KISS treatment of Eric Carr....
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KISS treatment of Eric Carr....
I'm sure this has been discussed, but i'm new to the site, and reconnecting with the band as a whole after being upset that the farewell wasn't really it. What were the situations with Eric and insurance, or G&P's treatment of Eric as a whole. I've seen scattered among other posts here mentioning breifly some terrible things that G&P had done. Would anyone please shed some light on this topic for me. I thought they held him in high regard,m considering all the interviews after his death. what's the truth?
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Re: KISS treatment of Eric Carr....
I don't think the truth will ever be known. There's a lot of speculation and BS out there, for sure.
I'd say read all the horrible stuff and all the things that contradict those comments...then find the truth somewhere in the middle, as usual.
I'd say read all the horrible stuff and all the things that contradict those comments...then find the truth somewhere in the middle, as usual.
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Re: KISS treatment of Eric Carr....
Read the book "The Eric Carr Story." True or not, there are some interesting stories about it.
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Re: KISS treatment of Eric Carr....
bobrod wrote:Read the book "The Eric Carr Story." True or not, there are some interesting stories about it.
You should save us all some money and post them here.
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Re: KISS treatment of Eric Carr....
Go to a library.
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Re: KISS treatment of Eric Carr....
Not everyone has time to comb through every page and every thread. I know I'm not wasting my time doing that. Why do people get attacked when they ask a question that's maybe been discussed?
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Re: KISS treatment of Eric Carr....
Indeed. Very good and enlightening book.bobrod wrote:Read the book "The Eric Carr Story." True or not, there are some interesting stories about it.
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Re: KISS treatment of Eric Carr....
thunder4dayz wrote:I'm sure this has been discussed, but i'm new to the site, and reconnecting with the band as a whole after being upset that the farewell wasn't really it. What were the situations with Eric and insurance, or G&P's treatment of Eric as a whole. I've seen scattered among other posts here mentioning breifly some terrible things that G&P had done. Would anyone please shed some light on this topic for me. I thought they held him in high regard,m considering all the interviews after his death. what's the truth?
The bottom line is no one here knows the truth (despite what they may claim), but yet will insist on getting in very heated arguements over it.
Personally, this is one of those things were I think it's better to accept the fact we'll never know and move on.
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Re: KISS treatment of Eric Carr....
thunder4dayz wrote:I'm sure this has been discussed, but i'm new to the site, and reconnecting with the band as a whole after being upset that the farewell wasn't really it. What were the situations with Eric and insurance, or G&P's treatment of Eric as a whole. I've seen scattered among other posts here mentioning breifly some terrible things that G&P had done. Would anyone please shed some light on this topic for me. I thought they held him in high regard,m considering all the interviews after his death. what's the truth?
Gene and Paul treated Eric like crap. They respected his drumming but didn't think much of his songwriting etc.
In dealing with them, they pretty much sent Eric to the looney bin and he'd suffer panic and anxiety attacks because of Gene and Paul.
They wouldn't let him sing on albums. They'd take away his drum solo. They wouldn't let him play with Ace.
Also remember, that it was Paul doing more of the tormenting of Eric than Gene. Paul seems to have this problem with anyone who threatens him (and his ego).
The Paul Stanley solo tour--Eric saw the writing on the wall. He's be replaced in KISS one day.
There was a time, I think during the HITS tour, that he didn't talk to Gene and Paul for months.
Eric doing everything he could to show up for the GGR&R2U2 video because he's so afraid he's going to be replaced. It must have been torture on him to be fighting cancer and then being so worried for your job, your healthcare and other things.
Then Paul calling him on the phone and trying to get him to leave the band.
KISS couldn't fire him because then they'd be open to a lawsuit. So they kept pressuring him and pressuring him (supposedly) to leave the band. By doing so, they wouldn't have to pay for his health insurance anymore. And the rates had skyrocketed because of his condition.
Vinnie supposedly left during the recording of Revenge because of how they were treating him.
Gary Corbett just ripped Gene and Paul to shreds. He talks about telling Paul was an asshole he was over the phone. He said he'd never work with them again after that phone call I love when Gary is pointing out how Def Leppard did everything they could to accommodate their drummer and how Gene and Paul do the exact opposite.
At the end, supposedly Eric is asking what bands need a drummer. Is Whitesnake looking for a new one. So sad.
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Re: KISS treatment of Eric Carr....
TheSphinx wrote:thunder4dayz wrote:I'm sure this has been discussed, but i'm new to the site, and reconnecting with the band as a whole after being upset that the farewell wasn't really it. What were the situations with Eric and insurance, or G&P's treatment of Eric as a whole. I've seen scattered among other posts here mentioning breifly some terrible things that G&P had done. Would anyone please shed some light on this topic for me. I thought they held him in high regard,m considering all the interviews after his death. what's the truth?
Gene and Paul treated Eric like crap. They respected his drumming but didn't think much of his songwriting etc.
In dealing with them, they pretty much sent Eric to the looney bin and he'd suffer panic and anxiety attacks because of Gene and Paul.
They wouldn't let him sing on albums. They'd take away his drum solo. They wouldn't let him play with Ace.
Also remember, that it was Paul doing more of the tormenting of Eric than Gene. Paul seems to have this problem with anyone who threatens him (and his ego).
The Paul Stanley solo tour--Eric saw the writing on the wall. He's be replaced in KISS one day.
There was a time, I think during the HITS tour, that he didn't talk to Gene and Paul for months.
Eric doing everything he could to show up for the GGR&R2U2 video because he's so afraid he's going to be replaced. It must have been torture on him to be fighting cancer and then being so worried for your job, your healthcare and other things.
Then Paul calling him on the phone and trying to get him to leave the band.
KISS couldn't fire him because then they'd be open to a lawsuit. So they kept pressuring him and pressuring him (supposedly) to leave the band. By doing so, they wouldn't have to pay for his health insurance anymore. And the rates had skyrocketed because of his condition.
Vinnie supposedly left during the recording of Revenge because of how they were treating him.
Gary Corbett just ripped Gene and Paul to shreds. He talks about telling Paul was an asshole he was over the phone. He said he'd never work with them again after that phone call I love when Gary is pointing out how Def Leppard did everything they could to accommodate their drummer and how Gene and Paul do the exact opposite.
At the end, supposedly Eric is asking what bands need a drummer. Is Whitesnake looking for a new one. So sad.
thanks, i really had no idea any of this went on. I on ly heard gene's interview on x-treme closeup and assumed they were devastated. guess not. wow.
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Re: KISS treatment of Eric Carr....
Does anybody remember that Howard Stern interview, with Gene and Paul, where Gene threatened to beat up Howard because Howard made fun of a Kiss member that had passed?
Was that member Eric or Mark?
OR did I misconstrue the whole thing because I missed some of the context?
Gene seemed really upset with Howard and he did not seem to be faking it.
