Thank you Robin Zander! (Kind of calls out Paul in recent interview)

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Re: Thank you Robin Zander! (Kind of calls out Paul in recent interview)

Post by BlackDiamond67 »

TheSpoiler wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:37 am
KingOfHearts89 wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 12:03 pm Doesn't he actually support Paul then, if doing music is for the artist then Paul is right for doing Soul Station?
Completely. Zander is saying that CT make new music for themselves, and that's 100% what Paul Stanley has just done.
That’s a fair and logical point.
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Re: Thank you Robin Zander! (Kind of calls out Paul in recent interview)

Post by ftjr1974 »

FiveCardStud wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:22 am
ftjr1974 wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 7:23 am
Chaim Wigz wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 5:20 am
Velvis wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 5:03 am
Admin wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:02 am Enough of the "Bert" crap.
Agreed. It is not funny and really worn out.
I disagree. I think it’s hilarious!
Well I think it's funny and why I made the comment in my initial post. I was trying to be humorous and as far as I know it is part of Paul's real name. But apparently I'm not sensitive enough to Paul's diehard fans and for that I apologize. I do like your profile photo!
It’s more the incessant lame jokes you all bring. We all agree they were funny at first but as you guys got laughs you were fed with confidence to make more Paul jokes and honestly it’s really degrading to KISS fans as a whole as the whole mother’s basement line seems truer than ever for most
I'm 46, married, I have a college degree, make a good living and I'm an upstanding citizen. The mom's basement thing certainly doesn't apply to me. lol
Last edited by ftjr1974 on Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Thank you Robin Zander! (Kind of calls out Paul in recent interview)

Post by ftjr1974 »

FiveCardStud wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:22 am
ftjr1974 wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 7:23 am
Chaim Wigz wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 5:20 am
Velvis wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 5:03 am
Admin wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:02 am Enough of the "Bert" crap.
Agreed. It is not funny and really worn out.
I disagree. I think it’s hilarious!
Well I think it's funny and why I made the comment in my initial post. I was trying to be humorous and as far as I know it is part of Paul's real name. But apparently I'm not sensitive enough to Paul's diehard fans and for that I apologize. I do like your profile photo!
It’s more the incessant lame jokes you all bring. We all agree they were funny at first but as you guys got laughs you were fed with confidence to make more Paul jokes and honestly it’s really degrading to KISS fans as a whole as the whole mother’s basement line seems truer than ever for most
I also disagree with your opinion that making jokes about Kiss is "degrading" to Kiss fans. My goodness this world is soft.
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Re: Thank you Robin Zander! (Kind of calls out Paul in recent interview)

Post by nibbler1982 »

Den Dennis wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 3:00 am
nibbler1982 wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 3:34 pm I’ll make it easy for you...

I believe Cheap Trick needs the income from new albums, however small that figure may be.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Your laughter falls flat.

Some of the boxscores I’ve presented are comparable to Ace Frehley’s...and he’s doing so well he had to move in with a fan.

Now that I think about it, in Cheap Trick the money is divided FOUR ways. They tried to kick Bun E out but a contract is a contract. He didn’t sell his rights like Ace & Peter did. Bun’s still getting paid!

Maybe you’re laying at the paltry figures? That would be very nice if so.
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Re: Thank you Robin Zander! (Kind of calls out Paul in recent interview)

Post by jr196301 »

In all fairness to Paul's point, KISS is not Cheap trick. Cheap Trick is the greatest bar band in the history of rock and roll. They are all about their music and can set up shop in just about any town on a moment's notice. They are warhorses that just keep going and going and are one of the greatest rock bands even now doing what they do. KISS is all about the show. They are not about being a band. They are also all about ending as a touring/performing entity as we know it. There is nothing a new album can do for KISS except remind people that it will never be as good as Destroyer, Creatures, or RARO. There is NO benefit to bring back Ezrin to produce a new album of "who cares material" for the few fans that will buy it. And as much as I like Cheap Trick, I'd rather hear Dream Police or Surrender. I couldn't even tell you of any new song they do that is an instant classic. So Zander is right when he says they are doing new music just for THEM and not for us. KISS doesn't need to do new music for themselves.
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Re: Thank you Robin Zander! (Kind of calls out Paul in recent interview)

Post by Grand Classic »

jr196301 wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:55 am
In all fairness to Paul's point, KISS is not Cheap trick. Cheap Trick is the greatest bar band in the history of rock and roll. They are all about their music and can set up shop in just about any town on a moment's notice. They are warhorses that just keep going and going and are one of the greatest rock bands even now doing what they do. KISS is all about the show. They are not about being a band. They are also all about ending as a touring/performing entity as we know it. There is nothing a new album can do for KISS except remind people that it will never be as good as Destroyer, Creatures, or RARO. There is NO benefit to bring back Ezrin to produce a new album of "who cares material" for the few fans that will buy it. And as much as I like Cheap Trick, I'd rather hear Dream Police or Surrender. I couldn't even tell you of any new song they do that is an instant classic. So Zander is right when he says they are doing new music just for THEM and not for us. KISS doesn't need to do new music for themselves.
The problem with this is that KISS are lazy when it comes to making albums.

If KISS really spent the time and effort with the goal to make the best album possible and bring in the best people to help them achieve that - I am talking taking a whole year or more to write and record - people would sit up and take notice if the results delivered.

Albums like Sonic Boom and Monster are not going to achieve this and on top of that, many KISS fans don't like them either. Paul Stanley isn't a producer and is the last person who should have final say.

While AC/DC is always going to sell more than KISS, Power Up is different in that people are calling it their best album since Flick Of The Switch and it is getting far more praise than just the average new AC/DC album.

