When did Ace start holding back songs for his '78 solo album?

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When did Ace start holding back songs for his '78 solo album?

Post by Red_Walrus » Tue May 14, 2019 5:47 pm

When did Kiss know that there would be 4 solo albums planned? Did Ace not say he knew this and held back songs for his solo album. I just wonder when he knew this because there is a stark difference in his contributions between the first 3 studio albums and the next 3. Anyone have that quote from Ace about holding back songs?

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Re: When did Ace start holding back songs for his '78 solo album?

Post by Planet Caravan » Tue May 14, 2019 6:10 pm

Ace has said that the reason he didn't contribute much songwriting to Destroyer and RARO was that he was partying too hard once Kiss became successful. He said he actually regrets not contributing to those albums more (probably because he missed out on songwriting royalties haha)

If he did hold back songs, it was probably only from Love Gun. And that was probably more because he was pissed off at Rocket Ride being rejected.

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Re: When did Ace start holding back songs for his '78 solo album?

Post by Nately120 » Tue May 14, 2019 6:23 pm

Ace having 0 writing credits on RARO made me think he did most of his stockpiling then, but that's just conjecture on my part.

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Re: When did Ace start holding back songs for his '78 solo album?

Post by Xcarnation » Tue May 14, 2019 7:49 pm

He said he was writing for his solo album since RARO and if I remember correct he said thats why there were no songs from him on it.

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Re: When did Ace start holding back songs for his '78 solo album?

Post by ManOf1000Faces » Tue May 14, 2019 8:09 pm

Ace didn't sing before "Shock Me". Which songs could he have offered for the other three to sing?

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Re: When did Ace start holding back songs for his '78 solo album?

Post by So Cruel » Tue May 14, 2019 8:56 pm

It wasn’t until his solo album was the most successful and he had the only hit that he was going to get more then 1 of his songs on a Kiss album. He had Rocket Ride for Love Gun and it got rejected. Ace also spoke how he gained confidence as a writer around the time of the solo albums. I don’t think he was holding back anything. He got on a good writing streak and put together a great rock album.

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Re: When did Ace start holding back songs for his '78 solo album?

Post by Tito » Tue May 14, 2019 9:02 pm

So Cruel wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 8:56 pm
He had Rocket Ride for Love Gun and it got rejected.
Source please? I remember him saying quite the opposite, that he wanted to keep it for his solo album but the others (and Kramer) liked it and so it ended up on Alive II.

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Re: When did Ace start holding back songs for his '78 solo album?

Post by In the Suds » Tue May 14, 2019 9:13 pm

He's got two songs on Hotter Than Hell.

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Re: When did Ace start holding back songs for his '78 solo album?

Post by Planet Caravan » Tue May 14, 2019 9:20 pm

So Cruel wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 8:56 pm
It wasn’t until his solo album was the most successful and he had the only hit that he was going to get more then 1 of his songs on a Kiss album.
He had 2.5 songs on HTH.

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Re: When did Ace start holding back songs for his '78 solo album?

Post by The Fox » Tue May 14, 2019 10:41 pm

Nately120 wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 6:23 pm
Ace having 0 writing credits on RARO made me think he did most of his stockpiling then, but that's just conjecture on my part.
So are you saying that during this time that Ace did nothing? :scratch:

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Re: When did Ace start holding back songs for his '78 solo album?

Post by So Cruel » Wed May 15, 2019 12:09 am

Planet Caravan wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 9:20 pm
So Cruel wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 8:56 pm
It wasn’t until his solo album was the most successful and he had the only hit that he was going to get more then 1 of his songs on a Kiss album.
He had 2.5 songs on HTH.

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Yes, you’re right on that. I meant songs he was gonna sing himself. By 77 he was ready to sing but not before. I don’t think Ace held back any of his solo album stuff.

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Re: When did Ace start holding back songs for his '78 solo album?

Post by So Cruel » Wed May 15, 2019 12:15 am

Tito wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 9:02 pm
So Cruel wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 8:56 pm
He had Rocket Ride for Love Gun and it got rejected.
Source please? I remember him saying quite the opposite, that he wanted to keep it for his solo album but the others (and Kramer) liked it and so it ended up on Alive II.
Hmm, maybe I’m remembering wrong then. For some reason I thought I read somewhere they rejected it for Love Gun.

