Help  •  Register  •  Login

Neil Young VS Gene Simmons Vault Discussion

<<

tomwabe

User avatar

Banned
Banned

Posts: 1685

Joined: Tue Jun 04, 2013 3:58 pm

Post Fri Nov 17, 2017 10:09 am

Re: Neil Young VS Gene Simmons Vault Discussion

scottbassist wrote:
redinthesky wrote:
aceshigh wrote:
redinthesky wrote:I don't think Young is really offering anything but his typical albums though. His quote at the end of the article, "The NYA (Neil Young Archive) is a living document. All released albums and songs are available for you to enjoy."
That really doesn't say anything about rare songs, demos, unreleased stuff etc.


What difference does it make? The point is he is putting out new music and giving back to his fans.


The difference is that Gene's Vault is all rare, unreleased stuff. What Neil Young has done was simply put all his released material (his released albums and singles) on his own particular platform. And Neil isn't exactly always great to the fans - for instance, for a while he yanked all his music off most streaming services because he made a deal with Jay Z's Tidal. Since then though he backtracked and his music is back on them (like Spotify, which I use).


I like Neil Young quite a bit and I think Bruce Springsteen is OK (he's overrated but decent), but it's so funny that two artists who are always viewed as "for the common people always" are notoriously fierce for denying media photographers and media reviewers at their concerts. Yet Kiss is quite generous with the media photo passes for their gigs. I guess one could say that Kiss are much more generous to a certain part of the public (media photographers/reviewers) than Neil and Bruce. This also reminds me of fans of REM (I also like early REM) who claim REM never wanted a record deal and spent their early years making music sitting on a porch. Those fans claim REM were kidnapped and held at gunpoint to sign a record deal and REM hated every second of having MTV hit videos and playing for large audiences. These fans would say "REM are real. They are for us. They aren't pretentious rock stars like so and so. They don't enjoy or benefit from any part of fame." Yet REM were getting almost $1 million a gig, and that price was for shows years ago. The whole "This Artist is Greedy and That Other Artist is Really for Us Little People" argument doesn't hold water. Lol! :D


And those REM and Springsteen anthologies are $2000 a throw right?

Right?

But if KISS allow more availability to press photographers at their shows, well I guess I can excuse their f*cking mental pricing and stupid Heath Robinson distribution schemes.
<<

sicksickphil

Spends too much time FAQ'ing off!
Spends too much time FAQ'ing off!

Posts: 3208

Joined: Sun Nov 16, 2008 2:57 am

Post Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:58 pm

Re: Neil Young VS Gene Simmons Vault Discussion

battra wrote:
drummernowlin wrote:
battra wrote:
destroyerrnro wrote:
Queen is charging $120 for their News Of The World deluxe which has like 10 unreleased songs.


Queen's News of the World is $93 on Amazon, that's nearly 25% lower than your price and has four bonus discs.

https://www.amazon.fr/News-World-Coffret-DVD-3CD/dp/B0758ZN38H/?tag=sdepcwfr-21

Disc: 1
1. Vinyl LP: The Original News of the World Album - New Pure Analogue Cut. - We Will Rock You (May) 2:01
2. We Are the Champions (Mercury) 2:59
3. Sheer Heart Attack (Taylor) 3:26
4. All Dead, All Dead (May) 3:10
5. Spread Your Wings (Deacon) 4:34
6. Fight from the Inside (Taylor) 3:03

Disc: 2
1. Get Down, Make Love (Mercury) 3:51
2. Sleeping on the Sidewalk (May) 3:06
3. Who Needs You (Deacon) 3:05
4. It's Late (May) 6.26
5. My Melancholy Blues (Mercury) 3:29

Disc: 3
1. CD 1: The Original Album (Bob Ludwig 2011 Master) - We Will Rock You (May) 2:01
2. We Are the Champions (Mercury) 2:59
3. Sheer Heart Attack (Taylor) 3:26
4. All Dead, All Dead (May) 3:10
5. Spread Your Wings (Deacon) 4:34
6. Fight from the Inside (Taylor) 3:03
7. Get Down, Make Love (Mercury) 3:51
8. Sleeping on the Sidewalk (May) 3:06
9. Who Needs You (Deacon) 3:05
10. It's Late (May) 6.26
11. My Melancholy Blues (Mercury) 3:29

