Peter the hypocrite

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Re: Peter the hypocrite

Post by battra » Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:37 am

caligari wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:52 pm
Can we agree that ALL 4 of them are very flawed human beings? And probably not worth half the adulation they receive...
That's what I'm trying to do here, but I was given back a list of bad things Peter did. :)

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Re: Peter the hypocrite

Post by Bandit1974 » Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:32 am

The Demon wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:39 pm
Regardless of how much Gene and Paul could have given the man for the tour, that doesn't take away that it was a second chance he probably never expected to get, and arguably didn't even deserve.
Peter Criss was the original drummer for KISS. Therefore, he absolutely "deserved" to be there.

The Demon wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:39 pm
Gene and Paul didn't have a god damned thing to do with him physically and emotionally abusing his wives, pissing off every musician he tried collaborating with, and alienating people he'd previously had throughout his life, like Stan Penridge, the man who wrote a sizable amount of "his" songs.
Did Paul Stanley tell you to say that, Buttboy?

Perhaps his ex-wives were a pain in the ass? I don't really know, and neither do you, Chief.

Anyway, his personal life with ex-wives has to do with his drumming in KISS. Since you opened that door, I would argue that Paul has a much bigger problem with his personal life.


The Demon wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:39 pm
Peter had no problem leeching free money off of Gene and Paul all throughout the 80's,
Are you referring to the money he received as a business partner in KISS after he was fired from KISS? What was he supposed to do, happily tell Paul, Gene, and Ace to keep all the money and divvy it up between them? Is that what Paul Stanley or Gene Simmons would have done if they were fired from KISS?

And don't forget that Paul, Gene, and Ace were also entitled to whatever Peter made during that time.

The Demon wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:39 pm
and then selling his likeness to get a little more out of them when that well dried up, which he also subsequently began to immediately piss away.

In order to participate in the "Reunion" tour, both Peter and Ace were required to sell their makeup designs to Paul and Gene. Paul and Gene made it very clear that was non-negotiable. Other than saying he is "the one and only Catman," I don't recall Peter saying anything against Paul and Gene for it.


The Demon wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:39 pm
I can't take the man seriously when he talks about going through a period of darkness like that, due largely to his own actions, and then complains when he gets a helping hand from the very people he fucked up with in the first place.

What do you do for a living, Demon? Do you expect me to believe that If you found out that your bosses AND fellow employees tricked you into thinking you were getting paid fairly - which means they were ALL making more money than you - you wouldn't complain about it?

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Re: Peter the hypocrite

Post by Fartbone » Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:55 am

chopping wood

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Re: Peter the hypocrite

Post by The Demon » Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:37 pm

battra wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:37 am
The Demon wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:39 pm
battra wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:17 pm
I think it's important to remember, the four original members of Kiss aren't precisely great people.
Right, and it's also important to remember that a deflection doesn't necessarily refute a point.

Regardless of how much Gene and Paul could have given the man for the tour, that doesn't take away that it was a second chance he probably never expected to get, and arguably didn't even deserve. Gene and Paul didn't have a god damned thing to do with him physically and emotionally abusing his wives, pissing off every musician he tried collaborating with, and alienating people he'd previously had throughout his life, like Stan Penridge, the man who wrote a sizable amount of "his" songs. Peter had no problem leeching free money off of Gene and Paul all throughout the 80's, and then selling his likeness to get a little more out of them when that well dried up, which he also subsequently began to immediately piss away. I can't take the man seriously when he talks about going through a period of darkness like that, due largely to his own actions, and then complains when he gets a helping hand from the very people he fucked up with in the first place.
You're right. Peter has done some horrible things.

Gene has done some horrible things.

If you drag one, you gotta drag them all.
OK. Two different topics.

That said, I don't recall hearing multiple stories of Gene smacking Shannon, Cher, Diana Ross, etc. around, so not sure why we'd be "dragging" him on equal terms compared to Peter there.

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Re: Peter the hypocrite

Post by battra » Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:51 pm

The Demon wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:37 pm
OK. Two different topics.

That said, I don't recall hearing multiple stories of Gene smacking Shannon, Cher, Diana Ross, etc. around, so not sure why we'd be "dragging" him on equal terms compared to Peter there.
On that particular topic, agreed.

However, Gene Simmons has many, many foibles on which to drag. His abject hypocrisy, his taking advantage of others, his lying, and his mistreatment of his family all immediately come to mind, but yes, we've never heard any sort of physical abuse.

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Re: Peter the hypocrite

Post by The Demon » Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:56 pm

Bandit1974 wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:32 am

Peter Criss was the original drummer for KISS. Therefore, he absolutely "deserved" to be there.
... if we're going to have a discussion here, you're going to have to actually read what I wrote and comprehend it on terms that might go against what you believe.

Did Paul Stanley tell you to say that, Buttboy?
... fucking seriously dude??? :lol:
Perhaps his ex-wives were a pain in the ass? I don't really know, and neither do you, Chief.
Wow. So because a woman is "a pain in the ass", you'd be justified in beating the shit out of them. Alllllrighty then.
Anyway, his personal life with ex-wives has to do with his drumming in KISS.
Uh huh, I mentioned it as a point of personal contempt I have with the guy. He whines about his failed marriages, when his wives would cheat on him, but leaves out his Ike Turner tendencies, in addition to his own infidelity, naturally.
Since you opened that door, I would argue that Paul has a much bigger problem with his personal life.
I mean, I'm sure part of Paul would have probably liked to have smacked Pamela Bowen a time or two, but did he actually do it?

