OUTRAGE!!! - RRHOF INDUCTS UNKNOWN FORMER DRUMMER W/NIRVANA!

sicksickphil · Post by **sicksickphil** » Fri Mar 14, 2014 11:20 am

necronomicon wrote:Channing's contribution was to 1 of 3 studio albums and he was in the band for 2 of the 7 years it was active, so proportionally his contribution is definitely similar to Singer, Thayer, Carr and Kulick.

chad didn't even play on all of bleach.

PUNCHLINE · Post by **PUNCHLINE** » Fri Mar 14, 2014 11:24 am

Uzi_of_Ooze wrote:
Curveboy wrote:
PUNCHLINE wrote: Irrelevent. Kirk Hammet was a big Kiss fan too, how many Metallica albums are influenced by Kiss? lol.

Besides, Bernard Edwards produced the debut Power Station album, not Andy Taylor. The drum sounds were well in vogue by the early 80s, the Creatures drum sounds were following what was fashionable at that time, big heavy, reverb drenched drums, albeit with a Levee Breaks vibe to it. They certainly werent groundbreaking or influential.

https://www.moderndrummer.com/site/2005 ... yMhHj9_vAk
MD: Let’s talk about that big drum sound you created in the 80′s.

Tony: All these years, people wanted to sample me. Everyone always assumed that there was some kind of special knobs turned when we did that first Power Station record.

And right there is the bullshit...Tony didn't create the big 80's drum sound...Eric Carr did years before Powerstation.

As for Metallica; I'd say every Metallica album is influenced by KISS. Without KISS, there is no Metallica. Especially Hotter Than Hell.
I never picked up on this while listening to Metallica. You'd think if they were such an influence they would have covered KISS on "Garage Inc.".

The only member of Metallica back then who was a big Kiss fan was Kirk, and he as much to influence Metallica`s sound as you or I had, lol. The first album was written before he joined, and he didnt even play rhythm guitar on a studio album of theirs until Load.

Uzi_of_Ooze · Post by **Uzi_of_Ooze** » Fri Mar 14, 2014 11:29 am

sicksickphil wrote:
necronomicon wrote:Channing's contribution was to 1 of 3 studio albums and he was in the band for 2 of the 7 years it was active, so proportionally his contribution is definitely similar to Singer, Thayer, Carr and Kulick.
chad didn't even play on all of bleach.

Curveboy · Post by **Curveboy** » Fri Mar 14, 2014 11:33 am

PUNCHLINE wrote: The only member of Metallica back then who was a big Kiss fan was Kirk, and he as much to influence Metallica`s sound as you or I had, lol. The first album was written before he joined, and he didnt even play rhythm guitar on a studio album of theirs until Load.

Lars has spoken at length about his love of KISS

KISS70 · Post by **KISS70** » Fri Mar 14, 2014 11:56 am

SPIN Magazine:

Does Nirvana's Pre-Dave Grohl Drummer Belong in the Rock Hall?

'Bleach' timekeeper Chad Channing will be inducted, according to a report, and that only seems fair

Nirvana's induction into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame next month raises the question of who, exactly, will be inducted. Dave Grohl and Krist Novoselic — who, along with the late Kurt Cobain, made up the band's best-known lineup — are shoo-ins, of course. But what about Chad Channing, the legendary alternative-rock group's drummer from 1988 to 1990?

He's in, too, according to the Rock Hall trackers over at Future Rock Legends. Channing, who currently leads the band Before Cars, reportedly said he'll be there for the induction ceremony but doesn't expect to perform (the event takes place on April 10 at Barclays Center in Brooklyn). A rep for the Rock Hall didn't respond this morning to requests for confirmation.

The report has already prompted a backlash over on a KISS message board, as the Rock Hall is inducting only the makeup-wearing band's original lineup. But Channing joining Grohl and Novoselic for the induction wouldn't be surprising — the Rock Hall mentions him in its Nirvana bio. And despite barely missing out on the band's explosion into stardom, he deserves his place in music history.

After all, Channing played drums on Nirvana's landmark debut album, Bleach. He played at the live shows that helped make the group's early reputation, whether at Cambridge, Massachusett's Manray in 1990 or at Hoboken, New Jersey's Maxwell's and New York's Pyramid in 1989. His name is on Nirvana's original Sub Pop contract, for crying out loud. And the best reason of all: He's actually on Nevermind, though he didn't get any royalties.

