How many Monster books sold???

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Re: How many Monster books sold???

Post by John Connor »

pepperkitty wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 7:32 am
TwistedTaste wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:40 pm Such a half baked idea. And the price was ridiculously offensive.

How cool would it have been to have a book like this with the Dunruss cards?
Totally agree , the Topps card comp have put out hardback books of some of their card series. I’ve got the Mars Attacks, planet of the apes, and Star Wars. Absolutely awesome and cost around 15-25 bucks!
Wow, I did not know those Topps books existed. The SW ones look pretty amazing!
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Re: How many Monster books sold???

Post by Soylent Gene »

Who chose the photos for this abomination? Some of them are very underwhelming.
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Re: How many Monster books sold???

Post by Doose »

suninlondon wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 5:58 pm I found out recently that my customer had no intention of paying the final bill. Imagine that, leaving a supplier with a 175k debt with no way to collect.
This is terrible. Was it KISS that the agreement was with, or was it a third-party who had licensed the idea for the book? Was the $175k the value of the contract, or the hard costs that your company put out? I'm just trying to figure out how this can happen when you have a major band, major licensing company (I'm assuming Epic Rights brokered the deal), etc. involved.
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Re: How many Monster books sold???

Post by suninlondon »

Soylent Gene wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 8:47 am Who chose the photos for this abomination? Some of them are very underwhelming.
If you don't have a copy of the book or have not seen it then your comments are based on seeing some pictures on your screen. The book is massive and printed with enhanced inks to get the extra colour. Each picture was proofed and flown to LA for Tommy to check and sign off. You are looking at a collection of images chosen by the band for their special reasons.
The printing process involved so much ink that the pages (which were 200 gsm unprinted) ended up being 300 gsm with the ink used.
The book was put together with care and every image had upwards of 10 hours work on them.

I agree the book was too big but to call this an abomination is a slap in the face to every person who worked really hard to bring this book to market. I stand by every person who worked on the project in good faith to produce an extraordinary book.
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Re: How many Monster books sold???

Post by B5Erik »

suninlondon wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 4:14 pm
Soylent Gene wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 8:47 am Who chose the photos for this abomination? Some of them are very underwhelming.
If you don't have a copy of the book or have not seen it then your comments are based on seeing some pictures on your screen. The book is massive and printed with enhanced inks to get the extra colour. Each picture was proofed and flown to LA for Tommy to check and sign off. You are looking at a collection of images chosen by the band for their special reasons.
The printing process involved so much ink that the pages (which were 200 gsm unprinted) ended up being 300 gsm with the ink used.
The book was put together with care and every image had upwards of 10 hours work on them.

I agree the book was too big but to call this an abomination is a slap in the face to every person who worked really hard to bring this book to market. I stand by every person who worked on the project in good faith to produce an extraordinary book.
Well said.
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Re: How many Monster books sold???

Post by Rockandrolloverman »

suninlondon wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 4:14 pm
Soylent Gene wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 8:47 am Who chose the photos for this abomination? Some of them are very underwhelming.
If you don't have a copy of the book or have not seen it then your comments are based on seeing some pictures on your screen. The book is massive and printed with enhanced inks to get the extra colour. Each picture was proofed and flown to LA for Tommy to check and sign off. You are looking at a collection of images chosen by the band for their special reasons.
The printing process involved so much ink that the pages (which were 200 gsm unprinted) ended up being 300 gsm with the ink used.
The book was put together with care and every image had upwards of 10 hours work on them.

I agree the book was too big but to call this an abomination is a slap in the face to every person who worked really hard to bring this book to market. I stand by every person who worked on the project in good faith to produce an extraordinary book.
Agree.
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Re: How many Monster books sold???

Post by TwistedTaste »

suninlondon wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 4:14 pm. Each picture was proofed and flown to LA for Tommy to check and sign off.
Another thing I can blame him for
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Re: How many Monster books sold???

Post by highvoltage1969 »

suninlondon wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 4:14 pm
Soylent Gene wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 8:47 am Who chose the photos for this abomination? Some of them are very underwhelming.
If you don't have a copy of the book or have not seen it then your comments are based on seeing some pictures on your screen. The book is massive and printed with enhanced inks to get the extra colour. Each picture was proofed and flown to LA for Tommy to check and sign off. You are looking at a collection of images chosen by the band for their special reasons.
The printing process involved so much ink that the pages (which were 200 gsm unprinted) ended up being 300 gsm with the ink used.
The book was put together with care and every image had upwards of 10 hours work on them.

