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KISS treatment of Eric Carr....

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thunder4dayz

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Post Tue Feb 05, 2013 4:48 pm

KISS treatment of Eric Carr....

I'm sure this has been discussed, but i'm new to the site, and reconnecting with the band as a whole after being upset that the farewell wasn't really it. What were the situations with Eric and insurance, or G&P's treatment of Eric as a whole. I've seen scattered among other posts here mentioning breifly some terrible things that G&P had done. Would anyone please shed some light on this topic for me. I thought they held him in high regard,m considering all the interviews after his death. what's the truth?
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Post Tue Feb 05, 2013 4:50 pm

Re: KISS treatment of Eric Carr....

I don't think the truth will ever be known. There's a lot of speculation and BS out there, for sure.

I'd say read all the horrible stuff and all the things that contradict those comments...then find the truth somewhere in the middle, as usual.
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Post Tue Feb 05, 2013 4:55 pm

Re: KISS treatment of Eric Carr....

Read the book "The Eric Carr Story." True or not, there are some interesting stories about it.
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Post Tue Feb 05, 2013 4:58 pm

Re: KISS treatment of Eric Carr....

bobrod wrote:Read the book "The Eric Carr Story." True or not, there are some interesting stories about it.




You should save us all some money and post them here.
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Post Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:04 pm

Re: KISS treatment of Eric Carr....

Go to a library.
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Post Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:10 pm

Re: KISS treatment of Eric Carr....

Not everyone has time to comb through every page and every thread. I know I'm not wasting my time doing that. Why do people get attacked when they ask a question that's maybe been discussed?
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Post Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:27 pm

Re: KISS treatment of Eric Carr....

bobrod wrote:Read the book "The Eric Carr Story." True or not, there are some interesting stories about it.


Indeed. Very good and enlightening book.
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Post Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:36 pm

Re: KISS treatment of Eric Carr....

thunder4dayz wrote:I'm sure this has been discussed, but i'm new to the site, and reconnecting with the band as a whole after being upset that the farewell wasn't really it. What were the situations with Eric and insurance, or G&P's treatment of Eric as a whole. I've seen scattered among other posts here mentioning breifly some terrible things that G&P had done. Would anyone please shed some light on this topic for me. I thought they held him in high regard,m considering all the interviews after his death. what's the truth?



The bottom line is no one here knows the truth (despite what they may claim), but yet will insist on getting in very heated arguements over it.

Personally, this is one of those things were I think it's better to accept the fact we'll never know and move on.
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Post Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:59 pm

Re: KISS treatment of Eric Carr....

thunder4dayz wrote:I'm sure this has been discussed, but i'm new to the site, and reconnecting with the band as a whole after being upset that the farewell wasn't really it. What were the situations with Eric and insurance, or G&P's treatment of Eric as a whole. I've seen scattered among other posts here mentioning breifly some terrible things that G&P had done. Would anyone please shed some light on this topic for me. I thought they held him in high regard,m considering all the interviews after his death. what's the truth?



Gene and Paul treated Eric like crap. They respected his drumming but didn't think much of his songwriting etc.

In dealing with them, they pretty much sent Eric to the looney bin and he'd suffer panic and anxiety attacks because of Gene and Paul.

They wouldn't let him sing on albums. They'd take away his drum solo. They wouldn't let him play with Ace.

Also remember, that it was Paul doing more of the tormenting of Eric than Gene. Paul seems to have this problem with anyone who threatens him (and his ego).

The Paul Stanley solo tour--Eric saw the writing on the wall. He's be replaced in KISS one day.

There was a time, I think during the HITS tour, that he didn't talk to Gene and Paul for months.


Eric doing everything he could to show up for the GGR&R2U2 video because he's so afraid he's going to be replaced. It must have been torture on him to be fighting cancer and then being so worried for your job, your healthcare and other things.

Then Paul calling him on the phone and trying to get him to leave the band.

KISS couldn't fire him because then they'd be open to a lawsuit. So they kept pressuring him and pressuring him (supposedly) to leave the band. By doing so, they wouldn't have to pay for his health insurance anymore. And the rates had skyrocketed because of his condition.

Vinnie supposedly left during the recording of Revenge because of how they were treating him.

Gary Corbett just ripped Gene and Paul to shreds. He talks about telling Paul was an asshole he was over the phone. He said he'd never work with them again after that phone call I love when Gary is pointing out how Def Leppard did everything they could to accommodate their drummer and how Gene and Paul do the exact opposite.