The Rock Hall should tell Channing, "Come as you are."

http://www.spin.com/articles/nirvana-dr ... ave-grohl/

Post by **RisingForce** » Fri Mar 14, 2014 11:59 am

Gotta love it. People upset that an "unworthy" person is going in because they have another unworthy set of people they want in that didn't make the cut. It seems the thought is "well, you made this mistake with certain other people, so it again for the people in KISS who really shouldn't be in either".

sicksickphil · Post by **sicksickphil** » Fri Mar 14, 2014 12:07 pm

RisingForce wrote:Gotta love it. People upset that an "unworthy" person is going in because they have another unworthy set of people they want in that didn't make the cut. It seems the thought is "well, you made this mistake with certain other people, so it again for the people in KISS who really shouldn't be in either".

I never said chad was unworthy. However, BY HOF STANDERS, if Chad is worthy then every member of Kiss including Mark is worthy.

Uzi_of_Ooze · Post by **Uzi_of_Ooze** » Fri Mar 14, 2014 12:09 pm

RisingForce wrote:Gotta love it. People upset that an "unworthy" person is going in because they have another unworthy set of people they want in that didn't make the cut. It seems the thought is "well, you made this mistake with certain other people, so it again for the people in KISS who really shouldn't be in either".

I look at it as more: "If this guy is worthy why aren't members of KISS who have similar credentials?"

EDIT: Yup, Phil nailed it before me.

KISS70 · Post by **KISS70** » Fri Mar 14, 2014 12:36 pm

If Chad Channing deserves to be inducted into the RRHOF...

Then, so does VINNIE VINCENT!

There. I said it. I hope Sphinx is happy.

Homer Simpson · Post by **Homer Simpson** » Fri Mar 14, 2014 12:38 pm

sicksickphil wrote:
RisingForce wrote:Gotta love it. People upset that an "unworthy" person is going in because they have another unworthy set of people they want in that didn't make the cut. It seems the thought is "well, you made this mistake with certain other people, so it again for the people in KISS who really shouldn't be in either".

I never said chad was unworthy. However, BY HOF STANDERS, if Chad is worthy then every member of Kiss including Mark is worthy.

Well said.

Anomaly · Post by **Anomaly** » Fri Mar 14, 2014 1:27 pm

Ginski · Post by **Ginski** » Fri Mar 14, 2014 1:37 pm

Ace Fury wrote:Chad should be inducted. Bleach is a better album then Nevermind.

This. Plus Chad played drums on the original demos for Nevermind before Dave Grohl was in the band. A lot of those parts were just copied by Grohl on the final album.

Now if they induct Pat Smear, I will have a problem since he didn't appear on any of their studio albums.

deleteduser20210208 · Post by **deleteduser20210208** » Fri Mar 14, 2014 1:52 pm

Oh the drama!!!
He is not unknown, at least for Nirvana fans who should be the only ones who care about Nirvana getting into the RARHOF.
KISS fans should worry about their own backyard and not shit on their neighbours lawn.

Homer Simpson · Post by **Homer Simpson** » Fri Mar 14, 2014 2:30 pm

RisingForce wrote:Gotta love it. People upset that an "unworthy" person is going in because they have another unworthy set of people they want in that didn't make the cut. It seems the thought is "well, you made this mistake with certain other people, so it again for the people in KISS who really shouldn't be in either".

In addition to what Phil said, I'll just add the other real problem has to do with "consistency" as opposed to "worth". As I mentioned in another thread, I really suspect there are no real hard and fast rules just so those who call the shots can do so based on their own biases rather than objective criteria.

Post by **Admin** » Fri Mar 14, 2014 2:55 pm

It's not like it's Jason Everman...

KissCannibal · Post by **KissCannibal** » Fri Mar 14, 2014 3:03 pm

Admin wrote:It's not like it's Jason Everman...

lol

Ace Fury · Post by **Ace Fury** » Fri Mar 14, 2014 3:08 pm

I still feel bad Jason ended up quitting.

he was in a f*cked spot...who knew Metallica was going to go on for another 14-30 years at that point

oh man

he so regrets that choice....

god.

Hi I'm Witz · Post by **Hi I'm Witz** » Fri Mar 14, 2014 3:12 pm

kissjrj wrote:Paul and Gene shouldn't even show up at this crappy ceremony; if they do they should call them out and say "no thank you" and walk away from the podium.