If KISS was to make a new album - that's the response they need to aim for. This is their best album since Creatures or LIU and have it actually be true.
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Re: Thank you Robin Zander! (Kind of calls out Paul in recent interview)

Post by Grizzly Adams »

ftjr1974 wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:47 am I also disagree with your opinion that making jokes about Kiss is "degrading" to Kiss fans. My goodness this world is soft.
Paul Stanley walks into a bar...
The bartender says, "What'll you have?"
Paul Stanley replies, "Before I saw Led Zeppelin, I saw Otis Redding and Solomon Burke."
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Re: Thank you Robin Zander! (Kind of calls out Paul in recent interview)

Post by Shane_Penney »

Let's simplify this

KISS are a band.

They have provided many of us with great amounts of joy

They can stop recording and releasing new material whenever they want. It's THEIR band. They can release coffee. It's their choice. I won't buy it. That's my choice.

They owe us nothing. If we buy a ticket we get a concert. If we buy music, we own the music.

Nothing lasts forever.

Be thankful for what we have already received because...yet again...they owe us nothing, and we shouldn't expect it. They are senior citizens, not 40 years old.

There may be unreleased material coming. That would be fantastic. But they don't owe it to us.

That's all.
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Re: Thank you Robin Zander! (Kind of calls out Paul in recent interview)

Post by Bruce »

Grizzly Adams wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:23 am Paul Stanley walks into a bar...
The bartender says, "What'll you have?"
Paul Stanley replies, "Before I saw Led Zeppelin, I saw Otis Redding and Solomon Burke."
What does Eric Singer call a laughing piano?
A Yamaha-hahahahaha ...
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Re: Thank you Robin Zander! (Kind of calls out Paul in recent interview)

Post by Grizzly Adams »

Bruce wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:33 am
Grizzly Adams wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:23 am Paul Stanley walks into a bar...
The bartender says, "What'll you have?"
Paul Stanley replies, "Before I saw Led Zeppelin, I saw Otis Redding and Solomon Burke."
What does Eric Singer call a laughing piano?
A Yamaha-hahahahaha ...
In the case of Eric Singer, I'm not sure if the piano is laughing with him or laughing at him.
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Re: Thank you Robin Zander! (Kind of calls out Paul in recent interview)

Post by Bruce »

Wouldn't it be something to see Singer stop mid-performance and say, "ok -- stop! STOP!! -- I'm not doing this, anymore. I can't play piano, folks -- i don't even want to learn how to play piano!"
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Re: Thank you Robin Zander! (Kind of calls out Paul in recent interview)

Post by BC Witch »

I'm not sure that Cheap Trick is making that much cash from new music. They certainly don't NEED to make new music to make a living.

Those gig attendance figures are very interesting for sure but don't forget that Cheap Trick and their agent will be making sure they get a guaranteed fee plus a percentage of ticket sales on any gigs they do and obviously that guarantee will be enough for them to all make a decent living. If ticket sales are low the promoter is the one taking a bath, not the band. Add in merch sales and I'm sure they're making a tidy yearly wage, not to mention Rick Nielsen's continuing royalty cheques for songs like 'Surrender' and 'I Want You To Want Me'.

Of course Cheap Trick is nowhere near a big a draw as KISS in 2021 but I doubt they're in a position where they have to make new music to make ends meet. I believe they do it because they love it. Same as Alice Cooper.
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Re: Thank you Robin Zander! (Kind of calls out Paul in recent interview)

Post by Grand Classic »

Shane_Penney wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:26 am Let's simplify this

KISS are a band.

They have provided many of us with great amounts of joy

They can stop recording and releasing new material whenever they want. It's THEIR band. They can release coffee. It's their choice. I won't buy it. That's my choice.

They owe us nothing. If we buy a ticket we get a concert. If we buy music, we own the music.

Nothing lasts forever.

Be thankful for what we have already received because...yet again...they owe us nothing, and we shouldn't expect it. They are senior citizens, not 40 years old.

There may be unreleased material coming. That would be fantastic. But they don't owe it to us.

That's all.
As someone else pointed out - KISS blaming the fans or the music industry for why the don't make new music is bullshit.

If KISS are not inspired to make new music like MANY other long time bands/artists still are....you know because they are musicians, then fine - say that and then shut the fuck up. This is all on them. Paul and Gene need to stop pointing fingers.
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Re: Thank you Robin Zander! (Kind of calls out Paul in recent interview)

Post by jr196301 »

Grand Classic wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:19 am
jr196301 wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:55 am
In all fairness to Paul's point, KISS is not Cheap trick. Cheap Trick is the greatest bar band in the history of rock and roll. They are all about their music and can set up shop in just about any town on a moment's notice. They are warhorses that just keep going and going and are one of the greatest rock bands even now doing what they do. KISS is all about the show. They are not about being a band. They are also all about ending as a touring/performing entity as we know it. There is nothing a new album can do for KISS except remind people that it will never be as good as Destroyer, Creatures, or RARO. There is NO benefit to bring back Ezrin to produce a new album of "who cares material" for the few fans that will buy it. And as much as I like Cheap Trick, I'd rather hear Dream Police or Surrender. I couldn't even tell you of any new song they do that is an instant classic. So Zander is right when he says they are doing new music just for THEM and not for us. KISS doesn't need to do new music for themselves.
The problem with this is that KISS are lazy when it comes to making albums.

If KISS really spent the time and effort with the goal to make the best album possible and bring in the best people to help them achieve that - I am talking taking a whole year or more to write and record - people would sit up and take notice if the results delivered.

Albums like Sonic Boom and Monster are not going to achieve this and on top of that, many KISS fans don't like them either. Paul Stanley isn't a producer and is the last person who should have final say.

While AC/DC is always going to sell more than KISS, Power Up is different in that people are calling it their best album since Flick Of The Switch and it is getting far more praise than just the average new AC/DC album.

