Did KIϟϟ Reach Its Limit on Makeup Characters?

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Did KIϟϟ Reach Its Limit on Makeup Characters?

Post by Bruce »

Were all of the 'good' makeup designs already used after Vinnie's came out?

I remember Bruce Kulick's 'Design My KIϟϟ Makeup Contest'. There were a surprising number of entries, and not all by old farts. In fact, a sizeable percentage was college-aged girls, if I recall. And while many had ideas, really, none of them were ... good.

BruceMakeup.jpg

None would've complimented the other KIϟϟ makeups; but Bruce did encourage these people -- rightfully so -- to just go for it. The idea was to have fun with it. Still ... it proved to me that Gene & Paul were right to not try to invent any more. There weren't any left to use.
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Re: Did KIϟϟ Reach Its Limit on Makeup Characters?

Post by Soylent Gene »

The difference is, the guys who created the original KISS makeup designs were actually talented, creative people.
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Re: Did KIϟϟ Reach Its Limit on Makeup Characters?

Post by Lofton23rdSt »

Professional wrestling has had lots of makeup designs. The band should have ended in 2001.
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Re: Did KIϟϟ Reach Its Limit on Makeup Characters?

Post by alanrosembung »

No that’s absolutely absurd.

Eric’s Fox makeup was great.

Vinnie’s was great.

The first time you saw ANY of them you probably thought wtf. After you get to know what it is it all makes sense.

But yeah, agree those Kulick ones were garbage. But half of those were done by makeup artists trying to win the completion who clearly didn’t know anything about KISS or what the makeup was meant to be like. There were wacky airbrush ones that would have been totally impractical for someone to wear more than once.
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Re: Did KIϟϟ Reach Its Limit on Makeup Characters?

Post by Bruce »

Wrestler warpaint isn't really all that good, from what I've seen of it. Certainly not what I would call KIϟϟ compatible ...

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Re: Did KIϟϟ Reach Its Limit on Makeup Characters?

Post by spacekace »

Eric Singer should have become TheStinger™️. They could have made him into a wasp.
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Re: Did KIϟϟ Reach Its Limit on Makeup Characters?

Post by Phyllis Simmons »

Bruce wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 7:05 pm Were all of the 'good' makeup designs already used after Vinnie's came out?

I remember Bruce Kulick's 'Design My KIϟϟ Makeup Contest'. There were a surprising number of entries, and not all by old farts. In fact, a sizeable percentage was college-aged girls, if I recall. And while many had ideas, really, none of them were ... good.


BruceMakeup.jpg


None would've complimented the other KIϟϟ makeups; but Bruce did encourage these people -- rightfully so -- to just go for it. The idea was to have fun with it. Still ... it proved to me that Gene & Paul were right to not try to invent any more. There weren't any left to use.
I don't remember that - Brucey's Make Up contest?! I'll always maintain, that this final phase of KISS should have had Singer as The Hawk, and Bruce as The Sorcerer. (thereby alleviating the need for Tommy to ever have been in the band). They could have just brought Bruce back as they should have..

Doesn't matter squat now of course, but I absolutely believe this proposed version of the band would have been very successful.. They might have had a couple of good albums in them, and they wouldn't have pissed off a good % of their hardcores the way they did.. Could have picked up where Carnival left off and maybe continued as a real band and less off a Tribute/ Nostalgic act??
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Re: Did KIϟϟ Reach Its Limit on Makeup Characters?

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Re: Did KIϟϟ Reach Its Limit on Makeup Characters?

Post by redinthesky »

Wow, I like Bruce and everything and I know I've said this before, but I had no idea he had that Kiss makeup contest. He just seems so obsessed with Kiss. I wonder how the boys in Grand Funk feel about it.