I agree the book was too big but to call this an abomination is a slap in the face to every person who worked really hard to bring this book to market. I stand by every person who worked on the project in good faith to produce an extraordinary book.
:salut:
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Re: How many Monster books sold???

Post by Ara78 »

I love the images posted in this thread. I'm sure the book is beautiful.
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Re: How many Monster books sold???

Post by Nately120 »

Velvis wrote: Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:41 pm Has there ever been a book of similar pricing?
If Vinnie ever writes his tell-all book and self-publishes it might cost about five grand for a copy.
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Re: How many Monster books sold???

Post by Ratmir »

Never understood what they were thinking with this book
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Re: How many Monster books sold???

Post by alanrosembung »

Same as the coffin. Great way to get millions of dollars worth of free press internationally. Didn’t matter to them if they sold out the first day or sold none of them.

Suninlondon - let me guess, you and your company believed the hype that they were one of the biggest bands in the world, that they had millions of fans that would snap all up these books within weeks and you’d probably have to do a reprint, right? You paid a fee to KISS to be involved with the project and they didn’t lose a penny on this debacle because you assumed all the risk of selling them right? And when it became evident that you had a lame duck on your hands KISS didn’t give a fuck because they’ve already got paid and basically used you guys for free publicity all over the world for “their” inventive concept? And hell, any band that can sell a $4200 book must be a massive band right?

… and then some other business gets hooked and takes a chance on the next bit of merch.

It’s like a pyramid scheme. The pyramid scheme of creating KISS Krap that will all get discounted to 50% off in six months.
Last edited by alanrosembung on Thu Jun 17, 2021 1:39 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: How many Monster books sold???

Post by alanrosembung »

suninlondon wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:08 pm Two images from the book
Great shots.

Put them in a $40 tourbook not a $4200 piece of furniture.
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Re: How many Monster books sold???

Post by Where's Drago? »

The book looks fantastic. I'm just hoping this image simply doesn't translate well to a small digital file reposted on the internet or something, but this looks off:

Image
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Re: How many Monster books sold???

Post by andykiss4ever »

kissjrj wrote: Fri Sep 15, 2017 9:32 am
Vandelay Industries wrote:Whoever ordered one of those books, I hope the postal carrier kicked you in the nuts when you opened the front door.
You might have to travel to Canada and do it yourself. :bom:

My Canadian cover version of the KISS Monster Book (#0012) finally arrived on December 3rd. After a substantial investment and patiently waiting 5 months all I can say is that it's an absolute "masterpiece"! I know that it is promoted as a coffee table book, however, mine is being displayed on the dinning table. The size, weight and sheer quality of this art book is second to none. A proud addition to my high end "KISS Kollection" for sure!

Sincerely,
Thomas Anderson

Image
I would buy it if I had the room to display and read it easily and the spare cash to afford it. I think it's great you got it, enjoy!
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Re: How many Monster books sold???

Post by Soylent Gene »

suninlondon wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 4:14 pm
Soylent Gene wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 8:47 am Who chose the photos for this abomination? Some of them are very underwhelming.
If you don't have a copy of the book or have not seen it then your comments are based on seeing some pictures on your screen. The book is massive and printed with enhanced inks to get the extra colour. Each picture was proofed and flown to LA for Tommy to check and sign off. You are looking at a collection of images chosen by the band for their special reasons.
The printing process involved so much ink that the pages (which were 200 gsm unprinted) ended up being 300 gsm with the ink used.
The book was put together with care and every image had upwards of 10 hours work on them.

I agree the book was too big but to call this an abomination is a slap in the face to every person who worked really hard to bring this book to market. I stand by every person who worked on the project in good faith to produce an extraordinary book.
I have indeed seen the book in person and the scale and quality of the craftsmanship is quite impressive however, the choice of photos selected is questionable. Some of the photos are fantastic and some are just plain shite. So many iconic photos to choose from that weren’t represented.
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Re: How many Monster books sold???