At the end, supposedly Eric is asking what bands need a drummer. Is Whitesnake looking for a new one. So sad.
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thunder4dayz

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Post Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:03 pm

Re: KISS treatment of Eric Carr....

TheSphinx wrote:
thunder4dayz wrote:I'm sure this has been discussed, but i'm new to the site, and reconnecting with the band as a whole after being upset that the farewell wasn't really it. What were the situations with Eric and insurance, or G&P's treatment of Eric as a whole. I've seen scattered among other posts here mentioning breifly some terrible things that G&P had done. Would anyone please shed some light on this topic for me. I thought they held him in high regard,m considering all the interviews after his death. what's the truth?



Gene and Paul treated Eric like crap. They respected his drumming but didn't think much of his songwriting etc.

In dealing with them, they pretty much sent Eric to the looney bin and he'd suffer panic and anxiety attacks because of Gene and Paul.

They wouldn't let him sing on albums. They'd take away his drum solo. They wouldn't let him play with Ace.

Also remember, that it was Paul doing more of the tormenting of Eric than Gene. Paul seems to have this problem with anyone who threatens him (and his ego).

The Paul Stanley solo tour--Eric saw the writing on the wall. He's be replaced in KISS one day.

There was a time, I think during the HITS tour, that he didn't talk to Gene and Paul for months.


Eric doing everything he could to show up for the GGR&R2U2 video because he's so afraid he's going to be replaced. It must have been torture on him to be fighting cancer and then being so worried for your job, your healthcare and other things.

Then Paul calling him on the phone and trying to get him to leave the band.

KISS couldn't fire him because then they'd be open to a lawsuit. So they kept pressuring him and pressuring him (supposedly) to leave the band. By doing so, they wouldn't have to pay for his health insurance anymore. And the rates had skyrocketed because of his condition.

Vinnie supposedly left during the recording of Revenge because of how they were treating him.

Gary Corbett just ripped Gene and Paul to shreds. He talks about telling Paul was an asshole he was over the phone. He said he'd never work with them again after that phone call I love when Gary is pointing out how Def Leppard did everything they could to accommodate their drummer and how Gene and Paul do the exact opposite.

At the end, supposedly Eric is asking what bands need a drummer. Is Whitesnake looking for a new one. So sad.



thanks, i really had no idea any of this went on. I on ly heard gene's interview on x-treme closeup and assumed they were devastated. guess not. wow.
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Post Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:06 pm

Re: KISS treatment of Eric Carr....

Does anybody remember that Howard Stern interview, with Gene and Paul, where Gene threatened to beat up Howard because Howard made fun of a Kiss member that had passed?

Was that member Eric or Mark?

OR did I misconstrue the whole thing because I missed some of the context?

Gene seemed really upset with Howard and he did not seem to be faking it.
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Post Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:11 pm

Re: KISS treatment of Eric Carr....

When I talked with Eric Carr in 1990 he seemed a little bitter and disappointed with how Gene and (especially) Paul treated him. When I joked with him that they should release Little Caesar as a single (to throw off the radio programmers with a different singer) he said that they'd release all 14 of the other songs on HITS as singles before they'd do that. He wasn't Bob Kulick bitter, but he seemed a little frustrated.

He loved the gig overall, but it was clear that he was unhappy with the way that he had been relegated to hired help status when he had so much more to contribute. They never took advantage of what they had right in front of them, and after a while it got to Eric. He didn't want to be the star of the band, but he did want to contribute more than they let him.
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Post Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:13 pm

Re: KISS treatment of Eric Carr....

There is more to it than just Gene and Paul wearing the black hat...
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Post Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:23 pm

Re: KISS treatment of Eric Carr....

Going Blind wrote:Does anybody remember that Howard Stern interview, with Gene and Paul, where Gene threatened to beat up Howard because Howard made fun of a Kiss member that had passed?

Was that member Eric or Mark?

OR did I misconstrue the whole thing because I missed some of the context?

Gene seemed really upset with Howard and he did not seem to be faking it.



It had to do with Gary Corbett calling in the show and asking Gary to get Howard to mention Eric's passing on air.

So Gene hear's about it third hand from people and supposedly gets pissed. He calls up Gary D at Sterns an wants a copy of the show ec.

