Three shows that ARE NOT selling like gangbusters.

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Re: Three shows that ARE NOT selling like gangbusters.

Post by Crown Royal » Sat Jul 13, 2019 10:39 am

DOUBLE DYNASTY wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:56 pm
nibbler1982 wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:24 pm
In the midst of my usual research I’m looking ahead to the upcoming U.S. leg. I’m happy to say I have a minimum of two shows I’ll be attending and possibly one in the Pennsylvania/Ohio region and/or Syracuse. Fingers crossed.

Anyway, as a whole sales for this leg look pretty strong. Go KISS! However...three shows that pop off the screen DO NOT fit this description.

For Brooklyn, North Little Rock, and Oakland...sales are soft to say the very least. Granted, sales for these three shows are still 1-2 months away, but they’re clearly the weakest of the lot.

Now if the shows at Anaheim and Glendale has shown me anything, it’s to not write these three dates off quite yet. I can’t believe the boxscores we got from those previous two. That being said, I don’t know how many times you can go to the well before coming up short. I guarantee you, Live Nation can fill every seat overnight if they want to. A favorable boxscore is another story altogether.

Time will tell.
00F5D2B3-5D50-4C98-AFC1-30D379DD3117.jpeg8736EB0C-BB6F-419C-A9B9-CD60E773CDCF.jpegC8413375-694A-4BE2-AD38-EE4061FAD2FF.jpeg
This post only goes to prove that Nibbler is completely unbiased. Pure, raw facts.
:lol:

Of course, we know this to be untrue. Nibbs has found his comfort zone in the era of Fake News.

He created this thread because he knew if he didn't then someone else would soon. He wants to get out in front of it, and control the narrative. It's what defcon 5-level narcissists do.

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Re: Three shows that ARE NOT selling like gangbusters.

Post by TheSpoiler » Sat Jul 13, 2019 10:54 am

I love conspiracy theories.

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Re: Three shows that ARE NOT selling like gangbusters.

Post by Nellcote71 » Sat Jul 13, 2019 10:58 am

TheSpoiler wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:45 am
jannep17 wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:45 am
It's over.
Clearly. They should make this the last tour and be done with it.
Now they will just keep hitting the “play” button as long as people continue to pay for tickets

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Re: Three shows that ARE NOT selling like gangbusters.

Post by KISSTRONAUT » Sat Jul 13, 2019 11:13 am

Just checked. These shows had a slight upgrade to selling like hotcakes status.

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Re: Three shows that ARE NOT selling like gangbusters.

Post by TheSpoiler » Sat Jul 13, 2019 11:26 am

Nellcote71 wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 10:58 am
TheSpoiler wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:45 am
jannep17 wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:45 am
It's over.
Clearly. They should make this the last tour and be done with it.
Now they will just keep hitting the “play” button as long as people continue to pay for tickets
I think you may have missed my point. :)

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Re: Three shows that ARE NOT selling like gangbusters.

Post by Tymaster » Sat Jul 13, 2019 11:57 am

redinthesky wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 3:57 am
ACESTATION wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:51 pm
Brooklyn, North Little Rock, and Oakland
This is not KISS' fault. They are economic disaster areas as far as disposable income.
They can always use Groupon for these 3 concerts and still spin a profit.
Iron Maiden is also playing two nights in a few weeks at Barclay's, one show is sold out and the other is fairly close and will most likely either sell out or be right there. Even The Backstreet Boys are almost sold out for their August show at Barclays. Shawn Mendes is thisclose to selling out his two Barclay's shows in August.

The fact is, it has nothing to do with income, if people wanna go, they'll go. With so many of the hard rock fans staying away from Kiss, there's only one arena's worth of The Price is Right and Jeopardy fans that are interested. Kiss actually did fine in the area, their hometown with millions of people, with their MSG and nearby Nassau Coliseum shows, they're simply pressing their luck.

(Edit: I mistakenly put Queen at Barclay's for two nights, but it is Madison Square Garden they sold out two nights at, my error, but still same area just miles apart.)
Disagree about the income statement, but perhaps it's semantics. I make more now than ever and have a spouse that pulls in just as much. That said, we stayed away from Queen due to costs. Same with Elton. We make more than ever but everything costs more than ever. I am still going to Maiden, but I bought a cheap seat. If I see KISS again, it'll be a law ticket. Again, I just can't justify the pavilion ticket. House payment, insurance, groceries for the kids, gas for the car or concerts? It's all about income. If I made we both pulled in six figures individually, we'd go to all of them. Just sayin'

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Re: Three shows that ARE NOT selling like gangbusters.

Post by Spiritual_Chaos » Sat Jul 13, 2019 11:58 am

TheSpoiler wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:45 am
jannep17 wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:45 am
It's over.
Clearly. They should make this the last tour and be done with it.
Image

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Re: Three shows that ARE NOT selling like gangbusters.