Post by TwistedTaste »

Soylent Gene wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:28 am
suninlondon wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 4:14 pm
Soylent Gene wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 8:47 am Who chose the photos for this abomination? Some of them are very underwhelming.
If you don't have a copy of the book or have not seen it then your comments are based on seeing some pictures on your screen. The book is massive and printed with enhanced inks to get the extra colour. Each picture was proofed and flown to LA for Tommy to check and sign off. You are looking at a collection of images chosen by the band for their special reasons.
The printing process involved so much ink that the pages (which were 200 gsm unprinted) ended up being 300 gsm with the ink used.
The book was put together with care and every image had upwards of 10 hours work on them.

I agree the book was too big but to call this an abomination is a slap in the face to every person who worked really hard to bring this book to market. I stand by every person who worked on the project in good faith to produce an extraordinary book.
I have indeed seen the book in person and the scale and quality of the craftsmanship is quite impressive however, the choice of photos selected is questionable. Some of the photos are fantastic and some are just plain shite. So many iconic photos to choose from that weren’t represented.
I’m sure Gene & Paul didn’t want to pay rights for some of the more iconic photos. This was one of the cost cutting methods as used to keep the book affordable for all fans
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Re: How many Monster books sold???

Post by Soylent Gene »

TwistedTaste wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:31 am
Soylent Gene wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:28 am
suninlondon wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 4:14 pm
Soylent Gene wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 8:47 am Who chose the photos for this abomination? Some of them are very underwhelming.
If you don't have a copy of the book or have not seen it then your comments are based on seeing some pictures on your screen. The book is massive and printed with enhanced inks to get the extra colour. Each picture was proofed and flown to LA for Tommy to check and sign off. You are looking at a collection of images chosen by the band for their special reasons.
The printing process involved so much ink that the pages (which were 200 gsm unprinted) ended up being 300 gsm with the ink used.
The book was put together with care and every image had upwards of 10 hours work on them.

I agree the book was too big but to call this an abomination is a slap in the face to every person who worked really hard to bring this book to market. I stand by every person who worked on the project in good faith to produce an extraordinary book.
I have indeed seen the book in person and the scale and quality of the craftsmanship is quite impressive however, the choice of photos selected is questionable. Some of the photos are fantastic and some are just plain shite. So many iconic photos to choose from that weren’t represented.
I’m sure Gene & Paul didn’t want to pay rights for some of the more iconic photos. This was one of the cost cutting methods as used to keep the book affordable for all fans
Affordable! 😆
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Re: How many Monster books sold???

Post by Doose »

suninlondon wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 4:14 pm
Soylent Gene wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 8:47 am Who chose the photos for this abomination? Some of them are very underwhelming.
If you don't have a copy of the book or have not seen it then your comments are based on seeing some pictures on your screen. The book is massive and printed with enhanced inks to get the extra colour. Each picture was proofed and flown to LA for Tommy to check and sign off. You are looking at a collection of images chosen by the band for their special reasons.
The printing process involved so much ink that the pages (which were 200 gsm unprinted) ended up being 300 gsm with the ink used.
The book was put together with care and every image had upwards of 10 hours work on them.

I agree the book was too big but to call this an abomination is a slap in the face to every person who worked really hard to bring this book to market. I stand by every person who worked on the project in good faith to produce an extraordinary book.
Here here!

Actually, that paragraph above would have been GREAT in the sales pitch for the book originally.
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Re: How many Monster books sold???

Post by suninlondon »

alanrosembung wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 12:21 am Same as the coffin. Great way to get millions of dollars worth of free press internationally. Didn’t matter to them if they sold out the first day or sold none of them.

Suninlondon - let me guess, you and your company believed the hype that they were one of the biggest bands in the world, that they had millions of fans that would snap all up these books within weeks and you’d probably have to do a reprint, right? You paid a fee to KISS to be involved with the project and they didn’t lose a penny on this debacle because you assumed all the risk of selling them right? And when it became evident that you had a lame duck on your hands KISS didn’t give a fuck because they’ve already got paid and basically used you guys for free publicity all over the world for “their” inventive concept? And hell, any band that can sell a $4200 book must be a massive band right?