Will never happen!! I don't care how much Paul and Gene try and downplay the HOF, they WANT the validation! It means too much to their egos!

rockgod · Post by **rockgod** » Fri Mar 14, 2014 3:21 pm

I really don't give a fuck but this is clearly a blatant slap in the face to KISS. The timing of this decision is not a coincidence.

deleteduser20210208 · Post by **deleteduser20210208** » Fri Mar 14, 2014 3:31 pm

rockgod wrote:I really don't give a fuck but this is clearly a blatant slap in the face to KISS. The timing of this decision is not a coincidence.

Clearly it doesn't matter, but clearly KISS should petition and try harder to get others in.
Clearly.

Floomashoo · Post by **Floomashoo** » Fri Mar 14, 2014 4:00 pm

Hi I'm Witz wrote:
kissjrj wrote:Paul and Gene shouldn't even show up at this crappy ceremony; if they do they should call them out and say "no thank you" and walk away from the podium.
Will never happen!! I don't care how much Paul and Gene try and downplay the HOF, they WANT the validation! It means too much to their egos!

They should go to the HOF to accept the award. Say thank you to the fans for their patience and tell the HOF to go FUCK themselves. See if the HOF throws them out for being too rock & roll.

Dave Marsh is proof of how unhinged these peoples opinions are if he believes the likes of WASP & Twisted Sister deserve induction rather than KISS. I like WASP (not so much TS) but there is no way any unbiased person with any musically knowledge would put these in before KISS, both bands are so KISS-like in their approach to their music and performance, only KISS were doing it a decade earlier far more successfully.

PUNCHLINE · Post by **PUNCHLINE** » Fri Mar 14, 2014 4:02 pm

Curveboy wrote:
PUNCHLINE wrote: The only member of Metallica back then who was a big Kiss fan was Kirk, and he as much to influence Metallica`s sound as you or I had, lol. The first album was written before he joined, and he didnt even play rhythm guitar on a studio album of theirs until Load.
Lars has spoken at length about his love of KISS

Lars would speak at length about dog shit if a microphone was in front of him lol.

Hi I'm Witz · Post by **Hi I'm Witz** » Fri Mar 14, 2014 4:06 pm

Floomashoo wrote:
Hi I'm Witz wrote:
kissjrj wrote:Paul and Gene shouldn't even show up at this crappy ceremony; if they do they should call them out and say "no thank you" and walk away from the podium.
Will never happen!! I don't care how much Paul and Gene try and downplay the HOF, they WANT the validation! It means too much to their egos!
They should go to the HOF to accept the award. Say thank you to the fans for their patience and tell the HOF to go FUCK themselves. See if the HOF throws them out for being too rock & roll.

Dave Marsh is proof of how unhinged these peoples opinions are if he believes the likes of WASP & Twisted Sister deserve induction rather than KISS. I like WASP (not so much TS) but there is no way any unbiased person with any musically knowledge would put these in before KISS, both bands are so KISS-like in their approach to their music and performance, only KISS were doing it a decade earlier far more successfully.

Exactly! Not only that, Blackie Lawless of Wasp and Dee Snider of TS would both tell Dave Marsh he's out of his fucking mind if he thinks KISS doesn't belong!

Ace Fury · Post by **Ace Fury** » Fri Mar 14, 2014 4:14 pm

PUNCHLINE wrote:
Curveboy wrote:
PUNCHLINE wrote: The only member of Metallica back then who was a big Kiss fan was Kirk, and he as much to influence Metallica`s sound as you or I had, lol. The first album was written before he joined, and he didnt even play rhythm guitar on a studio album of theirs until Load.
Lars has spoken at length about his love of KISS
Lars would speak at length about dog shit if a microphone was in front of him lol.

and he'd chew gum and suck on a cough drop all at the same time

"slurpppp slurrp"

I love Lars but holy crap between him and Gene with shit in their mouth all the time...I don't know who slurps more when they talk

Post by **Admin** » Fri Mar 14, 2014 4:24 pm

Ginski wrote:Now if they induct Pat Smear, I will have a problem since he didn't appear on any of their studio albums.

Yeah, but HE was in the Germs! And he's badass. <= trumps Robert "Crab" Trujillo and his Suicidal Tendencies/IG cred.

gene therapist · Post by **gene therapist** » Fri Mar 14, 2014 4:40 pm

RRWHO? The elitist club that was supposed to mean nothing?

mikeenc · Post by **mikeenc** » Fri Mar 14, 2014 9:46 pm

As for who gets in for any band, I think it should be up to those inducted...if an inductee asks for a member of their band to be included, the request should be honored, period. I really wish KISS wouldn't show up at all to this thing...it's obvious they are only getting in to stop people from asking why they aren't in yet...FUCK the hall of fame.