Was that member Eric or Mark?
OR did I misconstrue the whole thing because I missed some of the context?
Gene seemed really upset with Howard and he did not seem to be faking it.
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Re: KISS treatment of Eric Carr....
When I talked with Eric Carr in 1990 he seemed a little bitter and disappointed with how Gene and (especially) Paul treated him. When I joked with him that they should release Little Caesar as a single (to throw off the radio programmers with a different singer) he said that they'd release all 14 of the other songs on HITS as singles before they'd do that. He wasn't Bob Kulick bitter, but he seemed a little frustrated.
He loved the gig overall, but it was clear that he was unhappy with the way that he had been relegated to hired help status when he had so much more to contribute. They never took advantage of what they had right in front of them, and after a while it got to Eric. He didn't want to be the star of the band, but he did want to contribute more than they let him.
He loved the gig overall, but it was clear that he was unhappy with the way that he had been relegated to hired help status when he had so much more to contribute. They never took advantage of what they had right in front of them, and after a while it got to Eric. He didn't want to be the star of the band, but he did want to contribute more than they let him.
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Re: KISS treatment of Eric Carr....
There is more to it than just Gene and Paul wearing the black hat...
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Re: KISS treatment of Eric Carr....
Going Blind wrote:Does anybody remember that Howard Stern interview, with Gene and Paul, where Gene threatened to beat up Howard because Howard made fun of a Kiss member that had passed?
Was that member Eric or Mark?
OR did I misconstrue the whole thing because I missed some of the context?
Gene seemed really upset with Howard and he did not seem to be faking it.
It had to do with Gary Corbett calling in the show and asking Gary to get Howard to mention Eric's passing on air.
So Gene hear's about it third hand from people and supposedly gets pissed. He calls up Gary D at Sterns an wants a copy of the show ec.
Gary D calls up GC and tells him about it and Gary says, "He heard everything third-hand from people calling him up. He didn't hear the show." And the way I felt about those guys at that moment, I said to Gary, "They weren't treating him good at the end. And now that it's a public thing, they're trying to make themselves look good, like they gave a shit. So fuck 'em. Don't send them anything. That's what I would say."
So Gary didn't.
Then at the dinner after the funeral, Gene and Paul aren't really welcome at any other table so they set down with Gary. Gene doesn't know Gary called up in the show in the first place. He asks Gary if he had heard the show and what was said.
So Gary tells him
" And what he had said was that Eric had passed away. And he said how long Eric had been in the band and how long the band had been around. He goes, "Man, these guys have been around for so long ... I can't even name one Kiss song." So Fred [Norris] goes inside and comes out with Kiss Alive II I think it was. But that was still Peter. I guess it was a live version of "Beth" they put on. I guess it was actually vinyl—he puts the needle down on the turntable and starts to play "Beth." He plays two seconds of it and goes, "Oh God, that's crap! No wonder the guy got cancer. He had to play that crap every night?" Then he puts the needle down again, listens to a little more of the song, and goes, "Oh my God, what a dirge. They ought to play this song at his funeral. People will be jumping in the box with him."
And Gary says, Gene was trying to hold back from laughing as he was telling him what Howard said on air.
Then Gary goes on Stern a few weeks later and talks about it.
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Re: KISS treatment of Eric Carr....
Left?Vinnie supposedly left during the recording of Revenge because of how they were treating him.
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Re: KISS treatment of Eric Carr....
[quote="Robdaddy"]I don't think the truth will ever be known.
quote]
Someday it will, when Paul and Gene are 6ft under and Bruce writes his book
quote]
Someday it will, when Paul and Gene are 6ft under and Bruce writes his book
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Re: KISS treatment of Eric Carr....
Whitesnake? Wow, that is sad!TheSphinx wrote: At the end, supposedly Eric is asking what bands need a drummer. Is Whitesnake looking for a new one. So sad.
Seriously...this will be a 10 pager or locked I suspect.
It's an emotive subject, but one that few know any real facts about.
It's sad he left us. RIP the Fox.
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Re: KISS treatment of Eric Carr....
thunder4dayz wrote:TheSphinx wrote:thunder4dayz wrote:I'm sure this has been discussed, but i'm new to the site, and reconnecting with the band as a whole after being upset that the farewell wasn't really it. What were the situations with Eric and insurance, or G&P's treatment of Eric as a whole. I've seen scattered among other posts here mentioning breifly some terrible things that G&P had done. Would anyone please shed some light on this topic for me. I thought they held him in high regard,m considering all the interviews after his death. what's the truth?
Gene and Paul treated Eric like crap. They respected his drumming but didn't think much of his songwriting etc.
In dealing with them, they pretty much sent Eric to the looney bin and he'd suffer panic and anxiety attacks because of Gene and Paul.
They wouldn't let him sing on albums. They'd take away his drum solo. They wouldn't let him play with Ace.
Also remember, that it was Paul doing more of the tormenting of Eric than Gene. Paul seems to have this problem with anyone who threatens him (and his ego).
The Paul Stanley solo tour--Eric saw the writing on the wall. He's be replaced in KISS one day.
There was a time, I think during the HITS tour, that he didn't talk to Gene and Paul for months.
Eric doing everything he could to show up for the GGR&R2U2 video because he's so afraid he's going to be replaced. It must have been torture on him to be fighting cancer and then being so worried for your job, your healthcare and other things.
Then Paul calling him on the phone and trying to get him to leave the band.
KISS couldn't fire him because then they'd be open to a lawsuit. So they kept pressuring him and pressuring him (supposedly) to leave the band. By doing so, they wouldn't have to pay for his health insurance anymore. And the rates had skyrocketed because of his condition.
Vinnie supposedly left during the recording of Revenge because of how they were treating him.
Gary Corbett just ripped Gene and Paul to shreds. He talks about telling Paul was an asshole he was over the phone. He said he'd never work with them again after that phone call I love when Gary is pointing out how Def Leppard did everything they could to accommodate their drummer and how Gene and Paul do the exact opposite.
At the end, supposedly Eric is asking what bands need a drummer. Is Whitesnake looking for a new one. So sad.
thanks, i really had no idea any of this went on. I on ly heard gene's interview on x-treme closeup and assumed they were devastated. guess not. wow.
Please don't take to heart. That's a very one-sided view of events from someone who constantly complains about how Vinnie was misreated by mean old Gene and Paul. Most of what he said are rumors that can't be proven and biased speculation.
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Re: KISS treatment of Eric Carr....
Thanks for the explanation Sphinx. Much appreciated.TheSphinx wrote:Going Blind wrote:Does anybody remember that Howard Stern interview, with Gene and Paul, where Gene threatened to beat up Howard because Howard made fun of a Kiss member that had passed?
Was that member Eric or Mark?
OR did I misconstrue the whole thing because I missed some of the context?
Gene seemed really upset with Howard and he did not seem to be faking it.
