KISS, Parliament, The Deep, Angel

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KISS, Parliament, The Deep, Angel

Post by In the Suds »

What a lineup.

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Re: KISS, Parliament, The Deep, Angel

Post by rwgriffith »

Very cool picture...
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Re: KISS, Parliament, The Deep, Angel

Post by Eddie Van Hazel »

Nice shot. Never saw that one before.
The albums from Casablanca received a lot of play in my household as a kid.

Speaking of "The Deep", I never understood why "K.M.T.P" was never distributed by Casablanca Filmworks..(?)
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Re: KISS, Parliament, The Deep, Angel

Post by jkiss »

Eddie Van Hazel wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 3:59 pm Nice shot. Never saw that one before.
The albums from Casablanca received a lot of play in my household as a kid.

Speaking of "The Deep", I never understood why "K.M.T.P" was never distributed by Casablanca Filmworks..(?)
No need for Casablanca Filmworks to. And all mostly something Bill worked-out separately from Neil. Although, it might have worked-out for the better (or better for Bill) that CF actually did. However of course, still hard to say if that would've made all that much of a difference. Perhaps, the overall verdict would've been roughly the same.

🤔
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Re: KISS, Parliament, The Deep, Angel

Post by Eddie Van Hazel »

Makes sense.
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Re: KISS, Parliament, The Deep, Angel

Post by redinthesky »

Great shot. But I have to admit, I think Angel is horrible. Talented guys without a doubt, but the songs just sucked. I can't believe no one at Casablanca could see that, or hear that. I do like "The Winter/Christmas Song" though. But I really find them unlistenable. And even besides that, their whole presentation was ridiculous, especially that opening. Once again just my worthless opinion.
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Re: KISS, Parliament, The Deep, Angel

Post by In the Suds »

I agree. Angel was pretty awful.
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Re: KISS, Parliament, The Deep, Angel

Post by Tbond »

I like the first Angel album OK, a couple of tunes from Helluva Band, but yeah, overall, their albums were just stuffed with bad songs.
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Re: KISS, Parliament, The Deep, Angel

Post by Terry Zeppelin »

Eddie Van Hazel wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 3:59 pm Nice shot. Never saw that one before.
The albums from Casablanca received a lot of play in my household as a kid.

Speaking of "The Deep", I never understood why "K.M.T.P" was never distributed by Casablanca Filmworks..(?)

You know what....i was thinking the same thing the other day. That's weird. Ya...if Casablanca was so enamoured with the filmworks aspect, why wasn't Phantom produced by Filmworks???
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Re: KISS, Parliament, The Deep, Angel

Post by Lofton23rdSt »

I don't like Angel either.
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Re: KISS, Parliament, The Deep, Angel

Post by Terry Zeppelin »

In the Suds wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 6:08 pm I agree. Angel was pretty awful.
You better not let Gordon G.G. Gerbert hear you say that. He'll stalk you for life. Or even right a nasty, smutty tell all about you :(
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Re: KISS, Parliament, The Deep, Angel

Post by Eddie Van Hazel »

I liked some of the "White Hot" album, but I was never big into Angel....(Starz either).

I think Casablanca wanted to cash in on Angel's "pretty boy" looks and image...
..they wanted to scoop up that young female audience and get them buy the Angel albums.
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Re: KISS, Parliament, The Deep, Angel

Post by vinniestkulick »

Can't believe the Angel bashing, here... I saw them twice (in '78 and '79) before I ever saw Kiss once (on the Dynasty tour) and they were fantastic. So much so, Kiss were a let down by the time I saw them.

Their 1st 2 albums are pretty great prog rock (Yes and or Pink Floyd leaning): the third album (On Earth As It Is In Heaven) was frikkin produced by Eddie Kramer... (more so Boston meets Queen meets Kiss); White Hot (their fourth) is quintessential Angel (power pomp, I'd call it); and Sinful was closer to power pop... I'll post one song from each, below, shortly... completely killer stuff.

Third album... produced by Eddie Kramer in '77:



Fourth Album "White Hot"... 1978:



Fifth album "Sinful"... 1979... go ahead and compare it to Dynasty, I dare ya!