KISS70 · Post by **KISS70** » Fri Mar 14, 2014 9:52 pm

mikeenc wrote:As for who gets in for any band, I think it should be up to those inducted...if an inductee asks for a member of their band to be included, the request should be honored, period. I really wish KISS wouldn't show up at all to this thing...it's obvious they are only getting in to stop people from asking why they aren't in yet...FUCK the hall of fame.

Can't really do that. Artists play politics too.

VH could have not inducted Michael Anthony

GNR could have inducted the current lineup and left out Slash and others.

Would be more chaos if artists had full control.

Ace Fury · Post by **Ace Fury** » Fri Mar 14, 2014 9:57 pm

let me just throw this out there.

if all these bands pushed and got their way.

are you 100% sure Gene and Paul are pushing that hard to get "everyone" in...or have even pushed at all?

is it possible they are fluffing their feathers in the media...but the fact is...the real negotiations have never progressed or maybe even been pushed for behind closed doors.
Gene and Paul are getting in...maybe they are happy with that and don't want to dilute their legacy with more than just Peter and Ace/ They know they are attached for life to those two
no matter what in many fans eyes.

Big egos...and their legacy. Maybe they don't want to share with more people.

once they are gone...do they want a laundry list left behind...or do they want the lions share of the credit?

think about it./

just wondering if that is a possibility.

Shandi Man · Post by **Shandi Man** » Fri Mar 14, 2014 10:02 pm

If Gene and Paul had accepted to play with Ace and Peter for a few songs their twitter accounts would have been silent, nobody would have bombarded them with insults and vulgarities to play with Eric and Tommy instead.

Joseph Kiss Jr. · Post by **Joseph Kiss Jr.** » Fri Mar 14, 2014 10:20 pm

never heard of Channing; am only a casual fan of that band.

The Hall make up the rules as they go along

PelagicJoe · Post by **PelagicJoe** » Fri Mar 14, 2014 10:54 pm

Curveboy wrote:
Fartbone wrote:Bleach is better than anything Eric Carr ever played on with Kiss.
Insane...and wrong.

Agreed.

PelagicJoe · Post by **PelagicJoe** » Fri Mar 14, 2014 11:30 pm

Curveboy wrote:
Fartbone wrote:
Curveboy wrote:
Fartbone wrote: HOW IN THE MOTHERFUCK CAN ANY OF YOU GUYS LIKE THIS LOOK AND STYLE? THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU?!
No one cares about the look...it's about the music.
gross
Sorry, I find nothing "gross" about KISS, WASP, 'Crue, Whitesnake, Dokken, Ratt, etc...all bands that get lumped into "hair metal"

Who the fuck cares what they looked like? I mean, Keith Richards may as well be Gollum, but does that negate the music he's helped create?

Precisely.

DressedToKiss · Post by **DressedToKiss** » Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:22 am

#1kissfan wrote:
khan_tusion wrote:Well that means they are inducting the original line-up. Surely the Kiss style controversy is that Dave Grohl, a "replacement", is also being inducted.
Grohl is an imposter!

He's wearing Chad's clothes and lipstick!! :mrgreen:

birddogger · Post by **birddogger** » Sat Mar 15, 2014 8:50 am

Some random thoughts on this dicussion so far:

1. RJD (and Vinny Appice, for that matter) definitely should've been inducted with Sabbath, but his snub wasn't the result of Sharon Osbourne, in my opinion. It's because Wendy Dio doesn't have as much pull as Irving Azoff, who managed to get Hagar inducted with Van Halen despite initial indications that only the original four would go in.

2. The fact that the artists have say in who gets in is bull, but sometimes understandable. The Stones flat out refused the induction unless their keyboard played Ian Stewart was listed as a member, even though he never WAS an official member according to any album credits or bios. But he was the man who started the band, along with Brian Jones, and was an integral part of their organization, playing keyboards on their tours and serving as their road manager, so they lobbied for his inclusion and got it. I for one think he deserves it.

3. Mark Evans should be in there with AC/DC even if the band didn't agree with it. He played on some of their most classic songs. The Hall should've told Angus & Malcom to eff off and put him in anyway.