Deflection is a poor tactic.

Are you referring to the money he received as a business partner in KISS after he was fired from KISS?
Yep.
What was he supposed to do, happily tell Paul, Gene, and Ace to keep all the money and divvy it up between them?
No, but it shows that he's quite willing to hold people accountable to deals they signed when it benefits him, especially when it's a 7 year free lunch. You'd think the man wouldn't balk at a 7 figure salary offered to him years after that well dried up.
Is that what Paul Stanley or Gene Simmons would have done if they were fired from KISS?
Nope, although I'm pretty sure they wouldn't fire themselves.

You keep discussing Paul and Gene as if they were equal to Peter.
And don't forget that Paul, Gene, and Ace were also entitled to whatever Peter made during that time.
You're correct. It's why Ace waited as long as he did to release the Frehley's Comet album - and I'd almost be willing to bet money that there was considerably more negativity coming from one side than the other, when living up to that deal. Not that it really mattered, Peter's not a songwriter and quickly set about alienating the people who were, so there wasn't much to be made from him anyway.

In order to participate in the "Reunion" tour, both Peter and Ace were required to sell their makeup designs to Paul and Gene.
Take another look at that KISS My Ass album cover. Peter had no problem selling out the likeness for Gene and Paul to use as they pleased, years before the reunion.
Other than saying he is "the one and only Catman," I don't recall Peter saying anything against Paul and Gene for it.
You're shitting me, right?
What do you do for a living, Demon? Do you expect me to believe that If you found out that your bosses AND fellow employees tricked you into thinking you were getting paid fairly - which means they were ALL making more money than you - you wouldn't complain about it?
Tell you what - if I land in a position to land 7.5 million dollars a year(for doing the worst work of my professional career, no less), I'll be sure to let you know whether or not I think I'm getting screwed over.

You're trying to compare situations that are not comparable. You're looking at KISS as "four guys making music" and applying common person logic to it. That's not the way it works. Regardless of which mainstream bands are "in it for the music" and which are not, it becomes a major international operation at that point. There can be no fucking around with that. Peter and Ace returned as very highly paid employees of said operation. That they got greedy, or that they didn't hold out for more money in the first place, is their own fault - but they were not unfairly paid.

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Re: Peter the hypocrite

Post by metaldad » Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:00 pm

All this who should have gotten paid what makes me think
Paul should have made more than Gene on that tour
Gene was non existent from 83- 91
Paul was there every step of the way

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Re: Peter the hypocrite

Post by The Demon » Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:03 pm

battra wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:51 pm
The Demon wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:37 pm
OK. Two different topics.

That said, I don't recall hearing multiple stories of Gene smacking Shannon, Cher, Diana Ross, etc. around, so not sure why we'd be "dragging" him on equal terms compared to Peter there.
On that particular topic, agreed.

However, Gene Simmons has many, many foibles on which to drag. His abject hypocrisy, his taking advantage of others, his lying, and his mistreatment of his family all immediately come to mind, but yes, we've never heard any sort of physical abuse.
Well, I've said it before. The reason Peter comes off as particularly irksome to me is that he should have gotten some kind of dose of reality when his situation took a turn for the worse. Gene's had the luxury of being able to pretty much maintain his livelihood consistently as he has for nearly 45 years now, Peter not so much, and you'd figure a guy who spent as long as he did in ruins wouldn't be so unappreciative of the chance he was given later in life to turn it all around. If his situation had been different, he'd maintained his success or at least his livelihood away from KISS, I could understand why he'd look at it different - but after 10 years of financial ruin, failed marriages, ruined friendships, and nearly all opportunities for music gone away (despite how often he tells himself "I wrote KISS' biggest hit", seems like he couldn't "write" much else)...

I also have contempt for the way he pretty much broke the band as a performing act all over again, to nearly permanent effect, but that's a different story.

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Re: Peter the hypocrite

Post by The Demon » Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:06 pm

metaldad wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:00 pm
Gene was non existent from 83- 91
Not really true. It's become easy to see things that way because Gene was trying to have an acting career at the time, but he always had his shit together with KISS' touring activities and likely had a bigger involvement with the albums of that time than what was assumed or implied.

People point to the songs Gene supposedly didn't play bass on as further evidence, but they leave out the Gene songs that Paul didn't play on.

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Re: Peter the hypocrite

Post by metaldad » Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:31 pm

The Demon wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:06 pm
metaldad wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:00 pm
Gene was non existent from 83- 91
Not really true. It's become easy to see things that way because Gene was trying to have an acting career at the time, but he always had his shit together with KISS' touring activities and likely had a bigger involvement with the albums of that time than what was assumed or implied.

People point to the songs Gene supposedly didn't play bass on as further evidence, but they leave out the Gene songs that Paul didn't play on.
Songwriting wise he was nowhere to be seen
Those songs are atrocious
He was there in body only
Paul did everything

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Re: Peter the hypocrite

Post by The Demon » Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:49 pm

metaldad wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:31 pm
The Demon wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:06 pm
metaldad wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:00 pm
Gene was non existent from 83- 91
Not really true. It's become easy to see things that way because Gene was trying to have an acting career at the time, but he always had his shit together with KISS' touring activities and likely had a bigger involvement with the albums of that time than what was assumed or implied.

People point to the songs Gene supposedly didn't play bass on as further evidence, but they leave out the Gene songs that Paul didn't play on.
Songwriting wise he was nowhere to be seen
Those songs are atrocious
He was there in body only
Paul did everything
I suppose, I dig 'em myself, always have.