… and then some other business gets hooked and takes a chance on the next bit of merch.

It’s like a pyramid scheme. The pyramid scheme of creating KISS Krap that will all get discounted to 50% off in six months.
Actually I was employed by the company that did the deal. I did all the work as they had no clue and in the end when they realised that 57 was all the books that would be sold they just stopped. Getting any money after that was impossible and when I threatened to sue them they simply closed the business and walked away. So I was a simple supplier in the chain.
If they had sold the books for $1800 then they might have had a better return.
Due to this debt, I lost a business and 6 people lost their jobs. The knock on effect to my second business was also catastrophic. I very nearly lost my house and all my assets. I was not the one who did the deal with anyone involved with the band and until that project came along I was ignorant about the KISS merchandising world.
Wrong place wrong time and wrong project.
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Re: How many Monster books sold???

Post by Doose »

suninlondon wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 9:30 am
alanrosembung wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 12:21 am Same as the coffin. Great way to get millions of dollars worth of free press internationally. Didn’t matter to them if they sold out the first day or sold none of them.

Suninlondon - let me guess, you and your company believed the hype that they were one of the biggest bands in the world, that they had millions of fans that would snap all up these books within weeks and you’d probably have to do a reprint, right? You paid a fee to KISS to be involved with the project and they didn’t lose a penny on this debacle because you assumed all the risk of selling them right? And when it became evident that you had a lame duck on your hands KISS didn’t give a fuck because they’ve already got paid and basically used you guys for free publicity all over the world for “their” inventive concept? And hell, any band that can sell a $4200 book must be a massive band right?

… and then some other business gets hooked and takes a chance on the next bit of merch.

It’s like a pyramid scheme. The pyramid scheme of creating KISS Krap that will all get discounted to 50% off in six months.
Actually I was employed by the company that did the deal. I did all the work as they had no clue and in the end when they realised that 57 was all the books that would be sold they just stopped. Getting any money after that was impossible and when I threatened to sue them they simply closed the business and walked away. So I was a simple supplier in the chain.
If they had sold the books for $1800 then they might have had a better return.
Due to this debt, I lost a business and 6 people lost their jobs. The knock on effect to my second business was also catastrophic. I very nearly lost my house and all my assets. I was not the one who did the deal with anyone involved with the band and until that project came along I was ignorant about the KISS merchandising world.
Wrong place wrong time and wrong project.
What was KISS' cost per book?
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Re: How many Monster books sold???

Post by suninlondon »

It was around £350 per book
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Re: How many Monster books sold???

Post by suninlondon »

Sorry I don't know that but manufacturing was £350
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Re: How many Monster books sold???

Post by Doose »

suninlondon wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 10:35 am It was around £350 per book
Thanks. That's about $500. So $4200 - 500 = $3700

$3700 net x 57 quantity sold = $210,900

Let's say they charged $2,000 per book and sold 150. That would be

$1,500 x 150 = $225,000

Let's say they charged $1,000 per book and sold 300 of them.

$500 x 300 = $150,000

The book was big, but KISS wasn't a big enough band to put out this kind of book to make it financially feasible.

Since the company they did the agreement with went out of business, if I were the printing company I would have finished putting them together and sold them for $500 each to recoup my cost. Who's going to sue? Or they should have had a clause in the agreement that allowed the company to recoup costs if the agreement was breached.
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Re: How many Monster books sold???

Post by suninlondon »

The problem is that KISS are a very litigious brand and anyone caught selling without permission is likely to be buried in a KISS coffin.....
Joking aside I contacted the lawyers and they were prepared to let me sell the book if I paid them $300,000 up front. Total waste fo time.
The printer is not happy and I am not sure where the stock is because they are out of pocket 80,000 Euros. It may have been pulped for all I know and if it is not then the printer will want the money plus storage fees.
So you are looking at around $420,000 before you get your hands on the stock. No the books are not finished as we had to stop mid production but there will be costs to finish them as well. I would add another $100,000 for that and maybe another $30,000 contingency fund. I am sure that the printer will want the money upfront as will KISS so you start with a negative balance of more than $500,000 before you can sell the books.

Looking at this now I can see this would be a fantasy to try and do this. It was and always will be KISStastrophe.
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Re: How many Monster books sold???