Gary D calls up GC and tells him about it and Gary says, "He heard everything third-hand from people calling him up. He didn't hear the show." And the way I felt about those guys at that moment, I said to Gary, "They weren't treating him good at the end. And now that it's a public thing, they're trying to make themselves look good, like they gave a shit. So fuck 'em. Don't send them anything. That's what I would say."

So Gary didn't.

Then at the dinner after the funeral, Gene and Paul aren't really welcome at any other table so they set down with Gary. Gene doesn't know Gary called up in the show in the first place. He asks Gary if he had heard the show and what was said.

So Gary tells him

" And what he had said was that Eric had passed away. And he said how long Eric had been in the band and how long the band had been around. He goes, "Man, these guys have been around for so long ... I can't even name one Kiss song." So Fred [Norris] goes inside and comes out with Kiss Alive II I think it was. But that was still Peter. I guess it was a live version of "Beth" they put on. I guess it was actually vinyl—he puts the needle down on the turntable and starts to play "Beth." He plays two seconds of it and goes, "Oh God, that's crap! No wonder the guy got cancer. He had to play that crap every night?" Then he puts the needle down again, listens to a little more of the song, and goes, "Oh my God, what a dirge. They ought to play this song at his funeral. People will be jumping in the box with him."

And Gary says, Gene was trying to hold back from laughing as he was telling him what Howard said on air.

Then Gary goes on Stern a few weeks later and talks about it.
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Post Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:23 pm

Re: KISS treatment of Eric Carr....

Vinnie supposedly left during the recording of Revenge because of how they were treating him.


Left? :lol:
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Post Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:32 pm

Re: KISS treatment of Eric Carr....

[quote="Robdaddy"]I don't think the truth will ever be known.
quote]
Someday it will, when Paul and Gene are 6ft under and Bruce writes his book 8)
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Post Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:40 pm

Re: KISS treatment of Eric Carr....

TheSphinx wrote:At the end, supposedly Eric is asking what bands need a drummer. Is Whitesnake looking for a new one. So sad.


Whitesnake? Wow, that is sad! :wink:

Seriously...this will be a 10 pager or locked I suspect.
It's an emotive subject, but one that few know any real facts about.
It's sad he left us. RIP the Fox.
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Post Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:40 pm

Re: KISS treatment of Eric Carr....

thunder4dayz wrote:
TheSphinx wrote:
thunder4dayz wrote:I'm sure this has been discussed, but i'm new to the site, and reconnecting with the band as a whole after being upset that the farewell wasn't really it. What were the situations with Eric and insurance, or G&P's treatment of Eric as a whole. I've seen scattered among other posts here mentioning breifly some terrible things that G&P had done. Would anyone please shed some light on this topic for me. I thought they held him in high regard,m considering all the interviews after his death. what's the truth?



Gene and Paul treated Eric like crap. They respected his drumming but didn't think much of his songwriting etc.

In dealing with them, they pretty much sent Eric to the looney bin and he'd suffer panic and anxiety attacks because of Gene and Paul.

They wouldn't let him sing on albums. They'd take away his drum solo. They wouldn't let him play with Ace.

Also remember, that it was Paul doing more of the tormenting of Eric than Gene. Paul seems to have this problem with anyone who threatens him (and his ego).

The Paul Stanley solo tour--Eric saw the writing on the wall. He's be replaced in KISS one day.

There was a time, I think during the HITS tour, that he didn't talk to Gene and Paul for months.


Eric doing everything he could to show up for the GGR&R2U2 video because he's so afraid he's going to be replaced. It must have been torture on him to be fighting cancer and then being so worried for your job, your healthcare and other things.

Then Paul calling him on the phone and trying to get him to leave the band.

KISS couldn't fire him because then they'd be open to a lawsuit. So they kept pressuring him and pressuring him (supposedly) to leave the band. By doing so, they wouldn't have to pay for his health insurance anymore. And the rates had skyrocketed because of his condition.

Vinnie supposedly left during the recording of Revenge because of how they were treating him.

Gary Corbett just ripped Gene and Paul to shreds. He talks about telling Paul was an asshole he was over the phone. He said he'd never work with them again after that phone call I love when Gary is pointing out how Def Leppard did everything they could to accommodate their drummer and how Gene and Paul do the exact opposite.

At the end, supposedly Eric is asking what bands need a drummer. Is Whitesnake looking for a new one. So sad.



thanks, i really had no idea any of this went on. I on ly heard gene's interview on x-treme closeup and assumed they were devastated. guess not. wow.



