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New Make-Up Designs ??

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aceshigh

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Post Tue May 28, 2013 10:22 am

New Make-Up Designs ??

Do you guys really think it would hurt ticket sales if Eric and Tommy had new designs for themselves? It's often argued that KISS has to have the four original designs to be successful. Then there is the argument that the casual fan doesn't care who is up there in the make-up. So would it matter if new designs were introduced? I know it's late in the game for this but would it really have made a difference?

Opinions please.
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Post Tue May 28, 2013 10:25 am

Re: New Make-Up Designs ??

At this point Tommy has become the one associated with that makeup, so it really wouldnt make sense for him to change it.
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aceshigh

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Post Tue May 28, 2013 10:30 am

Re: New Make-Up Designs ??

Blade Runner wrote:At this point Tommy has become the one associated with that makeup, so it really wouldnt make sense for him to change it.


But to a casual they may just see him as The Spaceman or Ace. The question is though would it have made a difference what the design was?
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Post Tue May 28, 2013 10:33 am

Re: New Make-Up Designs ??

No, I don't believe the slightest bit of a negative reaction would have happened if new characters were made for Tommy and Eric. Not only that, but it would give them additional characters to market and could have allowed them to push the current lineup as something in their own right rather than just a copy of the originals.
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Post Tue May 28, 2013 10:35 am

Re: New Make-Up Designs ??

I think it might have made a difference with all the merchandising so I guess it would have made a difference if they changed the makeup.
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Post Tue May 28, 2013 10:49 am

Re: New Make-Up Designs ??

I guess if hey would have done it right from the beginning, different designs would have made "sense" and would have been taken as a logical step. Possibly most fans would have felt like I did when Eric Carr replaced Peter - it felt right to have an other person have his own character and make-up. Changing the designs now would make no sense to me.

edited... of course it would make no sense for me...
Last edited by Juern on Wed May 29, 2013 12:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Tue May 28, 2013 10:57 am

Re: New Make-Up Designs ??

Blade Runner wrote:At this point Tommy has become the one associated with that makeup, so it really wouldnt make sense for him to change it.



Sorry buddy, but you're wrong about this. It's great that Tommy is your hero, but the makeup he wears IS, and always will be associated with Ace Frehley. See, most of the people that come to see KISS now really don't even know the names of Eric and Tommy...they really don't. They are a nostalgia act now. I think Tommy does a great job in KISS, but it's incorrect that the makeup that Ace designed and made famous is more associated with Tommy. It's just simply inaccurate. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if many of the people buying tickets now assume it IS Ace.

And to the point asked by the OP, I don't think it would make much difference......goes with being mostly a nostalgia act. I'm not slagging anyone, just telling it like it is.
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Post Tue May 28, 2013 11:45 am

Re: New Make-Up Designs ??

Actually it would be a breach of contract with many of their 3,000+ leicensed products. If "A" manufactures KISS tchotchkes with the Fab Four make up designs and "B" has them with Petey the Dog and Giraffe Boy...then they go out on tour w/Petey and The Giraffe...and promoting those characters...there's gonna be a conflict of interest and "A" is gonna want their pound of flesh.
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Post Tue May 28, 2013 11:48 am

Re: New Make-Up Designs ??

To my 12 hear old daughter TT is her Spaceman and she is well versed in KISStory. And she can tell the difference between Tommy , Ace , Peter and Eric. Vinnies Ankh is her favorite make up design. Go figure
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Post Tue May 28, 2013 11:52 am

Re: New Make-Up Designs ??

I don't think it would've hurt anything ticket sales-wise. I doubt the casuals know what the makeup looks like to even have noticed.

It's far too late to change the makeup and I'm happy they didn't - cause I don't even know what would look cool. I think every fan has randomly tried to do new KISS designs at some point in the band's 40 year history, and it's hard to come up with anything that looks great or as cool.
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Post Tue May 28, 2013 12:10 pm

Re: New Make-Up Designs ??

Personally I would LOVE new characters. I was amped when we got The Fox and The Warrior. As I said earlier though, it would clearly be a breach of contract and we ain't ever gonna see it.
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Post Tue May 28, 2013 12:38 pm

Re: New Make-Up Designs ??

aceshigh wrote:Do you guys really think it would hurt ticket sales if Eric and Tommy had new designs for themselves? It's often argued that KISS has to have the four original designs to be successful. Then there is the argument that the casual fan doesn't care who is up there in the make-up. So would it matter if new designs were introduced? I know it's late in the game for this but would it really have made a difference?