Post by Doose »

suninlondon wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 11:15 am The problem is that KISS are a very litigious brand and anyone caught selling without permission is likely to be buried in a KISS coffin.....
Joking aside I contacted the lawyers and they were prepared to let me sell the book if I paid them $300,000 up front. Total waste fo time.
The printer is not happy and I am not sure where the stock is because they are out of pocket 80,000 Euros. It may have been pulped for all I know and if it is not then the printer will want the money plus storage fees.
So you are looking at around $420,000 before you get your hands on the stock. No the books are not finished as we had to stop mid production but there will be costs to finish them as well. I would add another $100,000 for that and maybe another $30,000 contingency fund. I am sure that the printer will want the money upfront as will KISS so you start with a negative balance of more than $500,000 before you can sell the books.

Looking at this now I can see this would be a fantasy to try and do this. It was and always will be KISStastrophe.
Thanks for your insight into all of this. It's super interesting, but a bit disheartening at the same time.
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Re: How many Monster books sold???

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suninlondon wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 11:15 am The problem is that KISS are a very litigious brand and anyone caught selling without permission is likely to be buried in a KISS coffin.....
Joking aside I contacted the lawyers and they were prepared to let me sell the book if I paid them $300,000 up front. Total waste fo time.
The printer is not happy and I am not sure where the stock is because they are out of pocket 80,000 Euros. It may have been pulped for all I know and if it is not then the printer will want the money plus storage fees.
So you are looking at around $420,000 before you get your hands on the stock. No the books are not finished as we had to stop mid production but there will be costs to finish them as well. I would add another $100,000 for that and maybe another $30,000 contingency fund. I am sure that the printer will want the money upfront as will KISS so you start with a negative balance of more than $500,000 before you can sell the books.

Looking at this now I can see this would be a fantasy to try and do this. It was and always will be KISStastrophe.
I’m sorry you had to go through this, I really am. Sadly, I’ve heard this same story before from others who have tried to do business with these guys (cough... KISSWORLD). Deal with the devil indeed.
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Re: How many Monster books sold???

Post by TwistedTaste »

If you’re going to get in bed with somebody - do your due diligence. Especially guys like Gene & Paul who lack ethics
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Re: How many Monster books sold???

Post by Where's Drago? »

Was this a UK company? Not sure about insolvency laws elsewhere, but surely a print company that goes bust in the middle of an expensive print run *should* have all those printed pages classed as tangible assets. These would have been sold off in order to pay out of pocket creditors. What was the company name again?
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Re: How many Monster books sold???

Post by Somebody Backstage »

Where's Drago? wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 2:52 pm Was this a UK company? Not sure about insolvency laws elsewhere, but surely a print company that goes bust in the middle of an expensive print run *should* have all those printed pages classed as tangible assets. These would have been sold off in order to pay out of pocket creditors. What was the company name again?
Would there even be much of a market for them?
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Re: How many Monster books sold???

Post by Soylent Gene »

And why is TOMMY THAYER approving and signing off on this stuff? Who made him the authority on all things KISS? Shouldn’t it be Gene and Paul signing off on these images? No wonder some of the photos they used were so boring. Look who approved them.
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Re: How many Monster books sold???

Post by sabresaxon »

Only KISS Korp could fuck up this project so hard by over thinking it (beside Ros of course).

A thick A3 sized poster book for $100 would have sold well.
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Re: How many Monster books sold???

Post by Phyllis Simmons »

Seems to be quite a lot of images of the current line up were used for this Monster book. I can't imagine many fans would be too interested in that?

Not sure why the contractor can't sell the individual pages to recoup some of the costs though. I remember photos of a whole lot of the pages sitting in a pile in their warehouse. They've been left to hang out to dry by the client reneging on the deal?? I thought they'd be within their rights to sell whatever stock they have to at least try and recoup something?!

If the print quality and paper quality is exceptional which all reports suggest - some of the pages if they were sold separately would make nice posters?! I'd plonk some $ down for a page or two that I really liked of the classic era?!

Also maybe Ros could use some of his $300K to buy up some pages; staple them together and send them out as "Magic"?
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Re: How many Monster books sold???