Please don't take to heart. That's a very one-sided view of events from someone who constantly complains about how Vinnie was misreated by mean old Gene and Paul. Most of what he said are rumors that can't be proven and biased speculation.
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Post Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:41 pm

Re: KISS treatment of Eric Carr....

TheSphinx wrote:
Going Blind wrote:Does anybody remember that Howard Stern interview, with Gene and Paul, where Gene threatened to beat up Howard because Howard made fun of a Kiss member that had passed?

Was that member Eric or Mark?

OR did I misconstrue the whole thing because I missed some of the context?

Gene seemed really upset with Howard and he did not seem to be faking it.



It had to do with Gary Corbett calling in the show and asking Gary to get Howard to mention Eric's passing on air.

So Gene hear's about it third hand from people and supposedly gets pissed. He calls up Gary D at Sterns an wants a copy of the show ec.

Gary D calls up GC and tells him about it and Gary says, "He heard everything third-hand from people calling him up. He didn't hear the show." And the way I felt about those guys at that moment, I said to Gary, "They weren't treating him good at the end. And now that it's a public thing, they're trying to make themselves look good, like they gave a shit. So fuck 'em. Don't send them anything. That's what I would say."

So Gary didn't.

Then at the dinner after the funeral, Gene and Paul aren't really welcome at any other table so they set down with Gary. Gene doesn't know Gary called up in the show in the first place. He asks Gary if he had heard the show and what was said.

So Gary tells him

" And what he had said was that Eric had passed away. And he said how long Eric had been in the band and how long the band had been around. He goes, "Man, these guys have been around for so long ... I can't even name one Kiss song." So Fred [Norris] goes inside and comes out with Kiss Alive II I think it was. But that was still Peter. I guess it was a live version of "Beth" they put on. I guess it was actually vinyl—he puts the needle down on the turntable and starts to play "Beth." He plays two seconds of it and goes, "Oh God, that's crap! No wonder the guy got cancer. He had to play that crap every night?" Then he puts the needle down again, listens to a little more of the song, and goes, "Oh my God, what a dirge. They ought to play this song at his funeral. People will be jumping in the box with him."

And Gary says, Gene was trying to hold back from laughing as he was telling him what Howard said on air.

Then Gary goes on Stern a few weeks later and talks about it.


Thanks for the explanation Sphinx. Much appreciated.
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Post Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:52 pm

Re: KISS treatment of Eric Carr....

From my understanding, the "insurance" story was more the promoters wouldn't insure the tour with a drummer who may not be able to finish the tour.
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Post Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:55 pm

Re: KISS treatment of Eric Carr....

Homer Simpson wrote:
thunder4dayz wrote:
TheSphinx wrote:
thunder4dayz wrote:I'm sure this has been discussed, but i'm new to the site, and reconnecting with the band as a whole after being upset that the farewell wasn't really it. What were the situations with Eric and insurance, or G&P's treatment of Eric as a whole. I've seen scattered among other posts here mentioning breifly some terrible things that G&P had done. Would anyone please shed some light on this topic for me. I thought they held him in high regard,m considering all the interviews after his death. what's the truth?



Gene and Paul treated Eric like crap. They respected his drumming but didn't think much of his songwriting etc.

In dealing with them, they pretty much sent Eric to the looney bin and he'd suffer panic and anxiety attacks because of Gene and Paul.

They wouldn't let him sing on albums. They'd take away his drum solo. They wouldn't let him play with Ace.

Also remember, that it was Paul doing more of the tormenting of Eric than Gene. Paul seems to have this problem with anyone who threatens him (and his ego).

The Paul Stanley solo tour--Eric saw the writing on the wall. He's be replaced in KISS one day.

There was a time, I think during the HITS tour, that he didn't talk to Gene and Paul for months.


Eric doing everything he could to show up for the GGR&R2U2 video because he's so afraid he's going to be replaced. It must have been torture on him to be fighting cancer and then being so worried for your job, your healthcare and other things.

Then Paul calling him on the phone and trying to get him to leave the band.

KISS couldn't fire him because then they'd be open to a lawsuit. So they kept pressuring him and pressuring him (supposedly) to leave the band. By doing so, they wouldn't have to pay for his health insurance anymore. And the rates had skyrocketed because of his condition.

Vinnie supposedly left during the recording of Revenge because of how they were treating him.