Disc: 4
1. CD2: News of the World : Raw Sessions - We Will Rock You (Alternative Version) 2:29
2. We Are the Champions (Alternative Version) 4:33
3. Sheer Heart Attack (Original Rough Mix) 4:17
4. All Dead, All Dead (Original Rough Mix) 3:08
5. Spread Your Wings (Alternative Take) 4:56
6. Fight from the Inside (Demo Vocal Version) 3:08
7. Get Down, Make Love (Early Take) 4:02
8. Sleeping on the Sidewalk (Live in the USA, 1977) 3:49
9. Who Needs You (Acoustic Take) 2:46
10. It's Late (Alternative Version) 6:44
11. My Melancholy Blues (Original Rough Mix) 3:36
12. CD3: News of the World : Bonus Tracks - Feeling Feelings (Take 10, July 1977) 1:55
13. We Will Rock You (BBC Session) 1:36
14. We Will Rock You (Fast) (BBC Session) 2:52
15. Spread Your Wings (BBC Session) 5:33
16. It's Late (BBC Session) 6:39
17. My Melancholy Blues (BBC Session) 3:13
18. We Will Rock You (Backing Track) 2:03
19. We Are the Champions (Backing Track) 2:59
20. Spread Your Wings (Instrumental) 4:23
21. Fight from the Inside (Instrumental) 3:02
22. Get Down, Make Love (Instrumental) 3:49
23. It's Late (Usa Radio Edit 1978) 3:52
24. Sheer Heart Attack (Live in Paris 1979) 3:35
25. We Will Rock You (Live in Tokyo 1982) 2:55
26. My Melancholy Blues (Live in Houston 1977) 3:48
27. Get Down, Make Love (Live in Montreal 1981) 4:35
28. Spread Your Wings (Live in Europe 1979) 5:20
29. We Will Rock You (Live at the MK Bowl 1982) 2:08
30. We Are the Champions (Live at the MK Bowl 1982) 3:32

Disc: 5
1. DVD: Queen : The American Dream (One Hour)

Slightly more than 10 rarities.

I'm not going to check your second.


Disc 4 has THREE versions of We Are The Champions. I don't think anyone here wants to hear THREE MORE versions of Rock and Roll All Nite. And to destroyerrnro's point, QUEEN is charging $120, while Amazon discounts nearly EVERYTHING they have in stock.

Simply put, we are entitled to nothing. Gene worked his whole life to document the songs he is offering for $2,000. Studio time isn't free. Nor is the artwork, packaging, shipping, etc... If you don't have the cash, no worries. You just won't get it, like me. No need to bash. Free market. Neil Young can do as he pleases as well. If an artist or band puts out a product I want and that I can afford, I'll get it. Until then, we should save our pennies and our breath.


Ahhh....

The entitlement fallacy.

1. I don't think for a second that I'm entitled to it.

2. I don't want it. If you look through my entire music library from my CDs to my LPs to my 7"'s to my MP3 files in iTunes...you'll find precisely ONE CD of wholly demos... (Unless we're including the Led Zeppelin reissues, then there are a handful of complimentary discs...and aside from the Self Titled's bonus disc, none of them are ripped into iTunes and when I noticed I could get slightly cheaper versions w/o the discs, I went with those.) On CDs that do include Demos as bonuses, they never get ripped....

Why? Because I don't enjoy them.

3. My family's finances don't enter into it.

4. There's nothing anyone has been able to say to justify having to pay $2,000 for this set without resorting to fallacy.

5. Free market, free market, yes, there is a semi-free market in this country, but there's also free speech. :)

6. As for other artists releasing giant boxed sets of single albums (that for the most part I have no interest in), you don't have a $2,000 outlay to get them all at one time. When Metallica's done with their (SPECTACULAR) deluxe remastered box sets (also releasing the albums in standalone fashion)...it may cost $2,000 to get the entire set, but one doesn't have to pay $2,000 to hear Jason Newsted's audition...that'll be part of the Puppets release.