Last edited by vinniestkulick on Tue May 18, 2021 1:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: KISS, Parliament, The Deep, Angel

Post by KISSTRONAUT »

What a cool stretch of time that was.
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Re: KISS, Parliament, The Deep, Angel

Post by Mikel Black »

redinthesky wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 5:54 pm Great shot. But I have to admit, I think Angel is horrible. Talented guys without a doubt, but the songs just sucked. I can't believe no one at Casablanca could see that, or hear that. I do like "The Winter/Christmas Song" though. But I really find them unlistenable. And even besides that, their whole presentation was ridiculous, especially that opening. Once again just my worthless opinion.
i thought it was just me. I really wanted to like Angel, but the songs just didn't grab me.
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Re: KISS, Parliament, The Deep, Angel

Post by caligari »

What about DONNA SUMMER?
I mean, She’s standing right there!
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Re: KISS, Parliament, The Deep, Angel

Post by caligari »

... and who’s album cover is that in the picture frame?
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Re: KISS, Parliament, The Deep, Angel

Post by Wiseacre »

ANGEL were SUCH a great band. I’m guessing (hoping) most of the hate is younger KISS fans.

I’ve been a major KISS fan since ‘77 and they they had it “all” with the image, makeup, show, etc, but pound for pound ANGEL were a far better band (aside from ACE’s solos). Better songwriting, better drummer and definitely better vocalist. Frank’s voice rules. Barry would have been a perfect replacement for Peter if timing and being “known” wasn’t an issue. I liked Eric, but Barry was rock solid and would have kept a bit more of the old school feel from the early days.

1st & 2nd albums are borderline proggy, 3rd and 4th are fantastic sister albums with tons of great hard rock/pop tunes. The last, and my least favorite, went a bit to synth heavy, IMO, but has lots of great songs. And don’t forget the killer live album (one of my faves).

I think ANGEL were just in the wrong place at the wrong time time. They straddled the throw back sound of the early ‘70s in the beginning and later were too early for what would become “hair metal”. “Tower” was a staple on our classic rock station from the beginning and I got into them via my older brother and have loved them since about 1978. I only wish I’d have been old enough to see them live in the ‘70s.

Best.Logo.Ever

https://www.logolynx.com/topic/angel+ro ... id=1&pid=2
Last edited by Wiseacre on Tue May 18, 2021 9:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: KISS, Parliament, The Deep, Angel

Post by Coventry1973 »

Never got into Angel but that is a very cool logo. Reads the same backwards
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Re: KISS, Parliament, The Deep, Angel

Post by In the Suds »

It's cool that people love Angel so much. I shouldn't say they're awful. Maybe I just don't get them would be a better way to put it.


As for the horse portrait I don't know what's going on with that. It's such a strange scene all around.


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Re: KISS, Parliament, The Deep, Angel

Post by highvoltage1969 »

In the Suds wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 6:08 pm I agree. Angel was pretty awful.
I don't think they're awful but I wanted to like them much more than I did.

They looked great though, as did Parliament who were insane and put on a great live show.
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Re: KISS, Parliament, The Deep, Angel

Post by Rip & Destroy »

Casablanca had another band on their roster called 'Stallion' that released 2 albums in 1976-77. I'm guessing the framed horse picture might be a reference to them?

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Re: KISS, Parliament, The Deep, Angel

Post by vinniestkulick »

Wiseacre wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 7:38 am ANGEL were SUCH a great band. I’m guessing (hoping) most of the hate is younger KISS fans.

I’ve been a major KISS fan since ‘77 and they they had it “all” with the image, makeup, show, etc, but pound for pound ANGEL were a far better band (aside from ACE’s solos). Better songwriting, better drummer and definitely better vocalist. Frank’s voice rules. Barry would have been a perfect replacement for Peter if timing and being “known” wasn’t an issue. I liked Eric, but Barry was rock solid and would have kept a bit more of the old school feel from the early days.

1st & 2nd albums are borderline proggy, 3rd and 4th are fantastic sister albums with tons of great hard rock/pop tunes. The last, and my least favorite, went a bit to synth heavy, IMO, but has lots of great songs. And don’t forget the killer live album (one of my faves).

I think ANGEL were just in the wrong place at the wrong time time. They straddled the throw back sound of the early ‘70s in the beginning and later were too early for what would become “hair metal”. “Tower” was a staple on our classic rock station from the beginning and I got into them via my older brother and have loved them since about 1978. I only wish I’d have been old enough to see them live in the ‘70s.

Best.Logo.Ever

https://www.logolynx.com/topic/angel+ro ... id=1&pid=2
Agree w/all of this... rumor(s) had it that Paul almost used Barry Brandt on his solo album.
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Re: KISS, Parliament, The Deep, Angel

Post by redinthesky »

vinniestkulick wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 1:47 pm
Wiseacre wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 7:38 am ANGEL were SUCH a great band. I’m guessing (hoping) most of the hate is younger KISS fans.