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Re: When did Ace start holding back songs for his '78 solo album?

Post by Planet Caravan » Wed May 15, 2019 2:01 am

So Cruel wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 12:15 am
Tito wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 9:02 pm
So Cruel wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 8:56 pm
He had Rocket Ride for Love Gun and it got rejected.
Source please? I remember him saying quite the opposite, that he wanted to keep it for his solo album but the others (and Kramer) liked it and so it ended up on Alive II.
Hmm, maybe I’m remembering wrong then. For some reason I thought I read somewhere they rejected it for Love Gun.
I remember reading too that RR was initially rejected for Love Gun

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Re: When did Ace start holding back songs for his '78 solo album?

Post by Red_Walrus » Wed May 15, 2019 2:05 am

I swear Ace said he held back songs when he heard there were solos coming...seem to remember it was a video interview.

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Re: When did Ace start holding back songs for his '78 solo album?

Post by J-Lefty » Wed May 15, 2019 3:48 am

I don't believe for a second Ace "held back" songs. Ace was just too drunk during RARO and Love Gun to care.

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Re: When did Ace start holding back songs for his '78 solo album?

Post by J-Lefty » Wed May 15, 2019 3:50 am

Planet Caravan wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 6:10 pm
Ace has said that the reason he didn't contribute much songwriting to Destroyer and RARO was that he was partying too hard once Kiss became successful. He said he actually regrets not contributing to those albums more (probably because he missed out on songwriting royalties haha)

If he did hold back songs, it was probably only from Love Gun. And that was probably more because he was pissed off at Rocket Ride being rejected.
I'm glad Rocket Ride was rejected from Love Gun. The production on the ALIVE II Side IV is much better.

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Re: When did Ace start holding back songs for his '78 solo album?

Post by JohnBergless » Wed May 15, 2019 5:47 am

Tito wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 9:02 pm
So Cruel wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 8:56 pm
He had Rocket Ride for Love Gun and it got rejected.
Source please? I remember him saying quite the opposite, that he wanted to keep it for his solo album but the others (and Kramer) liked it and so it ended up on Alive II.
I've always thought that If he would have put that song on the KISS Ace Frehley LP - I still think to this day, if it was also combined with him staying clean and having a good work ethic, it would have propelled him over and above Gene, Paul and Peter. Ace was a guitar hero, and "New York Groove" really wasn't the kind of "guitar song" which that LP deserved as the hit song from it.

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Re: When did Ace start holding back songs for his '78 solo album?

Post by Nately120 » Wed May 15, 2019 6:35 am

The Fox wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 10:41 pm
Nately120 wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 6:23 pm
Ace having 0 writing credits on RARO made me think he did most of his stockpiling then, but that's just conjecture on my part.
So are you saying that during this time that Ace did nothing? :scratch:
No.

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Re: When did Ace start holding back songs for his '78 solo album?

Post by Hi I'm Witz » Wed May 15, 2019 6:39 am

J-Lefty wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 3:50 am
Planet Caravan wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 6:10 pm
Ace has said that the reason he didn't contribute much songwriting to Destroyer and RARO was that he was partying too hard once Kiss became successful. He said he actually regrets not contributing to those albums more (probably because he missed out on songwriting royalties haha)

If he did hold back songs, it was probably only from Love Gun. And that was probably more because he was pissed off at Rocket Ride being rejected.
I'm glad Rocket Ride was rejected from Love Gun. The production on the ALIVE II Side IV is much better.
Agreed! I actually added Rocket Ride digitally to my Ace 78 album. It sounds great with the other songs on that album. To me, including Rocket Ride elevates Ace 78 from a great album to a perfect album!

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Re: When did Ace start holding back songs for his '78 solo album?