It had to do with Gary Corbett calling in the show and asking Gary to get Howard to mention Eric's passing on air.
So Gene hear's about it third hand from people and supposedly gets pissed. He calls up Gary D at Sterns an wants a copy of the show ec.
Gary D calls up GC and tells him about it and Gary says, "He heard everything third-hand from people calling him up. He didn't hear the show." And the way I felt about those guys at that moment, I said to Gary, "They weren't treating him good at the end. And now that it's a public thing, they're trying to make themselves look good, like they gave a shit. So fuck 'em. Don't send them anything. That's what I would say."
So Gary didn't.
Then at the dinner after the funeral, Gene and Paul aren't really welcome at any other table so they set down with Gary. Gene doesn't know Gary called up in the show in the first place. He asks Gary if he had heard the show and what was said.
So Gary tells him
" And what he had said was that Eric had passed away. And he said how long Eric had been in the band and how long the band had been around. He goes, "Man, these guys have been around for so long ... I can't even name one Kiss song." So Fred [Norris] goes inside and comes out with Kiss Alive II I think it was. But that was still Peter. I guess it was a live version of "Beth" they put on. I guess it was actually vinyl—he puts the needle down on the turntable and starts to play "Beth." He plays two seconds of it and goes, "Oh God, that's crap! No wonder the guy got cancer. He had to play that crap every night?" Then he puts the needle down again, listens to a little more of the song, and goes, "Oh my God, what a dirge. They ought to play this song at his funeral. People will be jumping in the box with him."
And Gary says, Gene was trying to hold back from laughing as he was telling him what Howard said on air.
Then Gary goes on Stern a few weeks later and talks about it.
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Re: KISS treatment of Eric Carr....
From my understanding, the "insurance" story was more the promoters wouldn't insure the tour with a drummer who may not be able to finish the tour.
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Re: KISS treatment of Eric Carr....
Homer Simpson wrote:thunder4dayz wrote:TheSphinx wrote:thunder4dayz wrote:I'm sure this has been discussed, but i'm new to the site, and reconnecting with the band as a whole after being upset that the farewell wasn't really it. What were the situations with Eric and insurance, or G&P's treatment of Eric as a whole. I've seen scattered among other posts here mentioning breifly some terrible things that G&P had done. Would anyone please shed some light on this topic for me. I thought they held him in high regard,m considering all the interviews after his death. what's the truth?
Gene and Paul treated Eric like crap. They respected his drumming but didn't think much of his songwriting etc.
In dealing with them, they pretty much sent Eric to the looney bin and he'd suffer panic and anxiety attacks because of Gene and Paul.
They wouldn't let him sing on albums. They'd take away his drum solo. They wouldn't let him play with Ace.
Also remember, that it was Paul doing more of the tormenting of Eric than Gene. Paul seems to have this problem with anyone who threatens him (and his ego).
The Paul Stanley solo tour--Eric saw the writing on the wall. He's be replaced in KISS one day.
There was a time, I think during the HITS tour, that he didn't talk to Gene and Paul for months.
Eric doing everything he could to show up for the GGR&R2U2 video because he's so afraid he's going to be replaced. It must have been torture on him to be fighting cancer and then being so worried for your job, your healthcare and other things.
Then Paul calling him on the phone and trying to get him to leave the band.
KISS couldn't fire him because then they'd be open to a lawsuit. So they kept pressuring him and pressuring him (supposedly) to leave the band. By doing so, they wouldn't have to pay for his health insurance anymore. And the rates had skyrocketed because of his condition.
Vinnie supposedly left during the recording of Revenge because of how they were treating him.
Gary Corbett just ripped Gene and Paul to shreds. He talks about telling Paul was an asshole he was over the phone. He said he'd never work with them again after that phone call I love when Gary is pointing out how Def Leppard did everything they could to accommodate their drummer and how Gene and Paul do the exact opposite.
At the end, supposedly Eric is asking what bands need a drummer. Is Whitesnake looking for a new one. So sad.
thanks, i really had no idea any of this went on. I on ly heard gene's interview on x-treme closeup and assumed they were devastated. guess not. wow.
Please don't take to heart. That's a very one-sided view of events from someone who constantly complains about how Vinnie was misreated by mean old Gene and Paul. Most of what he said are rumors that can't be proven and biased speculation.
Most of that comes from the "Eric Carr" story....
What's the matter--hard to believe Gene and Paul can be that shitty? It shouldn't be, everyone whose dealt with them has the same problems. Eric Carr, Vinnie, Ace, Peter, Corbett.
And CK Lendt also talked about how bad off Eric was because of dealing with Gene and Paul.
Why don't you read the book and see what Bob Kulick says or Bruce's ex wife?
While Bruce and his wife are sharing a Honda, Paul moves into a 5 story place with an elevator. Always nice of them to spend money like that after they've had Bruce cut his salary in 1/2.
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Re: KISS treatment of Eric Carr....
Eric could have easily stayed a member without going out on tour.NS2A wrote:From my understanding, the "insurance" story was more the promoters wouldn't insure the tour with a drummer who may not be able to finish the tour.
Also, if Eric did play, it wouldn't matter that much to the insurance brokers. Eric could be replaced and it wouldn't effect the tour one bit. It's wouldn't be like losing Gene or Paul.
Let me edit this by also pointing out... KISS didn't go out on TOUR anywhere near the time of this being talked about. So the "tour insurance" story is most likel more of G&P's b.s.
and not to take away from Eric but he would have been easily replaceable. And its not like this didn't happen before! Remember MSJ and Kulick being out at the same time together???!!! Anyone?!! So just remember..if it comes from G&P....put it past the smell test!!!
Last edited by TheSphinx on Tue Feb 05, 2013 7:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: KISS treatment of Eric Carr....
Hmmm, not so sure about that. Sure G&P were KISS essentially, but Eric certainly had his fans and followers.TheSphinx wrote:
Also, if Eric did play, it wouldn't matter that much to the insurance brokers. Eric could be replaced and it wouldn't effect the tour one bit. It's wouldn't be like losing Gene or Paul.
EDIT: Also it should be noted, that it's not so easy to just replace someone mid-tour, it's not inexpensive either.
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Re: KISS treatment of Eric Carr....
You either take two out (like on the Animalize tour) or you have one on standbye. But since KISS wasn't touring during any of this...it really didn't matter.brokentiny wrote:Hmmm, not so sure about that. Sure G&P were KISS essentially, but Eric certainly had his fans and followers.TheSphinx wrote:
Also, if Eric did play, it wouldn't matter that much to the insurance brokers. Eric could be replaced and it wouldn't effect the tour one bit. It's wouldn't be like losing Gene or Paul.
EDIT: Also it should be noted, that it's not so easy to just replace someone mid-tour, it's not inexpensive either.
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Re: KISS treatment of Eric Carr....