Opinions please.



Pulling out one of your oldies today?
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Post Tue May 28, 2013 12:59 pm

Re: New Make-Up Designs ??

yes it would...
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Post Tue May 28, 2013 1:04 pm

Re: New Make-Up Designs ??

To be quite honest, many fans don't even know the names of any of the members.
Perhaps they know Gene Simmons and that's it. (It's like what Bob Dylan allegedly said, when Gene called him. "Hey, Mr. Kiss".)

And I think that's the logic behind keeping the same make-up. It doesn't make any difference who wears it. The four characters are Kiss and the names don't matter.
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Post Tue May 28, 2013 1:19 pm

Re: New Make-Up Designs ??

aceshigh wrote:Do you guys really think it would hurt ticket sales if Eric and Tommy had new designs for themselves?

Yes, many casuals would not go see Kiss anymore. Like it or not, for the casuals it is about make-up and the bombs/explosions-schtick. Getting new make-up designs now would a) confuse the casuals and b) they would think it is not the "real" Kiss. The four designs are iconic; not as iconic as Gene and Paul want everyone to believe but certainly enough to attract the general audience.
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Post Tue May 28, 2013 3:37 pm

Re: New Make-Up Designs ??

heart_of_chrome wrote:
aceshigh wrote:Do you guys really think it would hurt ticket sales if Eric and Tommy had new designs for themselves?

Yes, many casuals would not go see Kiss anymore. Like it or not, for the casuals it is about make-up and the bombs/explosions-schtick. Getting new make-up designs now would a) confuse the casuals and b) they would think it is not the "real" Kiss. The four designs are iconic; not as iconic as Gene and Paul want everyone to believe but certainly enough to attract the general audience.


I disagree wholeheartedly. I don't think the 'casuals' would miss a beat if Paul came out in Bandit mode and Gene came out in some King Diamond print. If the logo is there...and the paint and bombs are, the fringe fans aren't gonna bat an eye. The only character a 'fly by night' would notice is missing is The Catman.
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Post Tue May 28, 2013 4:09 pm

Re: New Make-Up Designs ??

nibbler1982 wrote:
heart_of_chrome wrote:
aceshigh wrote:Do you guys really think it would hurt ticket sales if Eric and Tommy had new designs for themselves?

Yes, many casuals would not go see Kiss anymore. Like it or not, for the casuals it is about make-up and the bombs/explosions-schtick. Getting new make-up designs now would a) confuse the casuals and b) they would think it is not the "real" Kiss. The four designs are iconic; not as iconic as Gene and Paul want everyone to believe but certainly enough to attract the general audience.


I disagree wholeheartedly. I don't think the 'casuals' would miss a beat if Paul came out in Bandit mode and Gene came out in some King Diamond print. If the logo is there...and the paint and bombs are, the fringe fans aren't gonna bat an eye. The only character a 'fly by night' would notice is missing is The Catman.

I was about to debate your point, but then I remembered how some people told me when they saw the following video "Look! It's KISS!":



So you're right. General public don't know the difference if the Demon guy it's playing the drums. As long as they paint their faces and play rock'n roll, they're KISS :?
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Post Tue May 28, 2013 4:18 pm

Re: New Make-Up Designs ??

aceshigh wrote:Do you guys really think it would hurt ticket sales if Eric and Tommy had new designs for themselves? It's often argued that KISS has to have the four original designs to be successful. Then there is the argument that the casual fan doesn't care who is up there in the make-up. So would it matter if new designs were introduced? I know it's late in the game for this but would it really have made a difference?

Opinions please.


I don't think it would have made a huge impact on ticket sales, but on a whole that's how the band is known. At that point (from 2001 and beyond) it was too late in the game to launch new designs, IMO.
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Post Tue May 28, 2013 4:25 pm

Re: New Make-Up Designs ??

RisingForce wrote:No, I don't believe the slightest bit of a negative reaction would have happened if new characters were made for Tommy and Eric. Not only that, but it would give them additional characters to market and could have allowed them to push the current lineup as something in their own right rather than just a copy of the originals.