7. There's a lot of people who're parroting the same fallacies: entitlement, free market, etc. None of those people have been able to say the Box Set is worth $2,000 because....

Can you be the first?


The meet and greet and the box set are worth $2000 because Rhino and Gene said it is worth it.

"one doesn't have to pay $2,000 to hear Jason Newsted's audition.." "entitled" Gene box set is being sold the way it is being sold. Because other people may do things different doesn't matter. When you say you should be able to buy stuff al la carte then you are being entitled.

"Why? Because I don't enjoy them" if you don't care stop complaining about how much and how demos are sold
"
"there's also free speech" yes there is free speech and remember that when you do something someone else doesn't like.
<<

LordThurisaz

User avatar

Might as well be the Admin!
Might as well be the Admin!

Posts: 13950

Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2007 3:37 pm

Location: Leader of the Misery Brigade

Post Fri Nov 17, 2017 2:54 pm

Re: Neil Young VS Gene Simmons Vault Discussion

sicksickphil wrote:The meet and greet and the box set are worth $2000 because Rhino and Gene said it is worth it.

"one doesn't have to pay $2,000 to hear Jason Newsted's audition.." "entitled" Gene box set is being sold the way it is being sold. Because other people may do things different doesn't matter. When you say you should be able to buy stuff al la carte then you are being entitled.

"Why? Because I don't enjoy them" if you don't care stop complaining about how much and how demos are sold
"
"there's also free speech" yes there is free speech and remember that when you do something someone else doesn't like.

Buying stuff a la carte is how stuff is done these days, not entitled. No one is saying, "I should be able to get the box set, the vault, the knick knacks, and the experience for less than 1k." That would be entitled. Buying stuff a la carte, ie, the stuff you want without having to deal with the stuff you don't want, is not entitled. If I don't want the physical product, I can go on Amazon or iTunes and pick specific songs I want for just about anything, while ignoring the rest. In fact, iTunes will show you how "popular" a particular song is or isn't on albums, which lends credence to the fact that people pick and choose some songs and leave it at that.

But hey, I'm entitled, I guess, because I:
>Only have interest in the 3 VH demos
>Only want to pay for those three VH demos
>Shouldn't have to pay $2k for three songs.

When Battra said it was $13.33 per song, he was correct... if you want every song. I do not, so for me, it's actually ~$666.50 per song. The coin, the scarf, the doll, the fucking socks, the coffee table book, most of the rest of the Vault, I do not have an interest in. What would be nice is if I could just go on iTunes, give them a buck fifty per track, and be done with it.

But, like I said: I'm entitled.
<<

sicksickphil

Spends too much time FAQ'ing off!
Spends too much time FAQ'ing off!

Posts: 3208

Joined: Sun Nov 16, 2008 2:57 am

Post Fri Nov 17, 2017 4:19 pm

Re: Neil Young VS Gene Simmons Vault Discussion

LordThurisaz wrote:
sicksickphil wrote:The meet and greet and the box set are worth $2000 because Rhino and Gene said it is worth it.

"one doesn't have to pay $2,000 to hear Jason Newsted's audition.." "entitled" Gene box set is being sold the way it is being sold. Because other people may do things different doesn't matter. When you say you should be able to buy stuff al la carte then you are being entitled.

"Why? Because I don't enjoy them" if you don't care stop complaining about how much and how demos are sold
"
"there's also free speech" yes there is free speech and remember that when you do something someone else doesn't like.

Buying stuff a la carte is how stuff is done these days, not entitled. No one is saying, "I should be able to get the box set, the vault, the knick knacks, and the experience for less than 1k." That would be entitled. Buying stuff a la carte, ie, the stuff you want without having to deal with the stuff you don't want, is not entitled. If I don't want the physical product, I can go on Amazon or iTunes and pick specific songs I want for just about anything, while ignoring the rest. In fact, iTunes will show you how "popular" a particular song is or isn't on albums, which lends credence to the fact that people pick and choose some songs and leave it at that.