If KISS was to make a new album - that's the response they need to aim for. This is their best album since Creatures or LIU and have it actually be true.
Like I said, they have no incentive. It's not laziness as much as it is Time versus Benefit. They could record the next Detroit Rock City. Who cares. Nobody cares what this or any other band that has 70+ year old members does as far as new material. Nobody. Not McCartney, not The Who, and not the Stones. Nobody cares what ANY classic rock band does. AC/DC had mild interest because it reunited the group we knew. Nothing memorable came out of those sessions. It was fine. But who cares. Cheap Trick gets this. They do it for themselves. They are not retiring. KISS is ending. They don't care to invest any time into it if they are done. Maybe they'll have a change of heart. If they do, it still won't matter. You're trying to justify something that nobody cares about in the first place. Nobody. Not KISS. Not the fans.
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Re: Thank you Robin Zander! (Kind of calls out Paul in recent interview)

Post by Grand Classic »

BC Witch wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:44 am I'm not sure that Cheap Trick is making that much cash from new music. They certainly don't NEED to make new music to make a living.

Those gig attendance figures are very interesting for sure but don't forget that Cheap Trick and their agent will be making sure they get a guaranteed fee plus a percentage of ticket sales on any gigs they do and obviously that guarantee will be enough for them to all make a decent living. If ticket sales are low the promoter is the one taking a bath, not the band. Add in merch sales and I'm sure they're making a tidy yearly wage, not to mention Rick Nielsen's continuing royalty cheques for songs like 'Surrender' and 'I Want You To Want Me'.

Of course Cheap Trick is nowhere near a big a draw as KISS in 2021 but I doubt they're in a position where they have to make new music to make ends meet. I believe they do it because they love it. Same as Alice Cooper.
Nibbs is talking out of his ass. Cheap Trick isn't making money from album sales, because they don't sell well. Just like Paul won't be getting any big checks for Soul Station. He totally lost money on that. I am sure getting a few thousands dollars isn't what motivates Cheap Trick to make new albums.
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Re: Thank you Robin Zander! (Kind of calls out Paul in recent interview)

Post by Shane_Penney »

Grand Classic wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:46 am
Shane_Penney wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:26 am Let's simplify this

KISS are a band.

They have provided many of us with great amounts of joy

They can stop recording and releasing new material whenever they want. It's THEIR band. They can release coffee. It's their choice. I won't buy it. That's my choice.

They owe us nothing. If we buy a ticket we get a concert. If we buy music, we own the music.

Nothing lasts forever.

Be thankful for what we have already received because...yet again...they owe us nothing, and we shouldn't expect it. They are senior citizens, not 40 years old.

There may be unreleased material coming. That would be fantastic. But they don't owe it to us.

That's all.
As someone else pointed out - KISS blaming the fans or the music industry for why the don't make new music is bullshit.

If KISS are not inspired to make new music like MANY other long time bands/artists still are....you know because they are musicians, then fine - say that and then shut the fuck up. This is all on them. Paul and Gene need to stop pointing fingers.
If you pay too much attention to Gene and Paul, then that's on you. I haven't paid too much attention to them in 15 years. Maybe that's why I seem happier with them, and their output. Everything since 2000 has been a bonus for me.
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Re: Thank you Robin Zander! (Kind of calls out Paul in recent interview)

Post by Shane_Penney »

To continue with my previous posts, I believed they were done in 2000. I was happy when they weren't. But, everything said since since then was taken with a grain of salt. Everything released since then was a bonus.

The 10 shows that I saw from 2009-2019
KISSOLOGY 1-3
The 2 studio albums
Soul Station

ALL bonus...

I have not once visited Paul's Twitter feed, or Gene's, or Ace's...or anyones. Everything that I hear is second hand. I pay no attention to the day to day ramblings. I am a massive fan of their music (of all eras), not follower of their viewpoints and daily lives.
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Re: Thank you Robin Zander! (Kind of calls out Paul in recent interview)

Post by Grand Classic »

jr196301 wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:47 am
Grand Classic wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:19 am
jr196301 wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:55 am
In all fairness to Paul's point, KISS is not Cheap trick. Cheap Trick is the greatest bar band in the history of rock and roll. They are all about their music and can set up shop in just about any town on a moment's notice. They are warhorses that just keep going and going and are one of the greatest rock bands even now doing what they do. KISS is all about the show. They are not about being a band. They are also all about ending as a touring/performing entity as we know it. There is nothing a new album can do for KISS except remind people that it will never be as good as Destroyer, Creatures, or RARO. There is NO benefit to bring back Ezrin to produce a new album of "who cares material" for the few fans that will buy it. And as much as I like Cheap Trick, I'd rather hear Dream Police or Surrender. I couldn't even tell you of any new song they do that is an instant classic. So Zander is right when he says they are doing new music just for THEM and not for us. KISS doesn't need to do new music for themselves.
The problem with this is that KISS are lazy when it comes to making albums.

If KISS really spent the time and effort with the goal to make the best album possible and bring in the best people to help them achieve that - I am talking taking a whole year or more to write and record - people would sit up and take notice if the results delivered.

Albums like Sonic Boom and Monster are not going to achieve this and on top of that, many KISS fans don't like them either. Paul Stanley isn't a producer and is the last person who should have final say.

While AC/DC is always going to sell more than KISS, Power Up is different in that people are calling it their best album since Flick Of The Switch and it is getting far more praise than just the average new AC/DC album.

If KISS was to make a new album - that's the response they need to aim for. This is their best album since Creatures or LIU and have it actually be true.
Like I said, they have no incentive. It's not laziness as much as it is Time versus Benefit. They could record the next Detroit Rock City. Who cares. Nobody cares what this or any other band that has 70+ year old members does as far as new material. Nobody. Not McCartney, not The Who, and not the Stones. Nobody cares what ANY classic rock band does. AC/DC had mild interest because it reunited the group we knew. Nothing memorable came out of those sessions. It was fine. But who cares. Cheap Trick gets this. They do it for themselves. They are not retiring. KISS is ending. They don't care to invest any time into it if they are done. Maybe they'll have a change of heart. If they do, it still won't matter. You're trying to justify something that nobody cares about in the first place. Nobody. Not KISS. Not the fans.
I disagree.