This. It quite simply should have been done.
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Post Tue May 28, 2013 4:37 pm

Re: New Make-Up Designs ??

I like the idea of new characters. But i understand why Paul and Gene don't want to do this.

1. They are not sure it won't be a huge failure. It didn't work the first time but then again they were already at their lowest point so it probably woudn't have mattered anyway.

2. Merchandise. Why change what is not broken? The merchandise is selling very well. If they were to change that then the merchandise would very likely take a hit. Not to mention an added headache of having meetings about what characters go on what merchandise. Kiss doesn't create all their merchandise. There are companies who pay them money to put their logo or characters on their product. If i was a big company i would want the original characters on my product because of the likelihood that product would sell better.

I know people don't think about this side of the makeup but it is very real. I have said this many times in here and no one seems to believe me. But put yourself in the shoes of a company VP and tell me which characters you would want to put on your product. I bet if everyone was honest it would be 100% for the original characters. That's just reality and Paul and Gene know this very well. They do not want to take a chance and screw it up. Last year they announced they had sold $500M of merchandise since 1996. There will not be any character changes so we might as well get used to it.
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Post Tue May 28, 2013 4:43 pm

Re: New Make-Up Designs ??

nobody gives a fuck about who's wearing the makeup except the 70's crybabies, feeling that their beloved career wasting heroes A&P are somehow being disrespected
and the same ppl would love SB and Monster if T&E had different make up and have hinted to as much, which is about as pathetically high school bs as it gets

pete= fired
ace=quit

neither wanna be there, the make up and costumes are part of KISS, period, A&P aren't KISS, T&E are
for the love of GOD, shut up about this ignorance and focus on the present, it's been over a decade, 2 and a 1/2 presidential terms, a war has started and ended, my point is, get over it and live your life
it's 2013 and the line up has been going since 2004, 9 yrs, NINE!

ppl can have their own opinions, but man, i just feel like some of you are missin your own life

H
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Post Tue May 28, 2013 4:51 pm

Re: New Make-Up Designs ??

It actually would've been interesting if they wanted to keep the continuum of what happened with the reunion and the original ethos of 'KISS as a band with 4 guys in makeup' by keeping the same characters, but adapting or evolving the makeup designs like they have with the costumes. Still recognisably a Cat and a Spaceman, but their design was a little more unique...hell get Tommy and Eric to contribute to the design. Nothing radical, just a Mark II version that gives them their own flavour.
It would likely stop all the silly whingeing about makeup legacy and still be recognisably KISS keeping in mind a lot (not all) of the merch material is a stylised version anyway.
Just a thought.
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Post Tue May 28, 2013 4:53 pm

Re: New Make-Up Designs ??

octalux wrote:nobody gives a fuck about who's wearing the makeup except the 70's crybabies, feeling that their beloved career wasting heroes A&P are somehow being disrespected
and the same ppl would love SB and Monster if T&E had different make up and have hinted to as much, which is about as pathetically high school bs as it gets

pete= fired
ace=quit

neither wanna be there, the make up and costumes are part of KISS, period, A&P aren't KISS, T&E are
for the love of GOD, shut up about this ignorance and focus on the present, it's been over a decade, 2 and a 1/2 presidential terms, a war has started and ended, my point is, get over it and live your life
it's 2013 and the line up has been going since 2004, 9 yrs, NINE!

ppl can have their own opinions, but man, i just feel like some of you are missin your own life

H


This is the moment where sand officially entered the vagina.
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octalux

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Post Tue May 28, 2013 4:55 pm

Re: New Make-Up Designs ??

no mulder, this is the moment when reality tried to awaken some ppl from their illusions
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Post Tue May 28, 2013 5:02 pm

Re: New Make-Up Designs ??

octalux wrote:nobody gives a fuck about who's wearing the makeup except the 70's crybabies, feeling that their beloved career wasting heroes A&P are somehow being disrespected
and the same ppl would love SB and Monster if T&E had different make up and have hinted to as much, which is about as pathetically high school bs as it gets

pete= fired
ace=quit

neither wanna be there, the make up and costumes are part of KISS, period, A&P aren't KISS, T&E are
for the love of GOD, shut up about this ignorance and focus on the present, it's been over a decade, 2 and a 1/2 presidential terms, a war has started and ended, my point is, get over it and live your life
it's 2013 and the line up has been going since 2004, 9 yrs, NINE!