Easy tiger, it was a joke. My statement was nothing to do with who was bigger, but I figured you might pick up on that little dig. But it's useful to me to know you are a Whitesnake fan.Hey Man 2 wrote:KISS opened for Whitesnake in 1990. Whitesnake were also the bigger band then and the better gig.brokentiny wrote:Whitesnake? Wow, that is sad!TheSphinx wrote: At the end, supposedly Eric is asking what bands need a drummer. Is Whitesnake looking for a new one. So sad.
Seriously...this will be a 10 pager or locked I suspect.
It's an emotive subject, but one that few know any real facts about.
It's sad he left us. RIP the Fox.
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Re: KISS treatment of Eric Carr....
Eddie Trunk was the one that told the Whitesnake story in the Eric Carr story:
Eddie Trunk: "I'll tell you this. Eric was completely convinced that if he did get healthy that his place in the band was still very much in jeopardy. For whatever reason. He would call me and ask me, "Hey man, keep your ears open for me. Let me know if you hear of gigs. I heard that Whitesnake may be looking for someone—let me know." And I'd be like, "Eric, are you crazy? Stop worrying about this shit. First is your health, then you're healthy, your gig will be there. There's no way the fans will allow it." He's like, "No, man, I think it's over."
Eddie Trunk: "I'll tell you this. Eric was completely convinced that if he did get healthy that his place in the band was still very much in jeopardy. For whatever reason. He would call me and ask me, "Hey man, keep your ears open for me. Let me know if you hear of gigs. I heard that Whitesnake may be looking for someone—let me know." And I'd be like, "Eric, are you crazy? Stop worrying about this shit. First is your health, then you're healthy, your gig will be there. There's no way the fans will allow it." He's like, "No, man, I think it's over."
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Re: KISS treatment of Eric Carr....
Whitesnake. One of the main reasons 80s rock music sucked big timeHey Man 2 wrote:KISS opened for Whitesnake in 1990. Whitesnake were also the bigger band then and the better gig.brokentiny wrote:Whitesnake? Wow, that is sad!TheSphinx wrote: At the end, supposedly Eric is asking what bands need a drummer. Is Whitesnake looking for a new one. So sad.
Seriously...this will be a 10 pager or locked I suspect.
It's an emotive subject, but one that few know any real facts about.
It's sad he left us. RIP the Fox.
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Re: KISS treatment of Eric Carr....
Not even your significant other? Sorry to hear that.Hey Man 2 wrote:Nobody messes with my whitesnake.brokentiny wrote:Easy tiger, it was a joke. My statement was nothing to do with who was bigger, but I figured you might pick up on that little dig. But it's useful to me to know you are a Whitesnake fan.Hey Man 2 wrote:KISS opened for Whitesnake in 1990. Whitesnake were also the bigger band then and the better gig.brokentiny wrote:Whitesnake? Wow, that is sad!TheSphinx wrote: At the end, supposedly Eric is asking what bands need a drummer. Is Whitesnake looking for a new one. So sad.
Seriously...this will be a 10 pager or locked I suspect.
It's an emotive subject, but one that few know any real facts about.
It's sad he left us. RIP the Fox.
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Re: KISS treatment of Eric Carr....
Which is one side of the story as I stated.TheSphinx wrote: Most of that comes from the "Eric Carr" story....
I'm not claiming Gene and Paul are saints or even good people. That said, people that have dealt with Vinnie, Ace, Peter, and even Eric Carr have had problems with them.TheSphinx wrote: What's the matter--hard to believe Gene and Paul can be that shitty? It shouldn't be, everyone whose dealt with them has the same problems. Eric Carr, Vinnie, Ace, Peter, Corbett.
He also talked about how Eric was an insecure and overly sensitive person.TheSphinx wrote: And CK Lendt also talked about how bad off Eric was because of dealing with Gene and Paul.
I have. Why don't you realize that you're only accepting one side of the story? A side presented, in many cases, from people who only have a second hand account of what really happened.TheSphinx wrote: Why don't you read the book and see what Bob Kulick says or Bruce's ex wife?
And what does that have to do with Eric Carr? Besides, they can run their business as they see fit. Likewise, employees can decide whether or not they are being treated unfairly.TheSphinx wrote: While Bruce and his wife are sharing a Honda, Paul moves into a 5 story place with an elevator. Always nice of them to spend money like that after they've had Bruce cut his salary in 1/2.
Now on to some of your other points....
Listen, I like Eric. I've listened to Rockology. Maybe they could have used a couple of his songs. That said, many of his songs didn't really have a Kiss vibe to them. And if they didn't think much of his songwriting, what were they supposed to do? Record material they didn't like just to please him?TheSphinx wrote: Gene and Paul treated Eric like crap. They respected his drumming but didn't think much of his songwriting etc.
Again, many have said Eric was an insecure and overly sensitive person. It's possible his panic attacks were the result of that. Now maybe Gene and Paul didn't help to relieve his anxieties, but its something he would have to do with any employer. Plus, if things were really as bad as they were made out to seem, why didn't he leave Kiss? If he was treated so bad, wasn't get paid much, and it was not condusive to his health to the point some want to make it out to be, no job is worth that.TheSphinx wrote:In dealing with them, they pretty much sent Eric to the looney bin and he'd suffer panic and anxiety attacks because of Gene and Paul.
Another instance of you only telling half the story. Actually, more like 1/10 of the story. It was the band's manager that suggested the solos be cut on the HITS tour so the band could play more songs. And it wasn't just Eric's solo that was cut. Paul didn't get a guitar solo. Neither did Bruce. Gene didn't get a bass solo. By the end of the tour, Eric got his drum solo back. No one else got their solo back.TheSphinx wrote: They'd take away his drum solo.
TheSphinx wrote: They wouldn't let him play with Ace.
How many companies let their employees do freelance work for a former member of the company they have a bad relationship with? None. Not to mention, it would be interesting to see the timeline. Gene and Paul knew Ace was recording Hide Your Heart and weren't very happy about that. That could be another potential reason they didn't want Eric on Ace's album.
TheSphinx wrote: The Paul Stanley solo tour--Eric saw the writing on the wall. He's be replaced in KISS one day.
Again, isn't possible this can be traced back to Eric's insecurity?
TheSphinx wrote: There was a time, I think during the HITS tour, that he didn't talk to Gene and Paul for months.
He didn't talk to Bruce either. You neglected to mention that. You also neglected to mention that even Bruce said Eric was difficult to deal with around that time. Funny you're so quick to take the word of people who criticize Gene and Paul, but ignore what people say about everyone else.
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Re: KISS treatment of Eric Carr....
kinetic74 wrote:
Whitesnake. One of the main reasons 80s rock music sucked big time
Surely, you are joking! Whitesnake was great! Saw them open for Crue on the "Girls, Girls, Girls" tour and Whitesnake blew them off the stage. Sure you can complain about the "radio edits" but KISS did the same thing.