You know, even though Bruce says he wouldn't have played "the Ace role" if he was asked, I'm not fully convinced anymore that Bruce would have refused the job. I used to think he'd never have done it, being in the band 12 years and on numerous gold and platinum albums, as himself. Why would he want to go from that, to portraying a former Kiss member? But I've changed on that, I'm 50/50 now towards Bruce saying yes, I'll do it. I wonder what the real reason was that G&P never asked him.
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Re: Did KIϟϟ Reach Its Limit on Makeup Characters?

Post by firekiss »

They didn't reach the limit of characters.

They, in their minds anyway, reached the limit if profiting off new characters
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Re: Did KIϟϟ Reach Its Limit on Makeup Characters?

Post by Stanley! You look so cute »

redinthesky wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 11:48 pm Wow, I like Bruce and everything and I know I've said this before, but I had no idea he had that Kiss makeup contest. He just seems so obsessed with Kiss. I wonder how the boys in Grand Funk feel about it.

You know, even though Bruce says he wouldn't have played "the Ace role" if he was asked, I'm not fully convinced anymore that Bruce would have refused the job. I used to think he'd never have done it, being in the band 12 years and on numerous gold and platinum albums, as himself. Why would he want to go from that, to portraying a former Kiss member? But I've changed on that, I'm 50/50 now towards Bruce saying yes, I'll do it. I wonder what the real reason was that G&P never asked him.
I've always thought that Bruce would've slipped into the Ace role without a second thought. 100% he'd be up for it. Christ, I think he'd even play the Vinnie role, Ankh and all, if they asked him.
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Re: Did KIϟϟ Reach Its Limit on Makeup Characters?

Post by alanrosembung »

After seven years of making peanuts with Union and being forced to join Grand Funk to pay the bills you bet your ass he would have done it.
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Re: Did KIϟϟ Reach Its Limit on Makeup Characters?

Post by Going Blind »

Yes, I think that Kiss did reach its limit with characters. When you think about it, only Pete has an actual identifiable character of the original 4, a cat. But Gene calling himself a Demon, Paul a Starchild and Ace a Spaceman, well they got kind of lucky because they are not identifiable as any of those characters, we identify them with that because we are told that's what there characters are and it stuck.
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Re: Did KIϟϟ Reach Its Limit on Makeup Characters?

Post by curryleaf »

No, I don't think they did reach a limit. When the four members created their characters - and make-up - it was supposedly based around their personal soul searching and bringing forth the persona they most felt aligned to.

While it's true that most evolved over time, especially Paul, it's also true that Gene, Peter and Ace ended up not far from their original visions. I don't see any reason why new members couldn't have gone through the same process each time, just as they pretty much did with Eric and Vinnie.

I mean, the Fox and the Wizard? Those characters are creative and certainly not what the majority of people would likely identify as if asked to come up with something and yet both looked very cool. I think there was definitely more mileage in the concept, although it's also true that it relies to a large degree on the people behind the make-up. Bruce couldn't have pulled it off to anywhere near the same extent that Vinnie did, he just doesn't have the same attitude.
Last edited by curryleaf on Mon Jun 14, 2021 10:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Did KIϟϟ Reach Its Limit on Makeup Characters?

Post by Bruce »

As far as Bruce wearing the makeup, I believe that he only softened his stance on the possibility because of decades gone by. The question itself has changed meanings, after all this time. When he was still in the band, the only way the makeup could even be put back on was to have him quit or get fired.

After the Farewell Tour, Bruce had already seen some of the resentment of Singer in Pete's outfit. Bruce's having been ousted in the first place was still, relatively, 'current.' His tenure in GFR was also new, at that time. So the question of Bruce in Ace makeup was at odds with his trajectory at the time. But now? Sure, he's going to be available for the question, because it doesn't 'mean' anything, now. It isn't relevant. Its like asking anyone else on the outside "what character would you be?" Its just bullshitting around.
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Re: Did KIϟϟ Reach Its Limit on Makeup Characters?