ppl can have their own opinions, but man, i just feel like some of you are missin your own life

H

+1 Can't believe that after 9 years there are still people stupid enough to continuously bring this up and debate it. Might have made sense to argue it in 2004, but now? Grow the fuck up or shut the fuck up.
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Post Tue May 28, 2013 5:03 pm

Re: New Make-Up Designs ??

amen
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Post Tue May 28, 2013 5:04 pm

Re: New Make-Up Designs ??

Get a room you two! :lol:
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Post Tue May 28, 2013 5:10 pm

Re: New Make-Up Designs ??

catfish43 wrote:To my 12 hear old daughter TT is her Spaceman and she is well versed in KISStory. And she can tell the difference between Tommy , Ace , Peter and Eric. Vinnies Ankh is her favorite make up design. Go figure



Tell her Ankh man likes to put puppies in Tupperware containers. That should solve your problem.
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Post Tue May 28, 2013 5:24 pm

Re: New Make-Up Designs ??

nibbler1982 wrote:
heart_of_chrome wrote:
aceshigh wrote:Do you guys really think it would hurt ticket sales if Eric and Tommy had new designs for themselves?

Yes, many casuals would not go see Kiss anymore. Like it or not, for the casuals it is about make-up and the bombs/explosions-schtick. Getting new make-up designs now would a) confuse the casuals and b) they would think it is not the "real" Kiss. The four designs are iconic; not as iconic as Gene and Paul want everyone to believe but certainly enough to attract the general audience.


I disagree wholeheartedly. I don't think the 'casuals' would miss a beat if Paul came out in Bandit mode and Gene came out in some King Diamond print. If the logo is there...and the paint and bombs are, the fringe fans aren't gonna bat an eye. The only character a 'fly by night' would notice is missing is The Catman.


With the high cost of tickets there are most likely less "casuals" going to the shows than people think.
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metallian

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Post Tue May 28, 2013 5:30 pm

Re: New Make-Up Designs ??

Mulder wrote:
octalux wrote:nobody gives a fuck about who's wearing the makeup except the 70's crybabies, feeling that their beloved career wasting heroes A&P are somehow being disrespected
and the same ppl would love SB and Monster if T&E had different make up and have hinted to as much, which is about as pathetically high school bs as it gets

pete= fired
ace=quit

neither wanna be there, the make up and costumes are part of KISS, period, A&P aren't KISS, T&E are
for the love of GOD, shut up about this ignorance and focus on the present, it's been over a decade, 2 and a 1/2 presidential terms, a war has started and ended, my point is, get over it and live your life
it's 2013 and the line up has been going since 2004, 9 yrs, NINE!

ppl can have their own opinions, but man, i just feel like some of you are missin your own life

H


This is the moment where sand officially entered the vagina.


You have a lot of experience when it comes to that. No wonder why you're so crabby all of the time.

:lol:
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Mulder

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Post Tue May 28, 2013 5:53 pm

Re: New Make-Up Designs ??

metallian wrote:
Mulder wrote:
octalux wrote:nobody gives a fuck about who's wearing the makeup except the 70's crybabies, feeling that their beloved career wasting heroes A&P are somehow being disrespected
and the same ppl would love SB and Monster if T&E had different make up and have hinted to as much, which is about as pathetically high school bs as it gets

pete= fired
ace=quit

neither wanna be there, the make up and costumes are part of KISS, period, A&P aren't KISS, T&E are
for the love of GOD, shut up about this ignorance and focus on the present, it's been over a decade, 2 and a 1/2 presidential terms, a war has started and ended, my point is, get over it and live your life
it's 2013 and the line up has been going since 2004, 9 yrs, NINE!

ppl can have their own opinions, but man, i just feel like some of you are missin your own life

H


This is the moment where sand officially entered the vagina.


You have a lot of experience when it comes to that. No wonder why you're so crabby all of the time.

:lol:



Irony again, parody fan lol
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Post Tue May 28, 2013 6:06 pm

Re: New Make-Up Designs ??