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Re: Peter the hypocrite

Post by stutterer » Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:55 pm

So who would win in a fight? Paul or Peter? Gene or Ace? Maybe that requires a separate thread.

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Re: Peter the hypocrite

Post by So Cruel » Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:57 pm

The funny thing is that if you listen to them all now Peter is the only one who actually seems down to earth, happy, and content. He genuinely seems to be in a real good place in his life.

Paul to me seems delusional. Putting others down to prop himself up. Releasing a self help book while needing professional help his whole adult life.

Ace is a very likeable guy, but he thinks he’s some superstar while playing bars to 1000 people.

Gene thinks the world revolves around him. His interviews are vomit inducing.

Amazing Peter is really the only one who is somewhat normal.

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Re: Peter the hypocrite

Post by The Demon » Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:06 pm

So Cruel wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:57 pm
Gene thinks the world revolves around him. His interviews are vomit inducing.
I honestly that that whole thing is part of Gene's public act. He knows that ridiculous people aren't going to actually believe and preach that he's an actual Satanic agent made flesh anymore, so he finds other ways to drum up controversy to keep himself relevant - and that one certainly has stuck, hasn't it?

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure the man is probably quite arrogant in his private life to at least some degree, but I don't necessarily think that that's the actual side of him being presented in his public interviews.

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Re: Peter the hypocrite

Post by Bandit1974 » Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:06 pm

The Demon wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:56 pm
I mean, I'm sure part of Paul would have probably liked to have smacked Pamela Bowen a time or two, but did he actually do it?
Didn't he? I don't know and neither do you. There are plenty of women out there that have been smacked and never told anyone.

Statistically, women are more likely to hit a man than vice-versa. Perhaps Peter smacked his ex-wife after she physically attacked him because he was being a pain in the ass? I know I have been in that situation.

The Demon wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:56 pm
No, but it shows that he's quite willing to hold people accountable to deals they signed when it benefits him, especially when it's a 7 year free lunch. You'd think the man wouldn't balk at a 7 figure salary offered to him years after that well dried up.
He didn't balk. If he did, there would not have been a "Reunion" tour.

The Demon wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:56 pm
You keep discussing Paul and Gene as if they were equal to Peter.
They were. From 1973 - 198?, Paul, Ace, Gene, and Peter were legally all equal partners in a band called KISS.

The Demon wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:56 pm
Take another look at that KISS My Ass album cover. Peter had no problem selling out the likeness for Gene and Paul to use as they pleased, years before the reunion.
You're right. It was *Ace* who was required to do that, because they gained ownership of Peter's makeup design when they bought out his share of KISS in the mid 1980s.

How do you know "Peter had no problem selling out the likeness?" See, that's your problem right there. You automatically make these negative assumptions that make Peter look as bad as humanly possible. Paul and Gene have taught you well, Buttboy. If you had any critical thinking skills, you would see that it wouldn't be a completely foolish decision on Peter's part to sell his makeup design with his buyout from KISS considering there wasn't a market for the original members in makeup in the 1980s and hardly anyone cared about KISS anymore.

Perhaps the only way Peter would allow Paul and Gene to buy him out of his contract with KISS is if they also purchased his makeup design? Or maybe Paul and Gene paid him handsomely? Again, you don't know that and neither do I.


The Demon wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:56 pm
Tell you what - if I land in a position to land 7.5 million dollars a year(for doing the worst work of my professional career, no less), I'll be sure to let you know whether or not I think I'm getting screwed over.
Is 7.5 million dollars the amount Peter made? Are you his accountant? That's a lot of money, but what did he have to deal with from Paul and Gene during that time? If they had fired Peter, I might could understand your point. But Peter quit the band on his own, so it must have been more than he could stand. Ace quit again a year later, so either the money wasn't nearly as good as you think, or it simply wasn't good enough to deal with Paul and/or Gene.

The Demon wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:56 pm
Well, I've said it before. The reason Peter comes off as particularly irksome to me is that he should have gotten some kind of dose of reality when his situation took a turn for the worse. Gene's had the luxury of being able to pretty much maintain his livelihood consistently as he has for nearly 45 years now, Peter not so much, and you'd figure a guy who spent as long as he did in ruins wouldn't be so unappreciative of the chance he was given later in life to turn it all around.
Paul Stanley - the biggest Peter Criss critic of all time - said that Peter was extremely appreciative and grateful to be back in KISS during the "Reunion" tour.

The Demon wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:56 pm
If his situation had been different, he'd maintained his success or at least his livelihood away from KISS, I could understand why he'd look at it different - but after 10 years of financial ruin, failed marriages, ruined friendships, and nearly all opportunities for music gone away (despite how often he tells himself "I wrote KISS' biggest hit", seems like he couldn't "write" much else)...
Did Billy Ray Cyrus REALLY write "Achy Breaky Heart?"
Did Survivor REALLY write "Eye of the Tiger?"
Did The Knack REALLY write "My Sharona?"