Gary Corbett just ripped Gene and Paul to shreds. He talks about telling Paul was an asshole he was over the phone. He said he'd never work with them again after that phone call I love when Gary is pointing out how Def Leppard did everything they could to accommodate their drummer and how Gene and Paul do the exact opposite.

At the end, supposedly Eric is asking what bands need a drummer. Is Whitesnake looking for a new one. So sad.



thanks, i really had no idea any of this went on. I on ly heard gene's interview on x-treme closeup and assumed they were devastated. guess not. wow.



Please don't take to heart. That's a very one-sided view of events from someone who constantly complains about how Vinnie was misreated by mean old Gene and Paul. Most of what he said are rumors that can't be proven and biased speculation.




Most of that comes from the "Eric Carr" story....

What's the matter--hard to believe Gene and Paul can be that shitty? It shouldn't be, everyone whose dealt with them has the same problems. Eric Carr, Vinnie, Ace, Peter, Corbett.

And CK Lendt also talked about how bad off Eric was because of dealing with Gene and Paul.

Why don't you read the book and see what Bob Kulick says or Bruce's ex wife?

While Bruce and his wife are sharing a Honda, Paul moves into a 5 story place with an elevator. Always nice of them to spend money like that after they've had Bruce cut his salary in 1/2.
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Post Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:57 pm

Re: KISS treatment of Eric Carr....

NS2A wrote:From my understanding, the "insurance" story was more the promoters wouldn't insure the tour with a drummer who may not be able to finish the tour.


Eric could have easily stayed a member without going out on tour.

Also, if Eric did play, it wouldn't matter that much to the insurance brokers. Eric could be replaced and it wouldn't effect the tour one bit. It's wouldn't be like losing Gene or Paul.

Let me edit this by also pointing out... KISS didn't go out on TOUR anywhere near the time of this being talked about. So the "tour insurance" story is most likel more of G&P's b.s.

and not to take away from Eric but he would have been easily replaceable. And its not like this didn't happen before! Remember MSJ and Kulick being out at the same time together???!!! Anyone?!! So just remember..if it comes from G&P....put it past the smell test!!!
Last edited by TheSphinx on Tue Feb 05, 2013 7:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Tue Feb 05, 2013 7:02 pm

Re: KISS treatment of Eric Carr....

TheSphinx wrote:

Also, if Eric did play, it wouldn't matter that much to the insurance brokers. Eric could be replaced and it wouldn't effect the tour one bit. It's wouldn't be like losing Gene or Paul.


Hmmm, not so sure about that. Sure G&P were KISS essentially, but Eric certainly had his fans and followers.

EDIT: Also it should be noted, that it's not so easy to just replace someone mid-tour, it's not inexpensive either.
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Post Tue Feb 05, 2013 7:10 pm

Re: KISS treatment of Eric Carr....

brokentiny wrote:
TheSphinx wrote:

Also, if Eric did play, it wouldn't matter that much to the insurance brokers. Eric could be replaced and it wouldn't effect the tour one bit. It's wouldn't be like losing Gene or Paul.


Hmmm, not so sure about that. Sure G&P were KISS essentially, but Eric certainly had his fans and followers.

EDIT: Also it should be noted, that it's not so easy to just replace someone mid-tour, it's not inexpensive either.


You either take two out (like on the Animalize tour) or you have one on standbye. But since KISS wasn't touring during any of this...it really didn't matter.
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Post Tue Feb 05, 2013 7:16 pm

Re: KISS treatment of Eric Carr....

Hey Man 2 wrote:
brokentiny wrote:
TheSphinx wrote:At the end, supposedly Eric is asking what bands need a drummer. Is Whitesnake looking for a new one. So sad.


Whitesnake? Wow, that is sad! :wink:

Seriously...this will be a 10 pager or locked I suspect.
It's an emotive subject, but one that few know any real facts about.
It's sad he left us. RIP the Fox.


KISS opened for Whitesnake in 1990. Whitesnake were also the bigger band then and the better gig.


Easy tiger, it was a joke. My statement was nothing to do with who was bigger, but I figured you might pick up on that little dig. But it's useful to me to know you are a Whitesnake fan. :wink:
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Post Tue Feb 05, 2013 7:19 pm

Re: KISS treatment of Eric Carr....