Post by Bruce »

Going Blind wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 1:31 am Pete has an actual identifiable character of the original 4, a cat. But Gene calling himself a Demon, Paul a Starchild and Ace a Spaceman, well they got kind of lucky because they are not identifiable as any of those characters, we identify them with that because we are told that's what there characters are and it stuck.
This aligns with my views, as well. A star over the eye, whats that? You have to have it explained to you, if a character's being assigned to it. On its own, i guess it just means he's the star of the show. Especially, since he's hogging the mic, most of the time. Silver spikes over the eyes doesn't look like anything, except ... maybe ... excited balloons in a comicbook. Even dressing up in a Hershey's Kiss costume on top of that doesn't necessarily say 'spaceman.' They aren't normally depicted that way.

And if you took Gene in his Dynasty outfit, he doesn't even look 'dark' or 'menacing.' Its just hard to place what the hell thats supposed to be. Vinnie's is like Paul's in that its just a single, common symbol just pasted over the face, somewhere. He doesn't even look like a Pharroh, he's just wearing his necklace on his face. That this would empower him with superpowers is not immediately obvious, much less logical.

Like ... what could these 'characters' ever hope to mean in the band, or indeed, at all? ZigZag Man and his ability to ... zig ... and zag ... onstage. And what single symbol was left to plant on somebody's face, otherwise? A checkmark? A pound sign? An equal sign? The makeup designs and character possibilities were in no way limitless. And they still had to agree with the established ones and not show anybody up. Paul, especially ...

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Re: Did KIϟϟ Reach Its Limit on Makeup Characters?

Post by alanrosembung »

The Warrior
The Mage
The Eternal
The Mystic
The Guardian
The Shadow
The Hero
The Seeker

That’s with twenty seconds thought. Wtf does an ankh have to do with a wizard? Or silver eyes with a space character. Nothing. So the characters and the makeup don’t have to be as literal as Peter’s cat makeup.

The four original guys were individual personalities even before they became famous. They’re archetypes. Guys like Bruce and Tommy don’t have personalities even after getting famous, so they’d be harder to come up with characters for. Bruce’s main thing is he’s a studious type musician. Thayer … a company man I guess?
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Re: Did KIϟϟ Reach Its Limit on Makeup Characters?

Post by Spiritual_Chaos »

Accepting one of them being a cat having the most busy and cluttered design ever, but at the same time saying "there are no more designs to find that are good"...
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Re: Did KIϟϟ Reach Its Limit on Makeup Characters?

Post by Spiritual_Chaos »

firekiss wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 12:43 am They didn't reach the limit of characters.

They, in their minds anyway, reached the limit if profiting off new characters
Exactly.

The adding of new characters could even have been a selling point and made sense for merch, if they could have driven that home by PR. Just look at how cartoon shows like Heman and Turtles did/does it.

New obviously doesn't beat nostalgia - if we reach the 90s and the makeup being off. But in the 80s if they could have kept their audience, I don't see why a limit would have been reached.
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Re: Did KIϟϟ Reach Its Limit on Makeup Characters?

Post by Bruce »

Spiritual_Chaos wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 5:10 am Accepting one of them being a cat having the most busy and cluttered design ever, but at the same time saying "there are no more designs to find that are good"...
If its just to go out onstage and be outrageous, then ... sure ... any and every makeup design is useable, because its transitory. Paint the Olympic rings on your face, who cares? But as a unified image, one thats intended to be marketable, then yeah ... there's definitely a limiting factor. Painting Olympic rings on your face, in that instance, suddenly becomes a problem.
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Re: Did KIϟϟ Reach Its Limit on Makeup Characters?

Post by Spiritual_Chaos »

Bruce wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 5:18 am
Spiritual_Chaos wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 5:10 am Accepting one of them being a cat having the most busy and cluttered design ever, but at the same time saying "there are no more designs to find that are good"...
If its just to go out onstage and be outrageous, then ... sure ... any and every makeup design is useable, because its transitory. Paint the Olympic rings on your face, who cares? But as a unified image, one thats intended to be marketable, then yeah ... there's definitely a limiting factor. Painting Olympic rings on your face, in that instance, suddenly becomes a problem.
In what way was the original KISS a "unified image" ?
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Re: Did KIϟϟ Reach Its Limit on Makeup Characters?