I don't know exactly how much of "Beth" Peter Criss actually wrote, and neither do you. But "Beth" isn't a particularly difficult tune to write. There are MANY artists out there would only had one hit song. They are called "One Hit Wonders."
Last edited by Bandit1974 on Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:24 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: Peter the hypocrite

Post by KF73 » Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:12 pm

Bandit1974 wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 4:54 pm
KF73 wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:59 pm
Yiggity wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:35 pm
In his book, he bitched that the four of them didn't make equal money on the reunion tour but then mentions that when he was in the short lived "Balls of Fire" band, he wanted to make more than the rest of them because he was the bigger draw.
Like it or not, Gene, Paul and Ace were the bigger draw on the reunion. Yes, it was about the original four back together in makeup, but he still was the least important of the four. Case in point, when Eddie Kanon stepped in for that one show, the audience barely seemed to care. If it had been one of the others having a substitute on the Reunion tour, people would've flipped out. Fake Gene??? Fake Paul??? Fake Ace????? Hell no, but fake Peter? ...meh kinda sucks but I'll deal with it.
He's a hypocrite.
Can't say I disagree with you. In fact, you make a very good point!
It's not a "good point" because it isn't true.
I should have clarified. I was actually talking about the Ed Kanon deal. If Gene or Paul were the one with the replacement for that show in Columbus people would have sh** themselves.

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Re: Peter the hypocrite

Post by Bandit1974 » Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:19 pm

KF73 wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:12 pm
Bandit1974 wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 4:54 pm
KF73 wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:59 pm
Yiggity wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:35 pm
In his book, he bitched that the four of them didn't make equal money on the reunion tour but then mentions that when he was in the short lived "Balls of Fire" band, he wanted to make more than the rest of them because he was the bigger draw.
Like it or not, Gene, Paul and Ace were the bigger draw on the reunion. Yes, it was about the original four back together in makeup, but he still was the least important of the four. Case in point, when Eddie Kanon stepped in for that one show, the audience barely seemed to care. If it had been one of the others having a substitute on the Reunion tour, people would've flipped out. Fake Gene??? Fake Paul??? Fake Ace????? Hell no, but fake Peter? ...meh kinda sucks but I'll deal with it.
He's a hypocrite.
Can't say I disagree with you. In fact, you make a very good point!
It's not a "good point" because it isn't true.
I should have clarified. I was actually talking about the Ed Kanon deal. If Gene or Paul were the one with the replacement for that show in Columbus people would have sh** themselves.
I don't think so.

I think it would be worse of KISS cancelled the show at the last minute.

Sure, some would be disappointed, but I think most would be understanding. The "Reunion" tour was mostly die-hard KISS fans. I really don't think they would storm out and demand a refund in large numbers if they thought either Paul or Gene were physically in too much pain to play or too sick to play.

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Re: Peter the hypocrite

Post by The Demon » Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:36 pm

Bandit1974 wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:06 pm
I mean, I'm sure part of Paul would have probably liked to have smacked Pamela Bowen a time or two, but did he actually do it?
Didn't he? I don't know and neither do you. There are plenty of women out there that have been smacked and never told anyone. [/quote]

Right, but we do know that Peter did it. Key difference here.
Statistically, women are more likely to hit a man than vice-versa.
Statistics have very little relevance with the actions of an individual person.
Perhaps Peter smacked his ex-wife after she physically attacked him because he was being a pain in the ass?

Yeah, except he made it a habit of doing that. Probably smacked his groupies around too, but I suppose that would be conjecture.
I know I have been in that situation.
Please do not tell me anymore about this, I don't wish to know.
He didn't balk. If he did, there would not have been a "Reunion" tour.
And why didn't he balk, I wonder?

From 1973 - 198?, they were all legally equal partners in a band called KISS.
Right. Doesn't take away that he spent the majority of that time getting a (contractually owed) free lunch from the people he claims to have ruined him. He's OK with accepting money from material he had no part in at all, but he's got a problem with getting 7.5 million bucks (which would be higher in today's currency) to tour the world and do fuck all but play drums, sing and show up for publicity.
How do you know "Peter had no problem selling out the likeness?"
Obviously it held little value to him.
See, that's your problem right there.
Is it?
You automatically make these negative assumptions that make Peter look as bad as humanly possible.
... did I accuse him of genocide or something? I essentially stated that he's a whiny hypocrite who's been known to beat women. Fairly undesirable qualities in a person, but hardly the worst example of a human being.
I am sure Paul and Gene love you
Man, I hope so, that would make my day to find that out.
Buttboy.
... again I ask: fucking really, dude? :lol:
If you had any critical thinking skills
I do.
, you would see that it wouldn't be a completely foolish decision on Peter's part to sell his makeup design
Never said it was, but he seems to have gone into it thinking that he'd get the money and they wouldn't use it as they pleased. Dude cared more about money than his art, which I wouldn't have such an issue with if he didn't screech to the world that it was the other way around.
Perhaps the only way Peter would allow Paul and Gene to buy him out of his contract with KISS is if they also purchased his makeup design? Or maybe Paul and Gene paid him handsomely? Again, you don't know that and neither do I.
OK. I don't have a problem with that, in fact I don't care at all. The subsequent Criscoula waterworks concerning the subject are what I roll my eyes at.

Is 7.5 million dollars the amount Peter made?
Rough estimate, before taxes of course. Reunion tour lasted 192 dates and he was paid between 30-40 grand for each show (I'm not sure of the exact figure right now, maybe someone would like to assist me if I'm mistaken), 40 grand before taxes would be 7.6 million.
Are you his accountant?
Nope.
That's a lot of money, but what did he have to deal with from Paul and Gene during that time?
... showing up to rehearse, play shows, and engaging in the publicity campaign? Something along those lines, perhaps?
If they had fired Peter, I might could understand your point. But Peter quit the band on his own, so it must have been more than he could stand.
He quit the band toward the end of the Farewell tour but he most certainly did not walk away from it after World Domination.
Ace quit again a year later, so either the money wasn't nearly as good as you think, or it simply wasn't worth it anymore.
Not talking about Ace here.
Paul Stanley - the biggest Peter Criss critic of all time - said that Peter was extremely appreciative and grateful to be back in KISS.
Yes, publicly. When it still served him to do so.