Post by suninlondon »

Apologies for the mix up in names it was Paul who signed off on the colour not Tommy
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Re: How many Monster books sold???

Post by Somebody Backstage »

suninlondon wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 6:26 am Apologies for the mix up in names it was Paul who signed off on the colour not Tommy
I guess Paul is now the villain!
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Re: How many Monster books sold???

Post by Doose »

Soylent Gene wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 8:59 pm And why is TOMMY THAYER approving and signing off on this stuff? Who made him the authority on all things KISS? Shouldn’t it be Gene and Paul signing off on these images? No wonder some of the photos they used were so boring. Look who approved them.
Honestly, I'd be fine with Tommy signing off on things. Say what you want about Tommy, but he IS a KISS historian, understands what the band is about, and has consistently been a creative force with overseeing merchandise and video releases.
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Re: How many Monster books sold???

Post by TwistedTaste »

Doose wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 6:53 am
Soylent Gene wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 8:59 pm And why is TOMMY THAYER approving and signing off on this stuff? Who made him the authority on all things KISS? Shouldn’t it be Gene and Paul signing off on these images? No wonder some of the photos they used were so boring. Look who approved them.
Honestly, I'd be fine with Tommy signing off on things. Say what you want about Tommy, but he IS a KISS historian, understands what the band is about, and has consistently been a creative force with overseeing merchandise and video releases.
He ruined the second coming, Kissologies & the Love Gun deluxe release.
His track record speaks for itself.

You get what you pay for. Guess which route Gene & Paul went?
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Re: How many Monster books sold???

Post by Doose »

TwistedTaste wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 6:59 am
Doose wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 6:53 am
Soylent Gene wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 8:59 pm And why is TOMMY THAYER approving and signing off on this stuff? Who made him the authority on all things KISS? Shouldn’t it be Gene and Paul signing off on these images? No wonder some of the photos they used were so boring. Look who approved them.
Honestly, I'd be fine with Tommy signing off on things. Say what you want about Tommy, but he IS a KISS historian, understands what the band is about, and has consistently been a creative force with overseeing merchandise and video releases.
He ruined the second coming, Kissologies & the Love Gun deluxe release.
His track record speaks for itself.

You get what you pay for. Guess which route Gene & Paul went?
What was wrong with Second Coming? And the album releases he's probably under a lot of restrictions from the record company - they need to make sure they put out something that actually makes money (unlike the MONSTER book).
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Re: How many Monster books sold???

Post by TwistedTaste »

Doose wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 7:00 am
TwistedTaste wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 6:59 am
Doose wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 6:53 am
Soylent Gene wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 8:59 pm And why is TOMMY THAYER approving and signing off on this stuff? Who made him the authority on all things KISS? Shouldn’t it be Gene and Paul signing off on these images? No wonder some of the photos they used were so boring. Look who approved them.
Honestly, I'd be fine with Tommy signing off on things. Say what you want about Tommy, but he IS a KISS historian, understands what the band is about, and has consistently been a creative force with overseeing merchandise and video releases.
He ruined the second coming, Kissologies & the Love Gun deluxe release.
His track record speaks for itself.

You get what you pay for. Guess which route Gene & Paul went?
What was wrong with Second Coming? And the album releases he's probably under a lot of restrictions from the record company - they need to make sure they put out something that actually makes money (unlike the MONSTER book).
The second coming needed to spend more time on specific areas - spend 30 minutes on the 4 guys rehearsing in that small room. Spend 30 minutes on the dress rehearsals. Spend 30 minutes on Tiger stadium rehearsals, checking out the stage, etc)

It’s jumped around way to much. It’s almost like one giant commercial or infomercial.
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Re: How many Monster books sold???

Post by Four-Who-Are-One »

suninlondon wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 9:30 amActually I was employed by the company that did the deal. I did all the work as they had no clue and in the end when they realised that 57 was all the books that would be sold they just stopped. Getting any money after that was impossible and when I threatened to sue them they simply closed the business and walked away. So I was a simple supplier in the chain.
If they had sold the books for $1800 then they might have had a better return.
Due to this debt, I lost a business and 6 people lost their jobs. The knock on effect to my second business was also catastrophic. I very nearly lost my house and all my assets. I was not the one who did the deal with anyone involved with the band and until that project came along I was ignorant about the KISS merchandising world.
Wrong place wrong time and wrong project.