And they gave us Tawny Kitaen! Sure she didn't age well, but she was hotter than hell back then!
Slide It In is one of the greatest albums of all time! "Whitesnake" was just loaded with hits. "Slip Of The Tongue" was a big step down but it was blew away "Hot In The Shade".
Good To Be Bad and Forevermore sure blows away Sonic Boom and Monster!
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Re: KISS treatment of Eric Carr....
Oh, they all suck quite a bit.Hey Man 2 wrote:Yes - Slide It In and 1987 were horrible albums, but Asylum and Crazy Nights kicked fucking ass.kinetic74 wrote:Whitesnake. One of the main reasons 80s rock music sucked big timeHey Man 2 wrote:KISS opened for Whitesnake in 1990. Whitesnake were also the bigger band then and the better gig.brokentiny wrote:Whitesnake? Wow, that is sad!TheSphinx wrote: At the end, supposedly Eric is asking what bands need a drummer. Is Whitesnake looking for a new one. So sad.
Seriously...this will be a 10 pager or locked I suspect.
It's an emotive subject, but one that few know any real facts about.
It's sad he left us. RIP the Fox.
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Re: KISS treatment of Eric Carr....
So much speculation from those who weren't there.
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Re: KISS treatment of Eric Carr....
This makes it sound like Eric was a weak personality. Why couldn't he stand up to G&P?TheSphinx wrote:thunder4dayz wrote:I'm sure this has been discussed, but i'm new to the site, and reconnecting with the band as a whole after being upset that the farewell wasn't really it. What were the situations with Eric and insurance, or G&P's treatment of Eric as a whole. I've seen scattered among other posts here mentioning breifly some terrible things that G&P had done. Would anyone please shed some light on this topic for me. I thought they held him in high regard,m considering all the interviews after his death. what's the truth?
Gene and Paul treated Eric like crap. They respected his drumming but didn't think much of his songwriting etc.
In dealing with them, they pretty much sent Eric to the looney bin and he'd suffer panic and anxiety attacks because of Gene and Paul.
They wouldn't let him sing on albums. They'd take away his drum solo. They wouldn't let him play with Ace.
Also remember, that it was Paul doing more of the tormenting of Eric than Gene. Paul seems to have this problem with anyone who threatens him (and his ego).
The Paul Stanley solo tour--Eric saw the writing on the wall. He's be replaced in KISS one day.
There was a time, I think during the HITS tour, that he didn't talk to Gene and Paul for months.
Eric doing everything he could to show up for the GGR&R2U2 video because he's so afraid he's going to be replaced. It must have been torture on him to be fighting cancer and then being so worried for your job, your healthcare and other things.
Then Paul calling him on the phone and trying to get him to leave the band.
KISS couldn't fire him because then they'd be open to a lawsuit. So they kept pressuring him and pressuring him (supposedly) to leave the band. By doing so, they wouldn't have to pay for his health insurance anymore. And the rates had skyrocketed because of his condition.
Vinnie supposedly left during the recording of Revenge because of how they were treating him.
Gary Corbett just ripped Gene and Paul to shreds. He talks about telling Paul was an asshole he was over the phone. He said he'd never work with them again after that phone call I love when Gary is pointing out how Def Leppard did everything they could to accommodate their drummer and how Gene and Paul do the exact opposite.
At the end, supposedly Eric is asking what bands need a drummer. Is Whitesnake looking for a new one. So sad.
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Re: KISS treatment of Eric Carr....
JimiG wrote:So much speculation from those who weren't there.
If that is the standard the board must live by, then you might as well shut it down.
There are lots of stories out there about this, why can it not be speculated on? Because it makes Gene and Paul look bad?
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Re: KISS treatment of Eric Carr....
Terrible. Thank god that Nirvana and Pearl Jam came along to make all those awful hair metal bands unemployed.Hey Man 2 wrote:No - the KISS albums do, but Slide It In and 1987 were great hard rock albums in the 80's.kinetic74 wrote:Hey Man 2 wrote:Yes - Slide It In and 1987 were horrible albums, but Asylum and Crazy Nights kicked fucking ass.kinetic74 wrote:Whitesnake. One of the main reasons 80s rock music sucked big timeHey Man 2 wrote:KISS opened for Whitesnake in 1990. Whitesnake were also the bigger band then and the better gig.brokentiny wrote:Whitesnake? Wow, that is sad!TheSphinx wrote: At the end, supposedly Eric is asking what bands need a drummer. Is Whitesnake looking for a new one. So sad.
Seriously...this will be a 10 pager or locked I suspect.
It's an emotive subject, but one that few know any real facts about.
It's sad he left us. RIP the Fox.
Oh, they all suck quite a bit.
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Re: KISS treatment of Eric Carr....
Isn't it fair to say that They WANTED Eric in Kiss in the first place (Positive thing) but they only hired him as a drummer? Doesn't Paul have the right to ask him to only do what he was hired for? In all hired gun scenerios which I thought this was, this is pretty common. Not sure about the rest. I was not there. Obviously some of you were.
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Re: KISS treatment of Eric Carr....
Bubba wrote:Isn't it fair to say that They WANTED Eric in Kiss in the first place (Positive thing) but they only hired him as a drummer? Doesn't Paul have the right to ask him to only do what he was hired for? In all hired gun scenerios which I thought this was, this is pretty common. Not sure about the rest. I was not there. Obviously some of you were.
Where did anyone claim they were there?
Gene and Paul treated him badly. There is enough anecdotal evidence to suggest that. To what extent? That is a good question.
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Re: KISS treatment of Eric Carr....
More 80's rock haters.kinetic74 wrote:Whitesnake. One of the main reasons 80s rock music sucked big timeHey Man 2 wrote:KISS opened for Whitesnake in 1990. Whitesnake were also the bigger band then and the better gig.brokentiny wrote:Whitesnake? Wow, that is sad!TheSphinx wrote: At the end, supposedly Eric is asking what bands need a drummer. Is Whitesnake looking for a new one. So sad.
Seriously...this will be a 10 pager or locked I suspect.
It's an emotive subject, but one that few know any real facts about.
It's sad he left us. RIP the Fox.
Still of the Night = good
Smells Like Teen Spirit = bad
Any questions?
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Re: KISS treatment of Eric Carr....
This guy is nuts. Go ask him how Vinnie's ass smells on the inside...Anomaly wrote:Left?Vinnie supposedly left during the recording of Revenge because of how they were treating him.
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Re: KISS treatment of Eric Carr....
Eric's sister has said that he was treated badly in the end, and was fired so Kiss would not have to pay the Hospital bills etc.
Supposedly Singer was in the band before Eric's Death.
But I am sure there is a lot to it.Kiss was not doing amazing at the time and I am sure as cold as it may sound they had to think about how they were going to move on.
Supposedly Singer was in the band before Eric's Death.