When a hard rock band truly makes a great album - the people who would buy such an album completely acknowledge it as well as critics. Judas Priest got the same sort of reaction from Firepower as AC/DC got. Best album is a VERY long time and the hard rock community gushing over it.

KISS are lazy and don't want to do the work these other bands have done. Keep in mind we are talking about a band that pocketed the advance for Hot In The Shade - money meant to spent to make the album as great as it can be and instead release demos to the world.

KISS never really took album making seriously. Even in the 70's.
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Re: Thank you Robin Zander! (Kind of calls out Paul in recent interview)

Post by So Cruel »

nibbler1982 wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 3:37 pm
In the Suds wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:54 pm
nibbler1982 wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 1:53 pm One of my favorite concerts of theirs was about 20 years ago. It was at Town Hall in Manhattan and I was surprised with an all acoustic show. I had no clue when I bought the seats but was tickled pink nonetheless. Great night.
I didn't notice you'd mentioned this. I was at this show show too. I also saw them the next night at Irving Plaza. That was a standard electric show and also great but the acoustic show was really something special.
It was a great show Brother Suds, no two ways about it.

I hate to sound like a mark, but I felt it was something special too.

I L-O-V-E Town Hall. Awesome venue. My favorite Town Hall story...

I'm at the Streisand show at Madison Square Garden 2006. I've got killer seats, sixth row center. In my section is Hillary Clinton and gay Soprano's mafioso Joe Gannascoli. Anyway, halfway through her set she has an intermission, the band Il Divo comes on. It's a picture perfect time to hit the bathroom. On my way to the head I bump into Lindsey Buckingham. I had just seen him the night before at Town Hall and got into a huge fight with one of his roadies when I got my hands on a setlist...police and everything involved. I have a deep hookup in Midtown South, unless I kill somebody I'm pretty much untouchable with the NYPD. So I'm taking to Lindsey and were laughing our heads of about the whole incident and he's completely, and genuinely apologetic about his overzealous employee. I then ask him if he's going to the Iron Maiden show at Nassau Coliseum the next night. He say's it's not his scene. Going into his show I was wondering if anybody other than myself was doing the triple threat of Buckingham/Streisand/Maiden three days in a row. He says, "It's a safe bet you're the only one." Lindsey's a funny guy. ANYWAY while we're carrying on we both walk back into the VIP area backstage to the "cool bathrooms". I guess security thought we were together. Who do I bump into? None other THAN BARBRA HERSELF!!! She's drinking a bottle of water and chatting it up with a few people. I run up to her and tell her what a great show it was and she couldn't have been nicer. A lot of people backstage were talking about how Yankee pitcher Cory Lidle had just crashed a plane into a nearby building just hours ago.

True story.
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Re: Thank you Robin Zander! (Kind of calls out Paul in recent interview)

Post by So Cruel »

I think it shows that Kiss hasn’t been in it for the music for a long, long time. You see veteran bands like Cheap Trick and Iron Maiden putting out new albums and touring behind them. You see a guy like Springsteen who is much bigger then Kiss still putting out new material (2 albums in the last 2 years) and it shows who still loves their craft and who sees it as a paycheque.
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Re: Thank you Robin Zander! (Kind of calls out Paul in recent interview)

Post by BC Witch »

Grand Classic wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:49 am
BC Witch wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:44 am I'm not sure that Cheap Trick is making that much cash from new music. They certainly don't NEED to make new music to make a living.

Those gig attendance figures are very interesting for sure but don't forget that Cheap Trick and their agent will be making sure they get a guaranteed fee plus a percentage of ticket sales on any gigs they do and obviously that guarantee will be enough for them to all make a decent living. If ticket sales are low the promoter is the one taking a bath, not the band. Add in merch sales and I'm sure they're making a tidy yearly wage, not to mention Rick Nielsen's continuing royalty cheques for songs like 'Surrender' and 'I Want You To Want Me'.

Of course Cheap Trick is nowhere near a big a draw as KISS in 2021 but I doubt they're in a position where they have to make new music to make ends meet. I believe they do it because they love it. Same as Alice Cooper.
Nibbs is talking out of his ass. Cheap Trick isn't making money from album sales, because they don't sell well. Just like Paul won't be getting any big checks for Soul Station. He totally lost money on that. I am sure getting a few thousands dollars isn't what motivates Cheap Trick to make new albums.
Yeah, I agree. Cheap Trick aren't doing new albums to make money and they're certainly not in a position where they're scraping the barrel to make a living. Any concert figures are certainly interesting but they only tell part of the story. The fact is that Cheap Trick, Ace, Alice Cooper (and KISS for that matter) and any professional band have a bottom line figure that a concert promoter agrees to pay them regardless of how many tickets are sold at the gigs so it's irrelevant if less than 800 people turned up to watch Cheap Trick in Van Andel, the band were still getting paid their usual fee. Plus it's usual for the promoter to pay half of that guarantee up front to secure the band's services for the gig so even before they head out of the front door Cheap Trick has made tens if not hundreds of thousands of dollars every time they tour.

And let's not forget that Rick Nielsen's income over the years from songwriting royalties on 'Surrender' and 'I Want You To Want Me' alone has got to be in the millions. I doubt he has to work another day in his life.
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Re: Thank you Robin Zander! (Kind of calls out Paul in recent interview)

Post by Grand Classic »

BC Witch wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 12:28 pm
Grand Classic wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:49 am
BC Witch wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:44 am I'm not sure that Cheap Trick is making that much cash from new music. They certainly don't NEED to make new music to make a living.