Sorry to hear of your experience, and thanks heaps for sharing those pics. Would love to see more if you're open to posting them.
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Re: How many Monster books sold???

Post by Phyllis Simmons »

sabresaxon wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 2:19 am Only KISS Korp could fuck up this project so hard by over thinking it (beside Ros of course).

A thick A3 sized poster book for $100 would have sold well.
or KISSTORY III - The Monster Edition. :idea: :P

$199.. Use all those Monster photos, add some things to the story. It suggests a continuation of the Volumes. Same size and dimensions as Vol I & II. . The completists need it. They could probably also do another print-run of Volume I and II, with the interest it would generate. Thats all too obvious an idea though..

Honestly these guys are insane sometimes; and not always the geniuses that they purport to be... :lol:
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Re: How many Monster books sold???

Post by sabresaxon »

Yes Gene likes to equate his wealth to his business acumen - he really shouldn’t.
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Re: How many Monster books sold???

Post by alanrosembung »

Again - it wasn’t about how many books they were ever going to sell. It was just a wank to get some free publicity. They didn’t sell a single coffin back in the day either, but people still talk about it.
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Re: How many Monster books sold???

Post by sabresaxon »

TwistedTaste wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 7:05 am
Doose wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 7:00 am
TwistedTaste wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 6:59 am
Doose wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 6:53 am

Honestly, I'd be fine with Tommy signing off on things. Say what you want about Tommy, but he IS a KISS historian, understands what the band is about, and has consistently been a creative force with overseeing merchandise and video releases.
He ruined the second coming, Kissologies & the Love Gun deluxe release.
His track record speaks for itself.

You get what you pay for. Guess which route Gene & Paul went?
What was wrong with Second Coming? And the album releases he's probably under a lot of restrictions from the record company - they need to make sure they put out something that actually makes money (unlike the MONSTER book).
The second coming needed to spend more time on specific areas - spend 30 minutes on the 4 guys rehearsing in that small room. Spend 30 minutes on the dress rehearsals. Spend 30 minutes on Tiger stadium rehearsals, checking out the stage, etc)

It’s jumped around way to much. It’s almost like one giant commercial or infomercial.
Yes SC is a puff piece that goes on waaaay too long.

A honest 60-90 min doco about the reunion lead up ending with the band stepping onto the stage at Tiger Stadium would be far better.

With the full TS show on a separate disc.
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Re: How many Monster books sold???

Post by steveh67 »

suninlondon wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 9:30 am
alanrosembung wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 12:21 am Same as the coffin. Great way to get millions of dollars worth of free press internationally. Didn’t matter to them if they sold out the first day or sold none of them.

Suninlondon - let me guess, you and your company believed the hype that they were one of the biggest bands in the world, that they had millions of fans that would snap all up these books within weeks and you’d probably have to do a reprint, right? You paid a fee to KISS to be involved with the project and they didn’t lose a penny on this debacle because you assumed all the risk of selling them right? And when it became evident that you had a lame duck on your hands KISS didn’t give a fuck because they’ve already got paid and basically used you guys for free publicity all over the world for “their” inventive concept? And hell, any band that can sell a $4200 book must be a massive band right?

… and then some other business gets hooked and takes a chance on the next bit of merch.

It’s like a pyramid scheme. The pyramid scheme of creating KISS Krap that will all get discounted to 50% off in six months.
Actually I was employed by the company that did the deal. I did all the work as they had no clue and in the end when they realised that 57 was all the books that would be sold they just stopped. Getting any money after that was impossible and when I threatened to sue them they simply closed the business and walked away. So I was a simple supplier in the chain.
If they had sold the books for $1800 then they might have had a better return.
Due to this debt, I lost a business and 6 people lost their jobs. The knock on effect to my second business was also catastrophic. I very nearly lost my house and all my assets. I was not the one who did the deal with anyone involved with the band and until that project came along I was ignorant about the KISS merchandising world.
Wrong place wrong time and wrong project.
Sorry to hear this happened. :(
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Re: How many Monster books sold???

Post by DoggFather »

I never understood the idea of producing such a huge book.

Not user-friendly at all.

The choice of images is questionable too.