But I am sure there is a lot to it.Kiss was not doing amazing at the time and I am sure as cold as it may sound they had to think about how they were going to move on.
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Re: KISS treatment of Eric Carr....
Yes. plenty.PelagicJoe wrote:More 80's rock haters.kinetic74 wrote:Whitesnake. One of the main reasons 80s rock music sucked big timeHey Man 2 wrote:KISS opened for Whitesnake in 1990. Whitesnake were also the bigger band then and the better gig.brokentiny wrote:Whitesnake? Wow, that is sad!TheSphinx wrote: At the end, supposedly Eric is asking what bands need a drummer. Is Whitesnake looking for a new one. So sad.
Seriously...this will be a 10 pager or locked I suspect.
It's an emotive subject, but one that few know any real facts about.
It's sad he left us. RIP the Fox.
Still of the Night = good
Smells Like Teen Spirit = bad
Any questions?
Still of the night (Generic 80s power ballads)
Smells Like Teen Spirit (iconic album that defined a whole generation - whether you like it or not)
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Re: KISS treatment of Eric Carr....
This! You nailed it dude.TheSphinx wrote:thunder4dayz wrote:I'm sure this has been discussed, but i'm new to the site, and reconnecting with the band as a whole after being upset that the farewell wasn't really it. What were the situations with Eric and insurance, or G&P's treatment of Eric as a whole. I've seen scattered among other posts here mentioning breifly some terrible things that G&P had done. Would anyone please shed some light on this topic for me. I thought they held him in high regard,m considering all the interviews after his death. what's the truth?
Gene and Paul treated Eric like crap. They respected his drumming but didn't think much of his songwriting etc.
In dealing with them, they pretty much sent Eric to the looney bin and he'd suffer panic and anxiety attacks because of Gene and Paul.
They wouldn't let him sing on albums. They'd take away his drum solo. They wouldn't let him play with Ace.
Also remember, that it was Paul doing more of the tormenting of Eric than Gene. Paul seems to have this problem with anyone who threatens him (and his ego).
The Paul Stanley solo tour--Eric saw the writing on the wall. He's be replaced in KISS one day.
There was a time, I think during the HITS tour, that he didn't talk to Gene and Paul for months.
Eric doing everything he could to show up for the GGR&R2U2 video because he's so afraid he's going to be replaced. It must have been torture on him to be fighting cancer and then being so worried for your job, your healthcare and other things.
Then Paul calling him on the phone and trying to get him to leave the band.
KISS couldn't fire him because then they'd be open to a lawsuit. So they kept pressuring him and pressuring him (supposedly) to leave the band. By doing so, they wouldn't have to pay for his health insurance anymore. And the rates had skyrocketed because of his condition.
Vinnie supposedly left during the recording of Revenge because of how they were treating him.
Gary Corbett just ripped Gene and Paul to shreds. He talks about telling Paul was an asshole he was over the phone. He said he'd never work with them again after that phone call I love when Gary is pointing out how Def Leppard did everything they could to accommodate their drummer and how Gene and Paul do the exact opposite.
At the end, supposedly Eric is asking what bands need a drummer. Is Whitesnake looking for a new one. So sad.
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Re: KISS treatment of Eric Carr....
Don't we all need to pay our own Hospital bills. I mean don't get me wrong, it is sad as sh*t that Eric got Cancer but Did Kiss really have a lot of money at the time? Would Eric pay Gene's hospital bills if he fell ill? I think not.. That is why we buy insurance. I would think Eric could afford health insurance no? If I fall ill my employer does not pay my bills either. I think they had to find someone to continue on if Eric was not ell enough.. What are they supposed to do? Eric got cancer not Kiss. . Sad reality. I do not get how everyone can blame Gene and Paul for everything all the time. I do understand it is a bad situation and I really liked Eric Carr and his drumming. I do not think his strong point was his voice or writing from recordings I have heard... He was talented no question and seemingly a great person.
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Re: KISS treatment of Eric Carr....
In "The Eric Carr Story" Bruce says many times Eric wasn't always easy to deal with or took things too personally. I do beleive he could have been treated better by Gene & Paul. I always think of Jason Newsted replacing Cliff Burton in Metallica. Lars and James treated Jason like shit and he finally got fed up and left. Then you watch "Some Kind Of Monster" an dthye treat Robert with frickin kid gloves. I think that's why you see G&P teating Eric S and Tommy better. Even Gene appearing on Bruce's solo album and Bruce attending some shows backstage shows (i believe) G&P know they fucked up with Eric Carr and maybe trying to make ammends.
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Re: KISS treatment of Eric Carr....
Homer Simpson wrote:Which is one side of the story as I stated.TheSphinx wrote: Most of that comes from the "Eric Carr" story....
I'm not claiming Gene and Paul are saints or even good people. That said, people that have dealt with Vinnie, Ace, Peter, and even Eric Carr have had problems with them.TheSphinx wrote: What's the matter--hard to believe Gene and Paul can be that shitty? It shouldn't be, everyone whose dealt with them has the same problems. Eric Carr, Vinnie, Ace, Peter, Corbett.
He also talked about how Eric was an insecure and overly sensitive person.TheSphinx wrote: And CK Lendt also talked about how bad off Eric was because of dealing with Gene and Paul.
I have. Why don't you realize that you're only accepting one side of the story? A side presented, in many cases, from people who only have a second hand account of what really happened.TheSphinx wrote: Why don't you read the book and see what Bob Kulick says or Bruce's ex wife?
And what does that have to do with Eric Carr? Besides, they can run their business as they see fit. Likewise, employees can decide whether or not they are being treated unfairly.TheSphinx wrote: While Bruce and his wife are sharing a Honda, Paul moves into a 5 story place with an elevator. Always nice of them to spend money like that after they've had Bruce cut his salary in 1/2.
Now on to some of your other points....
Listen, I like Eric. I've listened to Rockology. Maybe they could have used a couple of his songs. That said, many of his songs didn't really have a Kiss vibe to them. And if they didn't think much of his songwriting, what were they supposed to do? Record material they didn't like just to please him?TheSphinx wrote: Gene and Paul treated Eric like crap. They respected his drumming but didn't think much of his songwriting etc.
Again, many have said Eric was an insecure and overly sensitive person. It's possible his panic attacks were the result of that. Now maybe Gene and Paul didn't help to relieve his anxieties, but its something he would have to do with any employer. Plus, if things were really as bad as they were made out to seem, why didn't he leave Kiss? If he was treated so bad, wasn't get paid much, and it was not condusive to his health to the point some want to make it out to be, no job is worth that.TheSphinx wrote:In dealing with them, they pretty much sent Eric to the looney bin and he'd suffer panic and anxiety attacks because of Gene and Paul.