Post by PterCriss » Sat Jul 13, 2019 12:20 pm

Tymaster wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 11:57 am
redinthesky wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 3:57 am
ACESTATION wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:51 pm
Brooklyn, North Little Rock, and Oakland
This is not KISS' fault. They are economic disaster areas as far as disposable income.
They can always use Groupon for these 3 concerts and still spin a profit.
Iron Maiden is also playing two nights in a few weeks at Barclay's, one show is sold out and the other is fairly close and will most likely either sell out or be right there. Even The Backstreet Boys are almost sold out for their August show at Barclays. Shawn Mendes is thisclose to selling out his two Barclay's shows in August.

The fact is, it has nothing to do with income, if people wanna go, they'll go. With so many of the hard rock fans staying away from Kiss, there's only one arena's worth of The Price is Right and Jeopardy fans that are interested. Kiss actually did fine in the area, their hometown with millions of people, with their MSG and nearby Nassau Coliseum shows, they're simply pressing their luck.

(Edit: I mistakenly put Queen at Barclay's for two nights, but it is Madison Square Garden they sold out two nights at, my error, but still same area just miles apart.)
Disagree about the income statement, but perhaps it's semantics. I make more now than ever and have a spouse that pulls in just as much. That said, we stayed away from Queen due to costs. Same with Elton. We make more than ever but everything costs more than ever. I am still going to Maiden, but I bought a cheap seat. If I see KISS again, it'll be a law ticket. Again, I just can't justify the pavilion ticket. House payment, insurance, groceries for the kids, gas for the car or concerts? It's all about income. If I made we both pulled in six figures individually, we'd go to all of them. Just sayin'
How many times do you want to say you make more money now then ever before. Gee brother we get it, we get it.

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Re: Three shows that ARE NOT selling like gangbusters.

Post by Tymaster » Sat Jul 13, 2019 12:38 pm

PterCriss wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 12:20 pm
Tymaster wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 11:57 am
redinthesky wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 3:57 am
ACESTATION wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:51 pm
Brooklyn, North Little Rock, and Oakland
This is not KISS' fault. They are economic disaster areas as far as disposable income.
They can always use Groupon for these 3 concerts and still spin a profit.
Iron Maiden is also playing two nights in a few weeks at Barclay's, one show is sold out and the other is fairly close and will most likely either sell out or be right there. Even The Backstreet Boys are almost sold out for their August show at Barclays. Shawn Mendes is thisclose to selling out his two Barclay's shows in August.

The fact is, it has nothing to do with income, if people wanna go, they'll go. With so many of the hard rock fans staying away from Kiss, there's only one arena's worth of The Price is Right and Jeopardy fans that are interested. Kiss actually did fine in the area, their hometown with millions of people, with their MSG and nearby Nassau Coliseum shows, they're simply pressing their luck.

(Edit: I mistakenly put Queen at Barclay's for two nights, but it is Madison Square Garden they sold out two nights at, my error, but still same area just miles apart.)
Disagree about the income statement, but perhaps it's semantics. I make more now than ever and have a spouse that pulls in just as much. That said, we stayed away from Queen due to costs. Same with Elton. We make more than ever but everything costs more than ever. I am still going to Maiden, but I bought a cheap seat. If I see KISS again, it'll be a law ticket. Again, I just can't justify the pavilion ticket. House payment, insurance, groceries for the kids, gas for the car or concerts? It's all about income. If I made we both pulled in six figures individually, we'd go to all of them. Just sayin'
How many times do you want to say you make more money now then ever before. Gee brother we get it, we get it.
Lol. My point is 1%, 2% & 3% raises every year don’t keep up w/ inflation. Ergo, it’s all about income. No bragging, we’re as middle class it gets. 😎 Have a great day!

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Re: Three shows that ARE NOT selling like gangbusters.

Post by PterCriss » Sat Jul 13, 2019 12:41 pm

Tymaster wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 12:38 pm
PterCriss wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 12:20 pm
Tymaster wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 11:57 am
redinthesky wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 3:57 am
ACESTATION wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:51 pm
Brooklyn, North Little Rock, and Oakland
This is not KISS' fault. They are economic disaster areas as far as disposable income.
They can always use Groupon for these 3 concerts and still spin a profit.
Iron Maiden is also playing two nights in a few weeks at Barclay's, one show is sold out and the other is fairly close and will most likely either sell out or be right there. Even The Backstreet Boys are almost sold out for their August show at Barclays. Shawn Mendes is thisclose to selling out his two Barclay's shows in August.