I’ve been a major KISS fan since ‘77 and they they had it “all” with the image, makeup, show, etc, but pound for pound ANGEL were a far better band (aside from ACE’s solos). Better songwriting, better drummer and definitely better vocalist. Frank’s voice rules. Barry would have been a perfect replacement for Peter if timing and being “known” wasn’t an issue. I liked Eric, but Barry was rock solid and would have kept a bit more of the old school feel from the early days.

1st & 2nd albums are borderline proggy, 3rd and 4th are fantastic sister albums with tons of great hard rock/pop tunes. The last, and my least favorite, went a bit to synth heavy, IMO, but has lots of great songs. And don’t forget the killer live album (one of my faves).

I think ANGEL were just in the wrong place at the wrong time time. They straddled the throw back sound of the early ‘70s in the beginning and later were too early for what would become “hair metal”. “Tower” was a staple on our classic rock station from the beginning and I got into them via my older brother and have loved them since about 1978. I only wish I’d have been old enough to see them live in the ‘70s.

Best.Logo.Ever

https://www.logolynx.com/topic/angel+ro ... id=1&pid=2
Agree w/all of this... rumor(s) had it that Paul almost used Barry Brandt on his solo album.
We all know how wikipedia can be both great and suck, but on Punky's page, it says he was asked to be in Kiss, and Punky turned Kiss down? Is this true? And if so, when was it, 1982?
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Re: KISS, Parliament, The Deep, Angel

Post by Ozone1978 »

Angel White Hot and Sinful are GREAT albums!!!😎😎😎
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Re: KISS, Parliament, The Deep, Angel

Post by caligari »

Wiseacre wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 7:38 am ANGEL were SUCH a great band. I’m guessing (hoping) most of the hate is younger KISS fans.

I’ve been a major KISS fan since ‘77 and they they had it “all” with the image, makeup, show, etc, but pound for pound ANGEL were a far better band (aside from ACE’s solos). Better songwriting, better drummer and definitely better vocalist. Frank’s voice rules. Barry would have been a perfect replacement for Peter if timing and being “known” wasn’t an issue. I liked Eric, but Barry was rock solid and would have kept a bit more of the old school feel from the early days.

1st & 2nd albums are borderline proggy, 3rd and 4th are fantastic sister albums with tons of great hard rock/pop tunes. The last, and my least favorite, went a bit to synth heavy, IMO, but has lots of great songs. And don’t forget the killer live album (one of my faves).

I think ANGEL were just in the wrong place at the wrong time time. They straddled the throw back sound of the early ‘70s in the beginning and later were too early for what would become “hair metal”. “Tower” was a staple on our classic rock station from the beginning and I got into them via my older brother and have loved them since about 1978. I only wish I’d have been old enough to see them live in the ‘70s.

Best.Logo.Ever

https://www.logolynx.com/topic/angel+ro ... id=1&pid=2
I pretty much agree with most of what you said.
My question is:
Where did you grow up where they would play TOWER on a radio station back then?
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Re: KISS, Parliament, The Deep, Angel

Post by caligari »

redinthesky wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 1:52 pm
vinniestkulick wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 1:47 pm
Wiseacre wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 7:38 am ANGEL were SUCH a great band. I’m guessing (hoping) most of the hate is younger KISS fans.

I’ve been a major KISS fan since ‘77 and they they had it “all” with the image, makeup, show, etc, but pound for pound ANGEL were a far better band (aside from ACE’s solos). Better songwriting, better drummer and definitely better vocalist. Frank’s voice rules. Barry would have been a perfect replacement for Peter if timing and being “known” wasn’t an issue. I liked Eric, but Barry was rock solid and would have kept a bit more of the old school feel from the early days.

1st & 2nd albums are borderline proggy, 3rd and 4th are fantastic sister albums with tons of great hard rock/pop tunes. The last, and my least favorite, went a bit to synth heavy, IMO, but has lots of great songs. And don’t forget the killer live album (one of my faves).

I think ANGEL were just in the wrong place at the wrong time time. They straddled the throw back sound of the early ‘70s in the beginning and later were too early for what would become “hair metal”. “Tower” was a staple on our classic rock station from the beginning and I got into them via my older brother and have loved them since about 1978. I only wish I’d have been old enough to see them live in the ‘70s.

Best.Logo.Ever

https://www.logolynx.com/topic/angel+ro ... id=1&pid=2
Agree w/all of this... rumor(s) had it that Paul almost used Barry Brandt on his solo album.
We all know how wikipedia can be both great and suck, but on Punky's page, it says he was asked to be in Kiss, and Punky turned Kiss down? Is this true? And if so, when was it, 1982?
Yes. But it’s not as straight as that.
You can find it in any of his interview from YouTube a little prior to the release of his solo album.