Another instance of you only telling half the story. Actually, more like 1/10 of the story. It was the band's manager that suggested the solos be cut on the HITS tour so the band could play more songs. And it wasn't just Eric's solo that was cut. Paul didn't get a guitar solo. Neither did Bruce. Gene didn't get a bass solo. By the end of the tour, Eric got his drum solo back. No one else got their solo back.TheSphinx wrote: They'd take away his drum solo.
TheSphinx wrote: They wouldn't let him play with Ace.
How many companies let their employees do freelance work for a former member of the company they have a bad relationship with? None. Not to mention, it would be interesting to see the timeline. Gene and Paul knew Ace was recording Hide Your Heart and weren't very happy about that. That could be another potential reason they didn't want Eric on Ace's album.
TheSphinx wrote: The Paul Stanley solo tour--Eric saw the writing on the wall. He's be replaced in KISS one day.
Again, isn't possible this can be traced back to Eric's insecurity?
TheSphinx wrote: There was a time, I think during the HITS tour, that he didn't talk to Gene and Paul for months.
He didn't talk to Bruce either. You neglected to mention that. You also neglected to mention that even Bruce said Eric was difficult to deal with around that time. Funny you're so quick to take the word of people who criticize Gene and Paul, but ignore what people say about everyone else.
Wow very interesting. I think you're spot on. Also don't forget there are stories from the hated Paul and Gene where they asked Eric to come with them to the after-show party and he declined. They said he would go lay in the bathtub. Also maybe there was something there between Eric and Bruce because Bruce also made a comment on X-treme Close-Up about how much he liked Singer and how they connected immediately. "He knew all my guitar parts, air guitar parts of course. I love that about him" and yes Carr had some insecurity issues. That's why he was so reclusive. And i have NEVER heard Paul or Gene say one bad thing about Carr, ever. Maybe they could have treated him better but seems far fetched that they treated him like shit. I get their egos were fucked up in the 80's and they were desperate to keep Kiss going. But all this is just hard to imagine being true.
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Re: KISS treatment of Eric Carr....
brokentiny wrote:Easy tiger, it was a joke. My statement was nothing to do with who was bigger, but I figured you might pick up on that little dig. But it's useful to me to know you are a Whitesnake fan.Hey Man 2 wrote:KISS opened for Whitesnake in 1990. Whitesnake were also the bigger band then and the better gig.brokentiny wrote:Whitesnake? Wow, that is sad!TheSphinx wrote: At the end, supposedly Eric is asking what bands need a drummer. Is Whitesnake looking for a new one. So sad.
Seriously...this will be a 10 pager or locked I suspect.
It's an emotive subject, but one that few know any real facts about.
It's sad he left us. RIP the Fox.
Whitesnake are great band, even their current albums are damn good...Certainly better listening than Monster or Sonic Boom :mrgreen:
You stick to YOUR bands like Warrant, Dangerous Toys and Britney Fox eh
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Re: KISS treatment of Eric Carr....
Great posts. Add to that the fact that on Kissology II, Paul says that in retrospect, there are things that they should and would have done different if they knew any better. I guess it was a really difficult position for Gene and Paul as well. On the one hand, they had to keep the band going but on the other it made them look like they didn't even care about Eric. No matter how you proceed in this matter, you are not coming out of it as a nice guy.Strutter67 wrote:Homer Simpson wrote:Which is one side of the story as I stated.TheSphinx wrote: Most of that comes from the "Eric Carr" story....
I'm not claiming Gene and Paul are saints or even good people. That said, people that have dealt with Vinnie, Ace, Peter, and even Eric Carr have had problems with them.TheSphinx wrote: What's the matter--hard to believe Gene and Paul can be that shitty? It shouldn't be, everyone whose dealt with them has the same problems. Eric Carr, Vinnie, Ace, Peter, Corbett.
He also talked about how Eric was an insecure and overly sensitive person.TheSphinx wrote: And CK Lendt also talked about how bad off Eric was because of dealing with Gene and Paul.
I have. Why don't you realize that you're only accepting one side of the story? A side presented, in many cases, from people who only have a second hand account of what really happened.TheSphinx wrote: Why don't you read the book and see what Bob Kulick says or Bruce's ex wife?
And what does that have to do with Eric Carr? Besides, they can run their business as they see fit. Likewise, employees can decide whether or not they are being treated unfairly.TheSphinx wrote: While Bruce and his wife are sharing a Honda, Paul moves into a 5 story place with an elevator. Always nice of them to spend money like that after they've had Bruce cut his salary in 1/2.
Now on to some of your other points....
Listen, I like Eric. I've listened to Rockology. Maybe they could have used a couple of his songs. That said, many of his songs didn't really have a Kiss vibe to them. And if they didn't think much of his songwriting, what were they supposed to do? Record material they didn't like just to please him?TheSphinx wrote: Gene and Paul treated Eric like crap. They respected his drumming but didn't think much of his songwriting etc.
Again, many have said Eric was an insecure and overly sensitive person. It's possible his panic attacks were the result of that. Now maybe Gene and Paul didn't help to relieve his anxieties, but its something he would have to do with any employer. Plus, if things were really as bad as they were made out to seem, why didn't he leave Kiss? If he was treated so bad, wasn't get paid much, and it was not condusive to his health to the point some want to make it out to be, no job is worth that.TheSphinx wrote:In dealing with them, they pretty much sent Eric to the looney bin and he'd suffer panic and anxiety attacks because of Gene and Paul.
Another instance of you only telling half the story. Actually, more like 1/10 of the story. It was the band's manager that suggested the solos be cut on the HITS tour so the band could play more songs. And it wasn't just Eric's solo that was cut. Paul didn't get a guitar solo. Neither did Bruce. Gene didn't get a bass solo. By the end of the tour, Eric got his drum solo back. No one else got their solo back.TheSphinx wrote: They'd take away his drum solo.
TheSphinx wrote: They wouldn't let him play with Ace.
How many companies let their employees do freelance work for a former member of the company they have a bad relationship with? None. Not to mention, it would be interesting to see the timeline. Gene and Paul knew Ace was recording Hide Your Heart and weren't very happy about that. That could be another potential reason they didn't want Eric on Ace's album.
TheSphinx wrote: The Paul Stanley solo tour--Eric saw the writing on the wall. He's be replaced in KISS one day.
Again, isn't possible this can be traced back to Eric's insecurity?
TheSphinx wrote: There was a time, I think during the HITS tour, that he didn't talk to Gene and Paul for months.
He didn't talk to Bruce either. You neglected to mention that. You also neglected to mention that even Bruce said Eric was difficult to deal with around that time. Funny you're so quick to take the word of people who criticize Gene and Paul, but ignore what people say about everyone else.