Those gig attendance figures are very interesting for sure but don't forget that Cheap Trick and their agent will be making sure they get a guaranteed fee plus a percentage of ticket sales on any gigs they do and obviously that guarantee will be enough for them to all make a decent living. If ticket sales are low the promoter is the one taking a bath, not the band. Add in merch sales and I'm sure they're making a tidy yearly wage, not to mention Rick Nielsen's continuing royalty cheques for songs like 'Surrender' and 'I Want You To Want Me'.

Of course Cheap Trick is nowhere near a big a draw as KISS in 2021 but I doubt they're in a position where they have to make new music to make ends meet. I believe they do it because they love it. Same as Alice Cooper.
Nibbs is talking out of his ass. Cheap Trick isn't making money from album sales, because they don't sell well. Just like Paul won't be getting any big checks for Soul Station. He totally lost money on that. I am sure getting a few thousands dollars isn't what motivates Cheap Trick to make new albums.
Yeah, I agree. Cheap Trick aren't doing new albums to make money and they're certainly not in a position where they're scraping the barrel to make a living. Any concert figures are certainly interesting but they only tell part of the story. The fact is that Cheap Trick, Ace, Alice Cooper (and KISS for that matter) and any professional band have a bottom line figure that a concert promoter agrees to pay them regardless of how many tickets are sold at the gigs so it's irrelevant if less than 800 people turned up to watch Cheap Trick in Van Andel, the band were still getting paid their usual fee. Plus it's usual for the promoter to pay half of that guarantee up front to secure the band's services for the gig so even before they head out of the front door Cheap Trick has made tens if not hundreds of thousands of dollars every time they tour.

And let's not forget that Rick Nielsen's income over the years from songwriting royalties on 'Surrender' and 'I Want You To Want Me' alone has got to be in the millions. I doubt he has to work another day in his life.
Absolutely right. Cheap Trick are not hard up for money at all. Even if they were, making new albums won't make any kind of improvement on their financial status in any capacity.
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Re: Thank you Robin Zander! (Kind of calls out Paul in recent interview)

Post by gene therapist »

jannep17 wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:06 am Both points of view are valid. Cheap Trick enjoys writing and recording and Kiss thinks it's not worth the hassle.
Not to mention, one of the bands couldn't do it even if they wanted, because their frontman can no longer sing.
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Re: Thank you Robin Zander! (Kind of calls out Paul in recent interview)

Post by Den Dennis »

nibbler1982 wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:48 am
Den Dennis wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 3:00 am
nibbler1982 wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 3:34 pm I’ll make it easy for you...

I believe Cheap Trick needs the income from new albums, however small that figure may be.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Your laughter falls flat.

Some of the boxscores I’ve presented are comparable to Ace Frehley’s...and he’s doing so well he had to move in with a fan.

Now that I think about it, in Cheap Trick the money is divided FOUR ways. They tried to kick Bun E out but a contract is a contract. He didn’t sell his rights like Ace & Peter did. Bun’s still getting paid!

Maybe you’re laying at the paltry figures? That would be very nice if so.
Were you born like this, or do you have to work at it?
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Re: Thank you Robin Zander! (Kind of calls out Paul in recent interview)

Post by nibbler1982 »

Den Dennis wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:31 pm
nibbler1982 wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:48 am
Den Dennis wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 3:00 am
nibbler1982 wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 3:34 pm I’ll make it easy for you...

I believe Cheap Trick needs the income from new albums, however small that figure may be.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Your laughter falls flat.

Some of the boxscores I’ve presented are comparable to Ace Frehley’s...and he’s doing so well he had to move in with a fan.

Now that I think about it, in Cheap Trick the money is divided FOUR ways. They tried to kick Bun E out but a contract is a contract. He didn’t sell his rights like Ace & Peter did. Bun’s still getting paid!

Maybe you’re laying at the paltry figures? That would be very nice if so.
Were you born like this, or do you have to work at it?
Real numbers, hard data, empirical evidence, statistical significance and a comparative analysis still exist whether or not I join the fray.

I have no bearing on the facts either way.
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Re: Thank you Robin Zander! (Kind of calls out Paul in recent interview)

Post by UltraCynic »

nibbler1982 wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:38 pm
Den Dennis wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:31 pm
nibbler1982 wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:48 am
Den Dennis wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 3:00 am
nibbler1982 wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 3:34 pm I’ll make it easy for you...

I believe Cheap Trick needs the income from new albums, however small that figure may be.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Your laughter falls flat.

Some of the boxscores I’ve presented are comparable to Ace Frehley’s...and he’s doing so well he had to move in with a fan.

Now that I think about it, in Cheap Trick the money is divided FOUR ways. They tried to kick Bun E out but a contract is a contract. He didn’t sell his rights like Ace & Peter did. Bun’s still getting paid!

Maybe you’re laying at the paltry figures? That would be very nice if so.
Were you born like this, or do you have to work at it?
Real numbers, hard data, empirical evidence, statistical significance and a comparative analysis still exist whether or not I join the fray.

I have no bearing on the facts either way.
Good grief... Is he always like this?
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Re: Thank you Robin Zander! (Kind of calls out Paul in recent interview)

Post by sicksickphil »

KrazySwede wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 12:43 pm But Paul just released a new album. And although it is not a KISS-album or an album filled with new material or an album I myself care a lot for, it still shows that Paul will actually find it worthwhile to release an album if the 'spark' is there.
Paul only released it to somehow save his legacy.
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Re: Thank you Robin Zander! (Kind of calls out Paul in recent interview)

Post by BC Witch »

nibbler1982 wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:38 pm
Den Dennis wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:31 pm
nibbler1982 wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:48 am
Den Dennis wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 3:00 am
nibbler1982 wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 3:34 pm I’ll make it easy for you...