The stories from both are quite different now.

Did Billy Ray Cyrus REALLY write "Achy Breaky Heart?"
Even if he did, I wouldn't care. Whoever did write that song polluted the earth by doing so.
Did Survivor REALLY write "Eye of the Tiger?"
Did The Knack REALLY write "My Sharona?"
Again with the deflections.

Regardless, Peter claims he REALLY DID write "Beth", which he also claims is "KISS' biggest hit", and one of those statements has a slight grain of truth to it, while the latter is not true (considering that there's an actual rest of the planet outside of the U.S.).

He says it to try and prove some point about how he's a "songwriter", when we have actual objective evidence in the form of his actual solo career that that isn't true. Live To Win might have been a piece of shit, but Paul at least had a creative hand in it. Half of Asshole is songs Gene wrote for prior albums. Ace's solo material is work he at least has a consistent hand in. Peter's the one who comes up short. He doesn't need Paul to talk about how he can't write songs, he proved it all by himself.
I don't know exactly how much of "Beth" Peter Criss actually wrote, and neither do you.
I've got an idea of it. I've heard "Beck." That was the original version, and I'd say it's a fairly safe bet that, much like most of "Peter's songs", it's largely the creation of Stan Penridge.

Compare that to the almost unrecognizably different Destroyer version, which is largely the work of Bob Ezrin.

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Re: Peter the hypocrite

Post by The Demon » Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:37 pm

Bandit1974 wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:06 pm
I mean, I'm sure part of Paul would have probably liked to have smacked Pamela Bowen a time or two, but did he actually do it?
Didn't he? I don't know and neither do you. There are plenty of women out there that have been smacked and never told anyone. [/quote]

Right, but we do know that Peter did it. Key difference here.
Statistically, women are more likely to hit a man than vice-versa.
Statistics have very little relevance with the actions of an individual person.
Perhaps Peter smacked his ex-wife after she physically attacked him because he was being a pain in the ass?
Yeah, except he made it a habit of doing that. Probably smacked his groupies around too, but I suppose that would be conjecture.
I know I have been in that situation.
Please do not tell me anymore about this, I don't wish to know.
He didn't balk. If he did, there would not have been a "Reunion" tour.
And why didn't he balk, I wonder?

From 1973 - 198?, they were all legally equal partners in a band called KISS.
Right. Doesn't take away that he spent the majority of that time getting a (contractually owed) free lunch from the people he claims to have ruined him. He's OK with accepting money from material he had no part in at all, but he's got a problem with getting 7.5 million bucks (which would be higher in today's currency) to tour the world and do fuck all but play drums, sing and show up for publicity.
How do you know "Peter had no problem selling out the likeness?"
Obviously it held little value to him.
See, that's your problem right there.
Is it?
You automatically make these negative assumptions that make Peter look as bad as humanly possible.
... did I accuse him of genocide or something? I essentially stated that he's a whiny hypocrite who's been known to beat women. Fairly undesirable qualities in a person, but hardly the worst example of a human being.
I am sure Paul and Gene love you
Man, I hope so, that would make my day to find that out.
Buttboy.
... again I ask: fucking really, dude? :lol:
If you had any critical thinking skills
I do.
, you would see that it wouldn't be a completely foolish decision on Peter's part to sell his makeup design
Never said it was, but he seems to have gone into it thinking that he'd get the money and they wouldn't use it as they pleased. Dude cared more about money than his art, which I wouldn't have such an issue with if he didn't screech to the world that it was the other way around.
Perhaps the only way Peter would allow Paul and Gene to buy him out of his contract with KISS is if they also purchased his makeup design? Or maybe Paul and Gene paid him handsomely? Again, you don't know that and neither do I.
OK. I don't have a problem with that, in fact I don't care at all. The subsequent Criscoula waterworks concerning the subject are what I roll my eyes at.

Is 7.5 million dollars the amount Peter made?
Rough estimate, before taxes of course. Reunion tour lasted 192 dates and he was paid between 30-40 grand for each show (I'm not sure of the exact figure right now, maybe someone would like to assist me if I'm mistaken), 40 grand before taxes would be 7.6 million.
Are you his accountant?
Nope.
That's a lot of money, but what did he have to deal with from Paul and Gene during that time?
... showing up to rehearse, play shows, and engaging in the publicity campaign? Something along those lines, perhaps?
If they had fired Peter, I might could understand your point. But Peter quit the band on his own, so it must have been more than he could stand.
He quit the band toward the end of the Farewell tour but he most certainly did not walk away from it after World Domination.
Ace quit again a year later, so either the money wasn't nearly as good as you think, or it simply wasn't worth it anymore.
Not talking about Ace here.
Paul Stanley - the biggest Peter Criss critic of all time - said that Peter was extremely appreciative and grateful to be back in KISS.
Yes, publicly. When it still served him to do so.

The stories from both are quite different now.

Did Billy Ray Cyrus REALLY write "Achy Breaky Heart?"
Even if he did, I wouldn't care. Whoever did write that song polluted the earth by doing so.
Did Survivor REALLY write "Eye of the Tiger?"
Did The Knack REALLY write "My Sharona?"
Again with the deflections.