Eddie Trunk was the one that told the Whitesnake story in the Eric Carr story:

Eddie Trunk: "I'll tell you this. Eric was completely convinced that if he did get healthy that his place in the band was still very much in jeopardy. For whatever reason. He would call me and ask me, "Hey man, keep your ears open for me. Let me know if you hear of gigs. I heard that Whitesnake may be looking for someone—let me know." And I'd be like, "Eric, are you crazy? Stop worrying about this shit. First is your health, then you're healthy, your gig will be there. There's no way the fans will allow it." He's like, "No, man, I think it's over."
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Post Tue Feb 05, 2013 7:22 pm

Re: KISS treatment of Eric Carr....

Hey Man 2 wrote:
brokentiny wrote:
TheSphinx wrote:At the end, supposedly Eric is asking what bands need a drummer. Is Whitesnake looking for a new one. So sad.


Whitesnake? Wow, that is sad! :wink:

Seriously...this will be a 10 pager or locked I suspect.
It's an emotive subject, but one that few know any real facts about.
It's sad he left us. RIP the Fox.


KISS opened for Whitesnake in 1990. Whitesnake were also the bigger band then and the better gig.


Whitesnake. One of the main reasons 80s rock music sucked big time
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Post Tue Feb 05, 2013 7:27 pm

Re: KISS treatment of Eric Carr....

Hey Man 2 wrote:
brokentiny wrote:
Hey Man 2 wrote:
brokentiny wrote:
TheSphinx wrote:At the end, supposedly Eric is asking what bands need a drummer. Is Whitesnake looking for a new one. So sad.


Whitesnake? Wow, that is sad! :wink:

Seriously...this will be a 10 pager or locked I suspect.
It's an emotive subject, but one that few know any real facts about.
It's sad he left us. RIP the Fox.


KISS opened for Whitesnake in 1990. Whitesnake were also the bigger band then and the better gig.


Easy tiger, it was a joke. My statement was nothing to do with who was bigger, but I figured you might pick up on that little dig. But it's useful to me to know you are a Whitesnake fan. :wink:


Nobody messes with my whitesnake.


Not even your significant other? Sorry to hear that. :wink:
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Post Tue Feb 05, 2013 7:28 pm

Re: KISS treatment of Eric Carr....

TheSphinx wrote: Most of that comes from the "Eric Carr" story....


Which is one side of the story as I stated.

TheSphinx wrote: What's the matter--hard to believe Gene and Paul can be that shitty? It shouldn't be, everyone whose dealt with them has the same problems. Eric Carr, Vinnie, Ace, Peter, Corbett.


I'm not claiming Gene and Paul are saints or even good people. That said, people that have dealt with Vinnie, Ace, Peter, and even Eric Carr have had problems with them.


TheSphinx wrote: And CK Lendt also talked about how bad off Eric was because of dealing with Gene and Paul.


He also talked about how Eric was an insecure and overly sensitive person.


TheSphinx wrote: Why don't you read the book and see what Bob Kulick says or Bruce's ex wife?


I have. Why don't you realize that you're only accepting one side of the story? A side presented, in many cases, from people who only have a second hand account of what really happened.

TheSphinx wrote: While Bruce and his wife are sharing a Honda, Paul moves into a 5 story place with an elevator. Always nice of them to spend money like that after they've had Bruce cut his salary in 1/2.


And what does that have to do with Eric Carr? Besides, they can run their business as they see fit. Likewise, employees can decide whether or not they are being treated unfairly.

Now on to some of your other points....

TheSphinx wrote: Gene and Paul treated Eric like crap. They respected his drumming but didn't think much of his songwriting etc.


Listen, I like Eric. I've listened to Rockology. Maybe they could have used a couple of his songs. That said, many of his songs didn't really have a Kiss vibe to them. And if they didn't think much of his songwriting, what were they supposed to do? Record material they didn't like just to please him?

TheSphinx wrote:In dealing with them, they pretty much sent Eric to the looney bin and he'd suffer panic and anxiety attacks because of Gene and Paul.


Again, many have said Eric was an insecure and overly sensitive person. It's possible his panic attacks were the result of that. Now maybe Gene and Paul didn't help to relieve his anxieties, but its something he would have to do with any employer. Plus, if things were really as bad as they were made out to seem, why didn't he leave Kiss? If he was treated so bad, wasn't get paid much, and it was not condusive to his health to the point some want to make it out to be, no job is worth that.

TheSphinx wrote: They'd take away his drum solo.


Another instance of you only telling half the story. Actually, more like 1/10 of the story. It was the band's manager that suggested the solos be cut on the HITS tour so the band could play more songs. And it wasn't just Eric's solo that was cut. Paul didn't get a guitar solo. Neither did Bruce. Gene didn't get a bass solo. By the end of the tour, Eric got his drum solo back. No one else got their solo back.