I believe Cheap Trick needs the income from new albums, however small that figure may be.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Your laughter falls flat.

Some of the boxscores I’ve presented are comparable to Ace Frehley’s...and he’s doing so well he had to move in with a fan.

Now that I think about it, in Cheap Trick the money is divided FOUR ways. They tried to kick Bun E out but a contract is a contract. He didn’t sell his rights like Ace & Peter did. Bun’s still getting paid!

Maybe you’re laying at the paltry figures? That would be very nice if so.
Were you born like this, or do you have to work at it?
Real numbers, hard data, empirical evidence, statistical significance and a comparative analysis still exist whether or not I join the fray.

I have no bearing on the facts either way.
Cheap Trick, Ace and every other pro band out there will be on a guaranteed fee (plus a percentage of ticket sales) regardless of how many people turn up at a given show. They're not just being paid a percentage of the boxscore. If the gig doesn't sell well then the promoter takes the hit, not the artists.
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Re: Thank you Robin Zander! (Kind of calls out Paul in recent interview)

Post by nibbler1982 »

BC Witch wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 2:19 pm
nibbler1982 wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:38 pm
Den Dennis wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:31 pm
nibbler1982 wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:48 am
Den Dennis wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 3:00 am
nibbler1982 wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 3:34 pm I’ll make it easy for you...

I believe Cheap Trick needs the income from new albums, however small that figure may be.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Your laughter falls flat.

Some of the boxscores I’ve presented are comparable to Ace Frehley’s...and he’s doing so well he had to move in with a fan.

Now that I think about it, in Cheap Trick the money is divided FOUR ways. They tried to kick Bun E out but a contract is a contract. He didn’t sell his rights like Ace & Peter did. Bun’s still getting paid!

Maybe you’re laying at the paltry figures? That would be very nice if so.
Were you born like this, or do you have to work at it?
Real numbers, hard data, empirical evidence, statistical significance and a comparative analysis still exist whether or not I join the fray.

I have no bearing on the facts either way.
Cheap Trick, Ace and every other pro band out there will be on a guaranteed fee (plus a percentage of ticket sales) regardless of how many people turn up at a given show. They're not just being paid a percentage of the boxscore. If the gig doesn't sell well then the promoter takes the hit, not the artists.
That was quite succinct. Well said. You forget to mention the most important part though.

That guarantee is based on their ability to draw.

I will reiterate the fact that Cheap Trick can’t draw much.

Robin said...

“Paul, he'd just soon rest on his laurels and go out there and play and cash in. But I just don't feel that way — that's all."

I believe if you don’t have the ability to rest on your laurels nor cash in the comment reeks of sour grapes.

After 45 years Cheap Trick are a still a club band...they’ll end their careers in <1,000 seaters or warming the crowd for bigger bands for the rest of their lives. They’re very good at what they do.

One hell of a band.

But the fact remains the same.
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Re: Thank you Robin Zander! (Kind of calls out Paul in recent interview)

Post by slide »

nibbler1982 wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 1:53 pm Cheap Trick’s awesome. I see them all the time by chance when they’re opening for someone else, but I definitely make it my business to see them if the opportunity arises. One of my favorite concerts of theirs was about 20 years ago. It was at Town Hall in Manhattan and I was surprised with an all acoustic show. I had no clue when I bought the seats but was tickled pink nonetheless. Great night.

I do challenge the legitimacy of Robin’s comments though. While I believe he enjoys making new music, I think it’s more out of necessity than anything else. I’m sure the few shekels produced by a new album makes a difference to the smaller artists. Not to mention the smaller fanbase is more akin to appreciate new music at rarities in a set list. I’m sure they’re all able to pay their bills being the ultimate crowd warmers. Although that may be a little rough on the ego 45 years into the game. Nothing against Robin Zander, but compared to Paul he’s not able to “rest on his laurels and go out there and play and cash in.”

Cheap Trick
Iron City
Birmingham, Ala.
Oct. 5, 2014
$26,783
667

Cheap Trick, Mid-Life Crisis, Verve Pipe
Van Andel Arena
Grand Rapids, Mich.
June 24, 2012
$38,570
792

Cheap Trick
Harrah's Horseshoe Riverdome
Bossier City, La.
Sept. 21, 2013
$45,301
1,337

Cheap Trick
Capitol Theatre
Clearwater, Fla.
Oct. 23, 2015
$53,650
707

Cheap Trick
Ruth Eckerd Hall
Clearwater, Fla.
Oct. 4, 2013
$44,770 1
1,165

That date at Van Andel is particularly disturbing.

TRIPLE DIGITS in an arena?

Ooof.
Smaller fanbase? Not by much.
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Re: Thank you Robin Zander! (Kind of calls out Paul in recent interview)

Post by nibbler1982 »

slide wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 3:01 pm
nibbler1982 wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 1:53 pm Cheap Trick’s awesome. I see them all the time by chance when they’re opening for someone else, but I definitely make it my business to see them if the opportunity arises. One of my favorite concerts of theirs was about 20 years ago. It was at Town Hall in Manhattan and I was surprised with an all acoustic show. I had no clue when I bought the seats but was tickled pink nonetheless. Great night.

I do challenge the legitimacy of Robin’s comments though. While I believe he enjoys making new music, I think it’s more out of necessity than anything else. I’m sure the few shekels produced by a new album makes a difference to the smaller artists. Not to mention the smaller fanbase is more akin to appreciate new music at rarities in a set list. I’m sure they’re all able to pay their bills being the ultimate crowd warmers. Although that may be a little rough on the ego 45 years into the game. Nothing against Robin Zander, but compared to Paul he’s not able to “rest on his laurels and go out there and play and cash in.”

