, then that's what he was going for. If he wanted something heavier (and more uniform left-to-right) he would've tracked it that way. It's clear he wanted something different this time; possibly to provide a greater contrast with the guitar solo as missingdiver suggested.

Also, the image you used in your video is really misleading: You've gone out of your way to make it look like an official release by copying the "[Band] — Topic" videos that are auto-generated for YouTube. You've got the Topic graphic style down to the smallest detail.

You may think that's funny, but I think it's pretty uncool to mislead people into thinking that your fan "remastering" has anything to do with an actual KISS release.
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Re: Shock Me - "Remastered"

Post by UltraCynic »

Sounds horrible.

Why not post another of your amateur 80s demos that you think should have been on LG instead?
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Re: Shock Me - "Remastered"

Post by Much Too Soon »

I think it sounds fantastic.
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Re: Shock Me - "Remastered"

Post by Much Too Soon »

alanrosembung wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 3:04 pm You’ve ruined the drums. They sound like gated Phil Collins 80s drums. Turned it off after ten seconds.
The Drums on RARO and LG sound like shit no matter what. Any improvements are…IMPROVEMENTS.
Shame the work of one of the greatest drummers of the 70’s is represented this way. Damn shame.
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Re: Shock Me - "Remastered"

Post by B5Erik »

Vinnie Saves Coupons wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 12:20 pm Also, the image you used in your video is really misleading: You've gone out of your way to make it look like an official release by copying the "[Band] — Topic" videos that are auto-generated for YouTube. You've got the Topic graphic style down to the smallest detail.

You may think that's funny, but I think it's pretty uncool to mislead people into thinking that your fan "remastering" has anything to do with an actual KISS release.
It would uncool IF I were somehow charging people. I'm not. It's free. And, more often than not, people actually ENJOY these more than the official versions.
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Re: Shock Me - "Remastered"

Post by Vinnie Saves Coupons »

B5Erik wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 12:33 pm It would uncool IF I were somehow charging people. I'm not. It's free. And, more often than not, people actually ENJOY these more than the official versions.
So deliberately misleading people is cool if you don't charge them money. Got it.
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Re: Shock Me - "Remastered"

Post by B5Erik »

Vinnie Saves Coupons wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 12:37 pm
B5Erik wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 12:33 pm It would uncool IF I were somehow charging people. I'm not. It's free. And, more often than not, people actually ENJOY these more than the official versions.
So deliberately misleading people is cool if you don't charge them money. Got it.
:roll:

If they ENJOY it, why do you care?
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Re: Shock Me - "Remastered"

Post by Much Too Soon »

B5Erik wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 12:42 pm
Vinnie Saves Coupons wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 12:37 pm
B5Erik wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 12:33 pm It would uncool IF I were somehow charging people. I'm not. It's free. And, more often than not, people actually ENJOY these more than the official versions.
So deliberately misleading people is cool if you don't charge them money. Got it.
:roll:

If they ENJOY it, why do you care?
These people giving you a hard time for the most part …..should be in a padded room.🤪
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Vinnie Saves Coupons
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Re: Shock Me - "Remastered"

Post by Vinnie Saves Coupons »

B5Erik wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 12:42 pm
:roll:

If they ENJOY it, why do you care?
Hey, you can tweak KISS to your heart's content. And if you've got a following who enjoy what you do, more power to you. My issue is with your graphic, and trying to pass it off as something it isn't. And if your response to that is basically "Who cares?" then there's not much of a conversation to be had, is there? Good luck to you.
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B5Erik
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Re: Shock Me - "Remastered"

Post by B5Erik »

Vinnie Saves Coupons wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 12:57 pm
B5Erik wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 12:42 pm
:roll:

If they ENJOY it, why do you care?
Hey, you can tweak KISS to your heart's content. And if you've got a following who enjoy what you do, more power to you. My issue is with your graphic, and trying to pass it off as something it isn't. And if your response to that is basically "Who cares?" then there's not much of a conversation to be had, is there? Good luck to you.
See the quote above.

Seriously, NO ONE is hurt. KISS gets paid (through YouTube), and the fans get to enjoy the song with some improved sonics.

What's the problem? Seriously, I'd like to know what the downside is. No one is hurt, and almost everyone prefers my versions to the official versions, AND KISS gets paid. Win/Win.
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Re: Shock Me - "Remastered"

Post by Mahatma »

spacekace wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 2:55 pm
kenn.ace wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 1:35 pm
misterhand80 wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 12:59 pm
lespaul wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 12:24 pm

+1
+1
+1
+1
The original is perfect as is. +1
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Re: Shock Me - "Remastered"

Post by acesmiddlefinger »

B5Erik wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 1:03 pm No one is hurt, and almost everyone prefers my versions to the official versions.
On the next mix you do add a bit ot trumpet as you always seem to be blowing your own!!
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Re: Shock Me - "Remastered"

Post by B5Erik »

acesmiddlefinger wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 2:15 pm
B5Erik wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 1:03 pm No one is hurt, and almost everyone prefers my versions to the official versions.
On the next mix you do add a bit ot trumpet as you always seem to be blowing your own!!
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Tito
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Re: Shock Me - "Remastered"

Post by Tito »

B5Erik wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 1:03 pm improved sonics
Opinion.

B5Erik wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 1:03 pm almost everyone prefers my versions to the official versions
Let's not get carried away here.
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Re: Shock Me - "Remastered"

Post by misterhand80 »

Mahatma wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 1:37 pm
spacekace wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 2:55 pm
kenn.ace wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 1:35 pm
misterhand80 wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 12:59 pm

+1
+1
+1
The original is perfect as is. +1
No. Haven't you heard? Almost everyone prefers these versions to the official versions. Almost everyone. Fact.


:shock:
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B5Erik
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Re: Shock Me - "Remastered"

Post by B5Erik »

misterhand80 wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 12:11 am
Mahatma wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 1:37 pm
spacekace wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 2:55 pm
kenn.ace wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 1:35 pm

+1
+1
The original is perfect as is. +1
No. Haven't you heard? Almost everyone prefers these versions to the official versions. Almost everyone. Fact.
:lol:

You guys are funny. Someone takes the time to actually try to update and improve the sonics of something mixed for the limited technology of an earlier era, and you cop an attitude about it, as if trying to make a classic sound better is a bad thing.

Hey, if you prefer the originals, more power to you! The vast majority of feedback I get is that the tweaking I do to the sonics is an improvement far more often than not. Just like the 1997 remasters were better than the 1980's CDs. But 1997 was 24 years ago, and technology has improved a lot since then. KISS and Universal haven't bothered to re-release their albums on CD with improved sonics since then, so I've done it myself - for fun. I enjoy taking a shot at improving the sonics on those tracks. And I honestly believe that in almost every case I've succeeded. My first shot at Shock Me didn't hit the mark. I focused so hard on beefing up the guitars and making it sound more like KISS live that I missed how that impacted the bass and drums. My bad. I fixed it on my second attempt, which sounds amazingly similar to the 2014 remaster (which still hasn't been released on CD as it should have been).

Again, if you don't want to hear changes to the sonics, then listen to the original 1970's vinyl. That's a realistic option if you've still got a turntable and prefer that sound. Preferring that sound is a valid opinion. Crank up the original vinyl if you've got it!

But since vinyl can't handle the highs and lows that CD's (and other digital formats) can, I prefer more current technology, and I prefer the bigger, fuller sound you can get with that technology (particularly CDs). A lot of people do.

If anyone makes an attempt to make something better, that should be viewed as a good thing, not a bad thing.
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