Wow very interesting. I think you're spot on. Also don't forget there are stories from the hated Paul and Gene where they asked Eric to come with them to the after-show party and he declined. They said he would go lay in the bathtub. Also maybe there was something there between Eric and Bruce because Bruce also made a comment on X-treme Close-Up about how much he liked Singer and how they connected immediately. "He knew all my guitar parts, air guitar parts of course. I love that about him" and yes Carr had some insecurity issues. That's why he was so reclusive. And i have NEVER heard Paul or Gene say one bad thing about Carr, ever. Maybe they could have treated him better but seems far fetched that they treated him like shit. I get their egos were fucked up in the 80's and they were desperate to keep Kiss going. But all this is just hard to imagine being true.
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Re: KISS treatment of Eric Carr....
What the hell? If you only knew some of the stuff in my collection...Hey Man would have field day bagging out my music taste, but there certainly is no Warrant, Dangerous Toys (can't believe there's actually a band called that) and Britney Fox sir and proudly.steveh67 wrote:brokentiny wrote:Easy tiger, it was a joke. My statement was nothing to do with who was bigger, but I figured you might pick up on that little dig. But it's useful to me to know you are a Whitesnake fan.Hey Man 2 wrote:KISS opened for Whitesnake in 1990. Whitesnake were also the bigger band then and the better gig.brokentiny wrote:Whitesnake? Wow, that is sad!TheSphinx wrote: At the end, supposedly Eric is asking what bands need a drummer. Is Whitesnake looking for a new one. So sad.
Seriously...this will be a 10 pager or locked I suspect.
It's an emotive subject, but one that few know any real facts about.
It's sad he left us. RIP the Fox.
Whitesnake are great band, even their current albums are damn good...Certainly better listening than Monster or Sonic Boom :mrgreen:
You stick to YOUR bands like Warrant, Dangerous Toys and Britney Fox eh
For the record, I have no issue with people liking Whitesnake, but I think they are absolute rubbish...see how that works?
Now, back to the regularly scheduled topic.
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Re: KISS treatment of Eric Carr....
Bruce loved EC like his brother, you are soo far off there.Strutter67 wrote:Homer Simpson wrote:Which is one side of the story as I stated.TheSphinx wrote: Most of that comes from the "Eric Carr" story....
I'm not claiming Gene and Paul are saints or even good people. That said, people that have dealt with Vinnie, Ace, Peter, and even Eric Carr have had problems with them.TheSphinx wrote: What's the matter--hard to believe Gene and Paul can be that shitty? It shouldn't be, everyone whose dealt with them has the same problems. Eric Carr, Vinnie, Ace, Peter, Corbett.
He also talked about how Eric was an insecure and overly sensitive person.TheSphinx wrote: And CK Lendt also talked about how bad off Eric was because of dealing with Gene and Paul.
I have. Why don't you realize that you're only accepting one side of the story? A side presented, in many cases, from people who only have a second hand account of what really happened.TheSphinx wrote: Why don't you read the book and see what Bob Kulick says or Bruce's ex wife?
And what does that have to do with Eric Carr? Besides, they can run their business as they see fit. Likewise, employees can decide whether or not they are being treated unfairly.TheSphinx wrote: While Bruce and his wife are sharing a Honda, Paul moves into a 5 story place with an elevator. Always nice of them to spend money like that after they've had Bruce cut his salary in 1/2.
Now on to some of your other points....
Listen, I like Eric. I've listened to Rockology. Maybe they could have used a couple of his songs. That said, many of his songs didn't really have a Kiss vibe to them. And if they didn't think much of his songwriting, what were they supposed to do? Record material they didn't like just to please him?TheSphinx wrote: Gene and Paul treated Eric like crap. They respected his drumming but didn't think much of his songwriting etc.
Again, many have said Eric was an insecure and overly sensitive person. It's possible his panic attacks were the result of that. Now maybe Gene and Paul didn't help to relieve his anxieties, but its something he would have to do with any employer. Plus, if things were really as bad as they were made out to seem, why didn't he leave Kiss? If he was treated so bad, wasn't get paid much, and it was not condusive to his health to the point some want to make it out to be, no job is worth that.TheSphinx wrote:In dealing with them, they pretty much sent Eric to the looney bin and he'd suffer panic and anxiety attacks because of Gene and Paul.
Another instance of you only telling half the story. Actually, more like 1/10 of the story. It was the band's manager that suggested the solos be cut on the HITS tour so the band could play more songs. And it wasn't just Eric's solo that was cut. Paul didn't get a guitar solo. Neither did Bruce. Gene didn't get a bass solo. By the end of the tour, Eric got his drum solo back. No one else got their solo back.TheSphinx wrote: They'd take away his drum solo.
TheSphinx wrote: They wouldn't let him play with Ace.
How many companies let their employees do freelance work for a former member of the company they have a bad relationship with? None. Not to mention, it would be interesting to see the timeline. Gene and Paul knew Ace was recording Hide Your Heart and weren't very happy about that. That could be another potential reason they didn't want Eric on Ace's album.
TheSphinx wrote: The Paul Stanley solo tour--Eric saw the writing on the wall. He's be replaced in KISS one day.
Again, isn't possible this can be traced back to Eric's insecurity?
TheSphinx wrote: There was a time, I think during the HITS tour, that he didn't talk to Gene and Paul for months.
He didn't talk to Bruce either. You neglected to mention that. You also neglected to mention that even Bruce said Eric was difficult to deal with around that time. Funny you're so quick to take the word of people who criticize Gene and Paul, but ignore what people say about everyone else.
Wow very interesting. I think you're spot on. Also don't forget there are stories from the hated Paul and Gene where they asked Eric to come with them to the after-show party and he declined. They said he would go lay in the bathtub. Also maybe there was something there between Eric and Bruce because Bruce also made a comment on X-treme Close-Up about how much he liked Singer and how they connected immediately. "He knew all my guitar parts, air guitar parts of course. I love that about him" and yes Carr had some insecurity issues. That's why he was so reclusive. And i have NEVER heard Paul or Gene say one bad thing about Carr, ever. Maybe they could have treated him better but seems far fetched that they treated him like shit. I get their egos were fucked up in the 80's and they were desperate to keep Kiss going. But all this is just hard to imagine being true.
Remember the song he wrote with union or the song on his early solo album.
Rockheads cd release was contributed to BK working with EC's family also.
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Re: KISS treatment of Eric Carr....
Bubba wrote:Don't we all need to pay our own Hospital bills. I mean don't get me wrong, it is sad as sh*t that Eric got Cancer but Did Kiss really have a lot of money at the time? Would Eric pay Gene's hospital bills if he fell ill? I think not.. That is why we buy insurance. I would think Eric could afford health insurance no? If I fall ill my employer does not pay my bills either. I think they had to find someone to continue on if Eric was not ell enough.. What are they supposed to do? Eric got cancer not Kiss. . Sad reality. I do not get how everyone can blame Gene and Paul for everything all the time. I do understand it is a bad situation and I really liked Eric Carr and his drumming. I do not think his strong point was his voice or writing from recordings I have heard... He was talented no question and seemingly a great person.
Gene didn't work for Eric, Eric worked for Gene.