4. Navarro...I'm kind of torn on whether he should be in there or not. He played on one album, and it was kind of a dud considering it came right after "Blood Sugar Sex Majik". If we let him in, does that mean Jimmy Crespo and Minka Kelly's dad should be in there with Aerosmith? Not hardly.

4. Klinghoffer and Trujillio should most certainly not be in there. Even if "Death Magnetic" was a return to form for Metallica, Trujillio was not significant enough in the first 25 years of Metallica to merit inclusion. And Klinghoffer...please. As someone already pointed out here, I bet few people on the voting committee can even name who he is. I think the rules should be changed to say that no one can be in the HOF if they were in elementary school at the start of the 25-year-eligibility period.

5. When they snubbed John Rutsey last year, I was fine with it. Rutsey did not make Rush what they became after that with Neil Peart. But then same with Chad Channing re: Nirvana, and now I'm pissed that Rutsey isn't in there. Several rock radio stations were playing "Working Man" in '74, how many were playing "About A Girl" in '89? For that matter...Nirvana is being inducted this year on the basis of their first single they released in 1988. Quick, can anyone on the voting committee name it?

6. One time when the Hall snubbed a band and you clearly would've thought they'd go the other way...the Pretenders. Only the original four members got in. That lineup played on their first two albums, and the second album actually got pretty lukewarm reviews for being too much of a copy of the debut. Band members for their highly-regarded third album "Learning To Crawl", Robbie McIntosh and Malcom Foster, weren't inducted. This is the record that included criticially acclaimed and commercially successful singles like "Middle Of The Road" and "Back On The Chain Gang". A band that is the definition of "critics' darling" and you'd think the Hall would've bent over backwards to get as many members in as possible. They didn't.

7. The most undeserving member of the Hall of Fame, and I didn't even realize it until Paul Stanley's rant a couple weeks ago...Vince Welnick. He was the Grateful Dead's final keyboardist, joined in 1991 when the previous keyboard player o.d.'ed, and two years AFTER THEIR FINAL STUDIO ALBUM. Again...Vince Welnick never played on a Grateful Dead studio album, and surprisingly....he played on very few of their 147 or so live albums. Certainly not many in the three years between his joining the band and his INDUCTION INTO THE ROCK AND ROLL HALL OF FAME. So that shoots down any "never played on an album" criteria for refusing induction to people like Mustaine, McGovney, or even Pete Best, for chrissakes.

8. My opinion...Kiss is being inducted into the Rock N' Roll Hall Of Fame on the strength of their 70's career...and primarily on the fact that they reinvented the rock and roll concert experience. It is for that reason that they should've been in there 15 years ago, and the reason they haven't been inducted til now...comes down to their music, which most credible rock historians will always write off as being way too simple and lunkheaded to be considered for serious merit. Once the makeup and the costumes were taken off and they entered the 80's, they suddenly looked and sounded like every other band from that decade, which of course was in no small part due to their influence on them. And thus that era of the band doesn't deserve induction any more than Warrant or Firehouse. I would jump for joy if they DID induct Eric Carr and Bruce Kulick...I just don't think they deserve it. And please, this whole notion about Singer and Thayer getting in there...let's go ahead and induct the members of Beatlemania! then if that's how lax we're getting on this.

I love 80's Kiss. I love "Lick It Up", "Heaven's On Fire", "Tears Are Falling", "Crazy Crazy Nights", all of that. But you'd be hard pressed to convince me that this material and this era of the band is Hall of Fame caliber, and thus it's hard for me to justify including either Eric Carr or Bruce Kulick as members of the Hall of Fame.

But then that means I also want Channing, Klinghoffer, Trujillio, and especially WELNICK to have their memberships revoked as well.

KISS70 · Post by **KISS70** » Sat Mar 15, 2014 9:29 am

birddogger wrote:Some random thoughts on this dicussion so far:

1. RJD (and Vinny Appice, for that matter) definitely should've been inducted with Sabbath, but his snub wasn't the result of Sharon Osbourne, in my opinion. It's because Wendy Dio doesn't have as much pull as Irving Azoff, who managed to get Hagar inducted with Van Halen despite initial indications that only the original four would go in.

2. The fact that the artists have say in who gets in is bull, but sometimes understandable. The Stones flat out refused the induction unless their keyboard played Ian Stewart was listed as a member, even though he never WAS an official member according to any album credits or bios. But he was the man who started the band, along with Brian Jones, and was an integral part of their organization, playing keyboards on their tours and serving as their road manager, so they lobbied for his inclusion and got it. I for one think he deserves it.