But hey, I'm entitled, I guess, because I:
>Only have interest in the 3 VH demos
>Only want to pay for those three VH demos
>Shouldn't have to pay $2k for three songs.

When Battra said it was $13.33 per song, he was correct... if you want every song. I do not, so for me, it's actually ~$666.50 per song. The coin, the scarf, the doll, the fucking socks, the coffee table book, most of the rest of the Vault, I do not have an interest in. What would be nice is if I could just go on iTunes, give them a buck fifty per track, and be done with it.

But, like I said: I'm entitled.


">Shouldn't have to pay $2k for three songs"

You don't have to buy anything. But if you want to get those demos as of now you have to buy a 2k meet and greet. I wanted the original edits of the star wars movies on DVD and I had to buy the SE editions again. That is how they were sold.

YOU ARE ENTITLED because you say it is wrong for Gene to sell his property how he wants to BECAUSE YOU DON'T LIKE IT.
<<

sicksickphil

Spends too much time FAQ'ing off!
Spends too much time FAQ'ing off!

Posts: 3208

Joined: Sun Nov 16, 2008 2:57 am

Post Fri Nov 17, 2017 4:32 pm

Re: Neil Young VS Gene Simmons Vault Discussion

"What would be nice is if I could just go on iTunes, give them a buck fifty per track, and be done with it"

It would be nice to get a steak dinner for .50. It would be nice to get a house on the beach for $100. It would be nice to get an iPad for $2. Are you complaining that you are not getting that stuff for those prices ?
<<

LordThurisaz

User avatar

Might as well be the Admin!
Might as well be the Admin!

Posts: 13950

Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2007 3:37 pm

Location: Leader of the Misery Brigade

Post Fri Nov 17, 2017 4:45 pm

Re: Neil Young VS Gene Simmons Vault Discussion

sicksickphil wrote:"What would be nice is if I could just go on iTunes, give them a buck fifty per track, and be done with it"

It would be nice to get a steak dinner for .50. It would be nice to get a house on the beach for $100. It would be nice to get an iPad for $2. Are you complaining that you are not getting that stuff for those prices ?

Are digital tracks the same as a steak dinner, a beach house, or an iPad?
<<

69th_B1izard

User avatar

Stockholder in KISS Corp.
Stockholder in KISS Corp.

Posts: 1031

Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2012 9:43 pm

Post Fri Nov 17, 2017 4:53 pm

Re: Neil Young VS Gene Simmons Vault Discussion

You will be able to stream Neil’s music. You can go on YouTube for free and listen to his music there if you want already. Gene’s music that is in the vault is not on YouTube; therefore people will have to purchase the vault or.....
hope someone uploads it there which I don’t think Gene or his lawyers will tolerate.
<<

firekiss

Ready to sing Beth!
Ready to sing Beth!

Posts: 557

Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2015 1:50 pm

Post Sat Nov 18, 2017 2:57 am

Re: Neil Young VS Gene Simmons Vault Discussion

battra wrote:
firekiss wrote:
battra wrote:
Admin wrote:This “givone back” stuff is a lark. Your choice. You go to McDonalds daily for 40 years, you get a heart attack not a free Big Mac. Support your local sports team for decades? The cheerleaders don’t reward you with a quickie. It just doesn’t work any one particular way. You choose. They choose. Right/wrong all very subjective.


You tell me...

Is it right or wrong to charge $13.33/song?

I think that's wrong personally.


But we all know, right or wrong, that the $13.33 per song includes more than just the song.


If that's the cheapest price for the music...

(and a MnG with Geno costs $300...so it's $1700 for 150 songs.... $11.33/song...better?)


A little. But, the vault includes more than the music and a meet and greet. And yes, I know the unit price for the music will not get down to what you think is acceptable.

As an aside, if I want to buy Kiss' Dynasty album or Springsteen's Born to Run album on vinyl in Australia right now I'll have to part with near $45 for each. $5 a song. No meet and greet or any other premiums.
Previous

Return to GENERAL KISS DISCUSSION



Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by ST Software.