The fact is, it has nothing to do with income, if people wanna go, they'll go. With so many of the hard rock fans staying away from Kiss, there's only one arena's worth of The Price is Right and Jeopardy fans that are interested. Kiss actually did fine in the area, their hometown with millions of people, with their MSG and nearby Nassau Coliseum shows, they're simply pressing their luck.

(Edit: I mistakenly put Queen at Barclay's for two nights, but it is Madison Square Garden they sold out two nights at, my error, but still same area just miles apart.)
Disagree about the income statement, but perhaps it's semantics. I make more now than ever and have a spouse that pulls in just as much. That said, we stayed away from Queen due to costs. Same with Elton. We make more than ever but everything costs more than ever. I am still going to Maiden, but I bought a cheap seat. If I see KISS again, it'll be a law ticket. Again, I just can't justify the pavilion ticket. House payment, insurance, groceries for the kids, gas for the car or concerts? It's all about income. If I made we both pulled in six figures individually, we'd go to all of them. Just sayin'
How many times do you want to say you make more money now then ever before. Gee brother we get it, we get it.
Lol. My point is 1%, 2% & 3% raises every year don’t keep up w/ inflation. Ergo, it’s all about income. No bragging, we’re as middle class it gets. 😎 Have a great day!
I understand. Concert prices have sky rocketed.

Good luck.

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Re: Three shows that ARE NOT selling like gangbusters.

Post by Tymaster » Sat Jul 13, 2019 1:03 pm

PterCriss wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 12:41 pm
Tymaster wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 12:38 pm
PterCriss wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 12:20 pm
Tymaster wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 11:57 am
redinthesky wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 3:57 am
ACESTATION wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:51 pm
Brooklyn, North Little Rock, and Oakland
This is not KISS' fault. They are economic disaster areas as far as disposable income.
They can always use Groupon for these 3 concerts and still spin a profit.
Iron Maiden is also playing two nights in a few weeks at Barclay's, one show is sold out and the other is fairly close and will most likely either sell out or be right there. Even The Backstreet Boys are almost sold out for their August show at Barclays. Shawn Mendes is thisclose to selling out his two Barclay's shows in August.

The fact is, it has nothing to do with income, if people wanna go, they'll go. With so many of the hard rock fans staying away from Kiss, there's only one arena's worth of The Price is Right and Jeopardy fans that are interested. Kiss actually did fine in the area, their hometown with millions of people, with their MSG and nearby Nassau Coliseum shows, they're simply pressing their luck.

(Edit: I mistakenly put Queen at Barclay's for two nights, but it is Madison Square Garden they sold out two nights at, my error, but still same area just miles apart.)
Disagree about the income statement, but perhaps it's semantics. I make more now than ever and have a spouse that pulls in just as much. That said, we stayed away from Queen due to costs. Same with Elton. We make more than ever but everything costs more than ever. I am still going to Maiden, but I bought a cheap seat. If I see KISS again, it'll be a law ticket. Again, I just can't justify the pavilion ticket. House payment, insurance, groceries for the kids, gas for the car or concerts? It's all about income. If I made we both pulled in six figures individually, we'd go to all of them. Just sayin'
How many times do you want to say you make more money now then ever before. Gee brother we get it, we get it.
Lol. My point is 1%, 2% & 3% raises every year don’t keep up w/ inflation. Ergo, it’s all about income. No bragging, we’re as middle class it gets. 😎 Have a great day!
I understand. Concert prices have sky rocketed.

Good luck.
It’s funny. Slayer are on their farewell tour as well and I may see them one more time as well. I was going thru all of my 20 off Slayer stubs thru the years and Slayer tix up until about 2006 or so wouldn’t get me 12 wings and 2 beers at BW3s.

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Re: Three shows that ARE NOT selling like gangbusters.

Post by Velvis » Sat Jul 13, 2019 2:53 pm

Nellcote71 wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 5:43 pm
I’d say NONE of the EOTR shows sold “...like gangbusters...”
Zero point zero...

It took time to paper all those shows so they appeared fairly full
How would you know if shows were papered?

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Re: Three shows that ARE NOT selling like gangbusters.

Post by TheSpoiler » Sat Jul 13, 2019 3:50 pm

If the shows had been papered, the gate receipts would have reflected that. Unless Billboard are also on G&Ps payroll too, and are inflating the figures for them.

But there are some who WANT to believe the shows were heavily papered, sure.

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Re: Three shows that ARE NOT selling like gangbusters.

Post by redinthesky » Sat Jul 13, 2019 4:06 pm

Tymaster wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 11:57 am
redinthesky wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 3:57 am
ACESTATION wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:51 pm
Brooklyn, North Little Rock, and Oakland
This is not KISS' fault. They are economic disaster areas as far as disposable income.
They can always use Groupon for these 3 concerts and still spin a profit.
Iron Maiden is also playing two nights in a few weeks at Barclay's, one show is sold out and the other is fairly close and will most likely either sell out or be right there. Even The Backstreet Boys are almost sold out for their August show at Barclays. Shawn Mendes is thisclose to selling out his two Barclay's shows in August.