Cheap Trick
Iron City
Birmingham, Ala.
Oct. 5, 2014
$26,783
667

Cheap Trick, Mid-Life Crisis, Verve Pipe
Van Andel Arena
Grand Rapids, Mich.
June 24, 2012
$38,570
792

Cheap Trick
Harrah's Horseshoe Riverdome
Bossier City, La.
Sept. 21, 2013
$45,301
1,337

Cheap Trick
Capitol Theatre
Clearwater, Fla.
Oct. 23, 2015
$53,650
707

Cheap Trick
Ruth Eckerd Hall
Clearwater, Fla.
Oct. 4, 2013
$44,770 1
1,165

That date at Van Andel is particularly disturbing.

TRIPLE DIGITS in an arena?

Ooof.
Smaller fanbase? Not by much.
Depends on your definition.

I consider people willing to spend money on you fans.

In that case, WAY smaller.
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Re: Thank you Robin Zander! (Kind of calls out Paul in recent interview)

Post by TheSpoiler »

slide wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 3:01 pm
nibbler1982 wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 1:53 pm Cheap Trick’s awesome. I see them all the time by chance when they’re opening for someone else, but I definitely make it my business to see them if the opportunity arises. One of my favorite concerts of theirs was about 20 years ago. It was at Town Hall in Manhattan and I was surprised with an all acoustic show. I had no clue when I bought the seats but was tickled pink nonetheless. Great night.

I do challenge the legitimacy of Robin’s comments though. While I believe he enjoys making new music, I think it’s more out of necessity than anything else. I’m sure the few shekels produced by a new album makes a difference to the smaller artists. Not to mention the smaller fanbase is more akin to appreciate new music at rarities in a set list. I’m sure they’re all able to pay their bills being the ultimate crowd warmers. Although that may be a little rough on the ego 45 years into the game. Nothing against Robin Zander, but compared to Paul he’s not able to “rest on his laurels and go out there and play and cash in.”

Cheap Trick
Iron City
Birmingham, Ala.
Oct. 5, 2014
$26,783
667

Cheap Trick, Mid-Life Crisis, Verve Pipe
Van Andel Arena
Grand Rapids, Mich.
June 24, 2012
$38,570
792

Cheap Trick
Harrah's Horseshoe Riverdome
Bossier City, La.
Sept. 21, 2013
$45,301
1,337

Cheap Trick
Capitol Theatre
Clearwater, Fla.
Oct. 23, 2015
$53,650
707

Cheap Trick
Ruth Eckerd Hall
Clearwater, Fla.
Oct. 4, 2013
$44,770 1
1,165

That date at Van Andel is particularly disturbing.

TRIPLE DIGITS in an arena?

Ooof.
Smaller fanbase? Not by much.
What's a couple of zeros between friends, eh? ;)
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Re: Thank you Robin Zander! (Kind of calls out Paul in recent interview)

Post by BigJohnsFirehouse »

Paul gets off on punishing his hardcore fans by not playing any rare songs or giving them new music regularly. It makes him feel better because he doesn’t like himself. So he punishes people who do.
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Re: Thank you Robin Zander! (Kind of calls out Paul in recent interview)

Post by TheSpoiler »

BigJohnsFirehouse wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 3:20 pm Paul gets off on punishing his hardcore fans by not playing any rare songs or giving them new music regularly. It makes him feel better because he doesn’t like himself. So he punishes people who do.
That's a pretty miserablist approach to a guy who released a new solo album a fortnight ago.

It's all so oddly familiar too ;)
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Re: Thank you Robin Zander! (Kind of calls out Paul in recent interview)

Post by Grand Classic »

TheSpoiler wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 3:27 pm
BigJohnsFirehouse wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 3:20 pm Paul gets off on punishing his hardcore fans by not playing any rare songs or giving them new music regularly. It makes him feel better because he doesn’t like himself. So he punishes people who do.
That's a pretty miserablist approach to a guy who released a new solo album a fortnight ago.

It's all so oddly familiar too ;)
That album is already done and will be forgotten before the end of the month. Paul is probably licking his wounds.
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Re: Thank you Robin Zander! (Kind of calls out Paul in recent interview)

Post by Vatreni »

Tito wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 6:28 am
Vatreni wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:25 pm Rockford and The Latest in particular are great, great records.
:salut: Some really good stuff on Bang Zoom Crazy Hello and We're All Alright too.

Bring on the new one tomorrow! 8)
Absolutely!

No Direction Home, Sing My Blues Away and the The Sun Never Sets are all great songs. I think since Rockford, The Latest and We're All Alright are probably my faves.
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Re: Thank you Robin Zander! (Kind of calls out Paul in recent interview)

Post by Vatreni »

Cheap Trick are also one of the hardest working bands out there. Pre-covid, I'd say they were easily doing between 150-200 shows a year, every year. They ALWAYS on tour and will play anywhere.
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Re: Thank you Robin Zander! (Kind of calls out Paul in recent interview)

Post by nibbler1982 »

Vatreni wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 3:58 pm Cheap Trick are also one of the hardest working bands out there. Pre-covid, I'd say they were easily doing between 150-200 shows a year, every year. They ALWAYS on tour and will play anywhere.
The available data tells us that average is closer to 50-75 shows a year. They are road warriors nonetheless a and your point is well taken. I hope to see them opening for Rod Stewart this year at a Live Nation shed near you.

God willing.
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Re: Thank you Robin Zander! (Kind of calls out Paul in recent interview)

Post by BigJohnsFirehouse »

TheSpoiler wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 3:27 pm
BigJohnsFirehouse wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 3:20 pm Paul gets off on punishing his hardcore fans by not playing any rare songs or giving them new music regularly. It makes him feel better because he doesn’t like himself. So he punishes people who do.
That's a pretty miserablist approach to a guy who released a new solo album a fortnight ago.