Yes. If there are people who are/were KISS fans who are so bothered by the makeup situation that they can't be fans of KISS today then there certainly have to be casual fans out there who would take one look at the band with two new characters and wouldn't have any interest in it. KISS may be putting out new music and all that now, but they're still a nostalgia band that when people look up on that stage need to see what is familiar to them in order to connect to it.
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Post Tue May 28, 2013 6:10 pm

Re: New Make-Up Designs ??

aceshigh wrote:Do you guys really think it would hurt ticket sales if Eric and Tommy had new designs for themselves? It's often argued that KISS has to have the four original designs to be successful. Then there is the argument that the casual fan doesn't care who is up there in the make-up. So would it matter if new designs were introduced? I know it's late in the game for this but would it really have made a difference?

Opinions please.

Would have made it a bit easier to respect and somewhat get into those two more. :?
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aceshigh

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Post Tue May 28, 2013 7:25 pm

Re: New Make-Up Designs ??

gothunder wrote:
aceshigh wrote:Do you guys really think it would hurt ticket sales if Eric and Tommy had new designs for themselves? It's often argued that KISS has to have the four original designs to be successful. Then there is the argument that the casual fan doesn't care who is up there in the make-up. So would it matter if new designs were introduced? I know it's late in the game for this but would it really have made a difference?

Opinions please.

Would have made it a bit easier to respect and somewhat get into those two more. :?


Agreed.
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Post Tue May 28, 2013 8:16 pm

Re: New Make-Up Designs ??

- It's disrespectful to think two new designs would be better than The Catman and Spaceman designs.

- The general public does not care who is behind the make-up so why change it when you OWN the make-up rights.

- Ace and Pete are to lazy to do anything with the designs if they owned them

- It's not that easy to come up with TWO new designs, maybe if they used The Fox design and then only had to come up with ONE new design it could work.

- What difference would it have made anyway? a few fans would still find other things to complain about
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Post Tue May 28, 2013 8:53 pm

Re: New Make-Up Designs ??

octolux? So you are saying you will still enjoy KISS without Gene and Paul?
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Post Tue May 28, 2013 9:34 pm

Re: New Make-Up Designs ??

To some extent, they both have modified/deviated from the way Ace and Peter did it, so in that regard they do have their own makeup.

Eric does the whiskers different, and the green circles isn't how Peter applied the green around his eyes. There's also enough of a difference in the way Eric does the black around the nose. It's shaped more like the clubs shape from a deck of cards

Tommy proportions it differently than Ace, the points don't align the same and some of the angles don't match the way Ace wore it.
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Post Wed May 29, 2013 12:05 am

Re: New Make-Up Designs ??

Bad idea. I doubt KISS are capable of coming up with anything near the classic designs at this point.

Best off to milk the classic characters until their final days.

I don't want to see giraffe boy or the monkey, either (as Paul once joked). I'm happy as I can be with the current situation (wish the originals were there, but think KISS should use their classic look)
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Post Wed May 29, 2013 2:57 am

Re: New Make-Up Designs ??

kinetic74 wrote:
I don't want to see giraffe boy or the monkey, either (as Paul once joked).
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Post Wed May 29, 2013 3:32 am

Re: New Make-Up Designs ??

dursin wrote:
octalux wrote:nobody gives a fuck about who's wearing the makeup except the 70's crybabies, feeling that their beloved career wasting heroes A&P are somehow being disrespected
and the same ppl would love SB and Monster if T&E had different make up and have hinted to as much, which is about as pathetically high school bs as it gets

pete= fired
ace=quit

neither wanna be there, the make up and costumes are part of KISS, period, A&P aren't KISS, T&E are
for the love of GOD, shut up about this ignorance and focus on the present, it's been over a decade, 2 and a 1/2 presidential terms, a war has started and ended, my point is, get over it and live your life
it's 2013 and the line up has been going since 2004, 9 yrs, NINE!

ppl can have their own opinions, but man, i just feel like some of you are missin your own life

H

+1 Can't believe that after 9 years there are still people stupid enough to continuously bring this up and debate it. Might have made sense to argue it in 2004, but now? Grow the fuck up or shut the fuck up.



Yes lets talk about VV instead :lol: Forum Police :roll:
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