The fact is, it has nothing to do with income, if people wanna go, they'll go. With so many of the hard rock fans staying away from Kiss, there's only one arena's worth of The Price is Right and Jeopardy fans that are interested. Kiss actually did fine in the area, their hometown with millions of people, with their MSG and nearby Nassau Coliseum shows, they're simply pressing their luck.

(Edit: I mistakenly put Queen at Barclay's for two nights, but it is Madison Square Garden they sold out two nights at, my error, but still same area just miles apart.)
Disagree about the income statement, but perhaps it's semantics. I make more now than ever and have a spouse that pulls in just as much. That said, we stayed away from Queen due to costs. Same with Elton. We make more than ever but everything costs more than ever. I am still going to Maiden, but I bought a cheap seat. If I see KISS again, it'll be a law ticket. Again, I just can't justify the pavilion ticket. House payment, insurance, groceries for the kids, gas for the car or concerts? It's all about income. If I made we both pulled in six figures individually, we'd go to all of them. Just sayin'
That's you personally though, my man Acestation was talking about the area, blaming the low ticket sales at Barclay's on the economy. If the case was that the area was too poor to afford to see Kiss, Kiss would not have filled up the Garden already, and Nassau Coliseum nearby. Plus, the examples I gave show that there's more than enough people here willing to pay for a show at Barclays (again Maiden twice, and Queen twice at MSG), if they want to go to a show. Billy Joel fills up the Garden every month in his residency. It's not an area thing, it's a Kiss thing.

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Re: Three shows that ARE NOT selling like gangbusters.

Post by BeholderFan » Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:49 pm

nibbler1982 wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:42 am
redinthesky wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:05 am
Whoops, Queen sold out two at the Garden in August.

That's even better! Still in the same "economic disaster area."
You consider naming the wrong arena even better?
DUde, Red corrected his mistake. YOu got to chill. Besides, Queen sold out TWO nights at MSG, while KISS got their sell out at the Garden, you know the one that Tommy and Ace are bitching about, just under the wire. How come KISS can't sell out TWO? Gene just said that "this EOTR tour buries past tours" (I am paraphrasing). You keep talking about how this tour is going to "outperform" the Alive World Wide, I assume to try to prove that this current line up is better. Well? This current EOTR should have sold 2 or more nights at the Garden. Just curious.

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Re: Three shows that ARE NOT selling like gangbusters.

Post by PterCriss » Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:44 pm

TheSpoiler wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 3:50 pm
If the shows had been papered, the gate receipts would have reflected that. Unless Billboard are also on G&Ps payroll too, and are inflating the figures for them.

But there are some who WANT to believe the shows were heavily papered, sure.
Nibbs has said many times that Live Nation can fill an arena overnight. What does that mean exactly?

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Re: Three shows that ARE NOT selling like gangbusters.

Post by PterCriss » Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:47 pm

redinthesky wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 4:06 pm
Tymaster wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 11:57 am
redinthesky wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 3:57 am
ACESTATION wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:51 pm
Brooklyn, North Little Rock, and Oakland
This is not KISS' fault. They are economic disaster areas as far as disposable income.
They can always use Groupon for these 3 concerts and still spin a profit.
Iron Maiden is also playing two nights in a few weeks at Barclay's, one show is sold out and the other is fairly close and will most likely either sell out or be right there. Even The Backstreet Boys are almost sold out for their August show at Barclays. Shawn Mendes is thisclose to selling out his two Barclay's shows in August.

The fact is, it has nothing to do with income, if people wanna go, they'll go. With so many of the hard rock fans staying away from Kiss, there's only one arena's worth of The Price is Right and Jeopardy fans that are interested. Kiss actually did fine in the area, their hometown with millions of people, with their MSG and nearby Nassau Coliseum shows, they're simply pressing their luck.

(Edit: I mistakenly put Queen at Barclay's for two nights, but it is Madison Square Garden they sold out two nights at, my error, but still same area just miles apart.)
Disagree about the income statement, but perhaps it's semantics. I make more now than ever and have a spouse that pulls in just as much. That said, we stayed away from Queen due to costs. Same with Elton. We make more than ever but everything costs more than ever. I am still going to Maiden, but I bought a cheap seat. If I see KISS again, it'll be a law ticket. Again, I just can't justify the pavilion ticket. House payment, insurance, groceries for the kids, gas for the car or concerts? It's all about income. If I made we both pulled in six figures individually, we'd go to all of them. Just sayin'
That's you personally though, my man Acestation was talking about the area, blaming the low ticket sales at Barclay's on the economy. If the case was that the area was too poor to afford to see Kiss, Kiss would not have filled up the Garden already, and Nassau Coliseum nearby. Plus, the examples I gave show that there's more than enough people here willing to pay for a show at Barclays (again Maiden twice, and Queen twice at MSG), if they want to go to a show. Billy Joel fills up the Garden every month in his residency. It's not an area thing, it's a Kiss thing.
Everyone should be speechless from your post RED. How do you argue with what you wrote?