Post by Bruce »

The designs compliment eachother, rather than clash ...
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Re: Did KIϟϟ Reach Its Limit on Makeup Characters?

Post by Spiritual_Chaos »

Bruce wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 5:21 am The designs compliment eachother, rather than clash ...
In what way do they compliment eacother?
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Re: Did KIϟϟ Reach Its Limit on Makeup Characters?

Post by Bruce »

Well ... they all have things in common, don't they? The clown white, simple eye patterns ... there's a balance to the overall look. For example, Pete's got ace's silver on his nose, Paul's red lips, black eye areas, like Gene. Paul's the only one who has one eye covered, so he keeps the overall flow of their combined designs from being completely predictable and boring.
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Re: Did KIϟϟ Reach Its Limit on Makeup Characters?

Post by Spiritual_Chaos »

Bruce wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 5:30 am Well ... they all have things in common, don't they? The clown white, simple eye patterns ... there's a balance to the overall look. For example, Pete's got ace's silver on his nose, Paul's red lips, black eye areas, like Gene. Paul's the only one who has one eye covered, so he kerps the overall flow of their combined designs from being completely predictable and boring.
This is very much fabricated and arbitrary to fit a narrative.
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Re: Did KIϟϟ Reach Its Limit on Makeup Characters?

Post by Bruce »

Fabricated? Its an established visual ... its evident, what I have described.
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Re: Did KIϟϟ Reach Its Limit on Makeup Characters?

Post by Spiritual_Chaos »

Bruce wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 5:34 am Fabricated? Its an established visual ... its evident, what I have described.
Youw whole chain of arguments is.

And is no way an argument for there being "no new makeup designs possible to use".
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Re: Did KIϟϟ Reach Its Limit on Makeup Characters?

Post by alanrosembung »

Lol. If anything Paul having one eye uncovered does the opposite of unifying the four faces. You’re just making up some weird narrative to fit what the four designs happen to be.

They look good together because we’re used to seeing them together.

Replace Ace for Vinnie and you’d be saying how Vinnie’s makeup unifies the four because his is the only one with eyes uncovered and the only one with gold makeup, making each one their own unique person. Or something equally bizarre.
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Re: Did KIϟϟ Reach Its Limit on Makeup Characters?

Post by Bruce »

Spiritual_Chaos wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 5:38 am no way an argument for there being "no new makeup designs possible to use".
Any new makeup design had to do a couple of things, first:

It has to be interesting in its own right and it has to match up with the other guys. Immediately, this gets the majority of potential designs thrown out. You can't use the Union Jack. You can't use a question mark. You can't use a leopard, etc. I'm not even sure that Bob Kulick as The Skull would work, but at least there's a conversation to be had there. But the vast majority of possibilities are instantly rejected, because the new design is not a stand alone. It has to fit the established framework to remain marketable.
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Re: Did KIϟϟ Reach Its Limit on Makeup Characters?

Post by Vandelay Industries »

If Tommy was unable to continue, I'm pretty certain Bruce would be happy to step in right now, regardless if it's with either a new or old makeup design. At this point, no one's gonna give him the same flak he would've caught in 2001 or so, now that Kiss has had a comfortable seat on the heritage train for two decades. I've said before, from a critical standpoint, your sanity would probably be more intact being the guy who replaces the guy who replaced the guy, as opposed to the guy who stepped in directly.
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Re: Did KIϟϟ Reach Its Limit on Makeup Characters?

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Re: Did KIϟϟ Reach Its Limit on Makeup Characters?

Post by gene therapist »

Tommy should have become Suntan Man. Reddish-brown face, with grey accents around the eyes.

Y'know, cleaning the gutters in the California heat, working overtime and not getting enough sleep etc.. That would have been a more believable back story than maintaining Tommy ALSO came from Planet Jendell. I mean, c'mon!
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Re: Did KIϟϟ Reach Its Limit on Makeup Characters?