Post by sneed78 » Wed May 15, 2019 7:55 am

ManOf1000Faces wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 8:09 pm
Ace didn't sing before "Shock Me". Which songs could he have offered for the other three to sing?
Speedin Back To My Baby - Peter

What’s On Your Mind - Paul

I’m In Need Of Love - Gene

Wiped Out - Peter

Rip It Out - Paul

Snowblind - Gene

Ozone would HAVE to be Ace singing with that title...

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Re: When did Ace start holding back songs for his '78 solo album?

Post by Crown Royal » Wed May 15, 2019 8:02 am

Were the solo albums planned in 1976?

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Re: When did Ace start holding back songs for his '78 solo album?

Post by Red_Walrus » Wed May 15, 2019 10:16 am

sneed78 wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 7:55 am
ManOf1000Faces wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 8:09 pm
Ace didn't sing before "Shock Me". Which songs could he have offered for the other three to sing?
Speedin Back To My Baby - Peter

What’s On Your Mind - Paul

I’m In Need Of Love - Gene

Wiped Out - Peter

Rip It Out - Paul

Snowblind - Gene

Ozone would HAVE to be Ace singing with that title...
Peter singing Speedin' would have been perfect

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Re: When did Ace start holding back songs for his '78 solo album?

Post by DJ Sterling Golden » Wed May 15, 2019 10:25 am

Crown Royal wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 8:02 am
Were the solo albums planned in 1976?
They were indeed. KISS solo albums were in their contract with Casablanca. When turmoil was reaching a fever pitch in 1978, in particular during the filming of Phantoms, the time came to play that solo albums card as a way of keeping shit together.

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Re: When did Ace start holding back songs for his '78 solo album?

Post by BootlegHuntr » Wed May 15, 2019 12:14 pm

Hi I'm Witz wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 6:39 am
Agreed! I actually added Rocket Ride digitally to my Ace 78 album. It sounds great with the other songs on that album. To me, including Rocket Ride elevates Ace 78 from a great album to a perfect album!
I always wanted to see Ace open a show with Rip It Out and close it with Rocket Ride.

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Re: When did Ace start holding back songs for his '78 solo album?

Post by The Fox » Wed May 15, 2019 6:06 pm

Nately120 wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 6:35 am
The Fox wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 10:41 pm
Nately120 wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 6:23 pm
Ace having 0 writing credits on RARO made me think he did most of his stockpiling then, but that's just conjecture on my part.
So are you saying that during this time that Ace did nothing? :scratch:
No.
In case you didn't get it, I was joking:


Or click here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Qpm3vZH2bk

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Re: When did Ace start holding back songs for his '78 solo album?

Post by Planet Caravan » Wed May 15, 2019 6:37 pm

Hi I'm Witz wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 6:39 am
J-Lefty wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 3:50 am
Planet Caravan wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 6:10 pm
Ace has said that the reason he didn't contribute much songwriting to Destroyer and RARO was that he was partying too hard once Kiss became successful. He said he actually regrets not contributing to those albums more (probably because he missed out on songwriting royalties haha)

If he did hold back songs, it was probably only from Love Gun. And that was probably more because he was pissed off at Rocket Ride being rejected.
I'm glad Rocket Ride was rejected from Love Gun. The production on the ALIVE II Side IV is much better.
Agreed! I actually added Rocket Ride digitally to my Ace 78 album. It sounds great with the other songs on that album. To me, including Rocket Ride elevates Ace 78 from a great album to a perfect album!
I always replace Then She Kissed Me with Rocket Ride for the last song on Love Gun. It makes the album absolutely epic.

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Re: When did Ace start holding back songs for his '78 solo album?

Post by J-Lefty » Fri May 17, 2019 4:45 am

If Ace did "hold back" songs for a future solo album then he takes a "Rocket Ride" to the front of the "worst KISS member ever list" IMO
I'm glad Gene and Paul worked him over when it came to compensation for the Reunion.

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Re: When did Ace start holding back songs for his '78 solo album?

Post by elleneff » Fri May 17, 2019 4:47 am

Well If I recall , The solo albums were planned and outlined back as far as late 75 /early 76 when Glickman Marks took over.
So the band knew in 76 they were doing solo albums (in principal) within 2-3 years, if the corporate plan worked out.