Maybe someone needs to do a population vs income vs economy report and see how bad this area of NY is...................or not. The economy is also doing very well these days.

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Re: Three shows that ARE NOT selling like gangbusters.

Post by KF73 » Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:59 pm

nibbler1982 wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:24 pm
In the midst of my usual research I’m looking ahead to the upcoming U.S. leg. I’m happy to say I have a minimum of two shows I’ll be attending and possibly one in the Pennsylvania/Ohio region and/or Syracuse. Fingers crossed.

Anyway, as a whole sales for this leg look pretty strong. Go KISS! However...three shows that pop off the screen DO NOT fit this description.

For Brooklyn, North Little Rock, and Oakland...sales are soft to say the very least. Granted, sales for these three shows are still 1-2 months away, but they’re clearly the weakest of the lot.

Now if the shows at Anaheim and Glendale has shown me anything, it’s to not write these three dates off quite yet. I can’t believe the boxscores we got from those previous two. That being said, I don’t know how many times you can go to the well before coming up short. I guarantee you, Live Nation can fill every seat overnight if they want to. A favorable boxscore is another story altogether.

Time will tell.
00F5D2B3-5D50-4C98-AFC1-30D379DD3117.jpeg8736EB0C-BB6F-419C-A9B9-CD60E773CDCF.jpegC8413375-694A-4BE2-AD38-EE4061FAD2FF.jpeg
Funny, I was looking late last night at the tour. Couple of other pretty rough shows too. Fort Lauderdale to kick it off. Bossier City is pretty rough too. Same pattern hit during the Farewell Tour.

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Re: Three shows that ARE NOT selling like gangbusters.

Post by So Cruel » Sat Jul 13, 2019 8:41 pm

PterCriss wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:44 pm
TheSpoiler wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 3:50 pm
If the shows had been papered, the gate receipts would have reflected that. Unless Billboard are also on G&Ps payroll too, and are inflating the figures for them.

But there are some who WANT to believe the shows were heavily papered, sure.
Nibbs has said many times that Live Nation can fill an arena overnight. What does that mean exactly?
They can Groupon, paper the show, ....basically discount tickets heavily to fill up the arena and make money other ways (merch, food, parking, etc...)

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Re: Three shows that ARE NOT selling like gangbusters.

Post by nibbler1982 » Sat Jul 13, 2019 10:55 pm

Velvis wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 2:53 pm
Nellcote71 wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 5:43 pm
I’d say NONE of the EOTR shows sold “...like gangbusters...”
Zero point zero...

It took time to paper all those shows so they appeared fairly full
How would you know if shows were papered?
There’s not really one specific scenario that proves papering. If you keep your eye on the live music industry you can spot obvious inconsistencies. A dead giveaway is solid attendance with a poor gate.

If you have low attendance and a low gate then everything’s on the up and up, it only makes sense. Sometimes you have pretty decent attendance but the monies drawn is way out of whack. That shows there’s papering involved. The more disproportionate, the heavier the papering. Here’s an extreme example.

Ace Frehley, Killcode
PlayStation Theater
New York City, NY
September 23, 2016
$13,513
992

That comes to an anemic average ticket price of $13.62

Tickets were $29.59 - $39.50 a piece. For them to average out way below HALF of the lowest price seats available it shows they were practically giving them away to fill the place up.

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Re: Three shows that ARE NOT selling like gangbusters.

Post by jannep17 » Sun Jul 14, 2019 5:44 am

TheSpoiler wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:45 am
jannep17 wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:45 am
It's over.
Clearly. They should make this the last tour and be done with it.
Ha! ☺️

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Re: Three shows that ARE NOT selling like gangbusters.

Post by Doose » Sun Jul 14, 2019 6:46 am

So if Ace joined KISS on EOTR and sold 1,000 more tickets (bringing the per-night-average to Reunion Tour-levels) a night at $13.62 per ticket, he'd add $13,620 to gross ticket sales each show. Subtract his hotel, travel, equipment, insurance, Rachael, etc., and KISS would lose $85,293 on each show by adding Ace to the line-up.

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Re: Three shows that ARE NOT selling like gangbusters.

Post by nibbler1982 » Sun Jul 14, 2019 6:50 am

TheSpoiler wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 3:50 pm
If the shows had been papered, the gate receipts would have reflected that. Unless Billboard are also on G&Ps payroll too, and are inflating the figures for them.