Post by richardsimmons »

No.
firekiss wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 12:43 am They didn't reach the limit of characters.

They, in their minds anyway, reached the limit if profiting off new characters
⬆️ Nail on the head.
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Re: Did KIϟϟ Reach Its Limit on Makeup Characters?

Post by ZachAttack »

Their designs were partially plagiarized from known Kabuki makeup designs and there's 100s more of those to steal from
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Re: Did KIϟϟ Reach Its Limit on Makeup Characters?

Post by highvoltage1969 »

Going Blind wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 1:31 am Yes, I think that Kiss did reach its limit with characters. When you think about it, only Pete has an actual identifiable character of the original 4, a cat. But Gene calling himself a Demon, Paul a Starchild and Ace a Spaceman, well they got kind of lucky because they are not identifiable as any of those characters, we identify them with that because we are told that's what there characters are and it stuck.
I agree, until Destroyer the characters didn't really exist.
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Re: Did KIϟϟ Reach Its Limit on Makeup Characters?

Post by highvoltage1969 »

Bruce wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 7:05 pm Were all of the 'good' makeup designs already used after Vinnie's came out?

I remember Bruce Kulick's 'Design My KIϟϟ Makeup Contest'. There were a surprising number of entries, and not all by old farts. In fact, a sizeable percentage was college-aged girls, if I recall. And while many had ideas, really, none of them were ... good.


BruceMakeup.jpg


None would've complimented the other KIϟϟ makeups; but Bruce did encourage these people -- rightfully so -- to just go for it. The idea was to have fun with it. Still ... it proved to me that Gene & Paul were right to not try to invent any more. There weren't any left to use.
Seems unlikely, unless you have an incredibly limited imagination.

You're right about the Bruce competition though, none of the entries worked well and the collage girls, with respect, didn't appear to have any understanding of who they were designing for.
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Re: Did KIϟϟ Reach Its Limit on Makeup Characters?

Post by highvoltage1969 »

Bruce wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 5:30 am Well ... they all have things in common, don't they? The clown white, simple eye patterns ... there's a balance to the overall look. For example, Pete's got ace's silver on his nose, Paul's red lips, black eye areas, like Gene. Paul's the only one who has one eye covered, so he keeps the overall flow of their combined designs from being completely predictable and boring.
There you go then, that's the template for additional designs. So long as you stick with the key colours on a white face there should be no problem and the possibility for a whole host of new and exciting designs.
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Re: Did KIϟϟ Reach Its Limit on Makeup Characters?

Post by 69th_B1izard »

It reached Paul’s limit!
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Re: Did KIϟϟ Reach Its Limit on Makeup Characters?

Post by sneed78 »

Phyllis Simmons wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 9:38 pm
I'll always maintain, that this final phase of KISS should have had Singer as The Hawk, and Bruce as The Sorcerer. (thereby alleviating the need for Tommy to ever have been in the band). They could have just brought Bruce back as they should have..

Doesn't matter squat now of course, but I absolutely believe this proposed version of the band would have been very successful.. They might have had a couple of good albums in them, and they wouldn't have pissed off a good % of their hardcores the way they did.. Could have picked up where Carnival left off and maybe continued as a real band and less off a Tribute/ Nostalgic act??
I agree 100%

Eric as the Hawk and Bruce as the Sorcerer and KISS continuing on without completely trying to recreate their past would’ve worked fine.

No need to become a tired, casual fan-pleasing heritage act ... the casual fans would’ve still came out for the explosions, makeup, costumes and show even with new characters.

But Gene and especially Paul love to blame KISS’ early 80’s decline on “new characters” instead of themselves and the over exposure and bad choices they made at the turn of the decade.

Imo, the fox and ankh designs were great and actually more streamlined and cohesive than the cat design (too busy) and the space face (Seismogram Man?)