TheSphinx wrote: They wouldn't let him play with Ace.


How many companies let their employees do freelance work for a former member of the company they have a bad relationship with? None. Not to mention, it would be interesting to see the timeline. Gene and Paul knew Ace was recording Hide Your Heart and weren't very happy about that. That could be another potential reason they didn't want Eric on Ace's album.

TheSphinx wrote: The Paul Stanley solo tour--Eric saw the writing on the wall. He's be replaced in KISS one day.


Again, isn't possible this can be traced back to Eric's insecurity?

TheSphinx wrote: There was a time, I think during the HITS tour, that he didn't talk to Gene and Paul for months.


He didn't talk to Bruce either. You neglected to mention that. You also neglected to mention that even Bruce said Eric was difficult to deal with around that time. Funny you're so quick to take the word of people who criticize Gene and Paul, but ignore what people say about everyone else.
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Post Tue Feb 05, 2013 7:30 pm

Re: KISS treatment of Eric Carr....

kinetic74 wrote:
Whitesnake. One of the main reasons 80s rock music sucked big time



Surely, you are joking! Whitesnake was great! Saw them open for Crue on the "Girls, Girls, Girls" tour and Whitesnake blew them off the stage. Sure you can complain about the "radio edits" but KISS did the same thing.

And they gave us Tawny Kitaen! Sure she didn't age well, but she was hotter than hell back then!

Slide It In is one of the greatest albums of all time! "Whitesnake" was just loaded with hits. "Slip Of The Tongue" was a big step down but it was blew away "Hot In The Shade".

Good To Be Bad and Forevermore sure blows away Sonic Boom and Monster!
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Post Tue Feb 05, 2013 7:32 pm

Re: KISS treatment of Eric Carr....

Hey Man 2 wrote:
kinetic74 wrote:
Hey Man 2 wrote:
brokentiny wrote:
TheSphinx wrote:At the end, supposedly Eric is asking what bands need a drummer. Is Whitesnake looking for a new one. So sad.


Whitesnake? Wow, that is sad! :wink:

Seriously...this will be a 10 pager or locked I suspect.
It's an emotive subject, but one that few know any real facts about.
It's sad he left us. RIP the Fox.


KISS opened for Whitesnake in 1990. Whitesnake were also the bigger band then and the better gig.


Whitesnake. One of the main reasons 80s rock music sucked big time


Yes - Slide It In and 1987 were horrible albums, but Asylum and Crazy Nights kicked fucking ass.


Oh, they all suck quite a bit.
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Post Tue Feb 05, 2013 7:33 pm

Re: KISS treatment of Eric Carr....

So much speculation from those who weren't there.
:roll:
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Post Tue Feb 05, 2013 7:37 pm

Re: KISS treatment of Eric Carr....

TheSphinx wrote:
thunder4dayz wrote:I'm sure this has been discussed, but i'm new to the site, and reconnecting with the band as a whole after being upset that the farewell wasn't really it. What were the situations with Eric and insurance, or G&P's treatment of Eric as a whole. I've seen scattered among other posts here mentioning breifly some terrible things that G&P had done. Would anyone please shed some light on this topic for me. I thought they held him in high regard,m considering all the interviews after his death. what's the truth?



Gene and Paul treated Eric like crap. They respected his drumming but didn't think much of his songwriting etc.

In dealing with them, they pretty much sent Eric to the looney bin and he'd suffer panic and anxiety attacks because of Gene and Paul.

They wouldn't let him sing on albums. They'd take away his drum solo. They wouldn't let him play with Ace.

Also remember, that it was Paul doing more of the tormenting of Eric than Gene. Paul seems to have this problem with anyone who threatens him (and his ego).

The Paul Stanley solo tour--Eric saw the writing on the wall. He's be replaced in KISS one day.

There was a time, I think during the HITS tour, that he didn't talk to Gene and Paul for months.


Eric doing everything he could to show up for the GGR&R2U2 video because he's so afraid he's going to be replaced. It must have been torture on him to be fighting cancer and then being so worried for your job, your healthcare and other things.

Then Paul calling him on the phone and trying to get him to leave the band.