But there are some who WANT to believe the shows were heavily papered, sure.
I can understand why some people would make that comment. They want to push their narrative. They want to make people believe this tour ISN’T displaying the unparalleled triumph that it is.

The problem is we have 44 boxscores that show EOTR’s unmitigated success. It exhibits just how ignorant such talk of papering really is.

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Re: Three shows that ARE NOT selling like gangbusters.

Post by Thunderous_Lay » Sun Jul 14, 2019 6:54 am

Doose wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 6:46 am
Subtract his hotel, travel, equipment, insurance, Rachael, etc.
I died.

:lol: :lol: 8)

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Re: Three shows that ARE NOT selling like gangbusters.

Post by Nellcote71 » Sun Jul 14, 2019 9:07 am

nibbler1982 wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 6:50 am
They want to make people believe this tour ISN’T displaying the unparalleled triumph that it is.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Now THAT is rich!

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Re: Three shows that ARE NOT selling like gangbusters.

Post by TheSpoiler » Sun Jul 14, 2019 9:16 am

Nellcote71 wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 9:07 am
nibbler1982 wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 6:50 am
They want to make people believe this tour ISN’T displaying the unparalleled triumph that it is.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Now THAT is rich!
Care to provide some proof of what you're saying? Youve been asked a couple of times now. You claim the shows are papered and heavily too. What's the source?

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Re: Three shows that ARE NOT selling like gangbusters.

Post by Spiritual_Chaos » Sun Jul 14, 2019 9:21 am

nibbler1982 wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 6:50 am
TheSpoiler wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 3:50 pm
If the shows had been papered, the gate receipts would have reflected that. Unless Billboard are also on G&Ps payroll too, and are inflating the figures for them.

But there are some who WANT to believe the shows were heavily papered, sure.
I can understand why some people would make that comment. They want to push their narrative. They want to make people believe this tour ISN’T displaying the unparalleled triumph that it is.

The problem is we have 44 boxscores that show EOTR’s unmitigated success. It exhibits just how ignorant such talk of papering really is.
In what way is the triumph "unparallelled" ?

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Re: Three shows that ARE NOT selling like gangbusters.

Post by nibbler1982 » Sun Jul 14, 2019 9:35 am

Spiritual_Chaos wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 9:21 am
nibbler1982 wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 6:50 am
TheSpoiler wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 3:50 pm
If the shows had been papered, the gate receipts would have reflected that. Unless Billboard are also on G&Ps payroll too, and are inflating the figures for them.

But there are some who WANT to believe the shows were heavily papered, sure.
I can understand why some people would make that comment. They want to push their narrative. They want to make people believe this tour ISN’T displaying the unparalleled triumph that it is.

The problem is we have 44 boxscores that show EOTR’s unmitigated success. It exhibits just how ignorant such talk of papering really is.
In what way is the triumph "unparallelled" ?
Well, Billboard has noted that in 43 shows of EOTR it has already outperformed any other KISS tour.

That would fit the description of unparalleled...no?

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Re: Three shows that ARE NOT selling like gangbusters.

Post by vinniestkulick » Sun Jul 14, 2019 9:47 am

Doose wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 6:46 am
So if Ace joined KISS on EOTR and sold 1,000 more tickets (bringing the per-night-average to Reunion Tour-levels) a night at $13.62 per ticket, he'd add $13,620 to gross ticket sales each show. Subtract his hotel, travel, equipment, insurance, Rachael, etc., and KISS would lose $85,293 on each show by adding Ace to the line-up.
Such juvenile math... none of these guys solo would pull more than 1,000 people. By this kindergarten assessment they should only be playing for 4,000 people a night (man, I can't wait for a Tommy Thayer solo album and tour... nothing's stopped him from doing one during his 15 year tenure in Kiss, and yet... nothing happens).
We all know more than half the people attending these shows think they're seeing the original line up (or can't name more than one member)... I had morons next to me at the Long Island show screaming for New York Groove to be played. People are actually attending Lynyrd Skynyrd farewell performances, too. Is there even one actual member on stage?
PT Barnum would either be proud or mortified at what audiences will fall for, now.
An Ace Frehley line up wouldnt have had to fake a 1 night, last minute "sell out" at MSG. Seats behind the stage would be full, too. Multiple nights. NY is a problem because audiences here are cynical to begin with.
Ace being invited on stage on the cruise to perform with
the band he helped make, on the very day tickets went on sale for EOTR was no accident. That story blew up as people were paying top dollar for the same line up they'd written off.
One thing the Rachel meltdown achieved was clarity for the masses as to what was going on. Who was or wasn't going to be on stage...
ACE was naive and desperate enough to be used, and he was.