3. Mark Evans should be in there with AC/DC even if the band didn't agree with it. He played on some of their most classic songs. The Hall should've told Angus & Malcom to eff off and put him in anyway.

4. Navarro...I'm kind of torn on whether he should be in there or not. He played on one album, and it was kind of a dud considering it came right after "Blood Sugar Sex Majik". If we let him in, does that mean Jimmy Crespo and Minka Kelly's dad should be in there with Aerosmith? Not hardly.

4. Klinghoffer and Trujillio should most certainly not be in there. Even if "Death Magnetic" was a return to form for Metallica, Trujillio was not significant enough in the first 25 years of Metallica to merit inclusion. And Klinghoffer...please. As someone already pointed out here, I bet few people on the voting committee can even name who he is. I think the rules should be changed to say that no one can be in the HOF if they were in elementary school at the start of the 25-year-eligibility period.

5. When they snubbed John Rutsey last year, I was fine with it. Rutsey did not make Rush what they became after that with Neil Peart. But then same with Chad Channing re: Nirvana, and now I'm pissed that Rutsey isn't in there. Several rock radio stations were playing "Working Man" in '74, how many were playing "About A Girl" in '89? For that matter...Nirvana is being inducted this year on the basis of their first single they released in 1988. Quick, can anyone on the voting committee name it?

6. One time when the Hall snubbed a band and you clearly would've thought they'd go the other way...the Pretenders. Only the original four members got in. That lineup played on their first two albums, and the second album actually got pretty lukewarm reviews for being too much of a copy of the debut. Band members for their highly-regarded third album "Learning To Crawl", Robbie McIntosh and Malcom Foster, weren't inducted. This is the record that included criticially acclaimed and commercially successful singles like "Middle Of The Road" and "Back On The Chain Gang". A band that is the definition of "critics' darling" and you'd think the Hall would've bent over backwards to get as many members in as possible. They didn't.

7. The most undeserving member of the Hall of Fame, and I didn't even realize it until Paul Stanley's rant a couple weeks ago...Vince Welnick. He was the Grateful Dead's final keyboardist, joined in 1991 when the previous keyboard player o.d.'ed, and two years AFTER THEIR FINAL STUDIO ALBUM. Again...Vince Welnick never played on a Grateful Dead studio album, and surprisingly....he played on very few of their 147 or so live albums. Certainly not many in the three years between his joining the band and his INDUCTION INTO THE ROCK AND ROLL HALL OF FAME. So that shoots down any "never played on an album" criteria for refusing induction to people like Mustaine, McGovney, or even Pete Best, for chrissakes.

8. My opinion...Kiss is being inducted into the Rock N' Roll Hall Of Fame on the strength of their 70's career...and primarily on the fact that they reinvented the rock and roll concert experience. It is for that reason that they should've been in there 15 years ago, and the reason they haven't been inducted til now...comes down to their music, which most credible rock historians will always write off as being way too simple and lunkheaded to be considered for serious merit. Once the makeup and the costumes were taken off and they entered the 80's, they suddenly looked and sounded like every other band from that decade, which of course was in no small part due to their influence on them. And thus that era of the band doesn't deserve induction any more than Warrant or Firehouse. I would jump for joy if they DID induct Eric Carr and Bruce Kulick...I just don't think they deserve it. And please, this whole notion about Singer and Thayer getting in there...let's go ahead and induct the members of Beatlemania! then if that's how lax we're getting on this.

I love 80's Kiss. I love "Lick It Up", "Heaven's On Fire", "Tears Are Falling", "Crazy Crazy Nights", all of that. But you'd be hard pressed to convince me that this material and this era of the band is Hall of Fame caliber, and thus it's hard for me to justify including either Eric Carr or Bruce Kulick as members of the Hall of Fame.

But then that means I also want Channing, Klinghoffer, Trujillio, and especially WELNICK to have their memberships revoked as well.

Very thoughtful post.

Destroyer72 · Post by **Destroyer72** » Sat Mar 15, 2014 9:29 am

What's the issue here?

None of those zeros, ie. Kulick, Carr, Thayer, Singer- deserve to be inducted or any where near that stage.

I have to laugh: If the HoF capitulates and allows all the extra members then they're a fine and honorable organization- worthy of the honor. But since they're only inducting the original lineup- then it's 'fuck the Hall of Fame!' , they're a farce, a sham and so on.