Regardless, Peter claims he REALLY DID write "Beth", which he also claims is "KISS' biggest hit", and one of those statements has a slight grain of truth to it, while the latter is not true (considering that there's an actual rest of the planet outside of the U.S.).

He says it to try and prove some point about how he's a "songwriter", when we have actual objective evidence in the form of his actual solo career that that isn't true. Live To Win might have been a piece of shit, but Paul at least had a creative hand in it. Half of Asshole is songs Gene wrote for prior albums. Ace's solo material is work he at least has a consistent hand in. Peter's the one who comes up short. He doesn't need Paul to talk about how he can't write songs, he proved it all by himself.
I don't know exactly how much of "Beth" Peter Criss actually wrote, and neither do you.
I've got an idea of it. I've heard "Beck." That was the original version, and I'd say it's a fairly safe bet that, much like most of "Peter's songs", it's largely the creation of Stan Penridge.

Compare that to the almost unrecognizably different Destroyer version, which is largely the work of Bob Ezrin.

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Re: Peter the hypocrite

Post by 41Mets » Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:12 pm

Without Peter Criss, Beth does not become Kiss' most important song. He brought it to the band and Ezrin's reworked version contains actual phone conversation quotes from him and Lydia. It's also been documented that he came up with the melody. Most importantly, he performed it. Peter is not a songwriter but Beth is a song that was delivered by him and features him. It hit big at a pivotal time for the band.

As for what happened with his past wives, of course that is totally unacceptable. but Peter is very happily married now and there does not seem to be any trouble anymore. He is tremendously appreciative of the fans, which shows he is indeed thankful for his place in band history. I think he is in a good place now, and shows his gratitude to those who appreciate him the most.

Paul absolutely seems to hate Peter, more than ever after his book came out. I believe he absolutely regrets ever having him in the band at this point. But he did sign up to work with him extensively, twice, so he had to have some sort of original respect for his abilities and for what he brought to the band to start with.

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Re: Peter the hypocrite

Post by Bandit1974 » Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:36 pm

The Demon wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:37 pm
Bandit1974 wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:06 pm
Didn't he? I don't know and neither do you. There are plenty of women out there that have been smacked and never told anyone.
Right, but we do know that Peter did it. Key difference here.
Why, because his pissed off ex-wife said so? We all know how how "truthful" they can get when they take you to court and want half of your money.

The Demon wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:37 pm
Bandit1974 wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:06 pm
He didn't balk. If he did, there would not have been a "Reunion" tour.
And why didn't he balk, I wonder?
Probably because he had a chance to get back with the band that he once loved, to do better this time, and hopefully find fame and success again? His attitude and actions during the Reunion tour certainly support that.

The Demon wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:37 pm
Doesn't take away that he spent the majority of that time getting a (contractually owed) free lunch from the people he claims to have ruined him. He's OK with accepting money from material he had no part in at all, but he's got a problem with getting 7.5 million bucks (which would be higher in today's currency) to tour the world and do fuck all but play drums, sing and show up for publicity.
You have a warped sense of reality, Buttboy.

The Demon wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:37 pm
Bandit1974 wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:06 pm
How do you know "Peter had no problem selling out the likeness?"
Obviously it held little value to him.
It didn't? How much did he get for it?

The Demon wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:37 pm
Bandit1974 wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:06 pm
you would see that it wouldn't be a completely foolish decision on Peter's part to sell his makeup design
Never said it was, but he seems to have gone into it thinking that he'd get the money and they wouldn't use it as they pleased. Dude cared more about money than his art, which I wouldn't have such an issue with if he didn't screech to the world that it was the other way around.
I don't think any of them - even Paul and Gene - ever thought of the idea of putting that makeup on an imposter. I suspect the makeup design was seen as something that would be used for marketing purposes. Knowing Peter's personality, I really don't he would have sold his makeup design if he thought Paul and Gene might put it on someone else.


The Demon wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:37 pm
He quit the band toward the end of the Farewell tour but he most certainly did not walk away from it after World Domination.
Completely different situation. In order to participate in that tour, KISS had to have at least 3 original members. (I wonder why Paul and Gene have so much trouble keeping people in KISS?) Ace refused, so they got Peter. I am quite sure Peter didn't come back to KISS if he wasn't paid fairly this time. After that tour was over, they decided to replace Peter for someone who would take orders better and take lesser pay.

The Demon wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:37 pm
Bandit1974 wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:06 pm
Ace quit again a year later, so either the money wasn't nearly as good as you think, or it simply wasn't worth it anymore.
Not talking about Ace here.
It's all relative. It's unlikely that both Peter AND Ace would leave KISS again if the situation was as rosy and lucrative for them as you make it out to be.


The Demon wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:37 pm
Bandit1974 wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:06 pm
Did Billy Ray Cyrus REALLY write "Achy Breaky Heart?"
Did Survivor REALLY write "Eye of the Tiger?"
Did The Knack REALLY write "My Sharona?"
Again with the deflections.

Regardless, Peter claims he REALLY DID write "Beth", which he also claims is "KISS' biggest hit", and one of those statements has a slight grain of truth to it, while the latter is not true (considering that there's an actual rest of the planet outside of the U.S.).
Maybe Peter REALLY DID write "Beth." Everybody gets a sweet hand every once in a while.