It's all so oddly familiar too ;)
Soul Station is an ego feeding tool and a retirement plan so he can get some stage time once KISS is done. Remember his Broadway plan in 99/2000 that he mentioned in every Farewell Tour interview? If that had panned out he wouldn’t have even gone back to Gene to reform the band in 2003. He released that album for himself, not for any great artistic desire to share music with people.

And mark my words - next project will be a follow up third “autobiography” where he tells everyone about how Rod Stewart liked his album and how he was always into that music.
Last edited by BigJohnsFirehouse on Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Thank you Robin Zander! (Kind of calls out Paul in recent interview)

Post by bluedog »

FiveCardStud wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:21 am
bluedog wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 6:43 am Paul says...if you want him to sing like he did in 1975, then go put on Alive.



No Paul, we don't want to hear you sing like that; we just want you to sing well.



So stop trying to sound like a politician, coming up with a crafty line for everything.


Your inability to sing well is the main reason you don't want to/can't put out a new record.

But saying that would obviously be no good for the Kiss brand.
Another kiss fan with a utopian sense of how the group should be, your mind is in fantasy kiss land

Your giving Paul shit for being honest about not being able to
sing, then give him shot for not able to sing and then demanded he sing well which he can’t




Ok..perhaps I could have been clearer.



We would all love Paul to be able to sing well.

But if that's not possible (which it isn't), at least sing to the best of your ability (without backing tracks), or simply hang up the microphone, or thirdly, stick to Soul Station.

I think Paul saying to put on Alive if we want him to sound good, is very much a euphemism for saying his voice is almost totally wrecked.

I don't think he's being honest at all when he talks about his voice, and certainly not honest when on stage.
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Re: Thank you Robin Zander! (Kind of calls out Paul in recent interview)

Post by Tito »

TheSpoiler wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 3:27 pm
BigJohnsFirehouse wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 3:20 pm Paul gets off on punishing his hardcore fans by not playing any rare songs or giving them new music regularly. It makes him feel better because he doesn’t like himself. So he punishes people who do.
That's a pretty miserablist approach to a guy who released a new solo album a fortnight ago.
A large consensus seems to consider said album part of the punishment.
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Re: Thank you Robin Zander! (Kind of calls out Paul in recent interview)

Post by Hotter Than Heck »

In my mind a band that doesn't release new tunes & can't pull off the simplest performance without lip synching/miming while selling tons of merchandise & tickets to its shows is nowhere near as impressive as a band that mixes up its set list & periodically releases new music all while being nowhere near as popular or as commercially successful as that creatively bankrupt lip synching artist might be

However much each band earns means nothing to me since I don't get a cut of that cash anyway

There is no wrong answer to which you think is more impressive of course, because it's all about opinion

Cheers!
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Re: Thank you Robin Zander! (Kind of calls out Paul in recent interview)

Post by Hotter Than Heck »

nibbler1982 wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 3:04 pm
slide wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 3:01 pm
Smaller fanbase? Not by much.
Depends on your definition.

I consider people willing to spend money on you fans.

In that case, WAY smaller.
It's obvious Nibbler feels this way: dollars spent = fandom

This is Kiss after all, so Nibbler is probably not the only Kiss fan that feels this way

For me fandom is not a transactional relationship. Especially since the proliferation of the internet. You can be an intense fan of so many things without leaving your house or spending a dime. Besides, why do you have to spend money to love a thing more than the people spending more money on whatever the thing is than you choose to spend?

Nibbler my friend, you've inspired me to create a poll to see if we can get a handle on where the FAQ stands:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=141206

Cheers!
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Re: Thank you Robin Zander! (Kind of calls out Paul in recent interview)

Post by UltraCynic »

Got hold of ‘In Another World’ today, and, simply put, it’s an absolute banger! Art for art’s sake. Money for God’s sake.
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Re: Thank you Robin Zander! (Kind of calls out Paul in recent interview)

Post by In the Suds »

Yep. I'm on my second listen now. Very good album.
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Re: Thank you Robin Zander! (Kind of calls out Paul in recent interview)

Post by BlackDiamond67 »

I’ve been listening after the positive reviews.
It’s amazing that Cheap Trick are making music this good this late into their career.
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Re: Thank you Robin Zander! (Kind of calls out Paul in recent interview)

Post by nibbler1982 »

At 7:00pm Q104 New York just started a listening party for Cheap Trick’s new album. Rick Nielsen’s awesome. Always genuinely engaging and funny.

Yes...I still listen to terrestrial radio.
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Re: Thank you Robin Zander! (Kind of calls out Paul in recent interview)

Post by kwf484 »

Cheap Trick couldn't "cash in" if they wanted to. CT like the Scorpions or maybe Priest just don't sell tickets or albums. Most of these bands are on fumes, touring to diminishing returns due to bad business and poor choices in the past. KISS was lucky they were able to continue after 1995. With no reunion in 96, where would the be?
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Re: Thank you Robin Zander! (Kind of calls out Paul in recent interview)

Post by kwf484 »

BigJohnsFirehouse wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 3:20 pm Paul gets off on punishing his hardcore fans by not playing any rare songs or giving them new music regularly. It makes him feel better because he doesn’t like himself. So he punishes people who do.
Pure narcissist
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FiveCardStud
Trained by Tommy!
Trained by Tommy!
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Joined: Wed Mar 11, 2020 9:43 am

Re: Thank you Robin Zander! (Kind of calls out Paul in recent interview)

Post by FiveCardStud »

BigJohnsFirehouse wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:41 am Van Halen is another band with zero following in Europe. They played there in 95 opening for Bon Jovi and no one knew who they were apart from when Jump started.
I’ve never seen such a uninformed comment before

Goliath compared to quirky garage band cheap trick
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