He tried out
They offered
He said he was playing with Greg in a new band
(And would have to talk to him first as a courtesy).
Because they misunderstood him & he did not jump at the offer they took it as a “no” and walked out of the room.
Barry Levine told Punky that night they were also gonna offer him a considerable amount of points on albums if he joined.
Punky would have joined. Gene and Paul walked out without discussing anything with him.
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Re: KISS, Parliament, The Deep, Angel

Post by In the Suds »

The word "pomp" came up earlier in the thread and I think that is really my thing with Angel. I don't like pomp rock or anything related to the kind of sound. No Kansas, no Styx, no Angel. tbh I don't even really like Queen all that much although they do have a bunch of undeniable songs. Overall, though, I like my rock pomp free. No pomp for me.
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Re: KISS, Parliament, The Deep, Angel

Post by Wiseacre »

As much as I love KISS and ANGEL, I think Punky would have been a bad choice for KISS, especially in 1982. Punky absolutely had the right look for KISS but they obviously were looking for more or an '80s-style shedder by then, which Punky just isn't. While his style would have helped them stay a bit more connected with the past, Punky's solos just never grabbed me for whatever reason and he doesn't seem like the the kind of guy who would play ACE's stuff note for note. Weird tone and phrasing was just never on the level of ACE's solos, even though he is a much more rounded and talented player overall.

Also should mention that Lydia dated original ANGEL bassist Mickie Jones after she and Peter split up in 1979.
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Re: KISS, Parliament, The Deep, Angel

Post by Wiseacre »

In the Suds wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 3:14 pm The word "pomp" came up earlier in the thread and I think that is really my thing with Angel. I don't like pomp rock or anything related to the kind of sound. No Kansas, no Styx, no Angel. tbh I don't even really like Queen all that much although they do have a bunch of undeniable songs. Overall, though, I like my rock pomp free. No pomp for me.
The big difference between KISS and ANGEL musically (Aside from piano/keyboards) is that ANGEL had a lot more of the old early '70s glam sound mixed into their music (Sweet, Slade, Bowie, T. REX, early Rod Stewart) whereas KISS were more straight ahead RnR. KISS came out of that scene, but you don't hear much in their music (ACE more than anyone).

Their excellent cover of MOTT THE HOOPLE'S "All the Young Dudes" demonstrates how well this style fit the band.
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Re: KISS, Parliament, The Deep, Angel

Post by gothunder »

ANGELs great!!!! Some of it has a Fastway vibe to it imo.
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Re: KISS, Parliament, The Deep, Angel

Post by redinthesky »

caligari wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 2:55 pm
redinthesky wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 1:52 pm
We all know how wikipedia can be both great and suck, but on Punky's page, it says he was asked to be in Kiss, and Punky turned Kiss down? Is this true? And if so, when was it, 1982?
Yes. But it’s not as straight as that.
You can find it in any of his interview from YouTube a little prior to the release of his solo album.

He tried out
They offered
He said he was playing with Greg in a new band
(And would have to talk to him first as a courtesy).
Because they misunderstood him & he did not jump at the offer they took it as a “no” and walked out of the room.
Barry Levine told Punky that night they were also gonna offer him a considerable amount of points on albums if he joined.
Punky would have joined. Gene and Paul walked out without discussing anything with him.

Wow that is interesting stuff thank you....I wonder, given how G&P feel about things, if they would have changed Punky's name.
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Re: KISS, Parliament, The Deep, Angel

Post by Wiseacre »

redinthesky wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 3:55 pm Wow that is interesting stuff thank you....I wonder, given how G&P feel about things, if they would have changed Punky's name.
It would have been pretty tough to hide the hair. ;-) I think they would have have had to consider ditching the makeup if they had gone with anyone known. ANGEL weren't huge, but it would have taken 5 minutes to figure out who Punky was, especially since they had tons of crossover fans.

Anyone remember when magazines published stuff speculating Eric Carr was really Eric Carmen? He looked the part and the name thing was obvious, but he played just about everything but the drums in the Raspberries before going solo.
Image

The way Punky told the story about G&P wasn't that there was a misunderstanding, really. He had just started a new project and didn't want to just leave everyone high and dry and when he didn't instantly shit himself and fall on his knees and kiss their ring they got insulted and basically said "forget it". I don't think Punky would have had the right attitude for G&P anyway. They were wanting someone to STFU and play.

I finally got to see ANGEL a few years back when Frank and Punky toured with ACE and they sounded great.
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