Workable designs for a hawk and sorcerer could’ve been used if the effort was put in and it wasn’t just completely about nostalgia and $$$$.
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Re: Did KIϟϟ Reach Its Limit on Makeup Characters?

Post by joma5477 »

redinthesky wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 11:48 pm Wow, I like Bruce and everything and I know I've said this before, but I had no idea he had that Kiss makeup contest. He just seems so obsessed with Kiss. I wonder how the boys in Grand Funk feel about it.

You know, even though Bruce says he wouldn't have played "the Ace role" if he was asked, I'm not fully convinced anymore that Bruce would have refused the job. I used to think he'd never have done it, being in the band 12 years and on numerous gold and platinum albums, as himself. Why would he want to go from that, to portraying a former Kiss member? But I've changed on that, I'm 50/50 now towards Bruce saying yes, I'll do it. I wonder what the real reason was that G&P never asked him.
Did he? I thought I read him say while he'd have been very conflicted about it, he would have had to consider the paycheck... I suppose it's possible he said both, depending on when the question was posed to him...

Whatever the case, I'm glad he didn't because it probably would have negatively impacted my opinion of him... Although for his own financial sake, it's too bad. I'm sure it's a very good paycheck.
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Re: Did KIϟϟ Reach Its Limit on Makeup Characters?

Post by Ziggy »

highvoltage1969 wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:08 am
Going Blind wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 1:31 am Yes, I think that Kiss did reach its limit with characters. When you think about it, only Pete has an actual identifiable character of the original 4, a cat. But Gene calling himself a Demon, Paul a Starchild and Ace a Spaceman, well they got kind of lucky because they are not identifiable as any of those characters, we identify them with that because we are told that's what there characters are and it stuck.
have you never opened Alive! Evil incarnate ring a bell?

I agree, until Destroyer the characters didn't really exist.
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Re: Did KIϟϟ Reach Its Limit on Makeup Characters?

Post by Phyllis Simmons »

sneed78 wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 10:04 am
Phyllis Simmons wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 9:38 pm
I'll always maintain, that this final phase of KISS should have had Singer as The Hawk, and Bruce as The Sorcerer. (thereby alleviating the need for Tommy to ever have been in the band). They could have just brought Bruce back as they should have..

Doesn't matter squat now of course, but I absolutely believe this proposed version of the band would have been very successful.. They might have had a couple of good albums in them, and they wouldn't have pissed off a good % of their hardcores the way they did.. Could have picked up where Carnival left off and maybe continued as a real band and less off a Tribute/ Nostalgic act??
I agree 100%

Eric as the Hawk and Bruce as the Sorcerer and KISS continuing on without completely trying to recreate their past would’ve worked fine.

No need to become a tired, casual fan-pleasing heritage act ... the casual fans would’ve still came out for the explosions, makeup, costumes and show even with new characters.

But Gene and especially Paul love to blame KISS’ early 80’s decline on “new characters” instead of themselves and the over exposure and bad choices they made at the turn of the decade.

Imo, the fox and ankh designs were great and actually more streamlined and cohesive than the cat design (too busy) and the space face (Seismogram Man?)

Workable designs for a hawk and sorcerer could’ve been used if the effort was put in and it wasn’t just completely about nostalgia and $$$$.
Absolutely. 100%. And as mentioned above in this thread, other lines of merchandise with the new characters.. So Classic Kiss merch and new KISS merch - side by side and loads of it. They could have really milked the completists..

I like Eric C and Vinnie's character and make up designs a lot too. Paul and Gene seem to as well judging by the many camera shots of KISS with Vinnie and Eric in makeup in the Biography trailer. Quite a number of shots of that lineup in the short trailer; I wasn't expecting that. Gene and Paul celebrating the Ankh and the Fox? Good to see. Though I'm sure its confusing all the casuals that'll watch. "Who are they, :scratch: I thought the other two, were a guy that has cat whiskers or is a lion, and the other one was a silver faced guy or something?"
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Re: Did KIϟϟ Reach Its Limit on Makeup Characters?