The Demon wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:37 pm
Bandit1974 wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:06 pm
I don't know exactly how much of "Beth" Peter Criss actually wrote, and neither do you.
I've got an idea of it. I've heard "Beck." That was the original version, and I'd say it's a fairly safe bet that, much like most of "Peter's songs", it's largely the creation of Stan Penridge.
It is? How much did Stan Penridge get in royalties from the song "Beth?"

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Re: Peter the hypocrite

Post by Thunderous_Lay » Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:42 pm

Misogynist, woman beater and last but not least, homophobic...

You're a wonderful fella, no doubt.

/s

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Re: Peter the hypocrite

Post by The Demon » Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:58 pm

Bandit1974 wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:36 pm
Why, because his pissed off ex-wife said so?
... because he did it, perhaps?
Probably because he had a chance to get back with the band that he once loved, to do better this time, and hopefully find fame and success again? His attitude and actions during the Reunion tour certainly support that.
Correction: because his life went to shit due to his own actions and arrogance, and it was a way out for him. After a time, he decided it wasn't good enough and thought he could throw his weight around against Gene and Paul. He can talk all the shit he wants about how he showed those guys by quitting during the Farewell Tour, but he came back as soon as he was given the opportunity to do so, and was under the belief that he would be participating in the RTN tour.
You have a warped sense of reality, Buttboy.
Perhaps you'll notice, if you go back and read, that i have not resorted to name calling against you.

My sense on reality is fine, it just goes against the pill you're swallowing.
It didn't? How much did he get for it?
You can't seriously have misunderstood what I meant with that.

I don't think any of them - even Paul and Gene - ever thought of the idea of putting that makeup on an imposter.
He had to have realized that they were not going to let that money go to waste and commercialize it however they could. Well, wait, on second thought, it wouldn't surprise me if he did indeed think that he was just getting some free money from it, but that's on him.

The "impostor" comment leads me to believe that you don't understand that KISS wearing the make-up from 1996 onward is not at all the same as when they first formed. It's purely for business, but you're not alone there I suppose.
I suspect the makeup design was seen as something that would be used for marketing purposes.
And it was, and continues to be.
Knowing Peter's personality, I really don't he would have sold his makeup design if he thought Paul and Gene might put it on someone else.
And again, that's entirely on him.
Completely different situation. In order to participate in that tour, KISS had to have at least 3 original members.
Well aware of that. He didn't seem to mind terribly returning to a group that was supposedly treating him so poorly for four years of his life, and was allegedly surprised to find out he was out of the band in 2004.
(I wonder why Paul and Gene have so much trouble keeping people in KISS?)
Oh? The line-up we've had now has remained 100% consistent for 15 years now, the longest of any line-up, and it would have been longer had they not been forced to feature either Ace of Peter for Symphony and the Aerosmith tour.
After that tour was over, they decided to replace Peter for someone who would take orders better and take lesser pay.
Or they replaced him with someone whose attitude wasn't completely in the shitter and who was reliable not to make trouble for them. I hardly see how that's some kind of undesirable quality in Gene and Paul the way you and others keep trying to paint it. There's things you can take them to task for, but that's easily among the most foolish.
It's all relative.
It's a deflection.
It's unlikely that both Peter AND Ace would leave KISS again if the situation was as rosy and lucrative for them as you make it out to be.
Is it so hard to wrap your head around the concept that, when it came down to it, they really just didn't give a fuck about KISS or its well-being?
Maybe Peter REALLY DID write "Beth." Everybody gets a sweet hand every once in a while.
By all means listen to "Beck", and then listen to "Beth" again. They feature the same vocal melody and some of the same lyrics, but they are absolutely not the same song. That song wouldn't have done shit were it hyped as a single.

It is? How much did Stan Penridge get in royalties from the song "Beth?"
Please take a look at the writing credits of Peter's solo albums. The KISS songs with Peter on vocals were almost exclusively written by either Ace, Paul, or Stan Penridge - which were in turn almost always significantly retooled by Gene/Paul without credit (like "Baby Driver"), or by Bob Ezrin, in the case of "Beth." The man barely ever wrote anything at all. Ozzy wrote more of "his" songs than Peter did. That's not even an insult, it's a fact and I don't know why you're so eager to deny it.
Last edited by The Demon on Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Peter the hypocrite

Post by Fartbone » Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:35 pm

Thunderous_Lay wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:42 pm
Misogynist, woman beater and last but not least, homophobic...

You're a wonderful fella, no doubt.

/s

And according to Geno, we are just gentiles here to fix their cars.

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Re: Peter the hypocrite

Post by battra » Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:37 am

The Demon wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:03 pm
Gene's had the luxury of being able to pretty much maintain his livelihood consistently as he has for nearly 45 years now,
If this statement was accurate, they wouldn't have had to rehire Ace and Peter.

You've seen how much Kiss Inc hates dealing with them.

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Re: Peter the hypocrite

Post by battra » Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:38 am

The Demon wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:06 pm
metaldad wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:00 pm
Gene was non existent from 83- 91
Not really true. It's become easy to see things that way because Gene was trying to have an acting career at the time, but he always had his shit together with KISS' touring activities and likely had a bigger involvement with the albums of that time than what was assumed or implied.

People point to the songs Gene supposedly didn't play bass on as further evidence, but they leave out the Gene songs that Paul didn't play on.
I've heard Gene's songs from 1976-1990.

Gene was non-existent in that time.

Gene stopped playing bass in Kiss full time around 1977.

Read Paul's book if you wanna hear what Paul thinks of Gene-O during those years.