KISS couldn't fire him because then they'd be open to a lawsuit. So they kept pressuring him and pressuring him (supposedly) to leave the band. By doing so, they wouldn't have to pay for his health insurance anymore. And the rates had skyrocketed because of his condition.

Vinnie supposedly left during the recording of Revenge because of how they were treating him.

Gary Corbett just ripped Gene and Paul to shreds. He talks about telling Paul was an asshole he was over the phone. He said he'd never work with them again after that phone call I love when Gary is pointing out how Def Leppard did everything they could to accommodate their drummer and how Gene and Paul do the exact opposite.

At the end, supposedly Eric is asking what bands need a drummer. Is Whitesnake looking for a new one. So sad.

This makes it sound like Eric was a weak personality. Why couldn't he stand up to G&P?
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Post Tue Feb 05, 2013 7:45 pm

Re: KISS treatment of Eric Carr....

JimiG wrote:So much speculation from those who weren't there.
:roll:



If that is the standard the board must live by, then you might as well shut it down.

There are lots of stories out there about this, why can it not be speculated on? Because it makes Gene and Paul look bad?
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Post Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:11 pm

Re: KISS treatment of Eric Carr....

Hey Man 2 wrote:
kinetic74 wrote:
Hey Man 2 wrote:
kinetic74 wrote:
Hey Man 2 wrote:
brokentiny wrote:
TheSphinx wrote:At the end, supposedly Eric is asking what bands need a drummer. Is Whitesnake looking for a new one. So sad.


Whitesnake? Wow, that is sad! :wink:

Seriously...this will be a 10 pager or locked I suspect.
It's an emotive subject, but one that few know any real facts about.
It's sad he left us. RIP the Fox.


KISS opened for Whitesnake in 1990. Whitesnake were also the bigger band then and the better gig.


Whitesnake. One of the main reasons 80s rock music sucked big time


Yes - Slide It In and 1987 were horrible albums, but Asylum and Crazy Nights kicked fucking ass.



Oh, they all suck quite a bit.


No - the KISS albums do, but Slide It In and 1987 were great hard rock albums in the 80's.


Terrible. Thank god that Nirvana and Pearl Jam came along to make all those awful hair metal bands unemployed. :lol:
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Post Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:14 pm

Re: KISS treatment of Eric Carr....

Isn't it fair to say that They WANTED Eric in Kiss in the first place (Positive thing) but they only hired him as a drummer? Doesn't Paul have the right to ask him to only do what he was hired for? In all hired gun scenerios which I thought this was, this is pretty common. Not sure about the rest. I was not there. Obviously some of you were.
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Post Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:16 pm

Re: KISS treatment of Eric Carr....

Bubba wrote:Isn't it fair to say that They WANTED Eric in Kiss in the first place (Positive thing) but they only hired him as a drummer? Doesn't Paul have the right to ask him to only do what he was hired for? In all hired gun scenerios which I thought this was, this is pretty common. Not sure about the rest. I was not there. Obviously some of you were.



Where did anyone claim they were there?

Gene and Paul treated him badly. There is enough anecdotal evidence to suggest that. To what extent? That is a good question.
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Post Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:44 pm

Re: KISS treatment of Eric Carr....

kinetic74 wrote:
Hey Man 2 wrote:
brokentiny wrote:
TheSphinx wrote:At the end, supposedly Eric is asking what bands need a drummer. Is Whitesnake looking for a new one. So sad.


Whitesnake? Wow, that is sad! :wink:

Seriously...this will be a 10 pager or locked I suspect.
It's an emotive subject, but one that few know any real facts about.
It's sad he left us. RIP the Fox.


KISS opened for Whitesnake in 1990. Whitesnake were also the bigger band then and the better gig.


Whitesnake. One of the main reasons 80s rock music sucked big time


More 80's rock haters. :roll:
Still of the Night = good
Smells Like Teen Spirit = bad

Any questions?
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Post Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:50 pm

Re: KISS treatment of Eric Carr....

Anomaly wrote:
Vinnie supposedly left during the recording of Revenge because of how they were treating him.


Left? :lol:

This guy is nuts. Go ask him how Vinnie's ass smells on the inside...
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Post Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:11 pm

Re: KISS treatment of Eric Carr....

Eric's sister has said that he was treated badly in the end, and was fired so Kiss would not have to pay the Hospital bills etc.
Supposedly Singer was in the band before Eric's Death.
But I am sure there is a lot to it.Kiss was not doing amazing at the time and I am sure as cold as it may sound they had to think about how they were going to move on.
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