Post by CStomp1 »

I still think Giraffe-Boy would have been a winner.
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Re: Did KIϟϟ Reach Its Limit on Makeup Characters?

Post by Di3go »

The Bandit make up is being available since 1973
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Re: Did KIϟϟ Reach Its Limit on Makeup Characters?

Post by cowboytoast »

redinthesky wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 11:48 pm Wow, I like Bruce and everything and I know I've said this before, but I had no idea he had that Kiss makeup contest. He just seems so obsessed with Kiss. I wonder how the boys in Grand Funk feel about it.

You know, even though Bruce says he wouldn't have played "the Ace role" if he was asked, I'm not fully convinced anymore that Bruce would have refused the job. I used to think he'd never have done it, being in the band 12 years and on numerous gold and platinum albums, as himself. Why would he want to go from that, to portraying a former Kiss member? But I've changed on that, I'm 50/50 now towards Bruce saying yes, I'll do it. I wonder what the real reason was that G&P never asked him.
I like Bruce too - but had the opportunity come up - he would've shaved off that goofy goatee and slapped on a wig (had he inherited the same hair loss gene as his brother - RIP) if he had to - it would''v e been too big of an opportunity for him to pass up on a lot of levels-

The thing is - Bruce and the guy singing for the current lineup of Grand Funk Railroad are sorta seen the same way the anti Tommy & Eric folks see them in KISS - like scabs - some shady stuff apparently went down and Mark Farner was kicked out of GFR - so there is a sect of hardcore fans that don't like that - and he wasn't some crybaby or druggie and wrote 90% of the material they still play -

If Don and Mel had real balls they would play some of the songs from their 2 post GFR band, Flint - I'd like to see that - but Mark's songs are the ones people come to hear apart from "We're An American Band" or their cover of "The Loco Motion"
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Re: Did KIϟϟ Reach Its Limit on Makeup Characters?

Post by highvoltage1969 »

Ziggy wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 11:05 am
highvoltage1969 wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:08 am
Going Blind wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 1:31 am Yes, I think that Kiss did reach its limit with characters. When you think about it, only Pete has an actual identifiable character of the original 4, a cat. But Gene calling himself a Demon, Paul a Starchild and Ace a Spaceman, well they got kind of lucky because they are not identifiable as any of those characters, we identify them with that because we are told that's what there characters are and it stuck.
have you never opened Alive! Evil incarnate ring a bell?

I agree, until Destroyer the characters didn't really exist.
Good point, ALIVE! is when we first began to see the characters.
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Re: Did KIϟϟ Reach Its Limit on Makeup Characters?

Post by alanrosembung »

Gene’s note in Alive! is more like a BDSM enthusiast than anything about a demon.
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Re: Did KIϟϟ Reach Its Limit on Makeup Characters?

Post by Forevertj »

Going Blind wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 1:31 am Yes, I think that Kiss did reach its limit with characters. When you think about it, only Pete has an actual identifiable character of the original 4, a cat. But Gene calling himself a Demon, Paul a Starchild and Ace a Spaceman, well they got kind of lucky because they are not identifiable as any of those characters, we identify them with that because we are told that's what there characters are and it stuck.


To be fair to Gene, he was first known as the Bat-Lizard. That "demon" thing only came out after God of Thunder was released.
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Re: Did KIϟϟ Reach Its Limit on Makeup Characters?

Post by Forevertj »

Spiritual_Chaos wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 5:38 am
Bruce wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 5:34 am Fabricated? Its an established visual ... its evident, what I have described.
Youw whole chain of arguments is.

And is no way an argument for there being "no new makeup designs possible to use".


*zzzzzzz*
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Re: Did KIϟϟ Reach Its Limit on Makeup Characters?

Post by curryleaf »

Phyllis Simmons wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 11:11 am I thought the other two, were a guy that has cat whiskers or is a lion,
When I was a kid, a friend of mine thought Peter was meant to be a mouse.