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Re: Peter the hypocrite

Post by Fartbone » Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:04 am

battra wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:38 am
The Demon wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:06 pm
metaldad wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:00 pm
Gene was non existent from 83- 91
Not really true. It's become easy to see things that way because Gene was trying to have an acting career at the time, but he always had his shit together with KISS' touring activities and likely had a bigger involvement with the albums of that time than what was assumed or implied.

People point to the songs Gene supposedly didn't play bass on as further evidence, but they leave out the Gene songs that Paul didn't play on.
I've heard Gene's songs from 1976-1990.

Gene was non-existent in that time.

Gene stopped playing bass in Kiss full time around 1977.

Read Paul's book if you wanna hear what Paul thinks of Gene-O during those years.
Pauls book is bullshit. The guy has major issues and blames everyone but himself for the most part. If Gene wasn't around and then to come across as embarrassed and apologetic for their output from the 80's just puts the finger on Paul for turning out SHIT. He indirectly states that he needed Gene to release good product.

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Re: Peter the hypocrite

Post by battra » Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:47 am

Fartbone wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:04 am
Pauls book is bullshit. The guy has major issues and blames everyone but himself for the most part. If Gene wasn't around and then to come across as embarrassed and apologetic for their output from the 80's just puts the finger on Paul for turning out SHIT. He indirectly states that he needed Gene to release good product.
All their books are bullshit if you're looking for factual happenings.

I'm referring to the bit about...why did Gene get to put his shitty songs on the albums and then demand to get paid the same.

Paul is good for 1-3 good songs per record. That number goes waaaaaay back.

After Dressed To Kill...Gene was basically spent musically, but he wasn't turning in god awful dreck in 1977 at least...Gene's songs went from Killer to Filler to Chiller.... Paul turned his 1-3 quality tracks per record from 1974 to 2012...no drop off in quality.

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Re: Peter the hypocrite

Post by Fartbone » Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:49 am

battra wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:47 am
Fartbone wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:04 am
Pauls book is bullshit. The guy has major issues and blames everyone but himself for the most part. If Gene wasn't around and then to come across as embarrassed and apologetic for their output from the 80's just puts the finger on Paul for turning out SHIT. He indirectly states that he needed Gene to release good product.
All their books are bullshit if you're looking for factual happenings.

I'm referring to the bit about...why did Gene get to put his shitty songs on the albums and then demand to get paid the same.

Paul is good for 1-3 good songs per record. That number goes waaaaaay back.

After Dressed To Kill...Gene was basically spent musically, but he wasn't turning in god awful dreck in 1977 at least...Gene's songs went from Killer to Filler to Chiller.... Paul turned his 1-3 quality tracks per record from 1974 to 2012...no drop off in quality.
opinion

x in sex, sure

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Re: Peter the hypocrite

Post by battra » Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:57 am

Fartbone wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:49 am
battra wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:47 am
Fartbone wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:04 am
Pauls book is bullshit. The guy has major issues and blames everyone but himself for the most part. If Gene wasn't around and then to come across as embarrassed and apologetic for their output from the 80's just puts the finger on Paul for turning out SHIT. He indirectly states that he needed Gene to release good product.
All their books are bullshit if you're looking for factual happenings.

I'm referring to the bit about...why did Gene get to put his shitty songs on the albums and then demand to get paid the same.

Paul is good for 1-3 good songs per record. That number goes waaaaaay back.

After Dressed To Kill...Gene was basically spent musically, but he wasn't turning in god awful dreck in 1977 at least...Gene's songs went from Killer to Filler to Chiller.... Paul turned his 1-3 quality tracks per record from 1974 to 2012...no drop off in quality.
opinion

x in sex, sure
Those two songs were fuck awful.

Did you consider Smashes, Thrashes, and Hits to be an album?

Because....I did not...

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Re: Peter the hypocrite

Post by The Demon » Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:19 am

battra wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:37 am
The Demon wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:03 pm
Gene's had the luxury of being able to pretty much maintain his livelihood consistently as he has for nearly 45 years now,
If this statement was accurate, they wouldn't have had to rehire Ace and Peter.

You've seen how much Kiss Inc hates dealing with them.
I kind of figured it was pretty obvious that I was comparing him to Peter and (to a lesser degree) Ace but I guess I'll make sure to specify in the future.

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Re: Peter the hypocrite

Post by battra » Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:38 am

The Demon wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:19 am
battra wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:37 am
The Demon wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:03 pm
Gene's had the luxury of being able to pretty much maintain his livelihood consistently as he has for nearly 45 years now,
If this statement was accurate, they wouldn't have had to rehire Ace and Peter.

You've seen how much Kiss Inc hates dealing with them.
I kind of figured it was pretty obvious that I was comparing him to Peter and (to a lesser degree) Ace but I guess I'll make sure to specify in the future.
Sorry man.

I don't infer meaning from internet posts. If you don't state it, I won't get it.

It's simpler to take things literally.

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Re: Peter the hypocrite

Post by The Demon » Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:29 pm

battra wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:38 am
The Demon wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:19 am
battra wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:37 am
The Demon wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:03 pm
Gene's had the luxury of being able to pretty much maintain his livelihood consistently as he has for nearly 45 years now,
If this statement was accurate, they wouldn't have had to rehire Ace and Peter.

You've seen how much Kiss Inc hates dealing with them.
I kind of figured it was pretty obvious that I was comparing him to Peter and (to a lesser degree) Ace but I guess I'll make sure to specify in the future.
Sorry man.

I don't infer meaning from internet posts. If you don't state it, I won't get it.

It's simpler to take things literally.
Alrighty then.

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