Not every line up and era of a band is worthy of being included. It's been done before- with Black Sabbath for instance. Just because some dim wits on a KISS forum think that the bulk of that 1980s KISS dreck is Hall of Fame worthy doesn't make it so. I'm with the Hall of Fame 100% on this one. I'd say that Gene & Paul know all this too- they know that 80s crap is completely unworthy of any sort of recognition- the real issue is they do not want to be equalized and put on the same level as Ace & Peter for KISS' status and success.

They want to show the world that KISS is a viable and commercially successful band without Ace & Peter and with Gene and Paul. Bruce, Thayer and Singer also know that this is their one shot at glory for peer and public recognition- they'd be officially recognized as 'Hall of Fame' members-

Well... it's not happening. Crawl back into the shadows of obscurity- Kulick, Thayer and Singer- where you belong.

gshaller · Post by **gshaller** » Sat Mar 15, 2014 9:45 am

Destroyer72 wrote:What's the issue here?

None of those zeros, ie. Kulick, Carr, Thayer, Singer- deserve to be inducted or any where near that stage.

Well... it's not happening. Crawl back into the shadows of obscurity- Kulick, Thayer and Singer- where you belong.

This just in: Nobody outside of hard rock nerds like us knows (or gives a shit about) who was in Sabbath, either.

MAYBE they know Tony. MAYBE.
To the general public, it's Ozzy and some other dudes.

Your argument is moot. Plenty of bands whose members are virtually nameless and faceless were inducted, including their nameless and faceless members.

gshaller · Post by **gshaller** » Sat Mar 15, 2014 9:46 am

Destroyer72 wrote:They want to show the world that KISS is a viable and commercially successful band without Ace & Peter and with Gene and Paul.

The world already knows that, and/or doesn't give a shit.

Destroyer72 · Post by **Destroyer72** » Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:02 am

gshaller wrote:
Destroyer72 wrote:What's the issue here?

None of those zeros, ie. Kulick, Carr, Thayer, Singer- deserve to be inducted or any where near that stage.

Well... it's not happening. Crawl back into the shadows of obscurity- Kulick, Thayer and Singer- where you belong.
This just in: Nobody outside of hard rock nerds like us knows (or gives a shit about) who was in Sabbath, either.

MAYBE they know Tony. MAYBE.
To the general public, it's Ozzy and some other dudes.

Your argument is moot. Plenty of bands whose members are virtually nameless and faceless were inducted, including their nameless and faceless members.

I realize that- I've always known that. Ozzy Osbourne is a world wide celebrity. When people hear Black Sabbath they think Ozzy. I've encountered that myself many times- I say I'm a Sabbath fan and most people's response is something Ozzy related.

Oh well, it is what it is.

What you fail to realize is that no one but people who are interested in popular music care about the Hall of Fame either. Other than the Grammys, the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame is the premier public recognition platform for musical artists of our age.

In 200 years, when people want to look back and see who and what was popular- they'll look at the members of the Hall of Fame - to get a picture of who and what made it- in the 20th and 21st century. In that respect, the names Gene Simmons, Paul Stanley, Ace Frehley & Peter Criss will be made immortal.

See, you have to look at the big picture, Gary the Snail.

steve · Post by **steve** » Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:07 am

Destroyer72 wrote:Crawl back into the shadows of obscurity- Kulick, Thayer and Singer- where you belong.

Whether you accept it or not, those three members, and more, were and are part of KISS and contributed more than their fair share without the blind worship afforded Ace and Peter.

I've said nothing about this Hall of Fame nonsense because it doesn't concern me in the least. The fact they would induct KISS (who I like) and Nirvana (who I despise) ahead of Deep Purple shows they don't have a fucking clue.

sicksickphil · Post by **sicksickphil** » Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:07 am

More people know all the people on those "Now That is What I Call Music" cds than Ozzy. YOU have to look at the big picture.

Destroyer72 · Post by **Destroyer72** » Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:15 am

sicksickphil wrote:More people know all the people on those "Now That is What I Call Music" cds than Ozzy. YOU have to look at the big picture.

Really? You don't say.

We could split hairs all day long with this sort of thing. One thing remains, in the world of hard rock, which is what we're concerned about- Ozzy Osbourne is a household name.