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Re: When did Ace start holding back songs for his '78 solo album?

Post by Tail of a hurricane » Fri May 17, 2019 5:57 am

sneed78 wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 7:55 am
ManOf1000Faces wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 8:09 pm
Ace didn't sing before "Shock Me". Which songs could he have offered for the other three to sing?
Speedin Back To My Baby - Peter

What’s On Your Mind - Paul

I’m In Need Of Love - Gene

Wiped Out - Peter

Rip It Out - Paul

Snowblind - Gene

Ozone would HAVE to be Ace singing with that title...
I like those, I can actually hear Pete singing “Speedin’ back..,,” pretty well.

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Re: When did Ace start holding back songs for his '78 solo album?

Post by Mad Dog » Fri May 17, 2019 12:23 pm

Tito wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 9:02 pm
So Cruel wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 8:56 pm
He had Rocket Ride for Love Gun and it got rejected.
Source please? I remember him saying quite the opposite, that he wanted to keep it for his solo album but the others (and Kramer) liked it and so it ended up on Alive II.
"Rocket Ride" was a song that Ace was considering using for a solo album after it was initially rejected while "Love Gun" was being recorded.

http://www.kissmonster.com/song_stories ... ve2_19.php

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Re: When did Ace start holding back songs for his '78 solo album?

Post by DJ Sterling Golden » Fri May 17, 2019 12:29 pm

elleneff wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 4:47 am
Well If I recall , The solo albums were planned and outlined back as far as late 75 /early 76 when Glickman Marks took over.
So the band knew in 76 they were doing solo albums (in principal) within 2-3 years, if the corporate plan worked out.
Correct. 1978 was simply the time to play that card, at a time when band turmoil was hitting a fever pitch.

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Re: When did Ace start holding back songs for his '78 solo album?

Post by aceshigh » Fri May 17, 2019 1:08 pm

J-Lefty wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 4:45 am
If Ace did "hold back" songs for a future solo album then he takes a "Rocket Ride" to the front of the "worst KISS member ever list" IMO
I'm glad Gene and Paul worked him over when it came to compensation for the Reunion.
Get a grip :lol:

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Re: When did Ace start holding back songs for his '78 solo album?

Post by EggFlip » Fri May 17, 2019 1:11 pm

Ace's solo album is the only kiss album without fillers in my opinion

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Re: When did Ace start holding back songs for his '78 solo album?

Post by PterCriss » Fri May 17, 2019 8:06 pm

Planet Caravan wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 6:10 pm
Ace has said that the reason he didn't contribute much songwriting to Destroyer and RARO was that he was partying too hard once Kiss became successful. He said he actually regrets not contributing to those albums more (probably because he missed out on songwriting royalties haha)

If he did hold back songs, it was probably only from Love Gun. And that was probably more because he was pissed off at Rocket Ride being rejected.
Did Ace say he was pissed off? that RR was rejected? I thought it didn't make the album because Shock Me had made it.

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Re: When did Ace start holding back songs for his '78 solo album?

Post by PterCriss » Fri May 17, 2019 8:09 pm

Planet Caravan wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 6:37 pm
Hi I'm Witz wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 6:39 am
J-Lefty wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 3:50 am
Planet Caravan wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 6:10 pm
Ace has said that the reason he didn't contribute much songwriting to Destroyer and RARO was that he was partying too hard once Kiss became successful. He said he actually regrets not contributing to those albums more (probably because he missed out on songwriting royalties haha)

If he did hold back songs, it was probably only from Love Gun. And that was probably more because he was pissed off at Rocket Ride being rejected.
I'm glad Rocket Ride was rejected from Love Gun. The production on the ALIVE II Side IV is much better.
Agreed! I actually added Rocket Ride digitally to my Ace 78 album. It sounds great with the other songs on that album. To me, including Rocket Ride elevates Ace 78 from a great album to a perfect album!
I always replace Then She Kissed Me with Rocket Ride for the last song on Love Gun. It makes the album absolutely epic.
Never thought of doing that. What other songs were rejected for Love Gun?