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Re: Three shows that ARE NOT selling like gangbusters.

Post by Crown Royal » Sun Jul 14, 2019 11:05 am

nibbler1982 wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 9:35 am
Spiritual_Chaos wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 9:21 am
nibbler1982 wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 6:50 am
TheSpoiler wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 3:50 pm
If the shows had been papered, the gate receipts would have reflected that. Unless Billboard are also on G&Ps payroll too, and are inflating the figures for them.

But there are some who WANT to believe the shows were heavily papered, sure.
I can understand why some people would make that comment. They want to push their narrative. They want to make people believe this tour ISN’T displaying the unparalleled triumph that it is.

The problem is we have 44 boxscores that show EOTR’s unmitigated success. It exhibits just how ignorant such talk of papering really is.
In what way is the triumph "unparallelled" ?
Well, Billboard has noted that in 43 shows of EOTR it has already outperformed any other KISS tour.

That would fit the description of unparalleled...no?
Because the concert industry has seen ticket prices soar to levels no one could have ever predicted. This has more to do with the concert industry as a whole than anything KISS is or is not doing.

If a single show in NYC and a single, not-sold-out show in Detroit are part of this "unparalleled success", then what adjective and noun combo do we use to describe the four nights in NYC, and three shows (one being a stadium) in Detroit from the AW tour?

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Re: Three shows that ARE NOT selling like gangbusters.

Post by Doose » Sun Jul 14, 2019 11:20 am

vinniestkulick wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 9:47 am
Doose wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 6:46 am
So if Ace joined KISS on EOTR and sold 1,000 more tickets (bringing the per-night-average to Reunion Tour-levels) a night at $13.62 per ticket, he'd add $13,620 to gross ticket sales each show. Subtract his hotel, travel, equipment, insurance, Rachael, etc., and KISS would lose $85,293 on each show by adding Ace to the line-up.
Such juvenile math... none of these guys solo would pull more than 1,000 people. By this kindergarten assessment they should only be playing for 4,000 people a night (man, I can't wait for a Tommy Thayer solo album and tour... nothing's stopped him from doing one during his 15 year tenure in Kiss, and yet... nothing happens).
We all know more than half the people attending these shows think they're seeing the original line up (or can't name more than one member)... I had morons next to me at the Long Island show screaming for New York Groove to be played. People are actually attending Lynyrd Skynyrd farewell performances, too. Is there even one actual member on stage?
PT Barnum would either be proud or mortified at what audiences will fall for, now.
An Ace Frehley line up wouldnt have had to fake a 1 night, last minute "sell out" at MSG. Seats behind the stage would be full, too. Multiple nights. NY is a problem because audiences here are cynical to begin with.
Ace being invited on stage on the cruise to perform with
the band he helped make, on the very day tickets went on sale for EOTR was no accident. That story blew up as people were paying top dollar for the same line up they'd written off.
One thing the Rachel meltdown achieved was clarity for the masses as to what was going on. Who was or wasn't going to be on stage...
ACE was naive and desperate enough to be used, and he was.
Such harsh words - "Juvenile," "Morons," etc.

All from the person who didn't even realize it was a goof.

Ahhhh the irony.

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Re: Three shows that ARE NOT selling like gangbusters.

Post by Much Too Soon » Sun Jul 14, 2019 12:48 pm

Nellcote71 wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 9:07 am
nibbler1982 wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 6:50 am
They want to make people believe this tour ISN’T displaying the unparalleled triumph that it is.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Now THAT is rich!
Rich and TRUE.

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Re: Three shows that ARE NOT selling like gangbusters.

Post by TheSpoiler » Sun Jul 14, 2019 1:10 pm

Much Too Soon wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 12:48 pm
Nellcote71 wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 9:07 am
nibbler1982 wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 6:50 am
They want to make people believe this tour ISN’T displaying the unparalleled triumph that it is.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Now THAT is rich!
Rich and TRUE.
Still waiting for anyone to provide any evidence whatsoever for this "papering of shows". Presumably there's a source, yes?

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Re: Three shows that ARE NOT selling like gangbusters.

Post by Agerst1574 » Sun Jul 14, 2019 1:47 pm

I don’t see them papering for any shows. Not something that I am aware that Live Nation does. They do buy 1, get 1 free, or a four pack for a cheaper price.

I was on the fence about going to see another show but I have been looking at Groupon, and Goldstar to see if any tickets are popping up cheap for the Fort Lauderdale or Brooklyn shows (I live in both areas) but nothing has popped up.

Stubhub has some seats going for less than face like the back of the lower level in Brooklyn so I expect prices to go even lower as the show happens. But I am really waiting for tickets to show up on Groupon.

The truth is after 250 bucks for a show on the first leg, I am not going unless I can get something decent for under 100 bucks.