Way too many Tommy/Eric photos.

By the way, this isn't a knock at the people who worked on it. Just saying the Tommy/Eric content was a turn off for me.
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Re: How many Monster books sold???

Post by Doose »

DoggFather wrote: Sat Jun 19, 2021 8:50 pm I never understood the idea of producing such a huge book.

Not user-friendly at all.

The choice of images is questionable too.

Way too many Tommy/Eric photos.

By the way, this isn't a knock at the people who worked on it. Just saying the Tommy/Eric content was a turn off for me.
Not a knock to Tommy and Eric, but they're not collectible. Imagine if they had done this book with never-before-seen photos from '73-'80, I mean really rare photos blown up to 3 x 2 1/2' from the original negatives. THAT would have been amazing.
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Re: How many Monster books sold???

Post by redinthesky »

TwistedTaste wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 7:05 am
Doose wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 7:00 am
TwistedTaste wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 6:59 am
Doose wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 6:53 am

Honestly, I'd be fine with Tommy signing off on things. Say what you want about Tommy, but he IS a KISS historian, understands what the band is about, and has consistently been a creative force with overseeing merchandise and video releases.
He ruined the second coming, Kissologies & the Love Gun deluxe release.
His track record speaks for itself.

You get what you pay for. Guess which route Gene & Paul went?
What was wrong with Second Coming? And the album releases he's probably under a lot of restrictions from the record company - they need to make sure they put out something that actually makes money (unlike the MONSTER book).
The second coming needed to spend more time on specific areas - spend 30 minutes on the 4 guys rehearsing in that small room. Spend 30 minutes on the dress rehearsals. Spend 30 minutes on Tiger stadium rehearsals, checking out the stage, etc)

It’s jumped around way to much. It’s almost like one giant commercial or infomercial.
30 minutes is a long time however. You can cover each of that stuff in a small fraction of that time. I haven't watched it in forever but I remember liking Second Coming very much. My main gripe with it was, in true Kiss fashion, they made it a 2-VHS set to charge you more money, when they clearly didn't have to do that at all, the running total was 2 1/4 hours which could have easily been put on one tape without quality loss (and no loss in viewing momentum).
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Re: How many Monster books sold???

Post by Phyllis Simmons »

alanrosembung wrote: Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:56 am Again - it wasn’t about how many books they were ever going to sell. It was just a wank to get some free publicity. They didn’t sell a single coffin back in the day either, but people still talk about it.
There’s certainly some truth to that. Though as sun describes earlier; the initial order was for about 1,100 copies of Monstrosity. Yes it was about having a public wank and the curious “news bites” that it would generate. I revisited a couple of those on YouTube for the first time in 7 years maybe?! Curious I guess after this thread was bumped. Most news bites have the tone suggesting the gall of these fools selling a 5K book?! :lol:
But what an absolutely horrendous idea though.. My thoughts then and now.

Having said that though; I’d say G&P genuinely thought they could probably sell the 1,100 copies of the “pre-order”. (or sold via the third party). To them the 1,100 copies was probably a low, safe number that they thought the hardest core - who buy up all the crazy shit, would easily gobble up.. 1,100 copies is a safe number to shift - especially worldwide they probably thought.

So when this hideous venture stalled at a lousy 57 copies sold, the ludicrous nature of this project I guess became apparent to them. So time to wind up any involvement, and leaving the companies who were involved in this fiasco in financial ruins seemed to be of no consequence to them either. There’s probably some more to this story overall than what sun is saying here; but quite possibly there's not that much more?
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Re: How many Monster books sold???

Post by DoggFather »

Doose wrote: Sat Jun 19, 2021 8:56 pm
DoggFather wrote: Sat Jun 19, 2021 8:50 pm I never understood the idea of producing such a huge book.

Not user-friendly at all.

The choice of images is questionable too.

Way too many Tommy/Eric photos.

By the way, this isn't a knock at the people who worked on it. Just saying the Tommy/Eric content was a turn off for me.
Not a knock to Tommy and Eric, but they're not collectible. Imagine if they had done this book with never-before-seen photos from '73-'80, I mean really rare photos blown up to 3 x 2 1/2' from the original negatives. THAT would have been amazing.
I agree!