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Re: When did Ace start holding back songs for his '78 solo album?

Post by jkiss » Fri May 17, 2019 9:30 pm

DJ Sterling Golden wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 10:25 am
Crown Royal wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 8:02 am
Were the solo albums planned in 1976?
They were indeed. KISS solo albums were in their contract with Casablanca. When turmoil was reaching a fever pitch in 1978, in particular during the filming of Phantoms, the time came to play that solo albums card as a way of keeping shit together.
Image

Yes, something well-known to be coming soon throughout the year. Although, I'm sure more than enough negativity showed through the cracks whenever either Ace or Peter gave interviews & that is one thing (of a few) that certainly fueled rumors that they were breaking-up + the fact they were doing solo records. And as typically whenever someone in a group was heard to be doing a solo record ...that usually meant they were leaving before long. I recall it confusing fans quite a bit at the time; probably a bad thing to announce so far in advance (in hindsight). And even Gene raced over to “Rolling Stone” & got the word out that they were NOT breaking-up, etc; in light of the persistent hotly debated & often inquired about rumor that they indeed were about to pretty soon.

Anyway, some fans were quite fast to suspect there was trouble brewing behind-the-scenes of KISS. And of course, they were right.

:idea:
Last edited by jkiss on Sat May 18, 2019 9:54 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: When did Ace start holding back songs for his '78 solo album?

Post by jkiss » Fri May 17, 2019 10:03 pm

Xcarnation wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 7:49 pm
He said he was writing for his solo album since RARO and if I remember correct he said thats why there were no songs from him on it.
Yes, he stated it in a video interview & around the time of the “Fire & Water” thing with Paul. And that during "Rock & Roll Over" was when he really began setting music & ideas, etc. aside for his KISS Solo Album.

:thumleft:

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Re: When did Ace start holding back songs for his '78 solo album?

Post by Tito » Sat May 18, 2019 1:40 am

Mad Dog wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 12:23 pm
Tito wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 9:02 pm
So Cruel wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 8:56 pm
He had Rocket Ride for Love Gun and it got rejected.
Source please? I remember him saying quite the opposite, that he wanted to keep it for his solo album but the others (and Kramer) liked it and so it ended up on Alive II.
"Rocket Ride" was a song that Ace was considering using for a solo album after it was initially rejected while "Love Gun" was being recorded.

http://www.kissmonster.com/song_stories ... ve2_19.php
I have nothing but respect for Mr. Gill's info but that is just him saying that. I'm not saying that never happened, but I do not recall seeing anyone in or close to the band having said that ever.

On the other hand, here's one Mr. Frehley, in Behind the Mask, p. 296: "I originally wrote the song for my solo album, but when we were putting Alive II together and decided to have a studio side with new songs, I gave it up for the album."

The idea of the band and Kramer deciding to leave out "Rocket Ride" (if it was on the table) and include "Then She Kissed Me" doesn't seem to add up.

As for Ace holding back songs, it seems obvious to me that he did. There is no way he wrote all those amazing songs for the solo album between filming the movie (which according to Gene :lol: is when they got the idea -- I know, I know...) and recording the album. We all know he was never the most prolific song writer as far as quantity went.

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Re: When did Ace start holding back songs for his '78 solo album?

Post by LordThurisaz » Sat May 18, 2019 10:20 am

@9:50


Or click here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_I7oho55Sqg
Tito wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 1:40 am
The idea of the band and Kramer deciding to leave out "Rocket Ride" (if it was on the table) and include "Then She Kissed Me" doesn't seem to add up.
They should've done Jailhouse Rock, which if memory serves, was another cover song they were contemplating, but I'm not sure if it was for LG or AII.

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Re: When did Ace start holding back songs for his '78 solo album?

Post by steve » Sat May 18, 2019 4:38 pm

Rocket Ride is a magnificent song, light years ahead of Shock Me. (See what I did there?)

Some Frehley songs would have greatly improved Destroyer and Rock And Roll Over, the latter of which needs all the help it can get.

Ace should have sung lead on his own material since day one. It makes no sense for Gene (a non drinker) to sing Cold Gin.

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