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Re: Three shows that ARE NOT selling like gangbusters.

Post by 69th_B1izard » Sun Jul 14, 2019 1:48 pm

Looks like the promoter will have to do a media blitz for those shows in the coming months.

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Re: Three shows that ARE NOT selling like gangbusters.

Post by Mr Slow » Sun Jul 14, 2019 4:39 pm

Some fans almost seem happy there’s a few dud shows on the horizon. Kinda like when they all got excited over what they thought was a tiny crowd at that stadium show in Kiev (which turned out to be one of the biggest audiences of this tour). Why on earth would a KISS fan take pleasure from the band failing? Does that seem like something a fan would do? What’s the deal? :scratch:

KISS played 40+ dates in the US and most arenas were full or close to. On this second leg they’ve done a few big festivals and some more arenas and those crowds are just as big as they were in the States. Later this year they’ll hit Australia, where they have 3 nights in Melbourne (something they’ve only done once before). Then Japan where they always do well. This tour so far has been a big success.

I don’t want to compare it with other tours they’ve done because I don’t know much about numbers, gate, papering, average ticket prices etc., but by all accounts it appears to be one of their biggest tours ever. One or two in the 70’s and a couple during the Reunion may (or may not) have it beat, but at every other point of their career they’d be happy with what has transpired across the past 6 months.

So let’s be real here; even the massive Alive Worldwide tour in 1996/97 had a couple of clunkers. So did the first Farewell. KISS are not a band that can regularly expect more than about 10,000 to attend every concert. They’ll have a few peaks & troughs, but throughout their long, decorated career, that has been about the average. Let’s not pretend they are struggling. And if they were, why would any of us take pleasure from that? :|

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Re: Three shows that ARE NOT selling like gangbusters.

Post by Crown Royal » Sun Jul 14, 2019 4:46 pm

Mr Slow wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 4:39 pm
Some fans almost seem happy there’s a few dud shows on the horizon. Kinda like when they all got excited over what they thought was a tiny crowd at that stadium show in Kiev (which turned out to be one of the biggest audiences of this tour). Why on earth would a KISS fan take pleasure from the band failing? Does that seem like something a fan would do? What’s the deal? :scratch:

KISS played 40+ dates in the US and most arenas were full or close to. On this second leg they’ve done a few big festivals and some more arenas and those crowds are just as big as they were in the States. Later this year they’ll hit Australia, where they have 3 nights in Melbourne (something they’ve only done once before). Then Japan where they always do well. This tour so far has been a big success.

I don’t want to compare it with other tours they’ve done because I don’t know much about numbers, gate, papering, average ticket prices etc., but by all accounts it appears to be one of their biggest tours ever. One or two in the 70’s and a couple during the Reunion may (or may not) have it beat, but at every other point of their career they’d be happy with what has transpired across the past 6 months.

So let’s be real here; even the massive Alive Worldwide tour in 1996/97 had a couple of clunkers. So did the first Farewell. KISS are not a band that can regularly expect more than about 10,000 to attend every concert. They’ll have a few peaks & troughs, but throughout their long, decorated career, that has been about the average. Let’s not pretend they are struggling. And if they were, why would any of us take pleasure from that? :|
Who takes pleasure in it?

I know people who enjoy proving your boy Nibbs wrong, but that's not the same as being happy KISS has some dud shows.

Maybe if your boy didn't run around here spouting such nonsense then you'd see less people correcting him all the time.

Is EOTR a successful tour? By most standards, I'd say yes.

But we can't leave it at that. EOTR has to be their biggest and most successful tour, EVER. And to "prove" it, he goes and cuts a hundred shows from the AW tour to make the numbers fit his agenda.

I don't know many people who want KISS to fail. I certainly know some who want Nibbs to fail, and that is mostly due to the fact he simply lies and manipulates numbers so he can be right.

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Re: Three shows that ARE NOT selling like gangbusters.

Post by Lofton23rdSt » Sun Jul 14, 2019 5:54 pm

They're not doing anything special for the tour that people would see them twice or they would be able to do well in the same area again.

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Re: Three shows that ARE NOT selling like gangbusters.

Post by PterCriss » Sun Jul 14, 2019 7:09 pm

Lofton23rdSt wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 5:54 pm
They're not doing anything special for the tour that people would see them twice or they would be able to do well in the same area again.
Coming back to an area to soon doesn't work.

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Re: Three shows that ARE NOT selling like gangbusters.

Post by Much Too Soon » Sun Jul 14, 2019 7:22 pm

The usual suspects use it for confirmation bias. They have so much negativity invested here they cannot fathom the immense popularity of THE TOUR and focus on a few shows as proof of their false narrative. Nor allow anyone to enjoy a few breaths and to enjoy this MB.

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