Crown Royal · Post by **Crown Royal** » Sat Mar 15, 2014 11:04 am

Destroyer72 wrote:
sicksickphil wrote:More people know all the people on those "Now That is What I Call Music" cds than Ozzy. YOU have to look at the big picture.

Really? You don't say.

We could split hairs all day long with this sort of thing. One thing remains, in the world of hard rock, which is what we're concerned about- Ozzy Osbourne is a household name.

Because he's a burnt-out, drug-riddled fool who people laugh at.

Congratulations.

LoveGun77 · Post by **LoveGun77** » Sat Mar 15, 2014 1:40 pm

Fartbone wrote:Bleach is better than anything Eric Carr ever played on with Kiss.

Opinion,not fact. Not for me it wasn't. I think Nirvana is the most overrated act in music history. Can't stand them. So for me,anything Carr played on,I enjoyed more.

frehley freak · Post by **frehley freak** » Sat Mar 15, 2014 1:45 pm

Chad Channing had the same significance as Eric Carr in Nirvana. Its fair for him to be there... keep in mind that Nirvana had something like 5 drummers in all of its year's.

Shandi Man · Post by **Shandi Man** » Sat Mar 15, 2014 1:55 pm

Destroyer72 wrote:What's the issue here?

None of those zeros, ie. Kulick, Carr, Thayer, Singer- deserve to be inducted or any where near that stage.

I have to laugh: If the HoF capitulates and allows all the extra members then they're a fine and honorable organization- worthy of the honor. But since they're only inducting the original lineup- then it's 'fuck the Hall of Fame!' , they're a farce, a sham and so on.

Not every line up and era of a band is worthy of being included. It's been done before- with Black Sabbath for instance. Just because some dim wits on a KISS forum think that the bulk of that 1980s KISS dreck is Hall of Fame worthy doesn't make it so. I'm with the Hall of Fame 100% on this one. I'd say that Gene & Paul know all this too- they know that 80s crap is completely unworthy of any sort of recognition- the real issue is they do not want to be equalized and put on the same level as Ace & Peter for KISS' status and success.

They want to show the world that KISS is a viable and commercially successful band without Ace & Peter and with Gene and Paul. Bruce, Thayer and Singer also know that this is their one shot at glory for peer and public recognition- they'd be officially recognized as 'Hall of Fame' members-

Well... it's not happening. Crawl back into the shadows of obscurity- Kulick, Thayer and Singer- where you belong.

This is a bitter pill for 80s Kiss fans and supporters of the current line-up to swallow but that's the general feeling about Kiss. And I agree with your comment regarding Gene and Paul, they want everyone inducted as that makes them the most significant members of Kiss and further marginalises Ace and Peter. Of all the replacement members I do feel that Eric Carr should be included as he played on the legendary Australian tour and the massive South American shows. But if they do this then they "open a can of worms" with adding other replacement members.

fractured1 · Post by **fractured1** » Sat Mar 15, 2014 2:17 pm

jayjtee · Post by **jayjtee** » Sat Mar 15, 2014 7:59 pm

Fartbone wrote:Bleach is better than anything Eric Carr ever played on with Kiss.

I like Bleach, but COTN wipes the floor with it imo

kinetic74 · Post by **kinetic74** » Sat Mar 15, 2014 9:28 pm

Curveboy wrote:
PUNCHLINE wrote: Irrelevent. Kirk Hammet was a big Kiss fan too, how many Metallica albums are influenced by Kiss? lol.

Besides, Bernard Edwards produced the debut Power Station album, not Andy Taylor. The drum sounds were well in vogue by the early 80s, the Creatures drum sounds were following what was fashionable at that time, big heavy, reverb drenched drums, albeit with a Levee Breaks vibe to it. They certainly werent groundbreaking or influential.

https://www.moderndrummer.com/site/2005 ... yMhHj9_vAk
MD: Let’s talk about that big drum sound you created in the 80′s.

Tony: All these years, people wanted to sample me. Everyone always assumed that there was some kind of special knobs turned when we did that first Power Station record.

And right there is the bullshit...Tony didn't create the big 80's drum sound...Eric Carr did years before Powerstation.

As for Metallica; I'd say every Metallica album is influenced by KISS. Without KISS, there is no Metallica. Especially Hotter Than Hell.

I think you'll find Sabbath and the NWOBHM influenced Metallica far more than KISS. Yes, they probably had passing interests in the band during the prime. But not the sound that truly influenced them. Metallica really was a sped up classic Sabbath going on the KILL 'EM ALL album. Riff-arama!